Latest / Goodlife Church Formation Podcast / Balancing Vision, Resources and Church Growth
Transcript
- Jack O'Brien: Well, good day. Welcome back to another episode of the Good Life Formation podcast. I'm here with Pastor Dave and Bex. Strange to get you both in the same digital room. Welcome. She's back. Where have you been, Dave Connett: We found her. We found her, Jack. Bex: I'm here, I'm here. Working hard, that's what I've been doing. What about you two? You guys just have conversations. Jack O'Brien: Sounds like Dave Connett: she says that all the time, Jack. I don't know. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, well, wonder how many podcast listeners would understand the phrase badger. ⁓ Bex: You guys just spend your time drinking coffee and talking to people while someone does all the work. Jack O'Brien: No, that's the past is Becca. I'm not, I'm not one of those pastoral coffee types. ⁓ No, not me. Bex: No. Dave Connett: I definitely am. That's all I do. Jack O'Brien: Very good. Right. We're going to talk. People would have seen the topic of this podcast and there'll be some of us who would get lit up to quote me and Louis lit about finances. Dave Connett: Yeah, are we going mudding after this? Jack O'Brien: And others, well, I mean, those who are not interested probably would have seen the title and just scrolled on. let's talk church budget, finance, financial stewardship. You know, I think we are in budget season at the time of recording and I know Bex you are, yeah, very deep in spreadsheets and cells and all the things. How do you think about church budgets? Dave, you go first and then Bex, like what's your guiding thought or principle? Dave Connett: ⁓ Look, Dave Mack said to me back in the day, if you want to build a church, you got to be good with God, good with people, and you got to pay your bills. So finance is the stewardship to make sure that you can continue to do the things that are very, very important. Obviously, the way that you run your finances says a lot about your character, where your treasure is there is your heart. And so there are three key principles when it comes to finance, which is faith and stewardship. and generosity and those apply for individuals but also for the house of God. What we want is for individuals and the church to have an abundance for every good work. We want to understand that there are great things to be done and God actually includes Christians to believe for resource, believe for finance, to bring their tithes and offerings and for that to be, God says, hey, now when he says prove me in this, test me in this, it does talk about benefits that come, you know, and I'll open the windows of heaven, the devourer rebuke, your vines will not fail to bear fruit. But he wants food in his house. And so God includes us to be able to be the ones that believe him for resource to be able to bring it to the house of God in a definitely a tides and with options for offerings on top of that. And then what we get to do as we manage those finances. is have a system of accountability and management and structure that means that we are effective in the stewardship of those resources to stretch every dollar as far as it can go and to have an abundance for every good work. So it's not just believing for more, but it's shooting what we've got. ⁓ And people are people are bringing their offerings to Good Life Church ⁓ at giving it to God via the work of local church, according to scripture. And we need to deal with every penny. like it is that very beautiful, special offering that people are giving to God. And we want to deal with that really, really well, really cleverly, really wisely. Jack O'Brien: What about you Bex, how do you think about the wonderful topic of budgets? Bex: ⁓ I think about it on two levels. On the most practical level, my life currently is spreadsheets and spreadsheets that lead to other spreadsheets and then other spreadsheets that lead to new spreadsheets. So that's a very practical way of how I think about it. But in reality, it's kind of what Dave was talking about. I take the stewardship of God's money very seriously. This is not my money. This is not our money. You know, this is God's money and it's his church. our job is to be, to do the absolute best we can to be obedient to him in wise stewards ⁓ of what he's given us. And that doesn't mean, you you've got the power of the talents, right? And that can mean a variety of different things. But when it comes to budgets, it's going, okay, what is the wisest way we can steward this to advance the kingdom of God? ⁓ How do we do the right things now to set up a legacy for the next generation to come? ⁓ How do we do wise things in the short term for 2026 to reach people, not only reach the last, yes, but also have an environment where people can be discipled and lives can be transformed by the decisions we make with our money. I mean, I take it very seriously. I guess I feel the in a good way, I feel the weight of that responsibility if it's God's money and I've got to do the right thing by it. Jack O'Brien: Hmm. Yeah, I it. It's interesting. I, ⁓ there's probably two principles that come to mind for me, you know, you know, corporate commercial sense, the way we often talk about it is it's, it's preferential allocation of capital to achieve an outcome. And so we get to choose what is our preference. There are, there are many ways that we could deploy assets, capital resource, so many ways we could deploy it. What is the most