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Dirty Rush: Rush in the 90’s Pledge Sneaks, Puffy Paint, and Party Fouls · The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Dirty Rush, The Truth about Sorority Life with
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: your hosts me Gia Judice.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Davey Kent, and Jennifer Fessler.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Hi you guys, welcome back to another week of Dirty Rush.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I am Jenfessler, and today we want to get into
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the minds of what Rush sorority was really like back
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: in the day and how it has changed. So I
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: am the ripe old age of fifty seven years old.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: I graduated from the University of Texas in nineteen ninety
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: so picture Rush. Although I actually rushed as a junior
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight, and I can tell you right
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: here right now, just to spoil the ending, it was
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: a lot different. And I'm also going to bring in
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: our guest today. Her name is Katie, and she is
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: here because she is from sort of my generation. Hi Katie,
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Hi wait, I'm sorry, I don't even know how Wait
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: where are you from?
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Fifty seven?
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm fifty. I rushed in the nineties. I
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: was in a house in the nineties and yeah, I mean,
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: so much has changed, I think.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Right, so it really has. Thank you so much for
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: joining me, because we really do want to talk about this.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's interesting our perspective, not only of
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the way that we you know, we rushed and we pledged,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: but also how different it is from what our daughters
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: are doing. Now. Do you have kids going through it,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: because my daughter went through it at in Delaware.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have kids, but I have a lot
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: that are going through it. But I have a number
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: of friends whose kids are or have gone through it,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: And so I've been asked to write recommendations and wow, Okay,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: that was like the first signal. This is really different
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: because back in the day, like we really thought through
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: who's going to write our recommendation? And you know, because
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: it mattered more than that, like if your mom or
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: grandma or aunt or somebody, if you were a legacy,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: if they were like in your house else, that also
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: really mattered. And it's super interesting because when I went
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: to the website a couple of years ago, I wrote
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: the first recommendation for a friend's daughter, and I went
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: to the website and it actually explicitly said that they've
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: changed the whole process. They have clearly stated there is
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: no preference given to legacy, to any of that, and
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: that they really want to be more inclusive and so
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: it also told us we can write a recommendation if
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: we want, but they don't even really allow you to
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: write a recommendation. All you do is fill out standard
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: information about Yeah.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: No, my daughter I wanted her to I was a
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Phi at ut I was an a FI, and I
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: wanted her to go FI at Delaware.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Turns out she wanted Alpha Fi.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: But I remember thinking like, oh, great, she's gonna have,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: you know, such a great shop just because her mom
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: was a Phi, her aunt was a Phi. And yeah,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: definitely was like that for us. So I did not
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: have anybody who had I didn't have any legacy when
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I was going through it. So yeah, yeah, things have changed.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's just right, that's just like the tip
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: of the iceberg.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's an interesting thing.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Like I mean, I get the idea that you want
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: to be more inclusive, but there's also something about the
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: tradition of the whole thing and it's really special to
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: a lot of people. So yeah, yeah, but yeah, and
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: then like you know, being a rushie is also so
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: different from being in the house. It's like such a
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: different experience.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: I think that's probably that's probably still true. Well, first,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: let's how about you. Tell me a little bit about
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: your experience, Like did you go in where did you
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: go to school?
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: What was your house?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: What was it like going through Did you know you
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: wanted to be in a particular sorority?
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So, I it's interesting. So like the experience was
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: so different. I mean I have stories from being a
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: rashie and I have some funny stories about being a
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: member on the other side. So I went to so
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, as a rashie, you're nervous. You hope they
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: like you, and not all goes according to plan. I mean, like,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: I remember there was a girl when I went through
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: RUSH who didn't realize that the back of her skirt
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: was all bunched up in her pantyhouse elastic, her underwear
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: was showing. She'd been walking around to parties at different
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: houses and nobody told her, Like so embarrassing. I mean,
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: had I didn't see it, had I seen it, I
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: would have told her. But like, were people not noticing?
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: Were people nervous? Like why does that happen? But you're
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: so nervous? You know. Another thing I remember going through
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: RUSH is I went to UC Berkeley. There was a
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: famous guy at the time who'd walk around naked. He
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: was called the naked guy and like you'd hear about
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: this guy. Well, on the first day of Rush, which
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: was before school even started, we were brand new freshmen.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: This guy was deliberately circulating the sorority areas. We were
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: running between houses, and it was like, again, like do
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: you acknowledge it? Do you tend you don't see it
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: because you're so nervous and you're so focused and you're
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: running around. Anyway, it was a perfect welcome to Berkeley.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: I'll bet, I'll bet.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Well, let me let me just ask you, because I
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: can't emphasize enough that that not having social media, not
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: owning a cell phone like there was, it was a
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: whole different thing. Like you were lined up and maybe
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: that is sort of similar. Went from house to house.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I can't even remember, like I guess how I got
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the instructions in terms of you know, what to do,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: where to go, where to show up, when I just
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: remember standing with groups of strange girls and in being
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: shuffled from house to house, and that is that how
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: you did it?
