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The Government Mule #10 - Chris Rauchenstein & Josh Starks · The Government Mule

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're listening to the County Line Podcast, production of the Tulsa County Board of County Commissioners.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the County Line uh podcast.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh today with me, uh I've got two individuals that uh really paved the way, no pun intended, uh, in our transportation uh improvements and infrastructure throughout the state of Oklahoma uh and many other things.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We've got with us Rich Vere, executive former executive director of ENCOG and uh Secretary of Transportation Tim Gatz.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, everybody.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you being here today.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Commissioner.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: Likewise.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to be here.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, glad to have you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh it's exciting for me uh being a transportation-minded person.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, anytime we talk about roads and bridges and infrastructure, uh, it's something that I think it resonates with the taxpayers.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's the one thing that public safety, yes, but transportation, their tax dollars, they feel when they hit a road, a pothole or a bad road, um, they're adamant that that's where their tax dollars should be going to.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Tim, you you've had a career 37 years at the state of Oklahoma uh with Oklahoma Department of Transportation.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Just recently announced your retirement um coming up uh here in a week or so.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is that yes, sir, a week from today?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um I I'll just read a few things about each of you uh just so our viewers uh understand the the depth of experience that you all have brought to the state and that you and really the impact you've made uh throughout the state and the country.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you began in 1990?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, sir.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And tell us a little bit about that when you started and what how you ended up being the Secretary of Transportation.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: You you know, when uh in 1990, uh, of course, Henry Bellman was our governor, so that puts that on a little bit of a perspective.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but you know, times in Oklahoma were were a little bit tough.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so I was grateful for any opportunity to work.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, just graduated college in in 89 from OSU.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, ODOT had a position opening as entry level as a as a drafting tech.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: And uh again, I was I did not want to leave Oklahoma.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to stay here, and it was gonna be the job I had till I got my next job, right?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: So just an opportunity.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh got into it, loved the work, and never looked back.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: And again, it's it's just in this industry, transportation in general, there's so much work to be done.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And in government, and Commissioner and Rich both, you know this uniquely.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: At the end of the day, the ability to look back and see that you've accomplished something is extremely important to me.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, so I fit in the transportation sector very, very well.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and Tim, you've you've at the national level, you've been very active in in national associations and received uh multiple awards.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, I know you don't like to talk about those.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it you're just doing your job, but uh tell us about some of the groups you've worked with.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the at the national level, our American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, that's called Ashto.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, that's is a is a representation of all state DOTs.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: And Ashto is is really that 30,000-foot view about everything that everybody's doing.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a great place to go to get good ideas and sometimes to to figure out what not to do.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're learning from what other DOTs are doing, where they're having success, where where they might not be having success.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: And uh there's a whole committee structure that goes along with that.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh most recently I chair the committee on funding and finance uh for Ashto.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I get as much from interacting with those committee members, with the other DOTs.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: I I get as much out of that as anybody does.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, it's an honor to be able to sit with with the brightest minds in transportation funding and finance and uh get to interact in dialogue with them.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh that's a the ability to work with groups like Ashton.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: And and for that matter, the county group and and uh AMPO with the with the MPO areas, the interaction there, and and you guys know Oklahoma does this better than anybody, right?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: So we I feel like bring a lot to the table at the national level about how to partner and how to work together and how to accomplish things.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, well, well, I know speaking with our federal delegation and former Gen Senator Ann Hoff and and our current delegation, uh uh they mentioned more than once uh what what it means to them to have you in your position, how well respected you are across the country.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it it it makes their jobs easier when when Tim Gatz is speaking on behalf of transportation and national issues, and and uh we have somebody like yourself uh from Oklahoma and and uh uh commend you for that and all the work you've done there.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I get that too, and Rich, I know you're on your national associations, but uh it's it's about Oklahoma.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's for me, it's about Tulsa County.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're not at the table hearing from other county commissioners and your colleagues from around the country and hearing all the different deals, things they're dealing with, whether it's soil erosion or droughts or whatever it may be, uh it just uh it it increases your knowledge on a national perspective and and helps you maneuver on issues that come up in your own district.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So uh Rich, you you my goodness, you've outlasted all of us.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh uh not too many people have a 53-year career in one place.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh the all the things that NCOG has that touches on a daily basis and the amount of funding that comes to the Tulsa region that uh you make sure they're distributed in the right areas.