Latest / The Daily Writer / Getting Your Book into Bookstores & Libraries | Susan Neal

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Getting Your Book into Bookstores & Libraries | Susan Neal · The Daily Writer

0:08
SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, welcome back to the Profitable Writer Podcast.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: If you're new here, my name is Kent Sanders.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm an author and ghostwriter, and this is the show that helps you grow your impact and income as a writer.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, even though Amazon has been all the rage for book buyers for much of the last 20 years, did you know that there are many other outlets where readers can find your books?
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, of course you did, because you're not just a writer, but a reader as well.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: And if your life resembles mine, you probably buy books from Amazon all the time because of the price, the speed, and the convenience.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: In fact, as I'm recording this, literally on the desk, literally on my desk right in front of me is the new book by Morgan Housel, the author of The Psychology of Money.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: And the book is titled Same as Ever, A Guide to What Never Changes.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: It has really, really great reviews.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to get this book today, but I didn't want to wait, you know, like a whole day for Amazon to deliver at regular prime speed.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: So I paid the extra$2.99 to have it delivered literally this afternoon.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: So I ordered it this morning, got it this afternoon.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: I mean, we all love Amazon, let's face it.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: But here's the deal: Amazon is only one of the many, many places where readers can find your books.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: Even if you're like me and you buy a ton of books from Amazon, we also buy books from other places, don't we?
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so excited that my guest today, Susan Neal, is here to help us learn how to get our books into two places that are really, really vital for us as authors.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: And those places are bookstores and libraries.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Now, Susan is a really, really cool person.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Let me take you a mo let me take a moment to tell you a bit about her, and then we'll get to the conversation.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Susan Neal R.N.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: has a master's in health science as well as an MBA.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: She lives her life with a passion to help others improve their health.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: After suffering a health crisis of her own, she became an author and a health coach to provide others with the tools they needed to heal their bodies and reclaim their ideal weight.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Her award-winning number one Amazon best-selling book is Seven Steps to Get Off Sugar and Carbohydrates.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: And I've got to tell you, by the way, a little side note, that is a really, really good book.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you want to get off sugar and carbs, you've got to get it because it's a super good book.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: There's a link in the show notes.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, back to the bio.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: The third book in her Healthy Living series, The Healthy Living Journal, won the Golden Scrolls Award for Best Inspirational Gift Book.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: And her newest release is called 12 Ways to Age Gracefully: How to Look and Feel Younger, and that book releases near the end of May.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Susan has been featured in many media outlets, including CTN's Bridges TV Show, WATC TV, Atlanta Live, and Friends and Neighbors, TCT's Julian Friends, Charisma Magazine, and numerous podcasts and radio shows.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: You can learn more about Susan at SusanUNeil.com.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: That's Susan, the letter U, then Neil, N-E-A-L.com.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Now what's even cooler is that Susan is also the director of the Christian Indie Publishing Association, which is an incredible resource for faith-based authors to grow your author platform, book sales, and much more.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm a member of SEPA myself, C I P A, and I recommend it highly if you are a faith-based author.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: You can learn more about the Christian Indie Publishers Association by going to ChristianPublishers.net, and there will be a link in the show notes.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: In my conversation with Susan, we talk about several key topics related to getting your book into bookstores and libraries.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Here's some of the things that we talk about.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Why get your book into those places when you can just use Amazon?
3:46
SPEAKER_00: What about the importance of having your own imprint?
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Why do you need to have the retail price printed on the back cover of your book?
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Why should your book be available through a major distributor and not just through Ingram Spark?
3:59
SPEAKER_00: What's the value of speaking to a manager at local Barnes Noble stores or indie bookstores?
4:04
SPEAKER_00: And what are Susan's thoughts on getting into library?
4:08
SPEAKER_00: We talk about many more things in this conversation, but I hope that that wets your appetite.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: Here's my conversation with the amazing Susan Neal.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Susan, it's great to have you on the Profitable Rider Podcast.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: This, I believe, is your second appearance on the show.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: So it's great to have you back.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much, Ken.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, just before I hit record, I was mentioning that I wanted to kick off this conversation by mentioning that you are the leader slash owner slash mastermind, whatever term you want to put on it, behind Ken and SIPA.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: Now, I've already mentioned these in the intro that I I've recorded separately from this, but listeners just heard that.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: But I'm wondering if you can go into a little bit more detail about what are these resources for people?
