Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Author Doug Melville On The Forgotton Story Of America's First Black Generals + More

Transcript

INTERVIEW: Author Doug Melville On The Forgotton Story Of America's First Black Generals + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning the Breakfast Club. Morning.
0:04
Speaker 2: Everybody is DJ NV Charlamagne to God. We are to
0:08
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in the building. Yes,
0:10
Speaker 2: indeed we have the brother Doug Millville.
0:12
Speaker 1: Welcome.
0:13
Speaker 3: How you doing today, gentlemen, how life today?
0:15
Speaker 4: Wife to see you.
0:16
Speaker 1: It is released week for US Man. Generals is out.
0:20
Speaker 5: It is the new release off my book in print
0:22
Speaker 5: Black Privilege Publishing with Simon and Schuston Man.
0:25
Speaker 1: Happy to be able to put this into the world.
0:27
Speaker 1: Tell them what Invisible Generals is?
0:29
Speaker 3: Yes, so Invisible Generals is my family story of America's
0:33
Speaker 3: first two black generals. And these two gentlemen, a father
0:37
Speaker 3: and a son, were critical to the integration of the
0:40
Speaker 3: United States of America's military, which was seventy five years
0:43
Speaker 3: ago this year. And also were the two men responsible
0:46
Speaker 3: for getting the legislation passed to create the Tuskegee Airmen
0:50
Speaker 3: and then the sun commanded the Tuskegee Airmen.
0:53
Speaker 4: So these two men did so much in history.
0:56
Speaker 3: And out of the three hundred and thirty five thousand
0:59
Speaker 3: people in the military at the start of World War Two,
1:01
Speaker 3: there was only two black officers, a father and a son,
1:06
Speaker 3: and they were the invisible generals, treated as if they
1:08
Speaker 3: were invisible as a way to get them to resign,
1:12
Speaker 3: drop out, or get dishonorably discharged from the military, but
1:15
Speaker 3: they used it as a superpower to help change America.
1:18
Speaker 1: Would you know that was gonna be the title of.
1:20
Speaker 3: The probably from the beginning, you know, my dad was
1:27
Speaker 3: that was kind of how he presented the story to
1:29
Speaker 3: me about Ben and his father as the invisible Generals,
1:32
Speaker 3: and I just like the way it sounded.
1:34
Speaker 4: He said it kind of impassing.
1:35
Speaker 3: To me, but it was something that you know, stuck
1:38
Speaker 3: on and the more I researched and the more I
1:40
Speaker 3: got involved in it, the more you realized they were
1:42
Speaker 3: really treated like they were invisible. No one talked to them,
1:45
Speaker 3: they were silent. So that was the title that I
1:48
Speaker 3: thought was fitting.
1:49
Speaker 1: And not only that, not only them, their contributions.
1:51
Speaker 5: We talked about this on the Daily Show a little bit,
1:53
Speaker 5: but it's so fascinating to me, like, tell them what
1:56
Speaker 5: they helped create.
1:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So a lot of times, you know, when
2:01
Speaker 3: you talk about veterans or you talk about people in
2:03
Speaker 3: the military, you only talk about their military service. But
2:06
Speaker 3: the reality is there's so many more contributions. So Ben
2:10
Speaker 3: Davis Junior, the youngest of the two invisible generals, when
2:14
Speaker 3: he retired in nineteen seventy from the military. He then
2:17
Speaker 3: went on to work at the Pentagon and he was
2:20
Speaker 3: responsible for leading the efforts to create what is now
2:23
Speaker 3: known as the TSA. So there was only two airports
2:26
Speaker 3: in the whole United States that had commercial security, and
2:29
Speaker 3: there was a lot of hijackings and skyjackings.
2:32
Speaker 4: So when he.
2:33
Speaker 3: Came from the military, he said, the first thing that
2:36
Speaker 3: I should do is try to make commercial aviation as
2:39
Speaker 3: safe as the military aviation. And that would start with
2:43
Speaker 3: preventing hijackings and making sure the airplanes are safe because
2:47
Speaker 3: customers and clients were starting to feel really uneasy. And
2:51
Speaker 3: back then, hijackers would board the airplane, they would take
2:55
Speaker 3: out weapons, they would run down the aisle, take everybody's jewels,
2:59
Speaker 3: and then open the door and parachute out. So this
3:02
Speaker 3: happened seventy eighty ninety times a month. I mean, if
3:04
Speaker 3: you look at the statics, it's crazy. But airlines were
3:08
Speaker 3: just getting started at that level and scale that we
3:10
Speaker 3: know them today. So he said, we have to make
3:13
Speaker 3: sure that aviation is safe, and it was key to
3:16
Speaker 3: do the proper communication because he didn't want people to
3:19
Speaker 3: get scared and then not want to fly, because you
3:21
Speaker 3: make everybody nervous to travel and things of that nature.
3:24
Speaker 3: So he said, there's two things that we have to do.
3:27
Speaker 3: Number one, we need to have people undercover and have
3:30
Speaker 3: them federally regulated to make sure like you know, passenger
3:34
Speaker 3: fifty seven, like Leslie Snipes, you know, he has to
3:36
Speaker 3: go on here and like protect the plane. And he
3:38
Speaker 3: oversaw the training of four thousand officers who ended up
3:42
Speaker 3: being the first federally funded air marshal or sky marshall program.
