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Nick Reiner Pleads Not Guilty to Parents Murders, After High Profile Lawyer Walks Away · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: Nick Reiner pleads not guilty in the murders of his parents,
0:12
Speaker 2: Rob and Michelle Reiner. What does it mean? I'm Nancy Grace,
0:19
Speaker 2: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for
0:22
Speaker 2: being with us and eerie looking Nick Reiner in court,
0:29
Speaker 2: pleading not guilty to the brutal murder of his parents,
0:33
Speaker 2: Rob and Michelle. The disgraced Hollywood son Nick Reiner looking
0:40
Speaker 2: visibly disturbed when he pled not guilty to charge of
0:43
Speaker 2: stemming from the murders of his film director dad and
0:47
Speaker 2: Rob Reiner's wife Michelle Singer Reiner. In court, Reiner sat
0:53
Speaker 2: in an odd silence behind a glass wall while his
0:56
Speaker 2: lawyer entered the not guilty plea on his behalf. What
1:02
Speaker 2: do we know about the morning his parents, Rob Reiner
1:07
Speaker 2: and Michelle Singer Reiner were found dead their throats slashed
1:12
Speaker 2: in their own LA home.
1:15
Speaker 3: Breaking details in the shocking Brentwood double homicide involving Hollywood
1:19
Speaker 3: director Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle Singer Reiner. According
1:24
Speaker 3: to TMZ, their son Nick Reiner, who's now charged with
1:28
Speaker 3: their murders, had been diagnosed with schizophrenia in the weeks
1:32
Speaker 3: leading up to the killings. His behavior reportedly became erratic
1:36
Speaker 3: and dangerous after a change in medication. Two sources with
1:40
Speaker 3: direct knowledge say Nick was under psychiatric care and had
1:45
Speaker 3: recently been treated at a Los Angeles high end rehab
1:48
Speaker 3: facility specializing in mental illness and substance abuse. That facility
1:53
Speaker 3: cost about seventy thousand dollars a month, and it's known
1:56
Speaker 3: for catering to wealthy families. TMZ reports it's that about
2:00
Speaker 3: a month before the murders, doctors adjusted Nick's medication in
2:04
Speaker 3: an effort to stabilize him, but instead his condition worsened.
2:09
Speaker 3: One source said quote Nick was out of his head.
2:12
Speaker 3: Substance abuse reportedly compounded his schizophrenia. Legal experts believe this
2:17
Speaker 3: case is headed toward a not guilty by reason of
2:20
Speaker 3: insanity plea. Meanwhile, the Los Angeles County Medical Examiner has
2:24
Speaker 3: released the Reiner's bodies to their family. Funeral arrangements will
2:28
Speaker 3: be announced later. The autopsy confirmed both victims died from
2:32
Speaker 3: multiple sharp force injuries.
2:34
Speaker 2: Rob Reiner and his wife were murdered.
2:38
Speaker 4: Their daughter came across the streets.
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Speaker 2: She was right across the road and did she finds
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Speaker 2: their bodies. They had multiple stab wounds.
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Speaker 5: I got totally spun out on uppers. I think it
2:50
Speaker 5: was coke and something else, and I was up for
2:53
Speaker 5: days on end, and I started punching out different things
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Speaker 5: in my guest.
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Speaker 2: Outs like a friend, like what like a stuff?
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Speaker 5: I think I started with the TV, and then I
3:04
Speaker 5: went over to the lamp, and then progressively I just
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Speaker 5: everything in the guest house got wrecked.
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Speaker 6: Our office will be filing charges against Nick Reiner, who
3:15
Speaker 6: was accused of killing his parents, actor director Rob Reiner
3:18
Speaker 6: and photographer producer Michelle Singer Reiner. These charges will be
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Speaker 6: two counts of first degree murder with a special circumstance
3:28
Speaker 6: of multiple murders. He also fast is a special allegation
3:33
Speaker 6: that he personally used a dangerous and deadly weapon, that
3:37
Speaker 6: being a knife.
3:38
Speaker 2: You are hearing the local district attorney, and earlier you
3:41
Speaker 2: were hearing Rob Reiner, Michelle Reiner's son, Nick Reiner, describing
3:46
Speaker 2: how he totally got spun out on uppers.
3:50
Speaker 7: Uh.
3:50
Speaker 2: I think I was on coke and something else. I
3:53
Speaker 2: was up for days on end and started punching out
3:55
Speaker 2: different things in my guest house. Let me just do
4:00
Speaker 2: a quick little correction right there. Kila Brantley joining us
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Speaker 2: a reporter at large dailymail dot Com. It wasn't his
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Speaker 2: guest house. He was living on the largesse of his parents,
4:14
Speaker 2: Rob and Michelle Reiner. And this wasn't the first time
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Speaker 2: he totally destroyed the guest house. I mean, the entitlement
4:22
Speaker 2: of this guy. Is it true? From what very different
4:26
Speaker 2: from what we first learned that Rob and Michelle Singer
4:30
Speaker 2: Reiner were found their throats slit in their own bed.
4:35
Speaker 2: Is that true, Kila Brantley.
4:39
Speaker 8: That's exactly right, Nancy.
4:41
Speaker 9: It was around Sunday at three point thirty pm when
4:44
Speaker 9: their bodies were discovered, And what we're now learning is
4:47
Speaker 9: that Rob and Michelle Reiner had been dead in their
4:50
Speaker 9: bed for some hours. So of course now the police
4:54
Speaker 9: are putting together a timeline of when this could have happened.
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Speaker 8: We know Saturday night there was a fight with.
5:00
Speaker 9: Nick and his parents at a party at Colin O'Brien's
5:03
Speaker 9: house at Christmas party, and by Sunday at three thirty
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Speaker 9: pm they were found dead.
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Speaker 2: Guys, in the last hours, video has emerged of the
5:12
Speaker 2: sun Nick Reiner. Now this is after he allegedly murders
5:17
Speaker 2: both his parents in their sleep, which are going to
5:19
Speaker 2: circle back to Phillip Dubay about I mean talk about
5:23
Speaker 2: stalking and predating upon someone attacking your parents in the dark,
5:27
Speaker 2: in their sleep when they can't fight back. After that,
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Speaker 2: and after he checks into a local hotel and cleans up,
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Speaker 2: he's spotted here, Let's take a look at Nick Reiner.
5:40
Speaker 2: This is the latest happening. Now there he is. Wow,
5:44
Speaker 2: he packed clean clothes. He has on a matching outfit.
5:48
Speaker 2: Check it out. He's got on shoes without blood, new
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Speaker 2: pants without blood. He's got a backpack, a jacket against
5:57
Speaker 2: the cold, a hat. Let's keep watching that because I
6:00
Speaker 2: see him walk in, fully aware of what's happening, going
6:04
Speaker 2: straight to the drink area. He gets a drink, then
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Speaker 2: he goes and stands in line. Yeah, looks totally sane,
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Speaker 2: doesn't he. This is from CBS News. By the way,
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Speaker 2: Philip Dubay joining us a high profile lawyer out of
6:21
Speaker 2: La County, former public defender. There's going to really be
6:25
Speaker 2: hard for his new high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson, who
6:30
Speaker 2: represented Karen Reid, to argue mental defect because he looks
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Speaker 2: completely sane right there. He knew to pack. Could you
6:39
Speaker 2: take him down please? He need to pack new clothes,
6:43
Speaker 2: fresh clothes. What happened to the murder weapon? Has it
6:46
Speaker 2: been hidden? Did he know enough to hide or discard
6:50
Speaker 2: the murder weapons so it will never be found? What
6:52
Speaker 2: knife was that? What utensil did he use to stab
6:56
Speaker 2: his parents and slit their throats? How to go into
7:01
Speaker 2: a gas station? He goes straight to what he wants,
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Speaker 2: He gets it, closes the fridge behind him, comes up
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Speaker 2: to the line, and stands there patiently waiting to pay,
7:11
Speaker 2: pays for his food, his drink. Wow, he looks just
7:15
Speaker 2: like you, debay going into a gas station. You don't
7:18
Speaker 2: look crazy to me.