preferential way? What is the Bex: Mm. Jack O'Brien: best way to achieve the outcome, the most efficient, most productive. so, you know, we want to, like the Dave Ramsey kind of idea, right? We want to give every dollar a job and we want to make sure that we're giving it the best job, whether that's across our properties or our people or our programs, so that we achieve the desired outcome of transforming our world. We have many different ways we could spend it. How are we going to choose to spend it? Maybe Bex, do you to, in terms of one of those guiding principles, we think about benchmarks and Bex: Mm. Yep. Jack O'Brien: percentage allocations and why that matters. You know, I mentioned those three P's just then. Do you perhaps want to speak to how we think about programs, property and people broadly? Bex: Yes, do you want to elaborate on your question so I know you're actually asking me? Jack O'Brien: Well, we aim for benchmarks, right? We aim for certain percentages and try and divvy it up like that. Bex: Yeah, we do. I mean, it's a long term goal. And so we kind of go, okay, we know what we're working towards. It doesn't mean we're there yet. So long term, the goal to reach is, you know, 30 % on people, 30 % on programs, 30 % on property. And then that leaves 10 % of generosity so that we as a church can also be generous. And that might be generous, you know, in, you know, if there's a disaster somewhere we can actually contribute to, or it might be generous in there's a family that's had a death on the other side of the country, or we can help that person get there, areas of generosity. And so we try to use these percentages as, I guess, guidelines of what we're aiming towards. Now, it doesn't mean we're there yet, but that's what we're... Jack O'Brien: Well, it looks different for every church, right? We own our building. So clearly we don't have to put money to a mortgage. We put money to our future building. And similarly in a personal context, right? know, Ash and Karen Gullo would often teach our church that you want to allocate no more than 30 % of your family income to your mortgage or your rent payments. You know, your car should be, you know, whatever, X percent of your annual income, blah, blah, blah. So it's good for us to have these benchmarks and guidelines to aim for. Bex: So, yeah. Yeah. And just to be, I guess, clear with the three P's, ⁓ know, people, property, programs, it's, you know, the programs are our ministry, it's all people at the end of the day, right? So when we're programs, we're talking kids ministry, youth ministry, red frogs, young adults, like, connect groups, all those things, all the things that we do. So it's still all people at the end of the day, isn't it? Jack O'Brien: Right, right. Dave, when it comes to department leaders, obviously, you know, church is a complex organism with many voluntary leaders, etc. What are some of the Yeah, what are some of the ways that you teach department leaders to think about budgeting? Dave Connett: Yeah, great question. The whole thought of resource is it's there to achieve the vision. Now, a vision doesn't change. We're transforming the world with the truth and the power of Jesus Christ. But yet that is so large, then you need to then have a strategy. And so what are we doing as a church in this season, in this time? Then what we do is you go back to how I'm going to achieve that. And then that speaks to your your calendar, because one resource you have is time. and another one speaks to your budget because the resource is dollars. And then it speaks to your org chart. And so how are you developing people and ⁓ releasing people for the call of God and supporting those people within a structured system? ⁓ So it all comes down to that. So what's the vision? ⁓ So Jake and Nika wanted to ⁓ wanted to run a state youth camp. So we sit down with a separate budget and then we go. Where's the money coming from? You want to do this big thing? You want to have a big tent? Righto, where you getting the cash from? And then so that's where we ended up. I said to Jake, well, if we're going to if we're going to invite the state, we're not just sending out invites and hoping they come. We're going to do a development tour. So the vision then spoke to the allocation of time of people and of finance to be able to achieve ⁓ that vision. Now, if that youth camp doesn't serve good life church, then we would not have even started that. So it's been a blessing over and over and over again. So what we're looking to do is to go, what's the vision? What's the strategy? How are we going to predict the spending of time, talent and treasure across that time? My whole thought, Ross Abraham told me years ago when it comes to budgeting. He goes, never give a vasectomy to something that's gonna reproduce. So what you gotta look for in church life is what is reproducing, what will reproduce, and are we actually putting resources towards that? Now there are certain departments that have more agency, ability to be able to find resource, think up ideas, ⁓ et cetera. And the older you go, the more that you've got. ⁓ But for kids ministry, Look, you could do tides and offerings at kids ministry, but that $3.10 is probably not going to be super, you know, it's not going to be great for the budget along the way. So what we need to do is say Matt and Tori and the kids team, we back you. And so Matt and Tori put them in a ⁓ budget ⁓ proposal and they put it through to, well, it all goes communication through to