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Book Club: Ghost Summer (Part 1) · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stephan
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: never told your prediction about her Idio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: And welcome to Feminist Book Club. We're a little late
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: on this one because we had so much good stuff
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: for February, and you know, with a small month, including
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: our return on with one of our favorite people's bridget
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: so we pushed this back a little bit. So we're
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: just going to say we're extending Black History Month and
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: letting it overlap with the Women's History Month, as it should.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: So we'll just we're just gonna blend the two from
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: February to March to fully celebrate all of that, and
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: that means we are going to do an amazing short
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: story collection.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: I'm so excited. I love short stories so much.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I did too, and I love when they have little
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: pieces that connect to each other, and this one does sometimes.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like they overlap in so many characters,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: including cats. Oh so at the very beginning of this,
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: let's go ahead and put content warning. There's a lot
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: of heavy subjects in this one. I will tell you.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: For me, it was a slower listen slash read because
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: of the intensity of the subjects. So we're talking about
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: enslavement and slavery. We're talking about death and murder, even
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: death of animals, sacrificing of animals, which, by the way,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I was not in a great.
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: Place for that.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: No, I will tell you this a lot of historical
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: contexts that bring a lot of sadness. So just as
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: a reminder, you know, if you need to take time,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: you should, but you should absolutely read this book when
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: you can get into a good headspace if you can.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Since it is a short story collection, you can read one,
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: put it down, come back, So you know you should
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: absolutely do this. And we are talking about Tanana Revedo
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: and her first short story collection, Ghost Summer, which was
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: published as the actual collection in twenty fifteen. But a
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: lot of these stories she's published previously, so I know
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: some of them goes as far back as two thousand
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: and even though that doesn't sound like a long time
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: ago to me, it actually was twenty five years ago,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: so oh dear gosh. So anyway, all of that to say,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: is amazing collection of works. But not only is she
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: a writer, she's a professor of black horror as well
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: as executive producer for documentaries such as A Horror Noir,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: A History of Black Horror, which I think was featured
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: on Shutter And she's also a screenwriter with her husband,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: who is also collaborated with her on several stories within
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: this collection.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: So really really great if you have the time. Like
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: I said, it is ghost stories, it is.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: It is very haunting. Even if it wasn't and it
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: was just like historical tales, it's still haunting.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it creaked me out, to be honest, and I
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: loved it, but it creeped me out. We've been trying
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: to read something from her for a long time because
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: she comes up on a lot of lists, and you
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: know we love horror here, right, so I was very
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: very excited to finally get to do it.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: She has another short story collection which we need to
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: revisit anyway, but yeah, so this is gonna be a
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: long detailed look at this one collection called Ghost Summer.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: What we're gonna do because there are they are short
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: stories and are kind of interlinked, but not necessarily interlinked
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: through theme. I mean, there's definitely a common three theme throughout.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: But with that, we're gonna do a synopsis of the
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: story and then we'll do the theme after that story immediately.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: So instead of doing our typical tell you the plot,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: tell you what's going on in the book, and then
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: do themes and have a discussion.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: We're gonna do it as we go per story.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: So let's write down the stories and do the themes.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: We're gonna start with the first story. We are going
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: through the order that she has them in the book,
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: including I believe the three towards the end, not the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: last three, but towards the end they are actually collect together.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll let you know which ones though.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: So we're going to start with the lake, and I'm
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: telling you it has hard and fast at the very beginning.
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: YI.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: So this first story again came.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Out with a bane, not only confronting us to the
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: horrors and suspense of a lake. And if you know
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: about han Lakes, you understand us from Georgia.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: We know about Hanted Lakes.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Lake Lanier is a legend in itself, as it should be,
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: and it has a lot of that dark history that
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Odo actually talks about often throughout her stories, but also
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: inside the mind of a sexual predator. So we have
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: teacher Abby Lafleur who just moved to the town of
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Gracetown and there she escaped from her previous area, moved
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: near lake to her new home. She was isolated, but
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: she had a new start as she made plans for
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the upcoming school year. She enjoyed her new home and.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: Her new lake.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: Though the town knows better than just swim during this time,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I think it's summertimes.
• 4:56
  Speaker 4: This summertimes, it's all summer.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, summertimes. You don't swim in the lake, she
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: goes for it anyway, even though she's not a great swimmer.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Soon she becomes an avid water person. All the while,
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: she has met her new students and has focused on
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: one specific boy, young boy. But at the same time,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: she's also become obsessed with the lake, and the lake
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: was becoming obsessed with her, or better possessing her. Her
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: feet got larger and she starts to grow webs on
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: her feet, and then there's this need for her to
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: be in the water. She even has dreams of it
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: going back. Soon she starts having the young boy whose
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: name is Derek, come over to help remodel the home,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: and I'm putting that quotes. She Soon he and his
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: cousin start coming to help and fix our home, which
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: also turns into them going and swimming in the lake,
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: even though the boys know better than to go swimming
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: in the lake. They're they're her blood less tests, and
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: she is contemplating on whether to give into her new
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: desire to eat one of the young boys. And that's
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: how it ends.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it ends with like a it sounds like that's
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: what's going to happen, because she's like, I can see
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: the scandal play out now. I could have avoided it
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: if I hadn't torn open his stomach coming right WHOA.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like she has this back and forth of like
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: he's someone's son, he hasn't lived his life, blah blah,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't Derek. The original boy actually was the
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: cousin who dared to go swim with him.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: It was so dou wrote this.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: At the end of each story, she gives a kind
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: of like a summary, a little bit about what has
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: been published in as well as some of her thoughts
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: or the reason that she wrote it, the theme. She
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: might have been given a prompt about what to write,
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: and this one she wrote This was using the prompter
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: theme of monsters perspective, and she talks about it being
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: a true predator. A sexual predator was the one she
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: used as her monster.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so here's the quote from do the theme stories
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: from the monster's point of view. Some of my favorite
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: stories have been written to themes from places I would
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: not have explored otherwise. The first monster that came to
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: mind a sexual predator. If only real monsters grew webbed
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: feet and gills.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: So, and I don't talk about the different perspectives because
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: obviously is a lot.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I don't want you to. I don't want to reread
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: the story to you. I want you to tell you
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: what it's about, but you need to go back and
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: read read. One of the perspective is that she has
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: a close co worker as well as a friend who
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: has been accused also of sexual advances to a young child,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: so being a child molester one of her students as well,
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: and she had to run away from that scandal, which
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: that scandal had that point of like eating up young
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: boys essentially, but yeah, and how she didn't want that
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: to follow her. She got away from that, but her
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: friend wasn't so lucky. Type of conversation. So it is
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: really interesting. It's an interesting perspective because we also don't
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: see oftentimes when teachers who are women who pray on young.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Boys are at c as predators.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Oftentimes they're seen as like fempatales type of thing, in
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: that level of being sexy and seductive and almost like
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: idolized in the it was really refreshing to see this
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: perspective of seeing her as a monster, as a predator
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: as she should if she is, you know, honing it
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: on young boys and plotting for these young boys. But yeah,
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: like I said, the first story hit with a bang.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I was well, damn, yeah, yeah, it sure did. And
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I have to say we didn't say this at the top,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: but one of the things I really liked about this
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: book is it's so many different genres, so many different things.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: So here I am, I'm reading this like, oh, okay,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: monsters and then different things.