3:47
Speaker 3: So that was one solution. And the second solution was
3:50
Speaker 3: take the two airports in DC that had commercial security
3:54
Speaker 3: and see how he could replicate that using X rays
3:58
Speaker 3: and using metal detectors for luggages and people to ensure
4:02
Speaker 3: that they were safe when they went in. So this
4:04
Speaker 3: man did both of these contributions and people never heard
4:07
Speaker 3: of him. Yeah, we use these things all day every day.
4:10
Speaker 3: You don't even think about it.
4:12
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask, So he did it so far,
4:14
Speaker 2: so long ago? Why did it take so long for
4:17
Speaker 2: the whole world to jump?
4:18
Speaker 4: Was it?
4:18
Speaker 3: Was it the nine eleven fear and yeah, nine to eleven
4:21
Speaker 3: fear was when TSA, you know, kind of up their
4:24
Speaker 3: game a little bit and became a little bit more
4:26
Speaker 3: of a federally funded and centralized because each airport was
4:29
Speaker 3: doing it somewhat individually. They had the federal standards, but
4:33
Speaker 3: each airport had a little You remember before nine to eleven,
4:35
Speaker 3: you would kind of go on a minute early, You'd
4:38
Speaker 3: be like, oh, went off in your pocket. They'd be like,
4:40
Speaker 3: you're so crazy, what was going on here? So that
4:44
Speaker 3: was when it became what we most people know of
4:46
Speaker 3: it today. But you know, he did these under the
4:49
Speaker 3: guidance of the president at the time, and it was
4:51
Speaker 3: important that he made aviation safe.
4:53
Speaker 4: So that's one of the.
4:54
Speaker 3: Stories I share in the book is how can we
4:56
Speaker 3: not know these stories?
4:59
Speaker 5: And then the speed I like, that's crazy to even
5:01
Speaker 5: think that there was a time where there was no
5:02
Speaker 5: speed line.
5:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and this was under the Carter administration. Those
5:06
Speaker 3: two were under the Knicks administration. But under the Carter
5:08
Speaker 3: administration he went and they brought him on in nineteen
5:12
Speaker 3: seventy five to be a special assistant to help create
5:15
Speaker 3: a national speed limit. So it was it served two
5:18
Speaker 3: different purposes. Part of the purposes was to ensure that
5:22
Speaker 3: maximize gas because there was a gas shortage and they
5:25
Speaker 3: wanted everybody to drive, you know, at a rate that
5:27
Speaker 3: would maximize the RPMs of the car. And then the
5:30
Speaker 3: second part of it was to federalize national speed limit
5:34
Speaker 3: because there was a lot of confusion in the states
5:36
Speaker 3: truck drivers ticketing, but people didn't want it, you know,
5:40
Speaker 3: and it was really his last assignment, and some would
5:43
Speaker 3: argue he got you know, that was his last assignment
5:45
Speaker 3: because everybody was writing letters going, we hate the fifty
5:48
Speaker 3: five mile hour speed limit. It was sixty five. You
5:50
Speaker 3: lowered it. I bought this fast car. I hate it.
5:53
Speaker 3: So he was nicknamed Mister fifty five. But it wasn't
5:57
Speaker 3: something at the time that was very complimentary. People really
6:00
Speaker 3: thought it was more of a burden. But he was
6:02
Speaker 3: the one who made sure that was put into a
6:05
Speaker 3: federal law.
6:05
Speaker 2: So my question is this is a lot, right.
6:08
Speaker 1: So you talk about TSA, you talk.
6:10
Speaker 2: About you know, what he did in the military, and
6:13
Speaker 2: you know, even with the speed limit, what made you
6:15
Speaker 2: want to share this story? What was the point where
6:17
Speaker 2: you said, I want to share this story.
6:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, it came out in an unexpected way.
6:22
Speaker 3: So I was invited to a screening of the movie
6:24
Speaker 3: Red Tails, and Terrence Howard in the movie was the
6:29
Speaker 3: commander of the Red Tails. And we're all there, it's
6:32
Speaker 3: the Red Tails. It's you know, a bunch of you know,
6:35
Speaker 3: actual Tusky airman on one side and then the actors
6:37
Speaker 3: on the other side, and I'm in the middle.
6:39
Speaker 4: And they're like, Doug, this is the screening of Red Tails.
6:42
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
6:45
Speaker 3: And then we get down to the screening and he
6:47
Speaker 3: comes on the screen and he's his name was changed,
6:53
Speaker 3: and I was like, what, Colonel Bullard? Who is that?
6:56
Speaker 3: So I'm furious and I leave and there's an after
7:00
Speaker 3: and I started asking people at the party who changed
7:03
Speaker 3: the names and they're like, oh, Doug, this is Hollywood.
7:08
Speaker 3: This isn't a documentary, this is this is a movie
7:10
Speaker 3: that fictionalizes the Red Tails. And I go, yeah, but
7:14
Speaker 3: all the families are here and all the names are changed.
7:17
Speaker 1: Rue.