7:20
Speaker 10: If you kill during the throes of psychosis, or if
7:24
Speaker 10: you kill while under the influence of some type of
7:28
Speaker 10: meth induced situation, like a form of methand psychosis, it
7:33
Speaker 10: cannot form the basis of a LEO devas. The jury
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Speaker 10: can factor it in and deciding whether or not he
7:38
Speaker 10: had the intent to kill. But you're not going to
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Speaker 10: walk away from it. And I think what the evidence
7:43
Speaker 10: will probably show is that at some point he was
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Speaker 10: going through some type of the drug induced euphoria, likely
7:50
Speaker 10: for methamphetamine, and that it dissipated and he went to
7:54
Speaker 10: what we call that meth or cocaine crash and that's
7:58
Speaker 10: why you're seeing him so calm afterwards.
8:01
Speaker 2: Uh huh, uh huh. Did you interview Nick Reiner and
8:08
Speaker 2: I learn all this? Or you just guessing? You're just projecting.
8:13
Speaker 2: He was on math, he was on coke. Now he's
8:15
Speaker 2: in a uphur a downer, and he was a psychosis
8:17
Speaker 2: at the time he murdered his parents. You're just kind
8:19
Speaker 2: of extrapolating, Is that right?
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Speaker 10: I am telling you he is a statistic He is
8:25
Speaker 10: the mirror image of that homeless drug addicted population out
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Speaker 10: there that goes through that meth or co khai. It
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Speaker 10: dissipates and then they crash, and during that crash stage
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Speaker 10: they are cool.
8:37
Speaker 2: You're saying the same thing again, Or am I caught
8:40
Speaker 2: in a demonic echo chamber? Are you making this all up?
8:44
Speaker 2: Did anybody tell you this? Are you co counseled with
8:48
Speaker 2: a high profile lawyer and you know this by some
8:51
Speaker 2: interview with a diffendant? Or are you just spinning it out?
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Speaker 10: That's the one I am enriching you as to what
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Speaker 10: the likelihood is really?
9:00
Speaker 2: What's okay? So where did you get your information? If
9:03
Speaker 2: you could reveal that.
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Speaker 10: I'll tell you what tipped me off that that's what
9:09
Speaker 10: happened when he was arrested. They booked him into the
9:14
Speaker 10: Twin Towers Correctional Facility rather than the Men's County jail.
9:18
Speaker 10: So what that and that is the largest psych hospital
9:21
Speaker 10: in the United States within a jail system. It tells
9:24
Speaker 10: me that at the point of stop.
9:26
Speaker 2: To stop, you must cut his mic because, for Pete's sake,
9:29
Speaker 2: Paris Hilton was booked in the Twin Towers. That means
9:32
Speaker 2: nothing to me. The fact that he's in the Twins Town.
9:35
Speaker 2: You are spinning out like ru rubble stilskin. You're taking
9:39
Speaker 2: mangy looking with hay and you're turning it into gold.
9:43
Speaker 2: But guess what that doesn't work with a veterin trial lawyer.
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Speaker 2: That would be me the live stop right here. You
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Speaker 2: know nothing about his mental state. You know nothing about
9:54
Speaker 2: whether he was on speed, whether it's on myth, whether
9:57
Speaker 2: he's on coke, much less euphorick downer after bottom line,
10:03
Speaker 2: you know what, why am I asking a JD like
10:06
Speaker 2: myself mental health questions when I've got doctor Bethany Marshall
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Speaker 2: with me, renowned psycho analyst, joining us out of this
10:13
Speaker 2: jurisdiction along with Dubay, author of deal Breakers. You can
10:18
Speaker 2: see her on peacock Now and find her at doctor
10:21
Speaker 2: Bethany marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Philip Dubay is talking
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Speaker 2: about statistics, and all trial lawyers know, if they've ever
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Speaker 2: tried a case and they're not just a talking head,
10:31
Speaker 2: that statistics are overwhelmingly disallowed as evidence at court. So
10:38
Speaker 2: that's not happening now. It doesn't matter if Rainer, as
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Speaker 2: in the son Nick Reiner, had been on meth. It
10:48
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if he's on coke. It doesn't matter what
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Speaker 2: he's on. Voluntary use of drugs or alcohol not a defense, Bethany,
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Speaker 2: I would like you to look at your screen. Look
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Speaker 2: at this gas station video again. A lot of you
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Speaker 2: may be wondering why is this important? Because Alan Jackson
11:07
Speaker 2: has swooped in the Karen Reid lawyer. This is from
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Speaker 2: CBS News, by the way, and I already see, as
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Speaker 2: Dubey said rightfully, that they're going to try a metal
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Speaker 2: defense argument. Okay, but look at this guy. This is
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Speaker 2: a couple of hours after he allegedly slits the throats
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Speaker 2: of both of his parents. You know why, because he
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Speaker 2: just couldn't take living in that multimillionaire home, that lifestyle
11:35
Speaker 2: he was given on a silver platter on top of
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Speaker 2: a Christmas tree.
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Speaker 7: You know, Nancy, I see somebody walking casually around in
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Speaker 7: mini March getting a drink. He doesn't show signs of
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Speaker 7: drug abuse here. He's not pacing, he's not agitated. He
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Speaker 7: looks quite calm to me. So instead of putting this
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Speaker 7: in the drug addiction category where somebody's on mess and
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Speaker 7: there's overcre which I speculated to yesterday, what I'm going
12:02
Speaker 7: to say now is that often with domestic homicide, when
12:07
Speaker 7: somebody successfully kills a family member, there's an extraordinary relief
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Speaker 7: phase afterwards, so they will be quite calm. They will
12:17
Speaker 7: like go shopping, I mean, like Casey Anthony dance on
12:20
Speaker 7: the stripper pole. They will go out and enjoy their lives. Now,
12:25
Speaker 7: in terms of drug abuse, I've been looking at all
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Speaker 7: the interviews last night, Nancy, and one of the things
12:30
Speaker 7: I noticed about this guy, Rob Reiner's son is he
12:34
Speaker 7: does a lot of what we call tongue thrusting, pushing
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Speaker 7: his tongue out as he's talking, which means that he
12:40
Speaker 7: has tart of dyskenesia, which is a signed of antipsychotic medication.
12:47
Speaker 7: Meaning this guy was in the lap of luxury of
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Speaker 7: psychiatric care. He had the best psychiatrists, the best hospitalizations,
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Speaker 7: everything available to him. I see this as much more
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Speaker 7: psychological than something that is related to drug addiction.
13:05
Speaker 2: I want to go to Rob Shooter joining us, a
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Speaker 2: star of Naughty but Nice podcast, author of a brand
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Speaker 2: new book, It Started with a Whisper, which is a
13:14
Speaker 2: big hit on Amazon now. You can find him at
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Speaker 2: Robsheeter dot substact dot com. Publicist to the stars. You know,
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Speaker 2: Rob Sheheter, I'm going to put you under the microscope
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Speaker 2: right now and do a lightning round. Isn't it true?
13:30
Speaker 2: You know Nick Reiner? Isn't that true?
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Speaker 4: I've met Nick Ryder? Yes?
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Speaker 2: So then simple answer, yes, And you have actually sat
13:40
Speaker 2: down and had a meal with him? Yes?
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Speaker 4: No, uh, coffee with him and I maybe a cross aunt.
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Speaker 2: That's not a yes, no, but whatever. When you were
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Speaker 2: with him, did he seem psychotic or just a spoiled brat?
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Speaker 4: A spoiled brat he felt titled. He turned up late
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Speaker 4: from meeting that he arranged. I didn't arrange it. So
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Speaker 4: he wanted to meet with me in La and he
14:08
Speaker 4: turned up late, kind of late late enough that you notice,
14:12
Speaker 4: not five ten minutes late late. That bothered me. When
14:15
Speaker 4: he turned up, he was rude to the staff, which
14:18
Speaker 4: is always a tell when you turn up and you're
14:20
Speaker 4: rude to people. I remember at one point they got
14:23
Speaker 4: his order wrong and he blew off the handle really
14:26
Speaker 4: shockingly shockingly quick, and then came back down and sat
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Speaker 4: and talked. He was arrogant, he was entitled, and he's
14:35
Speaker 4: sort of had the sense of himself that was way
14:37
Speaker 4: bigger than the reality. He believed that he was a
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Speaker 4: major player in Hollywood, the same way that he believed
14:45
Speaker 4: he trashed his guest house. No, you are not a
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Speaker 4: major player in Hollywood. Your parents are, your daddy is,
14:52
Speaker 4: and that ain't your guest has. It's your dad's.
