Latest / Financial Survival Network / Fed Hikes & The AI Bubble - Jim Welsh #6424

Transcript

Fed Hikes & The AI Bubble - Jim Welsh #6424 · Financial Survival Network

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You're listening to Cary Lutz's Financial Survival Network, where you
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else. To
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: thrive in today's trying times, you need the Financial Survival Network,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: now more than ever. Go to financialsurvivalnetwork.com and get your
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: free newsletter and gift. Financial Survival Network, now more than ever.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Welcome. This is Financial Survival Network. I'm your host, Kerry Lutz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Jim Welsh, MacroTides.com is with us today. Jim, when is
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the market crashing?
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to be crashing anytime soon, Kerry,
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: but my cake has been that we're seeing the underlying
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: parts of the market. In other words, you can look
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: at the S & P 500, which is dominated by
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: semiconductor stocks, Mag7 stocks. I think those, like 10 stocks,
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: represent 35% to 38% of the S & P. Or
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: look at the equal weight S & P 500, where
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: every single stock only has a 0.2% weighting. So instead
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: of NVIDIA being 8% of the S & P, the
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: equal weight NVIDIA has 0.2%. And that has begun to
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: roll over, which I've written about the last two, three weeks.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: a week or so ago, broke a trend line going
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: back to last April. And so to me, that was
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: one of the tells, Kerry, that under the surface, the
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: market is weakening. The number of stocks making new lows
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: has dwarfed in the last two weeks or so, the
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: number of stocks making new highs. And all that's needed
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: is a reason to sell. And we're obviously being given
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: more than one reason, A, with what's going on with
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: oil prices, treasury yields, and I believe and have believed
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: for weeks, I think the last time we talked, my
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: take was the Fed's going to hike for a lot
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: of different reasons. So for the first time in some time,
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: investors are facing more reasons to sell than buy. And
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: that's typically what gets you going in terms of a correction.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: So I've been looking for a 5% to 10% pullback,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: and I still think that's what's going to unfold in
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: the coming weeks.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I think so. Well, you know, I was going to say,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I don't remember now, but age is setting in. You know,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: like back when they were talking rate cuts and everything
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: else like a year ago, I ran this whole scenario
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: through the AI and said, what's going to be the
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: biggest surprise the coming year? And it said interest rates
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: are going higher.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: And you know what? It nailed it because viewers are inflationary,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: and this is what we get, right? Yep, yep.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I've been in the camp that the Treasury bond
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: market has begun a new secular bear market. In other words,
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: from 1945 to 1981 was a secular bear market. The
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: 10-year yield went from under 2% to 15.5%. And then
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: from 81 to 2020, it went from 15.5% to 55
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: basis points in March of 2020, and then broke out
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: as we got into 21 and 22. And so my
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: take has been the main primary trend in treasury yields
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: is higher. And I've been looking for the 10-year to
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: get up to 5%, primarily because that was the high
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: in October of 2023. And then once it broke above 475,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: I think about two weeks or so ago, You know,
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: that was my tape. We're going to get above 475,
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: and then we're going to stir stuff our way up
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: to 5%. And as you know, the 10-year got to
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: 501 yesterday. And, you know, in terms of the Fed,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: one of the things I've written a lot about is
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: if you look at the two-year Treasury yield, going back decades, Kerry,
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: and chart it with the Fed funds rate, and what
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: you'll see is the two-year leads the Fed funds rate.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: And two-year yield in mid-July was 416. Pardon me, maybe
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: it was mid-August, 416. Well, the Fed funds rates at 363.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: So that meant the funds rate was, what, almost 70
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: basis points or no, 50 basis points below the two-year. Well,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: that's pricing in two hikes. In the last couple of days,
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: the two-year is up around 463, 100 basis points. So
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: to me, Warsh has said, I don't want forward guidance.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: I don't want the markets to keying off what we're
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: saying and what they think we will do. I want
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: them to, you know, consume economic data and then make
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: their own best judgment in terms of what should be
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: happening with markets. We get to observe that. Well, if
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: they're observing the two-year, hello, you know. So I've been
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: in the camp, Woodhike, California. you know, tomorrow for weeks
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: and weeks because of just that information. Plus the economy
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: is okay. We're running a 6% deficit. AI is adding
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: about 1.7% to GDP, the spending involved. So, you know,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: add it all up. The economy is okay. The labor
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: market's stable. And inflation has been above the Fed's target
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: for 65 weeks.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: All right. So we have... Once they start hiking, they
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: generally don't do just one. You could expect two or
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: three of them, right?