7:19
Speaker 3: And I went home and I said, Dad, this is
7:21
Speaker 3: you know, outrageous, And my dad left to me and goes, Doug,
7:25
Speaker 3: if you think changing the names are bad, let me
7:28
Speaker 3: tell you how I was raised and how Ben and
7:31
Speaker 3: his father helped raise me and how they lived as
7:34
Speaker 3: if they were invisible because our lives were threatened. And
7:37
Speaker 3: then he shared with me the story and that kind
7:40
Speaker 3: of sent me on a journey to start researching and
7:42
Speaker 3: going in because even my dad found out things during
7:46
Speaker 3: this process that he didn't know about, and it was
7:49
Speaker 3: it was an incredible experience to.
7:51
Speaker 4: Go do that.
7:52
Speaker 5: What inspired you to dive into rediscovering your family's legacy?
7:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know. Once I started scratch catching it, well,
8:01
Speaker 3: the first thing I did was I said at Google alert,
8:03
Speaker 3: and honestly, Charlot Mane, I set the Google alert in
8:06
Speaker 3: twenty twelve, thirteen, fourteen fifteen, and I was like, one
8:10
Speaker 3: day someone's gonna write about this, or why does nobody
8:15
Speaker 3: know about it? And then in twenty fifteen, the Google
8:17
Speaker 3: alert went off that West Point Military Academy was considering
8:22
Speaker 3: renaming their biggest largest barracks after General Davis. There was
8:27
Speaker 3: actually three names. It was William Westmoreland, it was Norman Schwartzkoff,
8:31
Speaker 3: and it was Benjamin O'Davis. So Ben Davis Junior. He
8:36
Speaker 3: graduated from West Point in nineteen thirty six, but they
8:39
Speaker 3: didn't know he was black when he entered the academy,
8:42
Speaker 3: so on his first day they put him in a
8:44
Speaker 3: makeshift room at the end of the hallway with no roommate,
8:48
Speaker 3: and he goes to campus for four years with not
8:52
Speaker 3: one person.
8:53
Speaker 4: Talking to him.
8:55
Speaker 3: So they used silencing as a way to get him
8:57
Speaker 3: out of the military. So he goes to bed the
8:59
Speaker 3: first night. The second day, he wakes up, he hears
9:02
Speaker 3: pitter patter of the feet of other cadets. He feels
9:06
Speaker 3: like they didn't put a flyer under his door because
9:09
Speaker 3: he was in a solo room at the end of
9:11
Speaker 3: the hall. So he gets dressed and he runs down
9:14
Speaker 3: to the room and the door is locked and he
9:16
Speaker 3: listens in and they say, we accidentally let an N
9:19
Speaker 3: word in and we need to silence him until he
9:23
Speaker 3: drops out. So he calls his dad and he goes, dad,
9:26
Speaker 3: can you believe this? And his dad goes, son, there's
9:29
Speaker 3: eight million Americans on the outside that are rooting for you.
9:33
Speaker 3: I raised you for this moment, I trained you for
9:35
Speaker 3: this moment. I'm always here right the day of graduation
9:39
Speaker 3: on the wall and look towards that day, and no
9:42
Speaker 3: matter what anybody does to you, you have to graduate.
9:46
Speaker 3: Oo and he went there fifty weeks a year, fifty
9:51
Speaker 3: weeks a year, not one single human interaction outside.
9:56
Speaker 1: Of the classroom.
9:58
Speaker 3: So I don't even know how anybody can to do that.
10:01
Speaker 3: And he would always talk about his most embarrassing moments
10:04
Speaker 3: were every single day when you had to eat, you
10:07
Speaker 3: have to ask for permission to sit because he was
10:09
Speaker 3: the only black, no one wanted him to sit at
10:11
Speaker 3: the table, so he had to eat standing up every
10:14
Speaker 3: single day, times a day for four years. So now
10:18
Speaker 3: it's time for him to get ready to graduate, and
10:21
Speaker 3: they pull him in the office and say, you can't
10:23
Speaker 3: be in charge of anyone because the military was still segregated.
10:27
Speaker 3: So they asked him to drop out, and they said,
10:29
Speaker 3: why don't we set you up.
10:30
Speaker 4: With a law firm.
10:31
Speaker 3: And he said, I'm going to graduate because I would
10:34
Speaker 3: like to be a pilot, and I graduated in the
10:37
Speaker 3: top third, so I should be able to select what
10:39
Speaker 3: I want to do. And they said it's never going
10:42
Speaker 3: to happen, so you're wasting your time. He then graduates.
10:47
Speaker 3: He ignores that and graduates. Now it's just him and
10:50
Speaker 3: his dad as the only two black officers in the
10:53
Speaker 3: United States, so we had not gone back to West
10:56
Speaker 3: Point or our family hadn't really talked about west Point,
11:00
Speaker 3: not good or bad.
11:01
Speaker 4: You just didn't.
11:01
Speaker 3: You just didn't even you know, it was like persona
11:04
Speaker 3: non grata. But then when I got that Google aler,
11:07
Speaker 3: I went up to them and I shared to them
11:08
Speaker 3: this story, and over the course of the process that
11:11
Speaker 3: they go through, they ended up selecting General Benjamin O'Davis
11:15
Speaker 3: to be the name on the largest, most expensive barracks
11:18
Speaker 3: in the center of Western Campus.
11:20
Speaker 5: Wow, talk to us about you know why telling these
11:24
Speaker 5: stories is so important for the families to retain ownership.
11:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.
11:28
Speaker 3: So my biggest thing of like my purpose was when
11:31
Speaker 3: I started finding out after Red Tales, the families of
11:34
Speaker 3: these movies that we watched don't necessarily get paid, you know,
11:38
Speaker 3: the family of other movies Devotion or you know Red Tales.