4:54
SPEAKER_00: How can it benefit them and um also how they can sign up for them?
4:58
SPEAKER_00: So I usually do this at the end of the conversation, but these are so cool that I want to make sure and get into this up front so I don't forget.
5:05
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yes, I sure can.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: So Christian Indie Publishing Association is um an association for independently published authors.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: Christian Authors Network is for traditionally published authors.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Probably 90% of the resources are the same, but there's different needs there.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: So um traditionally published authors have different opportunities with retailers, etc.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: So there it costs$90 a year, and you get over 125 products, including uh over 16 courses.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: And these are very in-depth courses, like how to um determine your keywords for your book and categories so you rank on Amazon, how to blog so that or guest blog or write on your blog so that your website ranks high on Google.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: There are over 30 guides, there's 40 discounts, there is a list of writers' conferences, lists of a hundred podcasts and radio uh that you can go ahead and query.
6:20
SPEAKER_02: There's just a huge amount of resources for a very small amount of money.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm actually shocked at how affordable this is for people because I'm a member and I'm I'm also a what's the other term that you would use?
6:35
SPEAKER_02: Partner member.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: Partner member, right?
6:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh I was trying to, I was, I was thinking of the word like supporter or vendor.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't think of the right word.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um, I love what you're doing with both of these.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're phenomenal resources.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: And I haven't been through everything, of course, because there's a lot of stuff there, but what I have been through, I'm just I'm blown away by the depth of the research and information and how valuable this is for people.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: So that's so thank you for heading both of these up.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: They're really, really incredible resources.
7:04
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:05
SPEAKER_02: They can go to Christianpublishers.net to find it.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: Now I do want to ask this before I get onto the main topic of this conversation.
7:15
SPEAKER_00: So let's say somebody's listening who's not necessarily from a church background, or maybe they don't consider themselves a person of faith.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the vast majority of information that you have there is still going to apply to any author, correct?
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes, it sure would.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: So, but I think people going into it kind of obviously they would know that it's it's from a faith-based perspective, but my goodness, anything that's gonna help a person of faith who's publishing is also gonna help uh a person who doesn't come from that specific perspective because we all want to be successful with our books.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes, we do.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: I would encourage people to check that out.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's dive into our topic, which is how to get your book into bookstores.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: And I also want to tag some stuff on at the end of this conversation about libraries.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: That's a whole separate can of worms, but but there are some thoughts I know you have to share on that briefly.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, here's my first question with getting your book into bookstores.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: With the advent of Amazon today, where so many people buy books and so much so many of us do so much shopping on Amazon.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Is there really a point to us even trying to get our book into physical bookstores?
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Is that even really a thing anymore that people should try to do?
8:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, yes, they should.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: So 40% of print books are sold on Amazon.
8:40
SPEAKER_02: So you still have 60%.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know it was so low.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: 70% of ebooks are sold on Amazon.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay, but print books, you have you know, book over 600 Barnes and Noble bookstores across the country.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: They're supposed to be opening 50 new bookstores, physical stores this year.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: So we're coming, yeah, we're coming out of the pandemic.
9:05
SPEAKER_02: Hallelujah.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: People are are gathering again at bookstores.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, and there there's um multiple ways to do that.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can go to all your different local, like for me, I go within a 90 um minute drive to all the different bookstores, and I arrange between Black Friday and New Year's to do a book signing because that's when you're gonna have an incredible amount of people there.
9:37
SPEAKER_02: I don't like to do it at any other time of the year because you don't have all the consumers, but um one year at Barnes and Noble, I sold five hundred dollars worth of books in three hours the Sunday before Christmas.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: That's genius.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's really genius.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: That's one of my tactics.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: So that's and then you get to know and you if you do this annually, then the bookstore managers get to know you.
10:11
SPEAKER_02: And I go in, I find my books are still on, you know, they carry my books then.
10:17
SPEAKER_02: So a year later I'll go and see they've got okay, you know, out of the five they were carrying, they still have two left on the shelf then, and then maybe they'll they'll get some more then in after I come for the book signing.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: So, what is involved in in talking with the manager and trying to set up a book signing at specifically a Barnes Noble?
10:36
SPEAKER_02: So the first time what I did is I went there in person and uh asked for the manager, I I dressed professionally, I introduced myself, I showed them a few of my books, I gave them my one sheet or media kit and uh told them that I'd love to do a book signing at some point.