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about your beginnings at University of Tulsa, how you ended up here and how you end up being the executive director.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So uh at the University of Tulsa.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was in an intern program, so I had an internship with INCOG.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, it was not my first choice.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: The my first choice was to work for the city finance commissioner, uh, but that was uh not his first choice.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So INCOG was a second choice, but uh worked there as an intern, offered a position, graduated uh an urban studies program, which was economics, political science, and sociology.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So great, great program at the university.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So uh after um I had graduated, executive director, uh one of the other staff people said, uh, Jerry, uh, when are you gonna offer Rich a job?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: He said, Well, uh, I'm gonna offer him a job now, but uh, but there's one condition.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: He has to stay for two years.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, I'm just right out of school, don't have anything else going on.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is a good opportunity.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think I can do two years.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: So uh kind of the rest is history and just great opportunity and new challenges all the time.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so it's just been an amazing, amazing run.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, won't you tell some of our viewers all the things that INCOG does?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So uh INCOG's involved in a tremendous number of different things.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: But so as we talk to new elected officials, uh, new board members, often the comment is, well, we knew INCOG did this, we knew INCOG did that, we had no idea he did all these other things.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um we're recognized as a metropolitan planning organization or transportation planning.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we we work very closely with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with Secretary Gass for 35 years, and it's been a uh great relationship.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're also an economic development district that allows us to access federal uh EDA funds or the area agency on aging.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: We do a tremendous amount of work in housing and community development, so so multiple uh activities uh under the umbrella of income.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Food for senior citizens.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: About a quarter of a million uh meals for uh on an annual basis uh for our seniors.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's phenomenal.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh it's so important.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And as a former mayor in a smaller community uh umpteen years ago, um it was really a lifeline to for your organization uh to really reach out to us or for us to be a part of it to understand what's available for our seniors, our seniors, our our community, and and the planning that you had brought, because at one time NCOG pretty much uh organized all the planning for most of the municipalities.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that's kind of changed over the years, but uh it was it was very important and uh uh to be engaged to really know what's what's out there for your communities to reach to.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh what uh Tim and in you know in looking at retirement, what are some of the projects that uh probably you've both been involved in from time to time, but uh what are some of the most uh rewarding projects that uh you're that you have uh seen through and uh what are some that you know in the future that uh you think need to be addressed?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the the good part about being one of the old guys is uh we've seen a lot.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that I can take you all the way back to uh things like the Creek Turnpike, the original Creek Turnpike.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: And as we watch some of that development happen and uh work closely with with the Turnpike Authority, and again, uh I I want to give uh Rich and NCOG, they're always there.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're there helping us to solve problems.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: So the Creek Turnpike in particular started, and and Rich and I were working together about that time period, expanding and enhancing our trail systems here in Tulsa.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we had some federal funding that was coming through the program, and uh Rich was the best that I have ever seen at really not forcing issues, but advocating for issues in the right way and getting the right kind of attention on it to make progress.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: And the the trail system that the the Tulsa region has today, this man here is responsible for it.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because he never stopped.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: He always advocated, he always pushed, and the quality of life aspect that that has added to to the community and the area, I don't I don't want to understate how huge a deal that is for Tulsa.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so that that seems insignificant, but I promise you it's not.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that quality of life is a job attractor.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it improves the the health and safety of your citizens.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so that was, you know, that's kind of where we started really interacting.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we've worked together on so many projects since then.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look at the Tulsa region over the last three and a half decades, think about what's happened.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Think about what I-44 used to be from the Will Rogers Turnpike to the Turner Turnpike through Tulsa.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: It was not nearly what it needed to be.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we've worked on that for three decades, still working on it today, got a little bit, a little bit to go.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but that highway and that artery is so much better than what it used to be.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and I can I can go down the list, you know, Broken Arrow Expressway, I-44, Gilcreast Expressway, uh, I-244, and the IDL during a very difficult time in this nation's history, uh, we were able to invest in bridge infrastructure down there uh on the IDL interdispersal loop and accomplish something nobody thought we could do.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody thought that we could we could build a project like that in the timeframe we built it in.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason we could do it is because of partnerships, interaction, community engagement, and uh again, NCOG played a huge role in that.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's a it's such a long list.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look at at again, those partnerships, Cinder Inhoff, and again, Highway 412 has always wanted to be an interstate.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's super important to this region, and it's super important to the state of Oklahoma.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: That artery is going to be part of the success of not just Oklahoma, but of the whole Southeast region.
