Latest / Career Catalyst / Ep 7. Alison Blair: Value over Velocity
Transcript
- Rory: Hi everybody, welcome to the Career Catalyst Podcast, episode seven. This is Rory Devine, and today we have Alison Blair. ⁓ you can find us on the ITCareAcademy.com. You can find us on our LinkedIn page at IT Career Academy. ⁓ our YouTube page is the Career Catalyst Podcast. You can also follow us on Instagram at the Career Catalyst Podcast. ⁓ today we have a great friend of mine, Alison Blair. ⁓ I worked with her first at the NFL. ⁓ then she moved over to another company at the Fanatics. ⁓ we had a professional relationship at the NFL, then we started to become friends, and just when we started to hang out, she took her horse, Diablo, and went up north to Roku, ⁓ out of Los Angeles. So I had to get her on ⁓ to talk about ⁓ her career. It's been just a a wonderful Alison Blair: Ha ha. Rory: Wonderful get to know her as a professional and as a person. And I thought that she could share her career arc for all of you people who are entering the career ⁓ right now, looking to be in the entertainment, sports, and the project management space. ⁓ she is one of the best to do it. And I've worked with a lot of PMs in my life, and I don't say that lightly. But Alison, welcome. Thank you to the Career Podcast and thank you for coming on. Alison Blair: Thanks for having me. ⁓ I this is my first podcast, guys. So I'm excited about it. give me some grace as a newbie. ⁓ and it's true, the minute Rory and I started hanging out, I moved. but I'm glad he's still willing to hang out with me and talk to me here. So looking forward to it. Rory: South Bay to North Bay, just when things were starting to get good, you you moved north, but Alison Blair: Kind of. That's when things are starting to get good. But that's the that's the beauty of all of this. Things things stay interesting. You never know where your life or career is gonna take you. Rory: Why I thought you'd just be a great fit for this podcast, especially right now in the market. You are on the front lines of sports and entertainment, ⁓ recently part of a new acquisition that was announced at your current employee, but also just the project and product management of it all for those of the people who wanna get into the this space ⁓ in their career, even if they are not CS majors, but they do see themselves ⁓ in the project management space. ⁓ You are also a professor at Harvard and UCLA grad school for project management, if I have that correct. ⁓ so I thought you would just be just a an excellent source of intel on for someone entering the market and trying to get into the project managed space. Is that correct? Alison Blair: Right. ⁓ I think that's a great place to start. ⁓ and all all your facts are pretty much correct. ⁓ I do teach at Harvard University ⁓ in the Agile Project Management. I'm also a frequent workshop guest speaker, guest lecturer, and professor at UCLA Extension, ⁓ where I've been doing entertainment project management classes, ⁓ agile project management classes, AI for project management, which is super hot right now and a lot of exciting things going on. Rory: Awesome. Alison Blair: on so just like you I'm always trying to stay fresh and get to know more people and find out what others are doing and you know, just trying to be around like minded people who are staying on the cutting edge of all the things that are happening. Rory: ⁓ major through line of this podcast for every successful person that has been on it, ⁓ being curious and staying curious throughout their careers and just getting better throughout. So that's really great to hear that that is consistent with this one. So Alison, let's start there. ⁓ you are teaching students. ⁓ what would you say right now is the biggest ⁓ change over the last three years in product or project management that you are trying to level set expectations with the up and coming emerging class that you're educating, especially at Harvard. Alison Blair: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, in the industry I've been in, technology and media, we've seen a lot of industry consolidation in the last few years, kind of starting, you know, twenty-one, twenty-two, where we started to see a lot of media companies consolidate, ⁓ different tooling platforms consolidate. And this was sort of expected in the in the post COVID era that things had that had been very fragmented would start to merge and you know, and my recent company has or my current company ⁓ has just entered into a merger with Fox. ⁓ and so we're gonna see a lot of this ⁓ coming down the pipeline. I think you're also gonna see a lot of roles starting to converge where previously very hard lines might have been drawn between like design and engineering and product management and program management. You're starting to see those lines blur a little bit more. ⁓ They were always a little bit blurred, you know, in smaller companies, but you're starting to see them kind of come together and some of those roles converge in larger companies, ⁓ where designers can now do front-end code if they want to. you know, where project managers can go write PRDs ⁓ and do more product management work and vice versa. And so some of these roles I think will start to collapse ⁓ in the future. ⁓ we're very much sort of building the future right now as we're flying the future, if you guys know that and all it's. I heard it recently and I was like, this is right. Like everything we're doing, we don't know what we don't know, but we're doing it anyway. And you know, we're gonna see where it takes us. So be prepared for some of roles that have been traditionally very separated to start to merge and start to think about like what does that look like for you? Like, where would you expand beyond your comfort zone if you were given the opportunity where someone was to give you more scope, whether that be the ability to start vibe coding, you know, within your current organization, do some energy. engineering work, even if even if it's not what you thought you could do. If you could do it now, if someone gave you that magic wand, what would it look like for you? Rory: That's that's great advice. And you are seeing ⁓ the collapse. You know, I I think Xerox, who hasn't been considered ahead of the fold and a lot, recently just changed. They were the first to do it, right? A member of the technology department or technology commerce. I think that's becoming now the the new title for everyone. Is is that is that kind of that is a real thing now. Alison Blair: A real thing. I I'd also also say to new grads or anyone who's going back to school or even just thinking about changing careers, which I'll raise my hand, I've done more than once in my life. Try not to chase titles too much. I think a lot of people that get very caught up in chasing titles because they think titles always means more money or it means something else on your resume. And it doesn't always. ⁓ and that's probably one of like the best pieces of advice I would give you. ⁓ you know, always optimize for am I learning something new? ⁓ Is my skills going to grow in this role? Is my scope going to be bigger in this role than it was maybe in my prior role? That actually resonates a lot more with employers and will actually drive more value for you as a person than it than just a specific title because titles are very different from organization to organization. It's very it can be extremely apples and oranges. So don't be afraid to apply for certain things because it has a title, but also don't ⁓ don't deny yourself the opportunity to apply for something because it has a title that you might not like. ⁓ really look hard at the scope and I would say it's even more important now as roles start to merge, titles might be murky for a while and that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. Rory: Yeah, I'm I'm seeing it just I see everything through the prism of the resourcing, ⁓ resource management or staffing angle. And ⁓ the idea of an IC right now and management, is there really a difference? 'Cause even if you are an IC and coding, ⁓ you are managing agents, right? So there isn't really an IC piece. It's it's really the how you look at it and how you approach it. And and and from my side, when it comes to a product manager or a project manager, when someone comes to me, I'm really looking for motivation and someone who can maybe see something from wire to wire, who has this follow through, and the motivation to actually do it. ⁓ and and that's that's really in personal network and getting to know people. So that that is kind of what I'm seeing as well ