Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / All Blacks Survive Stormers Scare, Boks Edge Argentina Thriller!

Transcript

All Blacks Survive Stormers Scare, Boks Edge Argentina Thriller! · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Dion Farid, playing for the Stormers, 39 years old.
• 0:04
  I mean, the performance gave him a springbok call-up.
• 0:06
  New Zealand has always struggled with that outside-in defence, but in the end, they found a way.
• 0:11
  Yeah, it was a difficult game for South Africa.
• 0:14
  Our kicking game was off.
• 0:15
  So who's your starting 10 if you were picking it today, Victor?
• 0:19
  I thought the refereeing was poor.
• 0:21
  I thought the yellow cards were marginal at best.
• 0:24
  I mean, it's a penalty trial.
• 0:25
  Why do we have to send the guy off?
• 0:27
  I think World Rugby have lost control.
• 0:30
  There are other options to go back to the 70s and have South African referees.
• 0:34
  That went well for us.
• 0:35
  No close.
• 0:35
  That will work.
• 0:36
  Yeah.
• 0:42
  Right, welcome to Ram Couriers, hand-to-hand couriers, our sponsors of the Rugby Rivals show.
• 0:49
  And both of your teams could have done better on the weekend, let's be honest.
• 0:55
  Is that fair?
• 0:57
  What do you mean, Ricardo?
• 0:59
  Well, you are hardly that impressive.
• 1:01
  South Africa played a rugby team that everyone consistently underestimates, which I don't know why.
• 1:09
  They're one of the hardest teams in the world to play.
• 1:12
  And they won.
• 1:14
  And the All Blacks, the All Blacks, you know, what was interesting for me, Ricardo, was it brought back so many memories.
• 1:22
  Like...
• 1:23
  You know, I played 96 games for the All Blacks in 63 tests.
• 1:27
  So 33 of those games were like the other night.
• 1:29
  It just brought back so many memories where you struggle.
• 1:33
  You know, it's hard work.
• 1:35
  The opposition are in your face.
• 1:37
  You're a little bit rusty.
• 1:39
  You get a little bit rattled.
• 1:40
  You get a bit frustrated.
• 1:42
  But in the end, they found a way.
• 1:43
  So I think the learnings and stuff, it just builds the anticipation, Victor.
• 1:50
  That's all it does.
• 1:51
  Yeah.
• 1:52
  Yeah.
• 1:53
  Yeah, it was actually interesting to listen to Rossi after the game and saying, listen, there's so many lessons that they learned.
• 2:01
  They knew it was going to be tough over there.
• 2:04
  We've struggled in the last few years when we went over to Argentina to get good victors there.
• 2:09
  We've lost a few as well over there.
• 2:11
  So, I mean, a new team.
• 2:13
  There was a lot of guys that hadn't played for a long time.
• 2:15
  Put them in new combinations.
• 2:19
  So, I think he got out of it.
• 2:22
  what he wanted.
• 2:23
  A few key players got through the game.
• 2:26
  A pity that Siah got injured again.
• 2:28
  I think he might be missing this whole tour.
• 2:31
  I mean, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
• 2:33
  So that will be sad.
• 2:34
  But yeah, tough game.
• 2:37
  Argentina is a quality team and if they get things right on the day, we know it's very tough.
• 2:43
  And then on Friday night, I was actually
• 2:46
  very proud of how the Stormers played.
• 2:48
  I thought they really stood up.
• 2:50
  They were in the faces of All Blacks.
• 2:51
  Their defense was really good.
• 2:53
  Probably also the club in South Africa, their defense, the closest to what the Springboks defense like with that outside in defense.
• 3:01
  So probably a good test for All Blacks as well to feel that pressure from their defense as well.
• 3:08
  So
• 3:09
  Yeah, but like JK said, I thought they might give him a little scared, but at the end, the All Blacks showed their class and they ran away with it in the last 20 minutes.
• 3:18
  Well, I've got some, before we go any further, I've got some footage.
• 3:22
  I just, for the first time ever, we'll play some footage in the show.
• 3:25
  I just want to get your comments on this, Victor.
• 3:31
  Why are you bringing this stuff in?
• 3:32
  It's on my internet feed.
• 3:35
  I want to know what's going on.
• 3:49
  I feel like you're teaming up here against me.
• 3:52
  Getting closer to the test matches.
• 3:54
  Now he's having all kind of
• 3:56
  Stupid videos.
• 3:58
  All right, let's start with the All Black game first.
• 4:01
  As you say, JK, a very typical touring game where you're under pressure for 60 minutes and then somehow in that last 20 minutes you sort of find a way to sort of get enough points to sort of come away with your head as held high.
• 4:12
  But the All Blacks would have learned a lot about the way oppositions play against them, but also about themselves, do you think?
• 4:22
  Yeah, look, I think Victor is right about the defensive systems.
• 4:28
  New Zealand has always struggled with that outside-in defence, and the Bulls' line speed, we knew before the game, was really, really good.
• 4:35
  So the line speed puts you under pressure.
• 4:38
  I thought the All Blacks started very, very well, running it from inside your 22, trying to run the opposition around.
• 4:46
  I think the most important thing is they found a way.
• 4:49
  Was it?
• 4:50
  an ideal performance.
• 4:51
  They probably left three or four tries out there, um, by not finishing and, and, and finishing, um, in a non-traditional way.
• 5:00
  So when I say that, like if you look at, uh, if, if,
• 5:05
  We call it closing the gate.
• 5:06
  Well, I call it closing the gate.
• 5:07
  If the defence closes the gate, a lot of the time you're trying to push in behind them or pass the ball over, it's a last-minute decision.
• 5:14
  So the skill set, I think the All Blacks will go away and say, right, if we're going to try and get around them or over them, then we need to make sure that we nail our skill set.
• 5:23
  And they found a way.
• 5:25
  I think with sort of 10 or 12 to go,
• 5:29
  or 15 to go probably, you're thinking these players need to find a way and good teams find a way to win.
• 5:38
  So for me, it was lots of learnings, lots of pressure.
• 5:43
  There's going to be another big one tomorrow night and it'll help us prepare.
• 5:49
  It'll help us prepare for the springboks.
• 5:52
  Let's be honest, that wasn't a full-strength Stormers side, you know, and so all the Springboks were missing, basically.
• 6:01
  And do you think, Victor, that New Zealand, the All Blacks, are going to have to modify their game plan a little bit because, you know, we were going side to side a lot early on, but then in the last 20, we were a little bit more direct.
• 6:15
  Do you think that's going to be a balance?
• 6:17
  I think it will help them to play these games before they get to South Africa.
• 6:21
  I mean, we don't play as each other in super rugby anymore.
• 6:24
  So there's a lot that we don't get that we usually would have gotten playing super rugby against each other.
• 6:32
  So I think for them, I mean, feeling that pressure, it's one thing to make plans against that push defence.
• 6:40
  I remember when we played...
• 6:42
  The first time, I think it was the Welsh that started it under Edwards, the rush defence.
• 6:48
  And we thought we had plans, but I mean, it's just in your face.
• 6:51
  And as you want to make a decision, someone is coming from the outside, we're used to everything comes from the inside.
• 6:58
  And it's difficult, but I think they get opportunities now to face it.
• 7:01
  They will feel it.
• 7:02
  It's about getting a rhythm against it and just feeling that pressure now to handle it.
• 7:06
  So I think for the All Blacks, it will probably help that they're playing this one,
• 7:11
  game against the Stormers.
• 7:13
  The Sharks and the Bulls doesn't really come that hard off the line.
• 7:17
  They have more old school type of defence.
• 7:19
  So that won't give them the same feeling but I think this game against the Stormers will help.
• 7:25
  But the one thing that there must still be a little bit of a worry about is the scrum.
• 7:29
  I mean there's a few of the Stormers guys not there and still I think the Stormers got the upper hand at scrum time.
• 7:37
  That is still a big question mark for New Zealand.
• 7:40
  Of course, you can't go into these test matches and give away too many scrum penalties.
• 7:45
  Yeah, that second shove, Victor, that the Africans love so much.
• 7:48
  You know, it's something that I think, you know, the boys will come away and go, yeah, we need to make sure that we are hanging in there for a bit longer because I think that initial shove...
• 8:02
  You know, one of the disappointment things for me was the refereeing.
• 8:07
  Like, for me, it was just pedantic.
• 8:10
  I thought the yellow cards were marginal at best.
• 8:15
  And so, you know, to play any game with 13 is going to be tough.
• 8:20
  So I thought the refereeing was poor, and the All Blacks rightly so said we need to fix our discipline, and that's true.
