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The Guantanamo Torture Drug You'll Probably Take Someday (COVID-19 Update Edition) · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, this is Adam, host of the podcast you're
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: about to listen to. Just a heads up. We recorded
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: this episode featuring guest co host Adam Ganzer, way back
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: in August of twenty eighteen. It was a subscriber only episode, though,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: so it's been locked behind that sweet sweet Patreon paywall
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: ever since. But we're re releasing it this week because now,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: almost two years later, it has become horrifyingly relevant to
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: what's happening in the world right now. And by that,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: of course, I mean COVID nineteen. The episode is about
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: an anti malaria drug that, as it turns out, can
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: cause serious and scary mental health side effects when taken improperly,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: so much so that it seems pretty clear that at
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: one point the United States maybe used it as a
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: means of torturing and interrogating detainees at Guantanamo Bay. The
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: name of that drug mefloquin. If that it sounds vaguely familiar,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: it's probably because Trump has been pretty aggressive in suggesting
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: that two similar drugs, chloroquine and hydroxy chloroquine, might be
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: useful in treating the symptoms of coronavirus. And you know
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: what that might be true, but that absolutely does not
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: mean you should hit your nearest online pharmacy and start
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: pounding chloroquin pills the second you get the sniffles. Please,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I implore you, if you are the type of person
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: who takes their medical advice from the former reality television
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: star currently occupying the White House, listen to this episode.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: As much as I hate your voting decisions, I still
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: don't want you to die. I mean, you are listening
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to my podcast, after all, so you can't be all bad.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: So I'm just saying, before you decide to start self medicating,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: please take what you're about to hear into account first. Also,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: at various points throughout this episode, you'll hear this sound,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: which means two things. One, the purge has started, but
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: that was like two weeks ago. Also, it means I'm
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: about to jump in with an update regarding what we're
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: talking about. So with all that said, let's get to
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: the episode.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Conspiracy The Show with your hosts Adam Todd
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Brown and Connor Mixed Pattern.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm Adam Todd Brown,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: I'm Adam Cancer. We're two Adams. This is Is this
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: your third.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Episode of Conspiracy This yeah, man, but it feels like
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: the first every time.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Every time it's always something new and fresh. It really is. Yeah,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Connor mcspadden, like I said, last episode, I think was abducted.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I remember a black van. I remember dudes in black suits.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Connor got thrown in back. I said no quietly from
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: a distance because I didn't want to get too involved
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: and get thrown in that van myself. Strange smell of
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: almonds and then suddenly, yeah, it's all really weird. He's
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: allegedly writing for Roast Battle on Comedy Central right now.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: At least that's what they want you to believe.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: Isn't that The Bruce Willis one he wrote for the
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Bruce Willis done right, But now Roast Battle is back
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: for a third season and Dirty Little Secret Sometimes those
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: comics don't write.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Their own jokes. Shocking none. Yeah, So Connor mcspaden is
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: off being the jay Z of Roast Battle, ghost writing
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: people's jokes for him.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine what that writer's rooms like. They they
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: just got to put a name on a board and
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: just like, what's the meanest thing I can think of
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: to say?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, Connor will be back at some point. He's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: just busy right now, y'all. And in the meantime, boy,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: are we talking about some crazy shit today. This one
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: really blew my mind. Yeah, I had heard remise. I
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: had heard nothing about this. Yeah, and I just I'm
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: not even sure how I found it. I think I
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: was just going through headlines looking for topic ideas, and
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: I found something about mefloquin. Well.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I was gonna say, I was impressed, A that you
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: found out about this B and your audience doesn't appreciate
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: this as much as they should. There are literal abstracts
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: of graduate papers as sources for this material. I was like,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: my god, how fucking involved did you get in this research?
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I do not fuck around, No, you don't research.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I read an abstract for this fucking wow. Yeah, the
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: we're talking about mefloquine yea, which I think that's how
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: you pronounce it. I always heard it methlick win, but
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Mefloquinn sounds better to me, so I'm gonna
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: go with that. I'm just trying to overpronounce that e
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: in case any grammar Nazis are out there. You're a
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: genuine kind of guy. Yeah, exactly, And mefloquin. It's just
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: a drug used to treat malaria, so it shouldn't be
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: And it's weird how this worked out. I just heard
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: about the fact that malaria drugs can give you like
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: weird dreams and hallucinations. Yes, a couple of weeks ago
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: when we had Greg Edwards on the main un Pops
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: podcast and he mentioned he had to take malaria drugs
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: because he was doing comedy somewhere overseas and he had
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: to take it, you know, because you take it in
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the build up, Yes, you do in case you might
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: contact might come in contact with malaria and you've taken
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: it also, I have.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to China for a month in the
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: year two thousand and.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, two thousand.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Go on.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: It's been so it's a real solid pull, thank you. Yeah,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I had to take it for essentially
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: three months. You have to take it for a month
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: before and then during the time you're there, and then
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: a month after. And I was My understanding was that
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: it's preventative, right, it's not just like treatment. It's also preventative.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: It's also not as successful as you'd think.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what's weird, is there are alternatives that aren't
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: quite as gnarly to take.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Well, they the doctor. When I was asking the doctor
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: these questions. I mean, you know, again, this is year
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: two thousand, and I have to say, this whole story
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: is just further proof to me that we can't really
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: trust anything from the Bush era. Oh it's just nothing
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: from that era it's trustworthy at all. Uh, Like we're
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: gonna find out literally every fucking doctor was on some
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: kind of power trip.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: In any case, they they when I was asking the
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: doctor the questions about this, they essentially said, yeah, like,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: this is your best chance not to get malaria. Said
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: it's like, well, how good of a chance?
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Pretty good? Pretty good chance? Nice?
