Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / ‘Drunk’ Kim Kardashian look-a-like kills mother of six just visiting her preemie-twin-girls : Cops

Transcript

‘Drunk’ Kim Kardashian look-a-like kills mother of six just visiting her preemie-twin-girls : Cops · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
0:08
Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. The thirty seven year old mother
0:12
Speaker 1: of six who just gave birth to twin daughters about
0:15
Speaker 1: eight weeks ago, was returning home around midnight after visiting
0:18
Speaker 1: the babies at a hospital when she was tragically killed
0:20
Speaker 1: and a suspected d u I crash that night. I
0:24
Speaker 1: knew she was on her way home, and when she
0:26
Speaker 1: wasn't home when I thought she should be home, I
0:27
Speaker 1: got worried. Investigators are still awaiting toxicology results, but say
0:31
Speaker 1: they suspect a twenty one year old female driver may
0:33
Speaker 1: have been impaired and slammed head on into Evans's car
0:36
Speaker 1: after losing control while side swiping another vehicle. We had
0:40
Speaker 1: people here when I told the kids that their mom
0:43
Speaker 1: was gone, and that was really important because every kid
0:46
Speaker 1: needed a hug, and I could only really hug one
0:48
Speaker 1: at a time. A young mother was on her way
0:53
Speaker 1: home from visiting her premature twin daughters still in the hospital.
1:01
Speaker 1: She was heading home to her other four children to
1:04
Speaker 1: take care of them when tragedy strikes. A drunk Kim
1:12
Speaker 1: Kardashian look alike enters the scene and now mommy is dead.
1:20
Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace. This is Crime Stories and we want justice.
1:26
Speaker 1: Joining me right now. Dr Chloe Carmichael, psychologist and founder
1:30
Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot Com. Also with me, Crime Stories
1:35
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Drew Nelson, and Alan Duke joining me from
1:39
Speaker 1: l A. Drew Nelson, I want to start at the beginning.
1:44
Speaker 1: What happened years old? She I. We suppose she's been
1:49
Speaker 1: out drinking or who knows what she'd been doing. What
1:52
Speaker 1: we do know is that her blood alcohol content level
1:56
Speaker 1: point to one. Now the legal limit is point zero eight.
2:01
Speaker 1: That's about equivalent of one beer, almost three times over
2:05
Speaker 1: the legal three times the legal limit. And she goes
2:08
Speaker 1: out driving, she loses control over car. Women. Not only
2:11
Speaker 1: does she lose control, Drew Nelson, you're right about that,
2:14
Speaker 1: she actually jumps the central median. That's how bad she's
2:20
Speaker 1: out of control. I mean, Alan, do true. I may
2:23
Speaker 1: have run into a curb here and there, but jumping
2:27
Speaker 1: the median, I don't mean when you find out you're
2:30
Speaker 1: going the wrong way and you secretly get over the
2:33
Speaker 1: media a little bit like maybe you know six inch tall.
2:37
Speaker 1: I'm talking about a big concrete median design specifically, so
2:44
Speaker 1: this exact thing wouldn't happen. She jumps the media alan,
2:48
Speaker 1: that's how drunk she is, right across the center medium.
2:51
Speaker 1: This is Golden Valley Road near Santa Clarita. This is
2:54
Speaker 1: just maybe fifteen miles from where I'm sitting right now.
2:58
Speaker 1: You know that's a huge median. It's there for a
3:01
Speaker 1: reason to stop exactly this type of crash from occur,
3:05
Speaker 1: you know, typically, Dr Chloe. I don't know what kind
3:07
Speaker 1: of driver you are. I know you're a premier psychologist,
3:11
Speaker 1: but you know, when you you know, you tap into
3:14
Speaker 1: something like you back and you know immediately and you
3:17
Speaker 1: veer away or stop your car. But this woman was
3:20
Speaker 1: so out of control, this Kim Kardashian look about. I mean,
3:24
Speaker 1: I'm not even going to comment on the sucked in cheeks.
3:29
Speaker 1: You know how when you take a self you go
3:32
Speaker 1: and you know, do a power I'm trying to do
3:34
Speaker 1: it right now so you can hear it. But it's
3:36
Speaker 1: like all sucked in with a giant implanted lips, the
3:41
Speaker 1: puffed up trout pout that the hair parted down the middle,
3:45
Speaker 1: long black Morticia looking hair. She's got the whole Kardashian
3:51
Speaker 1: thing down pat except for the driver that would have
3:55
Speaker 1: avoided this, this this kind of a crash. Dr Chloe,
3:59
Speaker 1: when you're so out of your gored you jump over
4:01
Speaker 1: a concrete median into oncoming traffic. What's that telling you, doctor, Well, obviously, Nancy,
4:08
Speaker 1: it's somebody who is completely inebriated, you know, beyond their
4:12
Speaker 1: capacity to meet good decisions. But of course she actually
4:16
Speaker 1: did make the decision to put alcohol into her body,
4:20
Speaker 1: so I believe that she needs to be held accountable.
4:23
Speaker 1: Joining me right now is Cheryl McCullum, not only director
4:28
Speaker 1: of the Coal Case Institute, but former president of Mothers
4:32
Speaker 1: Against Drunk Driving Georgia. Cheryl, you know this fact has
4:36
Speaker 1: never escaped me since you told me this many years ago.
4:41
Speaker 1: When a drunk driver is caught one time how many times?
4:48
Speaker 1: That is not the first time they've driven drunk. Absolutely,
4:52
Speaker 1: you're right. They've driven on average eleven times intoxicated before
4:57
Speaker 1: their stopped the first time. So this is a habit
5:01
Speaker 1: of this perpetrator. I mean, NA said, they drive drunk
5:04
Speaker 1: all the time. That's how they get where they're going.
5:06
Speaker 1: It's not a one time thing. And you're talking now
5:10
Speaker 1: about a woman that has left six children without a
5:16
Speaker 1: mother for what for two beers, for three beers, for
5:22
Speaker 1: six martinis. Whatever this woman chose to have. When she
5:25
Speaker 1: got in the car, she took somebody's mother. This is
5:30
Speaker 1: a habit, and again she has rendered six children's motherless.