• 8:29
  You cannot go through a game without that discipline.
• 8:32
  So I think the discipline in the early, you know, in the mid parts of that game will need improving, but I just...
• 8:39
  pray that we don't get referees that pedantic.
• 8:42
  You know we are.
• 8:44
  You know that this is the way that World Rugby wants to run the game.
• 8:47
  They want the TMOs to have a heavy involvement.
• 8:49
  They want the referees to be strong.
• 8:52
  So don't you think we need to be smarter?
• 8:56
  So what you're saying is World Rugby want to penalise expansive players
• 9:02
  and games of rugby that are lasting longer minutes for the fan.
• 9:06
  That's what you're saying.
• 9:06
  They want the TMO to come in.
• 9:08
  They want the TMO to come in.
• 9:11
  There was an inside pass from, I can't remember who it was, Somerset, I think, that they called back a little bit.
• 9:18
  That's what's going to happen.
• 9:20
  So isn't it on us to have our better discipline?
• 9:26
  Totally.
• 9:27
  I'm not saying that.
• 9:28
  I'm not saying that.
• 9:30
  I said the discipline needs to get better.
• 9:33
  But what I'm saying is that, did you believe they were two yellow cards, Victor and Ricciardo?
• 9:38
  No, you know my feeling about it.
• 9:40
  No card.
• 9:44
  I hate it, but unfortunately, like Ricardo was saying, that's how it's going to be.
• 9:48
  That's how he will track.
• 9:49
  We want the game to be run.
• 9:51
  TMOs, we do want the right decisions.
• 9:53
  So TMOs will get involved.
• 9:55
  For me, it's about how quickly they make those decisions.
• 9:58
  Or even if they see something, call back, look while the game's going, call back.
• 10:01
  Okay, this is what happened.
• 10:03
  But let's get speed into the game.
• 10:05
  And unfortunately, we're not going to change it.
• 10:08
  Although me and you can say whatever we want on this show.
• 10:12
  If a guy is going to go for intercept, goes to the ground, that's a yellow card.
• 10:16
  If he slips up, make face contact, it's going to be a yellow card.
• 10:20
  Those are things that we don't want to see, but unfortunately, the way it's refereed, that's what's going to happen.
• 10:27
  So the Morby try, for example, the penalty try on the yellow card, like that for me was the most pedantic decision in the game.
• 10:39
  The reason is like rugby is a natural instinct game.
• 10:44
  No one would not have tried to wrap his arm around to stop a try in goal there.
• 10:51
  I don't even understand the ruling.
• 10:53
  Right?
• 10:54
  It's a natural movement of the game where you're wrapping your arm around, you're trying to stop a try.
• 10:59
  You've seen it 100 million times over the goal line.
• 11:02
  So when I look at that, I go, it doesn't make sense.
• 11:05
  It does not make sense.
• 11:06
  And it's a penalty try.
• 11:07
  And again, I mean, it's a penalty try.
• 11:10
  Why do we have to send the guy off?
• 11:12
  If he hasn't died, it would have been a try.
• 11:14
  Now he did it, so it's a try.
• 11:15
  I mean, so why do we need to send the guy off?
• 11:17
  I still don't understand it.
• 11:20
  It's just I don't know how they got to this roof.
• 11:22
  Yeah.
• 11:23
  Yeah, but that's because world rugby don't control.
• 11:25
  I think world rugby have lost control of what the referees want to do versus what our game wants to do.
• 11:32
  I think, though, JK, if you look at the Morby one, it was probably a penalty because he stopped...
• 11:41
  the stormer player from having his second action by playing the ball on the ground, which you can't do.
• 11:46
  You know, that's a penalty.
• 11:47
  In goal you can.
• 11:48
  In goal you can.
• 11:50
  He wasn't in goal, was he?
• 11:51
  Well, when you're running at 100 miles an hour and the guy's diving for the try line, I mean, you think you're in goal.
• 11:59
  Yeah, it's a reflex action, but unfortunately, if your reflex action is against the rules, it's a penalty.
• 12:05
  And if the penalty was stopping him scoring a try, it's a penalty try.
• 12:11
  But if he's trying to score a try, he's – okay, pedantic.
• 12:16
  Right.
• 12:16
  I agree with Victor.
• 12:19
  Should be –
• 12:21
  You shouldn't send him off.