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: I mean totally. I mean it's like the whole thing
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: was really confusing, right right, but it actually was more organized,
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: like at first, I was like, like, are we just
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: are they just going to leave you? Like is it
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: just randomly a party? Now I'm an outgoing person, like
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: I'll go up to anybody and like, you know, introduce
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: myself and say hi, but not everyone does. But you
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: kind of worry, like are you going to these parties
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: and are you going to sit there awkwardly it is
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: no one going to talk to you. But actually it
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: was really organized. From what I remember, you got a schedule,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: told you what time you're going to what house? Right?
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Right, now, yeah, you're right, I do, yeah, I do
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: remember that.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: And then you went as a group and then like
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: you'd go to the house and they'd open the door
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: and usually they'd like I don't know, there was like
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: a performance and maybe the girls would sing a song
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: and like welcome you into their house. And then it's
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: interesting because from the rushi's perspective, it just seems like
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: you go in the house and a bunch of people
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: come and talk to you. There was never a moment
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: that you're without somebody, right, Like they made sure that
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: there were always like probably a few people talking to you.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: And it's so interesting because on the other side, from
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: the member of perspective. It was incredibly well organized and orchestrated.
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: Like we had teams, and the teams rotated to like
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: a rushi would be invited to sit at a certain
• 6:58
  Speaker 3: seat in the living room or wherever, and then the
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: members had teams and the teams would rotate to specific
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: seats so that we would all each team would meet
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: the same girl, and we'd all like have something to
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: say about the girl.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I remember when I was like, I remember that my sorority,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: we would put the girls that we really wanted because
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: we would do skits as well or songs, so we'd
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: put the girls that we really wanted in like the
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: front two rows, let's say, before the skits, so that
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: we could I mean, I.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: Know, like, oh, that's so funny. We didn't be able
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: to like.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: Make eye contact with them.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: And I remember, actually because I already had had friends
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: in five so I remember being in one of those
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: front two rows not even realizing that, you know, whatever,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: that meant something. But there were all those kind of
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: little like behind the scene tricks that everybody got to
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: kind of look at, you know. And also I don't
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: know if you felt this way, but I went to
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: so many houses that I knew not only did I
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: not want to be in those sororities, I knew that
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I had not chance of being in them. And part
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: of that for me was that in nineteen eighty eight
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: at University of Texas, Jewish girls weren't really getting in
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: to the other sororities. So and I knew that for me,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: it was going to come down to these three Jewish sororities.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: And that is actually it's it's really how it was.
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I have friends who went to school in Dallas and
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: then went to ut and watched their very dear friends
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: go into sororities that they knew they couldn't get into.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: And this is now, really we're going back in time,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: but still that actually existed.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: And you know it was so I was.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I just knew automatically there were three, but I remember
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: going into all of the other houses and also just
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: feeling I was insecure when I was that age anyway,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: what was what was I twenty one and just watching
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: all these beautiful girls and just feeling less than and insecure.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, did you have any of that?
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Was it like that at Berkeley?
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: Oh? Wow, that's so interesting to hear, because like I
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: heard about that more from my mom's generation. I mean Berkeley, right,
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: because it's California. It's not Berkeley, you know, California and
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Texas are so different in the eighties and nineties, right, yes,
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: because I mean I don't remember there being a Jewish sorority,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: but there definitely were Jewish fraternities, not because Jewish guys
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: couldn't join the others, but more because there were groups
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: that just liked how and I think there were non
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Jewish members of those Jewish fraternities. So like, so Berkeley
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: it sounds like was quite different. But oh my gosh,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: it's kind of heartbreaking also hearing your story of like
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: going to these houses and seeing these beautiful girls and
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: feeling less than.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I had the information ahead of time.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I knew that there were going to be three houses
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: that were probably going to be interested in me, right,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: and so it wasn't it wasn't a big surprise, but
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: it was just like, yeah, just rushing the other ones.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: It was just wrote It was like, oh my god.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: But I still remember being walking in and just feeling
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: so intimidated. And houses, you know, yeah, the physical houses
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: at Texas are overwhelmingly huge and beautiful, like you know,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: it's exactly what you would picture in terms of Greek
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: life in the South, and it was I just I
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: just remember, you know, seeing everybody seemed all of the
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: girls seemed so perfect and they just looked yeah.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: And they had it down and I did.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Not well, and that was that was created to be
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: that way, right because every house, like you know, everyone
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: was smiling, everyone was like they were trying to put
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: their best selves forward because they wanted to be the
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: house everybody wanted, right like, and so some of that
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: was like contrived. It really was contrived, and some houses
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: maybe did it better, like I do remember, like some
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: houses just seem more joyful and beautiful and perfect and
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: all of that. It's interesting though, because what I do
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: remember is the the members could not speak to rushi
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: even if you knew them, and so there was like
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: that whole rule but secret like to your point, which
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: house might you end up in and if you knew
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: each other secret messages. I remember these secret messages being
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: sent between members and Rashi's by parents actually, because because
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: it's interesting. I mean, you talk about being a Rashie
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: and being nervous and the house is looking perfect, but
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: on the other side of it, the houses didn't want
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: to waste invitations on people that didn't want their house.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it right, Like as much as they
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: appeared like, oh, you want us more than we want you,
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: it was really interesting. And the reason these secret messages
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: were passed is because the houses wanted to know what
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: all the reshis that they liked were thinking.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Now went through the parents. I mean, my mother had
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: zero I don't even know if she knows that.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I was in a sorority to these days, so I
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: can't imagine she was definitely not passing notes with other moms.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I can't I have not heard that.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and I remember like among our group of
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: friends because like we knew a lot of that people
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: in the houses that we wanted to join, and our
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: parents knew each other. And so yeah, these secret messages
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: would come and and you know, someone would take a survey, okay,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: rank your preferences, which house do you want? And then
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: they'd send it back. But there were also.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, did you go in like with the dream house,
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: like were you did you know before the process started
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: that you.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Wanted to be I had a sense of which houses
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: I might want to join, and I will say the
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: house I ended up joining from the first day was like,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I was like, that is the house I want to join.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Like it just was so clear to me from day one,
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: and it stood out to me so much from the
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: others right way. I got lucky, you know, I just
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: I found I mean, first of all, it was like,
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: I'll use the word it was so like you walked in,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: it was joyful. I mean the physical house itself, in
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: my opinion, was also the most beautiful of all the houses.