• 8:49
  Speaker 4: A lot of different things happened.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: Right, And I love that too. I think she does
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: such a great job and overlaying what horror can be,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: whether it is h monsters or apocalyptic or ghosts yeah,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: or possessions.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's good.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: She also has a like common use of places and
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: lands and people. Yeah, so I don't always know because
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: like we're about to come into another story and it's
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: gonna also feature fictional place of Iceland, which is like
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: at the border of Florida, like near Georgia border, So
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: there's so many things here. She also talks about like
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: I two eighty five, which if you're from Atlanta, you know,
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: and like I'm like, I think I could find a
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: spot Atlanta Highway is like, yeah that exists.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very southern. A lot of it is very southern. Yes,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: so it's really interesting. We were like, hey, I don't
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: know where that is. Oh wow, yeah, why we were.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Talking about Anie's hometown even we are. But anyway, so
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: that's the lake. So she's got us with the very beginning.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: Of like, well, here you go.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: It's some deep things here, and we're jumping into the
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: next story called Summer. And in this one we have
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Danielle and her baby Lola, who have come to Grace Lane.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: While her husband Carl was gone with the military, she
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: came back and lived in her late grandmother's home.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Lola.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Lola, the baby seemed pretty fussy and who didn't mind
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: seeing her mom in pain, would laugh when things would
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: happen like grabbing our hair, grabbing our earrings, making her
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: bleed like so pretty fussy baby. At the same time,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: in this area, she's talking to all her people that
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: she knows, and they talk about deaths in the area.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Seven bodies have been unaccounted for, and the mccormicks an
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: old white family with a lot of rumors around that
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: area that they are involved in this. So when I
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: say old white family, this family is the quintessential owned slaves,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: had money from that era and was not apologetic. So
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: that's that. We have Odetta, who is Danielle's older cousin
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: who kind of helps her throughout this time and one
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: of the only family members that she gets along with.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: And she talks about the swamp leeches, which here's quote
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: from that swamp leeches are different. It's just the name
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Mamma used to call them by. You could call them
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: lots of things. Mostly people call them demons, I guess.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So these leeches possess you. And though Danielle doesn't really
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: believe her, soon after we find that Lola has been
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: possessed to the point like the tail goes that something
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: comes to get them. Lola the next day seems weirdly perfect,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: and when she's changing her diaper, a leech comes out
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: and she's like, oh my god. So she's screaming and
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: like the like of course, all the normal reactions I
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: think you would have after seeing that, and Lola becomes
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: a whole different baby who adored her mother, or pretends
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: to as I'm like, she knows this what normal babies
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: should be doing. And Danielle goes to Adetta and Odana's
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: uncle to get help, and they are like, they really
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: treat this like, eh, it's not a big deal and
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: it's not your typical demon possession where they're trying to
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: do anything bad. No one knows why. They just stay
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: around for maybe a couple of years and that's it, and.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Then they just leave.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: I thought it was just summer.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Was it summer? I thought it was a couple of years.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: It could be, but it's summer is when it happens.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it goes away.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: It goes away, and there's nothing that happens to the baby.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Lola is fine. The child may never remember, but that
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: the entire time, the child will be well behaved, who
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: acts like they adore the mother. She even can repeat words,
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: so all these different things soon, but you know, Danielle's
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: freaking out. She wants a remedy whatever, but the remedy
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: is not like anything. She knows about, so she doesn't
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: quite know what's in this remedy that the uncle has.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: So Danielle gets.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: It though, and takes it with her, and she debates
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: whether or not to give it to her at all.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: So yeah, because it's nice because baby.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: So du speaks about her own experiences of motherhood and
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: it's many challenges, but also opens up to the histories
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: of enslaved people and the many who went missing. So
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: that is also a theme that we're going to go
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: back into in the next story. But just like and
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: I think we've had like the historical amounts of people.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of the stories from uh, Mississippi
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: and Alabama, and I'm sure there's some in Georgia, but
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: for some reason, I hear the Mississippi Alabama versions like
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: mass graves of enslaved people who just went missing and
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: disappeared that were just covered late Land near like there's
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: tales of so that I do know people from. I
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: do know things from Atlanta. Yes, from Georgia, late Land
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: near like that that the entire area, which was mainly
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: like a black community, was flooded and so there's literal homes,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: literal houses under that lake.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Uh so there's a horror movie about it. I don't think, well,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, so I don't know if it's
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: any good. But there is a horror movie about it,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: and there is a podcast about it that my friends
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: listen to. And it's funny because they pronounced it like
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: the meear. They did something interesting with the pronunciation. But yes,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: it has been discussed.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: I think it's a French name, right.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: I always thought it was, but you know.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: It is, so we definitely don't pronounce it right.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: No. That's the funny thing is you know when you're
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: from a place and it's not like you're pronouncing it correctly.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: No, we're definitely not.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: But I mean we had that moment we're going to
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: talk about your hometown, Dalanago. He says, yeah, though correct pronunciation.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: I was like, I never knew that, and that makes
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: a lot of sense.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but that's just not how we pronounce it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: But with all all of that, that does come up,
