Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Mom Rage | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 4 Episode 7

Transcript

Mom Rage | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 4 Episode 7 · Motherhood Uncut

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Motherhood Uncut.
0:01
SPEAKER_02: We are so glad that you're here.
0:03
SPEAKER_02: Deb Rubin and I, Kate Kripke, bring to this podcast all of those conversations that are actually kind of hard to have around motherhood.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: We will be talking about things that make you laugh, that probably make you cry in the best of ways, that move you, that inspire you, that teach you new things.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: And we are really committed to this podcast because we really believe that nobody should be mothering alone.
0:28
SPEAKER_02: So come jump in with us, pour yourself a glass of wine, cup of tea, put on your running shoes, turn on the audio in your car.
0:36
SPEAKER_02: Come be with us for a bit.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: We can't wait to mother with you.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Last week, Kate and I talked with Caitlin Murray, who is just amazing.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't listened to that episode yet, you really should.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: But in that episode, she talks about mom rage, and it really got us thinking about what an important topic this is.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: So this week, Kate and I dive into mom rage, the difference between anger and rage, ways to recognize when it's problematic and when it's normal, and ways to manage it.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoy this conversation.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: As always, thanks for listening, and I hope you have a great day.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: Hey listeners, it's Kate.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: I am so excited to tell you about my new 12-week program called the Calm Connection System.
1:32
SPEAKER_02: This program is designed for you if you're a high-achieving woman and you're struggling with levels of worry, guilt, and overwhelm that are causing you distress and that are getting in your way of enjoying both mothering and having the kind of attachment and relationship with your child that you've always hoped for.
1:46
SPEAKER_02: You may or may not feel that you're suffering with clinical levels of depression or anxiety, but you do know that you don't feel the way you want to feel and that you are not mothering the way you want to mother, and you know that something needs to change.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: I'm bringing my 20 years as the clinician and maternal and child mental health expert to this program.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: It's designed to help you uncover the blind spots that are getting in your way, learn new ways of changing negative thought patterns, allowing for and moving through hard emotions, tending to your nervous system on the spot so that you can stay steady in the hardest of moments, access self-compassion and more, all while you form a lifelong secure attachment with your child, which I'm also going to show you how to do.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: And what makes this program one of a kind is that I've created it so that you have daily, yes, daily support around implementation and habit changing so that your growth and change is sustainable over time.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: If you're ready to increase your resilience to stress and find mental health and wellness on behalf of your kids, because remember, we know that maternal and child mental health are intimately connected.
2:50
SPEAKER_02: And you understand that the resources that you put towards this now, such as money, time, and energy, will give you back these same resources exponentially later, then this program's for you.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: Schedule a link or schedule a time to book a free call with me at the link in the show notes.
3:06
SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to tell you more about this program and to help you see if you qualify.
3:10
SPEAKER_02: The time is now.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, this is Deb.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Happy holidays.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: I am so excited to let you know that I have now launched my 2024 workshops, and you can find those at my website at debruben.com or motherdaughterjourney.co.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of fun offerings, and I'm just so deeply committed to helping people build connection.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: So check my stuff out, see if any of it speaks to you.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: You can also sign up for my newsletter there to stay in the know and get fun tips and facts around parenting.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'd love to work with you.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: So check it out and have a great day.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Kate.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Deborah.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: Happy podcast day.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: Happy Podcast Day.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: What do you want to talk about today?
3:55
SPEAKER_00: We have no plan.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: I want to talk about rage.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: Say more.
4:03
SPEAKER_02: One of the things that came up in our podcast last week with um the amazing Caitlin Murray.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: If you folks, if you haven't watched that, listen to that podcast with Caitlin Murray from Big Time Adulting, go back and listen.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: It was so good.
4:20
SPEAKER_02: She's so great.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: She's so great.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that came up in that conversation, which I know has come up in your work and my work, and also in your life and my life, is this idea of mom rage.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: Mom rage is so real.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of shame and fear around it.
4:41
SPEAKER_02: And so why don't we today break it down and talk about what it is when it is something to uh kind of get some support around or take seriously?