• 12:22
  It's a penalty try because it's not facetious.
• 12:24
  It's not like on purpose.
• 12:26
  We need to start looking at the game from a common sense point of view.
• 12:31
  Anton Leonard Brown, there was absolutely no malice in there.
• 12:38
  It was a light contact.
• 12:40
  He was going backwards.
• 12:42
  The tackler actually won the advantage line.
• 12:45
  It's just frustrating.
• 12:47
  We all agree, J.K. That was a crazy one.
• 12:49
  But...
• 12:50
  So stop annoying me by asking those stupid questions to provoke me.
• 12:53
  But the reality is that is the game that we're going to be playing.
• 12:57
  That is World Raiders.
• 12:58
  That's how it's going to be Lord now in these four test matches.
• 13:01
  Unfortunately, we won't be able to change it.
• 13:04
  There are other options to go back to the 70s and have South African referees.
• 13:07
  That went well for us.
• 13:10
  No close.
• 13:11
  That will work.
• 13:13
  Let the dad be on the...
• 13:15
  So let's let's who's delivered, you know, let's our sponsors, Ram hand to hand couriers who delivered under pressure for you on the weekend, Victor?
• 13:26
  Oh, for me.
• 13:30
  I'm going to go with Dion Farid playing for the Stormers.
• 13:34
  He's been out for six months, 39 years old, turning 41 of these days.
• 13:40
  I mean, the performance gave him a springboard call-up.
• 13:42
  He got the call-up this morning.
• 13:44
  He's joining the box.
• 13:46
  And I mean, he's been outstanding the last four years.
• 13:49
  I mean, he was outstanding World Cup final, coming in and playing Vuka for 70 minutes.
• 13:54
  So yeah, he's just a guy that leads from the front for the Stormers.
• 13:58
  And especially with a guy like Quaha that's not there at the moment, he might just play a role off the bench.
• 14:06
  I think player under pressure coming from a long injury, hasn't played for, I think, six months, coming out, playing against Allbacks, having a performance like that, that's definitely my under pressure moment.
• 14:19
  Just tell me more about him, because I thought his performance was incredible, you know, and, you know, he's about the same age as you, JK.
• 14:28
  Tell me, tell me more about him.
• 14:31
  Yeah, he came from the same school as I do.
• 14:33
  So we're down at the Platteland in the northern part of South Africa, Petersburg World School.
• 14:40
  Then he went from there, he went to Cape Town.
• 14:42
  He was actually hooker most of his career when he started.
• 14:45
  Played hooker.
• 14:46
  A lot of people said he's too small for hooker, so then he started playing a bit open side as well, and then he went over to France.
• 14:54
  I think he played for Bordeaux for probably three, four years.
• 14:58
  And then at
• 14:59
  I think in 35, 36, he came back and led the Stormers and just had a huge impact.
• 15:06
  Very physical guy, great guy to be around as well.
• 15:09
  They call him Branas because of all the brandy that he drinks.
• 15:12
  So his nickname is Branas.
• 15:15
  And just a physical beast that likes to get stuck in.
• 15:18
  I don't think he's like...
• 15:21
  Henry Prusso of old, over the ball is great.
• 15:24
  And I think this young kid, Paul de Villiers, that's done so well, has learned from him.
• 15:29
  I mean, he kept Paul out of the team now for the last three years.
• 15:32
  When he was ready, Paul needs to move to the bench.
• 15:35
  And I mean, two outstanding features.
• 15:38
  And I think his impact in Paul's development is also huge.
• 15:42
  So, yeah, just a tough guy.
• 15:45
  And that's great over the ball.
• 15:47
  J.K., who is your Ram career in the end delivering under pressure?
• 15:53
  I thought Anton Leonard-Brown was outstanding on the weekend.
• 15:57
  You know, he's 80-test veteran, and I just think he kept getting over the advantage line and when we needed it, just stepped up and got the team going forward.
• 16:10
  I think he's really prominent.
• 16:11
  I think he got Player of the Day as well, which he probably deserves.
• 16:15
  You know, Anton Leonard-Brown would be my Ram Currier sort of guy who delivered because he just did what we needed to do.
• 16:22
  I thought he was very good vocally.
• 16:25
  I thought Josh Jacobs as well when he came on sort of 12 minutes at the end.
• 16:29
  I thought he showed some real composure, and I think those bench guys are going to be really important in test matches.