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: And many of these houses were really beautiful, Like there's
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: a there's a famous architect, nam Jillian Morgan, she had
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: designed a lot of these houses. These are like former mansions,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: you know that are converted and so a lot of
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: them are really beautiful. But physically this house was beautiful.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: It was so joyful. The girls in the house, I
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: just really connected with them. I just felt like they
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: were my people, you know. They were fun, smart, interesting,
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: you know, and it just seemed like there was such
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: a special camaraderie among the members and that just really
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: spoke to me. Right. It felt comfortable for me. It
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: felt unhappy, you know. Every time I was there, I
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: was like, I don't know, it's just your guts. Sometimes
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: it's a gut check.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I knew that I wanted to be a fie
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: because I was rooming with three fives, So I knew
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that that was the way it was going to go.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: But it was interesting becuse when I walked into SDT,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I felt really comfortable there in a different way. And
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the reputation at the time was so ridiculous, but there
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: was you know, the fives were pretty girls and SDT
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: that was the night. Those were the nice girls, and
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I felt so comfortable there. But there was almost this
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: feeling of I'm going to be a fie and so
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I wonder how many how many girls go through it
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and they, you know, they had this idea of where
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: they're supposed to be, right, so this is my what
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: do they call it now, the top tier sorority, and
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: this is where and I hope that they allow themselves
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: to go into these other ones and and connect and
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: feel like potentially it's a fit. I mean, I I
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: think I felt like maybe even it was more of
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: a fit at SDT, but I was already sort of
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: like destined to be in a fight, And I'm glad
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: that I was, I made fabulous friends. I had a ball,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: But you know, I can't say that I had such
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: an open mind, did you.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's a really good point. I just wrote
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: a recommendation for a friend's daughter for she's going to Wisconsin.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: And what I said to her what and apparently what
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: her mother told me was that that's the house she wants,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: that's her top choice, right, And what I told her
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: what the daughter was keep an open mind, I said,
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: first of all, and she's also really nervous. She told me,
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: I'm like super nervous, and I like kind of explained
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: the process. I was like, don't be nervous. But what
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: I told her too, is you're interviewing them as much
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: I mean interviewing, I'll use that word, but like, you know,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: don't forget that you're interviewing them as much as they're
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: interviewing you. And don't forget, you know, to keep an
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: open mind. You might I said, I've had friends whose
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: daughters thought they wanted a certain house and they ended
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: up joining a different one, right because that was the
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: house they loved. So I think you're exactly right. I mean,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: I told her, I don't forget you might change your mind.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Keep an open mind, and it'll make you less nervous too,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: to think. It's not like you're right being You're the
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: only one being evaluated here because you're you know, ask
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: them a lot of questions, try and get a sense
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: of the houses.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: It's so funny because my daughter would use the phrase
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: top tier. I just wanted to puke. I was like, Rachel,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I don't even know, but guess what I mean?
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: That was.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: We had that back then too, we just didn't have,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: you know, the words to attach to it.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: And so it's.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: It's you know, because everybody knew, you know what where
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: which sorties were the top and right that were known
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: for one thing and some that were known for another.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: And I also look now at on TikTok specifically. But
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: these skits, they're not even skits like back in the
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: day because I was skits chair or whatever it was
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: after I pledged, and it was like it was songs
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that we would write on loosely paper to musicals or
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: to like Broadway. Now it's like it is no joke.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: These are full fledged performances. These girls are dancers and
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: they are gymnasts. I don't know what's happening. I mean,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: don't you see that on TikTok now, Like wow, I
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: just they're all right, I mean yeah, ours were Ours
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: were like not like that. Ours were way simpler, maybe
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: a little sweeter, more clothes for sure.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Work, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean we did have
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: like a theme day where we do like I think
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: we did a Barry Manila song, you know, copa Cabana,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: and we like decorated the whole house and we like
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: did a whole performance. But yeah, it was not like
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: the TikTok level performances you see now. It was like
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: us like you know whatever. But it was fun, you know,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: and that was the fun of it. But it certainly
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: wasn't as polished as they might do now. But but yeah,
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: but actually like interesting, I mean, just one second, going
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: back to what you were saying about like the expectations
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: being open. I do remember girls getting not getting the
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: house they wanted and getting a different house and yet
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: being happy with that house. Like sometimes you know what
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: you don't get, like you get the right thing in
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: the end.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like you really like you knew and
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: you went in there and you felt it, And I'm
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: guessing that you felt that way throughout the four years
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: that you felt because I didn't.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: I don't think I felt always like I fit in.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if I would have fit
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: in better to a different sorority, but I definitely didn't
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: feel like the same as And that could have to
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: do with the fact that I was such an insecure,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: you know, young person, and I don't think I was
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: really comfortable even you know, being me at that point.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: But I definitely had you know, the girls were they
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: just all felt like they had their shit together, and
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: they all had either boyfriends or they were eating all
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: the time. And I mean, this is just I didn't.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: I would walk in there and feel a little bit
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: like a fraud. You Oh gosh, I did not have
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: any of that.