• 14:16
  unknown: Wow.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: And Rich has advocated, I think the first time we we talked, we were probably talking about 412 needing to be I-42.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: And to get to have Senator Enhoff get that into statute, that this this designation is gonna happen.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: It sets a target for us to work towards, and it's gonna take some discipline and some time.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but we're gonna put that I-42 designation on 412.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: That may be the crown jewel in Rich's career, because again, he was the one that I point to that really pushed that and really advocated to make that happen.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Rich, let's talk about the 412 and that designation.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, so uh what we uh excuse me.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um when we look at interstate highways, so often on an economic development perspective, you have companies that say, we want to locate within so many miles of an interstate highway.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you look across the country, so Tulsa at I-44, so most other metropolitan areas at two, three, four, five interstate highways.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: You look just down the turnpike, Oklahoma City, I-44, I-40, I-35.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: So when we really analyzed it, we saw that we didn't have the connections that were important for our future.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And interstate highways are the safest highways.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: You think about uh 412 today, where you have at-grade crossings.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you have people that don't want to get on the highway, but crossing the highway.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we've had far too many fatality accidents.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: So safety, economic development, uh, all of those are critically important.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's partnerships.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is in process.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be focus, continuing focus to get it done.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: ODOT is working diligently on that.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first piece we will see is from I-35 to Tulsa.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's one at grade interchange that'll be or crossing that'll be replaced with a bridge and an intersection.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna see that interstate sign.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the connection with Northwest Arkansas.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Northwest Arkansas is one of the fastest growing metropolitan areas in the country that we are economically and historically connected with.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so furthering that connection is critically important.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the stars were wide.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Senator Enhoff uh was able to secure the congressionally designated feature interstate.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I tell the story um a number of uh years ago, my wife and I were going to Kansas City in December.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we're driving up the quickest way to get to Kansas City, I-44, go past Joplin, take Highway 71, go north.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: So we're driving up in December.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: So he had all these signs on the side of the road with black trash bags over it.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: We drive back to Tulsa three days later, we're on I-49.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: This was, and this is a memorable time.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: This was 12-12 of 2012.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, but that was a congressionally designated future interstate.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we have that we're on that path to do the same thing with 412.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, and Secretary Gatz, for that designation, I meant it it sounds as if there's going to be some financial investment to get that level of safety for those structures, those highways.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: And what you'll see in progress, and again, just as Rich pointed out, we've got one location on the west side of Tulsa that still has an at-grade connection to 412.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Once that's mitigated and and we have a controlled access facility, we'll be able to put the I-42 designation from I-35 all the way to the Will Rogers turnpike.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you'll have I-42.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that's near term.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Trapper Parks, our our district engineer up here right now, is working on getting that together and making that happen.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it gets more challenging once you get east of Tulsa and start towards West Sidem Springs.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: We've got more at grade intersections that we've got to address.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: So that means County Road over.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_03: We've got to grade separate those.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there's a there is a growing need for additional and better interchanges uh along the 412 route east of Tulsa.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and just as Rich points out, primary concern number one is safety.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: And and we've had an enormous safety problem east of Tulsa that we've we've tried to mitigate, but the only way to really take care of this properly is going to be to control access and and again build interchanges where you don't have those grade at grade crossings.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: That that's expensive work, that's longer-term work, but we've got to start.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and Commissioner, and you guys know this infinitely better than I do, but if you look at what's happening in Northwest Arkansas, and if you look at what's happening in the Tulsa Metropolitan and Green Country, and the dynamics that are developing in that connection is 412, when you have a more powerful, strong connection with Northwest Arkansas to Tulsa, and then Tulsa to Oklahoma City, it changes the entire market dynamic for this region.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: And again, it it's it's gonna continue to grow.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: The good news is we've had people that were visionary that pushed these issues and kept them at the forefront, and now we've got a target.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: So let's go hit it.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna take us some time.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but again, Trapper and the and the ODOT team is working on it, and when we are are finished with that, and it it doesn't take uh you know too much effort to to connect the dots because you know you got prior creek in Mid-America.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh some of the strongest industrial footprint that we've got uh in the state of Oklahoma is is here in Green Country.