11:42
Speaker 3: Sometimes the families are brought on as advisors, but there's
11:45
Speaker 3: not necessarily a name and likeness fee. There's no creative
11:49
Speaker 3: input from the families necessarily. So the more I started
11:53
Speaker 3: researching this, the more I realized is that the people
11:56
Speaker 3: who film the story or write the story own the
12:01
Speaker 3: story because people in the military are public servants, so
12:06
Speaker 3: it's all public domain. So all these stories of congressmen,
12:10
Speaker 3: elected officials, military veterans, anyone in the public sector. Anyone
12:16
Speaker 3: can tell your story and you don't have to get
12:18
Speaker 3: paid for it. So I said, there is no way
12:22
Speaker 3: that this story is going to survive and have someone
12:25
Speaker 3: else swoop in tell the story how they want to
12:29
Speaker 3: own the rights to the story. And then here the
12:31
Speaker 3: family is doesn't get any rights for the name or
12:34
Speaker 3: the story. You know, I was, it's it's just it's crazy.
12:37
Speaker 1: I love the title of the chapter, extraordinary just to
12:41
Speaker 1: be ordinary.
12:43
Speaker 3: Explain it so extraordinary just to be ordinary was kind
12:46
Speaker 3: of like that rule that maybe your family gave you
12:48
Speaker 3: that you got to work twice.
12:49
Speaker 4: As hard as to get half as much.
12:52
Speaker 5: You know, this is basics Thelamia Black family.
12:57
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, no, it's it's a thing that you're
13:02
Speaker 3: raised with.
13:03
Speaker 4: You know.
13:03
Speaker 3: My dad would always say, Doug, see is for garbage man,
13:07
Speaker 3: And I would say no, Dad.
13:08
Speaker 4: You know, Billy got to.
13:09
Speaker 3: See other people, and he's like, na, nah, Doug, Nana,
13:12
Speaker 3: you can't get a C. So I think extraordinary just
13:15
Speaker 3: to be ordinary was really the plight of these two men.
13:19
Speaker 3: Graduate are the only two officers in the United States
13:23
Speaker 3: of America and now they can't be in charge of
13:25
Speaker 3: anybody because the military is segregated. So their job was
13:28
Speaker 3: to go to black colleges and teach ROTC. So for
13:34
Speaker 3: four years they go to all these black colleges. And
13:36
Speaker 3: this is when the black graduation rate was under ten percent,
13:39
Speaker 3: so the literacy.
13:40
Speaker 4: Rate was low.
13:41
Speaker 3: They go to all these black colleges, two officers that
13:45
Speaker 3: should be in charge of people going into battle, and
13:48
Speaker 3: they're teaching military war college. But they didn't complain. They said,
13:52
Speaker 3: what we're gonna do is we're gonna tell these men,
13:55
Speaker 3: your black men, keep your chin up, keep your head up,
13:58
Speaker 3: focus on the dream, write a goal on the wall,
14:01
Speaker 3: and one day this country is going to call you
14:05
Speaker 3: and need your service. At the start of World War two,
14:09
Speaker 3: black pilots were needed and all those men that they
14:12
Speaker 3: taught ended up being the fifteen thousand Tuskie Airmen that
14:16
Speaker 3: went down to Alabama. And that was the creation of
14:19
Speaker 3: what the Tusky Airman became. So when I said extraordinary,
14:22
Speaker 3: just to be ordinary, you have to sometimes be ten
14:25
Speaker 3: times qualified just to get a job that you that
14:29
Speaker 3: someone else did with a different background that you just
14:32
Speaker 3: you know, they just walked right into it and you know, crazy,
14:34
Speaker 3: this is real life stuff. I mean, this is like
14:36
Speaker 3: all of us. You know, you see someone got ten
14:38
Speaker 3: PhDs and then this guy's like, oh yeah, but my
14:41
Speaker 3: uncle did it.
14:43
Speaker 4: You know.
14:44
Speaker 2: So what's your thought on military now and especially the
14:47
Speaker 2: way that they treated your family members and the way
14:48
Speaker 2: they've you know, consistently treated black military men. What's your
14:53
Speaker 2: thoughts on it now?
14:53
Speaker 3: I think the military is evolving, you know. I kind
14:56
Speaker 3: of look at it as like a heartbeat, you know,
14:57
Speaker 3: it just goes in and out, in and out. I
14:59
Speaker 3: think the military now is in the best place that's
15:01
Speaker 3: ever been. There's more people looking at this subject than
15:04
Speaker 3: ever before. There's more people talking about it, there's more
15:07
Speaker 3: eyeballs on it. But just like any big organization or institution,
15:11
Speaker 3: you know, more can always be done. But I think
15:13
Speaker 3: if you look at our Joint chiefs of Staff, General C. Q. Brown,
15:17
Speaker 3: you know, General Austin, you know, the top generals in
15:21
Speaker 3: the whole United States.
15:22
Speaker 4: Of America are are black men or men of color.
15:25
Speaker 3: So the military really has made a conscious effort to
15:29
Speaker 3: do better. And I think a lot of people are
15:31
Speaker 3: making an effort. I think the challenge is is that
15:34
Speaker 3: the receiver of the effort. The people that benefit the
15:37
Speaker 3: most always feel like everything's going too slow.