5:37
Speaker 1: Those precious premature babies. She won't hold them, she won't
5:43
Speaker 1: feed them, she won't have that bonding moment that they
5:48
Speaker 1: so desperately needed. And she did this for what, Cheryl,
5:52
Speaker 1: do you remember when the twins were born? Just throw
5:56
Speaker 1: me that shower where all the cops and investigators and
6:00
Speaker 1: everybody from the d a's office showed up. We had
6:03
Speaker 1: this great baby shower, and little do we know almost
6:06
Speaker 1: you know, immediately after that, I would go into emergency
6:10
Speaker 1: cesarean and Lucy was only two pounds, barely two pounds.
6:17
Speaker 1: These two little girls um the victim in this case.
6:22
Speaker 1: We're one pound each. And her husband, yes, I know,
6:27
Speaker 1: she's the mother of six. I wish I was the
6:30
Speaker 1: mother of six, Cheryl. I know it sounds crazy, but
6:33
Speaker 1: I am so in love with the twins. I would
6:35
Speaker 1: just love to expand it. This woman, according to her husband,
6:39
Speaker 1: had waited fifteen years to have these children, two baby
6:46
Speaker 1: girls one pound each. You know how much they need
6:50
Speaker 1: their mother. They need round the clock care when they
6:54
Speaker 1: get home from the hospital. At least my twins did
6:56
Speaker 1: ground the clock. Remember my mission us to keep them alive?
7:01
Speaker 1: Right and now no mom, no mom? And they need
7:07
Speaker 1: that find they need that mother, and the they just do.
7:13
Speaker 1: And Nancy again she did this for what for drinks?
7:18
Speaker 1: Six drinks? Okay, so six martini, seven beers? You rend
7:24
Speaker 1: their six children's muggless? You know? To Dr Chloe Carmichael,
7:29
Speaker 1: psychologist and creator of Anxiety tools dot com. Dr Chloe,
7:33
Speaker 1: why is it driving me so crazy to look at
7:36
Speaker 1: the selfish she keeps taking of herself all dacked out
7:39
Speaker 1: like Kim and Kardashian. Why that is just really getting
7:43
Speaker 1: under my skin? And look she's she's a beautiful young girl,
7:49
Speaker 1: the drunk driver. But the I guess it's the self
7:55
Speaker 1: um congratulation, the self absorption of all of these photos.
8:03
Speaker 1: When I know what has happened, and I can certainly
8:05
Speaker 1: understand why the seutheast would drive you crazy. As you said,
8:09
Speaker 1: it really suggests in this particular case, somebody who's actually
8:13
Speaker 1: quite selfish, who doesn't have any empathy or regard for
8:18
Speaker 1: other people, and who's literally making reckless um you know,
8:22
Speaker 1: life ending choices for other people. So of course those selfies,
8:27
Speaker 1: UM drive you crazy. It's totally understandable, you know. Also
8:31
Speaker 1: to Drew Nelson, Crime Stories investigative reporter, the mom was
8:36
Speaker 1: thrown from the car and was pronounced dead immediately by
8:39
Speaker 1: first responders. I know she has four other children that
8:44
Speaker 1: she was on her way home to take care of.
8:47
Speaker 1: She's got four other boys, twelve year old Spencer, eleven
8:52
Speaker 1: year old Travis, nine year old Nathaniel, and two year
8:58
Speaker 1: old Gideon. You know, and I can speak to nine
9:02
Speaker 1: year old how much they need their mom, because you know,
9:06
Speaker 1: you think they need to when their babies and you're
9:09
Speaker 1: changing their dipes and you're getting formula and milk down
9:13
Speaker 1: them and teaching them to walk, and but really as
9:16
Speaker 1: they get older and Carroyline know you agree with this,
9:19
Speaker 1: they need you even more as they're navigating the world
9:23
Speaker 1: and they're coming home from school upset or there's a bully,
9:26
Speaker 1: or there's this, or there's that. They don't even remember
9:29
Speaker 1: you changing those dipies. So Drew, I think I understand now,
9:34
Speaker 1: Drew Nelson, why she's been waiting fifteen years. She finally
9:38
Speaker 1: had girls. She's got four boys, she finally these little girls. Yeah,
9:44
Speaker 1: and she's only been able to visit them at the
9:47
Speaker 1: hospital up until this point. You know, they've only been
9:50
Speaker 1: born just weeks earlier. Sarah and Hannah, these little girls,
9:56
Speaker 1: and you know what it's like to be waiting on
9:59
Speaker 1: twin and here she is having to go to the
10:02
Speaker 1: hospital to visit them, uh, and then go home to
10:05
Speaker 1: the boys. And what I have just I've been discovering
10:10
Speaker 1: about this, this crash is just horrific. The woman we've
10:14
Speaker 1: been talking about, the twenty one year old elect messina Um,
10:19
Speaker 1: she had containers of alcohol in the car, according to
10:23
Speaker 1: the car to the police, there were open containers. Cheryl
10:26
Speaker 1: McCollum with me, former president of Mad Mothers Against Drunk Driving,
10:30
Speaker 1: Georgia way In on what you're hearing. I really want
10:33
Speaker 1: to hear your take on this. Of course she did, Nancy.
10:36
Speaker 1: This is one crime that is so selfish. This is
10:41
Speaker 1: not somebody that shop lift for Christmas presents for their
10:45
Speaker 1: children because they're broke. This is not somebody that steals
10:48
Speaker 1: food because they're hungry. This is somebody that willingly has
10:52
Speaker 1: total and complete disregards for whoever might be in their path.
10:57
Speaker 1: They don't give a dance, they're gonna get in the
11:00
Speaker 1: car and they're gonna drive. Of course you had alcohol.
11:03
Speaker 1: And the other thing that is so just despicable in
11:06
Speaker 1: disgusting is, of course she's fine. She's not injured at all.
11:10
Speaker 1: It's never the drunk driver. They get out like, what
11:13
Speaker 1: what's happened? Why is that? Why do they never get hurt?