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's it's because of all the you know policy, infrastructure.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we've we've created the right environment for that type of development.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it's a it's a super exciting time.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: But uh but again, without direction, commitment, and diligence, you we will never get there.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: And and again, that that's been put in place now, so we've got something to work towards.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the uh this was long-range planning, it didn't happen overnight.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like decades of of work of continuing to push that and and uh uh you know, and you don't stop.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it it it never stops.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, on on the county front, I can uh attest uh uh the state.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we recently uh passed a legislation that uh gave county roads and bridges a massive influence.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Flux on a yearly basis from the PAC funding.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it started here in Tulsa County and uh NCOG was a big part of that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've said before, you know, we we kind of got tired of hearing all the successes the state did on the on their bridges.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you you're you're to be commended on that.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it didn't happen overnight.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a 20-year process, but the state found itself of having one of the worst in the country, uh, structurally efficient bridge bridges.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and they rolled their sleeves up, they found the funding eight-year plan and stayed on it uh until you know one of what top fourth, uh fourth in the country of safest bridges in the United States.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So uh kudos to you know just the region of of getting behind that eight-year plan and and knocking those bridges out.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we kind of emulated that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: And um it, you know, Rich was was a big part of that, getting it uh at the Tulsa Chamber on the legislative, uh, because counties were deficient on their bridges and still are, and uh making that uh aware to uh our legislatures.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Secretary Gachi, you came down with with Senator Haste and others.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: We toured the bridges in North Tulsa County.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and this wasn't a program for North Tulsa County, this was a program for the state of Oklahoma, every county that had structured deficient bridges.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh a lot of hard work, a lot of partnerships.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you guys think comments on on that program itself.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh, first of all, I think the the state is to be commended for the work on highway bridges.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we went from one of the worst in the country in terms of structurally deficient bridges.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: What, over 1,400, uh about 50 or so right now.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So 1,400 to 50.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: So focused attention with a policy direction that has result tremendous results for that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of county bridges, so there are a lot of structurally deficient bridges, even in Tulsa County.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have bridges that we toured that were built shortly after statehood.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: They're built, one of them that we toured, built in 1912, another one built in 1920.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that are still used today.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're structurally deficient.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're school buses cannot cross those bridges.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: So uh shining a light on that issue, and again, partnerships with Senator Haste, the whole delegation that really was instrumental in getting resources that will now be devoted to that, working with the counties to address the county bridges.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: That so and all of this gets back to safety.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the more direct routes you have for these school buses to have to drive miles out of the way because they can't get across a creek, something like that.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So the focus on that's important and and again, tremendous partnership with ODOT that's stepping forward to help help our counties address that.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and that's one thing I continue to tell people of as far as ODOT's involvement in it.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this wasn't any funding for ODOT.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't helping ODOT's bridge and road systems, but yet uh they understood uh Secretary Gatz understood the need for structurally deficient bridges on whoever system it's on.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we can't thank you enough for your engagement in that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and and Commissioner, it you know, the connection that we have to the citizens we serve.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh just as you point out, the folks I work for don't care whether it's a city street, a county road, or a highway.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they want them all to be good, and and it's up to us to forge those partnerships to make it that way to the to the extent that we can.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, the the PAC fund and the work that was done around that, it it's more than just putting some more resources towards fixing the problem.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's bringing attention to it.
• 26:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: And and Oklahoma is still a is still a an energy producing state, not just oil and gas anymore, solar, wind, all of the above.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: And we're an agricultural state.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: We are a manufacturing state.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: We still make things here.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: All of that traffic does not happen on the highway system.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_03: It happens on county roads and city streets, and the and the folks that go to work every day to to manufacturing jobs.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, they have to have a way to get there.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it's up to us to figure out how to work together to provide it.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: And a structurally deficient bridge, a bridge in poor condition on any part of that system is something that is not good for any of us.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: So again, we found ways to to work together.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: The the best thing about Oklahoma is we advocate for each other.
