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Igniting a Sustainable Future in Luxury Candle Making with Jonathan Horemans of Boojee · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of BK Anarchy, the future Specta, and I'm really excited because as you guys know, I absolutely am obsessed with great candles, and I'm always looking for new brands and new products to try or this new brand that I came across a while ago, and I have been obsessed.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't wait to dive in.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: But without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the founder of Bougie, Jonathan Horman's.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, John.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Happy to be here.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm excited to host you, like I said, because I love the innovation behind Bougie.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I want to learn all about that.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: But if you could kind of give us a walk down memory lane, tell us how you got started in the candle business.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know you have a very impressive background, you know.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you could tell us a little bit of how things got started.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, happily.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Funnily enough, my experience with candles started when I was back in the shoemaking industry.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I had, um, together with a former business partner, a direct consumer loafer brand.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was French.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: We had a boutique in Saint Germain in the sixth and very much focused on artisanal craftsmanship.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: They were fully made in France.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: We had a boutique, and in that boutique, as part of our branding, we also had fragrance because we thought that, okay, all the senses need to be appealed to.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And Diptyque was a few blocks away from us, and so was Sir Trudon.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So for you know, many candle enthusiasts, those are some of the best scented candle brands with really interesting fragrances, and they've been around for a long time.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: But as you can imagine, burning these every day, uh, you get through quite a few candles, right?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Especially in retail or in hospitality.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: And at one point, I was just disappointed by the amount of waste that we were actually creating with all of these empty vessels.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, especially the the Sir Trudan, they're like this beautiful hand-grown glass.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: But then, you know, what do you do with it?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: You maybe you keep one, you put some pencils or something in another.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but at one point, you know, getting through so many, you don't want to keep all these empty vessels.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was kind of a light bulb moment uh for me, and that stuck with me for a few years is why aren't brands just providing a refill?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the vessel arguably is the artisanal object that you could keep forever.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: The wax melts away, and you can simply just drop in a new candle.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really kind of the first time that kind of eureka moment happened.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely brilliant though, what you've created.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you told us about, you know, the background that you're coming from, because whenever I look at candles, I feel like half of it is, like you said, like the perfumery side of it, you know, the fragrance side of it, and half of it is that aesthetic appeal that, you know, when you pick out a candle as a consumer, at least I can say this from my standpoint, I think subconsciously a lot of it is that innate need to want that beautiful candle, like the vase and then the whatever, you know, the scent is.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right, there's so much waste, you know, and especially in the wellness industry, the beauty industry, everything, even fragrance.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: I look across and I'm like, how many times do you just throw away half a used candle?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: I like to call those the zombie candles.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: We all have those in our house that you've you've had them for so long and they're on their last leg, but you're almost scared to use it because you're like, okay, well, what do I do with it when it's empty?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's almost this kind of apprehension of finishing it to the end because then you're like, well, then now I have another empty one.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or you've had it for so long that the fragrance really isn't there anymore, but you feel bad just throwing it out, right?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it creates this like unpleasant experience where you actually end up hoarding all of these vessels with candles that you're not really using.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we wanted to move away from that.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted to give the consumer, the customer, the choice of saying, listen, I want to be dirt burning a scented candle every day.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of my home or part of my living space or working space, what have you, not feel guilty about actually consuming it because of how much they invested in it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also if they got bored of that scent or wanted a different aesthetic, you know, our proprietary wax, if you put it in the fridge or freezer for about 10, 15 minutes, it shrinks and then it easily pops out.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't get in that situation where you have that gross last, you know, inch or inch and a half of kind of dead candle.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I think it's uh the I mean the whole experience of you know what you've created is is wonderful.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as a consumer, I actually really enjoy it because I think candles, they're so tied into our self-care routines.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we, I mean, I know everyone is like, you know, you have your favorite candle, that one that you light, you know, every time you're trying to relax or you're taking a bath or whatever it might be for you, but then also the fear of like running out and the fear of being charged like ridiculous amounts to buy it again.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's also a component, right?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's just so expensive to maintain that.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like sometimes we have to like ration our luxury and our self-care experience because of that.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't see why we would have to do that.