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Speaker 2: Rob But why did he want to meet with you?
14:58
Speaker 2: What did he want?
14:59
Speaker 4: He was He wanted to be a really successful screenwriter.
15:03
Speaker 4: He wanted to be famous. I think he desperately wanted
15:07
Speaker 4: to step out of his mom and dad and his
15:09
Speaker 4: grandpa's shadow. He was a lost guy, and he had
15:14
Speaker 4: access to resources that the rest of us people struggling
15:18
Speaker 4: in the entertainment business would absolutely absolutely desire. He had
15:23
Speaker 4: phone numbers, he had emails, he had contacts, but unfortunately
15:26
Speaker 4: here he didn't have a lot of talent, and so
15:30
Speaker 4: he had trouble squaring that and he was looking. He
15:33
Speaker 4: was looking for somebody to come along and turn him
15:36
Speaker 4: into the next amazing screenwriter, which obviously I couldn't do,
15:40
Speaker 4: and nobody else could do any he could do, and
15:42
Speaker 4: he didn't have the gifts to do that.
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Speaker 2: Rob Shooter, you stated that he contacted you to meet
15:47
Speaker 2: with him because he wanted to become a successful screenwriter.
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Speaker 2: What is your experience, Shooter as a screenwriter.
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Speaker 4: My experience is zero. I have never written a screenplay.
15:59
Speaker 2: Okay, So what you're good at, what your forte is
16:03
Speaker 2: is you are a pr yuru. People from all around
16:07
Speaker 2: the world come to you for pr help, public relations help,
16:11
Speaker 2: whether they're in a crisis or they just want to
16:13
Speaker 2: become famous for whatever reason. You've seen it all, from
16:16
Speaker 2: Brittany to Sean Combs so many more. So he didn't
16:21
Speaker 2: come to you for help to become a screenwriter. He
16:23
Speaker 2: came to you because he wanted to be famous.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, there was no craft there. He didn't come to
16:29
Speaker 4: me to learn the art of becoming successful. He had
16:33
Speaker 4: no interest in learning his craft. He had no interest
16:36
Speaker 4: in taking a screenwriting class in learning how to do this.
16:40
Speaker 4: He wanted to go straight from zero to one hundred.
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Speaker 4: And this is not that uncommony, It very rarely happens.
16:46
Speaker 4: But everybody wants to be famous, everybody wants to be successful.
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Speaker 4: Are you willing to put in the work, the hours,
16:52
Speaker 4: the hours, the years, the years. I tell everybody that
16:55
Speaker 4: works with me for a little bit of success, it's
16:58
Speaker 4: going to take five to ten years of hard work.
17:01
Speaker 4: He wasn't willing to do that. He wanted to go
17:03
Speaker 4: straight from a zero to one hundred.
17:05
Speaker 2: Well, how did he want you to make him famous?
17:08
Speaker 2: What were you supposed to do?
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Speaker 4: He had no idea how I'd do it. He thought
17:12
Speaker 4: I'd done it for other people. I explained to him,
17:14
Speaker 4: very very carefully that I had worked with a lot
17:17
Speaker 4: of lot of celebrities, but I hadn't turned anybody into
17:21
Speaker 4: a star who didn't do the work, and that everybody
17:24
Speaker 4: I worked with, from a Jennifer Lopez to a Jean
17:27
Speaker 4: bon Jovi, works their pailoff. There's there's this thing, this
17:31
Speaker 4: this perception out there that you can become famous overnight
17:35
Speaker 4: without doing the work, and it's just not true. You
17:37
Speaker 4: have to do the work. He shows almost zero interest
17:40
Speaker 4: in that. I asked him if he if he had
17:42
Speaker 4: a screenplay, show me your play, let me let me
17:44
Speaker 4: read it, let me see. He hadn't even put together
17:47
Speaker 4: a sentence. He sent me nothing.
17:49
Speaker 2: Okay, does that change your opinion, doctor Bethany Marshall, what
17:53
Speaker 2: you were learning from Rob Shooter. Now we're getting to
17:57
Speaker 2: the very latest. We know where he's being here right now,
17:59
Speaker 2: we know what his lawyer is up to. We have
18:02
Speaker 2: seen the very latest of videos and evidence. We have
18:05
Speaker 2: evidence from the hotel where he snuck into and literally
18:12
Speaker 2: blacked out the windows with sheets hiding out, where he
18:15
Speaker 2: cleaned up, leaving behind blood in the shower, his parents' blood.
18:22
Speaker 2: Before I get to that, this is a real insight
18:24
Speaker 2: for me, doctor Bethany Marshall. I usually don't get to
18:28
Speaker 2: have this when I'm looking at a target. This changes
18:33
Speaker 2: a lot for me, this insight into Nick Reiner's mind.
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Speaker 7: Bethany, Yes, it changes a lot for me too. I
18:41
Speaker 7: was fascinated by what Rob was saying because what I'm
18:45
Speaker 7: hearing is true entitlement. Entitlement is the expectation of reward
18:50
Speaker 7: without achievement. You want to be at the top of
18:53
Speaker 7: Mount Everest, but you don't want to work out, hike,
18:56
Speaker 7: get all the equipment, try to get yourself to the top.
18:58
Speaker 7: You just want to be magically helicopter there. And so
19:02
Speaker 7: people who have severe addictions, like obviously Nick did, they
19:07
Speaker 7: have to work really hard to surmount those addictions, right,
19:11
Speaker 7: They have to go to rehab, They have to surround
19:13
Speaker 7: themselves with a community that will hold them responsible. But
19:17
Speaker 7: if you're drug addicted and entitled, you are not going
19:21
Speaker 7: to put in the work to gain sobriety. Now, if
19:24
Speaker 7: you're living in a guest house with very rich, very talented,
19:30
Speaker 7: renowned parents, what you're going to see is a sack
19:33
Speaker 7: of gold on the other side of the driveway, and
19:36
Speaker 7: it's yours. It doesn't belong to them anymore. Now, it's yours.
19:40
Speaker 7: You should have it yourself, even though maybe you haven't
19:43
Speaker 7: done anything to earn it, right, Maybe you haven't gone
19:46
Speaker 7: to Conan o'bryan's Christmas party and chatted people up and
19:51
Speaker 7: been kind and you know, taking pictures, shake hands or
19:55
Speaker 7: anything like that. You just think that it belongs to you.
19:59
Speaker 7: And so what I hear is somebody who thinks he
20:01
Speaker 7: should be famous. He doesn't have the talent, he doesn't
20:04
Speaker 7: want to put in the work. He is building up
20:07
Speaker 7: this boiling resentment towards his parents who did put in
20:12
Speaker 7: the work, and his grandfather who did put in the work.
20:15
Speaker 7: And envy, that green eyed monster envy. When you want
20:19
Speaker 7: something somebody else has and you don't feel you can
20:21
Speaker 7: get it for yourself, it causes the wish to destroy
20:25
Speaker 7: the object of your envy. And I think that's what
20:28
Speaker 7: we're seeing right now, is that he just he destroyed
20:31
Speaker 7: his parents, even though they gave him every benefit, every opportunity.
20:36
Speaker 7: He thought he could just skate in and you know,
20:39
Speaker 7: have lunch with our not ey but nice you know
20:43
Speaker 7: person here, and that all of a sudden he would
20:45
Speaker 7: be famous. It's the offending pattern. I see it everywhere now.
20:49
Speaker 7: As we're talking about it tonight, as we go to.
20:51
Speaker 2: Air tonight, we're learning the district attorney there in LA
20:56
Speaker 2: has filed formal charges including illegal eagles if you caught
21:01
Speaker 2: this special circumstances, which means the death penalty is on
21:07
Speaker 2: the table.