• 27:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I think that's that's been if I can point to anything that is part of our success, uh, it's that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: We we know how to work together.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it you would be surprised that the the county commissioners that have came up to to me and others to say thank you for that.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh Representative Caldwell and Senator Haste, I believe that was their bill that uh they put forth.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And and our partnerships in bringing awareness and working on this uh ended resulted in a$75 million reoccurring funding every year, providing the funding's there, but reoccurring funding uh uh for for these issues.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's the largest in state history for county government, roads and bridges, and um just you know, and it was unanimous in the House.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't one no vote, which is unheard of.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so everybody understood it, they got behind it, and a big part of it is is uh lead by example.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: I meant uh you all meaning ODOT has shown uh how you work hard and address an issue like you did for 20 some years taking care of these bridges, and now we have one of the safe bridges, bridge uh uh inventory in the country.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and so you know we'll get there.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: This you know, county bridges, it won't happen overnight, but it's being addressed and looked at.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so that kind of leads me also into uh you know funding for our infrastructure, our roads, our bridges at the state level and even at the county level.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um what concerns you, what uh uh what you have hope in, Secretary, that uh we're addressing the right focus and and uh where the resources are going to come, where they're gonna go to, is it the turnpikes, is it, you know, what what uh what interests you or you know, Commissioner, I'd tell you when you when you look at transportation funding, and and I'll turn the clock back to 2006, that's a that's a that is a key date, and I I benchmark to it all the time.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: The Roads Fund, rebuilding Oklahoma Access and Driver Safety Roads.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: The Roads Fund came into being in 2006.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: From 2006 to about 2020 is when we moved that needle to the green because we had more resources available to us.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: And the roads fund was growing, so we were able to get more and more work done.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: And during that time period is when we went from 49th in the country to number four.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: What we're seeing now that concerns me is number one in, and I'm gonna say heavy highway construction, but it's road construction of all types.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter whether it's a city street or a county road.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: The the construction cost index from 2020 to today is the equivalent of compressing 18 years worth of inflation, yeah, past inflation, into about three.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: So we've been hit far beyond what the consumer prices index has done to a loaf of bread, uh, to the tune of three or four times the amount of inflation that we've experienced.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that reduction in buying power coupled with relatively flat revenues, um, that's problematic for long-term investment in infrastructure.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna have to start to think about that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: And not in a not in a panic, not because we're not there.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're not in the same place we were back in 2006.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're far better.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: But we've got to start to talk about how we are going to fund the transportation system, city, county, state, that our citizens are gonna need for the future.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: I made a comment yesterday that all of us, we are in the ladder building business because infrastructure builds ladders to the future.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it's we're what we do is for the next generation.
• 31:22
  unknown: Right.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so we've got to start to think about that.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: What are the mechanisms and means we're gonna use to make sure our citizens have the infrastructure that they're gonna need for the future?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a serious conversation right now as we watch motor fuel tax begin to flatten.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's gonna continue because our our cars are gonna get more fuel efficient, electric vehicles are gonna become more and more prevalent out there, even though Oklahoma's got some really strong electric vehicle policy on the books, uh, thanks to Kyle Hilbert and the legislature.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: We are still gonna have to have this difficult conversation about what are we gonna do to generate the revenue to take care of the bridge infrastructure, to take care of our pavements, to eliminate the travel time reliability problems that we have in all regions of the state.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: The old funding of gasoline tax just isn't keeping up.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: And with those fuel efficiencies, it's getting less and less.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know at the county level it's it's flat as our inflationary numbers have gone up.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: We we're doing less mileage because we can't afford it.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, what does that look like?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know uh 15-20 years ago they tried a one cent tax to to emulate Kansas and some other regions of a dedicated tax, uh, but it it's not really a gasoline tax that we need to be thinking of solely.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it's it's beyond that now.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I and I think a motor fuel tax uh is is still an important tool in the toolbox but for the long term.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: When you when you think about the next 20 years, right?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: It it's not the right way to fund transportation because it's a volumetric tax.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: It is invisible to the public because it the tax occurs at the refinery, so it's taxed at the at the at the rack at the wholesale level.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look at the receipt that you get out of the gas pump whenever you fill your car up, there's no line on there that says motor fuel tax.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's just an amount of money.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it's invisible to the public.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: And the the most challenging thing about a motorfuel tax is it's been around in some form for about a hundred years, and it's been an ideal way to invest in transportation because it was growing.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: More vehicles on the on the on the streets, more consumption happening, and it's been great right up until the time it's not.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a problem not only at the state level, it's a problem at the federal level.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Because our highway trust fund, the sole revenue source, the major revenue source that goes into the highway trust fund is our federal motor fuel tax on gas and diesel.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Nope, nobody likes taxes, but we all like safe infrastructure.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it it costs us all.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh uh, you know, a turnpike on every road isn't the answer necessarily, but but that's how you're getting roads built these days uh is is through the turnpike system.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: And and you know, major investments.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh ODOT cannot hope to get our arms around building some of these major linkages.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the up in the Tulsa region up here, you know, we've got the the most recent, the Gilcrease West link.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: The investment that that represents in in the Tulsa region's future is significant.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: Odot could have never have done that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: The city of Tulsa and Tulsa County, and no entity could have tackled that and finished it by themselves.