11:17
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum. Every d u I manslaughter that I've ever seen,
11:21
Speaker 1: which by the way, I don't think it should be manslaughter,
11:23
Speaker 1: which I'm gonna get to. They're always fine, and so
11:27
Speaker 1: is the innocent victim that dies. Why is that? Well,
11:30
Speaker 1: one answer that I've been given is because they're so
11:33
Speaker 1: relaxed because they're drunk, they're wasted, so they're just cruising
11:37
Speaker 1: around barely even you know, so when they crashed, their
11:40
Speaker 1: body is so relaxed they just have no injury where
11:44
Speaker 1: the other person tenses up and bones break and you know,
11:48
Speaker 1: they suffer horrific damage. It's just one of the pathetic
11:52
Speaker 1: ironies of this crime, you know. And another issue. People
11:57
Speaker 1: always call it an accident, but I, as I have
12:01
Speaker 1: told many many juries Cheryl McCullum, it is no accident.
12:06
Speaker 1: It is a crash, and I say it's a murdering.
12:09
Speaker 1: This is my reasoning. You decide to go to a
12:12
Speaker 1: bar and drink, you know what, fine, that's your decision.
12:17
Speaker 1: But then you decide to fish through your pocketbook and
12:20
Speaker 1: find your car keys. Then you decide to get another drink.
12:24
Speaker 1: Then you manage to get off that bar stool and
12:26
Speaker 1: head to the car. Then you decide to unlock it,
12:29
Speaker 1: open the door and get behind the driver's seat. You
12:31
Speaker 1: know you've been drinking. You decide to crank it up,
12:35
Speaker 1: put it reverse, ease out and put it in drive.
12:38
Speaker 1: You decide to get out on the highway. That's your decision,
12:44
Speaker 1: all calculated decisions. And the law, says Cheryl McCullum, as
12:50
Speaker 1: you and I have both said before, the law presumes
12:54
Speaker 1: you intend the natural consequence of your act. In other words,
12:59
Speaker 1: if I were to take a piece of fine china
13:02
Speaker 1: and throw it to the cement floor, I couldn't then say, well,
13:06
Speaker 1: I meant to throw it, but I didn't mean for
13:07
Speaker 1: it to break. The law presumes you intend the natural
13:12
Speaker 1: consequence of your act. So if you get in the
13:16
Speaker 1: car drunk and start driving on a busy a three way,
13:20
Speaker 1: why do you think's gonna happen, Cheryl, And they think
13:23
Speaker 1: there's not one person at her age that did not
13:26
Speaker 1: have something in her high school, something in her middle
13:28
Speaker 1: school where they you know, teach there. They have you know,
13:32
Speaker 1: drun this into people about point oh eight and drinking
13:35
Speaker 1: and driving in the danger. She knew it, she didn't care,
13:40
Speaker 1: and now she's the murderer as far as concerned. I
13:43
Speaker 1: want you to listen to what her husband and aerospace
13:46
Speaker 1: engineer has to say, who's now raising six children, four
13:52
Speaker 1: boys and two premature baby girls still in the nick
13:57
Speaker 1: you Neo natal intensive care unit. Now what he has
14:02
Speaker 1: to say about losing his beautiful wife that night was hell.
14:07
Speaker 1: I knew she was on her way home, and when
14:10
Speaker 1: she wasn't home when I thought she should be home,
14:12
Speaker 1: I got worried. We had people here when I told
14:15
Speaker 1: the kids that their mom was gone, and that was
14:20
Speaker 1: really important because every kid needed a hug, and I
14:23
Speaker 1: could only really hug one at a time. I'm sure
14:26
Speaker 1: she's gonna watch over them for the rest of their lives.
14:28
Speaker 1: There's still so much good in this world and we
14:31
Speaker 1: are seeing at firsthand, and I think that is the
14:33
Speaker 1: thing that's sustaining me. Right now to Dr Chloe Carmichael's
14:37
Speaker 1: psychologist and Vandervan's Anxiety tools dot com. What do you
14:42
Speaker 1: think this dad is going through right now? I cannot
14:47
Speaker 1: even imagine, Oh, Nancy, Um, it must just be as
14:51
Speaker 1: you said, I must be on what we can comprehend.
14:53
Speaker 1: Because a man has an innate desire to protect and
14:58
Speaker 1: to care for women. That really something that mother nature
15:01
Speaker 1: and evolutionary or evolution kind of programmed into men. And
15:06
Speaker 1: that's actually heightened when the woman has given birth because
15:11
Speaker 1: you know of a lot of complex reasons with evolutionary psychology,
15:14
Speaker 1: but she's actually helping to pass on his genes at
15:17
Speaker 1: that particular moment. So, Um, in terms of evolutionary psychology,
15:21
Speaker 1: he has a heightened sense of protection. And then just
15:24
Speaker 1: through being socialized of course as well, his wife has
15:27
Speaker 1: just given birth, he has a naturally heightened desire to
15:30
Speaker 1: protect and shelter her. So for this to happen at
15:34
Speaker 1: this particular moment, when he was soaring in the heights
15:37
Speaker 1: of you know, basking and being for the sixth time
15:40
Speaker 1: now father with this woman, and they had four older
15:43
Speaker 1: boys and now they have these two little girls, every
15:46
Speaker 1: protection bone in his body was amplified at the moment
15:51
Speaker 1: of this terrible um. You know, as you're saying, just
15:55
Speaker 1: what what feels in many ways almost like a murder
15:57
Speaker 1: of somebody that just took a huge each piece of
16:00
Speaker 1: steel and and drove it into her car and and
16:03
Speaker 1: had her thrown into the air and violently killed. UM.
16:07
Speaker 1: So the type of anguish and loss as well as
16:11
Speaker 1: anger that he must be feeling right now is almost
16:15
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18:20
Speaker 1: twenty one year old drunk Kim Kardashian look alike crosses
18:24
Speaker 1: the Median at point two one slams into a mother
18:29
Speaker 1: of six on her way home from visiting her premature twins.
