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When Love Doesn’t Look Like You Expected · Made, Not Found

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: What I'm having a really hard time with is that he will not talk in any meaningful way.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: How is it cool?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Fine.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: The only thing I've ever got.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'll ask another question and half the time he tells me I'm annoying.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: The other half, he tells me I don't know.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think I'm grieving the relationship that we had, knowing that it's never gonna go back.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know that's gonna happen, and you raised him for that purpose.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't make it less painful.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: He may be going through a phase, but if your expectations don't change or you don't give him leeway during this changing time, it could ultimately lead to exactly what you fear the most, which is separation.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Made Not Found.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: We believe the best lives aren't found.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: They're built.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: One real conversation at a time.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Hi.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hey.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm good.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like you're not.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: I am feeling a little emotionally raw.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I think that I'm just I'm just struggling with my relationship with our oldest son, which is likely because he's a teenager, and anyway, I'm just having a hard time with with all with all of it, I guess, with the transition.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I guess for context, um he recently switched schools, and there's a lot, you know, he's playing football, and it's just been a lot of change in his life.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: And um and that's all fine and good.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I knew it was gonna be a transition, and you know, eighth grade's probably a weird time to switch schools, and all of that's fine.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think I'm having a hard time with any of the stuff that like the fact that maybe he's having challenging what challenges, what I'm having a really hard time with is that he will not talk to me in any meaningful way.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so, I mean, I'm talking like how was your day at school?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Fine.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's ever the only thing I ever get.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'll ask another question, and half the time he tells me I'm annoying.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: The other half he tells me I don't know.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so it it's interesting.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: But is that uncommon?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean teenage kid, but say boy, like isn't I feel like that's what I hear from everyone.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the joke at the football game, we're talking about about our kids with the other parents, and the comment is like, oh, tell me because I don't know.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: They just tell me fine, or give me one-word answers.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was the one that said it, and they were people were also saying, oh, 100%, that's what I get too.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: And and so is it expected or common?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And my logical brain understands that this is developmentally, uh I imagine normal, and that he's supposed to, you know, pull away to some degree.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think especially like I know that it it logically it makes sense, but emotionally it hurts.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like I feel, you know, I had a date with him, and we're in the car, and I was he was on his phone part of the time, which I was thinking I should I should have just told him to get off his phone.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: But I also am having a time where I don't want to nag at him.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: And and so I let him be on his phone.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, I tried to talk to him and engage, and I got the one-word answers, and and it just feels like such so disconnected.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: But what I realized through all of this is that the actual problem is my expectations, which I feel like has been a common theme throughout my life is how do I manage my expectations so that I can be happy or whatever I'm you know I'm looking for.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And yet I'm failing at it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the so the question you came to is is how do I manage my expectations?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or I guess, yeah, how does anyone manage their expectations?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: When you know logically you need to change your expectations, but you're emotionally, you're just not there.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this has been a common one for you because he hearing it, it makes me think back to when we were first married, I think, or maybe first dating, but I think it was first married.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and I had a tendency to give answers like my mom or my dad, like my family would, which is uh I'll be home in five minutes, or I'm on my way, or whatever it may be.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then I would get wrapped up in something, or or just it was longer than I expected, and I would come home and you would be so upset.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and for me, I'm like, I was on my way, like on my way is obviously obviously subjective, right?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was planning to leave, or I was on my way out, or I'm in the car, would be very different interpretations of on my way.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and you told me at that time about expectations, and and you said to me, like, I'd rather you tell me you'll be home in two hours and come home in an hour, yeah, than tell me you're on your way and come home 15 minutes after I expect it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think maybe, you know, I think that I hold myself to a very high standard, and maybe I'm uptight when it comes to those things, but I hold high expectations for myself, and so I have probably always had to somewhat manage my expectations around other people so that I'm not constantly disappointed.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Well, it shows up in different ways for each of us because I I would say the same.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have very high expectations of myself and I hold myself to very high accountability, and I'm very frustrated with other people when they don't live up to my standard.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: What I think I realized is I haven't always communicated my standard, and so maybe I'm holding somebody else to a standard that they don't even know about.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um I I wonder, I I mean, I can I can relate.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I guess have you had instances?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Can you think of instances in your life where you've had to manage your expectations?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: And are you better at I mean, I feel like this has not been a common theme for you, it's been a common theme for me.