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it it took a partnership to get that done.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: But turnpikes are they have been a tool in the toolbox, and that tool predates Dwight Eisenhower signing the Interstate Bill.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, turnpikes, we were doing this, we cut the ribbon on the Turner in 53.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: The Interstate Bill didn't get signed until 1956.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we've always been innovative.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's a user fee-based system.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: So if you use it, you've got to help pay for it.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: And they've expanded and enhanced that turnpike network, filled gaps that we never would have been able to fill otherwise.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, that's been an important, and that's one of the reasons that Oklahoma's got the 40, probably 47th lowest motor fuel tax in the United States.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because we've used a user fee to fill some of our transportation gaps.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: That model across this country is more prevalent today than it has ever been, because just about every state has recognized that they're going to have to start to think about a user fee-based system to fill some of that need because it's outpacing uh our other revenue sources.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I mean, uh, you know, the state highways back in the day were were built by state government, and that just doesn't happen anymore.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it's more difficult.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: And you go to North Northeast and other parts of the country.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's very prevalent, you know, in in those areas, but much more than it is here.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, but you know, it it's uh really enhanced, you know, like the Kickapoo that uh that I take as much as I can uh that isn't traveled as much as but it it will be.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: You see development starting to spur all along there, and it's gonna be a major, it is a major improvement for the region and moving traffic.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um and the one in Norman is uh uh ongoing discussion, and and I know that's also involving county government as well to come through.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely, and you know that connection on the on the south side of Oklahoma City is extremely important in in that metropolitan area.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um you think about I-44 uh as it runs through Oklahoma City, obviously the Turner on the on the east and the H.E.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Bailey on the west.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I-35 that is the fastest growing interstate megapolitan area, really from Kansas City all the way to Laredo, Texas, in the United States.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: That corridor represents the fastest growth anywhere in the U.S.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: That I-35 corridor in the Oklahoma City metropolitan area is not connected to I-44 until you get all the way into the city at I-240.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: That's a busy intersection.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's an incredibly busy intersection.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: So having that connectivity east-west is critical for Oklahoma City's future.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's critical for the region's future and and the investments at that level that the Turnpike Authority is making really have uh a local, a state, and a national impact because they're enhancing travel time reliability.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they're providing alternate routes.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of freight traffic comes in and out on 35.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of it comes to I-44 and hits I-44 and comes up northeast to Tulsa and points beyond, and vice versa.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: You don't want that freight traffic that's not destination for the metropolitan area of Oklahoma City mixed in with the 150,000 cars a day at the Oklahoma River on I-35 if you can avoid it.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: So uh we're, you know, those alternatives are becoming increasingly important.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: Same thing here in Tulsa.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: And that that gets back into that whole discussion around I-42.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, how do we finish the Gil Crease and the work that's being done there on the north side of Tulsa?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we've got it, we've got a lot of work ahead of us.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, fascinating.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I know some of the recent improvements here out on Highway 75, Glenn Pool area, uh, what a difference that uh project has been.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and you drive over it now, and it's it's like, you know, why wasn't this done years ago?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: This this flows so well, it's safe and and uh so well received.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the thing I'll do is apologize for uh a bridge project that we've got going on 75 here, just a little bit south of the big interchange.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh this down to one lane that's been real problematic.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I appreciate everybody's patience with us while we make that improvement.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're we're getting closer and closer to being finished with it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but that leads right into the the Tulsa Stone Hinge.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you know, yes, we are.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: And and I hope everybody can really see what our vision was when we when we put up those columns and pier caps and what that's turning into.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: And every time we open one of those flyover ramps, everything gets better.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh, you know, that that interchanges, it's it's that choke point.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: Choke points like that are hugely expensive.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: We've got to bite and and eat that elephant in a phase manner.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, but when they're done, uh I mean those are game changers for travel.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I I I think this Stonehenge uh concept has really brought awareness to what you do and and all the reasons why it developed like that and and uh the appreciation uh of it getting done because uh you know you do those projects now, but when you have the money to do all of it, it's been much more expensive.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: And and Rich, on council of government-wise, I mean what you know, you're as you're leaving that that sector, you're still going to be somewhat engaged in the region, but uh uh what do you see as some challenges for um you know funding throughout uh throughout a region for that you administer?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I in term in terms of transportation, I think Secretary Gats has really addressed that in terms of there needs to be stable funding that it it can't be fluctuating up and down with no certainty, because these projects take years and years to plan.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: Transportation, you you have to do your design and all of that, but then you have to buy right away.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Then you have to move utilities, then you may begin construction, and that may even be phase, bridges first, things like that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it takes time and stability in terms of funding is is critically important.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think from a local government perspective, so also the ability to have predictability on funding.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: There are challenges ahead in terms of tax revenues.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: So cities dependent upon sales tax, counties, schools primarily, property tax.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: But those issues are out there that will need to be addressed to have the resources to deliver the services that the public really expects government to provide.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: Transportation, we we hear from time to time about a rail system to Oklahoma City.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Is is that something that is still working?