15:40
Speaker 4: Oh was it.
15:40
Speaker 3: Not moving faster? Oh by the time I do this,
15:43
Speaker 3: I'm going to, you know, be too old. So the
15:45
Speaker 3: military is trying to evolve, and I think that's all
15:48
Speaker 3: you could really ask. But I think it's our responsibility
15:51
Speaker 3: to also evolve it by bringing facts in stories that
15:54
Speaker 3: change the narrative. Black people in the military, their stories
15:58
Speaker 3: have been made invisible or have been a race, just
16:01
Speaker 3: like with you know, redlining. I mean, there's so many
16:04
Speaker 3: stories of all these different black communities flooded to become lakes.
16:08
Speaker 3: You know, you look at Central Park, I mean you
16:10
Speaker 3: look at all these different things and say, what everything
16:14
Speaker 3: keeps getting erased and deleted. So if we don't go
16:18
Speaker 3: back and ask our fathers and grandfathers and uncles and
16:21
Speaker 3: aunts what happened back in the day, we're never going
16:24
Speaker 3: to really get the real story. And then we have
16:25
Speaker 3: to take everybody at their word. And that word may
16:28
Speaker 3: have been skewed or biased based on the people who
16:30
Speaker 3: wrote the word, based on historians, based on what people
16:34
Speaker 3: chose to feel.
16:35
Speaker 4: What's valuable in writing?
16:36
Speaker 1: You know what?
16:37
Speaker 5: I love, man, I love the fact that you know,
16:38
Speaker 5: when you look at all the books that are being
16:40
Speaker 5: banned and you look at things like critical Race there
16:43
Speaker 5: and how they're really trying to erase so many of
16:45
Speaker 5: black people's contributions. This is why books like Invisible General
16:49
Speaker 5: are so important.
16:51
Speaker 1: How you feel about that?
16:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know? I actually it's funny enough.
16:54
Speaker 3: Shar I asked if I could have a book band
16:57
Speaker 3: meeting because I wanted to understand what constitutes a book.
17:01
Speaker 4: And I asked.
17:02
Speaker 3: I called everybody and we had a zoom and I said,
17:04
Speaker 3: excuse me, can I have I request a banned book meeting?
17:08
Speaker 3: And they all get on the phone and they were
17:09
Speaker 3: explaining to me, if you bring up a side of
17:12
Speaker 3: alternative history, then that could be considered to be a bandage.
17:17
Speaker 1: Alternative history. It's either history or is not.
17:19
Speaker 3: Well, that's right, but it's alternative to what is the
17:22
Speaker 3: general understood history that came out, So it's very subjective.
17:27
Speaker 4: Truth.
17:28
Speaker 1: Don't the truth about history.
17:30
Speaker 3: Don't be showing up here.
17:31
Speaker 4: With a new story that no one ever heard of
17:33
Speaker 4: and then try.
17:33
Speaker 3: To get it put into the schools. But the thing
17:36
Speaker 3: about the banned books, that's so wild, and think about it.
17:39
Speaker 3: We don't ban websites. We don't ban anything on streaming,
17:43
Speaker 3: but there's something about the book and something about the
17:48
Speaker 3: written word that everything stems off of that people want
17:51
Speaker 3: to ban. And it's just really odd for me. But
17:54
Speaker 3: the result of that meeting was they said that in
17:56
Speaker 3: the state of Florida, in the state of Texas, public
18:00
Speaker 3: schools and universities, sometimes public libraries may not actually carry
18:04
Speaker 3: the book due to the book band and it may
18:06
Speaker 3: actually end up on a list.
18:08
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
18:08
Speaker 4: Wow.
18:09
Speaker 5: In the book, you also say a father figure inspies
18:11
Speaker 5: his ment to achieve.
18:12
Speaker 4: I loved it.
18:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So Ben Davis Junior was really the
18:19
Speaker 3: many of the Tuski era and the ones that are
18:21
Speaker 3: still alive or you read stories, they looked at him
18:24
Speaker 3: as a father figure. And actually Ben Davis Junior had
18:28
Speaker 3: no biological kids of his own, but my dad was
18:30
Speaker 3: his oldest nephew, and when he found out his wife
18:33
Speaker 3: couldn't bear children, he wanted the same relationship with his
18:37
Speaker 3: son that his dad had with him, and they went
18:40
Speaker 3: to Connecticut and got my dad at seven, brought him
18:43
Speaker 3: down to Tuskegee, and my dad was raised by him
18:45
Speaker 3: and his wife Agatha, and I just look at that
18:48
Speaker 3: and say you don't have to do that. You know,
18:50
Speaker 3: you're you're fighting all these other people, you're doing all
18:53
Speaker 3: this work, and you still want to go and be
18:56
Speaker 3: that extra father figure. So that was really you know
19:00
Speaker 3: he said in my family, but also for all the
19:02
Speaker 3: Tuskegee Airman they always say if it wasn't for Ben Davis,
19:05
Speaker 3: you know, he would always say, you have to use
19:07
Speaker 3: the system to diffuse the system. And that was his
19:10
Speaker 3: big line to the men. Don't system. Yeah, system, I
19:14
Speaker 3: like that. Don't go out here trying to do too much.