21:07
Speaker 6: These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison
21:13
Speaker 6: without the possibility parol or the death penalty. No decision
21:17
Speaker 6: at this point has been made with respect to the
21:20
Speaker 6: death penalty we have requested, and currently Nick Reiner is
21:25
Speaker 6: being held without bail. One of these special allegations is
21:29
Speaker 6: that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon or
21:32
Speaker 6: a knife. As to where and how the weapon will
21:38
Speaker 6: be was located or will be located, that will actually
21:42
Speaker 6: be evidence.
21:42
Speaker 2: While presenting court the murders of Rob Reiner and wife
21:46
Speaker 2: Michelle Singer, Reiner stabbed Dan multiple stab ones.
21:50
Speaker 11: Injuries to the neck categorized as slash wings, both.
21:54
Speaker 2: Their throats slit arterial bleed is like a water SPRINKLRK I.
21:59
Speaker 11: Can guarantee, but this is a blood track.
22:03
Speaker 2: And in the last hours Nick Reiner, suspect number one
22:07
Speaker 2: in the murders of Rob Reiner and wife Michelle Singer Reiner,
22:11
Speaker 2: appears in court looking grim, wearing shackles and a suicide
22:19
Speaker 2: smuck as he makes his very first court appearance in
22:23
Speaker 2: the murder cases Sidney Summer. What happened?
22:26
Speaker 12: What happened Nancy? Essentially nothing. Alan Jackson tells the judge
22:30
Speaker 12: he's already spoken with the prosecution and they agree to
22:33
Speaker 12: postpone Reiner's arrangement until the new year. So they'll be
22:36
Speaker 12: back in court on January seventh. The judge asks Reiner
22:39
Speaker 12: if he agrees to waive his right to a speedy arrangement,
22:42
Speaker 12: and Reiner meekly responds, yes, your honor. The only thing
22:46
Speaker 12: we really learned here is that Reiner is likely being
22:49
Speaker 12: held on suicide watch, evidenced by that barely visible blue.
22:53
Speaker 2: Smuck so Sidney Sumner. They spoiled Bratt, turn accused double killer.
23:00
Speaker 2: He had very little in court. He appeared behind glass,
23:03
Speaker 2: he was shackled. He did not enter a plea.
23:07
Speaker 12: Why Mister Jackson answered that for his client, telling the
23:12
Speaker 12: judge it's too early to enter a plea, as he
23:14
Speaker 12: had just a few minutes with his client before this
23:17
Speaker 12: initial appearance. It seems the court is already on holiday mode,
23:21
Speaker 12: as both prosecutors and the judge quickly agreed to postpone
23:25
Speaker 12: until January seventh.
23:33
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
23:40
Speaker 2: Nick Reiner looked thin, gaunt, with dark circles under his eyes,
23:45
Speaker 2: sitting in the courtroom in an enclosed area where he
23:49
Speaker 2: could not reach anyone else's head shaved, he had on
23:53
Speaker 2: a brown prison suit, and he sat looking glum. I
23:58
Speaker 2: guess so it's turn of events, no longer living in
24:02
Speaker 2: daddy's multi million dollar pool house, eating whatever he wanted
24:07
Speaker 2: out of their sub zero fridge whenever he wanted. What
24:11
Speaker 2: do we know about the evening and the events leading up?
24:16
Speaker 2: I am an original schedule for this week, but once
24:19
Speaker 2: high profile lawyer Alan Jackson enters the scene, Jackson waives
24:24
Speaker 2: the right to a speedy arraignment and it has been delayed.
24:27
Speaker 2: Remember a defense attorney's best friend, Delay, delay, delay, and
24:33
Speaker 2: so it has started.
24:35
Speaker 12: Well, I don't think we can be too hard on Jackson, yet,
24:39
Speaker 12: I'm not sure this delay can be categorized as unnecessary.
24:43
Speaker 12: We saw Jackson go into the courthouse less than forty
24:45
Speaker 12: five minutes before this arrangement, giving him just a few
24:48
Speaker 12: minutes to meet with Reiner and the prosecutors. I can't
24:51
Speaker 12: blame him for pushing back a plea to get a
24:54
Speaker 12: chance to actually sit down with Rener and get a
24:57
Speaker 12: better understanding of his story.
25:00
Speaker 2: Arrest of Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer, Reiner's son goes
25:03
Speaker 2: down in a public location, and eyewitnesses state that Nick Reiner,
25:08
Speaker 2: the defendant in this case, seemingly was acting like a
25:12
Speaker 2: quote ordinary guy.
25:14
Speaker 13: He was arrested in in a public area in the
25:18
Speaker 13: Exposition Park area near the University of Southern California campus.
25:21
Speaker 13: He was approached by the officers and he was arrested
25:23
Speaker 13: without incident. There were no indications that there was no
25:28
Speaker 13: indication that he was going to resist or anything like that.
25:30
Speaker 13: He didn't flee or anything like that. He was taking
25:32
Speaker 13: into custody without issue, and he was transported to our
25:37
Speaker 13: police are quarts calab.
25:39
Speaker 2: Brantley joining US investigative reporter dailymail dot com, Kella, what happened?
25:44
Speaker 2: Tell me about how the arrest went down.
25:45
Speaker 9: Yeah, as you can see from those pictures and as
25:48
Speaker 9: was described by the officer, Nick Reiner appeared very calm collected.
25:53
Speaker 9: He didn't put up a fight, and you can see
25:55
Speaker 9: in these pictures right here, you know, he put his
25:57
Speaker 9: arms behind his back.
25:58
Speaker 8: He was not a risk, He was not resisting arrest.
26:01
Speaker 9: And it appears that he was in those same clothes
26:04
Speaker 9: that he was seen in that earlier surveillance footage that
26:06
Speaker 9: you showed, so he didn't have a change of clothes
26:09
Speaker 9: and he was taken away very easily.
26:11
Speaker 2: Tell me about what was found at the hotel.
26:15
Speaker 9: It was a horrific scene. Now what we've learned is
26:17
Speaker 9: that there was blood everywhere. He's obviously changed his clothes.
26:22
Speaker 9: There was no blood on him as you saw there.
26:24
Speaker 9: And what they haven't found yet, or what they haven't
26:27
Speaker 9: disclosed that they've found yet, is a murder weapon. So
26:30
Speaker 9: obviously everyone's assuming that there was a knife that was
26:33
Speaker 9: used for those lastcerations to his parents' throat, But we
26:36
Speaker 9: haven't learned yet if that has been found or if
26:39
Speaker 9: it was found in the hotel or at the crime scene.
26:41
Speaker 2: You're right, Calebrantley, dailymail dot com. Take a listen to
26:45
Speaker 2: the LA district attorney.
26:47
Speaker 6: One of these special allegations is that the murder was
26:50
Speaker 6: committed with a deadly weapon or a knife. As to
26:54
Speaker 6: wear and how the weapon will be was located or
27:00
Speaker 6: be located, that will actually be evidence.
27:02
Speaker 8: While presenting court.
27:03
Speaker 2: You see the local district attorney seemingly correcting himself pausing
27:07
Speaker 2: there about the weapon. Well, it will be located, it
27:12
Speaker 2: was located. That tells me that the weapon has been discarded.
27:19
Speaker 2: Much like in the Brian Coburger case. We found the
27:22
Speaker 2: knife hilt with the defendants DNA on it underneath one
27:27
Speaker 2: of the murder victims, but we never found the actual
27:32
Speaker 2: knife interesting joining me. Scott Iiker, digital forensics expert, founding
27:38
Speaker 2: member of the FBI Cellular Analysis serve A Team FBI
27:44
Speaker 2: twenty two years and former homicide detective in Norfolk. Scott,
27:50
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I want to find
27:53
Speaker 2: that weapon, and after much analysis, I think the best
27:57
Speaker 2: way to find the weapon to track Nick Reiner's sell phone.
28:03
Speaker 2: How do we do it?
28:06
Speaker 14: Well, there are several different ways to do that. You've
28:08
Speaker 14: got all the different applications on the cell phone and
28:10
Speaker 14: the cellular connections that the cell phone makes all the
28:15
Speaker 14: time when it's on, so you can track the towers.