4:57
SPEAKER_02: Thank you when it's problematic and when it is just part of the life of being a mom, because I think that would help people to understand the difference and what what is rage as compared to irritability and anger, and what might lead to rage, and what the f F can we do?
5:16
SPEAKER_00: How would you differentiate rage from irritability and anger?
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I think they're a spectrum, right?
5:24
SPEAKER_02: So if I'm feeling irritable, if if I'm gonna I'm gonna describe what can lead to rage.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: If I'm feeling irritable and I'm denying my irritability, I'm like pushing it down, I'm distracting myself, I'm you know, maybe shaming and blaming myself for feeling irritable, that can turn into anger.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: To me, irritability is just annoying.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: It's like a mild, it's like an angstiness.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: Like I can feel irritable in my body.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, can't really sit still and like someone looks at me the wrong way and I take it personally.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: It's like that.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: It's like edgy.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
6:01
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: To me, anger is more focused on something specific.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm feeling anger towards my child for drawing on the wall, or I'm feeling angry at my husband for saying he was going to be home and being late, right?
6:20
SPEAKER_02: These things that can make me angry.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: And then I think rage is what happens when we haven't made space and time and held irritability and anger with compassion, and we stuff it and stuff it and stuff it.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: And snap.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: And snap.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: And snapping can be by ourselves or it can be in reaction or relationship to something around us.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: And I think, again, let's dive into this, but I think that's where we shift between rage being, you know, expressing rage as being a very healthy, normal part of moving emotion versus having rage be what happens when that deep hidden emotion around anger gets repressed and then comes out sideways and causes harm.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: That I think that's the the line.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I agree.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: I think rage is really normal and and women, you know, are socialized to not feel rage.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Well, can we can I reframe that a little bit?
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: I think anger is really normal.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: And I think rage is inevitable when we're not allowing ourselves to feel anger and to express it in a healthy way.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that I would say rage is normal.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: I actually want us to be careful about that.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it feels it feels sensitive.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: I think what I mean is that a lot of moms experience it.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: And and I think a lot of moms experience it when and not and they're not harming someone else in the process.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: I like I can I can tell you like five people this week that have told me they had to walk away from a situation and scream into a pillow and just have a tantrum.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: That feels like rage to me.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: And let's sort of differentiate that I think we're saying the same thing, but it's sort of like it's like if we are feeling anger that's stuffed down so much that it comes out as rage and we scream into a pillow or do a rage dance like Caitlin was talking about, or get on the phone with a friend and just like vent till the with smoke coming out of our ears, there's no problem with that.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: But that's anger that's turned to rage where healthy coping is being utilized.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: I think one of the things that can happen is that rage can be expressed in problematic ways.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
8:58
SPEAKER_02: So can anger.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: But I guess, and again, I'm just sort of thinking out loud here.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: So please feel free to correct me or to contradict what I'm saying.
9:06
SPEAKER_02: But I sort of feel like to me, like rage is seeing red.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: It's seeing red.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: And it's scary.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: It's scary.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: And it's scary for us, and it's scary for the people around us.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: It's not that it's inherently bad.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: So let's separate good versus bad.
9:23
SPEAKER_02: And it's not that it's rare to your point.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of moms feel mom rage.
9:29
SPEAKER_02: But I do think it's useful in this conversation for us to break it down with compassion, not shame and judgment.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: We're not going to look at rage as, oh my God, there's this horrible thing if you're feeling mom rage and you're all alone.
9:40
SPEAKER_02: No, first of all, it's not inherently horrible, and you're certainly not alone.