10:58
SPEAKER_02: And they said, wonderful, they got my card, they took the information, and they um contacted me later and signed me up for a book signing.
11:08
SPEAKER_02: Now, with some stores, I didn't, you know, do all that.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: I just I wasn't gonna drive 75 minutes the other way.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: So so uh I just contacted them via email.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: You just go onto their website, you go to the authors section for Barnes and Noble, and you just request to do a book signing.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: So then what I do is I usually request in late September to early October to do it between Black Friday and sometime in December.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: So so that I'm there when there's a lot of traffic, a lot of consumers.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Now, to set your book up for being in their system, you have to go through a whole process.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, not obviously not just publishing on Amazon, because then it's not gonna be able to get it into Barnes Noble.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, let's let's talk about some of the things that are involved in that.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: Um I know something that is really important is having your own imprint for your book.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: And if authors are just publishing on Amazon, then uh and they don't have their own book imprint, then that's gonna really be a problem as far as getting into bookstores.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Can you walk us through what does that mean to have your own imprint and why is that important?
12:20
SPEAKER_02: So that distinguishes you as a professional, and someone may not know uh that your imprint is that you're the only one publishing books under that imprint.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: So, because uh some small press imprints, they you know might publish 20, 30, 50 books a year.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: So um you don't necessarily need to set up a limited liability corporation, you just need to choose a name, a name of your ministry, you know, the whatever name for your imprint you're going to use.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: You need to create a logo, you already have the city and the state that your a company is in.
13:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so that's all you need.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: So when you go to publish your book on the copyright page, you're putting that your imprint is uh mine's Christian Indy Publishing, comma, L L C.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: So uh that's that's all you need.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: And that really gives the impression that you have your own publishing house.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: Or not that people would need to know this, um, it gives the impression that it's published through a publishing house or or also called a publisher, obviously.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Which is pretty cool.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: It it just gives the impression that, hey, this is a professional deal that we're running here.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
13:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: And where would where would people how does that interface with the publishing process?
13:48
SPEAKER_00: So somebody chooses a name for their imprint, uh, whatever that might be, and then you enter that on the Bauker or the MyIdentifiers.com website when you're getting your ISBN, and also on Amazon and Ingram Spark and really wherever you're going to publish, correct?
14:05
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a lot simpler than what it seems.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: It seems very intimidating, and yet it's quite simple.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: That was the case I know when I first uh set up my business a number of years ago.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: I thought, man, what's involved in setting up a business?
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Do I have to like go to the county seat in the courthouse and talk to somebody and like prove that I'm a legit person?
14:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, what's involved in this?
14:29
SPEAKER_00: But it turns out all I had to do was just spend 10 minutes on the you know, the state business website and pay for an LLC, and that was that.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: You know, people have different ways of doing it, but it was really simple.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:42
SPEAKER_02: It depends upon your state.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: Florida was very simple as well to set up an LLC.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: I know other states probably make it a little bit more difficult.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what states those are, but I know every state kind of does things a little bit differently.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: So one thing I wanted to ask about uh is the barcode, another area of potential confusion that people have.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: And in one of the guides that you have uh for SIPO, uh, and your guides are so helpful, and I'm so so grateful for these because I learned something every time I go through these.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you talk about the EAN barcode as well as the retail price that's printed on the back cover.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: So walk us through what's actually involved in getting a barcode and what is how is the EAN barcode different than maybe what Amazon or Ingram would provide, and uh anything you can tell us about that?
15:30
SPEAKER_02: So you can from uh Valker's purchase the EAN barcode.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: So, or you can just go on to Amazon and they would have a barcode there, and Ingram Spark would as well.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: So uh it it has here that the EAN barcode is what is needed on the back cover, and then that's right, you got to go through Balker's or my myidentifiers.com to get that if you want to be in Barnes and Noble.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: So you also you can also go on to the guidelines online under Barnes and Noble's under authors and publishers, and go through each of their steps of what they're requiring.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: So you can check it and you know, verify what they're needing as of this date.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: So you have to get a barcode through Fauker and not just the ISBN number, is that correct?
16:31
SPEAKER_02: Well, the ISBN number is different, you know.
16:33
SPEAKER_02: The ISBN number it is is going to be back there.