• 16:36
  So, yeah, Anton Leonard-Brown.
• 16:38
  Yeah, a name that you guys haven't mentioned that I thought was really delivered under pressure was Peter Lakai.
• 16:45
  I thought it was the best game I've seen him play in a black jersey, actually.
• 16:49
  I thought he just looked strong every time he carried the ball.
• 16:53
  He was in the right places and really put his hand up for a dead spot.
• 16:59
  I think that's his position, Ricardo.
• 17:01
  You know, I think he's good in that position and they changed him late.
• 17:06
  you know, through injury.
• 17:08
  So I think he stepped into that position.
• 17:10
  I think he's really dynamic.
• 17:12
  I think he's got the acceleration sort of off the base of the scrum as well, Victor, which is really, really important, you know, especially if that first hit's happening.
• 17:21
  Because what you've got to realise with a South African scrum,
• 17:24
  There's eight men all on, right?
• 17:26
  So they're going to have a lot of tension in that scrum.
• 17:29
  And if you're going to have a quick hook and your number eight's got pace like Ardy, you know, so I thought he showed, Peter Luck, I showed a lot of pace from there.
• 17:37
  And you get over the advantage line because the opposition are concentrating on scrummaging.
• 17:42
  And so the loose forwards are really on.
• 17:45
  That's why I enjoy these games now.
• 17:47
  Because we don't see Super Rugby anymore, we don't know all, especially the fringe players in the All Blacks team.
• 17:53
  We know the guys that's starting that we've seen, but we don't know the new kids and the new players coming through.
• 17:58
  So I'm really enjoying these games, and I can't wait for tomorrow night because there will be, again, new guys that we don't know that we see the skill sets.
• 18:07
  So, yeah, a great opportunity for these players to show and show they want to play in the test matches.
• 18:14
  Yeah, one guy that's copped a bit of flack, JK, is Bodhi Barrett.
• 18:20
  Yeah, I've got no issues with Bodhi.
• 18:24
  You know, I thought that he sort of played well in a difficult situation.
• 18:30
  If you think early, like the stuff that was created, the type of play that they were playing, you know, I thought he was fine, mate.
• 18:39
  I think he'll come away from that.
• 18:41
  He hasn't played for a while.
• 18:43
  but, you know, I've got no issues.
• 18:46
  I don't understand why people are criticising him.
• 18:49
  I think that he made one blatant error that he shouldn't have, you know, a kick-off, but I thought he was fine.
• 18:55
  I thought the way he ran the game early especially, they left a few tries out there.
• 19:01
  You know, for a 10, I think the most important thing for us is how do you break down these South African defences?
• 19:07
  And I thought what he was calling out there was,
• 19:10
  was fine.
• 19:11
  So I've got absolutely no issues with Bowdoin at all.
• 19:15
  I think he'll be fine.
• 19:16
  And while we're on the subjects of Tens copping flack, Sasha copped a bit of flack after the Argentinian game, Victor?
• 19:23
  Yeah, I actually had a...
• 19:25
  I went through the game again last night.
• 19:29
  And I actually also don't think he played that badly.
• 19:31
  I think our kicking game was off.
• 19:34
  Especially our high bombs were just too far.
• 19:36
  We were kicking them to the best.
• 19:39
  And I mean, we always talk nowadays, when you kick those high balls, it's rather too short than too far.
• 19:45
  Because otherwise, you just give the ball away.
• 19:47
  So our kicking game was a little bit off.
• 19:49
  But I mean, he was physical.
• 19:51
  He still went for it.
• 19:54
  remember he hasn't played for six weeks, so there's another two weeks for him to get into training.
• 20:00
  So yeah, you couldn't expect him to be at his best after not playing for four to five weeks.
• 20:07
  So I thought he did what was needed, got game time under the belt.
• 20:13
  And again, I actually enjoyed when Andre came on, moved him to 15, and Andre just brought that calmness to the team as well that we know he will bring.
• 20:23
  So yeah,
• 20:24
  Yeah, it was a difficult game for South Africa.
• 20:28
  It felt like their games would take control.
• 20:30
  But again, like I said, our kicking game weren't on the spot.
• 20:35
  And then just stupid handling errors at critical times just cost us momentum in that game.
• 20:41
  So it was difficult.
• 20:43
  And the Argentinians were really physical.
• 20:45
  They got in, got stuck into the fence.