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just I love the idea, it's absolutely brilliant.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to ask you though, because obviously we talked a little bit about this wasteful nature, right, with this whole industry.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were crafting the brand and really thinking through the sustainability stuff, I mean, what were some of the things that came up?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe you could share that a little bit with us.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's making a small difference, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'd like to be part of a bigger push of us all being a bit more conscious of the footprint that we're leaving.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for me, I've always been very fascinated with products that we use in our everyday life and products that that bring us joy and looking at, well, okay, how do we at least create a few quick wins there when it comes to being more sustainable or being more eco-conscious?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember when I bought a beautiful Byreto candle for myself, and it was almost like a babushka doll, you know, like one of those Russian dolls where it was a box which had a sleeve over it, which had another box in it, which had some wrapping in it, and another box, and I got to the candle.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I looked to my side and I had this whole pile of waste.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I I can see the appeal for gift giving that sometimes you want to mark the occasion with some kind of gift packaging, but for many candle consumers, this is a regular thing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if I'm every time buying myself a new candle, I don't need to go through that whole procedure.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so one area that we said instantly was, well, we can really work on reducing the amount of packaging and the footprint that we're leaving there.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Let's scrap all of this waste.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, our refill comes kind of in like a coffee cup with a little lid, fully recyclable, paper cup is compostable, and you just grab the candle and drop it into the vessel.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who haven't tried bougie, have a look, you'll see the vessels are, you know, we now have ceramic, but you could get glass vessels, metal glass uh vessels, whatever.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the candle is just a you know a hard piece of wax, really, that you just drop in.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, if you're reordering these candles, all you get is this little cup and compare that to package in a package in a package.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one area that we thought, okay, we'll save a lot of waste there.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then, as we already talked about, the vessel itself, right?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have seen so many beautiful vessels amongst different brands and and think, well, you know, it'd be a shame to throw that away.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there's like a recycling program, but don't just think about, okay, it could be recycled, but think about, you know, you bought it, it came in a package, you're gonna go buy a new one, which came in a package, which was delivered somewhere, where you know, it's like the whole chain that goes behind it.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if we can kind of help consumers be like, well, I like this object, it's beautiful, and they may have a few and they may change them out, but just kind of really minimize the amount of stuff that's needed to kind of get back to that routine that you were talking about.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I think that's that's really interesting what you said, because when we think about sustainability, I think that's one of the big components that doesn't really get discussed is this concept of that cycle that you just described, where it's like, you know, consumers have to do so much homework to figure out how do I recycle this?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like how do I actually do the right thing?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like somewhere in that process of thinking it over, some of us get lost and we might not be able to practice true sustainability.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like when a brand gives you an option where it's so easy to do that, it really for me as a consumer, it locks me into that brand because I feel like you've really thought about my end of it, where it's like it's not that I don't want to be sustainable, it's just that it would be harder for me to go the longer route.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think in that respect, it's just something that I fully support because clearly, like, you know, if a brand has done that much homework, that's what I'm gonna go for.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Bougie for me has really changed the way I look at how I purchase candles.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it was always like I run out of my favorite scent, you know, I have to go through this whole internal dilemma of do I spend$70 again?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: On this candle.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like with what you've created here, not only is it sustainable, it's easier to make that decision.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's easier to say, no, absolutely, you know, this is something I can one afford, two, it's sustainable.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Three, I feel good about it, you know, and that matters, like that third component, the feel-good component.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, it's about forming better habits.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, it's one small piece in the bigger consumption wheel of consumers.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: But if we can help to make people more conscious of what they're doing and help them form better habits that are easy for them to follow, like you say, that there's not this, can I recycle it?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how do I recycle it?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: Where is you know, is it contaminated?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Blah, blah, blah.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: If we make it just easier for people to do a better thing, that I think is the win, while at the same time not sacrificing ultimately why they want the product, which is the great sense, the great quality, the aesthetic beauty, et cetera, et cetera.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that still needs to stay front and center.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: If we can make the things around it better, I think then the consumer really wins.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to actually um talk to you a little bit about the fine fragrance component, you know, because when when I buy a candle, I'm buying it mostly because of the fragrance.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you were creating the fragrances for bougie, like what was that process like?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where did you get your your inspiration from for the different scents?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think there are horses for courses.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of options out there in the in the scented candle space.