19:17
Speaker 3: Just use the system to diffuse the system. First, you
19:20
Speaker 3: got to get in the system. Then once you're in
19:23
Speaker 3: the system, you got to have a voice. Then once
19:26
Speaker 3: you have a voice, then you get a vote. Once
19:29
Speaker 3: you get a vote, then you can make policy. And
19:30
Speaker 3: that could take twenty thirty years. But if you want
19:33
Speaker 3: to change the way things are, I mean it's our
19:36
Speaker 3: responsibility to do it.
19:37
Speaker 4: I love that.
19:37
Speaker 5: Let's talk about the million dollar Star chapter two, because
19:39
Speaker 5: you say sometimes you're tolerated but not celebrated. Other times
19:43
Speaker 5: you're celebrated but not compensated. Yea more important to celebrated
19:48
Speaker 5: or compensated.
19:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the million dollar star chapter I talk about.
19:53
Speaker 3: So Ben didn't get his fourth star in nineteen sixty
19:56
Speaker 3: seven under LBJ he retired in nineteen seven, he should
20:00
Speaker 3: have been a four star general. So thirty plus years
20:03
Speaker 3: go by. Luckily, Senator John McCain vouched after many, many
20:09
Speaker 3: attempts to get him his fourth star that he rightly deserved.
20:14
Speaker 3: So finally the bill passes. It was actually written into
20:18
Speaker 3: a defense bill and part of the part of the stipulation,
20:23
Speaker 3: there was two stipulations. Number one was you're gonna retire
20:28
Speaker 3: under You're gonna get the four star under retirement, so
20:31
Speaker 3: not active duty, which is standard. But number two was
20:34
Speaker 3: the family would not get one penny of compensation wow
20:39
Speaker 3: for the thirty years past or the years forward. And
20:43
Speaker 3: it caused a whole argument in the family, and his
20:45
Speaker 3: wife of over sixty years does not go to the ceremony.
20:49
Speaker 3: She says, we will not go. All the things the
20:53
Speaker 3: United States did to us, and you don't want to
20:56
Speaker 3: pay us, but you want to give us the star.
20:58
Speaker 3: So when I say go where you're celebrated, not tolerated,
21:01
Speaker 3: I really mean that. But then don't go where you're
21:04
Speaker 3: not compensated, because that happens every day. You know, people
21:08
Speaker 3: that are historically oppressed are paid with opportunity and lieu
21:12
Speaker 3: of money, and this is something that we have to
21:16
Speaker 3: make sure we tell our children, our family members. When
21:19
Speaker 3: you don't have any money, people pay you with opportunity,
21:22
Speaker 3: which is good and the opportunity it can, but you
21:25
Speaker 3: have to have that time and when you need that
21:28
Speaker 3: hand to mouth situation where you don't have that money,
21:31
Speaker 3: rants do car payment, et cetera, then you have to
21:34
Speaker 3: really do the best you can do. And then you
21:35
Speaker 3: feel like you're the opportunity is not confirmed, you know,
21:40
Speaker 3: it's like you just it's like the opportunity bank.
21:43
Speaker 4: Is it real? You know?
21:44
Speaker 3: And for you know, some people that have money, you
21:46
Speaker 3: can buy time. But if you don't have any money,
21:49
Speaker 3: opportunity is great, but it doesn't really mean anything without
21:52
Speaker 3: that money, but only stories.
21:53
Speaker 2: Listening to your family members in the military, did you
21:55
Speaker 2: ever want to go into the military?
21:58
Speaker 1: Hell?
21:59
Speaker 4: No, yo, and be listen. I can't do all that.
22:02
Speaker 3: I want to tell jokes and laugh and you know,
22:04
Speaker 3: shuck it up and like, hey, what's you guys doing
22:07
Speaker 3: when we're going out tonight?
22:08
Speaker 4: You know when we play in spades.
22:10
Speaker 3: I'm trying to do the like fun cool thing that military.
22:13
Speaker 3: When they said you got to get up, eat up,
22:15
Speaker 3: sit straight, iron, make your bed, I was like, WHOA,
22:18
Speaker 3: take it easy, Take it easy. I'm trying to go
22:20
Speaker 3: to college and live my college experience. I'm not trying
22:24
Speaker 3: to go to the military. They never promoted it good
22:27
Speaker 3: or bad. And I think sometimes when we talk about
22:30
Speaker 3: Veterans Day, we forget sometimes people aren't in the military,
22:33
Speaker 3: but they still live a veteran family life. But I
22:37
Speaker 3: can tell you one thing. I think the military it's
22:39
Speaker 3: a hard assignment. It's like West Point is like Harvard,
22:42
Speaker 3: but also with PT. You know, you still got to
22:44
Speaker 3: go through all the exercises and everything. But I'm not
22:47
Speaker 3: really trying to do all that. I'm trying to laugh
22:49
Speaker 3: it up, hang out with the fellas. You know what
22:51
Speaker 3: we're doing on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. You know, the
22:54
Speaker 3: military is like get one day off, quick, eat up,
22:56
Speaker 3: stand up, sit up. I'm like, oh, man, I can't
22:58
Speaker 3: do all that.
22:59
Speaker 1: So what do you hope people take from reading Invisible Generals? Man?