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: So are you just better at managing them, or is it something that you have don't think through as much?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or I think it's just I think it's expectations in different ways.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: For me, the one that comes to mind immediately is expectations of my team at work, and um where expectations might get in the way and become a negative is when I don't live up to them or we don't as a company live up to them, and then I may not even realize all the good we did.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So so give me an example of that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, as an example, um, you know, in my industry in in food and beverage, I'm constantly hearing about the person that scaled to a billion-dollar exit and the person that did it in two years.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm using extremes for examples.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so while we've built a hundred million dollar company in revenue, not in valuation, I sometimes am thinking we're not doing enough or we're not doing it fast enough.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's like a broad example of my expectation kind of being a negative for me.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or I might think somebody should these are these are general uh um examples, but I might think somebody should handle a conversation or something a certain way.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's my expectation, and I'm frustrated when they don't handle it that way.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: When in when in reality, if I step back from it, what I should really care about is did we accomplish what we're trying to accomplish?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: What was the result?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So my expectation was set in the in the way it was done rather than what was accomplished.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh that's interesting because I was thinking that it was only me that had this issue, but when you said that, you a hundred percent have that's more of a theme for you, thinking like, oh, we don't do that much stuff, or we I mean you you will compare and set an expectation based on what you see externally, like we're not doing that many things, or we don't do that many things cool things with our kids, or we don't travel like other people do, or our company isn't as successful, or whatever.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's constantly uh comparison, it's a big part of it, it's not always the part of it, but I just talked about this last night with you, where I went to I took our oldest son to a a high school football game, which was a huge deal.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the two teams that were in the top ten in the country here in in Florida.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he was excited, but he brought it up, he was excited to go.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: We went and he talked about one of his friends who was gonna go and who was who had sideline passes.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And in my mind, I started like thinking, well, I well, if I came here maybe uh or I'm coming to this game, maybe I should have had sideline passes.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, did I not know the right people?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Did I not ask somebody?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I caught myself doing it.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the expectations that come from the comparison are always a negative for me and something I've been working on.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think I caught myself yesterday and ended up enjoying the time.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, the comparison ones, easy, never uh easy one that's never positive for me.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like mine are so much more emotion-based.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like it becomes like like you not coming home, you telling me you were gonna come be home, you're on your way home.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's such a great example.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then you coming home two hours later felt first of all, so disrespectful.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: But at the core of that is probably like this such a trigger for me because it was like I wasn't important enough for you to update.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't think about me in the two hours that you were, you know, that you that between the time you said you were gonna be home and then and you were home.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it feels so much more personal, which I don't know, I guess the root of that is But for me, from my perspective, it wasn't that I was so delayed.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was I was on my way home.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: To me, that meant I was like maybe I'll think of a general example.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was packing up at work or I was getting ready to start transitioning out of work.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I might have had a couple more conversations and I might have um you know ended up being pulled into a meeting or something.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it wasn't a big update or change of plans.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was I'm I'm on my way, I'm like preparing to come home.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you took it as like I was in the car already.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I've changed that based on what you keep what you told me, which is I'd rather you set a worse, a lower expectation and exceed it.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: 100%, always.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: I think that um I mean maybe that's why I'm having such a hard time with our oldest son, because such a big part of managing expectations to me is communicating that.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like communicating that this is what I need.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then in a relationship like this, it's like, okay, you can try to meet me somewhere in the middle of what's reasonable for what you need and what I need, right?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like I feel like another example would be like when you were first, when we were first married and you were traveling like Sunday through Thursday, and and you would walk in the door, and I was like a puppy dog who I couldn't get enough of you.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: And you were like a stone wall.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: And and it and you had to be able, and it took a while actually, I think, maybe, maybe for you to even realize that that we our expectations were so far off.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: You were coming home to be like, oh, I'm home, I can finally relax.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I was coming home, or you and I had you coming home to like me being like, oh, I have someone that I get to share every day with.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: But we were able to talk about that eventually, and and we were able to come to a conclusion.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas I feel like I am now in a situation where I fully have to change my expectations of what my our relation my relationship with my son is going to look like.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think this relates to where you're going about our son, but when you use the example of us, yeah, I think the uh the biggest impact was when we understood where the other person was coming from.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, and tell me if this is wrong, but once you understood that when I was gone Sunday through Friday, I was on 24-7.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was talking nonstop, it was physically and mentally exhausting.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I came home, I needed a break.