9:46
SPEAKER_02: But it's caused by something.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: If I'm feeling rage if someone cuts me off in in uh at a stoplight, that's a big reaction to being cut off.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: If I'm feeling rage because my kid keeps wanting to touch me, that's a big reaction to wanting to be touched.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: So so let's dig underneath it.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: Good call.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: So something you're saying that I think is part of the reason why people stuff their anger.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: And this could go in a whole tangent, but just follow me here for a sec, is I think there's still there's such a fear of being judged by other moms.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, so when your kid is like either being an asshole in the playground or or not looking someone in the eye when you introduce them to them in the grocery store, you know, and you feel embarrassed or the things that happen with mothering.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: And it and maybe you feel like you're being watched, and you probably are, because I think there's still this inherent judgment that can happen amongst moms, and then we tend to stuff it and like not really address the situation in the moment.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's really appropriate, sometimes it's not.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: It's just there's just no right and wrong here, and then that gets stuffed, and then yet another thing gets stuffed, and like then it's like I used to say, like, there's these like pebbles of frustration, and you keep putting a pebble in your pocket, and before you know it, you're just like weighed down with like rage, really.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: I think I would say anger.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: But my point is is that the the the idea that we still fear being judged by others around us is like a huge part of stuffing emotions.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: And I just want moms to like give each other grace over and over.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: That's just like my wish for the world.
11:43
SPEAKER_02: So to take it one step farther, because I would agree with you, I think that one of those emotions that we tend to stuff is women is anger.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: We're taught to not be angry.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: No, we're taught to express our feelings, but not be angry.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
11:59
SPEAKER_02: A lot of women I know, myself included, for a long time in my life.
12:03
SPEAKER_02: Anytime I people I'll speak for myself, anytime I was angry, I would cry.
12:07
SPEAKER_02: It would turn into sadness.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: I didn't know how to express anger from a place of like authority.
12:14
SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
12:15
SPEAKER_02: I would sort of cr crumble a little bit and feel some shame and blame and cry.
12:19
SPEAKER_02: But I say often, my gosh, I feel like you and I have talked about this and even with our girls, is that when we're scared, we get scary.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: So to me, rage, that manifestation of rage, it comes from a repressed fear.
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Right?
12:37
SPEAKER_02: And the question is what is causing that fear?
12:43
SPEAKER_02: So if you think about like Caitlin's example in our podcast last week was I'm just I'm I'm being t I'm overtouched, right?
12:53
SPEAKER_02: I think that was the example.
12:54
SPEAKER_02: Or one of us made that example, right?
12:56
SPEAKER_02: We're overtouched, and it's like finally you're like, just get the fuck off me, right?
12:59
SPEAKER_02: And you feel you're you right, or you may whether you say that or not, that's what you're thinking in your mind, right?
13:04
SPEAKER_02: Or you're or I have it, I mean, I this happens all the time in my work, right?
13:08
SPEAKER_02: There might be a mom who has this, um, so back to your thing about being judged, has this I desire this idea that to be a good mom, she has to breastfeed her child.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: So she's breastfeeding and breastfeeding and breastfeeding and really struggling and feeling like she has no space.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: And again, I'm not this is not a judgment on whether or not a a mother should or shouldn't breastfeed her child, of course, but just talking about this phenomenon and she ends up feeling really and ending up being so angry every time her child, who might now be old a little bit older, right?
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Maybe that child is a year or older and has his or her own sense of personhood.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: And every time that child comes to breastfeed, there's an anger which that mom then represses because she thinks she shouldn't feel angry.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: And then next thing she knows, she's, you know, taking off out of the house and screaming on a mountaintop.
14:00
SPEAKER_02: That's rage.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: So I think about all of those moments of repressed feeling, of repressed irritability or anger and not listening to that deep need that someone might have for space or time or their body or which of course comes from fear because if we don't have ourselves, how terrifying that is.
14:20
SPEAKER_02: I just went off in a tangent.
14:21
SPEAKER_02: But does that land?
14:22
SPEAKER_00: It totally lands.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: I think uh the word rage is is throwing me a little because it's like I want to give uh mom's permission to have the range of every emotion.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: And but I think that the difference is that that feeling of totally being out of control.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: And that I I know that feeling.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I recently said something r really mean to one of my daughters.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: I actually told a client this.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: She's like, You did you get mean?
15:00
SPEAKER_00: I was like, come on, please, if there's anything this podcast is about, is like we are right in it with you, everybody.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: And like, I think I called one of my kids like an entitled asshole.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: There you go, in that moment.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: And that was rage.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: That was actually not coming from a place of anger, because had I said it differently, in an anger place, I might say, like, hey, I'm feeling really frustrated by the way you're talking about gifting this holiday season.
