Latest / Cait & Court's Cozy Corner: Romance Readers / Let's Talk About: To Cage A Wild Bird with author Brooke Fast
Transcript
- Caitlin Stryker: Hi. Courtney Richter: ⁓ Brooke Fast: Huh. Caitlin Stryker: back to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. We have a special guest with us today. We are so excited. We have author Brooke Fast ⁓ to talk with us about her book, To Cage a Wild Bird. Yay! Yea! ⁓ Courtney Richter: No Brooke Fast: Yeah. Courtney Richter: this book is such a ride. Like it was. ⁓ before, Brooke's gonna give a synopsis but Brooke, like it just ⁓ you dive into it then you're just like on this. It's so intense, but so great. Brooke Fast: You know, I was so obsessed with pacing when I was writing it, so that is like the ultimate compliment. Courtney Richter: it's it's you can tell it's done very well. I love like I just I had been on like a romance kick, obviously reading a lot of romance, and I hadn't done a romantacy in a couple weeks. And I was like, okay, back into romantacy world. And then I dove in and I'm like, what? Like it didn't, it took me no time. It was just in and on, and it was so easy that way. I loved it so much. And then I was obsessed. ⁓ So why you tell us about the book for those that haven't read it. To Cage a Wild Bird Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: ⁓ my god. I'm so glad. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: Yeah, of course. So, so my elevator pitch to ⁓ per se is that the main character, Raven, is a bounty hunter. ⁓ And when her brother is arrested and sent to this prison where the rich hunt inmates for sport, she gets herself purposely arrested and sent there in order to try and break him out, even though no one's ever escaped this prison before. And in order to survive, she's forced to work with this prison guard who she hates and of course romance and friendships and ⁓ all that ensues. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And it's kind of in like a dystopian world, right? Like it's kind of how would you describe the world? Yeah. Like Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Which is like It's very dystopian. Brooke Fast: Yes. I call it when I pitch it, I called it a dystopian romance. ⁓ There it's definitely like falls into romantasy as well, but I was hugely inspired by like current political world events and definitely infuse that in there. ⁓ So yeah, it's set in a dystopian city, but most of it takes place in this prison called Endlock that I just described. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yeah, like I think it's a fine line. Like I think your book can be fantasy, but I think it's also could just be surrealism romance. Like it's right on that line when I was reading it. It kind of blends both really well. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: Yeah, I've seen it. It's interesting like going into bookstores and trying to guess where it's going to be. I've found it in so many different areas. Courtney Richter: Right? Caitlin Stryker: Really? Yeah, it was pitched to me ⁓ from one of our producers, Hollie, and she was like, ⁓ she was like, Yeah, it's like this prison romance. And she's like, I read it and I loved it, and I usually don't like prison books. And I was like, prison romance is a thing? First of all, I'm getting lost. You know what I mean? And like, there's more than one. ⁓ And then I was reading it. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: And I'm like, okay, you know, we bifurcate this this podcast as like, you know, we cover romance or romantacy, so I was like, ⁓ well, this kind of falls more in the romantacy section, but like it's not it's not a fantasy, it's a dystopian romance, is what it is, you know. But Brooke Fast: so I get the fantasy side of things too. And I definitely want to pursue romanticity in the future, so it has those vibes. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Y yeah. Courtney Richter: have that flavor. Like it's very much probably similar like Hunger Games or Divergent, that they're in that like dystopian romance. Those are teen ones, and this is very much not a teen book. ⁓ But ⁓ it has that same feel to it. Caitlin Stryker: I could see that you have that. Brooke Fast: Yeah, exactly. I do. Caitlin Stryker: Of what we've talked about lately, I would say it's like Daggermouth, you know, like it's in that which is another ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes, yes. Brooke Fast: was on like when my book first came out, I got to see it on the ⁓ mean, first of all, before I say this, I'm gonna say support small book stores. If can buy your books from small bookstores do, but ⁓ rankings are a good way to like see what's going on. And To Cage A Wild Bird was right next to Daggermouth and I was like, I've made it, I've made it because I ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yes. such good like I think too, sometimes like you said, like here's my elevator pitch sort of synopsis. ⁓ And, you know, like, which section does it fall in and where what are your comps? Because people will be like, ⁓ okay, I just finished like Daggermouth was huge. So they're like, I just finished that. It was great. Like I want something like that. It'd be like, then you want To Cage A Wild Bird. Like that's in your you know. Yeah. Yeah. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Mm. Huge compliment, so I usually Courtney Richter: It has a flavor ⁓ of the Twisted Sisters, ⁓ this jail series of after like Zodiac Academy and the Fae Boys. There's the one when they're in prison for like four books. And it has and has a guard and it has a flavor of that. Yes, it is a thing. It's very much a thing. Caitlin is still learning all the romance tropes. That's part of our thing. I'm the expert and she's been learning for the last year on the ride. No, the prison romance, very much a thing, especially in the way that Brooke set it up so fantastically that it's like the hero, she didn't actually deserve to be in prison. She put herself in there to save her brother, who also didn't deserve to be in there. And so whenever it's in that circumstance. Brooke Fast: ⁓ I hate to be here. Caitlin Stryker: So prison is a thing. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: It is. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: The romance has this room to grow that is so delicious that you just know the steep like because you know the guards can't help themselves. You know the other prisoners can't help themselves. Like it just builds this world. And you did it. I mean, your world building of Endoc, the prison. Am I saying that right? Endoc? Endlock, thank you. I hadn't looked at it in two days. I'm like my memory popped in. Endlock. Is like I felt like I was there. And Brooke, you did it so vividly. Caitlin Stryker: Right. And lock. Yeah. Brooke Fast: Endlock, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Brooke Fast: Oh my gosh, I'm sorry for that. I feel like the same thing when I was writing it, honestly, I'm very prone to anxiety and I just had to step away sometimes because it was so visceral for me. I was like in it in my head. But it was really I always say, ⁓ you know, for people that aren't familiar with the genre, it's very much like of the Hunger Games and the show Prison Break had a baby with a lot more romance in it. That's a good picture of To Cage A Wild Bird. it is, you know, I've ⁓ watched a ton of shows like. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Nice. Brooke Fast: set in prisons, read a lot of books set in prisons, not only like fiction books, but like nonfiction books based around like mass incarceration and things like that to get an idea for obviously I didn't want it to look like, you know, exactly like a real life prison because it's a horrific version of that. ⁓ but just for inspiration of like daily life and things like that to make it feel as real as possible. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it it did. I mean, it was it's definitely dark and you do feel like you are trapped in the prison, you know? And then ⁓ you know, some of the injuries that happen and just the death everywhere. Like the it's one of those books where you're like, oh, ⁓ This is a nasty ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. It's gonna cost me a little bit. It's gonna cost me well, which okay, so spoiler warning. We'll We'll probably Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Brooke Fast: I know. Courtney Richter: so much. Like I, ⁓ knew something was probably gonna happen, but ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: It hurt so bad. I knew it needed to happen. Brooke Fast: It hurt me too. If it makes you feel better, like I cried writing that 'cause I loved so ⁓ And ⁓ initially I'm trying I wrote so many drafts of this book because it was the first ⁓ book that I got past a first draft. You know, I'd written novel like books before, but I hadn't edited through them. So it was really a learning curve me too. ⁓ And in the first, I, I'm trying to think, I don't think I could kill him in the first draft. I just but then I don't know, as you get to know your story, you figure out what really needs to happen. Caitlin Stryker: I knew it needed to happen, but Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: to make other pieces move. But that was really hard because I got so I got so attached to all the characters. So yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. What was that moment for you? Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. That makes so much sense to me. And I love hearing you say that it was hard for you to kill him because I'm that way. Like I have a hard time with the conflict, you know? Or like with the big thing that needs to happen. It's like, but I did I don't want to be you know you need it, right? For the stakes of the story. But yeah. Brooke Fast: Yeah, Yeah. I think it makes it hurts you, it makes it that more emotional for readers too. And I I knew that but it was like, ⁓ I don't want to but Courtney Richter: was that moment for you? Like when did you realize like, oh, he has to die? Caitlin Stryker: Yes. And Brooke Fast: I think I don't even remember the moment it really clicked. I think it wasn't an actual decision I made. I think I was editing and sometimes you really are in, you know, sometimes it's like pulling teeth when you're writing, but sometimes you're really in that flow state. And it happened in kind of a flow state moment. And I was crying. That's like when I was crying when I wrote it. And so I knew it had to stay because it was giving me that emotional reaction. ⁓ And it was giving Raven and everyone around them those emotional reactions because Gus was so important to all of them. Courtney Richter: I had a feeling it did. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: And it was more yeah, I wanna say it was more of a gut feeling than like an a logical decision. So that's a tough one. Courtney Richter: I know, I love that. That was my guess. My guess was gonna be it just came out in one of your revisions, then you're like, ⁓ this is what it needs, like it just 'cause it has that feel. Yeah. Brooke Fast: ⁓ It's crazy when people say, like when I first started writing and people would say, ⁓ like characters, ⁓ my characters just running off and making these decisions. I didn't understand that at first because I was really trying to be the master of my plot, like, ⁓ I want exactly this to happen and this to happen and this to happen. But then when I let go, I was like, ⁓ the characters will make their own decisions if you just, I don't know, kind of get in their heads. And that's kind of what and not Gus deciding to die, but like Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: all those pieces coming together and like creating that moment where it seemed inevitable when it finally happened. Courtney Richter: Yeah, it was such a big moment of the book. Like you knew you were building to something, and then when it happened, you're just like, ⁓ But also the way it happened and that he pulled her in with him and the revenge on that. Cause okay, so if anyone has like the teeth, the hunter's wearing the teeth. Caitlin Stryker: Very cool. Ooh Yeah. Courtney Richter: How did that come to you? Because it's perfect, but it's so gross and so disturbing on so many levels. Brooke Fast: ⁓ my god. So I think I have to go back a little bit to like explain like the origins of the story because Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes, please do. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: like, Did this start as a writing exercise? Is that what I read about this one for you? Brooke Fast: ⁓ So sort yeah, so I first wrote the it has a short story in college. So I went to school for I've always wanted to be a writer, but I went to school for business because I was kind of one of those like, ⁓ it's not a practical career to pursue. You know, I didn't think it would happen. ⁓ But all of my like free credits, I was doing I was in writing classes. ⁓ So I just for a composition course written a paper on capital punishment and was just Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Totally get that. Yes. Yeah. Brooke Fast: thinking about all the history I learned and current day stuff happening and between that and I was reading a dystopian series called The The Darkest Minds by Alexandra Bracken. It's a really good ⁓ young adult series. ⁓ the idea for Endlock specifically just hit me. And I wrote the short story from the perspective of a hunter bringing their child to Endlock for a birthday party, which is like way different. Which is there's still a scene like that in the book. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, the teams. There is, which is one of the most disturbing ones, because I'm like, ⁓ but this is so exactly what would happen. There are those people that this would be their like birthday for their daughter. Ugh. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ okay. There's still it yes. Mm hmm. Brooke Fast: Yeah. to find like for how normalized it was in society. But so that was now that was probably ten years ago. I think it was 2016 when I wrote the short story. And then I came back to it in 2023 and I always say ⁓ it's so funny, I was writing with my friends and we stopped because we realized one of friends hadn't seen the Divergent movie, even though she loved the book series. ⁓ And we're on Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Right. Brooke Fast: like a writing retreat weekend we forced her to watch it with us. And while we were watching it, I was like, ⁓ my gosh. Like I remember how these books used to make me feel like I'd stay up all night, couldn't stop reading them. They made me like ask questions about the world, like these dystop young adult dystopian series. And so I thought of the book again, but I was really ⁓ mean, ⁓ aware of the political climate than I think I was when I was a freshman in college. ⁓ I was thinking about Yeah. So I was, you know, like I obviously ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Abs as you are a as you are as we age, right? You become more Brooke Fast: I was still thinking about capital punishment, but I was also thinking about so many different parts of the world around me. And a lot of it was like the way that we commodify everything, capitalism and consumerism. And I was trying to think of like the most in-your-face way to show us like consuming each other in a way and like wearing the teeth as jewelry, like wearing someone else, even like to me it was like a parallel, even of like how we purchase things and we don't know how they're made and like who's being hurt by the things that we're purchasing. You know what I mean? They're like purchasing these people's lives and like taking souvenirs and it's very it's all business. And yeah, so that's how I came up with that. And then my editor and I, is it okay to swear on here? Because I was my editor and I was talking about how Endlock was really like a super fucked up like Disney World in a way. Like people are coming in and they're like Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yes, absolutely. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, absolutely. We're totally R rated. Courtney Richter: Mm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: vacationing, they're doing like paying for these experiences like an amusement park, there's merch. And so that just kind of went in line with it and like all these businesses that like branched off because of Endlock. ⁓ So that's a really roundabout way to say it. It took me a while to settle on teeth, but it just felt right 'cause it was really gruesome. I don't know. Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Courtney Richter: Think about that. Like I had you not decide to go to school for business as well, like the commerce side that is so strong in this book and makes so much sense and feels dystopian wouldn't be there the same way that it is because of even your own experience with that and bringing that into your passion of writing ⁓ and with the incarceration climate is what made this book because I like I love this book. I think it's fantastically done. ⁓ It's intense, but it's also spicy and it's also a slow burn and I mean it's a lot like it's got everything. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: And I think it's I just from t the little bit of talking to you, it's all these facets of you that have come together in this perfect like amalgamation to make this story and make it seem believable. And I that's a credit to you 'cause it's- you know, we can see where it would go. And even th I loved that you included that they stopped committing crimes. Like I that after a bit that 'cause you start to wonder like why would anyone bother like Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Totally believable. Yeah. Brooke Fast: It is so Courtney Richter: But that it was forced, that they faked the food shortage, that they faked all this stuff so that people would have to commit crimes to keep going. Cause obviously if you were gonna be hunted, like going to prison, as much as the death sentence is over people's heads and they still murder, that is still another level of fear and would stop a lot of small crime. ⁓ But when you're starving, you have no choice, which is exactly what happens nowadays still with people and petty criminals. Like, Brooke Fast: Yeah. Courtney Richter: And you did it in a way, like, yes, that's exactly what would happen. That's exactly what people in power would do. That's exact like all of it is was believable and scary and sad, but also like just a good reminder of the business behind and the power and money behind so many decisions that happen and looking at it from that angle. And I just loved it. Brooke Fast: I it is like I, I th- I've never even thought about that either. How if I hadn't gone into business, like even if I'd come up with this story, it would have been so different, I'd imagine. It's just like if you give a concept to like ten different writers, the story's gonna be completely different. ⁓ So wow, I love thinking about it like that. But yeah, I, I think dystopian books when I was growing up really were Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: what made me want to be a writer first. So I think I've always had that on my mind because they were the first. I think I was in probably twelve or so when I started getting into books like The Hunger Games. And it was kind of like this moment where I they were the first books that made me stop and think about the world around me versus just like reading for escapism and entertainment. I started to really ask questions. And that was so inspiring. Even at that young age, I was like, wow, I want Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Brooke Fast: to be a part of this, like making people questions things like that. So yeah, it was really important. ⁓ A lot research went into it. That's why I mean, like I said, I first wrote it in 2016 and then had to go through so many drafts when I came back to it. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: I think it's interesting that you had written, ⁓ were inspired from the paper that you wrote about the incarceration system. ⁓ was that directly related to one of your business courses, like the business of the incarceration system, or was that just a different... okay. Yeah. Brooke Fast: it was more thinking about mass incarceration and capitalism, that sort of thing. But the paper I wrote was just for a composition course. It was it was one of my writing elective courses. And then I had a creative writing elective course that was happening at the same time. And so they were kind of inspiring it. But the composition course, we could write about whatever we ⁓ wanted. I can't remember why I chose Capital Punishment. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Right. Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Interesting. Brooke Fast: I have always been ⁓ morbidly with the darker parts of our society. Like I've written papers on like the history of asylums in our country and things like that. ⁓ I think, I don't know, in Capital Punishment, I was thinking a lot about how historically it was also used as a form of entertainment, you know, like public executions and things like that. Caitlin Stryker: Interesting. Courtney Richter: Mm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Brooke Fast: So it was more just like not like, ⁓ this still happens in these countries. It was like, okay, why are we making it? Yeah. What is it? Yeah, it's like a train wreck thing, right? Like you can't look away. Caitlin Stryker: What is it about us? Like, what is it about us that we enjoy that? Mm-hmm. It's something innate. It's obviously something like animalistic in us because we all, like all societies through all time kind of have that. You know, I also think it's interesting when people get, you know, upset about the state of the world and it's like we're the least violent now than we've ever been, which is crazy. ⁓ Brooke Fast: Yeah. it's just yeah, uh, it's a cycle of violence. And I don't know, I think even like I remember short stories growing up like The Lottery, if you if you two ever read that. Like ⁓ like that. Yeah. ⁓ Courtney Richter: It Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yes, I yes, I know that one. That's s so disturbing and like Courtney Richter: though, even this one in a book, because there was a movie similar to this, I feel like, that was about to come out ⁓ of and I think it was about ⁓ Republicans hunting Democrats or vice versa. And but it got canceled right before it came out. I think there was a school shooting at the time, and they were like, ⁓ we can't release this movie. Ike Barinholtz was in it and a bunch of stars, and they were like, No, ⁓ it was the time of another shooting. They're like, we can't put this out. ⁓ It's too on that. Which, if you look at that, the f- the idea to censor ⁓ the mediumship of like the visual of it that it's too hard for people to take in. But yet there are these books and books and people are been reading about it, and we've all known about this. And the reason it can be written is because we all know underneath it, like that this is always a possibility and is the next level that things can rise to. But when it's like in a movie in your face, it's still ⁓ censored to a degree. And I, I- that's the thing I love about books is that I feel like books can always go deeper. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Courtney Richter: then we would see in a film and it can take you there. And there's no fear around being truthful in books a lot of the time. Like there's fear, but like authors, like you can put it and you put it in this like romance package that is so good. And like let's we'll go back to the lighter side of the book because there's so many really fun, steamy things about this ⁓ But the topic of it's so fascinating. And as someone I did I was on the show Supergirl and we shot in a prison, in a old dow- junior youth prison. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yeah. There are yes. Courtney Richter: And I remember being in there and so depressed all day just being like, ⁓ this is not designed to help anyone. Like you can only come out of this place worse off. All the use that went through this prison, like they only come out worse off. And I feel like what you did with Endlock is that, but like, you know, took the veil off. Like you weren't hiding it. Like this is a horrible place. Nothing good is gonna happen to you here. You're being like it's just basically what already exists. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Brooke Fast: No. Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Courtney Richter: But just like exploited to another level. But that's the same thing. Like no one is coming out of that place better off. It is like the worst place I've been in my life. And I was like, the weight of it, I was this is horrible. And that's what I love about how you wrote it, because it's the same thing. It's just the honest truth of it. Brooke Fast: No, exactly. I think І мало. It is Yeah, it's like I don't know, that it really is just trying to show the most obvious version of what's really going on, I think, and like in a horrific way that I mean, I was I'm trying to think at the time I was looking at, you know, like how I think it's I wanna say it's a Scandinavian country, now I can't remember off the top of my head, that has like the lowest reoffence rate in the world. It's a crazy difference from the US because they focus on rehabilitation in their prisons and like treating people like humans versus Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. Brooke Fast: reoffense rates in the United States because we don't focus on rehabilitation at all. It's just about like this punishment, this punishment, and that's exactly what Endlock is. It's just treating people like they're less than human and not giving them a chance to come out the other side. I mean, and they're already there for reasons that are not real reasons at all. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly. That are per forced. Yeah. And the crimes that are on them because they purposefully, you know, shorten this the food supply, which makes people desperate. And desperate peop- desperate people will do desperate things. It doesn't matter who you are. Like at the end of the day, you'll do anything to survive, you know? ⁓ Courtney Richter: W the doctor that didn't save someone's life? Yes. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Exactly. Courtney Richter: a doctor that just couldn't save someone and he got incarcerated for it because people have power. The wrong patient. Like the fear around that. But then we get people like Vale, our main male male character, the prison guard. The prison guard who's secretly actually a good guy and trying to make a difference and try and do something positive from the inside that is that enemies to lovers kind of Brooke Fast: Yeah, he's at the wrong vacation at the wrong time. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: ⁓ trope with our with Raven, our main female character. So what was your inspiration behind Vale? Because I loved him. I was all all aboard Team Vale. You wrote a very hot, sexy male character who I loved. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ He was great. Yeah. Brooke Fast: I- I wanna say like when I first thought mean it was both, right? Like I was watching Divergent when the idea to write the book came to me again. ⁓ And love Theo James. I think I was just channeling same. I just want people to be obsessed with this ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Of course. How can we not love Theo James? Caitlin Stryker: Same, same. He's I still picture yeah. Yeah, I still picture him. Courtney Richter: His timing and casting as four, I am so thankful for. The best four. I'm so sad they didn't finish that series. Always. Yeah, I'm so sad they didn't finish that series. It's so frustrating that they didn't finish the films with that movie, that that series. But yes, Theo James. Brooke Fast: You too. I do too. But Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: But I think I mean between the I was just thinking ⁓ of a lot it is I've always been a voracious reader, always been super like connected to books, ⁓ unable to put down, like just breathing them in. And ⁓ I love seeing the types of that really make readers tick. And I think like also part of that that I feel really lucky about is how much ⁓ into the Bookstagram, Caitlin Stryker: Mm Brooke Fast: BookTok community I am. So like I was reviewing books, like before I published mine and I met so many amazing readers. And through being in community with people, you really see like the types of characters that resonate with people. And I wanted to write the kind of book that I would want to read. And in turn, like the people around me who share similar tastes would want to read. And I think so it was a combination of like, I'm, I would say I'm like pretty Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: scientific in a way when I write. Like there's different parts of it. But I just went through so many books trying to figure out what made me really root for a romance, what made me really root for a character. It's like, is there like this like specific thing? So I can't like point to like one aha moment, but I always knew I wanted it to be like enemies to lovers vibes. I always knew I wanted it to be like the complete opposites like there is taboo like inmate / prison guard Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Okay. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Brooke Fast: So I had to make it like make sense in a way. Like, you know, with who Raven is, they'll had to have a way like like a redeemable character arc. Like Raven's not gonna like fall in love with this ⁓ random prison guard who's like for system. And ⁓ I don't know, that power imbalance had to be handled. ⁓ But I did, I do love the opposites attract, like that kind of thing. I think it creates so much delicious tension. ⁓ And so... ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Right. Totally. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yes. Brooke Fast: Yeah, that's like a roundabout answer, but it was just a lot of different pieces of inspiration that culminated in into making it happen. Courtney Richter: for you now that you're saying it reminded me. When they first meet in the bar and they first have that first encounter and he's taking her to go somewhere alone, where was he taking her to? Because he can't take her to Endlock to his apartment. ⁓ But he's like, We're almost at my place. was he going? Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: Yeah. no, he was home and I'm like trying to think if I clarified this. He was home for his father's funeral for like a couple of days. Like and this was his Yeah, he has his own place that he was bringing her to, not Enlock. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, his place, right? Courtney Richter: So he has a place there and has his place there. Okay. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Well, I knew it couldn't be, but I was like, where did it? Okay, so that makes yeah, right, of course, because he's part of that. Yes. I think you did clarify it. I was like in a thing. I'm like, I wonder where they're going. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, no, obviously. Brooke Fast: Yeah, but No. I guess ⁓ probably didn't answer it till the end. Everyone's like, Where was he taking her? ⁓ Courtney Richter: It would have been, in the end once we knew his real identity. Which I have to say, when I got to them finally trying to escape, and then I realized how little was left. Like I was in a trance and I realized how little was left of the book. I'm like, ⁓ fuck, we're totally gonna be left hanging. ⁓ But I realize until so close to the end. And I'm like, ⁓ there's only this much left. Something bad is about to happen. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: Heard that so we Caitlin Stryker: I didn't feel left hanging though. I really didn't. Like I really felt no ⁓ I know ⁓ I didn't I didn't feel... That had to happen. You know what I mean? Like that that Courtney Richter: What do you mean, vowels in the prison? Yeah. I just knew we weren't getting the happy ending. Like I didn't know we were going into a two-book series yet. I was like, is this Brooke Fast: It's like not not a happy ending though. You know what I mean? I Courtney Richter: No, she's free. But we didn't get them together. Caitlin Stryker: That's what I'm saying. Like i it just but Brooke Fast: But I feel like they they couldn't be in the way that ⁓ I love to left to wanting more as a reader and that was - what I s that's No, no. I know how you feel like pain wise. Like I it's like that hate love thing, you're like, I need the next book right now, but also I love ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: That's great. I can't wait for the next story, but I didn't catch that it was happening until really late. Yes, exactly. I'm like Now I have to wait till 2027. Caitlin Stryker: feel left hanging is yes, it's a the the romance element is great. ⁓ And it's very much so like this tension of like, well, you know, how is it gonna go with with them? Because I think like you said, you set up these, these opposite type of characters. So it wasn't even like, how is it gonna work for them? You know, prison guard and she's gotta get out and all this stuff, but as who they are as people. It was like, how are these two really gonna come together? And then I was so invested in her and her cohort, her other prisoners, getting out. Like it for me, they needed to get out of the prison. You know, when Gus died, I was devastated, but I was like, he had to die. Like we had to lose that, that kind of like heart strength character, because otherwise it's too convenient, which like sucks, but you know Brooke Fast: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: this is the reality. Or we're gonna kill the kid. And I was like, let's not kill the kid, you know? ⁓ But one of the two of them were going. One of the two of them were dead meat. And with Vale and Raven, I was so much more worried about Raven getting out of the prison than I was about her getting together with Vale. I just like that my big thing was like, she has to get out with her brother. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Brooke Fast: Mm-hmm. Well, the stakes were so high, which was really important to me. I wanted it like it is like creating that balance is so difficult. Like I was like, No, I want this to be so dystopian, but I also want there to be so much romance. So it is interesting, like hearing different people's takes on that, like what they were most focused on. And I think it's cool that there's different sides of it too though. Like that that makes Courtney Richter: Yeah Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. I think Yeah. I think it's like different readers. Courtney Richter: out. Like it's that's the thing with the prison romance. Like I knew she was getting out. I- I knew it was coming. I just was like, are we getting the whole group out? Or are we now and then like, ⁓ we're not. Someone's gonna stay. And it did too. But I like, yeah, from different perspectives, reading it, what you're investing. For me, it was hard. Like when we got to chapter, I want to say twenty-nine, when they finally get to have sex, before like this is like, ⁓ this is gonna happen this is our last chance. I'm like, Brooke Fast: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Courtney Richter: ⁓ Okay, one of them's not going out of here, but like- But I was so glad we got to have that and in such a spicy, like hot way against the wall ⁓ sex scene that we earned. You did, you thank you. That was enough to hold me till the next one. Brooke Fast: You're like some things that fall apart though. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: Yes. It is at least see at least they gave you that The ending used to completely different, I will say. And ⁓ can I? I mean, we're in the spoiler section of ⁓ everyone knows. I guess, we just told them how it ends, so totally fine. ⁓ Yeah, like at first ⁓ and this is what meant when I said I had to learn to let characters make choices from them- for themselves. And this is why this book took so many drafts, because Caitlin Stryker: Ooh, can you tell us a little bit about it? Courtney Richter: Without spoiling BookTube. Caitlin Stryker: We're in the spoiler section. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Brooke Fast: At first I was really like, this is going to happen, this is going to happen. And so Raven was a lot more unforgiving when she learned who Vale was. Caitlin Stryker: Hmm. Brooke Fast: She found out right, right before they escaped because the warden told her when they were underneath. And so when they escaped, she like played nice, but she was in her head, she like basically was like, I'm turning him in as soon as we get there. So it was more like this they were together, but it was a betrayal. But it was so untrue to what Raven would actually do. Like based on her, the built trust between her and Vale, even though it was a huge betrayal, like he'd Courtney Richter: Hm. Caitlin Stryker: Okay. Brooke Fast: proven in a lot of ways, like these qualities. And I don't know, it just when I started letting her make decisions it all just it all just changed. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: that's the only way that they could have gotten out together would be that like what's gonna I, I, I like how you have it. I really like how you have it. Brooke Fast: And he redeemed himself too, like for by like really showing how much he was willing to take to himself to let them get out, you know, like that. Caitlin Stryker: I think even the twist of, you know, when you brought in who his mom was and who his dad ⁓ you know, like who both of his parents, so he grew up in such a divided home. And then his mom being like the big kind of head honcho of the whole system and her having like her necklace of teeth and all of this stuff. And it was just like Brooke Fast: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Oh wow, I mean this is like a family drama thing going on as well, you know, which was really cool and really interesting. And ⁓ how could you know with, with that being brought in the and the way that it ended now, how could Raven not, you know, trust him? 