Bex. She puts that into the spreadsheets. Then like this last week, Bex and I have gone through with it. Now, ⁓ Previously, when Bex wasn't the business manager, I've done that with other people in that role. We go through that together and we go, how can we best allocate? But what I've got to do is because I'm the past and mentoring that and Tory and all the other department leaders is go, they're not thinking big enough or hey, they're at level three right now, but they're aiming at 27. That's too much of a jump. Man, I've got to get up. So all of a sudden those... budget templates start to give me the understanding of how I can develop that person. Now, if someone wants to reach for the stars, man, I am all over that. I love that. And so what I'm looking to do is to help them then build the team, build the finance. How can we back them? What's the right step now? What I can say is, hey, look, we will allocate this, but I need you to achieve this for us to then think about the next one. And so I'm always thinking that these three things of resource. should be thrown at our strategy, which is all about consistently heading towards that big vision. Jack O'Brien: Hmm. I love it. that whole notion of we want to minimize our necessary overheads and electricity and insurances and things of that nature, but invest in things that provide a return, particularly a kingdom return or an eternal return. fun fact, I actually quoted that back to Ross, the pastor Ross the other day, ⁓ he didn't realize it was from him. ⁓ but it worked in our favor, worked in our favor eventually. That's a conversation for another day, but yes. Dave Connett: Yeah, exactly. ⁓ I can claim that from me now. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, yeah, that was fun. ⁓ Bex, yeah, yeah, I'll fill you in off the line. Bex, there's probably stuff in our budget that people have no idea about the running of church and some of these things have like really ballooned recently and like the unnecessary expenses, but they certainly don't move the kingdom forward. Dave Connett: I will let him know about that. I'm actually, I should just stop attributing it to him and just say it's for me. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Jack O'Brien: And there's other components that have always been a part of an INC church's budget. Can you perhaps speak to some of those things that the average good life is not familiar with, but are significant components of what we do? Bex: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. Good thing to talk about because sometimes people go, ⁓ the tides just go to the senior passes wage. No, no, no. There's a lot of things. ⁓ mean, in terms of things that have the most boring thing that has ballooned for everyone ⁓ recently is insurance. And, you know, I don't even speak to that because if you're an adult, you know that your insurance premiums have gone up. ⁓ Jack O'Brien: No. But I'd say to that, Bec, sorry, our church premiums have gone up disproportionately to household insurance premiums. We're talking 20, 30, 50 % increases. Dave Connett: and power bills. Bex: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. mean, tens of thousands of dollars. yeah, insurance is just, ⁓ church is being hit really hard on the insurance front. ⁓ So that's a massive chunk actually, just insurance. Jack O'Brien: What about levies? how does that work for a movement? Bex: Yeah, so that's that's the other thing is we pay a percentage. ⁓ Every church in INC pays a levy to the ⁓ to national office effectively. And that's what then ⁓ enables our national office, head office to function. And people go, well, why do they need that? Well, the beauty of how our movement actually works is that head office, our national office actually ⁓ oversees a lot of things on our behalf. All right, so Even things like let's talk about insurances. ⁓ I don't have to ring up a million different insurance companies and try and find a good deal. ⁓ We actually have all that organized as a group. So for our entire movement of all of our churches, that's all just done in-house for us. It means we have brokers that are again in-house we can contact. ⁓ All the resources that we get from national office are just so useful. And so that's where our levies go to. ⁓ to enable things to just flow. And it means that churches, particularly, you know, there's some churches that are smaller and the senior pastor is the only person and they're trying to do everything. And so having a national office that can go, hey, we've got this covered, this is sorted, that's sorted. It actually just removes some of that load from senior pastors. So that's a very small percentage that we pay every month, but every church pays that levy ⁓ into the office. Yeah. Jack O'Brien: Hmm. Yeah, interesting. Dave, I'll come back to you in a moment. Bex when it comes to budgeting for income, we operate off donations, right? We have no predictable, consistent, or least predictable income stream. So we are, we're very conservative about how we think about that. Do you want to maybe speak to that process? Bex: Yeah, we're very, careful on that because the last thing you want to do is prepare a budget thinking you're going to get an X and you get in much less than X, you know, and so we have to be very, very careful. We track ⁓ how everything is going every, every, know, every month. And so when we're looking at the next year's budget, we're looking at, okay, what was it looking like this year? And we do something