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, cool, thirty.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: It was not a reassuring thing.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Also, people get sick from this, oh yeah, yeah, they
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: get like nause and stuff. And then of course now
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: we're going to talk about a thing they didn't talk
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: to me about at all.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Psychosis. Yes, it'll psychosis from this and just a little
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: bat right off the bat. You know, it's suspect because
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: as all good drugs are, this was literally developed by
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: the US.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Army and that's gonna be their legacy. I'm not historically, right,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: it could be, it really could yeah, yeah.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: And it was developed in the seventies at the Walter
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Reed Army Institute of Research, which look into Walter Reids
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: sometime conspiracy to enthusiasts, there's a lot of weird shit
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: that happens at Walter Reid. Right, this is a fuck
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: is Walter.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: You've never heard the name before, but now I'm gonna
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: look into him, because this is another man who's responsible
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: for the death of the sixties. Right here, this, this
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: truck tells you the free love is over.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And this was the first venture between a private company
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: and the US government. They first submitted yeah, and it
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: came to widespread use in the eighties. The brand name
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: is Larium. It's currently manufactured by a Swiss company called
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Hoffmann Laoch. You like that German spin. I put on
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: a what's supposed to be a Swedish.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Na I think anytime, I think, anytime the possibility of
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: mental side effects to a drug comes up, it deserves
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: a little German spin.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta put a little German stake on it.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: And this is on the World Health Organization's list of
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: essential medicines. And what do you mean by essential. Then
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I think it's I actually read a description and didn't
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: put it in the notes, but I think it's the
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: list of medicines that any developing countries should have an
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: abundant supply of to maintain their status as a developing country,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and they fall into a nasty plague of malaria. Malaria
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: is fucked, by the way, Like, yeah, my sister has
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: had malaria.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, and she almost died from it. It
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: was no joke. Yeah, it's a it's malaria as fucked.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Mosquitoes kill more, yes, people than anything on Earth in
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: terms of living they like living creatures. Mosquitos are the
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: deadliest animal. Is that true? Yeah, that's because of because
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: of malaria. Malaria is pretty bad. That's why I get
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: so frustrated with the the DDT thing. Yeah, Like DDT
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: had pretty much wiped out malaria in Indonesia, and then
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: we were like, oh, but it's killing these falcons, right,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: And it turned out the falcon thing was junk science,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: fair enough, but we still like quit using. But we
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: love falcons so much. We love falcons so much. Look
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: at New York.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: They're littered with falcons, falcons everywhere in that fucking city.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Rat falcons.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: They really do, by the way, and I'm not this
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: is not just my sister that I had another friend
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: who also had malaria. And the thing that is consistent
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: to cross both accounts of malaria is it's the most embarrassing.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Disease you can get.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Oh really, well, it's every whole all day. Oh really,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: it's real rough ough, every hole all day. Yeah, I
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: guess that makes it. I mean, if it kills that
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: many people, it's gotta be no good.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's it's an actual parasite that gets in
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: your system.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't it never leaves, so that you can
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: have flare ups later in life from malaria. Ugh.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So you know, until I.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Read this, I thought meflick win was a real public service.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the thing. It's fighting malaria is obviously
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: a good thing. But in twenty thirteen, and even this
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: seems way late, the FDA added a warning to the
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: US label of meflic win regarding the potential for neuropsychiatric
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: side effects that may persist even after discontinuing administration of
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the drug.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: And don't you want to see the Netflix documentary that
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: resulted in that sentence?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah? You know what I mean, it's got to be coming, yeah,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: because we're going to get into some shit that it's
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: fucking crazy. Yeah. Yeah. This does feel like it's got
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: the potential to be that sort of like Flipper Baby's
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: drug that was all popular in the sixties and seventies.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: What a great Yeah, great man, you were pulling great ones.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And when I say popular, I mean developed by the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Nazis and legitimately ruined lives. It was all that used
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: a lot. Yeah. Yeah. What was that pholidimide? I think yeah,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: was the flipper Baby drug. And some of the effects
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of mefloquin include nightmares, visual and auditory hallucinations, anxiety, depression,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: unusual behavior behavior, and suicidal ideations. And the recommended dose
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: for preventive treatment is two hundred and fifty milligrams every week.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: That's an important number to remember, two fifty a week.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: As we go through this briefly, that list of things
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: you said, it's like, there the accounts of this are
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: all pretty graphic, Like it's not just people imagining they're
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: committing suicide. It's like murder suicide shit, right, It's like
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Chris ben Wah shit. Yeah, I mean it's it's it's
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: really gnarly.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: And there are uh we're probably going to talk about
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: it in a second here, but there are actual murder suicides,
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: right that are maybe linked to this drug.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: And I think that's just important for the audience, Like
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: we're not talking about like, oh, the effects of depression.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Can be these it's not just that you have the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: sad right. No.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the craziest you know, this is this
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: is a violent drug in terms of after effects.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Chris Benoit is a good touchstone, right for that.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, this drug doesn't make you put a Bible
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: by your children's head and stuff. Did you have you
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: ever heard the ben Wall story?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: No? Oh, I shouldn't go in. I mean, I know,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I know what happened, but.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Like just the details of it are like, oh, I
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: should look into fuy.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: We did an episode of list Cast once, which I
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: need to have you on that podcast sometimes. It's a
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. Yeah, And it was about best wrestlers
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: of all time, and someone picked Chris ben wah in
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: this comedian it's like picking Cosby. Yeah, you can't do that.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Come on, you can't do it. This comedian named Andy
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: Andy Peters, who is one of the funniest fucking comics
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: working today. It was Quincy Johnson who picked Chris Benoi,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and Andy was like he murdered his family. Quincy, right,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: most lethal finishing move in the game.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: That's fucked well, especially because his finishing move was a
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: headbutt a flat Headbut and it's probably the concrobably stuff
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: that made him crazy. Yeah, but Meflquin and CTE Sharon
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: common that they both caused you to go crazy and
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: murder people.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, and Mefloquin, it's been implicated in a bunch of
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: incidents going as far back as fucking nineteen ninety two,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: so we've known it has the potential to do bad
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: things for a long time. What happened in ninety two?
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: And how magical is it that this was Canada? Because
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: we always picture the Canadians as being the really friendly, pleasant,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: pleasant bunch that they are, right, I.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Imagine they're military trotting a lot, yeah, you know, lots
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: of junts.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Trotting, fucking handing out candy to the.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Locals, informational pamphlets that have good, sensible information.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: And invitations to Canada, all that shit. But in nineteen
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: ninety two, something called the Somalia affair happened, and I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: didn't put all the details in here, but basically, Canada
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: sent a group of soldiers to do basically humanitarian stuff
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: in Somalia when this warren Somalia was happening, and four
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: of them just fucking started murdering people. That's like shooting
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: people in the back, just like blatant murders.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Well, and your details here say it's because they were
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: given an experimental injection of mefloquin. Yes, so, but the
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: drug existed for twenty two years before that, right, right,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: So what does that mean?
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's all the details we had. This
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: is actually a bigger deal in Canada than it is here.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Well, who does that surprise? Yeah, this is probably the
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: last time they murdered in the army, you know what
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: I mean. Also, I love that they call their thing
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: the Somalia Affair and we call ours black Hawk Down.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: We had exactly the same story, but.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: There sounds like a weekend in Mahampton Sinnars is like
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: we're gonna fucking.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Murder everyone exactly. But like even just mefloquin itself is
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: a big news story in Canada and you just don't
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: hear about it. As much here. So, yeah, the Meflquin
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: was at least tied to what happened in nineteen ninety
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: two in Canada. And then ten years later in two
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: thousand and two, there was this outbreak of murder suicides
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: at Fort Bragg in the United States. Four military wives
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: were killed and two of the partners that killed them
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: also committed suicide, and Mefloquin was suspected as being a
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: catalyst in those attacks.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Also, forget this is Fort Bragg? Is that I believe
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: it's in Texas.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Either that or I have made a bunch of military
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: people really upset California told you it was in the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Texas of the West coast the California.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: It truly is we tuly are the lone Star Republic
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: of California. Yeah, I asked that because I think it
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: does matter where these people are stationed, right, and how
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: you interpret this story.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Right, Because what happens is a lot of these soldiers
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: they'll go to places where malaria is Like you might
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: just get stationed where malaria is a thing. So when
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that happens, you're not taking it for a few weeks