18:33
Speaker 1: That she had waited fifteen years to have, mother of
18:36
Speaker 1: six premature twin girls on her way home to the
18:39
Speaker 1: other four children when tragedy strikes. Is it true? Drew
18:42
Speaker 1: Nelson Crime Stories investigative reporter that she also hit another vehicle.
18:47
Speaker 1: She hit two cars that night, two cars, and then
18:51
Speaker 1: as she collided with the mother of six, who knows
18:55
Speaker 1: how fast she was going at that time. I mean
18:58
Speaker 1: imagine miles an hour, just just plus twenty five for
19:03
Speaker 1: the other car, that's a fifty four, and this this
19:08
Speaker 1: mother of six is thrown from the car. You know, Cheryl,
19:11
Speaker 1: she was almost home, and I know that doesn't mean anything. Probatively,
19:16
Speaker 1: it doesn't prove anything. She was one mile from home.
19:21
Speaker 1: How tired do you think she was, Cheryl, just trying
19:24
Speaker 1: to get home. She's taking care of four boys, that's
19:28
Speaker 1: not the easiest, and the husband's working full time in
19:33
Speaker 1: the aerospace field. Her lifelong dream of having girls finally happens,
19:39
Speaker 1: and she couldn't wait to take care of them. At
19:43
Speaker 1: the hospital still in intensive care and is driving home
19:48
Speaker 1: one mile. She almost made it, Cheryl, You know, needsy
19:53
Speaker 1: they always tell you within that five mile radio. So again,
19:57
Speaker 1: that tells you that this criminal was in a residential district.
20:03
Speaker 1: She had no care or concerns who was in her path.
20:07
Speaker 1: It could have been an elderly person, it could have
20:09
Speaker 1: been a handicapped person, it could have been a small child.
20:12
Speaker 1: She did not care. And horrifyingly, it's a mother of
20:17
Speaker 1: six that was doing nothing wrong. She was doing everything
20:23
Speaker 1: in the world right. What does it say to you,
20:26
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, former director of Mothers Against Drunk Driving Georgia,
20:30
Speaker 1: that she had open containers e r s that's plural
20:34
Speaker 1: of alcohol in her car. You can't wait to get
20:38
Speaker 1: home or to a bar. You got a drink in
20:40
Speaker 1: the on the way. Yeah, she's an alcoholic and everybody
20:42
Speaker 1: in her social group knows it, and her family knows it,
20:45
Speaker 1: and they're gonna try to deny it. But she drank
20:47
Speaker 1: till she blacked out. This has been going on since college.
20:51
Speaker 1: And you know, this is probably not the first run in.
20:54
Speaker 1: She's probably had feeding, she's probably had rentless driving. She
20:57
Speaker 1: may or may not even have a d U. I
20:59
Speaker 1: but I and telling you she has driven drunk more
21:03
Speaker 1: than once, because again, this is a woman that by herself.
21:08
Speaker 1: She's not in the car with six people where she's
21:10
Speaker 1: partying and they're all headed to spring break. She's alone
21:13
Speaker 1: and she's a point to one. The legal limit is
21:17
Speaker 1: point oh eight. She wouldn't even trump almost three times
21:23
Speaker 1: the legal limit. You know. The other day, UH dragged
21:28
Speaker 1: the twins to go walk our crazy munt dog fat
21:31
Speaker 1: boy with me and John David. You know, all the
21:36
Speaker 1: boys were the baggy pants and so he had these
21:39
Speaker 1: big baggy shorts on and he put a water bottle
21:41
Speaker 1: in each bottle in each pocket, which made him go.
21:45
Speaker 1: You know, they were like hanging down. I'm like, what
21:47
Speaker 1: are you crossing the Sahara? You gotta have two water
21:49
Speaker 1: bottles forty minutes you can make it, okay, be strong son,
21:55
Speaker 1: And I'm just thinking it just strike. She has to
21:58
Speaker 1: have two can to piners of booze at least, because
22:02
Speaker 1: they say containers to get from what her house to
22:06
Speaker 1: the gas station or the bar to the house, or
22:08
Speaker 1: the house to the bar, she can't make it there
22:10
Speaker 1: without down some booze. Cheryl the Coe probably going to
22:13
Speaker 1: the bar, Nancy. This is how she travels. I'm telling you.
22:16
Speaker 1: When she leaves her house, she's got her flask or
22:19
Speaker 1: whatever the container is that she's got open. And this
22:22
Speaker 1: is how she's going to Walmart. This is how she's
22:24
Speaker 1: going to get her nail done. This is how she lives.
22:28
Speaker 1: She's a drunk and and you know you're talking about
22:31
Speaker 1: three times a legal limit. She should serve three times
22:35
Speaker 1: what a normal person with her she needs to go
22:38
Speaker 1: to pun. Know what, Cheryl, I'm afraid you and I
22:40
Speaker 1: really just seem too much of this world because um
22:43
Speaker 1: not that I want to leave, don't get me wrong, Lord,
22:46
Speaker 1: But when you said flask, do you know what John David,
22:50
Speaker 1: my son who's nine, said. He goes, Mom, I want
22:53
Speaker 1: a flask, And I'm like, what's the flask? Of course
22:56
Speaker 1: I knew it was, but I was hoping he didn't know.