called normalizing. we, you know, every once in a while, someone will give a very unusually larger size tithe and it's not their normal tithe. It's, you know, they've sold a house or something like that has happened. And we're very careful to not include that kind of ⁓ in our next year's projected giving because that was extraordinary. It was unusual. So we're very careful to go, okay, what is just the week in week out normal tithes and we'll use that to then budget what's happening for the following year. And, and it is a challenge because we've always got more vision than resource, you know, and God provides and God enables us to do a lot more than we would be able to do on our own back. ⁓ But we do have to be very, very careful to make sure that when we're looking at department budgets, and factoring insurance costs and building costs and maintenance costs, you know, all the all just the boring things, cleaning equipment, all that sort of stuff, we've got to factor in as well as the ministries as well as wages, we've got to be very, careful going, okay, well, this is what we're going to have coming in. And let's be very diligent and good stewards of that to make sure that we don't go backwards, that we go forwards and we were saving and we're working towards, know, making sure we've got an emergency fund and all those things just to be diligent and responsible. Jack O'Brien: How do you think about that tension of reality versus vision? We're going to have to budget on like reality and, you know, ⁓ conservative cases, but yet we want to have big vision stretch for the stars. So I'm interested in how you do that tension of vision versus reality and the tension of now versus I'll saving and investing for the future. We want to have a surplus so that we can, you know, ⁓ look towards future building programs and have reserves for future. how do you navigate? the now versus future tension and the vision versus reality tension. Dave Connett: Yeah, look, there's, there's two types of churches, Jack, there's the ones with more resource than vision, and the ones with more vision than resource, it is almost impossible. If you find it, you found a unicorn that has the same amount of resource and vision. ⁓ But if you've got a church with more resource than vision run, ⁓ it's not the church that you're going to grow in. It's not the church that's going to actually change the world. It's a comfortable church and ⁓ Jesus got some pretty there's types of Jack, there's the ones with more resource than vision, and the ones with more vision than resource, it is ⁓ almost impossible. If you it, you found a unicorn that has the same amount of resource and vision. But if you've got a church with more resource than vision run, ⁓ it's not the church that you're going to grow in. It's not the church that's going to actually change the world. It's a comfortable church and ⁓ got some pretty pretty nasty things to say about those that aren't willing to give up everything for the gospel. but if you've got a church with more vision than resource, then you're in a great space that creates tensions. So how you do it? pretty nasty things to say about those that aren't willing to give up everything for the gospel. so, but if you've got a church with more vision than resource, then you're in a great space that creates tensions. So how do you do it? You do have to, you do have to pay the bills in the current space. You do have to believe God for more. We're always praying. Like I am praying, not the first thing, but one of the first things I'll pray is I'm praying for good lifers who are included in on the journey. of ⁓ being the hands and feet of Jesus, of resourcing the house of God, of bringing tithes and offerings into the storehouse, not to Compassion Child or Benny Hinn Ministries or your favorite ministry, it is the local church. God wants to open the windows of heaven over people's lives and that is the pathway that he does it. He wants food in the house and that's the way that he does it. We are included in on that journey and to miss that ⁓ is to completely misunderstand the picture of tithes and offerings from Abraham all the way through to Jesus saying, don't neglect the tithe and then watching the New Testament church give way more than a tithe. And so ⁓ that does create tensions of future and present. ⁓ I am a firm believer that money follows ministry. If you minister, then the resources will come. And that's twofold. A, you're gonna build friendships and people with resources that go, I want to be a part of that. The other thing is that God will make sure that the resources get to you. Now, the tensions of saving for the future and then spending it now ⁓ is supremely difficult for a visionary. And both you two have done the journey with me for an extended period of time. ⁓ What I'm looking for on my committee management and staff in this area is a yes to the vision. ⁓ But how can we do that? we're standing with you pastor with the vision, which is my role. ⁓ It's biblical. It's the way that I see appoints leaders to be able to lead with vision. But the team is there to help the management and stewardship of those things. And to say, look, it's a yes, but is it the right timing until we get to these, pardon me, we get to these goals in finance. And I think it's I think it's incumbent upon the team, it's incumbent upon the pastor to be open and aware of the timings that we have to go, yeah, we do need to have a rainy day fund and we do need to have savings for a building