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And after I got that break, then I could show up for you the way you wanted or expected.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And when I understood that you in some ways were alone during that time, or at least without me, and and I always think it's harder being the person home in your current or in your familiar setting with the other person gone than being the person that's gone.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: But when I understood that, I realized that I needed time to decompress, and then I needed to make a priority of showing up and giving you the attention and catching up with you and making you the priority.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: But until we understood each other's issue or situation, it was really hard to relate.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I bring that up is because when you're thinking about our son, which it sounds like is what you're struggling with, I think you have to understand where he is.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting though, because when you just were talking about that, I still had like in my head, I could feel in my phys in my body where there was like this one part of me, this one voice in my head that said that like, but why didn't you like it was you showing up the way that I expected?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I and then it was this like part of me that's that's like, but weren't you also craving that time together?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's that still feels raw 20, maybe not 20, I mean 15 years later.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's the hardest piece for me to manage.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: I can understand logically that you needed that, and then like my heart is like, but why weren't you like missing me and couldn't wait to get through the door to see me too?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: But just because it's the way you express it doesn't mean it's the way I have to express it, which I think is the key to you understanding about our son is like um one, I've never really been that good at identifying and definitely not verbalizing emotions like you have.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's a male, female thing or whether it's a me thing, I don't know.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the reality.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you would you would agree with that.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And and then for you to expect or be upset about how I felt or how it didn't feel because it wasn't the same as you is, in my opinion, irrational and irrelevant.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, you can't call it irrelevant because that's not fair.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I only say irrelevant about it's not not how you feel is irrelevant.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: I started out saying I was wrong.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Not how you feel is irrelevant, how I feel and or if I got there a different way, it's irrelevant as long as I got there.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're were you, at least if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying, how could you not be so excited to talk to me that you were just like waiting for that moment?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I just told you, like, I whether I knew I was or didn't know I was, I got there after I was able to decompress.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it almost sounds like when I hear it, like the expectation is unless it's exactly how you expect it, then it's not good enough.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's what you mean, but when you say like, how could I not be how you are well it's interesting because um first of all, I'm realizing that this is actually the most common thread that we have fought about our entire marriage.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: It is because I am so emotional and so like wearing my heart on my sleeve, and like and you are just so different.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: We're so different from that aspect, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: So to me, it's like but is there any other way?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, literally, I'm like, I don't understand, like Ann, I can't even tell you, like, you're just not you're just not that guy.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: You're not the guy who's like, I've missed you so much, and I can't wait to like be on you and just like that's just not you.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm like still not quite understanding how because to me I'm like like that's just love, like that's just showing love is touch and talk and like being close and and like there's just no other.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is there only one way?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: No, but it is interesting because I mean how would you say that you have show do you show your love?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now I think I show well we the love languages I think is a is a great example of it, right?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: For for me, um love language my love language would have been historically gift giving.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um Which is so funny because it resonates it all zeroes me almost.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: I know I understand, but but it But no, I'm just telling because not everyone else listening understands.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you you definitely don't care about the gifts.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: You would rather be your love language would be what?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Time given, or I forget the.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that like the three are they almost like it's like uh quality time for sure, touch and like words of affirmation, which I think.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so the words one is really tough.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: You're good at being present with me.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: The other two are challenging.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten better at at the words.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it depends on the time of day, but but I definitely have gotten better about it.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think um, and knowing that now, I it's even if it's not comfortable, I try to make an effort, even if it's a text when I'm heading home or a call before I get there.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: The funny thing about me is um I could be the distance actually brings some of it out of me.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I could be on a plane leaving and I start to feel like the oh my god, I miss her and I miss the family.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And but in the moment when I'm back, it's almost like wiped away.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to like text you while I'm it's true.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: The moment you come back, you're like, oh, there's dishes in the sink and the dog's annoying, and that's all.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Other things distract me.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: You forgot you missed me at all.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I I um my way of expressing it would be different, but I I think it's the point about expectations.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think it's fair for me to expect you to um inherently understand my language or what matters to me, and vice versa.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: We have to talk about it and then we have to make an effort to give the other person what they need in the way they need it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not natural.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think the communication piece is so interesting though, because I think that it's so easy to only you only know what you know, right?