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I told people the last thing people need is another scented candle brand.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have a starting bougie, and people looked at me in a funny way, like, well, aren't you starting one?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: The reason why I started bougie was because I thought there was a real what white space and lack in in terms of what we're trying to do.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um what I mean by that is you have a lot of DIY, you know, people who kind of create their own scents, and some of them are great.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some are more niche or choir taste.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Some people really like to make their own candles and they buy the you know, the Etsy kit or they microwave it, and they like to do that as a family.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Where I saw a big gap in need, quite frankly, was there hadn't been that evolution in uh scented candles or in fragrance more generally of bridging luxury level with mass adoption level.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: What I mean to say is, you know, Warby Parker is a great example of how they helped to popularize and bring very fashion forward frames at a much more accessible price point to a broader group of people.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas typically it was a lot of high-end Italian brands that had that kind of more um stylish type frame at a higher price point.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, well, how do we make this more accessible?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Fashion, same thing.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to some of the high street fashion companies, what they've done is said, how do we take inspiration from some of the luxury brands, but make this a bit more accessible to another group?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: On fragrance, what you had was these very complex, wonderful fragrances at the luxury level.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the more mass market level, you still had these older, more rudimentary fragrances, apple pie or sea mint or something like that.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, how do we help bring that more robust, sophisticated fragrance palette to a broader audience?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of came across these two things at the same time was well, if we can create two products from one, what I mean to say is traditional candle at that level costs you$75.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: If we can split that out into two products, which realistically is a vessel and a candle, you've already basically discounted that for the consumer by 50% because you've split those two things up.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in that way, you've already made it a lot more accessible for the consumer to get that same level of quality and that robustness for a much different entry price.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: From my shoemaking days, you know, I knew that I wasn't gonna make a shoe myself because obviously you need to work with an artisan for that and really appreciated the know-how and skills, the decades of study that it required to be good at that.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I recognized early on that fragrance is the same thing.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: So from day one, we said we need to work with the best fragrance houses in the world, because that ultimately is what a product is about is getting great fragrance to consumers.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we've partnered with Fair Maniche, uh, which is one of the largest fragrance houses in the world, with Sozio, with a few others to make sure that the consumer is getting, you know, the best noses, the best research, the cleanest ingredients they possibly could.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that took, you know, that took some convincing.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: It took some friends of friends to help us get in front of the right people and I'm grateful to them for having made those introductions because that's made all the difference, really.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I know that was a bit of a long-winded.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love that to your question.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that, I love that you responded, you know, fully because I think that's very important, right?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because the thing is the fragrances are really, you're right.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's what really brings you in.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And the fragrances of every single candle that you have in your collection right now, you can tell it's been crafted very beautifully.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, it's really a a luxury experience that you're getting.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where there's no compromise on the consumer side, from what I've noticed in the candle industry, is that we do, you know, we do dish out money for the the better smelling candle because at the end of the day, it does go back to self-care.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It goes back to that whole experience, you know.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that what you explained with cutting that$70 price in half, it's just so, I mean, it feels so logical, but I'm just wondering like, why has no one done this before this?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're still getting the experience, but for way less, you know, that you would traditionally pay.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that's amazing.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, and something to add to that, what we realized is there are certain scents that are timeless, right?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think of uh Chanel Cocoa number five, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is a timeless scent.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now we don't have a candle that smells like that, but what I mean to say is it's an iconic scent because there's something about it that for the majority of people really resonates with us from a fragrance and from a notes perspective.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a number of fragrances like that, whether you're looking at um our Socladic Native, which is a very fig-focused fragrance, or a Thorn Noir, which is a fragrance really focused on a black currant, light undertones of rose, etc.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: These have been just fragrances that people go back to and back to and back to again.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we were thinking is let's not try to be the creator of the next best hit fragrance.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, that's out of my wheelhouse.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's not my expertise.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's also not why we exist as a brand.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if people want to try avant-garde brand new creative fragrances and experiment on that front, that's not the role we play.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: What we play is hey, there are certain classic scent directions that we know resonate well and are timeless.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you come to us for some of the best in-class versions of that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and that's also, I think, again, being able to rely on the spurts, the noses to help that come to life.