16:38
SPEAKER_02: And and when you're publishing on these different sites, of course, you know, you're you're entering your ISBN number in Ingram Spark, and you're entering it into Kindle Direct Publishing.
16:51
SPEAKER_02: And then with the with the barcode, then you've got it, you know, your ISBN number right there.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: But in addition to that, what you need to have is you need to have your price, your retail price, as well as your um, not your Amazon category, but the uh BISAC code, the book industry standard code that tells them that okay, if this book is going to be in the in the exercise section or the healthy living section or in the devotional section.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: Because at Barnes and Noble, when someone is going to be shelving your book, they want to know where to put it.
17:36
SPEAKER_02: And when they're selling your book, they want to know how much the retail price is.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: And it's right there on the book.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: Of course, it would be in their system too, but it it should be on the book as well.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: So you're saying purchase, go ahead and purchase the barcode through Bacher, not just the ISBN number.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: Like I said, go to Barnes and Noble and verify what their requirements are on their website for whether you need an EAN barcode or you could use the Ingram Spark barcode.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's funny how this stuff changes.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and things update and thing.
18:24
SPEAKER_00: I think this is oftentimes why self-published authors sometimes get really frustrated because it's like there's this is such a complex web of things that you have to sort of navigate.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: But isn't that the case with any business though?
18:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, any anybody in any kind of a business, you're always navigating different regulations and rules and industry things and the marketplace and the the culture.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: And so it's kind of like you have to have this attitude of, okay, I'm gonna jump in here and figure this out.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you do.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: You have to give yourself a pep talk.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: I can do this, you know, change, change.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: It's just part of life, isn't it?
19:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it really is.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: I look at people like um, I watched a documentary not too long ago, or not a documentary, uh CBS Sunday morning uh segment on Dick Van Dyck, who is, I don't remember how old he is, like 97 or 98 or something.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And he still dances and exercises and does all those things.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: And uh I thought, man, if this guy can show up in life and be this chipper and this positive and still get out and move every day, that's pretty cool.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, then then I'm like some young whippersnapper like me, I can I can figure things out and I can make it happen too.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, we can.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: One thing that you mentioned in your guide as well is making your book available through a major distributor and not just Ingram Spark.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: And that's actually something that I had never heard of.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And I'm really glad that you included it in there.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, can you talk about what does that mean to have your book available through a major distributor and how to go about getting that done?
20:00
SPEAKER_02: So if it's a Christian distributor, the two major ones are Spring Arbor and Anchor.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: And uh Spring Arbor is affiliated with Ingram Spark, and you need to request your book to get into Spring Arbor.
20:16
SPEAKER_02: So that's how you get it into there.
20:19
SPEAKER_02: And then with Anchor, it's much more difficult, and you have to go onto their website and see about doing that.
20:26
SPEAKER_02: But I have not found that to be easy.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: I've just been able to carry mine on Spring Arbor, but um, you know, some other list of distributors.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: I went on to the um Ingram Spark website and checked that out, and it said um to email a specific person, and they could send you a current list of distributors that they use for their books.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: So uh I would recommend that your listeners would go ahead and do that, find out who the distributors are, and then try and uh research about how to get their book into those distribution channels.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: And again, a lot of this is just figuring out who to connect with.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes just sending that person an email and asking, how do I do this?
21:23
SPEAKER_00: It's it seems kind of very, you know, in our age of AI and high-tech stuff and smartphones, that seems kind of an antiquated way to do things, but sometimes that is the fastest way to get something done, isn't it?
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, sure is.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Crazy as that sounds.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing I wanted to ask about as well is uh anybody who's published on Ingram Spark knows that you have to go through this process of checking the boxes about what kind of returns you're willing to accept and what the rates are and and all that.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And this is a point of confusion that I hear from a lot with authors is about this whole issue of returns.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what's in Involved in this and should we accept returns as indie authors and and how do we navigate this whole issue of returns?
22:07
SPEAKER_02: We should absolutely yes accept returns.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: So uh because if you don't then then the you know many of the these smaller uh bookstores are they might not ever you know try your book out.
22:24
SPEAKER_02: But if if they can return it, well you know, they they don't have to, you know, take the risk.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: So you take the risk.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, if your book is well written and it looks great and you know, hopefully it would sell.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: But for me, I'll tell you, I get a box, a small box of books once or twice a year.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: I think last year I only got one box and uh and it's the returned books from um Ingram Spark from the bookstores.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
23:00
SPEAKER_02: And and uh they're in excellent shape.