28:19
Speaker 14: You can get more detailed information from distance from the towers,
28:23
Speaker 14: and you might be able to get some information from
28:25
Speaker 14: the applications like Google, of Facebook, Instagram. All those provide
28:30
Speaker 14: some locational information, so you can track him historically from
28:36
Speaker 14: the house to the hotel and maybe or to where
28:39
Speaker 14: he was arrested, which was about, you know, twelve thirteen
28:43
Speaker 14: miles away. So there's a good amount of distance between
28:47
Speaker 14: those locations. So they got their work cut out to
28:50
Speaker 14: try to figure it out. But obviously they've got this video.
28:53
Speaker 14: They've gotten to a point they're putting a timeline together
28:57
Speaker 14: and they're just going to chronological we go through each
29:01
Speaker 14: little step to see where they could figure out where
29:03
Speaker 14: he might have put.
29:03
Speaker 2: That night vagas station video from our friends at CBS.
29:07
Speaker 2: So I'm going to go out on a limb here
29:09
Speaker 2: and go back to Philip Dubay. He is actually a
29:12
Speaker 2: veteran trial lawyer. He's a defense attorney, and he has
29:16
Speaker 2: been with the La County Public Defender's Office. What does
29:18
Speaker 2: that mean? They're on trial all the time, just like
29:22
Speaker 2: assistant district attorneys. There are thousands of cases to be handled,
29:26
Speaker 2: and you've got to go to trial or else you
29:29
Speaker 2: get fired. Very simply put, Philip Dubay. This guy may
29:34
Speaker 2: have been in the movie MAYLEEU. He's been around screenwriters,
29:38
Speaker 2: he's been around stars, He's been around plenty of who
29:41
Speaker 2: Done It movies. But do you really think that he
29:45
Speaker 2: thought too he's only alleged to communities crimes. But would
29:50
Speaker 2: he have thought so deeply to think, Oh, let me
29:53
Speaker 2: turn my phone off before I get rid of the
29:56
Speaker 2: murder weapon, let me put it on airplane mode. I
30:00
Speaker 2: don't think so. Remember one of our last suspects that
30:04
Speaker 2: put the phone on airplay mode. Oh yes, that would
30:08
Speaker 2: be very morphew whose phone went on airplane mode around
30:14
Speaker 2: the time his wife was killed or went missing. So,
30:19
Speaker 2: Philip Dubay, do you really think he thought that deeply
30:23
Speaker 2: when he got rid of the weapon.
30:25
Speaker 10: No, and I'll tell you why. I can tell by
30:28
Speaker 10: the charges. The prosecution is not alleging that this was
30:31
Speaker 10: a planned, premeditated murder. The only reason why he's rising
30:35
Speaker 10: to the level of it being a special circumstance is
30:38
Speaker 10: because there were multiple victims. They're not even alleging that
30:42
Speaker 10: he did it for a financial gain, which certainly is
30:45
Speaker 10: the classic motive, particularly in the Hollywood. So what you
30:49
Speaker 10: really have here is somebody who is out of his mind,
30:52
Speaker 10: again likely due to psychosis, drugs, or maybe even an
30:56
Speaker 10: untreated personality disorder, who flew off the handle in a
31:00
Speaker 10: fit of rage for whatever reason and fled while still
31:04
Speaker 10: in that either drug induce psychosis or some type of
31:09
Speaker 10: mental health crisis. Does it excuse the behavior?
31:12
Speaker 2: Okay, you know what, Sidney Sumner, that was all my
31:15
Speaker 2: fault because you never on the stand anyway, ask a
31:19
Speaker 2: witness a question that you don't already know the answer to.
31:22
Speaker 2: So I asked him Devey about the weapon and where
31:26
Speaker 2: it would have been discarded, and was the cell phone
31:29
Speaker 2: turned on or off at the time the weapon was discarded?
31:32
Speaker 2: And he goes back to his pretend drug psychosis theory.
31:35
Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner, let's get some facts joining me. Sidney Sumner,
31:38
Speaker 2: Lomaquila Brandley, Daily Mail, Sidney Sumner, Crime Stories, investigative reporter.
31:43
Speaker 2: What exactly are the charges against Nick Reiner? We just
31:49
Speaker 2: heard the district attorney speaking, what are the charges?
31:52
Speaker 15: Well, Nick Reiner is charged with two counts of murder
31:57
Speaker 15: with the special circumstances of multiple murders because he killed
32:01
Speaker 15: two people at the same time and that special circumstance
32:04
Speaker 15: of using a deadly weapon.
32:07
Speaker 2: Sydney, Aren't those murder charges first degree murder? Isn't that true?
32:14
Speaker 15: You're right, Nancy. They are first degree murder.
32:17
Speaker 2: And in this jurisdiction of California, murder one is murder
32:24
Speaker 2: with malice a forethought. That's what murder one is in California, Sydney, exactly.
32:32
Speaker 15: So there is some assumption that this was premeditated in
32:36
Speaker 15: some degree.
32:37
Speaker 2: So when we hear Philip Dubay state that this is
32:41
Speaker 2: not uh, these are not charges that include intent. That's
32:48
Speaker 2: diametrically opposed to what the charges actually are. The charge
32:52
Speaker 2: is murder one. Again out on a limb debay. Under
32:57
Speaker 2: the law, there is no specific time required to prove
33:02
Speaker 2: malice of warthought, or as we call it, premeditation. Premeditation
33:06
Speaker 2: to commit an act can be formed in the blink
33:08
Speaker 2: of an eye, the twinkling of the moment. Isn't that true? Debay?
33:13
Speaker 10: Yes, it is.
33:16
Speaker 2: Okay. So when you say the charges do not include intent,
33:20
Speaker 2: that's actually not correct. This is a murder one charge,
33:24
Speaker 2: isn't it.
33:25
Speaker 10: Yes, No, I didn't say that it was not intentional.
33:28
Speaker 10: What I'm saying is it wasn't planned in pre media
33:30
Speaker 10: you did.
33:31
Speaker 2: Didn't he say that? Control room? Didn't he just say that?
33:35
Speaker 2: They're saying, yes, you did, just say that.
33:38
Speaker 10: Well, then I retract.
33:39
Speaker 4: We've got it on tape.
33:40
Speaker 2: Do I have to play it back for you? For
33:41
Speaker 2: Pete's saint, like the gas station medio.
33:44
Speaker 10: Is absolutely an intentional act, but it was not planned
33:47
Speaker 10: and premeditated. In other words, it was for the moment.
33:50
Speaker 10: There's a difference.
33:51
Speaker 2: Murder one is premeditated murder. I feel like I'm screaming
33:56
Speaker 2: at a lamppost. Yes it is murder one is with
34:01
Speaker 2: malice a forethought.
34:03
Speaker 10: Malice of four thoughts standing alone does not necessarily mean premeditated.
34:07
Speaker 10: It's a separate element.
34:09
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, okay, what do you think MALICEA four
34:12
Speaker 2: thought is? Because I'm looking at black Slaw dictionary right now,
34:15
Speaker 2: go ahead. I can't wait to hear this. What do
34:16
Speaker 2: you think malice?
34:17
Speaker 10: The fourth thought is Malisa. Four thought is intentional killing.
34:22
Speaker 10: That's the bottom line.
34:23
Speaker 1: Either yes, that's right, in two.
34:27
Speaker 4: It is.
34:28
Speaker 10: However, yes, that's right.
34:30
Speaker 2: It's intentional killing. You form intent, you have a.
34:35
Speaker 10: Plan, not necessarily absolutely not.
34:43
Speaker 2: I'm wasting very valuable time arguing with you about what
34:48
Speaker 2: you just admitted these charges and correct me if I'm wrong.
34:51
Speaker 2: Killer Brantley joining us from dallymail dot com on this
34:55
Speaker 2: from the very very beginning, Kila Brandtley, he nick is
35:00
Speaker 2: charged with premeditated malice murder. That is what first degree
35:06
Speaker 2: murder is. He is also charged with felony murder. That's
35:11
Speaker 2: an alternative count, which means you don't have intent. The
35:16
Speaker 2: state doesn't have to prove you had intent, but a
35:21
Speaker 2: death occurred very simply during the commission of a felony.