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: That's so hard because it's not like, you know, you
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: choose a college and you may not like it. You
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: can transfer, like you can't transfer sororities. You join once
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: kind of it doesn't work, you deactivate.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So that is well, So it wasn't.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't ha me to imply that it was
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: not like I had friends and we had fun. It
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: just I didn't really, I didn't. I don't think it
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: was a great fit. Maybe Sworary life wasn't a great
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: fit for me, I don't know. But I also, you know,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I had transferred from Boston University because I was homesick,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: and I had all of these friends from sleep away
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: camp in Texas and they were doing mixers and matches
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: and they were living the Sororied life, and I would
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: you know, with all of the fun that came along
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: with that and the football games, and I feel like
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I was in the middle of the city school and
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I really felt like I was missing out and I
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: really wanted that Greek life and back you know, in
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty at Boston University, there was not much of
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: a Greek life, so I felt like I was missing
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: out on this whole entire college experience. And you know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: UT was a great place if for that, and still
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: is if you want that sort of classic Greek life experience.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: But I think I didn't know, really, like at that point,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out who I wanted to be,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and so I didn't It wasn't seamless for me, right,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Like the transition to Greek life was it for you?
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: But I guess, I mean it did feel seamless a
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: little bit. I was a freshman, I can I can
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: understand it probably was even harder as a transfer, right
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: because friendships are already formed. It's harder to break in
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: sometimes because like we had people join our house like
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: they had already been at UC Berkeley, but they joined
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: our house as juniors. And I always kind of remember,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: I think it was harder for them to form friendships
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: because group friendship groups are already formed a little bit,
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: not to say, you know, people aren't inclusive, but but
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: I could see how that would be more difficult.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I think I had friend It wasn't it was just
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: more of am I really truly a sorority girl.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Listen again, I wouldn't take it back. It was It
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: was fun and I have still dear friends.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I loved it. I got kind of
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: busy with other stuff and so, you know, to some degree,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I went all I was kind of more all in
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: in the earlier years and then I kind of got
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: more involved with other stuff, and I feel like I
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: made some of the greatest friends I have there, and
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: you know, and I kind of cherished that. But yeah,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I mean I think there was a time that came
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: that I kind of was like, you know, I don't
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I think there's other stuff I might
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: do a little more. And then we had people who
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: deactivated because they just felt it wasn't a fit for them.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: We definitely had that, and I don't think anyone took
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: a person.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: So, Katie, were there.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Secret rituals, things that you remember as a pledge that
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: you could share with us?
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I think being a pledge was like
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: my favorite time in the house. We felt so celebrated.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: The members really went all out to celebrate us, to
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: make us feel welcome. We had an awesome like pledge leader,
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: you know, one of the chapter members takes the job
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: of being a pledge leader. We had an awesome one,
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: and we just felt so welcome. You know. We had
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: to learn all the like songs of our sorority and
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: we kind of loved that, and we had activities constantly
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: and just like we just felt welcome. But like one
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: of the things I remember, which was like so specific
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: to sororities and named sororities in the nineties, I don't
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: know if they still I'll do this, but puffy paint
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: and paint pens on like we would get all these gifts.
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: We had this thing called the Secret CIS and then
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: that person became your big sis and so like for
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: like a week, you didn't know who this person was,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: and they would do they would leave you secret grifts.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: They would plan like secret little like I don't know,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: I got an invitation along with three other pledges to
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: show up on the roof. We had this really pretty
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: roof and show up for dinner. And we had this
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: like and what are your favorite preferences Sushi, Italian whatever,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: And we showed up and like, we have no idea
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: who planned this thing, but we had this really awesome dinner.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: But all these gifts with puffy paint like decoration.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, do you remember.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: That pillowed photo albums like you know a little plastic
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: like photos and you know frames and when.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: They get a signed I guess little sister, Little's, BIG's
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: whatever the big. I just I remember with Rachel, I've
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: never seen anything like it. She would get boxes upon
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: boxes of clothes and jewelry and her big w The
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: boxes were yeah, it's a hole.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: We got like ribbons, I mean it was it was crazy.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you remember you know it's funny because you
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: talk about I remember there was always like there was
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: a mean pledge.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: There was like what was it called them, like a
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: mean pledge.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: Pledge chair and a nice clo Oh that was like yeah,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: they almost like did that, I want to say, on purpose,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: and they were like they were like pledge whatever. Anyway,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: So at one point, one of like the initiation rituals
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: was that they kidnapped us, right, and they took us
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: to some room somewhere and they had a scale in
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: the room and they told us that they were going
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: to weigh us and line us up in order of
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: our weight. And I was I thought I was going
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to pass out.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Wow, right, I mean they didn't do that.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, they didn't end do it.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: It was a joke, but it was not a funny one.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: But there were some like that was like the mean
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: you know, there was a mean one and a nice one.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard about. So here's the difference between the
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: you know, you and I are a few years apart
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: of age, and that's the difference.