15:30
SPEAKER_00: So rage is seeing red.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you said earlier, it's that out-of-control feeling, and anything that is extreme and out of control is often often leaves us with remorse.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: And then we can go into a cycle of shame.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, oh shit, I wish I had said that differently.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: And there's always room to repair.
15:54
SPEAKER_02: Right, although sh w I wish I had done that, said that differently is guilt, not shame.
15:59
SPEAKER_02: I think of sh I think of like shame is I am bad.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I am bad.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: I am a bad mom.
16:04
SPEAKER_02: And I think for us, this word rage, and I think it's important we name this here, like rage is a symptom of bipolar disorder, especially in motherhood.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm not, by the way, listeners, I'm not saying if you feel mom rage, you have bipolar disorder.
16:19
SPEAKER_02: That is not what I'm saying.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: Clarification.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: But I want to make sure like that quit that that symptom of going from zero to ten really quickly and feeling out of control with anger and and then acting in ways that one feels really badly about later.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: And I'm saying things like, you know, throwing a plate or um, you know, hitting hitting, yeah, aggressive behavior.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: Does that go in the category?
16:47
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's more like just that it the the sort of like that potential for harm, whether or not someone is actually causing harm or not.
16:56
SPEAKER_02: It's just that that is a symptom of untreated bipolar disorder.
17:03
SPEAKER_02: And so I think the word rage can be confusing for those of us who work in this field because there's mom rage like you're talking about right now, and that we were talking about with Caitlin Ling yesterday, which is just pent-up stored anger.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: And then there's rage as a symptom of a larger mental health challenge that needs a lot of support.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: Because if that tendency towards raging isn't really managed well and supported, one can cause harm.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: I like that you're naming this because for anyone listening, it's a good kind of scale to check yourself on, like how often is the rage happening, what's setting it off, you know, and and when do you actually need to get support on a deeper level around it.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, going back to what you said before about what's under it, and we talked about this, you know, fear of being judged or stuffing emotions.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: I always think it's really fascinating when I have a moment that feels really out of control to just backtrack like what got me here.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: And there's usually like three or four indicators that I was going in this direction where I could have caught myself.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Like what?
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, like indicators where I start getting body sensations of heat in my cheeks or my tummy starts hurting, or from I always know if I go into the pantry and start looking for chocolate, like that's a good indicator that I'm like avoiding discomfort by trying to find chocolate.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: And side note, I love chocolate and it's not always that dysfunctional.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: But I know that feeling of like it's distraction and desperation, yeah, and and avoidance.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and those are like those are where we get to be, these amazing detectives of ourselves with a gentle mind of like, huh, how could I have possibly caught that sooner and gone and laid down on the floor or laid on the earth, which is my favorite, and dumping the energy into Mother Earth, or where could I have had a glass of water?
19:06
SPEAKER_00: Or a dance party.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: And like, so I think that is actually where we keep continuing this journey of knowing and loving self because we start to really see the patterns within us.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: And what I think is really interesting is people probably if they paid attention to rage patterns or even anger patterns, there's probably times of the day that are really consistent.
19:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally, and has so much to do with our biochemistry, right?
19:40
SPEAKER_02: So back to the let me just say one more side note about the bipolar piece.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: I think the kind of rage that many people, when people say mom rage, when we're talking about this, is the kind of rage that we actually have our capacity to be aware of, right?
19:58
SPEAKER_02: We can reflect on it.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: We can be like, oh my gosh, I have to, I'm eating the chocolate, I have to go lie on the floor.
20:05
SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling I we can feel the heat in our cheeks.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: We can like feel it happen.
20:09
SPEAKER_02: And if we are practicing something at that point, we can put something into place in that moment to disperse the rage, like dance party or lie on the floor or go for a run around the block or like to disperse it.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: I think when we're talking about the biochemical symptom of rage in bipolar disorder or some other mental health disorder, I'm gonna speak to bipolar, it's almost uncontrollable.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:36
SPEAKER_02: It's so biochemical, right?
20:38
SPEAKER_02: And I think that again, just to help us all understand, like, what are we actually talking about?
20:43
SPEAKER_02: Because I want us to have the right language here, right?
20:46
SPEAKER_02: Is it is it that kind of rage where we just feel out of control?