fund and to be able to present that to the church with vision ⁓ as well. ⁓ I'm convinced that money follows ministry. I'm convinced that God wants to fund, wants to resource the church, that he wants a resplendent church and that there's an abundance for every good work. And I'm convinced that the journey of faith along there is actually the most beautiful thing ever. What we've got didn't come because we were good people, came because we've got a ⁓ wonderful, providential, protective God and we're going to continue to lean in on him. And when there are times to save, let's get in that way. And when there are times to spend because we're hitting that vision or those markers, then we go for it. You do that within a bunch of people who are yes to the vision. ⁓ But when it comes time to it, go, okay, visionary pastor, how are we gonna do this? Can we do this now? Is this the right timing? They are the tensions, they are the discussions. And you want to have godly people having those discussions. ⁓ That to me is a big part of the journey. So a lot of these things aren't black and white, it's tensions of both. Jack O'Brien: Hmm. Yeah, certainly. I love the rigor that goes into our church finances on a weekly basis, but particularly in this budgeting season, the rigor with department leaders, with us as a team, the committee management's oversight and approval, all that through our movement. so those layers of accountability are there that that gives me a lot of confidence and also something that's ⁓ been a journey for me personally. And I've really admired watching both in, you guys and others across our good life team is the ability to separate ourselves as stewards. You know, I'm a, I'm a tither. And so I could come into these budget conversations with like, this is how I want my tithe spent. I'd be very deliberate to take that hat off. And when I saw something that I think about, and this is maybe helpful for other good life is there when I give, I give to God. Dave Connett: Yeah. Jack O'Brien: And I trust Him implicitly with how that resource is spent. I have no influence or say over how my tithe is spent. And then when I step into this type of a room or into our committee of management, I am responsible for how God's resources are spent. I'm not spending my tithe, I'm responsible for how our church budgets those resources. And they're very distinct roles that you must separate yourself from. You've got to... Yeah. keep watch over your soul. I'm not interested in who gives what or what their intentions are. I have to, and I learned that from you Pastor David, I'm not looking at the line by line personal statements. It's our responsibility to steward what God has entrusted to us. How do you both navigate those? Because then the added complexity is like the church doesn't pay my wage, the church pays your wages. ⁓ So how do you handle that? Bex. Bex: and I think the easiest way to do it is something that I also learned from Ross Abraham years ago. And it was just once. Dave Connett: Just claim it, just don't attribute it to Ross, just claim it as yours. Bex: It's just a question, what's best for the church? That's the role. What is best for the church? And so it has nothing to do. So Rebecca Connott as a Christian ties, I pay my tithe and my offering to God, like you say, and then full stop, that's the end of that job. And then Rebecca Connott as the business manager, you know, then sits down and works out all the budgets for what is best for. for good life and what God has called us to do as a church. It has nothing to do with Rebecca Connaught, the Christian individual who tides. ⁓ so, even when, you know, and then, and I've even had to have these conversations with you, Jack, about, because obviously you and I have conversations about wages and including my wage. And I have to just go, this is not Rebecca Connaught speaking right now. This is business manager. This is where things are at. Da, da, da, da. What do you think? And, and you know. and we have that discussion that way. And for me, I actually feel like I'm talking about a different person. I'll actually I'll talk about myself in third person because I'm not, you know, that is I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about what is best for the church. And that completely removes myself out of the equation. And then, you know, you, Jack, as as our committee of management treasurer and the committee of management as a whole makes a final decision around all of that. ⁓ But it just makes it very easy when I'm looking at the church budget to take out my personal identity from it. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, spot on. And just to be clear, Dave, I'll come to you that the committee management sets the wages for our staff. Dave and Bex, they don't contribute to that conversation. And so we get external counsel from across our movement and others. And that's a committee choice. And the Connots step out, as does any other staff that's involved with any conflicts. Dave, did you have something to add there? Dave Connett: Yeah, look, the obviously I have the role of senior pastor and I'm paid full time for that. I mean, Bex is the same, but has the business management hat. Jack, you are voluntary within the church. But yet, look, everyone listening to this is a good life and knows that you run business. so the the interesting thing is I've seen plenty of times where over the years and dealing with pastors and churches where the business people who are giving