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: Right, the few years that were apart, a lot changed
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: already because there had been some major hazing incidents.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: I mean not to say we didn't have stuff like that.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: But but and now I think it's probably like they
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: take it very seriously because these things are dressed in
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: a very serious way. But like I remember hearing stories that, yeah,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: they would take pictures of the pledges in like a
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: bikini or something and then they'd circle the fat you know,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: on the picture. Like I remember hearing stories. We didn't
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: have that. I mean, we did have a bit of
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: like I would call it fun hazing, like it was
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: you know, I.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: Like wearing stupid shit on campus.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like that kind of stuff. It wasn't anything that
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: felt traumatic for me now that said, like I don't know,
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: there might have been people who did feel whatever they
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: were asked to do it was traumatic. And yeah, there
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: was like a little bit of like tough love that
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: maybe came from like some of the seniors or something
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: like that. But like sometimes what I realized is it
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: meant like you know, they'd make you take shots or right,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: they'd like kind of called to you. Now, it's interesting
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: the kidnapping, we actually reversed it. We had a tradition
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: called Pledge sneak Night where we would plan to kidnap
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: the whole chapter and all the members and we'd plan
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: like a whole fun party, and that was always like
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: one of the traditions I loved about being a Pledge.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: We had the best time. We really did a whole
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: like extensive like we actually runted a bus and like
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: went all over the Bay Area and we had like
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: a whole succession planned that and then and then the
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: joke is we always did like Monday night was chapter
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: meeting night, and so that was always the easiest time
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: to do it because like you never knew when you
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: could get everyone together, and like members would always kind
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: of as a joke, pretend to escape the room, like
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: we try and lock them in and get everyone in there,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: and they and I think we hired a fireman stripper age.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: I guess it was a surprise. And then we had
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: a bunch of fraternity guys come and guard the doors
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: so that no one could get out and chase people down.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that was something that was something I was
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: always a fun tradition, and it was fun for members
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: too because you never knew every Pledge class did something
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: really different and really fun. But yeah, no, I mean,
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: these are good memories, and I mean, but I also remember,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: like as a member, we knock down drag out fights
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: over girls during the rush process, like it was a series,
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: And I wonder how they do it now, you know,
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: like in light of like how they've changed even the
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: recommendations to make things more inclusive. I wonder how they
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: manage Like back back when when we were in sororities,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: like the process was every day a rashi gets a
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: bunch of invitations, Like at the end of every day,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: the house has to decide who to invite to the
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: next day, and the numbers come like every day Reshi's
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: visit fewer houses and the numbers get cut and so
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: like as you get toward the end of rush week,
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: it's a really hard decision for the houses to decide
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: who to invite because like girls get you know, members
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: really want certain people. So like at the end of
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: every day, we would lock ourselves in the dining room
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: and discuss every single girl and it got really right, yeah,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: it got really really take sup oh yeah, And I
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: mean and sometimes we were still debating, like long after
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: midnight and like the wee hours of the morning because
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: we couldn't come to consensus.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Right we I remember, we would literally just put our
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: heads down. I mean, this is how talk about like
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: good old days and like raise our hands.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know how like there was no like that's
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: how the decisions were made in the end.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: And we were supposed to obviously see each other's vote,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: but I don't know.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Everyone was peaking.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the discussions they would go on, and the arguments,
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: and I mean it really got I remember one of
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: the members stood up and said she would deactivate if
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: if we didn't give a bid to one of the
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: rushi's that she loved. Like it got really, I mean,
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: this was a passionate thing, like and so when Reshi's
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: like think, oh, I got to impress them.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Like it's a hard decision for the for the houses too, right,
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: It's not like.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: You know sometimes they have to cut girls they don't
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: want to cut or can't agree on.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Right right, right, Yeah what about So now let's say
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: we're in the and I'm wondering, well, first, you know,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: was there did you just already have a certain reputation
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: on campus?
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: Was it known for anything?
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: I mean I've been like staying away from saying like
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: we were kind of the it so you know what
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, when everyone wanted I stayed away from like
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: trying to be a leadist or whatever. But I think
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: to some degree our house was maybe thought of that way. Yeah,
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: I mean I can say from like my perspective, like
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: some of the greatest girls were in that house, you know, like, yeah,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: they were smart, they were pretty, they were awesome, they
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: were fun, they were great people, they were good friends.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Like yeah, I remember, like though it was like it
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: was also important because you're trying to figure out how
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: to get into the best house so you could meet
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the best.