20:51
SPEAKER_02: But if someone were to be sitting there with us and we were like, hey Deb, come run around the block, come run around the block with me.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Let's have a dance party.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: You could do that, and then 10 minutes later you would feel less ragey.
21:01
SPEAKER_02: Or is it rage that's like, even if I'm there saying that to you, you can't see me because you're seeing red?
21:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: And I actually think that's common.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: It is common.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: Very it is common.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: It's actually for anyone who's interested, I think one of the first times that women get diagnosed with bipolar disorder is after having a baby, after giving birth, because of the huge hormonal fluxes.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: And really, folks, I'm not just gonna say this, but we won't dive too deep into this clinical piece, but but folks who have a more mild form of bipolar can manage it without realizing they're managing it with sleep and nutrition and exercise.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: Because it's a bipo by biochemical disorder.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: And then you have a baby and all that shit goes out the window.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: But I also want to really clarify that even if you see red at times, that does not mean you have to be able to do that.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: No, none of this I don't want anyone at home to it.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: I just don't want people to get scared.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: Nope, not at not even remotely, but and not even remotely.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: So if you're in the back end getting terrified and wanting to call your therapist, feel your feet on the floor, have a dance party, take a breath.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, no, that's not the point of this at all.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: But I think the lane, like, what are we actually talking about here is what I think this conversation can be helpful for.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: And again, to your point, what causes it?
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Is it is it stuffed, repressed, unfelt feelings that are there?
22:23
SPEAKER_02: Is it anger that we've been feeling that we're not giving ourselves permission to feel?
22:27
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the number one thing.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about that.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: I think that going back to what I said earlier is that we as girls in like the most gendered, you know, looking at this very like gender specific, um have been socialized from the moment we're born to not feel anger.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's really po powerful actually.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: I think Lisa Damore talks about it in um her emotional lives of teens, that like when we go into just you know, two genders, boy and girl, in that language, that they're we're actually not that different.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: It's really just how we're socialized.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: And so what's interesting, this is interesting, actually, God, I'm repeating myself, that girls are tend tend to seem to be like more catty or more processy or talk bad about each other more, and that people think that's a girl thing.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: And actually, what Lisa would say is that it's not that they're meaner.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, it was based on this mean girl, you know, concept.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: It's not that girls are meaner, they're just external processors more, and so they're going to talk about their feelings more, or talk about a fight more than a boy, but the feelings are all there, they're similar.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: It's just how we're socialized to process our feelings.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: So where boys are socialized to process with anger or letting it out or you know, playing doing movement or something like that.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: Girls are encouraged to talk about it.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: So when you get angry, I'm just like scenario.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I'm out on the playground.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, my kids are small.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: My one kid is just doing things that are like out of control, and I'm embarrassed.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And the other kids are all playing lovely, and I'm seeing it through a distorted lens because I only see my kids' challenges in that moment.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: And you also haven't eaten since nine o'clock in the morning, and it's now three.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Good point.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And so there's the fear of being judged, like, how am I gonna discipline right now?
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's looking at me to like do the right thing, and let me remind all of us that every kid requires different versions of discipline because every kid has different personalities and there's not a one-size-fits-all.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: So instead, I freeze.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, Johnny, let we're gonna go home now, you know, and I just don't know what to do, and I'm trying to keep my like pleasant face because I don't want the other moms to think I'm out of control.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is such a common story.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: I get in the car, Johnny calms down, the music goes on, whatever, da-da-da.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Then my husband calls me and he says something super annoying, and I get irritated again.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Then Johnny doesn't want to go down for his nap, and then I fucking lose it.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: And it's like all that's the series of events, and it often really comes from how we're perceived.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: That's like so real.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: How we're perceived.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Say more about that.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, this idea how it started on the playground with the other moms.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's our fear of how we're perceived.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: And I just I know I'm I went there before and I'm kind of getting stuck there, but I'm hearing it a lot right now of how you know, whether it's adolescents and moms are judging other moms and other kids for making bad choices, and it's like, come on, like what we really need right now is to like A, have compassion for that mom, or and B, don't you don't know all you don't know everything.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: So don't start making judgments on situations that you don't know all the details.
26:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like it's I'm seeing where these two things, the the the being judged, the fear of being judged, and the stifled emotion of anger can so overlap, right?
26:17
SPEAKER_02: So just back to this breastfeeding example.
26:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:20
SPEAKER_02: I really don't want to breastfeed anymore.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Then don't breastfeed.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, right, but let me, I mean sorry.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm being a friend.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: You and I'm not breastfeeding, so let's get clear.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: But let but let but just back up, like if I'm re if I don't want to breastfeed anymore and I'm feeling really angry at my baby or child for continuing to want to breastfeed when I don't want to.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: That's and I'm afraid to acknowledge that anger to someone because I'm afraid I'm gonna be judged.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
26:56
SPEAKER_02: That's where this overlaps.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: So I don't talk about it.
26:59
SPEAKER_02: You're isolated.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm isolated, I'm feeling my feeling, I'm repressing my feeling in part because I have shame around feeling angry every time my baby wants to breastfeed, and I'm terrified that someone over there, if they ever heard me say this, is gonna think I'm a bad mom.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: And then to your point, that's that snap.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: That's that like the one last thing that happens.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: The the the the glass of water that spills, or the partner that says they can't help later when they plan to help, or the starts raining.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: It could be anything, totally, and then it all gets released at once.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: So you're we're talking on spectrums here.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: You're talking about the nursing mom, the mom of the adolescent.
27:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what about the moms out there with kids that are highly sensitive, kids that are really disruptive, kids that like lean towards anger, you know.
27:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many challenges in motherhood that are so out of our control that it doesn't surprise me that we are like masters at suppressing feelings.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Because the the the flip side is like, what are we, like loose cannons all the time?
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's really tricky too.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: But I I guess I wonder what it would be like if moms could just start committing to themselves to like meet other moms with curiosity and humor, and like when you see the kid flailing someone else's kid flailing on a the playground to go up to that mom and be like, I've been there.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: I think that's so important.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: It it's I mean, you know, you we get a little um repetitive.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: But we are but I want it no, I think this is great, but I want to say that the other thing is that like you know, to remember you think about those moms of kids who never who are neurodiverse or who have special needs or whatever that like mothering is hard enough when you don't have a kid whose needs go above and beyond what a you know what a child that you know fits within the quote unquote norm of behavior and development or whatever it is, right?
29:04
SPEAKER_02: So it's already hard enough, and then you add these other needs, and it's like, oh right, and mama, you can both be really angry at what's happening and still love your child.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: Heck yeah.
29:17
SPEAKER_02: And so it's that it's like the fear fear of saying I'm angry because I know that this isn't really my child's fault, so I'm not supposed to feel angry.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: That's one of those, that's one of those sort of it's like you do that enough time at times, and you're gonna end up raging at some point.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: So let's let's leave our listeners with maybe a little permission.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think for one, we actually as women, as mothers, as raising incredible humans in the world, need to have lots of permission for anger.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: And when there's room for anger, some and maybe we even have to carve it out.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Like, am I angry right now?
29:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, just like, do I need to do an angry dance?
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Do I need to do like an angry, you know, stomping my feet just to like invite it in so it's becomes more normalized in your daily flow so that it doesn't get repressed?
30:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: What do you think about that?
30:17
SPEAKER_02: I think it's great.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: Here's what I want to do.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: I want us to popcorn back and forth ideas of how to release anger/slash rage when we feel it, and we're just gonna like it's like we're playing tennis.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I like it.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: Okay, you go first.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: Scream.
30:32
SPEAKER_02: Shake your body as hard as you can, as fast as you can.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Lie down, dump it, dance.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Hit a pillow, take a cold shower.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: That's a good one.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Take a hot shower.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: Um look in the mirror and make the most crazy wild face you possibly can.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Breath of fire.
30:58
unknown: Breath of fire.
30:59
SPEAKER_02: Dog's breath.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: No, dog's breath.
31:03
unknown: Okay.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: Or lion's breath.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, listeners.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: I just had to really actually I feel like that lion's breath is that is a good one.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: Jumping jacks.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: How about watch a comedy show or like something very different?