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: because you know you're gonna briefly come in contact with malaria.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: You're just taking it every week. This is just part
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: of vitamins for you.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: And it seems like we made that a policy without
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: really looking into the long term effects.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But how could they not have known the effects if
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: the drug existed for twenty two years. I mean, I
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: don't want to jump ahead, which I always do on
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: this podcast, but like.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Well, also jumping ahead, it's not just that the drug
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: existed for twenty two years. In the fifties, the class
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: of drugs that this drug belongs to was tested as
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: like a chemical war agent, like a psychotropic right, right, right,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: So they had to have had some ideas, And I
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: wonder if they were like, but what if all that's good,
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Like what if all the extra rage and things just
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: make super soldiers? Right? And maybe it does, but it
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: seems like it also makes super sad soldiers afterwards.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Well, a murder suicide again. I you know, you can't
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: speak for everybody but soldiers. When soldiers do a murder
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: suicide to me, I'm like, I'm instantly like, Okay, so
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: something happened. Yeah, I mean, like that's not just a
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: oh we got a bad egg situation.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I immediately go to PTSD or unpaid paid A loans
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: paid A loans are a huge problem on military's But
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: that was a good joke. I liked it, everybody. I
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: liked it.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Before you go further, do we know how much? Do
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: we know how quickly mefloquin induces these kinds of reactions
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: in regular dosages. I think it's even then, it's pretty quick,
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: but it's I mean, obviously it's not happening to everyone, right,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: it takes mesquin. It's like in an obscure side effect
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: at regular dosage, I assume.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Right, And even then, I think if you take it
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: for just like a brief period of time, I don't
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: think it has the same It seems like it doesn't
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: have the same long term effects. Otherwise, everybody who's ever
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: gone to a country with malaria would have symptoms of
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: PTSD now, right, Otherwise this is when I'd be murder
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: suiciding you.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it happened, And what a great way for this
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: podcas just really stop save it so someone can find
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: it later and upload it.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Uh be like, but just please do it. Come do it.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I want you to do it. I want you to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: tired this God, this is his joker moment. I want
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: you I watch your kid, so I'm gonna read everyone
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: a really long quote from a guy named doctor Remington Nevin.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Excellent name. Yeah, if that's even your real name, sir, Seriously,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: this is a quote. Mefloquin and many related queen aline
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: anti malarial drugs induce an idiosyncratic intoxication reaction that is
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: often preceded by subtle podromal symptoms that may be difficult
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: for an individual soldier to identify, particularly in combat settings.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: The syndrome can begin with subtle mood or personality change,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: a sense of unease or foreboding, and vivid dreams. With time,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and particularly with continued dosing, this can progress to frank anxiety, confusion, restlessness,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: or depression in certain susceptible individuals. With time or continued dosing,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the syndrome can then progress further to frank psychosis with paranoia, delusions, hallucinations,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: and depersonalization. Hallucinations and depersonalization have you ever had that
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: happen to you?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: No?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: I used to get consistently high on cough medicine, okay,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: and depersonalization is a side effect of that, and it's
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: a weird feeling.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: What does that mean that you don't see yourself as
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: a person.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you kind of lose sense of you're almost
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: like living outside your body, and it's like things are happening,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: but you don't have a sense of that actually being you.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: That the things are happening to weird and it can
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: get fucking grim a bit. And here's the rest of
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the quote. The psychosis is particularly frightening and is associated
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: with a risk of particularly grizzly misspelled violence and suicide.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: Because he spelled it like grizzly bear, didn't he Maybe
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: that's what he meant.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: I guess lots of throat tearing and ballo.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, literal bear shower summons them. I often compare this
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: toxic reaction to that illustrated in m Night Shyamalan's film
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: The Happening with a little reference. Yeah, that's a very
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: bad reference, like what plants start killing you? Spoiler alert everybody.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: You get the bad actors? Yeah, from Mark Wahlberg at
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: its worst.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Mefloquin is a horror film in a pill and this
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Remington Nevin guy. He was previously trained by the military
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: as a preventive medicine physician, and he was alerted to
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: the military's carelessness prescribing mefloquin when in two thousand and
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: seven he was deployed with the elite eighty second Airborne
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Division as the senior public health physician for US forces
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: in Afghanistan. Yeah.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a pretty credible person to be saying this.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if anyone's gonna say it, it's going to be
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: the who was embedded with troops in Afghanistan.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, is he the only person that we have
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: that is giving this h No.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: No, there's a whole group of veterans in Canada who
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: and I think we'll get to their story, but basically
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: there they've been protesting against the Canadian government because the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Canadian government was like, oh right, we looked into it
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and didn't find any long term effects. So all your
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: health claims fuck them, Like those are related to something else, dude.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I just don't I just don't want to
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: follow my like with the Alan Dershowitz situation, you know
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: what I mean, where it's like, oh, this is like
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the one credible mind. Oh yeah, that's on the wrong
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: side of an issue.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, like yeah, or Jenny McCarthy, very credible
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: but so wrong on the anti vaxxer thing. Uh oh, Jenny.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: So he described at one point being handed a garbage
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: bag full of drugs and being told to reach in,
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: grab some and start taking it. No instructions, oh, supervision
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: know anything. And this is the doctor. When when was
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: this that he was doing? This was I believe two
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: thousand oh, two thousand and seven he was deployed with
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: deployed in Afghanistan. Still the Bush era, Yep, he just
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: pointing that out, So doctor Nevin. He noted several incidents
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: of soldiers with mental health conditions still being given mefloquin.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Which that's a thing about mefloquin. If you already it's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: kind of the case with any drug. If you already
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: have mental health conditions, don't take a drug that is
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: known to give you mental health conditions. Well, obviously, like
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: whenever you see a story and I'm just telling you
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: this so you're less afraid of drugs listeners, but whenever
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you see one of those a guy got high and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: ate his roommates long that guy was maybe going to
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: eat along at some point without drugs. Also, but does
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that include the bath salts guy?
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: I think so, like without bath salts, maybe he would
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: have robbed out anyway.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Think of how many bath salts are sold to this country,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and how many stories of face eating zombies you've heard?
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Not that many.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I mean I wish i'd heard more of the second. Yeah,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: maybe first too, I wish yeah, both on.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I wish we have some bath salts right now, be
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: fucking amazing too, That would be that would have been
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the ideal conditions to do this podcast.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Just pop in some bath salts, maybe do a bath, like,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: just do this in a bath like that.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: We have to have top out there. Yeah, now we're
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: onto something here, hot Top.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to point out so like we kind
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: of glossed over this garbage bag full of drugs metaphor
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: so like, to me, the idea of this drug being
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: passed out as though it's condoms at a frat party, yeah,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: is like, well, so it says one of two things
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: to me. Either they are so grossly negligent that it's disturbing, right,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: or that they just sort of assume a level of
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: human care, like individual responsibility.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: That really is also.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: Disturbing, right, because it's like, even if this drug was
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: like fucking like a vitamin like just a vitamin B
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: and they're handing out in these this much.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a problem.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: You gotta watch them. It's a huge fucking drugs they Okay,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: this seems like a good time to jump in. So
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: we just talked a whole bunch about an actual doctor
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: sounding the alarm decades ago about how dangerous mefloquin can
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: be when taken in the wrong way. Now you might
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: be thinking, sure, but at the beginning of this episode
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: you brought up chloroquine and hydroxy chloroquin. No one is
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: saying people should take mefloquin to treat coronavirus, and hey,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: right you are. But also those three drugs all end
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: with the same suffix for a reason, and it's because
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: they're very similar drugs. That's how medical terminology works. No
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: matter what other letters are present. If you see itis,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: you know you're talking about inflammation of some sort. Same
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: deal here, mefloquin, chloroquine, and hydroxychloroquin are all the same
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: class of drugs, and they've all been shown to have
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: some pretty treacherous effects on mental health under the right circumstances.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Here are two examples, not from conspiracy websites or some
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: whistleblowers blog. They both come from NCBI dot NLM, dot
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: NIH dot gov. That is the shared website of the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: National Center for Biotechnology Information, the National Library of Medicine,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: and the National Institutes of Health. All link to all
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: of this on the unpops dot com site. Go read
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: it for yourself if you want your fucking bookworm. The
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: first example is from nineteen ninety nine, and here's the
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: summary verbatim from the website. A twenty three year old
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: man with no history of neurological or psychiatric illas ingested
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: three weekly two hundred and twenty eight milligram doses of
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: mefloquin base as malaria prophylaxis while in India. He experienced