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: and I think with something that we need to know
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: because do thus use her historical own history as well
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: as the area's history of enslavement and the people who've
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: been mistreated and abused or ousted throughout her stories and
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: though that's not the central theme obviously, that's definitely a theme.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: That's something that needs to be said, that needs to
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: be told, and she does a great job in intertwining
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: those tales, so very good.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: But yeah, this one is about like what would you do?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And she talks about her own experiences like b it, man,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that baby you stop crying for
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: a minute, I'm not being okay, And it didn't really
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: harm them, why not?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's also like I think the baby just
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't really need to sleep or eat.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: It's just quiet, like happily staring at the mother and
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: just staring. That would unnerve me, just having them staring
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: me the whole time, smiling smart.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And it was interesting how Odetta and the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: uncle were so it's fine whatever. And at first Danielle
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: was so freaked out, but by the end of the day.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: She was like, oh, nap, like she's not fussying, and
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: her hair is looking good and she looks like a
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: really well behaved baby. As before people would give her
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: looks and this then she was getting compliments all of
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: a sudden about how great the baby she had, and
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: you know that does feed a lot. Like I get
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: that because it does feel like like just a person
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: as who take care of children and have children as
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: a nanny, Like even though it was obvious that they
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: weren't mine, Like if they misbehaved, it embarrassed me, and
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I would give them the mom look and they would
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: calm down, do not embarrass me.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: So like you understand that level.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Of like needing that peace because you get judged as
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: a mom or a caretaker if the baby is unhappy
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: for some god for God forbid, make a loud noise.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: You know, like an understanding moment of like.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is peaceful, if I could just have this.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: Because she also talks about the fact that her husband
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: is gone, but when her husband is around, the baby
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: is so much better.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she really thinks the baby hates.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Her and she goes to be postpartum.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: She talks about that a little bit too, but dismisses
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: it pretty quick like no way, I'm too strong for that.
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: Right, A lot of themes in that short story. It's
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: not even that short.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: None of these stories are that short, but definitely, like
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: I believe the next one is actually could be qualified
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: as a novella, and I think was a novella.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's much longer.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: So this one's a little longer, a little more detailed.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I will say this one got me like I was
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: like seated where I had to be like I can't
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: get up yet I have to keep listening. I can't
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: do this other thing, so I have to finish the story.
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: It was one of those.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: So it is titled Ghost Summer, and we meet Davey Stevens,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: a twelve year old boy whose mom is from God
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and father from the US, Gracetown specifically, his mom had
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: decided to go back to Ghana to see her family
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: for a few months, while he and his younger sister,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Nima went with his dad to visit his grandparents in Gracetown. Now,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: yes they went with him, but all of this was
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: weird set up in which Davies and Nima had a
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: choice of whether or not to go to Ghana with her
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: his mom, or go with their father, and they chose
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: to go with their father. They had reasons and were
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: about to find out the reasons, but it almost looked
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: like his mom was hurt that she chose they chose that,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: but she accepted it. And it's like the way that
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: they said goodbye was odd. He was just kind of like,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I honestly expected her to die in a plane crash
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: or something.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: Or that she was already a ghost. I thought she was.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: She was our ghost.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: The way it began, yeah, I was like, what's happening?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: But it did not turn that that way. But the
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: way it was set up, I was ready for it. Yeah,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: it wasn't, but he was excited.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: His older sister, who was also kind of around, was
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: heading to Northwestern for the summer, so she didn't carry
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: either way.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: He is excited to go.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Not because it was fun, because there were ghosts and
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: he wanted to be able to record and prove the
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: existence of ghosts. And so during this time, it turns
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: out everybody, any child that is under twelve can see ghosts,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: but after that age you no longer see them. And
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: so his sister, his older sister, even talks about it.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: She had seen them as well, and she knew what
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: he was talking about, and she believed him. Other adults
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: oftentimes would believe him as well, not necessarily the grandmother.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: The grandmother didn't remember anything. I don't think she was
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: actually from there. I can't remember. His grandfather was and
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: grandfather wanted to leave and run away, and then they
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: did for a while, but then came back. I think
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: they went to Miami and came back. His father was
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: not there during his childhood. They had left and because
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: the grandfather refused to be there with him, So this
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: is kind of that setup. But when they retired, they
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: decided they wanted more land, more space, like all that,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: and came back to Graystown.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: So all that.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: However, at Gracetown he discovered that his mother and grandfather
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: were possibly separating. He says the D word as a divorce,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: and that he and his sister maybe moving to Ghana.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: But soon he was distracted by the ghosts. So all
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: these overlaying traumpas were happening. He was both excited about
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: ghosts and then scared about the ghosts, but also hearing
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: about the divorce that's happening at his father breaking down
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: and possibly losing the children. All those things were happening.