23:02
Speaker 3: I would like people to get from Invisible Generals. First off,
23:05
Speaker 3: we need to support our veterans and tell our stories
23:08
Speaker 3: of our veterans. And I think that's the main thing
23:12
Speaker 3: I want people to do is take a minute love
23:15
Speaker 3: thy veteran Regie Day, right around the corner Veterans Day.
23:18
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. We need to be out here
23:20
Speaker 3: loving the veterans, hyping them up, being positive, looking at
23:26
Speaker 3: them as not people running around and fatigues, but people
23:29
Speaker 3: all in the world CEO, CFO COOS. I think that's
23:34
Speaker 3: so important. And then the next thing I want people
23:36
Speaker 3: to take out of this book is I want everybody
23:39
Speaker 3: to own their own story. You have got to write
23:42
Speaker 3: your family stories, charlottmagne Envy everybody.
23:44
Speaker 4: You know we write.
23:45
Speaker 3: Memoirs sometimes, but sometimes you have to go back two
23:49
Speaker 3: or three generations, understand the jet fuel that your family
23:52
Speaker 3: worked for in that generational collateral, and see, can you
23:56
Speaker 3: actually continue something. You're not lost. You didn't just get
23:59
Speaker 3: dropped here. But I want people to take that time
24:02
Speaker 3: to look on their couch before their family members pass
24:04
Speaker 3: away and say, hey, you know what I'm saying, let's
24:07
Speaker 3: go out here. Let's learn about our family. Because I
24:10
Speaker 3: switched my career to become a diversity officer in Corporate
24:13
Speaker 3: America when I found out my family story. You know,
24:17
Speaker 3: I was working in LA for Magic Johnson and he
24:19
Speaker 3: was teaching me what diversity was. But I wasn't doing
24:23
Speaker 3: a diversity in a corporate environment. But the second that
24:26
Speaker 3: I found out my family story, I say, you know what,
24:29
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make sure I make those who are invisible
24:32
Speaker 3: visible in corporate environments. And that was because I asked
24:35
Speaker 3: the people on my couch what they lived through. So
24:37
Speaker 3: if there's one thing to take out of it, that's
24:40
Speaker 3: what it would be.
24:40
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Veter's Day is eleven eleven.
24:43
Speaker 3: That's right, right, eleven eleven at one eleven, that's the
24:46
Speaker 3: time World War One ended.
24:48
Speaker 5: So make sure to do something great for a veteran
24:51
Speaker 5: this week. And I've said this a million times. I
24:52
Speaker 5: hate how this country treates veterans. There's nothing I hate
24:56
Speaker 5: more than seeing somebody who's fought for this country on
24:59
Speaker 5: the side of the road with a sign begging for change.
25:01
Speaker 1: Like I feel like veterans should get free room and board.
25:04
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I think they should get free health care, and
25:06
Speaker 5: I think they should get a stipend every month to
25:07
Speaker 5: you know, take care whatever they need to take care of.
25:09
Speaker 4: So yeah, and especially mental health.
25:11
Speaker 3: Absolutely, you know the amount of veterans that commit suicide,
25:15
Speaker 3: the amount of veterans that are homeless, and you know,
25:17
Speaker 3: their benefits get cut off, their work skills may not
25:20
Speaker 3: be tight. So I think, you know, we could all
25:23
Speaker 3: just learn a lot and realize that you know, their
25:25
Speaker 3: experience was just five minutes ago. But we do need
25:28
Speaker 3: to do something for the veterans. And today's election day,
25:32
Speaker 3: Veterans Day is is just coming up this weekend, So
25:34
Speaker 3: try to do something.
25:35
Speaker 4: What are you doing anything?
25:38
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like I do a lot. I
25:40
Speaker 1: don't want to say that, but I do. I like
25:41
Speaker 1: for the veterans all the time.
25:43
Speaker 4: But I don't.
25:44
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm down, you know, other than just providing money
25:47
Speaker 5: and resources. Yeah yeah, but if I try to do
25:49
Speaker 5: that's that's mainly what I try to do. Like I
25:50
Speaker 5: cannot pass somebody who I know fault for this country
25:54
Speaker 5: and not give them twenty.
25:56
Speaker 1: Dollars, fifty dollars something. Yeah, you know, like like in
25:59
Speaker 1: talking about not.
26:00
Speaker 5: Invisible man, how can you be in traffic or just
26:03
Speaker 5: walk by somebody in the street who told you I
26:05
Speaker 5: fought in this war, I fought in that way you
26:06
Speaker 5: just ignored them like namn.
26:09
Speaker 3: And then you know what it's crazy. You ignored them
26:11
Speaker 3: to go to the charity event. You know, you'd be like,
26:15
Speaker 3: hey man, we going downtown. We got the big charity event.
26:18
Speaker 3: Everybody's dressed up. But then in the meantime you are not,
26:21
Speaker 3: you know, helping the people that are right there in
26:23
Speaker 3: front of you.
26:24
Speaker 1: What awesome things we could do.
26:26
Speaker 3: I think the first thing is right there. You know,
26:29
Speaker 3: if you see somebody with a sign, you know, it's
26:32
Speaker 3: all you know. Everybody has their own way that they
26:34
Speaker 3: donate money. But I think the first thing is give
26:36
Speaker 3: money to a veteran. Number one, Give time to a veteran.
26:40
Speaker 3: Number two, if you have any opportunity to donate time.