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: an increasingly severe adverse reaction after each dose, including symptoms
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: of paranoia, hallucinations, and suicidal ideation. The man discontinued mefloquin
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: and continued malaria prophylaxis with chloroquin. Shortly after the first
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: three hundred milligram dose of chloroquin base, symptoms acutely intensified
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: and became debilitating. Severe symptoms persisted for twelve months following
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: the discontinuation of both anti malarial drugs. The next example
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: is from twenty seventeen, and it involves a gramma.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Again. Here it is verbatim from the website. We described
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: the case of an elderly woman with elderly onset rheumatoid arthritis,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: where the use of four milligrams of hydroxychloroquin was followed
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: by the onset of psychomotor agitation with marked physical and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: verbal violence toward her partner, including throwing objects at her partner.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: No disturbance in sleep, and no anxiety, nervousness, or irritability
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: had emerged before the onset of her psychomotor agitation. The
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: disappearance of agitation following targeted pharmacologic intervention and hydroxy chloroquin interruption,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: its re onset after reintroduction of the drug, and the
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: high score of Neuronio's algorithm are surely linked to the
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: existence of a causal relationship between hydroxychloroquine and psychomotor agitation.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Hydroxychloroquine may produce undesirable effects on the central nervous system,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: mainly irritability, nervousness, emotional changes, and nightmares. To the best
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: of our knowledge, there are only a few case reports
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: of psychosis due to hydroxychloricuin. No favoring conditions such as
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: pharmokinetic interactions or a personal and family psychiatric history was
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: present in our patient. The neuropsychiatric manifestations we observed could
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: be considered a bizarre type adverse drug reaction linked to
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: an individual's hypersensitivity end quote. So that is actual medical
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: professionals strongly suggesting that there might be a link between
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: these drugs, even at the recommended dosage, and serious mental
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: health issues and the kind of mental health issues that
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: come on suddenly no less. In other words, this is
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: no time to start self experimenting with quinolines, which is
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: what these drugs are called. Whether you're locked down alone
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: or with someone you love. Either way, someone's probably going
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: to get hurt, and the risks aren't just psycho logical.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: You also just might die. That's what's so super duper
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: dangerous about Trump tweeting about this stuff like it's some
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: kind of secret cure. People might have already died as
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: a result of those tweets. Case in point, on March
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: twenty first, Trump tweeted this hydroxy chloroquine and a zethromycin
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: taken together, have a real chance to be one of
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: FDA has moved mountains, thank you. Two days later, on
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: March twenty third, a man in Arizona died after self
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: treating his coronavirus symptoms with chloroquine and a zethromycin. His
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: wife took it to She is in critical condition. According
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: to Banner Hospital. This is a quote. Within thirty minutes
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects, requiring admittance to
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: a nearby Banner Health hospital. A day after that, three
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: people in Nigeria died the exact same way. Fun fact,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Trump is massively popular in Nigeria. Yes, even after the
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: travel ban, he is still hugely popular in Nigeria. Google
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: it if you don't believe me. What's especially scary about
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Trump's tweet is that while he's telling his constituents that
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: chloroquine and azethromycin might help with coronavirus symptoms, China, a
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: country that also knows a thing or two about dealing
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: with coronavirus patients, has not only pulled back from using
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: chloroquine to treat patients, they also issued a warning about
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: how people taking a zithromycin should not take chloroquin. That
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: came after a study found that taking even just twice
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: the recommended dose could be enough to kill an adult.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: The warning wasn't limited to combining it with a zethromycin,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: though they also said it shouldn't be taken by pregnant women,
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: those with heart disease, termal liver and renal disease, retina
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: and hearing loss, and patients on antibiotics such as a
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: zethromycin and steroid. So believe who you want, I guess,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: but personally fucking around with quino lines without the guidance
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: of a medical professional seems like it might be even
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: more deadly than coronavirus. Probably not worth the risk. Also,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: people with rheumatoid arthritis and lupus and all sorts of
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: medical conditions actually need those drugs to live, So you
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: hoarding them all up because the President said it might
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: help is just bad person shit. You are legitimately hurting
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: people if you do that, and you are doing it.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: There are already articles about how these patients can't find
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the drugs they need because of this fucking tweet that
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: sent people run into pharmacies to buy chloroquin. So fucking stop.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Please all right back to the show. I'll be back
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: with another update later, So they started scaling back the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: use for this in two thousand and three, but clearly,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: according to this story, by two thousand and seven they
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: were still using it, And at first they claimed it
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: was because a drug resistant strain of malaria had developed
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: in Iraq, and we learned a few weeks later Iraq
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: completely free of malaria.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: So no WMD's no malaria either. Did they fucking know
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: anything about this country before they went there?
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I think we were just like, where can we go
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: practice some shit without these fucking nosey Americans watching.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to think they might not have even known
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: which country Iraq was, you know.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fucking those days, man, the early Bush days,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: when we were in Iraq and in Afghanistan and all
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the nine to eleven hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: it's like, what are we doing right now?
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: It didn't It was like a whole new globe. It
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: was like a board game of risk just started. Yeah,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: you know, because the nineties were so chill. They were
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: pretty chill, Like.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: We had that one World Trade Center bombing, like fucking
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: you're about that didn't work? So, yeah, we we found
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: out there was no malaria in Iraq. And there's another
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: long quote from doctor Nevin which is kind of the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: same thing where he's just like, hey, this causes some
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: goddamn problem.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the only thing that's really important about
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: it is that if you're in the military and you're
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: taking mefloquin, because being in the military is so traumatic
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: and induces mental illness, you can't tell that the drug
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: is having negative effects on you, right, And that will
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: come into play later on in this podcast. I think
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: you know that if you're in the military, you don't
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: know that this is happening to you.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you just kind of think the surroundings you're in
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: are causing correct you to have mental issues, which they
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: could a logical way to think. So there's this doctor
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Nevin guy who is is way against this. And as
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, there's a group of veterans in Canada.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, they protested in front of the Canadian
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Forces recruiting office in downtown Calgary to demand the Canadian
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: military stop using mefloquin. The country surgeon general had just
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: recently come out and said there was no evidence that
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: mefloquin causes long term problems and That means any soldier
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: who has given mefloquin and suspects their long term health
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: problems are associated with it, are unable to receive treatment
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: from the government. That's probably the darkest.
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: Thing I ever heard the Canadian government do.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, except for I.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Know they have some problems with the First Nation people
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: in their country.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I wrote an article about this for Cracked. Canada's
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: police are as crazy as ours. Oh, like Canada's police,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you don't hear the stories because it's, like you mentioned,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: it's mostly First Nation people. And even in this country,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I feel like crimes and things that happened to you know,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: First Nation people, Indigenous people, Natives just don't fucking care.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Like we don't talk about it, don't.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: It's like add it to the pile, you know what
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I mean? I mean, and I don't mean that in
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: a disparaging way. I just think that's how we treat
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: it psychologically.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: The craziest example of that is in Saskatoon. There was
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: this case called the Saskatoon freezing deaths and what the
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: police in Saskatoon and all over Canada presumably would do
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: if they arrested a Native person for being drunk in
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: public instead of taking them to jail and letting them,
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you know, sober up, and then releasing them. They would
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: just drive them out of town and make them walk back.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: And they would do this in the dead of winter.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: They would do it at any time, fucked, and it
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: was a policy for like thirty years. So for this
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: long span of time in Saskatoon, Native people were being
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: found dead at the side of the road, having frozen
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: to death and were like, what the fuck is this,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Like why is this happening? And eventually one dude survived.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: They drove him out, dropped him off. He had no
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: fucking coat, middle of the winter, and he managed to
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: make his way to a power plant and the people
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: at the power plant let him in and he fucking
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: told his story about what happened. And the thing is,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the two cops who did it were convicted on September tenth,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one, so got buried. Any fucking news
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: of it, just no one ever heard about it. But
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: it was like a thing they did forever. Yeah, Canada's
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: fucking nuts. That's fucking crazy. Mean, Canada is like sociopathic
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: about it, where they're like, hey, I'm the fucking nice guy,
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: don't you And then you start looking at it and
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: you're like, you're bad too, You're really bad.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Well, it's still made of human beings, right, Yeah, so
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: exactly there's gonna be some problems over there.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know for sure. And they're always trying to
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: keep up with us, which I keep promising our Canadian
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: listeners this, and I fucking stand by it. You're Truckump
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: is coming eight years after ours. So so twenty twenty four,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Canada's Trump will rise and we'll all have a good laugh.