• 20:47
  And they didn't want to give away anything.
• 20:49
  So it was a tough test match for us.
• 20:51
  Who's your starting 10 if you were picking it today, Victor?
• 20:54
  I don't know.
• 21:00
  I'll still pick Sasha.
• 21:04
  I think he's fantastic.
• 21:05
  And I would like to have Andre on the bench.
• 21:09
  But knowing Russia, I think he's going to start with Marnie and probably put Sasha on the bench.
• 21:14
  JK, will you help me there?
• 21:15
  I would definitely have Bowdoin in my team in my 23.
• 21:21
  I think it's a little bit too early yet, and I think what Dave Rennie is creating, and if you see the team for tomorrow night, there's still some guys that need to play, so Saturday will be interesting.
• 21:37
  And I'm pretty sure at the beginning of the tour,
• 21:39
  Dave Rennie said everyone will get a crack.
• 21:42
  So it's a little bit early to say yet.
• 21:45
  But for me... Have they named the team yet for tomorrow?
• 21:48
  Yeah, yeah, they have.
• 21:49
  I haven't seen it.
• 21:50
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:51
  And is it close to the test team or do you think Saturday will be closer?
• 21:55
  Saturday will probably... Yeah, I think Saturday will be really close, Victor.
• 21:58
  So I think he's still mixing it up a wee bit.
• 22:01
  Like Cody Taylor.
• 22:02
  James Van Bulls.
• 22:04
  Yeah, yeah.
• 22:05
  Against your bulls, mate.
• 22:06
  Against your bulls.
• 22:06
  Got to win that one.
• 22:08
  Got to win that one.
• 22:09
  Yeah, no.
• 22:10
  So I think, Ricardo, it's a little bit too early to say yet, and I think repeating it, you know, Dave Rennie is creating internal competition, you know, and I think that's really healthy.
• 22:24
  Just going back to the Argentinian game, you talked about the kicking being off.
• 22:30
  Is that a rhythm thing?
• 22:31
  Is that a skill execution thing?
• 22:34
  Because box kicks is something that the South African players are pretty good at.
• 22:39
  Why were they so poor?
• 22:41
  Yeah, I can't understand because I mean, Kürbis Reinhardt is fantastic at it.
• 22:46
  And it was every time just a meter or two too far and we couldn't go up.
• 22:51
  So just gave the ball back.
• 22:53
  And I mean, we really, that's where we attack well as well.
• 22:57
  If you get those turnovers, the fences aren't organized and that's when, um, our attack come into the game.
• 23:03
  So yeah, it's interesting.
• 23:05
  I don't know if the.
• 23:07
  Maybe the air was not as thin as up in the high field.
• 23:10
  It doesn't fly as high.
• 23:12
  It's difficult.
• 23:13
  And also, you travel a far way.
• 23:16
  They traveled a long way.
• 23:18
  So a little bit of jet lag, just not on your game.
• 23:21
  But yeah, that's definitely something they'll fix before we play in two weeks time.
• 23:28
  It's called a 28.
• 23:29
  It's called a 28, Ricardo, because for the ball to come down,
• 23:34
  And for the opposition to be under it as well as you, it needs to land on 28 yards pretty much from the kick.
• 23:41
  So it's about accuracy, you know, and it's about nailing that accuracy.
• 23:46
  And some days a kicker like a golfer is just off.
• 23:49
  And 31 yards means that the opposition catch it freely.
• 23:53
  And short means you're stopping and the opposition are attacking it.
• 23:58
  So it completely changes the game.
• 24:02
  Just for our younger viewers, yards are what old people call meters.
• 24:09
  So just an explanation.
• 24:12
  But when we're talking about kicking JK, it's an area that the All Blacks can do better at is receiving those high kicks.
• 24:19
  Yeah, I mean, you know when you go to South Africa that that is going to be one of the most important things.
• 24:25
  And I think it'll be a massive, for the outside backs, it'll be a massive selection part tick.
• 24:32
  So you know that in these early games, you've got to catch that high ball.
• 24:37
  And you've got to attack it.
• 24:38
  You've got to look at different ways of attacking it.
• 24:41
  Because like Victor said, it can change the game.
• 24:44
  And we know that South Africa...
• 24:46
  especially when they're under pressure, they will go back to what they know creates pressure for the opposition, and that's the 28-yard kick, Ricardo, and discipline, kicking into the corners and mauling you.