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_03: You only see it the way you see it.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is where like I can think of people in your family that, you know, you guys are very Italian, and so there's often very heated arguments, but generally not actually to each other, just to other people.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so you can hear a story and you can and and it's very much like this is this is just wrong, and this is the way it is, and and clearly I fall into that too, because I'm still struggling with the same things.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, well, I think I think one of the reasons that this is so valuable, this discussion right now, is because yes, in a relationship, we are gonna spend the time and we're both adults, and we can eventually probably took years of wearing me down or working with me, whatever however you want to look at it.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've worn you down, yeah, working with me, being patient with me, whatever it may be, but uh to get me there, but to get me under in an understanding or more flexible mentality.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: But now you're talking about our son, who's 14.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I don't know that it's realistic to expect him when I'm in my late 40s and maybe just coming around to this um more flexible and more understanding, more open-hearted, more open-hearted like way of being, to un to expect our 14-year-old son, who is half of me, um, to be that.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so now you're faced with a situation where you have expectations, and I don't know that maybe I'm wrong, but I don't know that it's reasonable to expect that he does most of the changing.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, I'm aware.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Listen, I'm very much aware of the fact that it is not him that needs change.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm aware that it's me.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: This is my issue.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: I also I also recognize that it it's not, it's it becomes bigger than that too.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that I've always had a fear of when you raise boys to be men, to leave you, to start their own family, they take on a wife, but always, not always, sometimes, who knows?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe they'll take on a husband, it doesn't matter.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, the point is, and and so you're raising them for that, and my biggest fear has always been that they would grow up and not call me.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: And really, that's not about the phone calls, it's about the connection.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that there's two things going on.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: One of which is that I told you one of which is that I think I'm grieving the relationship that we had, knowing that it's never gonna go back.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know that's gonna happen.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you raise them for that purpose.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it doesn't make it less painful.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: But like, don't don't get me wrong.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm fully aware that like it's my expectations that I have to change.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't I mean, listen, if if he was like trying to cuddle with me all the day and hold my hand, I'd be like, this is a problem, clearly.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't want that.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I I know that you know that is our job to raise him to be a man and to stay on his own and to be independent, which we could work on a little bit in some ways, because I definitely help to what's the word I'm looking for, but um do too much for him, and that's probably because that's something I can do, and it's disservicing him most likely.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: But but I'm aware, like the fact is I'm aware that my expectations need to change.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm aware that that's what's causing me pain, and I don't expect him to change.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think developmentally he's doing what he needs to do.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: Do I hope that he's able to talk to me more?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like a hundred percent.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, yes, he's half of you, but like he's also half of me.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I've always been able to talk to all of our boys, and like they've opened up about so many things in the past.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, when he was younger, we talked about sex, and I've always said, like, I will give you real answers because I want them to be able to talk to me about anything.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I really still hope that changes, and and yet I know that I can't put pressure on him, that's not gonna bring him closer to me.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I think that um you may be in a place where you're over-emphasizing the change, and this is just an observation, and not um fully appreciating the things that are left.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: So so, first of all, to go back, I a hundred percent um agree with you and align and feel the same about uh him and and at one point all of the boys going through this exact phase.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: I told you last night that we went to that football game and he recognized somebody from his school, and it dawned on me that this may be the last time he asked me to go to a football game with him.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that like tugs in my heartstrings.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: I do have them, despite what you think.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: I know you have heartstrings, they're just like buried deep, and you have to like use a fishing pole to get to them.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: That this tugged at him.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, we have friends who just took their son to college and yeah, and you know, uh multiple friends, and one um the m the mother cried and for days, and the other the father cried for days, and and the point is even hearing that I I'm like recognize that change is underway and it will only continue to change, and it it is a very difficult one to accept.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, I see him probably cuddling with you more than he ever has.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean cuddles relative, right?