• 30:43
  Speaker 5: Guys, right, like so interesting, which yeah, because there was
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: sort of alliances between certain houses and certain fraternities a
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: little bit, like the fraternities would invite certain houses to
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: their parties and stuff like that exactly. But and I
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: remember it's funny to use then because we used to
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: have mixers. This is not all about I don't mean
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: to make this all about religion and being Jewish, but
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: that's just my experience. But I remember that some of
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: the fret houses, like Jewish girls had this reputation that
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: like it was okay for them to have sex before marriage.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Oh interesting, in the Catholic and religious ones not so much.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so you know, a lot of the like
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of the houses would want to like have
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: mixers with.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Us, do you and just in terms of mixers, do
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: you remember so? I?
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Uh so, first we would have a match, so we'd
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: have matches and then mixers. And at the match you
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: got asked hopefully lots of times you didn't, but you
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: got asked to wait, No, you got asked to the mixer,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: and then the match. The match, Yeah, you got went
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: to a mixer, and then you got asked to the match.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: And if you didn't, you hung out with the girls
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: that didn't get asked.
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Oh like this, Oh my god, really all this?
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm really sorry.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I think I'm putting I am paidtiness Like it was
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: this traumatic, you know experience for me. And I loved
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: being a FI and I love Greek life. It just
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: wasn't always it wasn't It wasn't maybe always right and
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: didn't always feel natural for me, But I would do
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: it again. I don't want to make it sound like
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: it was so awful. It really really wasn't. But like things,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I just remember that you were so it was so intense,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: like I don't know what your this situation, the situation
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: was with you in terms of like the mixing and
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: matching with frats. But that was a big part of
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: it all, you know, for us back then. And you know,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: you couldn't even at u T like you you did
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: not go to football games if you didn't have a date.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: So obviously he's a huge football school. So you didn't
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: go if there, if you didn't have a date. You
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: and when you did have a date, you got dressed
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: up for these football games.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm talking about, you know, how things have
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: changed obviously.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, has that changed in the South?
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard I've heard that it has, but you know,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I would think so. I mean we're in you know,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I hope that things would have evolved
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a bit.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the football games too, like you don't need a date.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, we were always very aware that in California
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: it was really different than the South, right, Like, sofe
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: still is different.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I bet you it still is.
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: I'm guessing probably that, I you know, I don't know,
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: I would think so, Like some of the traditions are
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: just a lot stronger in the South, maybe, and we
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: were a lot more casual about things like I remember
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: hearing about like friends at southern schools needing dates to
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: go to the football game, yeah, and getting dressed up,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: because that was not what we did at all.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: And a lot of the parties, I mean, the way date,
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: the way parties worked for us was a little less
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: structured that way. So like fraternities might have a big party,
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: and then they might have date parties where each guy
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: would ask a date, and then we had I think
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: all of our parties were days parties where you'd ask
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: specifically ask a date. We might have had some bigger ones,
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: but generally, I mean it was different too, right, because
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: a fraternity at the time would have parties at their house,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: whereas we were not allowed to have parties without cahol
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: at our house, right, and so we would have to
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: like rent a bar or a restaurant or something like that.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: And so a lot of times it was date parties.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: You'd ask your own date, and so there wasn't really
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: like a structure around who got invited, who didn't get invited?
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Can you go? Do you not go? Right? And if
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: a guy asked you to a date party, you know,
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: you didn't feel left out if you didn't get asked
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: or whatever there were I mean, but we did have
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: some legendary parties. I remember in fact, we got in
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: big trouble for one of our parties and we got
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: put on probation like everything. Oh my god. So we
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: had a party called the set Up your Buddy Party,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: where you did not choose your date, someone else chose
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: your date for you. And it was also a graffiti party,
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: which meant.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: That we were all white.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Yep. We wore white T shirts and we had pens,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: and everyone would just graffiti all over each other, which
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: like I would equate to like you know how Halloween
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: parties sometimes get a little more like wild because when
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: you're dressed as something else, you lose your inhibitions a
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: little bit. I guess I had equate it to that.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: So and so the way it worked was you would
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: actually make a T shirt for your date, not knowing
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: who your date was going to be, and it was
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: usually some kind of funny like and so that way,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: and then the dates would the girls would all go
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: to the party location first, and then the dates were
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: supposed to go to our house after we left and
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: pick up the bag with their name on it that
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: had the T shirt and whatever like bun snacks and
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: shot you know whatever, those little bottles alcohol whatever it
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: was in a shot, glasses and pens of course, graffas
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: and so like I remember I think I was I was,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: where's Waldo? And my date was Waldo? Or like you'd
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: find some like combination of spaghetti meatballs whatever. Yeah, And
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: so what happened the year I was a pledge is
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: the party got really out of control and the party
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: actually ended early because one of the guys, so the
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: party was at this like restaurant bar, I don't know
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: what it was, that was like on the water and
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: there were some docks and stuff under he fell off
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: a railing like he was just I remember watching him,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: like he was sitting there and there's his date, and
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden he's gone, and like his
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: dates standing there like with their arms up, like looking lost.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: And it took a while for people to figure out
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: that he was sitting on the railing. He fell off
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: the railing. Fortunately he fell onto a dock rather than
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: in the water where he probably would have driven. People
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: were so drunk nobody even realized what happened, and an