22:59
Speaker 1: You know, you put stuff in it to drink. I'm like, son,
23:04
Speaker 1: why do you want a flask? And he went, Mom,
23:08
Speaker 1: I want to put cold milk in it. And it
23:12
Speaker 1: took all of my strength not to start laughing. And
23:17
Speaker 1: you know what I did? Right when when the next
23:20
Speaker 1: place we were at Target, So I don't know where
23:22
Speaker 1: we were. We saw flask and like looke, John Davi,
23:23
Speaker 1: there's flask. We were in the hardware store and they
23:26
Speaker 1: had him for like campers or something, and I got
23:28
Speaker 1: him a flask. He came home. He didn't even clean
23:31
Speaker 1: it out, Mike, did you clean it out first? Even? No,
23:34
Speaker 1: he poured milk in it started. And I think where
23:39
Speaker 1: he saw it was on Harry Potter. I don't know
23:41
Speaker 1: how much you watched it, but we've read them all
23:43
Speaker 1: and watched them all, and mad I mood he drinks
23:46
Speaker 1: from a flask all the time. And John David saw it,
23:48
Speaker 1: decided put milk. And so when I and you and I,
23:56
Speaker 1: you know, we just him. And when Cheryl is spouting
23:59
Speaker 1: all this information out, it's because she We've done it
24:02
Speaker 1: so many times. I mean, come on, Jackie here in
24:08
Speaker 1: the studio, when you go to Target or Walmart, wherever
24:12
Speaker 1: you go, do you carry two bottles of booze just
24:16
Speaker 1: to make it to walk? I mean, I wouldn't even
24:19
Speaker 1: think of it. And she's right, this is how she rolls.
24:22
Speaker 1: But you know what we're we're talking lightheartedly about flasks
24:26
Speaker 1: and Walmart and Target and Polly juice potion and Harry Potter,
24:32
Speaker 1: Let's bring it all home, Alan, Please, let's hear one
24:35
Speaker 1: more time Katie Evans husband. That night was hell. I
24:42
Speaker 1: knew she was on her way home, and when she
24:45
Speaker 1: wasn't home when I thought she should be home, I
24:46
Speaker 1: got worried. We had people here when I told the
24:50
Speaker 1: kids that their mom was gone, and that was really
24:54
Speaker 1: important because every kid needed a hug and I could
24:58
Speaker 1: only really hug one at a time. I'm sure she's
25:00
Speaker 1: gonna watch over them for the rest of their lives.
25:03
Speaker 1: There's still so much good in this world, and we
25:05
Speaker 1: are seeing it firsthand, and I think that is the
25:08
Speaker 1: thing that's sustaining me right now. For those who wish
25:11
Speaker 1: to help the family of Katie Evans, Drew Nelson, Crime
25:16
Speaker 1: Stories Investigative Reporter, Is there a way we can help?
25:20
Speaker 1: Look at the website you caring dot com This that
25:25
Speaker 1: shows a picture from from happier times, the four boys,
25:29
Speaker 1: dad and mom. The girls aren't in the picture because
25:33
Speaker 1: they haven't been able to come home yet, but there's
25:36
Speaker 1: six children on this website you caring dot com and
25:40
Speaker 1: look for the Evans Family Accident Expense Fund. And if
25:47
Speaker 1: you can't contribute that way, I'm sure they can use
25:50
Speaker 1: your prayers. And now we go to Panola County, Mississippi
25:56
Speaker 1: and one of the most horrific cases Court Watches have seen,
26:01
Speaker 1: which in the last hours has resulted in a mistrial.
26:06
Speaker 1: It's all about a young cheerleader, Jessica chamber As a
26:11
Speaker 1: cheerleader all the way through high school, who was literally
26:15
Speaker 1: burned alive. The evidence has pointed to the defendant, Quentin
26:22
Speaker 1: tell Us, who admits he was with her throughout the evening,
26:27
Speaker 1: on and off. Their text messages are playing a major
26:32
Speaker 1: role in this investigation where he continually via text message,
26:38
Speaker 1: pressured her to have a romantic relationship. Well, I'm putting
26:42
Speaker 1: that ephemistically. I'm definitely putting perfume on the pig. He
26:47
Speaker 1: was pressuring her for sex over and over and over,
26:50
Speaker 1: and you can see on the text messages where she
26:54
Speaker 1: kept saying no, no, no, leave me alone, no no no.
27:01
Speaker 1: Then how is it that they are alone in her
27:05
Speaker 1: car by his own admission up until seven thirty p m.
27:10
Speaker 1: The evening, she is doused with gasoline and set on fire.
27:16
Speaker 1: What somebody else comes along in that thirty minute window
27:20
Speaker 1: from the time he left her and the time she
27:22
Speaker 1: spotted on the side of the road, burning alive. That's
27:25
Speaker 1: kind of hard for me to believe. To Shane Dieter,
27:29
Speaker 1: joining us assignment editor with W A. T. And Shane,
27:32
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Let's start at the beginning.
27:36
Speaker 1: What happened the night that Jessica Chambers was spotted by
27:40
Speaker 1: a motorist wearing nothing but her underwear. Her bra had
27:44
Speaker 1: melted off her body, asking for help. What happened? Cool
27:49
Speaker 1: Hely Uh former fire chief of that area, was the
27:54
Speaker 1: first person on seen in uh Cole at the time,
27:58
Speaker 1: said that he that's just Jessica. Who she was. He
28:03
Speaker 1: described how she would looked. Wait a minute. He told
28:07
Speaker 1: the jury that the moment he saw her, he knew
28:11
Speaker 1: it was Jessica Chambers. It's a very low population. Everybody
28:15
Speaker 1: knows each other. And she comes out of the woods.
28:18
Speaker 1: Her car is on fires, totally destroyed by fire, out
28:21
Speaker 1: in a field. She comes walking up along the roadway
28:28
Speaker 1: on fire, and he knows it's Jessica Chambers right then
28:35
Speaker 1: and there. Right He asked her her name to verify it,
28:39
Speaker 1: and her answer, of course, you gotta remember she was
28:42
Speaker 1: on fire. She's in incredible pain, she said, Jessica timbers
28:48
Speaker 1: and obviously couldn't speak correctly. Mark Tate also with me,
28:53
Speaker 1: veteran multi state defense attorney practicing out of the Savannah jurisdiction. Mark,
28:59
Speaker 1: when I spoke to the father, which I did in depth,
29:02
Speaker 1: he told me that at the time, doctors believed the
29:07
Speaker 1: perpetrator had poured gasoline or lighter fluid down her mouth
29:12
Speaker 1: and throat. That's how badly her insides were burned. She
29:18
Speaker 1: could hardly terrific, which becomes very important later on. So
29:23
Speaker 1: she they couldn't even understand when she tried to say Chambers,
29:26
Speaker 1: it sounded like something completely different. Why is that so
29:29
Speaker 1: significant that she can't speak? Mark take The reason that significant,
29:33
Speaker 1: Nancy is this dying declarations carry a lot of evidentiary weight,
29:39
Speaker 1: especially in this instance. And so she identified later a
29:43
Speaker 1: name of the person who set her on fire, and
29:47
Speaker 1: people who were interviewing her said it sounded like she
29:49
Speaker 1: said tell Us or Eric or something along those lines.