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: But he will lay next to me, which is we'll watch a movie and he constantly comes right over to you, and they f him and some of the other or the other boys fight over who's gonna be next to you.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, I think don't underappreciate or underweight that, because it's huge.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, he's not in the talking mode right now, but that doesn't mean that when he has something, he won't talk to you.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't trust that he will talk to me, which I think maybe is maybe that's the bigger issue.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: And and I just want him to be talking to someone, even if it's not me.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I want him to be opening up and talking to somebody because I think that that's so important.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: But I guess to what you said earlier about me, is it's not fair of me to expect other people to behave the way that I want them to.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so I want him to be able to have these conversations with me, or just a conversation that literally doesn't end in I don't know or fine.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: And at the other side, it it's un it's unfair of me to judge our entire relationship based on that part that he's not giving me that I really want.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because there are other things, ways that he is showing up and and and I get that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: However, even though my logical brain understands it, I'm still having a really hard time.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm not saying you shouldn't have a hard time.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone is, and I I understand why you're having a hard time.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to think logically through expectations, and when we're talking about the expectations of me, it's a different scenario.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think uh when that's why I said it was interesting, because you're you have expectations of someone who you can't expect to to change because you know the reality.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're a teenage boy that's going through all these things, and so it's gonna force you to look at your expectations and also what is reality right now, not what you want it to be.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a hard thing to do, is like can't face candid reality, the harsh reality, whether whether you like it or not, this is what it is.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that I think when I think about it, the biggest risk, he may be going through a phase, but if your expectations don't change or you don't give him leeway um during this changing time, it could ultimately lead to exactly what you fear the most, which is separation.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, I know.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I have prayed about this, and I mean, actually, I I you were traveling for work, and I was struggling because I don't want our relationship to be me me nagging him.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: And and generally speaking, he does what he needs to do.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: However, sometimes it's painful, right?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like the mornings with him are painful.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: He's never ready in time, he doesn't get up when you wake him up, like he doesn't he's putting his shoes on like slow as molasses when there's someone waiting for him.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, but the point is I know that me nagging him is going to push him further away, right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so I prayed about it, and I literally had like a download, a God moment, whatever, and it was like talk to him like you talk to Chris, which was so interesting to me because I would never talk to you the way I talked to him.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: You would shut me down in an instant, you in a probably very firm way.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, okay, that's so helpful, except that I I know that you will do the things that you need to do.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't need to be on you.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I but I was like trying to think through it.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, all right, well, you would you would leave at the for the airport at the last minute, maybe, right?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I wouldn't tell you to leave early because I would never that's just not how a relationship works.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's your that's your business, that's your whatever, you'll handle the consequences.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_03: And so I need to get to that place with him.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you just said the key, which is he has to handle the consequences.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the difference with a dad with boys at this age and a mom with boys at this age.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it changes.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: You you just talked about the change in the relationship, but I'm also noticing the change in the relationship, and my expectations um have to change as well.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think about uh I I saw this clip, this video the other day that showed like a dad going into his son who was a teenager, and he told him to get off his video games, and the kid said, In a minute, and the dad aggressively said, get off it now, and went to go turn off the console, and the kid stood up and like got between them.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the moment where the kid was bigger than the dad, maybe stronger than the dad, and this dad paused and said, We'll finish this later, and walked out of the room, and then had a conversation with his son later about how there's a moment where he's gonna be bigger and he's gonna be stronger, and the dad can't physically intimidate him or make him do anything, and he needs to treat him like a man.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, there are consequences, and I'm realizing I don't ever try to intimidate the boys, I try to joke with them, but um but I know I'm the man of the house, and at some point he will be bigger and stronger than me, and there will still be consequences.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think it's just about the consequences, it's not about how he does it, it's not about if he does it the way I want him to do it.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I think of that when I think of you talking about him getting ready for school, whatever you want to do.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're a young man now, but you gotta be ready at this time, and if you're not, here are the consequences.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: Which is like we've we've talked about this, and I know this, and then it and then but you and then I don't do it, basically, except that there is like black and white, or it's not as big as black and white, because even you actually, the one day he wasn't ready on time.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was a couple minutes, a minute past or whatever, and you were like, and I was like, does he get a consequence?