23:04
SPEAKER_02: So when I go and speak at writers' conferences or or speak anywhere else, that's those are the books I sell.
23:12
SPEAKER_02: I sell those books that I because they're like brand new, beautiful books.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:17
SPEAKER_02: And and they you can check to either have the books destroyed or returned to you.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: Get them returned to you.
23:23
SPEAKER_02: That's great.
23:24
SPEAKER_02: I don't have to order books now for speaking at this event.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: It doesn't bother me in the least.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: I my wife was a manager of Barnes Noble for 10 years, uh years ago.
23:36
SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: So she's seen it all, heard it all, done it all uh in that world, at least.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: And it was always crazy to me because I didn't realize that so many times uh and maybe this is just the case with magazines where if magazines didn't sell, they would just destroy them, you know, as opposed to returning them, because you can't really sell a magazine that is six months out of date.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: I just always thought, what a crazy system where you just destroy your inventory.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the other option would be with magazines, but I know the returns were a big deal because then they would, you know, they would have this person in the back in kind of the warehouse section of the store, they would have to pack up all these returns and send them back to the publisher.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's a super inefficient system, but I I don't know any other way that you would do it though.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:26
SPEAKER_02: And and they're all sent back to Ingram Spark or else Spring Arbor and then they're shipped to the author.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: So does that happen a lot with with I I guess more indie book, well, Barnes and Noble or any physical bookstore.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Does it happen a lot where if a book is not moving, then they'll just send it back just to make other shelf space?
24:48
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, within ninety days, if if you know, let's say they got two of your books and in ninety days not one of them has sold.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: You know?
24:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, if one of them sold and there's only one left, okay, they're gonna keep it another ninety days.
25:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: Most likely, but right.
25:05
SPEAKER_02: After ninety days is usually they they want some they want it to be moving.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: But then then does that cost you as the author?
25:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh we're charged back for uh the shipping, but you know, I sell my books then.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: I just don't worry about it.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: So it's either not make any profit because you're not selling them through those channels, or you make some profit, but then you also take a little bit of a hit on the shipping for the returns, which are hopefully going to be a small percentage of the ones that you sold through those channels.
25:40
SPEAKER_02: Right, because I only got one box last year.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: So it's only shipping of one box of books, and it wasn't it wasn't, you know, too large.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: So see, the I I love your the way that you're thinking about this because a lot of times we're just looking at the expense of something rather than the opportunity.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's the way it is with any business opportunity, really, is there's a risk that maybe you're gonna take a hit on something, or you may not win a hundred percent of the time, or you may get books returned, or whatever it is.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: But that's just if you if kind of if you want to be a big boy or a big girl girl author, this is kind of what it what it takes.
26:20
SPEAKER_00: We'll get back to the conversation in just a moment, but first I want to take a second to give a big thanks to today's sponsor, The Word Wizard.
26:27
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27:04
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27:13
SPEAKER_00: Now back to the conversation.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Susan, I love the way you're thinking about that because it's this attitude of basically being a big girl or a big boy author.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're willing to do the things that are required.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes things don't always work out when you have a business, including an author business.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: And you have returns and you have little things that you're gonna have to navigate and figure out.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: And so I I love the overall just like assertive attitude of I'm gonna do this and yeah, we're gonna have some returns, probably, but we're gonna sell a whole bunch more books than that.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: I I think that's just a really cool way to approach this.
27:50
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, because I can sell the books then for full price.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Love that.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: So, how many how many bookstores do you think is appropriate for somebody to talk to in their area?
28:06
SPEAKER_00: So let's say they have maybe a couple Barnes and Nobles, if in a metro area, um, they have indie bookstores.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: Would you I guess my first question is, would you talk to each of those stores differently?
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Like an indie bookstore that's just a it's one person who owns a bookstore versus Barnes and Noble.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Is there something different that you would say to those, to those people uh in terms of carrying your book or anything like that?
28:31
SPEAKER_02: No, I would approach them all the same.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think there's around five that I I deal with, three Barnes and Noble, and then two other independent stores.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: And like with the independent store, uh, they had a real low local authors section.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: And so they carried a lot of my books, and they were they were much easier to get into with carrying my books.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: So I would um approach all of them with you in your area.