35:26
Speaker 2: In this case, that felony would clearly be aggravated assault
35:29
Speaker 2: with a knife. You don't have to have intent to
35:32
Speaker 2: prove felony murder, just that a death occurred during the
35:35
Speaker 2: commission of a felony and a sentence for felony murder
35:40
Speaker 2: can be life without parole or death penalty. Again, tell
35:45
Speaker 2: me the charge is, Kiala Brantley.
35:49
Speaker 8: It's two first degree murder charges.
35:51
Speaker 9: There's the special circumstance and the special weapon charge right there.
35:56
Speaker 9: And like you said, either life in prison without the
35:59
Speaker 9: possibility of parole or the death penalty.
36:02
Speaker 6: Nick Reiner will be then brought to court. He is
36:05
Speaker 6: going through medical clearance, something that everybody who goes who
36:09
Speaker 6: gets arrested and gets held in the Los Angeles County
36:12
Speaker 6: Sheriff's Department jail goes through. Once he is medically cleared,
36:16
Speaker 6: he will be brought to court to be arraigned on
36:18
Speaker 6: these charges. At that point he will enter a plea
36:22
Speaker 6: of guilty or not guilty.
36:24
Speaker 2: Kila Brantley joining us dallymail dot com. Why was he
36:28
Speaker 2: a no show in court?
36:29
Speaker 9: According to Reiner's lawyer, Alan Jackson, he wasn't medically cleared
36:33
Speaker 9: to appear in court. Now, we don't know exactly what
36:36
Speaker 9: that means, but as you heard, there. That's something that's
36:39
Speaker 9: very standard. Everyone needs to get medically cleared. Now, this
36:42
Speaker 9: could be a psych evaluation, it could be a regular
36:46
Speaker 9: medical evaluation.
36:47
Speaker 8: We're still finding that out.
36:49
Speaker 2: It could be him refusing to put his clothes on.
36:51
Speaker 2: It could be him clinging to his bunk and refusing
36:55
Speaker 2: to go. We don't know what it is, Debay, what
36:58
Speaker 2: is the reason that he was not quote medically cleared?
37:02
Speaker 2: Don't make something up? Okay, he missed court.
37:07
Speaker 10: Why I'm telling you. When he got booked, they brought
37:10
Speaker 10: him to the Twin Towers Correctional Facility and they put
37:14
Speaker 10: him in a medical unit. My hunch is, and it's
37:17
Speaker 10: just based on my years of doing this stuff, that
37:19
Speaker 10: when they arrested him, they felt he was a danger
37:21
Speaker 10: to himself or to others still, so they put him
37:24
Speaker 10: under what's my guess is they put him under what's
37:27
Speaker 10: called a fifty one to fifty status, where it's basically
37:30
Speaker 10: an involuntary hole for a minimum of seventy two hours
37:34
Speaker 10: unlessen until he is cleared by a doctor, and that
37:37
Speaker 10: includes going to court. If he is still psychotic, he
37:40
Speaker 10: cannot be brought to court. So my hunch is that
37:43
Speaker 10: they needed to medicate him to therapeutic levels at least
37:47
Speaker 10: in the short term, so he could be brought to
37:49
Speaker 10: court for the arraignment. If they need to extend the hold,
37:52
Speaker 10: they can do it. I believe up to two weeks.
37:55
Speaker 10: Anything beyond that they have to go into court, the
37:57
Speaker 10: Mental Health Court for an ordering the involuntary hold pending arraignment.
38:03
Speaker 2: Jaquela Brantley, have you heard anything at all about him
38:07
Speaker 2: being in psychosis suicide watch? What do you know if
38:12
Speaker 2: anything about that?
38:14
Speaker 9: Not yet, we haven't heard anything about his current status.
38:16
Speaker 9: But what we have found out from family friends of
38:19
Speaker 9: the Rhiners, people who knew him his entire life, is
38:23
Speaker 9: that from an early age he appeared to be a
38:25
Speaker 9: difficult child through tantrums. One of the sources is quoted
38:30
Speaker 9: as saying he had anger in his eyes and at
38:32
Speaker 9: some point his father, Rob Reiner, would have to restrain
38:35
Speaker 9: him during these tantrums, and that those tantrums really progressed
38:39
Speaker 9: into adulthood.
38:41
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, Just because Nick Reiner has been booked
38:44
Speaker 2: into Twin Towers, that means nothing to me. Other people,
38:49
Speaker 2: other celebrities have been there. Cosby Bill Cosby, OJ Simpson,
38:55
Speaker 2: al Capone, Ted Bundy, Birdman of Alcatraz, Bernie Madoff, who
39:01
Speaker 2: worked the world's largest Ponzi scheme. He certainly wasn't crazy.
39:06
Speaker 2: He was brilliant, evil, but brilliant, and many many others
39:11
Speaker 2: that how Debey is extrapolating because he went to Twin
39:14
Speaker 2: Towers must mean he's on a psychiatric hold. That doesn't
39:19
Speaker 2: make sense. What do you think is happening, Doctor Bethany?
39:23
Speaker 7: Another tantrum, another tantrum out of an abundance of caution.
39:27
Speaker 7: They're going to make sure he doesn't want to harm
39:29
Speaker 7: himself or other people, but he's not a risk there.
39:32
Speaker 7: What I'm going to say is when you diagnose people,
39:35
Speaker 7: you can diagnose them on five axes. Access one is
39:39
Speaker 7: mental disorders. Access to is personality disorders. They're treating him
39:44
Speaker 7: like he has a mental disorder, but Nancy, this is
39:47
Speaker 7: personality driven. He had tantrums from the time he was
39:51
Speaker 7: very little. According to one report, when he was eleven
39:55
Speaker 7: years old, he had such a huge tantrum that his
40:00
Speaker 7: father had to put him in a big bear hug
40:03
Speaker 7: and hold him to help him regulate down into a
40:08
Speaker 7: normal state. Could it be that.
40:11
Speaker 2: Nick Bethany is Bethany? Can I tell you something, please
40:15
Speaker 2: before you say one more word before we hear any
40:19
Speaker 2: more made up theories from Philip Dbay, and he wins
40:22
Speaker 2: a lot of cases on arguments just like this. By
40:24
Speaker 2: the way, Paris Hilton, who has since become quite the
40:29
Speaker 2: hero on various fronts and now is a married mom.
40:33
Speaker 2: Paris Hilton was put in the Twin Towers after violating
40:38
Speaker 2: probation from a dui. She was put there because she
40:42
Speaker 2: was quote claustrophobic. All right, So all of Dubay spinning
40:48
Speaker 2: out his theories that's not supported by the facts we
40:53
Speaker 2: know tonight. He just happened to be booked into Twin Towers.
40:56
Speaker 2: It's in that jurisdiction, so that really means nothing to
41:00
Speaker 2: me probatively at this juncture. But I do know he's
41:05
Speaker 2: hired a very high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson.
41:09
Speaker 1: We'll be back day to day.
41:10
Speaker 6: The bailiff has indicated that the Sheriff's department.
41:12
Speaker 4: Will take it on a day by.
41:14
Speaker 6: Day basis and so hopefully will be food tomorrow.
41:17
Speaker 2: Then you can get a pad from our friends at
41:19
Speaker 2: Fox News Digital, Sidney Sumner. Who is paying for him?
41:25
Speaker 15: That is the million dollar question. I don't think his
41:29
Speaker 15: siblings are footing the bill, and I don't know what
41:32
Speaker 15: kind of funds he has access to that don't belong
41:34
Speaker 15: to his parents. So it's very unclear where Alan Jackson
41:38
Speaker 15: is going to get his paycheck from.
41:41
Speaker 2: Two special guests joining us now Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned
41:45
Speaker 2: chief medical examiner out of Terrant County, that's Fort Worth.
41:48
Speaker 2: He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of
41:51
Speaker 2: Medicine at TCU, and he's the star of a hit
41:54
Speaker 2: view podcast, Mayhem and the Morgue. But don't be filled
41:58
Speaker 2: by his joviality on his podcast. He has conducted thousands
42:03
Speaker 2: and thousands of autopsies. Dodger Kendle Crowns, thank you for
42:07
Speaker 2: being with us. Dodgor Crowns, there is a big difference
42:11
Speaker 2: in stab wounds and the slicing of his parents' throats.