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: ambulance came. Party was over. But the problem was, since
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: the ambulance came and like all this stuff had happened,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: what they saw was that girls were passed out under
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: the sinks in the bathroom, like no one noticed what
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: was happening. Like it was really a disaster. We got
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: in huge trouble. We were put on probation from the
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: national Organization and our advisors. They brought in an alumni
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: from our sorority who was a recovering alcoholic to talk
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: to us about alcoholism and how, you know, just having
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: a good time drinking in college is how you know
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: she used to just think it was fun in college
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: until she realized it wasn't. So yeah, I mean sometimes
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: parties got out of control.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they you know the difference though between then
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: and now. So I don't know how you guys did it,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: But like you would have, we didn't have cell phones, right,
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: so nobody was taking pictures because if we did at
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: the time, I'm sure I would have it would have
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: been I would have gotten myself into a lot of trouble.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: But like we used to have like mister photo tech
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: guy come like a week later after the party and
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: you could like pay for the memories that you want
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: to keep. I don't know if you had that, like
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: like all these different pictures and they were all labeled
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: and it'd be like APHI and CBT Texas, Oh you
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: weekend or whatever it was, and so it was harder
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: to prove that, you know, I don't know bat was
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: going down because you couldn't.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: There was no real photo documentation of it.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: That's right. I loved those parties. I mean, I have
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: a huge puffy album. I hate these albums with like
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: some kind of fabric and like all this like puffy
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: puffy stuff to make a puffy I have a huge
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: album with all those party picks. I love those party picks. Yeah,
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: we had mister photographer man Mark. Mark was exactly that
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: we order our pictures. But you're right, things weren't documented.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking a lot about just like the secrets and
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: the traditions that we had that would not I don't
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: think wouldn't fly today. And I mean there were certain
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: things like did you guys have got it? I feel
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: so old when I when I say this, But we
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: would have the those ceremonies, those pin the pin ceremonies.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: I'm saying it right where get pinned? And then you'd
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: sit down with a candle. It was called a candle lighting,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and we'd sit in the living room and we'd pass
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: the candle around and whatever girl like was pinned, the
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: candle would stop at that girl. And I think about
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: the fact that that was it wasn't an engagement, right,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: it was some girl was being engaged to be engaged.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, did you do that?
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, now, first of all, sweet I was I
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: would kill my daughter now she was pinned. She would
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: have like, I'll tell you to your bed at home,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: little girl, you know.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, we didn't mean it's interesting because we used
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: to hear that that had been a thing, right, because yeah,
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: like most girls were not I mean in the nineties
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: at UC Berkeley, a lot of girls, I mean some
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: maybe thought they would be getting married soon, but a
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: lot of girls, I don't think we're looking to get
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: married any like right away. Like I think a lot
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: of the girls kind of wanted to a little bit
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: experience life before that. But but so we would hear
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: about these things, and we kind of thought it was
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: a thing of the past, right. But then actually we
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: did have a pinning and it was really sweet. There
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: was this I think when I was like a freshman
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: or sophomore. She was a couple of years older, and
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: she and her boyfriend had been dating like all through
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: college and they were just the sweetest couple and he
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: pinned her and it was really sweet. And I don't
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: know if like they even knew like what the tradition
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: or how it was done, but it was really really sweet.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: We all were there and they are married still and
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: two of their kids go to East Berkeley. I mean,
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: I just saw them. They're happily married, their kids are
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: like grown.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Up in college and amazing.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: It's just the sweetest thing, you know.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: We I just think this conversation is so interesting in
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: terms of like, you know, Texas versus California, and the
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: difference is I'm I'm I don't know if anymore. It's
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: they're so stark the differences are. But I would think
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that they they like a college like Berkeley, just I
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: would think inherently would be.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Less traditionally Greek.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: And you're exactly right, and we always kind of knew that.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: So like, I think California is going to be different
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: than the South, which you're right, and then you see
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: Berkeley maybe, but like I know, I think Stanford. So
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: they didn't have a house, so they had to come
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: to our house for their initiation and all the less
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: ceremony of everything, and so I would say like probably
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Stanford's like we were, I don't know about like you know,
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: UCLA and places like that, Southern, oh I, Southern California,
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: like USC might have been a little more like a
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: southern situation. Like I had friends that were in houses
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: down there that was probably a little closer to what
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: the South was. But yeah, UC Berkeley I think was
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: certainly less traditional, although like you know, some of the
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: rules really got enforced. So I mean, like with the
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: Rush rules like that you couldn't talk to people like
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: I got in trouble. So I was actually president of
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: the whole sorority system, the Panmadanic system.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like so you're kind of like you're supposed to lead.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: That's like, that's what is it, that's the lead information.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I was talking to a president.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: And the rule was during Rush, we actually had to
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: be sequestered. We had to stay at a hotel, like myself,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: the Rush heare, and all the whole council that was
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: involved in the whole sorority system. We had to like
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: extract ourselves from our houses because we had to be unbiased,
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: like we were part of the whole rush process. We
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: were supporting Rushi's and we couldn't have an agenda like
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: around you know, who we wanted for our house or
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: anything like that, and so we had to stay at
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: a hotel. We had to be like sequestered from our house.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: It was actually like really sad because I missed my friends,
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: you know, it was like kind of sad, right. I
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: enjoyed being with the other like people from the council.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I remember Daisy and Gia, my two co hosts,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: talking about that.