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: We'll take you out for a beer, Canada. Yeah, we'll
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: have a laugh until maybe, like tons of Americans have
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: been fleeing to Canada to get rid of Trump, and
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: then Canada's Trump shows up and goes fuck Americans, get
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: them out of here, and then America doesn't sound that crazy.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: But then America won't take us back and we're all
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: living in Greenland or something. Ooh, let's talk about that, eh.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I was actually going to cut this part of the
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: podcast because in retrospect it felt like an unnecessary tangent,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: But then we got to that part about Canada turn
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: an anti immigrant toward the United States, and completely unsurprisingly
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: that's already sort of happening there thanks to coronavirus. Over
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: about a one day period, presumably the period where it
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: became really obvious that the US wasn't handling this well.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Canada went from arguing against closing the border to closing
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the border to most non Canadians and then closing it
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: to US travelers not crossing for work. So no more
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: running across the border to get cheap beer and cigarettes
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: if you live in North Dakota, which is literally the
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: only selling point of living in North Dakota. I've been
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: there anyway, as you'd expect from those notoriously polite Canucks.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Some questioned if this border shut down was contrary to
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Canada's values, to which Deputy Prime Minister Christia Freeland replied,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: we will always put the health and safety of Canadians first,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: and I think all of us feel very clear and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: very confident that this is the right direction. We talked
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: about this on this week's episode of Unpopular Opinion about
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: how sometimes authoritarian leaders and laws start as a response
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: to a crisis. Once something like mass surveillance of the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: population is put in place, even if it's under the
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: guise of tracking the spread of a disease, the people
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: in charge of shutting that stuff down are usually really
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: slow to do it, like how we're all still waiting
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: for Obama to shut down Guantanamo, for example. And now
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying Canada is gonna come out of this
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: with a lifetime dictator like Hungary very much is. But
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be at all surprised if Canada gets really
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: comfortable with fewer Americans crossing their borders over the next
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: few weeks or months. Good luck loosening those restrictions once
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: that happens. Again, none of this is speculation. Canada has
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: mostly shut down their borders to Americans. Are linked to
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: a couple of articles on on Pops about it. Here's
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: the headline of one of them from Reuters. Canada border
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: towns petrified by prospect of looser US coronavirus measures. Keep
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: in mind Trump has been to talking about opening things
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: back up by easter. As I record this, there are
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: still eight states that haven't put any stay at home
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: measures in place, so those borders aren't reopening anytime soon.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: If it comes to pass that way, more people die
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: here compared to Canada, and coronavirus becomes a seasonal thing
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: as it's been suggested that it might Canada could just
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: keep those borders on the same lockdown thereon now indefinitely,
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: or at least until we fix our broken government and
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: our second world healthcare system. Not to be all alarmist
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: about things, but that anti American sentiment in Canada is
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: already very real, and I assume it has been for
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: a while. This pandemic is exactly the kind of thing
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: that can push a situation like that way over the edge.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: So cool, let's get back to the show. What was
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: your plan?
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Your plan was to go to Canada before you imagine
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: to the Canadian Trump.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think I would go to Honestly, I
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: don't know where the fuck I would go, Like that's
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: the truth, New Zealand or some shit. I mean, you
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: gotta get there early. Australia. But Australia is terrible to
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: immigrants too. But yeah, but but probably not American immigrants, right, yeah,
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: I figure, Yeah, that's the dream. If you can seek
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: asylum by plane, your golden those are those are the
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: asylum seekers. No one minds if you arrive on a
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Delta flight, you will be granted asylum. You come here
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: on a rickety ass boat we might just murder you
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: at the border. That's definitely. So back to these Canadian soldiers.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: There's one soldier in particular. His name's Dave Bona. Well done, Dave.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: This is this is so rich with names. This it
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: really is. He was court martialed in two thousand for
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: behavioral problems that he blames on methuen, which he took
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: weekly for at least a year starting in the nineteen nineties.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: This is a quote from him. The longer I stayed
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: on the drug, the worse the symptoms became. I almost
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: shot my section commander. That seems serious. Yeah, And he
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: also said this is the next Agent Orange, which that's
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: an interesting comparison, okay, because are you you know what
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Agent Orange? They used it to DeForest Vietnam. They would
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: drop it on really heavily forested areas of Vietnam to
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: clear the trees away. It's right, right, right, Well, napalm
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: was basically a bomb, right, but agent Orange, I believe
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that's it. Let me look it up, just to make sure.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: We're learning things we learn with you guys, you.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Know, making that part up, because I can't imagine they
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: definitely weren't dropping napalm on people.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I thought that's what they were doing. Yeah, it's an
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: herbicide chemical.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it it basically clears away brush and things,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: so soldiers can see the people hiding in the trees
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: trying to go and they would just they assumed it
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: was safe, so they would just dump it. Even if
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: you were in that in those woods at the time,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: a plane might come dump agent orange and you get
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: covered with his orange shit. But the military was like,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: it's fine. You're not a fucking tree, are you your
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: fucking tree kid? No, then you're fine.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: It's so weird that the own goals that the military
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: you know, gets yeah, you know what I mean. Where
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: it's just like one person had to think for one second,
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: what if this is dangerous?
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Right? How hard is that? It's seems easy to me.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes they think that and go who cares.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: That's the scary thing to me. Yeah, that's what's frightening.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: And it turned out Agent Orange gave a bunch of
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: people cancer, Like duh, yeah, it was a very dangerous thing.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Like of course it did.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Everything from the fucking Bush era and everything from the
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: sixties is just like murdered everyone.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Man, That's just what happened. And this is Dave Bona
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: is the one who brought this up, and there's not
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: I wish we could have base the episode on this
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: because it's a really interesting idea. But he suggests that
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of the soldiers we've heard about who have
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: PTSD actually are suffering long term effects from taking mefloquin
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: for too long. This is the soldier who believes this
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: happened to him. Yes, said that, which is it? I mean,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: somebody needs to make the theory. And he's the right
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: candidate for that, right, And imagine what a fucking scandal
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: that would be if Oh, it's unbelievable if we found
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: out that all these cases of PTSD because PTSD we
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: didn't really start hearing about it until after the war
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: in Iraq, Like, yeah, well we knew other terms, did
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: we had other terms? Yeah?
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Right, shell shock and before that, yeah, you know, war
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: tremors or whatever the fuck they called it.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: In civil war. So his suggestion is, no, it's not
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of it's not PTSD, it's just reactions to
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: this drug. Which that would be a huge fucking scandal.
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine the kind of liability that would open up?