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: At the same time. He had ran into three young
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: boys in the woods and it looked like they were
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: burying their dog, so he tried to He got the
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: attention of the youngest one, but they didn't react much.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: He just kind of looked and looked away. So after
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: that he was like, you know what, I'm gonna go.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna go, So he leaves. Soon after, he heard
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: what sounded like a dog sniffing at his doorway. So
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: bedtime has happened. He's in bed and all of a
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: sudden he's hearing dogs sniffing at the door. In fear,
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: he tried to stay quiet, but the next day he realized, oh,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I missed my chance. So he decided he needed to
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: see and prepare himself with dog biscuits and flashlights and
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: video recorders and other recorders and all that stuff, so
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: he was ready. He was on the ghost hunt. He
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: decided to stay up in the living room. But during
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: all of this, Niema decided she wanted to join as well,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: so he let her and she did a pretty good job.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: At first, she was whiny, but then soon she was
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: into it. That night, not only did they hear the dog,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: but they also saw three young boys walking through the
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: waters away from dog. The dog they felt the water
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: that night, they felt the dogs heard the boys and
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: tried to follow them, and Davy was able to capture
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: an image through a doorway. All the while, we find
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: out that there's a redevelopment near the McCormick land. So
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the mccormicks are back. This is the white family that
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: had had slaves on their land and would not admit
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: they did anything wrong. But grandma, his grandma is against
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: us and have attended the meetings to try to stop
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: this redevelopment. We learned that there was a dark history
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: of the land and that is why conversations bodies being
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: missing and buried in this area has been around for
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: a while, and during a faithful visit to the library,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Davy discovers the history of what was happening. Three young
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: boys had gone missing, and many blamed that on the mccormicks.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: The young boy's father, Isaiah Timmins, a black man who
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: was somewhat successful in the area and had dreams of
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: leaving Gracetown and being with his brother in New York
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: with his family. So because he was somewhat successful and
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I don't mean really successful, he was able to work
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and get money and save some money and have land,
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: and that was successful to them. Many of the white people,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: including the mccormicks, really hated him and took advantage of him,
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: like wouldn't pay for things wouldn't pay for his services,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: would like all those things. But soon there was a
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: fire that took Timmins's barn. So there was a barn fire.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Timmins decided they needed to leave immediately. Isaiah was sure
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: it was McCormick who had done this out of spite
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: and racism and hate, and he just wanted to get
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: his family out for safety. He was like, I'm so
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: grateful that no one got hurt, but this is a warning.
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: This is a warning we have to go.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: And as they were preparing to go, the three boys
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: disappeared without a trace, which ended with the murder of
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Isaiah and his appearance and a murder of a lot
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: of black men in the area because he had, in
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: his fit of trying to find the boys, he had
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: pointed a gun at McCormick, and that enough was a
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: death sentence for him and other men other black men
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: in that area. So Essie, Isaiah's wife, is in mourning
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: and she stays behind to try to search for the boys,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: and during the time she also has a young daughter
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: with her, but like the young daughter kind of get
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: cast aside because she is in such mourning and trying
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: to find the boys. So that's the story of the
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Timmins kids. At the beginning of the story, we find
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: out that where his grandparents' house was, it was a
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: swamp area, so that's why the water comes into play,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: and that's why they fill it. So with that his
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: time with his grandfather and and father, they proceeded to
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: do their hunt. The waters returned and the boys and
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: the dogs. However, once again the older men the adults
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: could not see or feel any of this. It was
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: just Nima and Davy explaining what was happening. As they
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: were going about during their hunt, they hear a horrible
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: streak and stop the search, to the point that all
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: of them the that Neimo got very scared and so
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: they stopped as well as Davey obviously, but Nimo was
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: the focus point. So the next day, even though Grandma
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: wasn't happy, they talked to her into allowing them to
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: have another hunt. So she was like, you know what,
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna do this, I'm gonna give you more supplies,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: including a rain jacket and a more powerful light. She's like,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna do this, you're gonna have stacks they had.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yes, Grandma prepped them up. That night, the
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: four went searching again. This time the noise and the
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: shouts and things were so loud that the windows in
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the house cracked, two of them.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: Grandpa was not happy.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: He didn't hear anything, but saw obviously as a window cracking,
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: and he was like, what are you doing, like yelling
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: at the quite funny almost and Grandpa was like, I'm
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: done because at this point, the ghosts and the dog
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: there's a dog in this whole thing, have gone outside
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: of the house, and he says, I'm not leaving. I'm
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: gonna sit here. Y'all do your thing. So Dad agreed,
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: which was very surprising for Davy to go and follow
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: them into the woods and they go together. Nima, Davy
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: and the Dad go into the woods. And at this
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: point we know that the barn fire from years ago
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: actually wasn't because of the mccormicks. No, we learned that
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: it was an accident that the three young boys had
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: caused while they were cooking and having a fire up
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: a food fire. They were afraid to admit it and
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: thought it would be better for Dad to believe it
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: was the white man, you know, like, you know what,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: We're gonna let them be blamed. They probably would have
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: done it anyway, so we're gonna go ahead and say, yeah, sure.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: But when they found out they would be leaving the
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: next day, the oldest one wanted to say goodbye to
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: his girl. So we have this conversation about him, like
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: need to say bye, it's his girl, you know, all
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: these things. So he snuck out with the other two
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: who had begged to come with him that night. Unfortunately,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: they had to cross McCormick land, which was guarded by
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: McCormick's German shepherd, and soon the boys ended up being
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: chased by this very giant, mean dog, who they said
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: the mccormicks had trained to hate black people. So as Davy,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: his father, and Nima followed the ghosts, they realized that
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: they too were being followed by this dog. They were
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: being now hunted by this dog. Nima is bitten by
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: the invisible dog, and slowly their father, who was not
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: able to who has never heard of these ghosts, or
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: had never heard or seen these ghosts, all of a
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: sudden can hear them as well, and he can hear
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: the dog. He's freaking out, He's like, what is going on?