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I got in trouble because I you couldn't
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: talk to anybody. I actually went to visit some friends
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: at a fraternity house and someone spotted me and reported
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: it and I got in serious trouble for that. So,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: like you know, it was it was relaxed at Berkeley,
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: but like some things were serious.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: There are Yeah.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: I remember, like, yeah, Daisy and g said there was
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: always someone who had to be impartial.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: They were it was somebody in Greek life.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there was leading the groups you know, rushies around, right,
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: and so it was very important that you didn't know
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: what sorority that person was in.
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah. And then the other thing is like there
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: were some other things that were like very specifically yucy
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: Berkeley that was so different. Like so remember you know
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: what I was talking about that the Rush sneak party,
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: like when the Reshis would sneak out and play in
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: a party for all the members, right, And there was
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: one year where they did like a whole.
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: Mexican theme night and so tequila shots, sombreros, like it.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: Was just like a whole party theme. And you know
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: in the nineties, there was a restaurant called Chevy's in
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: California or it was like Texmax.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know because they had it in Austin.
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: I still do absolutely, And what was your Birthday? Like
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: you'd get us some morero, they'd sing, you know, it
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: was all part of the celebration. And so it just
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: felt like a way to celebrate. And we had a
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: house next to us that wasn't a sorority. It was
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: actually yucy Berkeley had these themes houses, and that was
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: I think it was called Kasawaquina. It was like a
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: house that was with Hispanic people, right that lived there.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: And so here's this party. Everybody's like going out to
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: the bus.
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: We're in sombreros, tequila, the whole thing, and they're all
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: standing outside at the house next door or standing outside
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: looking really upset.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: And a couple of us stopped and said, is everything okay?
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: And they said, no, it's not. It's actually very insensitive
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: what you're doing. Those hats represent you know.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: People who's who are picking beans in the field, and
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: this is really culturally offensive to us.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: That to you it's a party, but to us it's heritage.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: And I had you know, I think now these things
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: are more understood how to be insensitive to different cultures,
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: But back then it wasn't something people understood or talked about.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Right, No, I mean I had never heard of the
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: cultural appro she appropriation was not something that we thought
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: about back right.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: And now, like you know, you go to a school
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: before Halloween and they have things posted saying, you know,
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: certain Halloween costumes are offensive to people and you can't
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: do them anymore, right, Yeah, cultural things, And we didn't know.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: When it got.
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: Reported to the university, we got in trouble with university.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: We had to go through the whole like judicial process
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: and hearing and everything, and it was it was this
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: really difficult thing because like we were almost like we
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: didn't know but we were almost embarrassed to say we
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: didn't know. But that was UC Berkeley. It was a
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: little bit ahead on stuff like that.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: So interesting because just in terms of I'm interested in,
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: you know, when you look back at all of your
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: experience rushing and being in a sorority, the impact that
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: it has had on you. I think that the part
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: where you kind of learn, or you're actually learning, learning
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: about what's okay what's not okay socially and you know,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: in terms of just the world around you. I mean,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I think that a lot of that good stuff does
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: happen in a sorority. You know, you're in this little
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: microcosm where you're surrounded by you know, other women of
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: the same age, and and you have an opportunity to really,
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: you know, not just have mixers and matches and parties,
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: but kind of grow and expand your horizons a little.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Bit, right right, and be a better person.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I think do you feel like that after Yeah?
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: I mean I do you.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Had it had that kind of an impact on you?
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: I mean I would say even like if somebody's they
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: would check our grades, Like if your grades weren't above
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: a certain level, you'd have to go in and see
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: the standards group, which was like the Yeah, I mean
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: there was I would say, like, yeah, I mean the
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: girls in our house studied, got good grades, like you know,
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: we're serious about school. And I think there was like
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: you know, a common sense of values. But those were
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: but that was like the culture you chose right and
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: the people you chose right at the time, right, some
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: comes from national but yeah.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well listen, I absolutely loved having you with me.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: I think that there's so much you know, I've now
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: sort of you've ignited this little spark in me. I
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: think it's so interesting to compare colleges on the East
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: Coast the West coast, you know, the sorty life and
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: how it differs, because it sounds like it really is
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: definitely different, you know, at someplace like Berkeley versus University
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: of Texas. So yeah, yeah, i'd I'd love to talk
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: more about that. Yeah, but I absolutely I loved having
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: you on. Thank you so much for joining me. Is
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: there anything else you want to tell us about or no?
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: This was fun. I think this was I mean it
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: was fun and interesting for me to learn too and
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: hear about your experience.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, Well I thank you and it's
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: also nice for me to have somebody you're you are
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: younger than I am. My friend, but who's not, you know,
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: twenty five to talk about this.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: I thought about it or talking about in the long time.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: It is fun. Okay, So thank you, thank you Katie. Yeah,
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: take care of you, you too.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: By