42:17
Speaker 2: What would the stab wounds to the body, not the
42:21
Speaker 2: slicing of the throats indicate to you?
42:25
Speaker 11: So stab wound is a wound that is actually longer
42:29
Speaker 11: longer than it or the wound itself shorter than it
42:32
Speaker 11: is deep. So as the knife enters into the skin,
42:36
Speaker 11: it leaves a wound that is very small. But the
42:39
Speaker 11: actual wound course is very deep. The wounds they're describing
42:43
Speaker 11: on the rhiners is a slashing wound or in sized
42:47
Speaker 11: wound that is longer than it is deep. So it's
42:50
Speaker 11: kind of a shallow wound that hits multiple organs or
42:54
Speaker 11: multiple vessels, but doesn't go very deep into the tissues.
42:58
Speaker 2: Well, let me understand something, doctor kingdal Crowns. Even though
43:03
Speaker 2: the slicing mess you just made doesn't have to be deep,
43:08
Speaker 2: in fact, it can be quite shallow. That would likely
43:11
Speaker 2: be the mortal wound. And why.
43:16
Speaker 4: So?
43:16
Speaker 11: The vessels are the structures in your neck, prodded artery,
43:20
Speaker 11: jugular vein, your trachea. They're all very close to the surface,
43:24
Speaker 11: like millimeters or less than a quarter inch below your skin.
43:29
Speaker 11: You have these vital structures. You hit the croted archery,
43:32
Speaker 11: it's going to start spurting blood out, and it's going
43:35
Speaker 11: to be lots of blood coming out in a very
43:37
Speaker 11: short period of time. You'll be dead in minutes. If
43:40
Speaker 11: you just hit the jugular vein, it'll start oozing heavily,
43:43
Speaker 11: and again you'll be dead in minutes. You cut the
43:46
Speaker 11: cut the trachia, you're going to have trouble breathing and
43:50
Speaker 11: when you cut the trachia, you'll also cut blood vessels.
43:52
Speaker 11: You'll get blood into your trachea. So when you're dying,
43:55
Speaker 11: you're sucking in blood and you're basically drowning in your
43:58
Speaker 11: own blood as you're bleeding to death.
44:00
Speaker 2: Doctor Kennel Crowns, we know that when their daughter Roamy
44:03
Speaker 2: arrived and called authorities. The fire department arrived and they
44:09
Speaker 2: stated that the writers were already in full rigor. That
44:15
Speaker 2: tells me at approximate time of death.
44:17
Speaker 11: Could you explain so Rigor mortis is the stiffening of
44:21
Speaker 11: the joints that occurs after you die. And what happens
44:24
Speaker 11: is is your muscles continue to use these the things
44:30
Speaker 11: they use for metabolism even after you die, and when
44:32
Speaker 11: they run out of these substances, they go into full contraction.
44:36
Speaker 11: And this can start occurring in about a half hour
44:39
Speaker 11: to an hour after death and gets to a maximum
44:43
Speaker 11: about twelve hours. So it starts in the small muscles
44:45
Speaker 11: first and then goes to the larger muscles throughout your body.
44:49
Speaker 11: So if you see full rigor, it could be about
44:52
Speaker 11: twelve hours, but it can be affected by activity, drug use,
44:56
Speaker 11: how much blood loss. You've had a number of other
44:59
Speaker 11: factors how warm it is in the house, So using
45:02
Speaker 11: it as an exact time frame for the post wornum
45:05
Speaker 11: interval is difficult.
45:14
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
45:20
Speaker 2: Nick Ryner keeping a serious face? Is Nick Ryner keeping
45:26
Speaker 2: a serious face looking downward? As other spoken court, The
45:31
Speaker 2: lawyer did all the talking, only briefly speaking to the
45:35
Speaker 2: public defender. Before the hearing, he was asked if he
45:39
Speaker 2: wanted to waive his right to a speedy trial. Judge
45:42
Speaker 2: responded with Rhiner responded very clearly, yes, what does that mean?
45:51
Speaker 2: That means the defense wants this whole thing to blow over,
45:53
Speaker 2: so by the time it goes to trial, everybody's forgotten
45:56
Speaker 2: the shot of Rob and Michelle Reiner's murders want is
46:00
Speaker 2: in the rigor breaks and their the deceased limbs become
46:06
Speaker 2: limber again.
46:08
Speaker 11: Yes, after the twelve hour interval, After the twelve hour
46:13
Speaker 11: interval of its setting up, you'll stay in full rigor
46:16
Speaker 11: for about ten to twelve hours, and after that it
46:19
Speaker 11: starts to subside and disappears over another twelve hours unless
46:24
Speaker 11: someone moves it and breaks the rigor up manually, and
46:28
Speaker 11: then it goes away completely. So you have about a
46:30
Speaker 11: twenty four hour window of full rigor before it disappears.
46:34
Speaker 2: Okay? Is it twelve hours or twenty four hours?
46:37
Speaker 11: So twelve hours is set up ten to twelve hours
46:40
Speaker 11: after it sets up where it stays in place, and
46:43
Speaker 11: then after that it begins to subside over another twelve.
46:46
Speaker 2: Hours, okay, Dodger Kendall Crowns. What type of defensive wounds
46:52
Speaker 2: would you have expected to be found on the shell
46:55
Speaker 2: and Rob Reiner's bodies. We've heard nothing about defensive wounds
47:00
Speaker 2: such as blocking with the hands, the arms, even curling
47:03
Speaker 2: up in a fetal position and getting defensive wounds on
47:06
Speaker 2: the knees or the legs. I've heard nothing about that.
47:08
Speaker 2: I've only heard about stabs we believe to the torso.
47:14
Speaker 11: So since they were in bed and may have been
47:16
Speaker 11: in sleep, they could have not even seen this coming
47:19
Speaker 11: and not had an opportunity to react. Since there's two individuals,
47:23
Speaker 11: at least one individual probably was awoken by the other
47:26
Speaker 11: individual being killed and may have had a chance to
47:29
Speaker 11: defend themselves. They usually defensive wounds is what you see
47:33
Speaker 11: as the individual trying to grab the knife and trying
47:35
Speaker 11: not to be stabbed, and you'll see slices or in
47:38
Speaker 11: sized wounds across the fingers, across the palm of the hand.
47:42
Speaker 11: And then you'll see also in size wounds or stab
47:45
Speaker 11: wounds of the forearms as they're trying to block the
47:48
Speaker 11: block the knife of themselves. And again, like you said,
47:52
Speaker 11: you may pull up your legs even and you'll see
47:55
Speaker 11: stab wounds or in size wounds on the legs and feet.
47:57
Speaker 16: Do we able just forget the Rob Runner was on
48:00
Speaker 16: this list?
48:01
Speaker 2: Or what now he's dead? What the zany conspiracy theories
48:06
Speaker 2: have already started? Sidney Summer, a Crime Stories investigative reporter,
48:10
Speaker 2: I don't recall Rob Reiner's name being on the Epstein list,
48:13
Speaker 2: by the way, that's from at Hunter Montross on TikTok.
48:16
Speaker 15: Said, well, the list that that user is standing in
48:20
Speaker 15: front of is not real. That is a faith list
48:24
Speaker 15: that has been circulating on social media, and Rob Reiner's
48:27
Speaker 15: name is on that fake list and circled. But there's
48:31
Speaker 15: no actual evidence supporting that he had any ties to
48:34
Speaker 15: Jeffrey Epstein.
48:35
Speaker 2: So sorry, Hunter, your zany conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.
48:40
Speaker 2: Rob Reiner was not on the Epstein list for Pete's sake,
48:43
Speaker 2: but there's no lack of theories. Maybe Philip Dubay can
48:47
Speaker 2: use these as the defense. Listen.