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And he can fill the waters for the first time,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: and as they tried to escape, the dog going the
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: same direction as the three young boys the ghosts, Davy
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: is attacked as well. Dad attacks the dog with a
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: shovel and they try to escape. Davy then falls into
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: a giant hole which but is saved by roots that
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: his jacket gets caught on. And this hole was from
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: like an older building that had caved in a long
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: time ago. Their Davy c's three sets of eyes at
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: the bottom of the darkness in that hole, just staring
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: back at him. His Dad was able to get him
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: out of that hole, thank goodness. And then they were
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: still running away from that dog, so they ran to
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: a nearby.
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: Barn and locked the doors.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: So the next day they are found by rescue crew
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: and they tell everybody what they discovered, including Davy saying,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: I know where the boys are and I know what
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: happened to them. A crew came and dug up the
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: hole where they found the bodies of the three boys,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: a mystery that had finally been solved. The boy's sister,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: who had stayed to get justice, watched as they pulled
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: out the remains and as Davy is leaving because they
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: had come back to witness this the digging. They all
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: give him a standing ovation for his heroism.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: And this one do has a real interesting connection to
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: she said, this story and the previous one Summer are
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: a kind of odd prophecy. In twenty thirteen, I received
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: a call from the Florida Attorney General's Office informing me
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: that my late mother, Patricia Stevens Dew, had an uncle,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Robert Stevens, who probably was among dozens of children buried
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: on the grounds of the Doziers School for Boys, a
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: reform school in Marianna, Florida, where boys were tortured and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: killed for generations. I had never heard of the Dozier
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: School buried children or Robert Stevens, my great uncle, who
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: died there in nineteen thirty seven at fifteen. But months
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: later my father, husband, son and I would go to
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: the excavation site in the woods in Marianna, where University
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: of South Florida researchers sifted through the soil in search
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: of bones, just like I had written in Ghost Summer
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: five years earlier.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Right, that's such an interesting and interesting like what, yeah,
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: this was so personal to her, but she'd written this beforehand,
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Like wow, and then that takes place in Florida. Yeah,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: this should be too shocking, but yeah, that whole story
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: was intense, and I was also like what happened in
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out a lot of it, Like I said,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: was like, is this the ghost?
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Is this?
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Because like there's a bit where Nima is sleeping in
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: a room with all these old dolls by the way,
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: hele no, hell no, I would never. I would never,
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: and thinking that they may be coming to life or whatever.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: So I thought maybe that was a point of the story.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: Nope, that was not. That was literally like just a
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: like distraction.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: A red hair it was. Yeah, And also we should
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: mention the dad. Davy's dad is a producer film producer,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and he was documenting all of this and planning on
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: making it into a documentary. And so at the end
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: he's like, now, if we make this, I can go
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: to Ghana with y'all. Maybe we can you and me
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: and your mom can repair a relationships.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: So right, so he does not want to get divorced,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: but the mom has been alone so often.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she was weren't kih so much with that.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: Documentary and he's not like they made made sure we
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: knew he wasn't making money, it was just minimal. So
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: this if he could sell this story well, which he
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: was doing, and he's like he said, us, me and you,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: Davy and Davy, who had been trying to do some
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: type of documentary, could be together.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: So oh.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: And it talks about how he had to grow up
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: so quick just to learn about this history and seeing
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: this conversation and that he did really like unravel a
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: huge burden that had been over the town.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: But it was such a sad tale.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: It was very sad, and and it.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Also relates, yes, back to I think in the past
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: two stories we've discussed, they mentioned the finding of the bodies, right,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: and so this is sort of the not necessarily resolution
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: to that, but a resolution to part of that.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Right, Why there was soondy So the explanation of so
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: many bodies were that when essentially they called it a
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: riot because the black men were trying to search for
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: these boys and then they all got murdered by the
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: white men daring to ask questions. Yeah, and that's where
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: they were buried.
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: It was really sad, and it's you know, so like
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: it was told. She does such a great job at
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: writing from the perspective of a child, which happens a
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: couple of times throughout, and it was really sad when
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: you're reading from the three boys and you, as the reader,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: know something bad happens to them.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: You're not quite sure what it is yet.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: You don't know why he disappeared, but.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: But you're reading their kind of perspective, and when it's
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: just such an innocent like they started to fire like cooking,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: but they don't want to in trouble, so they don't
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: say anything, right, it's just so sad.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: And had they known how that would end, they probably
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: would have rather told the truth.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but they probably would have tried to still leave.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: But but yeah, exactly, that's what they would have.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: Gone through all of that so quickly.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: And then there was a bit that I did leave
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: out that does haunt me, because this story will haunt me,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: like I will have memories of this story for a while.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: But the mom searching for her son, and at one
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: point that she did search in that area, she just
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: didn't know and they think the uh. They talked about
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: how each one died slowly in that hole, and I
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: was like, that's unnecessary, dude, that was unnecessary.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: I break their neck. Don't do this to me.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I love it the top. She there's a forward by
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: a friend of hers and it's like, she's such a
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: lovely woman and she's so happy.