'Cause like, you know, the ⁓ Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: Exactly. And that, yeah. A lot of little pieces changed to make that happen too, but yeah, it was just in staying true to her character. We were like, she would forgive him. She would trust him based on everything established. So Courtney Richter: I actually really liked how you did it and I liked that you didn't drag out her anger. Like, you know, in some they stay mad and eventually you're like, okay, but like let's get over it now. It's here, let's go. ⁓ And you didn't do that all. Like you I think you actually held it the perfect amount. And I, I really- Because I could see her hurt over it, but I also f fully was on board with her forgiving and trusting him. And like to be s- to ⁓ be very clear, I'm glad you ended the book. I think it needed to end that way. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Brooke Fast: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Trust me, I fully get like having to wait after that. ⁓ Oh my gosh. And you, you wouldn't be surprised how often I hear that too. Everyone's like, I can't believe I have to wait until next Courtney Richter: is just sad that now I was waiting for the next book. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Like Now you have room to make a little bit of a triangle with Gray, even more than it was. Which I always love a little bit of a love triangle. Even though she's into Vale, there's like a big time that can happen. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: So many people either I feel like that's like fifty fifty. Some people are like, ew love triangle and some people love it, ⁓ so ⁓ Courtney Richter: ⁓ I love it. I love I love when you know it's which way it's gonna go, but it causes a little friction and jealousy of the man over the woman. I always love that when she gets a little extra power for a minute of the attraction. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, it's true. Brooke Fast: Yes. tension. I love like tension, banter, ⁓ all so yeah, book two, so much fun writing it. It was so f- like I'm gonna say fun, but I like I say that knowing that this is like also a very dark book ⁓ and a of the elements are not fun to work with. It's always so funny to me when someone's like, I had so much fun reading this and I'm like, I know what you mean, but it's so funny. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Haha. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yes. Courtney Richter: is fun about reading, right? When you're totally immersed in a different world and escaping into it. The escapism of reading that but you can't get out of it. Like even when it leaves you crying or like, you know, taking pieces of you, there's a fun to that because it means you fully got to invest and escape into someone else's story. It's, it's such a funny dynamic, but yes. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Yeah. That, that was like I feel like I've been chasing that. I mean, I don't know, you know, like when you're a teenager, maybe this is just me too, and it's like you ⁓ are still, I still getting into reading, like I was still discovering new kinds of books and so it was like almost every book I read like gave me that like, ⁓ oh my gosh, I can't put this down. I just wanna stay up all night reading it. And then like as I got older and read more books, it just became harder and harder to catch that feeling. So that's what I was Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm. Brooke Fast: encapsulate with this book. I was like, I really want people to feel the way that I felt like when I read these kinds of books for the first time. ⁓ So yeah. I don't know what I can't remember what you just said that made me think of that, but I was just Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Well, the fun of it, of getting swing. Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: It's the enjoyment of the dark story. ⁓ Brooke Fast: though it is, it is just like the the pacing of that, the stakes, it all does make it just like very, you know, even if your heart's racing and you're experiencing so much anxiety while you're reading this book, you also are obsessing over it, that kind of thing- ⁓ was ⁓ yeah, it was cool write, but also difficult. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: I remember Twilight, which is controversial some, but like that was the first series that pulled me in that I was like, ⁓ how do you let this go? When I was younger and I read it the first time, and I'm like obsessing about the care I'd never obsessed about characters before or thought of their story. And I was like, wait, how do I how do I walk away from this now? I had to like learn how to let a series go. And then Hunger Games did it to me. And Diverg- that I'm like, Well, now what? Like- ⁓ And they finished series. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: ⁓ my gosh. I Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ god. All I do is obsess. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Like my husband wasn't as big of a reader when he was a teenager. So I was like trying to give him the lore of like feeling sick, physically ill, over like having to wait for a book and being obsessed with characters. ⁓ And I don't know if was just like pre frontal lobe development, like emotions happening, ⁓ but ⁓ that was such an time. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes! It was I mean the c I think Caitlin's frozen actually. Caitlin, are you there? I think she's stuck. Hopefully she'll go out and come back in. Sorry for. There, okay, she's coming back. My most recent version of that was heated rivalry. That was my most recent that I got obsessed with something. Like fully in the books, fully in the series, and just like couldn't ⁓ broke the books. The books are so I started the show, then went to the book. Brooke Fast: Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ yeah, for me too. ⁓ my god. I haven't read the books yet, but the show, same thing. I was like experiencing every emotion within any 'cause you knew, really. Courtney Richter: 'Cause I the episodes weren't out and I was like, I knew. And then when you get in their mind, and then the second book too, the long game, definitely worth a read. Brooke Fast: That's what my friend said. She was like, You have to read the books, like it's like you get in so much deeper. So I I will, I swear. Courtney Richter: ⁓ my god. okay. I know you're busy. But yes, I read and then I do I dove into all of them. I read the whole like and it had that's the closest I've had to that feeling as a kid, as a teen, than when I like just obsessed and couldn't like walk away and just like listening to music. Yeah, yeah, that totally had that. How fat I won't because we're not recording, but ⁓ well we are, but we can cut this. ⁓ How fast did you write the second book? Brooke Fast: ⁓ my gosh. I'm always chasing my guy. ⁓ Yeah. The second book, ⁓ the second book was actually a lot harder for me. I think like I wrote the first one so fast, even with all the drafts, it was like I drafted it so fast. But the second book, I felt a lot of pressure. It at that point, I was like, ⁓ I'm contracted. I have to get this on deadline. So it took me a lot longer. And I think I also wanted to make sure I was like, Courtney Richter: Yeah. Right. Brooke Fast: all the character doing all the characters justice. Like if people were falling in love with these characters, I it was just really important to me to get it right. Obviously with the first one too, but it's different 'cause I was kind of in a bubble. ⁓ So I'm trying to think. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Brooke Fast: It's a hard question to answer because I didn't have to write as many drafts because I became a stronger writer after editing the first book. But I mean, probably eight months to like write it. I am a f- I will say I'm a fast writer, but I I do write a lot of drafts because of that, because I'm not as clean at first. Courtney Richter: Right. ⁓ that's really quick, yeah. Yeah. That gets- But what made you, you said you had written quite a few that you hadn't gone into a second draft. What made you go into a second draft with this one? Brooke Fast: ⁓ gut feeling. ⁓ just felt I've never like after ⁓ like I thought of the idea again after watching ⁓ Divergent movies, I just went home and wrote it- a terrible first draft like three weeks 'cause I couldn't get it out of my head. And I knew like I knew without knowing, like you never expect to get a publishing deal, like at least for me it was like a a pipe dream. But I was like, if anything ⁓ get Courtney Richter: Yeah. ⁓ wow. Brooke Fast: me signed with an agent, I just feel like it's this. It just felt like that. Courtney Richter: Is that how you did it? You wrote it and submitted to agents, or did you go ⁓ self publish first? Brooke Fast: No, I got an agent first. It's so funny though. A lot of people do think I was indie first. I think because social media and like the way I market, I'm very inspired by indie authors. So I do pick up a lot of like tips and tricks from indie authors. But no, I like polished the book, submitted to agents, ⁓ and then went out on sub and get a publishing deal. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Amazing. That's like the dream. That's awesome. And worthy of it. Like I'm not surprised from reading the book that that's how it happened. And I think people think you're indie as well because often the ⁓ romantacy or dystopian books tend to go indie, get a huge following 'cause they're so good. And then, you know, traditionally publish the second round. But I'm not surprised that you did it. Caitlin Stryker: That is so cool. I love that. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a consideration for me 'cause I have a lot of like self published author friends ⁓ and I like didn't know if I could do everything that they do. Like they handle so much ⁓ and I know if I was prepared for it. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Mmm. ⁓ Yeah, that makes so much sense. Courtney Richter: You got your social media like killing it. Brooke Fast: Yeah, it was it was a journey. I didn't it wasn't like I ⁓ I'm trying to think, like when I was querying looking for an agent, it ⁓ all smooth sailing. Like I got a lot of rejections at first and actually my agent that I ended up signing ⁓ met with me and gave me some feedback on the book, but she was like, I, I don't think it's ready. I'm not gonna sign you, but I just wanna let you know like I really love the concept and here are some things that I think could improve it. So I pulled it from everyone and spent like several months revamping it and cleaning it up. So grateful to her. And it made me trust her a lot too because I was worried ⁓ in a way my social media would like affect an agent picking up the book even if they didn't like it. And I was, I really didn't want that to ⁓ And it made me trust her that she was like, needs some work, ⁓ So Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Brooke Fast: I was like when I fixed it, I was like, Hey, would you be willing to look at this again? And she did. And yeah, so I'm still with her. I love her. She's the best. Courtney Richter: always the best, right? That honest feel even for me, like as an actor with my agent, I will take an agent be like, This is good, just give me a couple notes to like refine an audition, then someone's like, Great, killed it. And you're like, No, I will always remember honest, like I like it, but like yeah, Exactly. Like two, I'm not that great all the time. Like there's always room. Yes. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Yeah. I don't trust perfectly back. And like you always want to get better, right? Like even if like you're improving it's like please help me like all I wanna do is keep improving. So yeah. Courtney Richter: ⁓ I think that's amazing. And I hope ⁓ Caitlin's able to come back on. we may drive when she comes on. We'll wrap it up so that we can make sure it uploads because I don't wanna lose what we've recorded on here. She's in New York, so she's got the heat, I think, battling. Brooke Fast: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ yeah yeah. ⁓ my gosh, I've heard it's been s like eltering, yeah. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes. One of the the fun New York apartment things. It's so amazing to get to be there and staying there. But she's yeah, he's got her husband's currently on in a Broadway show, so they're spending time in New York. ⁓ August Wilson's ⁓ Joe Turner. Joe Turner, I'm forgetting the full name of it. ⁓ Let me tell you in one second. Brooke Fast: Yeah. ⁓ no way, which show? No, you're good. Courtney Richter: should know it. I've said Joe Turner's come and gone. Here we go. Yeah. Hus and Brad's a night. Yeah. Yes. This will all be cut, but yeah, she was at the Tony's last night with their husband 'cause a bunch of the cast and everyone was like yeah, nominated from it. Yeah. Brooke Fast: Okay, that's so cool though. ⁓ my gosh. A dream. ⁓ my god. That's so cool. That yeah, that's your that's so New York. I'm like, ⁓ we'll just cast I love it. And you're an actress. You said supergirl too. That's so cool. Courtney Richter: Right. Yes, I did it in Vancouver. I'm an actor and I also work for Indigo, the book company here, which is our love it, and then ⁓ I am a writer as well. So I'm currently working, Cait and I kinda writing a romance ourselves ⁓ and doing it hopefully next year. Yes, yeah, we're co-writing together. Brooke Fast: Mm-hmm. ⁓ How do you- so I'm thinking about co-writing, with two of my like best friends that I was at that writing retreat with. How do you ⁓ like it must be nice having someone Courtney Richter: It's great. The way we've done it, and it's been a minute now because of life is one writes a chapter and then sends it and then the other one does and then sends it back. And it's been that. And we recently talked to ⁓ Ellis Hunter from Blood Bound. And yes, they wrote that each of them had the two characters and they completely wrote those characters. So you switch point of view and they just both owned their characters and did it that way too. Brooke Fast: No whether. I have that book, yeah. Haven't read it yet. like- ⁓ isn't that like Zodiac Academy too? Yeah. I love that. I got that book because Blood Bound because I read that they were like, like best friends and they like the book was like centered on like trying to bring that friendship to life too, even with the romance that really got me. I love like friendships in, in books so Courtney Richter: Yeah, exactly. Like certain characters lie in. Oh Blood Bound is such- like it's so good in terms of female friendship and changes things to the female point of it. You should definitely read it. It's a really cool one. It's definitely like a twist on it. It's worth the read for sure. Yeah. Yeah, it's a different thing on it. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: like ⁓ Allurial edition if you saw that one, but ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes, yes, It's beautiful. And Cait, Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. My husband is editing a movie on this right now on our internet and my, so he's on a video call and my son was also playing video games. And I was like, I just kicked Beckett off the video games. And I'm like, guys, we're stressing the system too much. Like, damn it. So now I'm popped in on my phone. So I'm on a totally separate system. Sorry about this, but. Brooke Fast: Yes, mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Okay. Caitlin Stryker: Oh my gosh. Did you Did you show the Allurial version of the book? Courtney Richter: I was saying you're in New York, it's hot. Brooke Fast: They did such a good job with it. Like the foiling on it is what gets me because it is like I'll do the full the full time. Like even the back like has the foiling. ⁓ Oh it's hard to see in this light, but all of that is foiled. Such an amazing job. And I got to go to their offices when I was in New York for BookCon and that was the coolest thing ever too. I was like... ⁓ I ⁓ was- BookCon so fun. It was my first time doing ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yeah, it's the show. It's so pretty. You can ⁓ I love that. ⁓ my gosh, how is BookCon for you? Brooke Fast: like a big, ⁓ like I've done my own events but like doing like signings and I was I got to be on an author panel, which was like very much ⁓ my gosh, what am I doing on an author panel? So it's like huge pinch me like the whole day was just like me pinching myself. Like, ⁓ my gosh, I can't believe I'm, I'm doing this. This is crazy. ⁓ But it's so cool like talking to readers who have read my book, like that's the most surreal thing about it. I think I'm like, whoa, people are reading this. People yeah, I don't know. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Brooke Fast: It's cool. I love hearing what people think. Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ amazing. That's so cool. Courtney Richter: ⁓ That's amazing. And well deserved as 'cause you have Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah, absolutely amazing. Okay, I want to, we talked. Courtney Richter: I know we're talking. We did it. Yes, let's do the spice matter. We can, but you get delayed. So we kinda like Okay, let's do the spice meter. So So Brooke, we have a spice meter on our podcast that we do it by pumpkins because this started in the fall. We're fall girlies. We love pumpkin spice lattes and everything cozy. So we do one pumpkin, two pumpkin, three pumpkins, sassy pumpkin, sexy pumpkin. Caitlin Stryker: he's gonna say, did we do this spice meter? I know we're gonna wrap. I know we're gonna wrap up. Can you hear me? Brooke Fast: Sorry, I think Caitlin Stryker: Don't worry, it'll edit out fine. Brooke Fast: ⁓ I love it. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah Brooke Fast: ⁓ maybe. Courtney Richter: Correct, Caitlin? Yes. We haven't gotten to a sexy in a while. That's our pumpkin meter, as we have with our pumpkin. So, ⁓ we tend to say anything over three is hard, is like has- hard to read on a bus. That's kind of like where I put it. Like if it's a four, you like might be like awkward reading on a public place on a bus. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Yeah. Brooke Fast: ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: Exactly. Mm-hmm. Brooke Fast: is, ⁓ this so hard to answer because I feel like spice levels, like some people will be like this is the spiciest book I've ever read and some people are like, ⁓ that's nothing. ⁓ I feel like it's actually quite, quite tame in terms of some spicy books I've read. I'd give it like two, maybe three. I don't know. I'm curious what you guys would say. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, it's totally personal preference. Courtney Richter: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin Stryker: Mm-hmm. Courtney Richter: Yeah. I think I'd say... I'll put it as a three, two and a half, three. That's where I would put it. Two and a half, three. Because it does get descriptive and it's hot. And I got turned on from it. So it's over that. Like, if it gets me in the mood, then it definitely reaches towards that three. Like the moments that are. It's not like spice, spice, spice, spice, spice by any means. They're they're pick and choose. Brooke Fast: Yeah, two and a half would be. Caitlin Stryker: I think two and a half, three. It does. It's hot. Brooke Fast: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. It's definitely spicy. That's why I'm like, is it in terms of like how descriptive it is or like how much there is? Because I would say like as far as like percentage of the book, it's quite small. There's like three like three scenes, I think. I can't remember now. They are yeah. Courtney Richter: ⁓ Oh and I want to say, I love that you had him take the birth control. I love whenever authors do it because that is what it should be. There should be birth control for both. And I love that you included that. ⁓ An important call out. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Brooke Fast: ⁓ Yeah, it's it's yeah. I've always wanted to write that into a book. That was like one of my things on like I had like a little checklist of like small things I wanted. That was on there. ⁓ Courtney Richter: I love honestly, I enjoy the sex that much more when you can be like uncovered, no condom, you know, bare. No, and sh- no worry on her. It can just be a good time. ⁓ I really ⁓ loved I really, really loved that. And it was hot, like the whole picture against the wall and him like pu- you did it very well. So I will say a three because you did the descriptors justice. ⁓ And I definitely got turned on reading it. So I will put it at a three. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: So good. Brooke Fast: Yeah, you understand she doesn't have to worry about it. She you know. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah Brooke Fast: Well, thank you. really is, I must say. Like that was like a good like amount of like mo- moments of levity ⁓ in this book. I was let's have a little bit of fun here. ⁓ Courtney Richter: Yes. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah, ⁓ I love that. Courtney Richter: I think had you done it closed door, it would have been a little too dark to be in the romance... Where it needed that like, it needed that spice to really like keep it in dystopian romance. And fun. Who doesn't want a little spice in there, right? ⁓ We all need the escape. And with such a hot, like main male character, we definitely earned the ⁓ joy that Raven got. Brooke Fast: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Yeah. Brooke Fast: And fun. Caitlin Stryker: Right? Brooke Fast: Yeah. ⁓ Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ Oh yeah, ⁓ Oh yeah, it was great. It was so good. It amazing. ⁓ All right, well, Brooke, thank you so much for joining us and talking with us about To Cage a Bird. ⁓ It's an book. ⁓ Everyone should it. ⁓ And if you love a dystopian romance, I mean, this is top tier. It's so good. Courtney Richter: Good. Brooke Fast: ⁓ thank you. Courtney Richter: Yes. Yes. Brooke Fast: ⁓ Ah, thank you. It's been so much fun chatting with both of you. Thanks for having me. Courtney Richter: Our pleasure. Anytime we'll have you next year. We can talk about book two. What is what is book two called? I saw it today. What is it called again? Caitlin Stryker: ⁓ it thinks it's coming up. Brooke Fast: ⁓ yeah, let's do it. That's called To Unleash a Darker Fate. Courtney Richter: ⁓ So good. To Unleash a Darker Fate. In February 2027, right? Caitlin Stryker: Ooooo Brooke Fast: Yeah. Caitlin Stryker: Amazing. Brooke Fast: Yeah. February 9th. Courtney Richter: February 9th, 2027 Book Two. ⁓ I can't wait. Caitlin Stryker: We don't even have to wait that long. Brooke Fast: Mark your calendar. No, that's not bad, right? Caitlin Stryker: Amazing. No, not at all. Courtney Richter: Yeah. Yes. Ha ha ha ⁓ Yes, thanks Thanks everyone. That's it for today's episode. ⁓ We'll see you next time on Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. Happy reading. Thank you, Brooke. And we'll talk Bye. ⁓ Brooke Fast: Thank you. Caitlin Stryker: Bye! Okay, obviously everybody hang on. Courtney Richter: And it's hang on, Zach will make sure it