29:01
SPEAKER_02: I've just chosen like a 75 to 90 minute drive time.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: So I I live in the Pensacola area, so I go over to Dustin, Fort Walton Beach, Pensacola, Mobile, Spanish Fort, and then the small places in between.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: And when when you're talking to these, to the bookstore owners, um, I know that or managers, I know that they get a lot of authors to approach them who want something from them.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, can can I set up a signing?
29:33
SPEAKER_00: Can you sell my book?
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Can you do this or that?
29:36
SPEAKER_00: What are some things that those managers or owners would be looking for from authors?
29:41
SPEAKER_00: And I guess in other words, how can you be a good author to those bookstores?
29:46
SPEAKER_00: What are some things you could do to support what they're doing and make them feel like, hey, this isn't just a one-way street?
29:52
SPEAKER_02: So what you do is when you are going to be doing a book signing like at Barnes and Noble, they're gonna post it on social media.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: So you want to friend the store on social media.
30:05
SPEAKER_02: You want to then post your own information about you're going to be at this bookstore on this date, and you tag them.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: So they're seeing that you as an author are publicizing.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: You have people coming to the store looking for you because you have publicized, because you've sent out to your email list.
30:27
SPEAKER_02: And uh, I have I've had people come to where my book signing was, and she says, I saw it on Facebook that you're gonna be here.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, so she wanted to come and see me, and it was just thrilling.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: So you want to do that at Christmas time, you know, I could bring a goodie to them.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, you're coming there for a book signing.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: Here's a platter of uh, you know, some cookies or whatever for your staff that you can have in the back, or or here's a little goodie bag for you, you know, something like that.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: And you want to be on time.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, something else I do is I tell them if you're doing any author event and you and you would like me to come, you just let me know, I'll be there.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: For example, uh Barnes and Noble in Pensacola.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: One time they had um like a multi-artist event, and they had about three authors and two musicians, and and so there was probably seven of us who had different items that were for sale in the Barnes and Noble, and it was a whole event, and and it was you know, several hours.
31:34
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we are also giving up our time.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: And um, another thing to do is while you're at the store on social media, you want to post pictures, you know, and say I'm here and you you post like you know, I go outside and I post a picture, I post a picture inside, and so you're really promoting that store's brand.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: They love that, of course.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Yep, and you tagged them.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if there's a way when you are if you're in um so I live in St.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Peter's, Missouri.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, our Barnes and Noble is known as the one on Mid River's Mall Drive, that's the name of the street that it's on.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Does corporate see when people post about specific Barnes Noble stores?
32:22
SPEAKER_00: I wonder.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, did does that in other words, does that help if if I'm an author and I do a signing in our local one, uh, and I mention our local store, I don't know if the local stores have their own social media handles or not, but I wonder if if that helps the manager at our local store with the corporate side of things, makes them look better or something.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: If they sell more books, it does.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Yes, which is down to their comes down to their bottom line.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, each store has their own social media page and handle.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes, each one is separate.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: I always think of, you know, when you're when you're trying to help somebody, they really want their boss to notice them and they want to look good and have results and everything.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: So I imagine the authors who go out of their way to try and make the store more successful, not just themselves, they're probably going to become one of their favorite authors.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, something else you could do, even to you could just uh when you're there, you could give them a stack of your uh, you know, bookmarks and say, you know, can you would you mind putting those by the cash register?
33:29
SPEAKER_02: And if anybody wants to take a bookmark, then there they go.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: They got free bookmarks.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
33:36
SPEAKER_02: And and like for me, I have uh three of my books on mine.
33:41
SPEAKER_02: I've got my seven steps to get off sugar and carbohydrates, the Christian study guide that goes with that, and the healthy living journal.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: And I have that on one side with all three book covers and the website.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: Then you turn it over, and I have the Healthy Living series, three books in one.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: And I have that uh book cover because I made a mega book with all three books in one, and so I'm able to promote four books with one bookmark.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty cool.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, before we start to wrap this up, um, I want to ask about libraries.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Now I know I know libraries is a whole separate ball of wax than bookstores.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: And it's a um potentially a much more complex thing because you have to go through all these different channels and all kinds of stuff.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: But you mentioned something before I hit record in this conversation that is a really great way to start to start to get your book into libraries.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering if you can share that strategy because I thought that was genius.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: So it's it again, it's very simple because some things can be just this simple is to tell, send an email or tell all your family and friends that if they go, if they have a um, you know, they're a member of the library, they can go on to their public library online and request that they carry a book.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: It's all online, it's very simple.