29:53
Speaker 1: And so as a result of that dying declaration, law
29:57
Speaker 1: enforcement proceeded to conduct interviews of numerous people who had
30:01
Speaker 1: those names and ruled them all out. And so the
30:04
Speaker 1: notion is that her, gosh, it's just unbelievable that her
30:09
Speaker 1: mouth and tongue and teeth were so destroyed that she
30:13
Speaker 1: couldn't speak correctly. But that the word that she said
30:17
Speaker 1: was so close to the name of the man who
30:21
Speaker 1: clearly had contact with her throughout the evening and day
30:25
Speaker 1: and has evidence of having harassed her for sex. The
30:30
Speaker 1: name sounds close enough, and so that's the argument to
30:33
Speaker 1: the jury. I think it's a good argument, and I
30:35
Speaker 1: think the judge was correct in letting that evidence in
30:38
Speaker 1: as a dying declaration to let the jury determine whether,
30:42
Speaker 1: in fact she identified her her killer. I've got no
30:47
Speaker 1: one word. You're so right, Mark, take Shane Deeter joining
30:51
Speaker 1: me as Sigmon editor w A t in, Shane, when
30:55
Speaker 1: the far she've got there, as you were just telling us,
30:58
Speaker 1: I mean the woman she can't talk. She's been on fire.
31:04
Speaker 1: In fact, every square inch of her body was burned
31:07
Speaker 1: except for the soles of her feet and her rear
31:11
Speaker 1: end where she had been sitting in the car where
31:14
Speaker 1: I think she was raped in the car myself, because Shane,
31:18
Speaker 1: isn't it true that tell Us himself says they quote
31:24
Speaker 1: had sex in the car, Yes, Nancy, he said that
31:27
Speaker 1: they had sex in the passenger seat of her car,
31:30
Speaker 1: and so how is it, Shane Deeter, that all these
31:34
Speaker 1: text messages where she's saying no, no, no, no no,
31:38
Speaker 1: and then she apparently gives him a ride. Next thing
31:41
Speaker 1: you know, whoops, they're having sex and now she's dead.
31:43
Speaker 1: It sounds to me more like she was raped in
31:46
Speaker 1: the car and he had to get rid of her
31:50
Speaker 1: or else she would report the rape and she ends
31:52
Speaker 1: upset on fire. Now, Shane, what happened? Mark tate Uh,
31:57
Speaker 1: the multi state defense lawyer, was describing some of the facts,
32:01
Speaker 1: But what happened when the fire chief spoke to her?
32:04
Speaker 1: At first, Nancy, he said he was trying to get
32:06
Speaker 1: her help and all that. He said that he couldn't
32:10
Speaker 1: understand the name that she said, which everyone has said
32:15
Speaker 1: in testimony, she said Eric. He said that he had
32:19
Speaker 1: his ear down to her mouth he couldn't understand it.
32:22
Speaker 1: And then a couple of days later, when he was
32:24
Speaker 1: doing his written statement, then he said she said Eric.
32:29
Speaker 1: So eventually he said he couldn't. Yeah, he asked her,
32:33
Speaker 1: who did this to you? And she tried to say
32:36
Speaker 1: a name, a single word, and he said it sounded
32:39
Speaker 1: like Eric. Here's the fire chief. What was this person
32:44
Speaker 1: wearing when I said her. She had nothing on them
32:49
Speaker 1: with her bands and what did you tell me you did? You?
32:54
Speaker 1: You gotta blanket. I got it out and I gotta blanket.
32:57
Speaker 1: And she had her arms out, was coming to with
33:00
Speaker 1: me saying help me, help me, help me, Nicole. I
33:04
Speaker 1: want you to describe for this jury what type of
33:06
Speaker 1: what did she look like? What was the condition of
33:08
Speaker 1: Jessica Chambers? Her hair was her hair was fried out,
33:24
Speaker 1: like she's stuck in the light socket, and she had
33:32
Speaker 1: black all over her face. Her body was severely burned
33:38
Speaker 1: and just all the way down her body was was
33:44
Speaker 1: it was very badly burned, and proceeded a layer down
33:49
Speaker 1: on the ground. She reached out from I am. I
33:57
Speaker 1: held onto her hand and I talked to her and
34:05
Speaker 1: asked her her name, and she said what come out like?
34:09
Speaker 1: I said, her mouth inside her mouth was just charred black.
34:17
Speaker 1: And could not understand her very well at all. Were
34:25
Speaker 1: you able to get a name? When I asked her
34:28
Speaker 1: her name, she said Jessica Chambers. And hey, like I said,
34:38
Speaker 1: she was not recognizable to me. I know what Jessica
34:42
Speaker 1: Chambers looked like. Did not look like Jessica Chambers at
34:45
Speaker 1: the time. Now describe her voice for the jury. How
34:50
Speaker 1: is it coming out? When you were talking to her?
34:52
Speaker 1: It was very gargled and just dry. I mean, you know,
35:00
Speaker 1: I was. I was face to face with her, and
35:06
Speaker 1: she uh, like I said, he could he could barely
35:11
Speaker 1: understand her. And she she kept asking for water, and
35:18
Speaker 1: and I I knew in my mind she didn't need water.
35:23
Speaker 1: I knew that was not the best, you know, not
35:26
Speaker 1: to give her water. Held her hand beside her and
35:32
Speaker 1: asked what happened? And she told me she said, I
35:37
Speaker 1: was set on fire again. It was her voice clear,
35:42
Speaker 1: it was not not clear, Like I said, you know,
35:49
Speaker 1: some words come. You were able to tell what they
35:54
Speaker 1: were plainly, but it was not clear. Year, if it
36:01
Speaker 1: makes sense, did you ask her? Who did this? Her?