26:44
Speaker 3: I think number three is go to a VFW, which
26:48
Speaker 3: is a veteran, a foreign war outpost outpost, go to
26:51
Speaker 3: the VA hospital, Read to a veteran, talk to a veteran,
26:55
Speaker 3: ask them if you could cook for them. You know,
26:57
Speaker 3: there's so many different ways. There's millions and millions and
27:00
Speaker 3: millions of veterans. I mean we're really not even when
27:03
Speaker 3: I talk about, you know, corporate diversity. I mean, veterans
27:06
Speaker 3: don't really get that level of shine or opportunity that
27:11
Speaker 3: other people get, you know, kind of when you look
27:13
Speaker 3: at all the different areas that companies support, but veterans
27:16
Speaker 3: in America in particular, it's a huge, huge opportunity. And
27:19
Speaker 3: I think number one even acknowledge a veteran have a party,
27:22
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, and you go home, you
27:24
Speaker 3: get the cake, you know, just like it's a birthday.
27:26
Speaker 3: Hype it up, give it the love, give it some
27:29
Speaker 3: you know, gas on it, you know, remix it. I mean,
27:31
Speaker 3: I don't see no veterans day parties at the club.
27:33
Speaker 4: You know, we could do that too.
27:35
Speaker 3: We got a veteran playlist, you know, I don't know.
27:37
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, do whatever hits.
27:39
Speaker 1: You know.
27:39
Speaker 2: But yeah, for me, it's a story like you know,
27:41
Speaker 2: my dad for in Vietnam. So so my dad's a VET.
27:45
Speaker 2: So for me is I try to take the kids
27:48
Speaker 2: to hear his stories, you know, because you learn so much,
27:50
Speaker 2: and it's so much, you know, like my dad who's
27:53
Speaker 2: a VET and police officer, You hear so many stories.
27:55
Speaker 2: But it's those stories that tell us how things were,
27:58
Speaker 2: you know, good or bad. You know what he had
28:00
Speaker 2: to deal with and and and all.
28:01
Speaker 1: The things that he did.
28:02
Speaker 2: My dad doesn't fly now because when he was in
28:04
Speaker 2: the military. He flew planes and he fixed planes. So
28:07
Speaker 2: because that now he won't eff planes at all. He like, nah,
28:10
Speaker 2: I go to Florida, will drive like he's that type
28:13
Speaker 2: of person, like he just is, and he tells the
28:15
Speaker 2: reason why he tells it, you know, the reason of
28:17
Speaker 2: g for us and how it feels to be in
28:19
Speaker 2: those type of planes. So those stories are stories that
28:22
Speaker 2: I can't tell my kids because I was never in
28:23
Speaker 2: the military. You can't tell the kids, but they can
28:25
Speaker 2: only get from Grandpa, you know what I mean. And
28:27
Speaker 2: that's that's what we try to do every.
28:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's really really important. And I think the
28:32
Speaker 3: other thing is talking about the homeless veterans. You know,
28:36
Speaker 3: when you say the word invisible, it's invisible maybe to
28:39
Speaker 3: some people, but it's very visible to the person living
28:42
Speaker 3: it absolutely. You know, we say invisible generals, but the
28:46
Speaker 3: black newspapers cover him all day every day, but the
28:48
Speaker 3: mainstream didn't cover him. So what is visible and invisible?
28:52
Speaker 3: That guy sitting on the corner. We may all be
28:54
Speaker 3: walking over him, but he sees other of him all
28:58
Speaker 3: over the city and says, there's tons of us. How
29:01
Speaker 3: come no one can see it? So it's visible to
29:03
Speaker 3: some but then invisible to others.
29:06
Speaker 5: You well, make sure y'all go pick up his Visible Generals.
29:09
Speaker 5: It is available everywhere you buy books right now. You
29:13
Speaker 5: can go to Bonds and Nobles, you can go into
29:14
Speaker 5: the Bond and Double bookstore, local bookstores. Invisible Generals Man
29:18
Speaker 5: the latest release off my book in print, Black Privilege
29:20
Speaker 5: Publishing with Simon and Schuster, Atri and Simon and Schuster.
29:23
Speaker 1: So Doug, thank you, brother Doug Littleville, thank you man.
29:26
Speaker 3: I appreciate you and where can they find you?
29:28
Speaker 4: And I want to just.
29:29
Speaker 3: Thank you, Charlett Mane for believing in the story absolute
29:32
Speaker 3: and actually saying that you were the one who was
29:34
Speaker 3: gonna help me tell this story, because it's so important
29:38
Speaker 3: to realize. Without people like you helping these stories get
29:41
Speaker 3: out into the world, the story doesn't exist, you know
29:43
Speaker 3: what I mean. It was really you that stepped up.
29:46
Speaker 3: And I just appreciate you so much because every single
29:50
Speaker 3: thing counts, and every single decision helps one at a time,
29:54
Speaker 3: and it's like each one teach one. So I appreciate
29:56
Speaker 3: you so much for believing in the story and my family,
29:59
Speaker 3: and you.
29:59
Speaker 1: Know it's just the beginning.
30:01
Speaker 3: Man.
30:01
Speaker 1: We got documentaries, books.
30:02
Speaker 3: Movies, Yeah, we got all that were getting paid. What's good,
30:07
Speaker 3: where's that cheese, Doug.
30:11
Speaker 1: It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning.
30:13
Speaker 4: Wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club