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you know what it is.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: It's like the kind of devastating mistake a government can't fix.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the kind of lawsuit you get murdered for filing.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it would be like slavery or like
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: the yeah, genocide, or it'd be like that level of scandal.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: It's like, we can't even do the law stuff that
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: would make this better.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Right, that can't afford that? Just the class action lawsuit
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: would be staggering. Well, they wouldn't win it. They couldn't.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: They they're because you can't. There's no amount of money
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: that fixes, right, millions of people's undamental lives. That's your fuck,
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: that's it, you know.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: But at least those people are back here and not
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: getting the treatment they need because it's not a technical problem. Yeah. Right,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about the craziest part of this, and
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: this is I guess where the conspiracy comes in. Mefloquin
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: was given to every incoming detainee at Guantanamo Bay, but
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: they weren't given two hundred and fifty milligrams every week.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: They were given twelve hundred and fifty milligrams within twelve
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: hours of arriving. And we're taughted away right away immediately
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: they do. They did.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: The doctor when I took this drug did say that
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: sometimes they quote unquote jumpstart to you on a methoquin. Wow,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: it's too close to the day. Yeah, So that's what
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: this sounds like to me. It but it's like what
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: six doses? Yeah, fucking crazy.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the dose that they were given. Is
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the dose you're given if you have malaria, right and
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: you're trying to eradicate it from your body. That's that's
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: what I heard. And so one Army public health physician
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: called this pharmacologic water boarding because the like, if you're
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: taking that much in that short amount of time, those
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: mental effects it causes are just gonna be that much worse.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Right, There's some real like Stephen King level like quotations
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: in this fucking story. Oh yeah, like what the other
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: guy said, this is the horror This is like the
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: wholerror movie of pills. Yeah, the horror movie and a pill.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: What did he just say?
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: It was?
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: It was pharmacological water water boarding.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Man, there's some some real poetry here in these people's minds.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: And like I said, that dose is for if you
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: have malaria. None of these people were even tested for malaria.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Just as soon as you hit the door, Natasha, a
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: couple meths and tell you to take them twelve hours
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: apart or some shit toss the liamania. Yeah, you just
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: give me that shower or whatever. Yeah, And the thing
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: is the this is the Department of Justice definition of
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: torture or this is included in the Department of Justice
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: definition of torture. And this is a quote drugs and
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: actions that penetrate to the core of an individual's ability
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: to perceive the world around him, substantially interfering with cognitive abilities,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: or fundamentally alter his personality. So giving someone drugs that
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: fuck with their head is among the definitions of torture
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: according to the United States, as it should be.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, Like nobody's like that's a dumb definition, right,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: everyone agrees with this definition.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah you know, yeah, so, and so the effects of
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: meflic wind fit in the definition of torture. And this
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: is where the story gets insane.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: So just really quick, none of the facts so far
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: are disputed, really no, like, so that's to this point
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: in the podcast. Everyone agrees that all these things have happened.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: We're not I don't think we're going to cover anything
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: that's at all in dispute here. There's I mean, except
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: for except for why is it happening? Yeah, why is
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: it happening disputed? And that is it's an obvious lie.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: What they said is they did this to, you know,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: keep malaria under control in Cuba, and we bought that
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: excuse at first, and then someone was like, hey, there's
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: no malaria in Cuba and they were like yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: but we're just trying to keep it from coming here.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: It doesn't get here if we hit out of this country,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: and that sounds like a good excuse, which isn't until
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: someone pointed out, well, what about all the workers who
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: built Guantanamo Bay that came here from like India and
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: all these places with China that actually have malaria. Did
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: we give them twelve hundred and fifty milligrams of methlquin. No,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: we absolutely did not. So there was no concern for
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: people actually coming from malaria areas into Cuba to build this.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: But for some reason, when we were bringing detainees, it
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, we gotta keep malaria at bay. So
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: they were lying.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: You'd think, well, not just that, but they is there
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: any reasonable explanation.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: For it that you can imagine. No, there's not. I'm
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: having a hard.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Time also other than like like sort of catch twenty
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: two ish, like shitty procedures that somebody somewhere generated, Yeah,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: there were didn't see the inconsistency, and like, workers aren't
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: required to be subjected to this because they're not in
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: our custody, whereas these people are in our custody, so
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: we have to treat them for malaria because that's one
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: of the checklist things.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like sounds dumb to me. There were
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: only three people among all the detainees who showed any
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: signs of malaria.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, nobody's disputing that they didn't have malaria. Yeah, like
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: we all agree on that. I'm just wondering, is there
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: any way this is some bullshit catch twenty two.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: It seems like if it was. If it was, they
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: would have said that or stopped, yeah doing it. So, yeah,
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: only three of the detainees showed any signs. And this
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: is the point in the notes where I mention that
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: the class of drugs that methyloquin belongs to, which are
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: called queeno lanes, they were part of a nineteen fifty
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: six human experiment study to investigate quote toxic cerebral states.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: So that was its.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Primary purpose, yes, and when fixing malaria is a great
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: secondary right, like how viagra is for high blood pressure.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: So good.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love this so much. And so that was
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: part of mk Ultra, which if you've been listening to
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the podcast, you're very familiar with mk Ultra. As Connor
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: calls it, the name brand mind control program, it's the
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: one we fucking know about. And just a reminder, Mkultra
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: is a real thing that lasted decades. It lasted at
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: least from the fifties into the seventies. So just the
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: fact that this class of drugs was tested in that way,
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: and now we're getting a bunch of people into our
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: favorite torture and detention center, and now we're giving them
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: that class of drugs in an unspeakably high dose that
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: no one can explain. You just do the math. We're
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: torturing people with this drug. We're trying to figure out
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: if it will help us interrogate people. Because they also
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: when detainees were brought in, they were given a scolpamine patch,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: which has for decades been referred to as the truth drug.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: So we were trying to fuck these people up and
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: get them to admit to some terror shit.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Just going back, so you would think if you're in
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: the military that just having the brand association of a
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: drug with MK Ultra means don't do it. That's like,
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: that's like a cereal advertising this is the number one
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: best service, like cereal from the concentration camps in Germany. Yeah,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: they loved them there, you know. I mean it's like, no,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: you don't, that's not gonna work.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: I sometimes wonder if that's what happened with Coke zero
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: because Coke zero, remember, not too long ago, they changed
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: it to Coke zero sugar.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I know. Yeah, say, I've been tracking with Coke zero.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: And the sweetener that they used in the original Coke zero.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: When you would drink it, you'd get a little burn
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: in your throat, like a really pleasant burn. Yeah, little fizz.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: And the drug that they or the sweetener that they
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: used in Coke zero, was on a list of potential
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Nazi chemical war agents at one point, and during the
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Obama administration we were like, Eh, that's weird. But I
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: feel like when Trump came into office, people gonna be like,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: get that Nazi shit. Out of my coat right exactly.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: And then they changed it to Coke zero sugar and
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: just put aspartain back in it, and now they're gonna
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: kill us all that way.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: You think if Trump doesn't, if something terrible doesn't happen
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: to Trump, which is pretty big, if jail or whatever,
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: and he just goes out of office one day, that
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: he'll ever look back and be like, man, if I
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: wasn't such an asshole, I could have gotten away with.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: So much more stuff.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, probably you might regret his assholeness, not because
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: it was wrong, but because of what it prevented him
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: from getting away with. Yeah, you know, that's that's a
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: real dark I guess, like silver lighting.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a dark time in this country.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: It really really is. So back to Guantanamo former chief
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: surgeon no, no, no, former chief surgeon for Guantana. I literally
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: had any way back to Guantanamo written in the notes.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: You sure did look at it right there. A former
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: chief surgeon for Guantanamo's Task Force one sixty, Captain Albert Shimkiss,
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: first claimed that the decision to use maflick Win on
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: income GETMO detainees was done at the behest of the
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: local Cuban population.
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: So that the lies begin, right, the Cubans wanted us
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: to do this, Yeah, okay.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: And it gets worse. When he was pushed on the issue,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: including questions about and mentions of the fact that Cuba
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't have malaria, he admitted that he and others had
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: been told there were quote, certain issues we were advised
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: not to talk about. I am shimkuson.