36:04
Speaker 1: I asked her, I said, who did this? She tried
36:08
Speaker 1: to say a name. I could not understand the name,
36:12
Speaker 1: but it sound like anything to you. I could. I
36:15
Speaker 1: couldnot make out anything to what she said. The only
36:21
Speaker 1: time I heard a name was after uh Daniel Cole
36:28
Speaker 1: got on sing Medstet got there, and I believe the
36:31
Speaker 1: deputy was there, and they had turned her head away
36:37
Speaker 1: from and they had started taking to her up and
36:43
Speaker 1: they kept question or you know who did this? Who
36:48
Speaker 1: did this? Who did this? And then I heard them say,
36:55
Speaker 1: like I said, I never personally, I never heard her
36:58
Speaker 1: say a name. M They went on though, the first responders,
37:03
Speaker 1: there were eight of them, plus the chief, and they
37:05
Speaker 1: said that they couldn't understand what she was saying. The
37:10
Speaker 1: emergency equipment was blaring in the background, all these fire
37:15
Speaker 1: trucks then and police, all these people were there, and
37:18
Speaker 1: she couldn't speak, and she was barely whispering. And then
37:22
Speaker 1: they said they couldn't make out the word. But Mark,
37:25
Speaker 1: take let me compare it to the moment in court
37:28
Speaker 1: when Orenthal James Simpson O J. Simpson held up the
37:31
Speaker 1: glove which was dried blood, soaked with dried blood and shrunken,
37:37
Speaker 1: and he pulls it over his fingers that let's just
37:39
Speaker 1: say the top digits and says it doesn't fit, and
37:44
Speaker 1: that one thing was the lynchpin and the not guilty verdict.
37:50
Speaker 1: That one moment, and that's how I say, well, I'm
37:52
Speaker 1: saying about this dying declaration just like I know, darn
37:56
Speaker 1: well that was his glove because Nicole Brown bought it
37:59
Speaker 1: for I mean, there's a proof of that, plus a
38:01
Speaker 1: receipt and a picture of what she bought him. It's
38:03
Speaker 1: that glove, okay. And I know in this case the
38:08
Speaker 1: drama of a dying declaration where she allegedly said Eric.
38:13
Speaker 1: I think she was trying to say tell us, but
38:17
Speaker 1: they thought she said Eric. They didn't know the name
38:19
Speaker 1: tell Us, and so they figured they deciphered she said Eric,
38:23
Speaker 1: and that is what hung this jury up. I'm telling you, well,
38:27
Speaker 1: first of all, let me about the Simpson trial. I
38:30
Speaker 1: think there was a whole lot going on there besides
38:34
Speaker 1: the gross prosecutorial mistake of crying the jury show. I
38:39
Speaker 1: think we had a judge. You and I both know
38:42
Speaker 1: never do a demonstration. You have not practiced, But I
38:46
Speaker 1: think I agree with you. But the judge let the
38:50
Speaker 1: defense team run rampant, and I think that he was
38:54
Speaker 1: impressed with the celebrity status of his trial, and I
38:58
Speaker 1: think that he and the way he conducted that trial
39:00
Speaker 1: contributed in large part. There's no question that the prosecutors
39:04
Speaker 1: made a tragic error, and boyd they paid for that
39:07
Speaker 1: tragic error and continue to in their careers because they're
39:11
Speaker 1: never going to live that down. Similar to this case,
39:15
Speaker 1: I think we have a judge, you made it one
39:17
Speaker 1: mistake and I'll talk about that when you're ready. But
39:19
Speaker 1: the things that you have gone over about whether the
39:22
Speaker 1: police chief could hear her at the time she was
39:25
Speaker 1: making her dying declaration or whether he remembered it later,
39:29
Speaker 1: whether the first responders who had the sirens blaring with
39:33
Speaker 1: them could not understand it here. Yeah, that's all good.
39:37
Speaker 1: That's great evidence for the defense to put on and
39:42
Speaker 1: cross examine these witnesses with in order to create a doubt.
39:47
Speaker 1: And that is listen, it's it is circumstantial evidence. It
39:53
Speaker 1: is something that should be examined in questions. Well, yeah,
39:57
Speaker 1: but I think you're right to start with I think
39:58
Speaker 1: the judge should have allowed the dying declaration. And you
40:01
Speaker 1: can't keep something like that out. You'll get reversed on appeal.
40:04
Speaker 1: If they thought she said Eric at the time, the
40:06
Speaker 1: jury has a right to know that. You can't wrote,
40:08
Speaker 1: you know, sweeping under the rug. They thought she said Eric.
40:11
Speaker 1: In retrospect, they realized that's not what she's saying, because,
40:15
Speaker 1: I mean, the other evidence is so overwhelming. Dr Chloe Carmichael,
40:20
Speaker 1: Psychologists joining US and founder of Anxiety tools dot Com.
40:25
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, I mean, let's take a look at Quentin
40:30
Speaker 1: Tell us his own words. First of all, he changed
40:33
Speaker 1: his story multiple times. Finally, the story he decided to
40:38
Speaker 1: go with was that he was with a friend of
40:40
Speaker 1: his the whole night. Well, of course police find the friend.
40:43
Speaker 1: The friend says, what, I wasn't even in the state.
40:46
Speaker 1: I was out of the state that night. I've been gone.