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: So did I read her work? And I'm like, oh,
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: she's got a dark side.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: I think all that she's like, she's so kind and
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: then but but yeah, so it is a compelling story
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: and again very haunting. It.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: It freaked me out, like the just the the way
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: the imagery unfolds, of like feeling the water and it's
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: going up and rising and the dog is barking loudly.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: The young man and Davy being like I can't, I can,
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: I can. My head is like almost like my neck
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: is in the water. I can't do this much longer,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: like it was the whole thing. Yes, so there's that one,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: and I say, you can find that as a novella somewhere.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: M m. But you should definitely buy this. Oh, by
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: the way, I also checked it out to the library.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: Oh and this story was a great a great, like
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: oh to librarians, because that library.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: She's like, maybe it's Maybell, right, but yeah, so you
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: I found this at our local library, So I'm sure
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: you can find this if you want to go read
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: this you should, yes, And the next story we kind
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: of would alluded to a few times. It's called Free
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Jim's Mind and literally talks about how it's based in Delanaga, Georgia,
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: which you have probably hard us talk about because Annie
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: is from Delanica, Georgia. We meet Lottie along with her husband,
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: trying to escape, so this is during the times of
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: enslavement here in the US. She had been enslaved and
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: was pregnant and she knew she had to escape in
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: order to save her baby. Like the dude who owned
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: her essentially said I'm gonna kill your baby. She ran
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: to find her uncle, who had been freed and had
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: owned a mine. She had hoped he would help her escape,
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: like he tried to actually buy her previously. They refused,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: but she knew that he her he wanted to help her,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: or so she thought he had bought a powerful luck
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: pouch that may have helped him be freed, so it
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: says Mojo powerful Mojo. Soon they found him, but he
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: was unhappy, saying he could not help her and that
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: she doomed herself. And William, which who is her husband
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: who is younger than him, and also I believe Native American,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: but they had been ousted at the same time, so obviously,
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: but Jim did hide them in his minds after like
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: a whole back and forth of exchange about how they
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: were fools and they were not doing this ridiculous thing
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: and that his luck came with a cost, and like
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: it wasn't a good thing, like all these things, saying,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: you know, you were fools. But he takes them down
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: to the mines. It's like you have to sleep in
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: here for a while, and that he would be back
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: for them the next day with a wagon and some
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: money and some food is in them on But in
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: this minds there are creatures, lots of different things, maybe coyotes,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: but there's one big creature that William sees immediately, and
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: it is a giant frog like creature that has been
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: of like legacy to the Native Americans, Kadawa Lassie William
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: saying that he has to be a man, he has
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: to protect his family and that those who in the
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: story there's a warrior who kills it and conquers and
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: like helps his his women and families, And he says,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I've got to do this. So he tries to fight it,
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: but all of a sudden he's gone. He disappears. Lottie
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: filling alone, hoping that he will come back, counting counting
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: how long he can hold his breath and thinking that
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: he may come back, is also attacked by this well
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: Lossie and she fights it off, stabbing it with her
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: dull knife that William had given her previously, and she
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: just injures it and it goes away.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: She just says theres and prays that he doesn't come back.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: The well Lassie doesn't come back, also hoping that maybe
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: William will. But soon her uncle comes down to get her.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: He never questioned where William was and took her to
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the wagon.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Good story.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, He basically said, one of you is not going
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: to come out. That's how this luck thing is going
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: to play out for you, like good.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: Luck so and this do rights.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: The story was inspired by a trip to a golden
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: in Delanaga, Georgia, where I first heard that a black
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: man had owned a local gold mine. The mine was
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: called free Gem's Mind, and he was indeed named James
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: waclair Uh. And she said, during my research, I learned
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: that the little known Georgia gold Rush displays the Cherokee
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: people and set them on the Trail of Tears. I
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: will say we did learn about that, because Georgia has
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: infamy when it comes to the Trail of Tears and
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: the Cherokee Nation and Cherokee people. But Adie, you were saying,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: you actually know and you've gone to this place, right,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know this existed.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, So Delanaga is it's like where the Gold Rush
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: was centered in Georgia, right, And so we have a
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: gold Rush museum that a lot of people in Georgia
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: ended up going to. A lot of students end up
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: going to. It's the center of our square, our town square.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And then we have you can visit some of the
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: gold mines. There's like one that's really popular, and we
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: also have a big event called gold Rush and it's
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: our biggest tourist event and you can like fake pan
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: for gold. But yes, I did know about this. I
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: think in middle school in Georgia studies that we.
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: Had a whole kind of here's what Delanaga is all about.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Here's the history of Delannaga specifically, we learned about we
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: learned about that. I told you I actually wasn't sure
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: if it's true, if it was true, just because you
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: know some of those stories in small towns. You're like,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know how true this actually is.
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: So when I was reading this, I was like, oh,
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: oh right.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the the like kind of weaving in of
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: that with the Trail of Tears, because we did learn
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: about that as well, and the Cherokee people. And also,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I have to say, there is a line about how
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: to pronouncedalanaga in there, and I felt really bad because
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: I actually did a whole paper on how to pronounce
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: dalanga and I can't remember. I did write about how
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: the Cherokee pronounced it, but I probably I probably messed
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: it up.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I did read that, like obviously reading it
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: versus hearing it. So Doue does read most of these tills,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I think, and she does pronounce it. And I was like, oh,
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: well that makes sense. I can't remember it either because
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I'm so ingrained with delaniga. Yeah, the linga or something
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: like that. It was very like it starts with a
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: tea too, linga or something like that. Yeah, it's really
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: sad because a lot of the roots are gone because
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: of colonization. And yeah, I could understand why you wouldn't
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: believe it because it's still a red state, Like it's
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: still a red area, and it's very conservative and hasn't
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: always been so, so it would be hard to believe
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: that they would allow, even if they are afraid, black
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: person to own.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Some thing here.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, especially as valuable as a mine.
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people can connect to this,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: especially if you're from the South or a red state.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: But you know that story, like especially the Trail tears,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I can see it in my head when I was
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: reading this, and they were.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: Like two paragraphs.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: That story about Freedom's mind was one really and you know,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: it was like very it was still centered on white
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: people because it was very like, yeah, this black person
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: had a mind, how nice we were?
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Like because also remember we also grew up in and
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: still this honestly teaching enslavement as being states rights, so
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: teaching the Civil War being about states rights, teaching the
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: fact that the enslaved people wanted to be enslaved because
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: they were provided by for by their owners, Like that
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: was the things that we were taught. Not only that
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: that they sold themselves. It really wasn't white people, it
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: was their own people, right, Like all of these narratives
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: that are very false and very like white saviorism. So
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: for us to hear this or like, that's probably not true.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: And also the trail of tears was literally like, yeah,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: it was really sad, But they don't talk about the deaths,
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: the murders, the rapes, that like kidnapping, all of that.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: They don't talk about the decimation.