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm not in that camp. I mean, what you
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: just said is true. Historically, when they begin to hike,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: it's a sequence and series of right hikes. In 1997,
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: there was a sole hike. They lifted the funds rate,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I think, from five and a quarter to five and
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: a half. It stayed at five and a half until
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: September of 98 when they actually cut. And, you know,
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: my criticism, I wrote about this in my letter yesterday, Kerry,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: and anybody who would like to receive it, send me
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: an email, jimwelschmacro at gmail. I'll send you this week's
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Weekly Technical Review. I think those who are on that train, well,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I've always done two or three or more, and so
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: they're going to do that. Well, let's look at the reality.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: And where we are right now is kind of unique
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: in that most of the inflation is coming from energy. Well,
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: we'll hire... Funds rate, will that bring more oil to
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: the market? No. The other thing, Warsh in his Jackson
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Hole speech, Terry said, the good news is that inflation
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: expectations remain anchored. And so from my perspective, what that
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: means is as long as they remain anchored, you don't
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: necessarily get a sequence and series of rate hikes. You
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: get one and done. And then they're going to sit
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: back and wait. What I find ironic is three weeks ago,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: most people didn't think they would hike tomorrow. Now they're
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: looking for three hikes. In fact, I think the odds
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: of a December hike is like at 80%. So, you know,
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: that's just classic whiplash in terms of Wall Street mindset
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: and her thinking. So I'm in the camp that they're
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: going to be one and done for a while as
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: they wait more data.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Really? Yeah.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: Well, the other thing, too, is remember in June, the
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: summary of economic projections had nine people who wanted to
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: keep the funds rate unchanged, eight people unchanged in one
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: set of cut. So I think we're getting a hike tomorrow, Kerry.
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Some of those people who are going to agree to
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: a hike like Waller, it's going to be reluctant. You know,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: so I think that those people will say, OK, we're
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: at a place in time. We're hiking tomorrow. But that,
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: I don't think, means that they're automatically signed on to, okay,
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: once we do this one hike, we're going to have
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: to automatically increase funds rate at least two or three times.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: That just doesn't add up. Okay.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Well, from your mouth to Warsh's ears, maybe they'll listen
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: to you this time.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I've been more right about the Fed than just
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: about anybody I know, honestly. I mean, I've been studying
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: this stuff for like over 40 years. I used to
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: read Greenfield.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I know, pattern recognition.
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: Well, I understand what's going on. You know, I mean, inside,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: you know, the other thing that Wurst said, which I
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: thought was very revealing at Jackson Hole, the nine people
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: who said no cut, maybe one cut, one of the
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: things that they were saying is, well, I think policy
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: at current level is already restrictive, you know, modestly restrictive.