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: He threw a smoke bomb and disappeared, Like, that's the
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: last thing you want to hear the government tell you
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: when it comes to a drug they've been giving every
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: fucking soldier for years.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we can't tell you. There are certain redacted that
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: we redacted redacted, right, And I don't like that. I
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: like any of that. And as we mentioned earlier, none
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: of the foreign workers who were brought in to build
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Camp Delta, which is one of the camps at Guantanamo Bay, Yeah,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: none of them were given these doses of malaria, even
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: though they were coming from countries that had rife with malaria.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: I'm still gonna interject with that one point, even though
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's valid if they were really concerned about malaria,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: which they're not, right, I still think that there is
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: some like the US does have a different obligation to
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: people in their custody than they do to people who
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: are employed by Yeah, that's my only counterpoint to it.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: But even then, this is a drug that's only supposed
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: to be given if you might come in contact with malaria,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: which are not going to going to Cuba, and you're
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: supposed to test people for it first if you think
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: they have some sort of symptoms, well in, and even
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: then the dose they gave them, right, is so outside
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: the normal dosage for this drug when you're using it
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: to prevent malaria or treat malaria.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: My friend who, my friend Tim who got malaria, doesn't
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: still take mefloquin to keep people from getting it from him,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: and didn't after he came home and got better. Right,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: So you don't need to take mefloquin to prevent the
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: transmission of malaria from you to another person.
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: Oh interesting, I don't think.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unless you're fucking biting people or sticking
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: your blood in their blood. If that's how your friend
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: biting people, I hope be sticking his blood in their blood.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: I just walking around fucking injecting people with vials blood Yeah,
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: that's what a cool friend he'd be.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Can we get him on this podcast? I wish. So
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: let's talk about the effects of a twelve hundred and
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: fifty milligram dose of mephloquin. There is actually a case
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: study on this. A man who has given that dose
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: almost immediately driven to psychosis. That's insane. And this psychosis,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: psychosis is insane. Yes, get word player, put that on
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: a T shirt.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: You can't see this, but he's just whirling revolvers in
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: his hands right now, spinning them.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: Yep. And this psychosis lasted for weeks. Within a day
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: of taking the medication, he experienced vertigo and insomnia. Days later,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: he was experiencing anxiety and nervousness and began to have
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: unusual conversations about spirituality and religion with his wife. Really
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: need to know what those were. I need to know.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: But also I can't think of anything more terrifying than
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: when a person who never talks about God just sud
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: you and starts talking about God's scary why Yeah, no contexts?
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, and but it's unusual conversations. I don't
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: think it's unusual because their conversations about spirituality and religion
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: I think it's like his doors to perception were open.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like it's that
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. But we also don't know who's writing this.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: He might have been like, what if Jesus was black.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: They're like, oh, that's weird, that's strange. Write that down,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: redact that man. And he began to have difficulty following
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: conversations and became suspicious of his wife's fidelity without reason.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: That's a bad sign. Yep. After two weeks, the patient
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: still displayed signs of anxiousness, agitation, and delusions. At that point,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: he was admitted to it. Just at that point he
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: was admitted to a hospital. Well, so I assume that
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: means two weeks after they stopped giving it to him, right,
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Well, because he just took the one dose,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: that's it. He just took this once. He took the
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: twelve hundred and fifty miliground. That's it.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's fucked. I don't know why it didn't occur
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: to me till now, but once.
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is someone who took and this is what
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: every detainee was given, was the dose that this guy
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: was given. And at that point he's admitted to a
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: hospital where a record show he exhibited paranoia and agitation.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: He almost immediately reported suicidal ideation and attempted to escape
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: from the hospital. Staff had to place him in restraints
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: due to quote profound psychomotor agitation and psycho motor. Excellent
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: band name, but yeah, yeah, my favorite Motorhead album m
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Psycho Motor.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: That's a good one. He was medicated for acute psychotic ajutive.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: So that's all the information we have on this man.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: And like, what I want to know is did he
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: ever fucking get better?
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Is he bane?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: Now?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Guy, they don't really say. But even if he didn't,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: just the fact that all those people who are coming
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: in and were getting that dose, how many of them
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: did that happen to? Like that? Yeah, what are the
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: percentages on this? Like I wonder why we're pulling out
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: of the UN's Human Rights Council.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: What's that about? Like, that's that's a good question. Yeah,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: I like that question.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: And so almost not like you said, almost none of
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: this is in dispute. There's no one saying.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: I haven't heard anything that's been disputed yet.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they they definitely gave every GEMO detainee this dose.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: They admitted it. They they lied about why they did it,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: and then wouldn't tell us why they did it once
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: the lie was uncovered.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: So what you've implied so far is that this was
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: done as an interrogation tactic.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think interrogation tactic.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: So my only I just like to bring up counterpoints
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: just because I think it's fun.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: My only counterpoint to that is does this drug make
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: people when people get in this agitated state, do they
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: give you secrets that you want to know?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: I think it's to help with that. Remember they were
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: given the other drug, the truth one. Yeah, yeah, which
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: so it's in conjunction. Yeah.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: I think it's like a little pain to get them
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: talking and then a little truth to get them telling
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: the truth things.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I think it was just kind of a cocktail of
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: drugs meant to get people to talk and probably easier
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: and beating them with chains or whatever they were gonna do. Yeah, exactly,
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: backing them having Lindy England point at him and shit
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: the uh. And I imagine the other kind of Devil's
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: advocate argument for this would be well did we get anything, like,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: did they tell us anything? Did they give anything up?
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: And my comeback to that would be how do you
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: know we've tried this before? Like this might have just
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: been us going, what if we give them a bunch
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: of that malaria drug and put a fucking patch behind
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: their ear and see what they tell us? Like we
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: this might have been where we tried this for the
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: first time.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: It does seem like again in the Bush era, like
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: there was a sort of like moratorium on crazy ideas
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: that was gone right ahead, like let's try that's where waterboarding.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Like how much did we hear about water boarding before
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: the Bush administrator? I had no idea what it was correct,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: and I still kind of want to have it done
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: to me, just to see what it feels like.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: Here, Well, it's drowning. It's yeah. They put a wet
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: rag over your face and just keep drizzling water and
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: you can't like like whenever you breathe in, you take
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: in more water, and I think it's a thing that
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: can kill you. I've heard that it's pretty rare for
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: it to be fatal. Oh okay, I've heard we got
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: water in these fans. It's a little musty, but stick
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: your tongue on. I just put that van right right
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: on there, so there isn't really enough evidence to say
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: exactly why they were given these drugs. And that has
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: a lot to do with the government with fusing to
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: release detainees' medical records.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: But I think that's gonna be fucked whatever that one
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: of those records. Say, Yeah, come on, you don't want
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: to get that. I mean, you do want it because
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: of truth, Oh yeah, we want to see it, but
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: you don't want it because like it's gonna be a terrorist.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: It's it's gonna be like Trump's tax returns. Yeah, that's
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: like those things are gonna howl from the undead darkness.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: Man, gonna open.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: Those pages and it's just gonna be a wolf howling
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: in there, you know what I mean, Like just ghoule screen.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: I can't wait. Everyone at the IRS just immediately incinerates
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: in place. Exactly.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: It's gonna be like opening the fucking necronomicon, man, fucking
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: stock market crashes.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: And so like the only real if no one had
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: malaria and there wasn't a malaria threat in Cuba, Yeah,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: no matter why they did it, The only real thing
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: you can draw from this is they wanted those side effects.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: They wanted what what this drug causes to happen to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: these people who were coming in. That seems SHIPMO pretty
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: tough to argue against.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and because like there's so many more, like the
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: humane reasons to stop doing it, and the cost of
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: generating and giving people mefloquin alone. Yeah, should be like,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: don't do this, right, you know, don't do it. Here's
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: my dream version of this conspiracy.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: Sure, we open Guantanamo Bay and it's basically like Toys
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: r Us for torture. We're just like, yeah, throwing everything
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: at the wall to see what sticks, and we do
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: this mefloquin thing, and now everyone in Guantanamo Bay is
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: fucking crazy. Of course, and Obama comes in office and
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: people are like, cool, he's finally gonna close Guantanamo Bay.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: And what if someone got in Obama's ear and was like,
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: we can never let those people go.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: It is really strange that he didn't close it. Yeah,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: it's really weird, and it's strange. It would have been
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: such a win for him.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: There are people in Guantanamo who are not going to
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: have their cases heard until like twenty twenty five, and
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: they've been there since like the nine to eleven days
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: early two thousands. So I just wonder if there's something
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: about the people in Guantanamo that we cannot let them
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: out and be exposed to the public. Right if they're
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: all the joker now yeah, yeah, they're all just fucking insane,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: right or yeah, I mean they have something to say
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: or like just take one look at him and you'd
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: know that we were the villains from seven. Yeah, like
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: just everything sucks. Do you think like Hillary Clinton and
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Tom Hanks will be given methloquin when they're all taken
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: to Guantanamo? Just QAnon conspiracy? Have you looked into that?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: He is he against Tom Hanks? Well, the QAnon conspiracy
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: at least one aspect of it is that there's just
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: this global cabal of like child sex traffickers and pedophiles,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: and that it includes like Tom Hanks, Hillary Clinton, and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: that at some point point they are all going to
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: be rounded up under the Trump administration and sent to Guantanamo.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: Oh, Trump's gonna fix the problem, of course. That's great,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: of course, And that just feels like a person who
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: like googled what the Dark Web was, you know what
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, It was like, oh, yeah, that's where, and
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: then just like wrote their own fan fiction.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that's what that shit is. Yeah, it's pretty
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: fucking I do think they're gonna meflic in Tom Hanks, though.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: I hope he makes a movie when they do.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he doesn't need it, but he you know,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: who knows what he would do with that in a system? Yeah,
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: who knows how he would use psychosis.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: I met Colin Hanks once Tall Drink of Water that one. Yeah,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: his fucking tall. What's he like? Six y four? Yeah?