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: They're like, they just sadly walked with food provided for
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: they re guarded by soldiers.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Nah.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: No, so like all of these things that are what
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: we grew up with being told it really wasn't that inhumane.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: People make it sound worse than it is, and I'm like, well,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: owning people.
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: That sounds bad.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: Importing people and then trading them off, it sounds pretty bad.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: But they try to distance those bad guys, those bad
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: white people.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Versus what really happened.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: And they're like, so when we talk about things like wow,
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: we don't truly believe, especially if we've been around long
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: enough to know that how bad history has been skewed
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: to make them look better than being white people. Yeah,
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: it's hard to believe. So I wonder I would. This
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: is why I'm surprised more than anything else, And I'm
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: sure this is also why I do put that as
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: he had to sacrifice so many other things in order
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: to have this.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which I thought was a really interesting take.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I'll have to go back. I mean, I still visit
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: semi regularly and see if I can.
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: Does already actually own that property? Now?
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: I'm sure it's like a tourist.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wonder I feels like it in someone's
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: family lineage, like is it true? Because in Jim's family heritage,
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: like wouldn't they still own it? And when can they
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: validate this history? That's the whole yea'll see what we
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: were saying. I knew this was gonna be a whole
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: conversation about this one.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean when I was like, oh, no, what's said?
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, oh, there it is. Oh anyway, content.
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: I'll investigate, investigate.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: So we're at the knowing is the next story that
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: we get to and we meet a young girl named
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Nikki who talks about her having to constantly move with
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: her mother, her mama, and they end up in Miami
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: Beach where they met Rosa, who hired Mama to tell
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: fortunes and help out the shop. So essentially, her mom
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: has this gift in which is she can stare at
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: see someone's death and they know the time. She knows
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: exactly the date, and at times she knows what happens,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: how how they die. And she meets Rosa, the mother
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: who she says, your aunt is about to die essentially
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: when she does, and I believe her aunt's the one
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: that is doing the fortune telling. At this point, she's like,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: when she does, you should hire me. Yeah, yeah, like
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: we find this out. And then she comes, and Rosa
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: does come, who speaks mostly Spanish, but like understands enough
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: to hire Nicki's mama. So Nicki's mama has been through
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: so many things. She just yells out dates has gone through. Like,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I knew everybody's death, I think I
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: would not be completely whole. Like I think there'd be
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: so much trauma just knowing people's deaths. So she obviously
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: goes through some things, to the point that at one
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: point Nikki gets removed by CPS and then she finally
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: gets her back. All these things, so they often move
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: when things happen, when when things fall apart, or when,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: as Nicki says, Mama has one of her.
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: Bad days, they leave.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: So they're there in Miami and they're doing pretty well
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: thus far as she works with Rosa and they're pretty
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: much like best friends.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: They actually get along really well.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: As I said, Mama could see people's death and she
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: often did so with or without being asked, so sometimes
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: she would just abruptly tell it.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Really be upsetting.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: In a fight with Rosa, she tells her her death
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: even though Rosa has already said, don't do this, do
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: not tell me.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Stop. So because of all of that, it kind of
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: gets her fired. Though Nicki is.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: Unhappy, she loves and supports her mama, especially knowing Rosa
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: was commenting about her parenting about the fact that, you know,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Nicki was not getting all these things and needed these things,
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: and so Mama was not happy. And in that fight,
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: that's what she used against hers her death date. As
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: see we see them resolved to leave. Nicki says, you're
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: taking care of me, Mama, better than anybody, surea, Mama said,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: still looking at me. And then Nicki says, I got
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: to until May twelfth, two thousand and five, I said,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: squeezing her hand again, and Mama just closed her eyes.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: So essentially she got in a fight with Niki. Mama
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: did and she said and I'm gonna and you're gonna
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: be gone this date and told her her the date,
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: which was May twelve, two thousand and five.
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: Of her think she's gonna be fifteen.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: She's gonna be young, Yeah, fifteen. So she was like,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: and that's where Nikka just accepted it. I was like, yeah, okay,
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: I got till that point.
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: And it was a really interesting look at how that
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: knowledge affects some people, because some people saw it as like,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I only have this much time, so it's
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: almost a newly some life, oddly enough, and then some
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: people that're just devastated even if they have a long
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: time left.
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: And so here's what Deu said about it. This story
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: speaks to the fear of mortality that underlies much of
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: my work. Nicki's mature perspective on his own brief life
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: gives me strength.
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: Which, yes, we've been saying Nicki as her, but I've.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Been saying that I really thought of as her.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: I realized just in my head the entire time, I
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: didn't really know that I knew a young boy talks
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: to them.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: For some reason, I thought it was a young girl. Okay,
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: that was on me.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Nicky's tricky because it could be like, I know, Nikki's
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: usually with an eye at the end, so I guess
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: that could have been my clue.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: But in my head it was, Well, some of these
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: it is because it's when it's told from a this case,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: from the perspective of a child, it's not as easy
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: to pick up on.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: So I get you anyway.
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: But yeah, so obviously I'm talking about death and trying
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: to deal with death, and like the mama talks about
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: how she predicted all of her family's death and even
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: when they did try to avoid it, they still died
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: maybe in a different way.
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that kind of got her cut out of
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: her family, and her mom especially was not talk to her, yeah,
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: because she kind of blamed her for all of it.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, she'd lost two children and her husband.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, she was going to live a long time,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: and I'm happy about that. And then the other fact
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: is that you can die earlier than the date.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: Someone yeah got a free date because.
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: He thought he was immortal till that point.