31:22
SPEAKER_02: Like that's to turn it to find humor, to laugh.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: I have a good one.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is you have to prepare for this, but make a rage playlist and actually play the music that matches the emotion you're having.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make it worse.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: It actually feels like the outside is matching the inside.
31:45
SPEAKER_02: I think that's spot on.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, babe.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: What else?
31:50
SPEAKER_02: Set off some fireworks.
31:54
unknown: What the fuck?
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, Liz and do not do that.
32:00
SPEAKER_03: Maybe not when you're raging, but here's what I was thinking.
32:02
SPEAKER_03: It was like matching the outside to match the inside.
32:05
SPEAKER_03: Okay, scratch that.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: We live in a drought.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: No, we're not doing that.
32:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's illegal except if you're in Wyoming.
32:11
SPEAKER_03: No one lit any fires.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Okay, take that back.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Breathing.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Do we talk about extra?
32:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, breathing or any kind.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Actually, I think in times of anger and rage, it's less the slow, steady breath and more the line's breath or the dog's breath, that release of energy through the breath.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: And we didn't do an example of breath and breath of fire, but it's through the nose.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: It's really good, and you're pumping your belly.
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's a good one.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: Um, singing.
32:41
SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
32:42
SPEAKER_02: Do you want to sing for us, Kate?
32:45
SPEAKER_03: Oh God, sorry.
32:47
SPEAKER_03: You do not want me to sing for you.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: No, I I will I will agree with that.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: Okay, we can stop now, but the point is there are so many options, and we just have to get curious.
32:57
SPEAKER_02: But the point I think what you and I keep saying is anger that turns into rage is stored up energy.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: And can be harmful to others and really harmful to ourselves.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
33:09
SPEAKER_02: If it's not managed in a in one of these ways, if it's not released in one of these ways, which is harmless and serving, it can become harmful.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: We can say things we don't mean, we can hurt people with our words, with our bodies, with our energy, we can we can hurt ourselves.
33:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it can if we don't take care of ourselves and manage it, it can be problematic.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: So it's not the it that's a problem.
33:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the rage isn't the problem.
33:34
SPEAKER_02: Whether or not we're managing it well can become problematic.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be a broken record that I always am, but there's always power in the repair.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, the repair, when it's done thoughtfully and consciously, will almost always outweigh the incident.
33:55
SPEAKER_02: Totally agree.
33:56
SPEAKER_00: So remember that.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Like we all have these moments.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: When I snapped at my daughter the other day, I went back and was like, wow, I should not have name-called you.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: That was really lame.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: And we got through it.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: And then there was room to actually talk about what triggered me.
34:14
SPEAKER_00: Totally there.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: So And one more just plug for our listeners.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: Don't try to do this alone.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: If you are out there and you are recognizing yourself in this episode, and you're like, wow, I am feeling a lot of rage, and I my rage is coming out sideways.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: That is the time to reach out for support.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
34:32
SPEAKER_02: And there's support there, whether it's local or not local or within a group context, but don't try to move through that by yourself because it's really hard.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: This is where support matters.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: And keeping it all in will keep that actually can create a shame cycle.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: And keeps this keeps you alone and isolated in it.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: And the truth is every human being has the experience of rage.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: So we're not parenting alone, we're not mothering alone.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: Be true to yourself.
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Don't rage alone.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: I love you, Kate.
35:09
SPEAKER_02: I love you, Dad.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Let's go have a dance party.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: Bye.
35:13
unknown: Bye.
35:15
SPEAKER_02: Hey listeners, we sure hope you enjoyed that episode.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: And if you did, we would really love for you to share this with a friend.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: So here's the deal: we're all in this together.
35:28
SPEAKER_02: And as a community of moms, we need to make sure that no one is left alone.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: So you can help us with that.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: Please share this episode or other episodes that you found useful for you.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Please consider writing a review and rating this podcast because when you do, it actually makes it more accessible to other moms who might be looking for podcasts that they would also find useful.
35:53
SPEAKER_02: So we are so grateful you're here.
35:56
SPEAKER_02: And if you were interested in just taking a minute or two to share and rate and review, Dev and I would be so grateful.
36:05
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for mothering with us.