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, toward the connecting the I I get this question a lot.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_03: I really do.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: And and the biggest challenge with connecting Oklahoma City to Tulson, and it shows up on Amtrak's regional map, so so we know it's a good idea.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: The ability to afford it is is always the challenge.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes building that's the easy part, it's the maintaining and the funding of the Sure, long term.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the and what we've seen is if you're gonna if if you're gonna make the investment, because the there is an existing rail line between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, but it is not conducive to passenger rail.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's a really good freight rail line, but the the speed limitations, the geometry of the rail system that's there doesn't support uh if it's a four hour trip from Tulsa to Oklahoma City, nobody's gonna ride it.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: So so we've got to to recognize that, and then if you if you want a rail connection between Oklahoma City and Tulsa, and maybe beyond Tulsa onto St.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: Louis or It it's it's possible, but it's expensive.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: And and if you're gonna build one today, it better be high speed.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: And high speed rail likes straight and flat.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: And there's nothing straight or flat between Oklahoma City and Tulsa.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of terrain that you've got to deal with and a lot of challenges, which drives the cost up.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And when you look at high-speed rail development across the United States, nobody has hit budgetary targets.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: There's been very little development so far because it's just so expensive.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: It it can approach 125 to 150 million dollars a mile to construct this high-speed rail.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, so it really prices us out of that alternative.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: That doesn't mean that we stop thinking about providing alternative transportation methods because at some point in the future, can you imagine when the turner turnpike is six lanes wide, far safer facility, all 90 miles between Oklahoma City and Tulsa?
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_03: Wouldn't a high-speed luxury bus service with rubber tire transfer address some of that need?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I think it's critical.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: We've got to provide transportation alternatives to our sit our to our citizens.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um does it have to be rail?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: And and might there rather be but be other alternatives that'll be much more cost effective?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, when that high-speed rail gets to the end point, you've got some last mile problems there that are gonna be challenging.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: And the other thing that we've really got to pay attention to right now is what does the future hold?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what when you have an autonomous uh vehicle system much like maybe what Austin's developing, much like what Phoenix has got with Waymo and some of the other communities around the country, when you have that where you can uh a ride is a subscription to a service.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_03: And how does that factor into some of the decision making we're we're trying to do right now?
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because we're trying to think long term, but there are gonna be some disruptive things happen in that space that are really gonna change the dynamics.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we've we've got to try to be attentive to that too.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, as we get to autonomous, just a last thought on that.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're it seems like it's intuitive that that's gonna reduce pressure on our system once these vehicles travel far more efficiently.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's not, it's gonna increase the pressure on our system because that vehicle that drip that picks you up and drops you off where you want to go is not gonna sit in a parking lot waiting on you to get done.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna go pick up another ride and another ride and another ride and another ride.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: So the pressure on our system will intensify.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, hopefully we can keep up with it and make make our system safer.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I know here in Tulsa the the transit system uh continues to improve and and but but ridership's always a struggle.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And Oklahomans love their vehicles, so they they like to drive and pull into the parking lot, and uh the traffic's not bad, but but uh educating and and they're doing all they can.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe, you know, I think ridership has increased somewhat, Rich, and you you know some some of that as well as this in this region, but um it's just a hard sell for for a lot of people to uh give up their vehicles and and ride a bus.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but longer trips to Oklahoma City or uh, you know, whether it's train or like like you were mentioning, the high-speed bus, um, that might be more palatable, you know.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: But uh the the the Turner itself, it just continues to grow, even though now we're three lanes in in most of the areas.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a busy road.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you pay attention to detail.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I tell this story a lot that um uh was listening to you speak on on the Turner when the expansion was beginning.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh what excited uh you the most obviously expanding the road miles, but the light pollution on the lights, you know, you don't think of everything, but uh at night, you know, those highways need to be lit up, and they are lit up, but it goes very little beyond the road.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean it it was that detail that uh I keep telling people, no, it's it's all about the lights, you know, and the safety at night.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the the the Turner in particular, because of the vertical alignment, it it it's too expensive to try to flatten that highway out all the way between Oklahoma City and Tulsa.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: So what what do you do to overcome some of the sight distance challenges, especially at night?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: We light it.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: It makes it a much, much safer travel uh highway.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, then well if you're gonna light it, are you a good neighbor to the people that live on the other side of the right-of-way fence?