48:49
Speaker 17: Rob had been working on a series called The Spy
48:51
Speaker 17: and the Asset. The series was going to be about
48:54
Speaker 17: Putin and Donald Trump, their upbringings, different ways they intersected,
48:58
Speaker 17: and in Rob's words, what happens to democracy as a
49:02
Speaker 17: result of this convergence, that relationship of Trump and Putin
49:05
Speaker 17: being explored and extrapolated and navigated is going to bring
49:10
Speaker 17: a whole lot of corruption up to the surface.
49:11
Speaker 2: Right that From at Studio eight on TikTok to Scott
49:16
Speaker 2: Iiker joining us, who was a founding member of the
49:19
Speaker 2: FBI Cellular Analysis Survey Team. Scott, I think I'd rather
49:25
Speaker 2: rely not on zany conspiracy theories. I will leave that
49:28
Speaker 2: to our veterman trial lawyer, Phillip Dbay. Scott, I'd rather
49:33
Speaker 2: deal with hard facts. How difficult is it going to
49:37
Speaker 2: be for me to trace Nick Reiner's cell phone, where
49:43
Speaker 2: he went that night, any credit card or atm use
49:49
Speaker 2: and what was it for? I need to track not
49:53
Speaker 2: only his phone, but where there was a delay. Even
49:56
Speaker 2: in the Alex Murdog case where Murdoch murdered his wife
50:01
Speaker 2: Maggie and son Paul as he left the scene. I
50:04
Speaker 2: got from his well. Prosecutor Waters got from his nav
50:08
Speaker 2: system where he slowed down, and the nav system showed
50:12
Speaker 2: Scott Iiker him lowering the passenger side window electronically. That's
50:18
Speaker 2: where he threw out Maggie's cell phone. Then he let
50:22
Speaker 2: the window up, sped up and went and hit out
50:25
Speaker 2: at his mother's house, who had dementia and really could
50:28
Speaker 2: not say what time he got there. That said, that's
50:32
Speaker 2: what I'm looking for. You know, this guy didn't think
50:35
Speaker 2: deeply enough to turn his phone on airplane mode or
50:38
Speaker 2: turn it off when he discarded of the knife. So
50:41
Speaker 2: how am I going to find the knife?
50:46
Speaker 14: It sure does look like a crime of passion in
50:51
Speaker 14: those instances. A lot of times the suspects do not
50:54
Speaker 14: turn off their phones, don't think ahead like that. Once
50:58
Speaker 14: you get the identified, identifying information about the suspect phone records,
51:06
Speaker 14: vehicle records, credit cards. Is really interesting how you can
51:11
Speaker 14: put a timeline together and kind of piece together all
51:15
Speaker 14: the things that happened before and after the crime.
51:18
Speaker 2: Hey, Scott Iiker, you and I have both marveled at
51:21
Speaker 2: the video montage put together by l E law enforcement
51:26
Speaker 2: in the Photusdulo's case. They got him every which way
51:30
Speaker 2: but loose on video from ring doorbell cams to stop
51:35
Speaker 2: like cam. This is after his wife, Jennifer, the mother
51:38
Speaker 2: of his five children, was murdered. I'm thinking that this
51:43
Speaker 2: neighborhood is blanketed in ring doorbell and stop like cam,
51:48
Speaker 2: you name it. I bet they can follow him almost
51:51
Speaker 2: everywhere he went. And if he took an uber or
51:54
Speaker 2: share a right share, there may be video in there
51:58
Speaker 2: that can help me track him and find the knife.
52:02
Speaker 2: That said, here's another zany theory. Listen up do bay.
52:06
Speaker 17: Nick Reiner, who is allegedly the murderer in this case,
52:08
Speaker 17: the son of Robin Michelle, who killed both of his parents, allegedly,
52:12
Speaker 17: his name did not appear on Google trends really at all.
52:15
Speaker 17: Here's it in the United States, the United States nick Reiner,
52:19
Speaker 17: nothing nothing.
52:20
Speaker 16: This is showing starting yesterday fourteenth, So that was the
52:25
Speaker 16: United States.
52:25
Speaker 17: This is what happens when you look up the exact
52:27
Speaker 17: same query and only changed the geolocation to be tel
52:30
Speaker 17: Aviv instead of the United States.
52:32
Speaker 16: Nick Reiner tel Aviv nothing nothing, nothing.
52:35
Speaker 17: Oh, look at that two bumps a couple months ago
52:40
Speaker 17: last month. Interesting, All of a sudden.
52:43
Speaker 2: Bumps I can from s Studio A eight on TikTok
52:48
Speaker 2: so dobay. I guess she's arguing you might want to
52:50
Speaker 2: take notes to put this in with your drugs, like
52:53
Speaker 2: hoastist theory that he what is actually a spy she's
52:57
Speaker 2: mentioning tel Aviv. I don't know what that is to
53:00
Speaker 2: do it. Maybe he's an avatar, maybe he's a ghost,
53:02
Speaker 2: Maybe he doesn't even exist. Then who's that sitting in
53:06
Speaker 2: the twin towers?
53:08
Speaker 10: I gotta tell you, I think it's genius because if
53:10
Speaker 10: we're all honest, it forms the basis of the not
53:12
Speaker 10: guilty by reason of insanity defense. If he truly thinks
53:16
Speaker 10: that he's going to be beamed up by the Starship
53:18
Speaker 10: Enterprise and he's got all kinds of wild imagining, nobody
53:22
Speaker 10: said that. You said that, Well what else would he?
53:24
Speaker 2: He just didn't have a Google profile, he had no
53:26
Speaker 2: social media profile. The fact that, and now you're claiming
53:31
Speaker 2: you've got another psychosis defense because he's not a social media.
53:35
Speaker 10: No, not because of that.
53:36
Speaker 2: Okay, good, I'm happy you said that. I couldn't be
53:40
Speaker 2: more happy. I hope you used that at trial, hey,
53:43
Speaker 2: just to throw this into your crazy pot to Steve Listen.
53:47
Speaker 17: Donald Trump got on True Social and said this, which
53:50
Speaker 17: is horrific and tonally and timeline wise to me, does
53:55
Speaker 17: seem like a confession. He's listed and motive rate that
54:00
Speaker 17: means doesn't even need to be explained. And the funny
54:03
Speaker 17: thing is he got on camera today and doubled down
54:07
Speaker 17: on it again, specifically the part with Russia. He was like,
54:10
Speaker 17: he's trying to look into this and dig all this
54:12
Speaker 17: stuff up, and as you know, it's always the opposite
54:14
Speaker 17: where like there's nothing weird there.
54:16
Speaker 16: It's just so blatantly obvious.
54:20
Speaker 2: At Studio eight on TikTok So, Dr Bethany Marshall, I
54:26
Speaker 2: don't think that's going to help Alan Jackson at this
54:28
Speaker 2: juncture that Trump confess to a motive.
54:34
Speaker 7: No, it is not. I mean, conspiracy theorists take something
54:39
Speaker 7: that is sort of benign. I hate to call the
54:42
Speaker 7: mestic commicide benign, but it does happen, and they try
54:46
Speaker 7: to spin a whole theory out of it, to try
54:49
Speaker 7: to make it a part of a predictable universe.
54:51
Speaker 15: But it's not.
54:52
Speaker 7: You know, people love to form patterns, and so conspiracy
54:57
Speaker 7: theorists will try to form a pattern out of an
55:00
Speaker 7: outlier like domestic homicide. And that's all this is that
55:04
Speaker 7: they're just trying to form a pattern.
55:06
Speaker 2: Nancy, the sitting judge has handed the case over to
55:09
Speaker 2: a new long term a judge. Because the new long
55:15
Speaker 2: term judge will oversee proceedings in the near future and
55:19
Speaker 2: very likely the actual trial, we expect Nick Reiner's mental
55:26
Speaker 2: fitness to be the center of the initial proceedings. Will
55:31
Speaker 2: that be the ultimate defense or will it just be
55:34
Speaker 2: a way to delay the case? For instance, if he
55:39
Speaker 2: claims incompetence, there has to bear hearing after hearing until
55:43
Speaker 2: he is treated and deemed competent to aid his lawyers
55:47
Speaker 2: at trial. Then at trial the defense could be insanity
55:51
Speaker 2: at the time of the incident, or some other dude
55:54
Speaker 2: did it. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Gray signing
55:59
Speaker 2: up goodbye friend.