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: All right, fine.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: What Wurst said was, I'd be hard-pressed to say that
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: policy at current level is restrictive. So when I read that,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: because I read the transcript of his speech, I'm like, whoa,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: he just sided with the nine who wanted to hike.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: He's saying, well, the reason for not hiking is we're
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: already restrictive. I don't believe it. I didn't hear anybody
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: else talk about that, Kerry. that he made that statement.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: And so here's a guy who's not giving any forward guidance. Well,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: to me, that was, you know, like incredible forward guidance,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: that he doesn't think policy is restrictive. Well, what's the
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: implication of that? Well, he supports a rate hike. And,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: you know, the other thing is that people are like, well,
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: he won't hike because he's in trouble.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Pocket.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: And Trump has told him he cut rates. And geez,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: if he doesn't cut, he's going to unleash more tariffs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, you know what? Every Fed chair, new
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: Fed chair has gotten tested going back to the 1930s. Yeah,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: that's true. And so I look at it and say,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: you know what? Everything is aligned for a genuine reason
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: to hike. And that immediately gets the Trump monkey off
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: his back and immediately increases his credibility and the Fed's credibility,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: which has taken it on the chin over the last
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: five years, given that inflation is off its target for
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: 65 months. So, you know, to me, it's just like
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: a layoff. and has been that way, that they get
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: so much mileage out of one quarter point increase. And
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: is it going to really harm the economy?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Not really.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: The other reason why one and done makes sense, Kerry,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: is treasury yields have gone up a lot. Mortgage rates
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: are above 7%. So we're seeing tightening happening outside of
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: the Fed raising 25 basis points. So some of the
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: lifting is being done by market generated rates. And that's
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: another reason why I think one and done until proven
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: otherwise makes more sense.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Okay. Maybe two. I'm thinking more three. But then on
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: the other hand, every hike increases the deficit. And then
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: it piles on. So I can see your point. But
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: why bother with one other than optics? basically what you're saying.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: So what about the AI boom? Is that going to
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: turn into the AI bust before our very eyes? Obviously,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: at some point it will. But when?
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think for a while, because they're going
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: to keep spending. I mean, you know, a quarter point
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: increase by the Fed isn't going to dissuade any of
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: the hyperscalers from spending more money next year than they
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: spent this year. But to your point, you know, the
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: rate of change of their spending is going to at
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: some point in time peak and then begin to slow down.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the signals that we
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: have to pay attention to, Kerry, is that once it
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: peaks and starts to slow down, that trajectory will continue
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: to slow and the economy will be negatively impacted because
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: it's providing a lot of juice. AI stocks and semiconductor
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: stocks are going to be really pretty vulnerable. I mean,
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: people forget how cyclical semiconductor stocks are. In the 2001-02
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: bear market and the financial crisis, the semiconductor index dropped
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: by 65%. So it just went through a 29% decline
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: between June and late July, which I nailed, by the way.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: On June 22nd, when it peaked, it happened to coincidentally
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: have a weekly technical review. And I said, they're They're topping,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: and we're going to have a significant decline. I think
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: there's more to go. In the next few weeks, Kerry,
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: for the semiconductor index, the SMH is the one I
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: follow more closely. It peaked at 671, dropped to 503,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: rallied to 607. I feel strongly that it's going to
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: drop below 503 and could make a run at like 460.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: If that does happen, that will be, I think, a
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: very good buying opportunity for because I don't think the
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: cycle's done yet and that there will be another pretty
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: good rally. So I think the spending continues well into
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: next year. As we get maybe towards mid-next year, carrying people,
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: start looking out for 2028, that's when I think the
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: rate of change visibility will become more enhanced and people
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: will start talking about that.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: So effectively what you're saying is AI– is no different
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: in terms of market cycles than the dot-com era and
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Ray Rooney's thing.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: Fiber optics, you know, all the above. You know what
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: happens always is there's like RCA, okay? RCA in the
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: 20s went from like under $ 10 to $ 5. 70 the stock.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Well, because people are saying, you know, they got all
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: these radio stations. You know what they're going to do?