35:13
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, they just need to add the ISBN number and title, and you as an author can give that information to all your friends and families and ask them to please take five minutes to go online and copy and paste this information in there.
35:30
SPEAKER_02: And then if you had 20 people, you could have 20 counties, you know, carrying your books in their libraries by a simple request.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: I feel like libraries are this really incredible, underutilized resource, especially for independent authors, because people go there and obviously there's like hundreds or hundreds of thousands or thousands of books in a local library, and people are there because they love books.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: But so many times we just think of Amazon or Ingram Spark or other kinds of you know, email lists and social media.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: But man, people are going to libraries because they love books, and it just seems like, man, what a cool resource if we just take a little bit of time to serve our libraries and and be a good patron of those and and interface with them really well.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: So I've I early on went to my public library, met the librarian, and um asked to do a book signing, and and I did, and then she was doing a big author event at another time, and that was very worthwhile because that was well publicized, and you had a lot of people coming in because there were many of us there scattered throughout the library, and so I gave her copies of my books, she knew who I was when I walked in.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: So you with with um the managers of libraries, the managers of bookstores, they are your um great people to get to know, good resources, yes, for an author.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: How does a library so so we talked about the bottom line a minute ago with with bookstores?
37:18
SPEAKER_00: So they measure success in a lot of ways, but the bottom line is like that's what really moves the needle, obviously.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: How do libraries measure success?
37:27
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's not in people buying books from them.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Is it the number of books checked out?
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Is it the number of patrons who are coming into the door?
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, how do libraries figure out if they're successful or not?
37:38
SPEAKER_02: I think it would be the number of books that are being checked out.
37:41
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it can't always be uh who walks in the door, because you know, a few years ago when we did have the pandemic, yeah, that's true, it was there was a lot fewer, but uh, you know, still uh we're checking out lots of books.
37:57
SPEAKER_02: And uh how many are there of this of uh of us in the county who are using their resources?
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I would assume um, you know, the more people who are borrowing books digitally or physically, that's kind of why they exist.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: So the more that we can do as authors to encourage people to read and to use their local library, that makes them happy and and helps them be more successful with their mission.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Susan, this has been an absolute blast.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I'm blown away at your depth of knowledge with all of this stuff, honestly.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: And you have given people a real gift in not just sharing your wisdom on this podcast episode, but in what you put together with with Ken and Sipa.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: These are really, really cool resources.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: Can you remind people once again how they can connect with you uh via those and also how they can join?
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: So they can go to ChristianPublishers.net and they can find out all the information there.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: And if anybody would ever want any coaching on book marketing or how to independently publish a book, I provide that coaching at Susan U.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: That's the letter U, Neil, N E A L dot com.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: And uh if if you do join Um SEPA or can through ChristianPublishers.net, I'm just an email away and a resource for you.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and again, these are really, really amazing resources.
39:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that I've joined.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: And I'm also a partner because it's kind of fun to be one of the cool kids.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you again.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: This has been an absolute blast.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to get this episode out to people.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: And um, God bless, you're doing such an amazing work in the world.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Kent, thank you for having me, and thank you for all you do.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: It's totally my pleasure.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Wasn't that an amazing conversation with Susan?
39:56
SPEAKER_00: I hope that you took as many notes as I did uh during that conversation because Susan is not only wise and really, really smart with all these things, she's also really successful in her own right as an author.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: So I hope that you will check out her books, and I also hope that if you are an author of faith, if you're writing from a faith-based background, that you will check out the Christian Indie Publishing Association.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, I am a member myself.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: It is a really, really phenomenal resource, and she has priced it in a very, very attractive way.
40:27
SPEAKER_00: So this is kind of like a no-brainer sort of a deal.
40:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh if you get my drift.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: So make sure and sign up for that.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: You can do so by going to ChristianPublishers.net.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: That's ChristianPublishers.net.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: A huge thanks to Susan for making time to be a guest on today's episode.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: She's really, really busy with her own writing and book marketing and running STEPA, uh, which is a Christian any publishing association.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: And uh gosh, I just so appreciated Susan taking time out to be a guest on our episode today.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Hey, my friend, as always, I really, really appreciate you listening, and I will see you next time.