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and then he got killed.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So all these things like on this level
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: of like these powers and these understandings. So oh, it
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: was one of those that I'm like, oh my god,
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, did she say what I think she said?
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: They did he just say?
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Now it becames that perspective in my head.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is like an xpin power.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: I would be like, why did I have.
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: To get the most useless power? And I don't want it?
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm just gonna be upset and never attached to
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: people ever.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, I think that is a plot of a
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: lot of I mean, clearly we think about that a lot.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: When are we gonna die?
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: But I know I think it's a plot of a
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: movie and a music video where somebody can see like
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it does not to get it as a movie.
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: I've seen that.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot of death in this one obviously.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Uh So we go on to the next hill, which
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: is like daughter, this one was a different one, Like
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: this one was like such a different genre that it
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: thrown me off.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: So let's start.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: This is a haunting tale of motherhood. We meet Denise
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: and Paige. Denise had gone through years of childhood trauma
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: but always had her friend Paige. As she got older,
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: Denise decided she wanted a perfect life that she couldn't
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: have before. I had a whole plan was able to
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: get money to be a part of the new copycat
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: babies program, so essentially being able to clone whatever in
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: order to have children. And this was cloning yourself, I
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: guess if you're the mother to have a child for
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: this child. Three months later it was banned, but Denise
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: she got her baby, and right under that ban. Many
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: call the creations soulless and unethical, so these were soulless babies,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: and many people wanted this destroyed, this thing ideal destroyed,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: and though Denise did try, the perfect life didn't work. Sean,
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: who answered an Internet ad post, had left her. They
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: had gotten married with this idea, not necessarily because they
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: liked each other, but was an arrangement, and the niece
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: and Nisi, who was just the name of her child,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: are all alone. And Denise couldn't stand to be with
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: this child. She couldn't stand to see her, she couldn't
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: stand to be around her, and asked Paige, the friend,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: to come and get her. Paige was also very much
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: against this as well, and actually very freaked out by
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: this child because this is an identical replacement of her
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: childhood friend who had gone through so much trauma so
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: all the things that she remembers about her childhood with
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Paige and even with Denise, and even Denise talking about
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: how she had wished she was Paige's sister instead of
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: living the life that she had, so all these things,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: and even to the point like when Denise was like,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: you come and get her. I don't know what I'm
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: going to do to her. So she had made a
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: promise to their mother, yeah, to Page's yes, that she
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: would take care of that child because she I think
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: Page's mother knew something.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: This was not going to go well.
• 51:07
  Speaker 2: So she did follow that through and went to go
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: pick up the child. The child was very upset and confused,
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: and she was like, where's daddy, And the conversation was
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: like he was. The child was so freaky that the
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: father Sean would beat on her as well, and that
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: she looked at this young replica and would see the
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: haunted sadness and could understand why Denise could not look
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: at her anymore because it was a reflection of her
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: own sadness and to see it replicated was too much.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: And so she takes the child and that's the end.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: It was. I had to go back three times. I
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: was like wait, what, who's Nissi and who's Denise? Because
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: when Denise was younger, they called her Nisi. So they
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: would go back and forth, and I was like, I'm confused.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know what's happening. Not realizing act, I was like, okay,
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: they are talking about cloning, right, is this cloning?
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: And in it At the end.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Du says it was inspired by goat cloning and asking
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: why would someone want.
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: To clone themselves or herself? And I was like, yeah,
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: why would you?
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: Why? What'd you? I loved this one.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: This one freaked me out more than like the ideal
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: freak me out.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: It was tricky and it did not go I tell
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: you that copycat baby thing came out of nowhere?
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: Does this fit anywhere else in here?
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: But yeah, the story, I was like, wait, whoa Okay, what.
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: Are we talking about?
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: But I was confused by the name for I was
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: like wait what Anyway, By the end, it was so
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: creepy because Paige was almost she was seeing like her
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: childhood friend, Like she was not seeing this child as
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: a separate person, and she was seeing like that is
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: my childhood friend. And Denise had wanted to give herself
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: this perfect life which of course is never gonna write,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: never going to happen.
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was good.
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's an interesting thought experiment of what happens
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: if you clone two people and they have two different lives.
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: Right, I don't know.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 53:28
  Speaker 5: I liked it though, it was like, even thinking about
• 53:31
  Speaker 5: it is that creeps me? I was like, no, why,
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: it gives you a lot of thubs, like trying to
• 53:36
  Speaker 5: find like it does have that conversation like she does.
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: I don't know if she meant to, but the lying
• 53:40
  Speaker 5: of that perfect life and trying to fix your childhood
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: by using that daughter like which often happens when I
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: have my own kids. I'm going to do this better.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And this is just like a much more
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: scientific way. I also has interesting conversations about the soul
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: and what is the soul? Which, yes, we as humans
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: love to talk about that. But it was cool to
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: see it play out in like the Supreme Court where
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: they were debating, right, what is the soul? That's the question,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: I know, And that's when we got into someone that's mess. Okay,
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: we're okay, Well, clearly we have a lot to say
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: about a lot of these stories. So we're gonna put
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: this one in too, but really go read this book
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: if you have interest. If you can, it is so good.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Take this break to go get this book and read
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: it all and then come back with us for the
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: second part.
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know one day, I think that was like
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: our original intent we should do a more interactive book club.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Think that.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's because we stopped doing social media. We're like, yeah,
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: I can't because we were gonna.
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. But now you have a chance
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: for the second half to go read up. But yes,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: if in the meantime, if you have thoughts about any
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: of this or any other suggestions, you can email us
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: at Hello at stuff one Never Told You dot com.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: You can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I'll Never Told You,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: also on YouTube. We have a tea public store, and
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: we have a book you can get wherever you get
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always to our super producer Beustine, are,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: executive producer My and our contributor Joey. Thank you and
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Stuff Will Never Told You
• 55:25
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