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: He was in line behind me at a concert Jason
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: isbel concert and I just turned around and was like, fuck,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: you're tall, and you're also Colin Hanks, but yeah, he's
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: that was the second thing. You're tall?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Also, wow, I loved you in Orange County. How tall
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: is Tom Hanks? I don't know, six two Probably he's
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: pretty tall. Yeah. I remember that time he found some
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: college students ID and like posted it on Twitter and
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: said he'd get it back to her. And I was like,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: Tom Hanks is trying to fuck, But isn't he like
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: super in love his wife? Like isn't Tom Hanks like
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: maybe because college kids, you never know, that's true.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: They could have an arrangement, but Tom Hanks does honestly
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: seem like the one Hollywood actor that's like kind of
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: just a good guy, you know what, I'm right, And
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: that's all the more reason to assume he'll be in
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: Guantanamo Bays certainly.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Of course, that's why he fits this narrative perfectly, perfectly.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: It feels absolutely cosmic to me that Tom Hanks managed
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: to come up on this episode that we recorded almost
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: two years ago, because oh man, is there allowed to
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: talk about when it comes to that guy and coronavirus.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: When he was one of the first celebrities to test
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: positive and go into quarantine. My immediate thought was, why
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: did it have to be Tom Hanks? Not because I
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: especially care about Tom Hanks as an actor, but because
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: I knew it meant the QAnon crowd was gonna swing
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: into action online, and of course they did. Tom Hanks
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: is like top of the pyramid when it comes to
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: celebrities who, it's assumed by them, are going to be
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: rounded up and subjected to a military tribunal by the
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: Trump administration because of their involvement in a global sex
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: trafficking ring. So when I heard Tom Hanks's name, I thought,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: here we go, and sure enough, there we went, and
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest, for a second, I was like,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: holy shit, is this really about to happen? But no,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson are both back home and
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: recording reggae tracks with Chet Hayes or whatever they do
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: to pass time. The most recent suggestion to come from
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: the q crowd is that John Podesta and Huma Abidin
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: will be arrested April tenth or April eleventh. That is
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: a few days from now, So I guess we'll see
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: how it goes. Maybe they will be and there will
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: be an entirely different tone to this podcast next week,
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: but I feel like they won't be. This has basically
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: reached doomsday cult status at this point, but one that
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: moves way faster like as opposed to suggesting that the
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: world is going to end every few years, in making
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: excuses when they turn out to be wrong, QAnon suggests
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: it like every few months, and then when it doesn't happen,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: the people who follow it come up with their own
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: explanations for why it didn't happen. Case in point, Twitter
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: user at storm is upon us suggested a few days
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: ago that, in his version of how this all plays out.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: The arrests happen later in the year after Trump proves
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: to have handled the COVID nineteen crisis capably and effectively,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: which seems even less likely than Tom Hanks drawing his
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: celebrity energy from the glands of traumatized children. To me, anyway,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: let's bring it on home. So that's the Mefloquin episode.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: I liked this theory.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: It doesn't seem shocking to me. This seems like, sure,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: why not.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, given our history, the government's history of testing shit
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: on people, this isn't at all out of line with.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: What we do. We've been so reluctant to take any
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: moral responsibility for Guantanamo Bay. Yeah, Like it's like it's
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: like a screaming child in the middle of a theater,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: and we never fucking look at it, right. Never, It's
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: like we're all just too polite to look at it.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: Like there aren't even that many people there are still, right,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: but we all know about it. It costs something like
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: I think a million dollars per year per person in
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: Guantanamo Bay just to keep Guantanamo Bay open. Sure, and
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: it's it's like what are we doing? Like why what?
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: What are we containing in there. Yeah, what do we
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: got in there?
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: Like what if it's just a fucking band of super
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: terrorists now, or like jacked up an aggressive on methlick
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: when we're probably just giving them more to see if
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: we can finally flip them to our side, then we'll
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: send them back down.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Or it's just a hundred bands in there. Yeah, but
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: not Bane from the fucking movies, Bane from the comic books.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole thing. Oh I like that theory a lot. Yeah,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: right up your alley. I knew you'd like that.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I can't see any good reason for them
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 2: not to be using this to just inflict some pain
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 2: on people.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like that's what they're doing. Yeah, or
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: that's what they did.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I would have believed this theory immediately if you
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: told me it's it started during the Bush years. Yeah,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: and they believed there was malaria in Cuba without checking
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: for it. Oh, yeah, and they believed there was They
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: believe there's malaria in Iraq. It didn't check for it.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: We certainly did crazier things based on an assumption under
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: the Bush administration.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: That would have been so mundane effect it wouldn't have
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: made it into a show like Homeland or something, you
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: know what I.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Mean, It has made it into Homeland.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: Look, this is movies, man, It's gotta be a little
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: heightened reality, you know.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: So that's the episode. Loved it. Yeah, this was a
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: good one. What do we have to plug? Patreon dot
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: com slash on pops. You can sign up for that,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: so check that out and check out all the other
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: on pops podcasts Patreon dot com slash on pops bitches. Yeah,
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: what do you got to plug?
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: Well, you can come find me co hosting the One
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Upsmanship podcast on These Small Beans Network with Michael Swam
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: and Abe Epperson. Also you can find me on Twitter
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: at the Real Gans with a Z. Otherwise, you know,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: to keep your eyes peeled. One of these days the
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: project will drop that I'll be able to mention on
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: this podcast.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah, all right, let's get the funk out of here.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Adams say goodbye, audios, goodbye everybody.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: We love you.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: People of your findings.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: Sure,