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like, no, I'll talk to him tonight.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so, like, and I get emotionally attached to all of it, which is my own thing, and it's the same thing.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I know I'm the problem.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yet changing it, changing myself and how I'm showing up in those moments has been really tricky.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you're the problem.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think you are the thing that is creating your own frustration.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: 100%.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm the problem in my own mind.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm getting all stressed out, all worked up in the morning, all whatever, bent out of shape because he's two minutes late, instead of if if I could make it so just cut and dry, like you're so much better at it.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: You're not out in time, you lose this.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what what other expectations off of him are you dealing with?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm only asking because I think it could circle back to how you're thinking about expectations in general.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are there expectations with your company or expectations with your parents or expectations with someone else that are also you need to readdress?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think I have through the years, through all things.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think the company is interesting because I think that you know you have this idea and you spend so much time and energy and like pour so much love into it, and and you think it's gonna be an instant success because in your mind it just is and it makes so much sense, and how could not everyone see it?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so going through that process of like, oh wow, this is way harder than I thought, and um and it's not that has definitely been an adjustment, but it's a less emotional one for me.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's but it's still been a huge adjustment in expectations.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you expected it to work immediately and it didn't, yeah, um what did you do?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: How did you deal with it?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because you didn't give up.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, I mean I've had lots of conversations with myself, like I could, right?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: I could say this isn't working, and like it's and and I I don't want to, and I believe in it, and I believe there's it's like really gonna do a service to women, and so it's important, and so my passion behind it is enough to continue to fuel my drive, even though it's been much harder than expected.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I think those things, like pushing through, that's not the hard part for me.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's like managing my own emotions around things that are the hard part about me.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's like even you know, for years it was disappointing my parents was so hard, and and even still, you know, I'm soon to be 46 years old, and there's like a tiny bit of that that will still show up.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm still slightly like worried that when I when my parents listen to this, that they're gonna be mortified and that I'm gonna disappoint them.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, I've thought I've talked about getting a tattoo on my wrists for years, and like there's like a part of me that's like, oh my dad will hate that and maybe Because do you think he they expect you to be perfect?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, but they because they have strong opinions about certain things, and so um I remember when I published my book and your mom and dad, I don't know if they both read it.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: My dad would not read it.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but I remember you telling me that they were really worried about one of your cousins, older cousins, who they really respected reading it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay, back up though, first of all.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: You wrote a book, and before it came out, I had a conversation with my parents and said, like, there's stuff in this book that's gonna be really hard for you to read, and I just need you to know.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, he talks about dealing drugs, talked about cheating on me, and that was really, really hard for my parents.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's why my dad couldn't bring himself to read it.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think yes, he they were also worried about what other people would think.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so there was an expectation around that, right?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: That that and I I think the when I think about that moment though, what's more interesting is the result, which is the person they were most worried about read it and and was very complimentary.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the realization is like people are not perfect, and even the people we think are perfect, we shouldn't have an expectation that they are, and we definitely shouldn't change our activity based on it, or what um our opinions, our position, I think how we live our lives, how we live our lives based on it.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I only say that because it sounds like in your what you were saying, like did that actually make you change the way you lived?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Your concern that your parents' expectation of you was to be perfect, or that they would be disappointed?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that I would call myself like a recovering perfectionist.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so has it changed how I've lived to some degree?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's always been a voice in my head that's probably always with me.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think that uh the beauty of getting older and being more comfortable in my skin and like comfortable with my own journey is that it does not change the decisions I make, but it's the whisper is still there.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're still doing the podcast, I'm still willing to talk about all the things and and and that voice is still in the back of my head.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: But I do it anyway.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to think of how this relates back in terms of how you handle this to our son in that situation.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's lessons in all of it as you explore how you're how you're handling expectations of yourself or others.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that like I think first of all the biggest thing and the thing that I am good at is the awareness around it, right?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that so often we can be mad at someone and we think that we're mad at them for something that it's not even about that.