more than the average Yogi Bear think that their advice, that their opinion should be weighed more than the average Yogi Bear. And that's where we teach very clearly. You give your tithes, they're non-discretionary. You give exactly what you said, Jack. I give and I give to the house of God. I give to God. I'm giving to God through the house of God. Now, if I'm given a role, like I walk alongside of that to go. what's best for the church. And Bex, you said it, Jack, you said it, but I've seen pastors that get twisted by the financial deal of the, I'm giving my life for this, and so I should be, then there's some form of, ⁓ I suppose, ⁓ expectation ⁓ over and above. I've seen that, but I've also seen probably more prevalent, I've probably seen business people in churches that have become, I won't give my tithe unless. which is ⁓ manipulation. ⁓ that has happened. Look, I might've faced that once or twice very early. And my responses were that clear that I will not be manipulated in this situation. And if that's what you're looking for in a church, this is the wrong church for you. Let me help you find one. But yeah, you can't be swayed by that. I give my tithes non-discretionary. I don't have a say over those. If I get a role in the management of finances, then the discussion is what's best for the church. Must be that clear. And if you don't, twists your soul. And so the people on our staff and the people on our committee management have been vetted for those things. These are people who can give a clear stewardship, leadership, management, support, armor-bearer response. Jack O'Brien: Yes. Dave Connett: because they keep the right spirit in those areas. It's so, so important because it twists every conversation that person has. Jack O'Brien: Right. Yeah. It's the, it's the spirit of mammon or it's pride. Ultimately it's entitlement, right? I give this therefore I should like man pride is, it is dangerous territory to be playing in, especially as it pertains to money. Dave Connett: Uh-huh. Bex: And it's control as well, you the only godly control is self-control, but you're seeking to control, you know, God's money. Like, whoa, no way. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, it's dangerous territory. Very good. Well, I trust this is insightful. You know, like I said, those who are not interested probably haven't even bothered listening. But those who are very interested, I'm sure would find this stuff fascinating because it's not like it's also normal for us. We kind of live in this world, but for the, everyone else, it's probably very interesting. And I hope it instills, I'm sure it will instill confidence in the way we steward resource. Dave, anything to round us out? Dave Connett: Look, I would just say when it comes to finances, we want to sure and this podcast is about stewardship in the middle of budget season and how we do it. But this is a spiritual thing. This is ⁓ if it for every good lifer who's listening for every non good lifer who's listening your tithe, which is a 10 % of income to the local house ⁓ is supernatural. It's spiritual. It's God's protection. He rebukes the devourer on your behalf. ⁓ I'm believing for every good life, for an abundance, for every good work, but I can only come into agreement with the faith that you've got with those steps. ⁓ The wealth of the wicked is stored up for the righteous, but you've got to actually follow the prerequisites that are in the Word of God. ⁓ And so what you can't do is the stuff that only God can do. You can't do the miracles. You can believe God for them, but you got to put yourself in the position for that to happen. ⁓ Does that give the church more resources to do more good? Yeah. And I'm not going to be apologetic about that. No, never. Not in the slightest. We're to put that money to good use. We're going to believe for an abundance for every good work. We're going to transform the world with the truth and the power. And God includes us in on the journey of that. So I'm believing for good life is to be prosperous, to be protected, to be covered, to be favored in the now. ⁓ and in the future and more than just with their finances, but I believe your tithe opens the windows of heaven over your life. And you can't make that happen any other way. Jack O'Brien: Mm-hmm. So good. Look, I'm excited. Yes, it's budget season and spreadsheets. Spreadsheets get me excited, particularly as it pertains to resourcing coming. ⁓ we're more common than you realize. You're the odd one, Dave. Dave Connett: You are an odd human, Jack O'Brien. This is odd. Bex: Yeah, I'm sorry, Dave, but I think you are actually the odd one. Jack O'Brien: Yeah, you are. Dave Connett: ⁓ look, we all know, we all know I'm odd, but in, this is an area that's odd. Jack O'Brien: Now I'm excited for what's coming for 2026. That's the key here. We're enamored by the numbers, we're enamored by the kingdom. So thank you for your vision collectively. Yes, as a church, we honor you, we appreciate your vision, your faithful stewardship for decades and onwards and upwards. Dave Connett: I'm in. Bex: So good. Thanks guys. Dave Connett: Thank you. Jack O'Brien: Thanks guys, we will see you on another podcast again. Who knows, maybe soon. Bex, thanks for joining us, gracing us with your presence. Hopefully you do it again. I don't think you can be a guest in your own church, unfortunately. But all right guys, see you next time. Dave Connett: Yeah, that was really good. Bex: Guest appearance. Dave Connett: Ciao. Bex: Yep.