40:48
Speaker 1: So he's lying blatantly. He admits he had quote sex
40:54
Speaker 1: with Jessica. Well, we know that he had been rebuffed
40:59
Speaker 1: over and over and over the states. Theory is that
41:02
Speaker 1: he quote had sex I call raped her and asphyxiated
41:07
Speaker 1: her in the car. That then he had to get
41:10
Speaker 1: rid of the evidence. So he goes to his house,
41:14
Speaker 1: where he admits he keeps a five calin drum of gasoline,
41:19
Speaker 1: and he's caught on surveillance video leaving the house where
41:24
Speaker 1: the shed is with the gas and within fifty minutes
41:27
Speaker 1: she's on fire. I mean, oh, also, Dr Chloe. He
41:31
Speaker 1: deletes all the texts from his phone that referenced to Jessica. Now,
41:37
Speaker 1: why would you do that? If my husband, which is
41:40
Speaker 1: not I don't want this, has some kind of an accident,
41:43
Speaker 1: I don't run to my phone and delete every text
41:46
Speaker 1: from him. Why would I do that? Well, you're absolutely right,
41:49
Speaker 1: Nan stiff feels like a coordinated pattern here. Um, so
41:54
Speaker 1: of course, why why would he lie to the police
41:57
Speaker 1: in the first place. So right there, he's and streating
42:00
Speaker 1: a disregard for law and order, and of course the
42:04
Speaker 1: idea that he would have sex with her and then
42:06
Speaker 1: be seen getting a five gallon jug of gasoline. Um,
42:10
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't seem like it's that difficult to understand. Um,
42:14
Speaker 1: you know what what he was saying leaving the spot
42:17
Speaker 1: with where the gas can had been. I mean, you can't,
42:21
Speaker 1: you don't know what he's got with him. But I mean, yeah,
42:25
Speaker 1: Dr Chloe, I mean, what what do you need a
42:28
Speaker 1: video of him killing her? Well, I agree completely, and
42:33
Speaker 1: I mean there's also the fact that you know, behavior
42:35
Speaker 1: does often tend to occur in patterns, and from what
42:38
Speaker 1: I understand this, Quentin verdel tell Us is also currently
42:43
Speaker 1: under investigation for another murder because he was using the
42:46
Speaker 1: credit card of a woman that that was murdered as well.
42:50
Speaker 1: So it seems like he certainly has a pattern of
42:53
Speaker 1: being involved around you know, women who are murdered, dead women,
42:58
Speaker 1: dead women. You know, Dr Chloe Carmichael, psychologists joining us,
43:03
Speaker 1: You just read my mind. I guess you're clear voyant
43:06
Speaker 1: to boot because Shane Deeter joining us from w A
43:11
Speaker 1: t N. The fact is he's also facing trial in
43:15
Speaker 1: Louisiana for the murder, the torture slaying of a graduate
43:21
Speaker 1: student there. Her name was seeing Low and she was
43:28
Speaker 1: brutally stabbed multiple times. Then after she was stabbed. Oh,
43:33
Speaker 1: and many of those stabs, Shane were torture stabs in
43:37
Speaker 1: other words, like slicing her down the arm to try
43:40
Speaker 1: to get information about her pass code for her a
43:43
Speaker 1: t M. Then after she gives it up, she's murdered.
43:47
Speaker 1: And he, it's absolutely proven by photographic evidence, uses her
43:52
Speaker 1: a t M card repeatedly after she's dead. So there
43:57
Speaker 1: you go. There's another dead woman everywhere he goes. As
44:00
Speaker 1: he leaves a trail of dead bodies. He is he
44:02
Speaker 1: is a bad guy. I mean, she was an exchanged
44:04
Speaker 1: student from Tailan. She was at the University of louis
44:08
Speaker 1: Anna Monroe. And he now sits in Washington Parish jail
44:13
Speaker 1: there and that's where he was when February of two
44:17
Speaker 1: thousand and sixteen he got the indictment for the murder
44:20
Speaker 1: of Jessica Chambers. Well, the jury has hung. The jury
44:24
Speaker 1: has hung regarding Jessica Chambers. But Mark Tate, it ain't
44:28
Speaker 1: over yet. They're going to retry him on that. What
44:30
Speaker 1: do you think they'll do any differently second time around? Mark, Well,
44:34
Speaker 1: first of all, this will allow me to comment on
44:37
Speaker 1: the judge. And you know, it's dangerous for a trial
44:39
Speaker 1: lawyer to say something negative about a judge. But at
44:43
Speaker 1: least from what has been reported about the charge he
44:46
Speaker 1: gave the jury, this judge did not charge correctly. He
44:50
Speaker 1: told the jury that they had to have a unanimous
44:53
Speaker 1: verdict for a guilty verdict, but he did not tell
44:56
Speaker 1: them what it had to be unanimous for a or
45:00
Speaker 1: not guilty verd And so he corrected that charge when
45:04
Speaker 1: the when the jury came out and said they're deadlocked,
45:07
Speaker 1: and then they came back and could not resolve it enough.
45:10
Speaker 1: If I recall correctly, it was a seven five. It
45:13
Speaker 1: was seven five in favor of guilty. And at first
45:15
Speaker 1: they came out twice with verdicts. The first time they
45:19
Speaker 1: said not guilty because they thought you had to be
45:21
Speaker 1: unanimous on guilty, and if you weren't unanimous on guilty,
45:25
Speaker 1: then it just automatically was not guilty. They did not
45:28
Speaker 1: understand the law. But all that you're you're absolutely right
45:31
Speaker 1: on the law as usual, Mark take. But to me,
45:34
Speaker 1: it's neither here nor there now because there was a
45:37
Speaker 1: hung jury, so there's not gonna be an appeal, there's
45:39
Speaker 1: gonna be a retrial. Then tell you this, They better
45:43
Speaker 1: be ready and hit that digital evidence and hit it hard,
45:48
Speaker 1: because there's no way in h E double l that
45:50
Speaker 1: this guy was with her at seven thirty five and
45:55
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock she's running down the road or approaching
45:58
Speaker 1: the road almost Nate hit on fire and she's with
46:03
Speaker 1: him fifteen minutes before. Uhh, yeah, I would quit. They
46:06
Speaker 1: got to hit the timeline in the digital evidence. I mean,
46:08
Speaker 1: I think that's the strongest case i've If I were
46:11
Speaker 1: a prosecutor, I would uh sich a question whether I
46:16
Speaker 1: wanted to get into the evidence where the dying decoration
46:20
Speaker 1: seemed to be shifting and somewhat sought Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
46:27
Speaker 1: signing off Goodbye friend,