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's something completely else that because it's it's an expectation that was not fulfilled, that they didn't show up a certain way, but they maybe didn't know, and it's it's unfair probably.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: But in that moment you might not even realize why you're actually mad, and the other person doesn't either.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_03: You think it's over something really dumb and little, you know.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that at least in this part of my life, like I have the awareness to recognize that it is my expectation that I will have to change.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that also doesn't mean that it's easy, and it's gonna be a process that I'm gonna trip over a hundred times.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you definitely do a good job of digging deeper to understand the root of it, which I I think is really important because to your point, y it may be based on something that's not even true.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can dig a layer deeper, and I think I think hearing you say that, empathy is a big part of it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, understanding what's going on for the other person or why they may have these concerns or why they may have approached it this way can change everything.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I mean, I think that I've always been good at trying to put myself in someone else's shoes, and which is why I complicate things, you would say I complicate things, because I I can feel both sides of things.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so I remember what it was like to be a teenager.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: I remember being in my room talking to my friends for hours and my mom begging me to come like hang out, and I'm like, I don't want to sit on the couch.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I also remember I didn't love them any less, you know.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like I not like my opinion of them or like my love for them changed.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that I was finding my own way and I needed space to do that, and so that's why like logically I'm good.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Emotionally, I'm a wreck.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do you reconcile the the logical versus the emotional?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, I'm such an emotional being, and so like it's always a process for me.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I first of all I know energy has to flow, or emotion has to flow.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: It has it's you know, it emotions are energy in motion, and if they're not in motion, like they will get stuck, and then that's when I will be a version of myself that I don't want to be.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so part of it is this, like, it is so healing for me to sit and talk and process it.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: And not necessarily even with a solution, like this is not like a one-fix thing.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: This is gonna be like me reminding myself every time that I'm in that car with him, and he answers that his day is fine, that that's gonna be enough.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that that's not his issue, that's my expectation issue.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that it has to be enough.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think you can I think you can go at it different ways to get something.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: I have, I have, and I will continue to try.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like I'm giving up, but I also know sometimes he doesn't want to be pushed.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I know sometimes he's gotten in the car, and just like you were gone all week, he's tired, he's had a lot of output all day long, he's not interested in recapping his day or talking about whatever.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's unfair of me to continue to push and pry in those situations, and I can recognize that.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's when I mean it's enough.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: And not that I'm not gonna keep trying to have conversations with him because I of course am, but also have enough awareness to know that those times when he's shut down like that in the car, it's because he doesn't have anything to give, and I'm not gonna push on that.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and there are other times, you know, and there and and so I think that yeah, I mean, I guess it comes down to awareness again and putting yourself in the other person's shoes and just knowing, like, just because but just because that's logical and I understand that he's tired and doesn't want to share, it doesn't mean that it's still not gonna like hurt my heart a little bit.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think anyone's saying that, and you should stop um putting that pressure on yourself because you can go through it and it can still feel hard and and sad and all the things and um and still be logically explainable and something you know you'll just get through.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: And also it doesn't have to become something bigger than, you know.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think oftentimes it starts with like a small trigger like that in our relationship too, and you know, one expectation isn't met, and then it becomes into this whole thing of you don't care about me, and you don't, you know, and you're like, what in the hell are you talking about?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I just steamrolled this entire story about how we're getting divorced because you're like, I was late.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's um good to think about the the personal aspect of it because I th when I think of expectations I automatically go towards work.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I I don't have any less expectations.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I I guess I have expectations at at home that I've had to check.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think that the house should always be presentable.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: Our house is always presentable.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: You want the house like near perfect.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: I want it perfect.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I think when I do some of it, then I realize how hard it is and how much constant attention it takes.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and then I re-jigger my my expectations or reset them, right?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not that I want it any less.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I still want that.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I change things.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: So on Sunday we do we all do chores and we get those things addressed, and and also more often, if I see something that's bothering me, I'll just do it instead of bitching about it because it's a better way for for me to handle it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: Which is so much better because I remember you used to get so angry because I had a drying rack out, and you were like, you can't have a drying rack out, you have to dry all the dishes.