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, John, something that came to mind is for me growing up, and I think a lot of us can relate, is that when you would walk into someone's home and just smelled amazing, you know, like it just wonderful fragrance, and it was probably the candles they were using, you know, it's like a very signature scent to a home and a space.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that resonates so deeply because even now, I mean, those have created memories for me.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just like certain, I remember like my cousin, she always had the most beautiful candles that she would light.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember whenever I would go to her apartment, it was like the sensory experience that I had.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I would walk away from that and I still remember that.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about just an it's another candle, it's also about creating accessible luxury that can then last for a while.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not it, it becomes a part of your signature, just like any fragrance that you would spritz on yourself.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's why candles to me are so like they're so timeless because they're not just part of the fragrance category, but it's more like they really kind of leave a footprint on your space, your whether it's your living um space or your office or wherever that might be, it creates like a signature, a stamp of you.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that you guys are not compromising, I mean, you don't have to have a very like, you know, unique scent to create that.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to have a very well-crafted scent, in my opinion.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it can be familiar, but it should be like familiar in the best ways.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And also, just like we talk about perfumes like opening up when you, you know, spray them on yourself.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same with candles.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not crafting it correctly, it's going to smell like too much of one thing or too little of another.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, it's a mess.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a lot of value there that you guys didn't cut any corners.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you did go to the best perfume houses to create the scents because that matters.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask though, you know, one thing about accessibility, and I think this is interesting to me, is like, so where do you want to go from here?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, are you trying to go international with the brand or what are your hopes for bougie?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it US only right now?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: For yeah, for now it's US only.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: At one point, the logical thing would be to open it up to Canada and cover North America at first.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, having had experience, I lived in Paris for a number of years, I lived in London for a number of years, love to take it to Europe at one point, but I first really want to make sure that the American consumer is aware of us and get it to more people here first.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's our priority.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: What we'd like to do is, you know, some people um are a little apprehensive around candles because of safety, or maybe they have children or pets and they're, you know, they're wary of an open flame.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we're looking at, okay, well, what are other products within this field, this home care fragrance space, if you will, that we could maybe also provide, whether that's some form of diffuser or a room spray, to thinking about, you know, at one point, are there other elements of the home fragrance that we could get into?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think for now the focus is North America and just bringing more awareness to the value proposition that we're offering, to better habits, um, to making people understand, you know, this is that that complex luxury fragrance is accessible in terms of price point and it's it's a better habit.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's our number one focus for now.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's awesome.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I asked because I feel like they consume products very differently in Europe than here.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I asked because the feel and and the vibe of bougie is very European.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know why it reminds me of.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, and that's and that that has to do with the fact that, you know, I did have a luxury footwear brand in France for for six years and have lived in Europe for a long time.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that France as a country is a great example, kind of like Japan is, of craftsmen and tradesmen and people who have been within a specialty for generations or decades and really made that their life calling?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted to bring that kind of dedication and focus to this product to say, hey, this isn't just a crappy, cheap candle.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually working with the best ingredients and fragrance and materials and quality and really being intentional with what we're providing the consumer so that they have the best possible product and the best possible experience.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, that may it really shines through though.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've created such an amazing brand here, and I'm a huge fan.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that if anyone uh listening out there is interested in candles and you're always looking for a new beautiful scent to add to your collection or maybe rethink the way you consume candles overall.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is a really, really cool concept, and I really encourage you guys to check out Bougie.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love it, Jonathan.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's absolutely brilliant.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thought I had was like, why haven't we done this before?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it was almost like so much common sense, but it was like a light bulb, you know, and that goes off for the consumer as well, as I'm sure it did for you when you created the brand.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it really connects and it resonates.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So um I love it.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I thank you so much for sharing the journey.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And for everyone listening, if you have any questions or you have any queries, please let us know.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll tag everything in the concept bar for this episode.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Joe.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 22:17
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