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: They're going to start sending pictures. You'll be actually... able
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: to see the people when they're talking. Mads and Mads.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Who would ever think? Unbelievable.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: Okay. Well, what exactly happened was they did have TV stations.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: They did have everything that people were building the price
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: out in the 28 and 29 came to pass. The
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: stock went from 570 to 15. So we get this
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: disconnect always, Kerry, where prices of the securities run anticipating
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: this great outcome. And even if you get the great outcome,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: that disconnect gets corrected. And, you know, to me, it's
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: not if it's going to happen with AI, it's just when,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: to your question. And I just don't think we're there yet.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: I think near term, we have more weakness. Then I
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: think my take is there's another big rally coming at
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: the end of that rally. I think that will be
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: the threshold of a much larger unwind.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: So, in other words, the more things change, the more
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: they stay the same. Yeah.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: You know, the old, hey, history repeats itself, and those
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: who don't pay attention are doomed to repeat it. I mean,
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: think about what's happening in the socialist movement in this country.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: It's the most stupid thing going. I mean, because there's
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: a lot of history. There's a lot of proof that
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: it doesn't work. Now, that doesn't mean capitalism is perfect.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: It's got flaws, no question about it. But on a
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: relative scale, capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: and lifted standard of livings for everyone in a capitalist
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: system far better than any socialist system. And yet, kids
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: are coming out of college because their teachers told them, well,
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: socialism isn't all that bad, and look at how bad
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: capitalism is, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: And, you know.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: So we got a bunch of people who are going
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: to be voting more and more who actually believe socialism
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: isn't such a bad thing. So stupid is.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Well, what are the Forrest Gump's mother used to say?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Stupid is as stupid does.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, that is it for today. Anyways, MacroTides.com.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Go check it out. Get a free. copy how do
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: they do that uh.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Jim jim welsh macro gmail you can also go to macrotize.com
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: and what you also see kerry besides me talking about
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: fundamental stuff focusing recently about monetary policy but also incorporating
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: technical analysis in covering gold uh the dollar treasury yields
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: stocks um and so it's a real combination of technical
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: analysis and so forth um you know, in late June
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: and early July, the charts suggested gold was on the
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: threshold of a very significant rally. So that combination has
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: been very helpful. So yeah, Jim Welsh, Macro Gmail, happy
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: to send you a recent Macro Tithes or Weekly Technical Review.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: I think you'll find it informative.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Excellent. Hey, appreciate you coming on. Any questions, comments for
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Jim or myself, shoot me an email, kl at kerrylutz.com.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: make sure you, uh, check out the, uh, dollar time machine.com. Actually,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: let me just show it to you real quick here.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: I think you will, uh, you will appreciate it. Uh,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: cause this is partly why we're looking at, uh, socialism in,
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: in the country, why the resurgence of it. And, uh,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Because you remember when somebody with a basic middle-class job
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: could support a family. The wife didn't have to work.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: She could stay home with the kids. And here. I'm
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: not going to ask you what year you were born.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: I was born in 57. Everyday prices, 11.79 tons.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Housing....
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: A dollar of housing in 57 buys $ 40. 66 worth. Now, gold,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: it's $ 130. 38. Understanding that gold's price was fixed for decades.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Silver wasn't fixed. It was $ 57. 24. But if this was
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, it would have been upwards near gold.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: Here's what's interesting. The Dow Jones, a dollar in the Dow. $ 122. However,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: if you reinvested dividends, $ 862. S & P, $ 190 with
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: dividends reinvested, $ 1, 344. And then we have our debt 190
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: with dividends reinvested 1344 so and then we have our
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: debt clock running here what's 40 trillion among friends right and.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: And growing.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah the debt to GDP ratio when I was born
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: was 57.4 now 122 But what's interesting about that is
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: it actually went down.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, 1981, 82, I think it was in the low
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: 30% range. And the crazy part, remember, 1981, the 10-year
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: was at 15.5. The funds rate was pushing 20%. So
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: you would think, wait, that doesn't mean 4N. 74 was
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: the bottom, 31%.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: And somehow the country functioned without all that debt, right?
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I know. And that was after Vietnam. So go figure. Anyways,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: take a look at dollartimemachine.com. The link is in the
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: show notes. Jim, always a pleasure. We'll talk to you
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: again real soon.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: You got it.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Thanks, Kerry.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: Stay well.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Kerry Lutz's Financial Survival Network, your
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go to FinancialSurvivalNetwork.com.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Financial Survival Network, now more than ever.