• 25:03
  So we played two tests at altitude and one at sea level.
• 25:09
  Is that a different rhythm to catching the high ball?
• 25:12
  It's not catching.
• 25:14
  Kicking is definitely different.
• 25:16
  I mean, your kicking strategy needs to be different in Durban.
• 25:20
  The ball doesn't fly, so you'll have to even there, because you won't be able to get it up as high, so you'll probably have to get 24 yards rather than 28 yards, so that your wingers can get there.
• 25:33
  So it's difficult.
• 25:34
  Cape Town is not that bad, but Durban is very difficult, and then, I mean, when you come up to the AFL, you can kick it
• 25:40
  out of the stadium and let it come down.
• 25:42
  So there's a lot of time when you're up here.
• 25:45
  So that will make a difference in the kicking games.
• 25:48
  So we've talked too much about kicking and scrummaging.
• 25:52
  What about your clip drift moment, JK, of the weekend?
• 25:57
  Well, of the weekend, mine's sort of actually yesterday.
• 26:04
  I think the late try from the All Blacks was pretty special, so that would be my moment if you want to show a clip.
• 26:09
  But mine's more of an emotional one with Luke Jacobson being named captain of the side for this week.
• 26:15
  So can I put that in there or not?
• 26:17
  Yeah, you do whatever you like.
• 26:20
  Leroy Carter's try would be my highlight from the weekend.
• 26:24
  But Luke Jacobson, you know, last year on the November tour, he was on the All Black tour.
• 26:29
  He got sent to play for the second 15, got injured, got sent home.
• 26:38
  You know, he got a head knock.
• 26:40
  He'd had a couple.
• 26:41
  Things were pretty tough for him.
• 26:43
  And now he's captaining a pretty good all-black side on the weekend.
• 26:47
  So my highlight's Leroy Carter and then Luke Jacobson getting named as captain.
• 26:51
  I think it's a pretty special moment for him.
• 26:53
  So if you were going to have a Clippies and Co, that would be for Luke Jacobson being named captain?
• 27:00
  Totally.
• 27:01
  Totally.
• 27:02
  Right.
• 27:03
  And now the expert on Clip Drift and Coca-Cola.
• 27:07
  I had a few this weekend, so I can't remember all the games that well, but I was on a farm where I had a lot of the best products on the farm.
• 27:18
  So it's been a long weekend, but I'm going with a try off camera in Hanakom, but just the performance of camera in Hanakom as well.
• 27:28
  I mean, everyone has been waiting for him.
• 27:30
  to get opportunity to show what he can do.
• 27:33
  Then knee injury is almost out for a year.
• 27:36
  He fought back this whole year with the Bulls as well.
• 27:40
  We all know the quality.
• 27:41
  Yes, he's behind a guy like Jasper Visser that's probably just a little bit more physical, more abrasive.
• 27:48
  But I mean, Cameron Hanekum got some slick skills.
• 27:51
  He's got other attributes that a guy like Visser probably don't have.
• 27:56
  I mean, he just stood up in a difficult test match and that's what was needed from him to stand up when it was really a tough test match and he stood up and he delivered, scored the try.
• 28:06
  But I mean, on defence he was massive, his work rate, his skill set.
• 28:10
  So I think he's one for the future.
• 28:13
  All right.
• 28:14
  Victor, I put you wrong a little bit about that all-black side, mate.
• 28:17
  So it's actually re-looking at it this morning.
• 28:20
  I briefly looked at it last night.
• 28:21
  So it's a pretty tough – it's a pretty good side.
• 28:25
  Not – it won't be the test side, but it'll be pretty close.
• 28:28
  Like it's – yeah.
• 28:29
  Okay.
• 28:30
  Yeah, pretty interesting.
• 28:33
  All right, now we're going to go across to the team room where we're going to have a bit more in-depth discussion tactically about how Victor's going to help the Springboks beat the All Blacks and how JK's going to help the All Blacks beat the Springboks.
• 28:45
  We've got a new thing in the team room on rugbyrivals.com where you can actually record a voice note and send it to us, ask us a question, tell us what you think.
• 28:56
  We'll be playing them in the show.
• 28:58
  um so that could be interesting um based on the you know the fact that our audience is much more intelligent than the people on the show so we're looking forward to hearing from you um we'll catch you next week thanks very much