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so we've we've done everything we can to minimize the the uh light pattern that is generated by those LEDs.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the the lighting that we have available to us today is so much more sophisticated than what we had even a decade ago.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: So we've got a a better opportunity to to control that.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if you look at the Turner as an example, uh, you know, it it works really good.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: I was on it last night, and uh it makes me smile.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: Every time I travel that section where it's all well lit, you see everything really well, and you're not shining light in somebody's backyard.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's just right there off the shore.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's it's just so safe, and and uh as a driver, I mean uh uh you you just see everything so well in the middle of the night, and and you can't say that about most roads.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Rich, uh I I know we're probably getting ready to close out this thing.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're probably gone overboard uh on our time, but um uh I can't thank you enough for your years of service uh in in our region and representing our state.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, every time I've been with you to DC and we're talking to the federal delegation that involves transportation, but NCOG's initiatives uh uh boy, if there's one thing I go away uh uh is noticing more than anything, is to be prepared when when you're visiting with your legislature and and your uh delegation, that uh that's something you've always have been prepared and they understand exactly precisely.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and you've been very effective in in selling this region and getting it done.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I know you and Senator Anhoff worked a tremendous amount on many projects uh in this area, and and uh uh anything you'd like to uh visit about in closing, some of your well I I just say relationships are incredibly important.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: You've gotta have that.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've gotta, you know, you you've gotta express what's important to people that can help address those issues.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: And partnerships, nobody does these things by themselves.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's working together and trying to find a way to get to the get to the win-win.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're all after.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we want to provide the best information for the policy officials to make informed decisions and respecting their role as decision makers.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of what we've done kind of is behind the scenes, but it's it's working with the officials to try to address issues to help move this region forward.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what it's been all about.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've always said NCOG's been that glue for for counties and and municipalities and for all of us to work together to to to better our our region.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's it's not necessarily for today.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you said, Tim, it's it's it's for the future and those that go before us.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I can't thank you all enough.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Tim, what what's your plans moving forward?
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: To be determined.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know that uh little vacation time, maybe.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, first and foremost, uh I'm gonna spend a little family time.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: My uh my youngest son's got twins due in December.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: So uh we're gonna enjoy some family time and uh but I'm uh I'm not built to to retire.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: I sure will I won't be able to sit still, so uh you know I I will have another career ahead of me and uh looking forward to that.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Commissioner I'd like to offer my perspective on Rich and just a little bit and you know he's been a a great partner, great friend to to me for my entire career.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_03: In a world that is increasingly filled with problem identifiers, occasionally God sends us a problem solver.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that's what this man is.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_03: So and and it's been a great honor and a great privilege to be able to work with you, Rich, for the last almost four decades.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, it's uh a great partnership and a great friendship.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: You've been the best.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well and Stan, the the leadership of Tulsa County and NCOG has been so critically important.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: So not your chair of the board today, we've had John Self, chair of the board, chair of the National Association, John Smoligo when he was county commissioner, Karen Keith.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: So appreciate all of the leadership that Tulsa County has provided to INCOD.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's made a huge difference.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Tulsa County was one of the Robert Newhouse, former county commissioner, along with Robert J.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: LaFortune, who were founding fathers in INCOD.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the history there and the leadership, and and and the county has been instrumental, and and it it it it's important that they are, that they're a part of this, and uh as well of all of our regional partners.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh again, uh ending on a good note, I I just can't thank both of you.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's been a tremendous honor for me, uh, whether it be uh at the mayoral level many years ago to be in county commissioner and now uh to have such uh uh a legacy of of knowledge and and uh uh respect really through throughout the state uh to have you both uh working with our region is is tremendous.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, but you've done a tremendous job in having people behind you ready to move in and uh take this to another level.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I hope you're there to uh lend your two cents when need be.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we we we always need your uh expertise and advice.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: So uh but it's been my honor and uh to be able to work with y'all both.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so we'll uh we'll end today's podcast.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's been a great discussion on transportation in the state of Oklahoma and um look forward to seeing you next time and watch our social media.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh thank you very much for tuning in.