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, okay, but I literally just grocery shopped, made dinner, cleaned up dinner, and the dishes will dry themselves.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: But now you will dry them usually if it's bothering you.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's not about the dishes being out and on a drying rack, it's just more clutter.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I hate clutter.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know this.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want everything packed away behind.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: If it's cluttered behind a door, it can be cluttered.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Don't open the closets.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: Just but out on the counters, just have it look presentable.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, it's an evolution and that's changed for me.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'll work because I think where it shows up the the most for me in a negative way is is again like I I ex uphold people to a high expectation, and then and then I feel like I'm disappointed often, but but often it's probably an overstatement, occasionally, and I make it in my mind often.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then the re realization to me is like I disappoint myself sometimes.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: My expectations are too high or off.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they're just off.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's so interesting though, because it's so much easier to see something from a other person's perspective because I think that actually what we do is very similar, and it's probably very similar to what everyone does, because you will get disappointed because someone doesn't do something the way you would have done it.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Which is the same thing you said is unfair that I do, which is 100% true.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: But so maybe the goal was accomplished but in a different way, and it and it bothers you a little bit because it wasn't the way you would want it done.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell I think I've gotten much better at if it's accomplished, it's accomplished.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: But along the way, when it isn't accomplished, I think that's where it comes up as a as an issue.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I had this thought while I was just saying that, which was we talked a lot about when expectations lead to Negative things, but have they ever led to positive things?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think um yeah, actually 100%.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know I have been doing another podcast with with my friend, and and she's it's called Don't Tell the Kids, and it's it's uh my friend and I talking about all sorts of just life, but but she's very much a free spirit and she's like fly by she flies by the seat of her pants, and that's just her personality, and I knew that going in.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so when it's been tricky sometimes, I mean we were supposed to record a podcast one day and she found a lost puppy, and next thing we know, we don't get to record because she we're calling shelters, and we spent literally the entire podcasting time trying to find this puppy at home.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, and I think you know, we talked about it, and you're like, What the hell?
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I just know who she is, and I love her for who she is, and that's just what I signed up for.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I love her for who she is too.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I only say it in a business setting of like, if you have agreed to this, then I expect you to uh hold to it.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Shit happens all the time.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, we're committing to something.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I think um hearing you say that, I think expectations when communicated well are actually very valuable.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100% are.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like um, they can allow somebody to rise to the occasion or know what's expected of them.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And when when they don't know what's expected of them, myself included, it's not fair to then hold me to it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we've experienced this with our kids, right?
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, I forget what it was, but our middle son, it was like, well, you didn't tell me that, or you didn't show me that.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I'll be like, something's I forget what it was, but one of our sons left something by the door.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it was, but it was like it didn't make any sense.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so I told him, like, you can't do this because this, and he literally was like, Oh, I didn't realize that.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, it was like, how everyone would know that.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that we automatically assume that the way that we do things is the way to do things as as humans, or that everyone would know that that you shouldn't do it this way, or whatever, you know, and you forget that that's not, we're all different, we have different ways of doing things.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and in a business setting, like uh just last week we had our we had our leadership meeting in Austin, and and it was probably the first time that I went into that with clear expectations and priorities for the following year, and the meeting was so productive because it was communicated ahead of time what was expected, not only in terms of what we were trying to accomplish, but what I expected of them to bring to the meeting to make it productive.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it just dawned on me like the the expectation when communicated ahead of time and clear uh can be so valuable.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to think of a an application of that in your personal life, but I think that um, you know, it's an interesting topic because I imagine that we all are dealing with this in one way or another.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I think as always, we're not here with the answers, just here to discuss the the process.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the question would be, you know, what what expectations do you have of others, of yourself that you're not communicating that are leading to frustration or other uh challenging feelings.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, clearly it's a topic that you can have a lot of discussion around.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: It may it may pull on some you know some emotions, good or bad, frustration, especially if we're you're not able to communicate clearly, but it's definitely worth a conversation.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you guys so much for being here.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: We appreciate you.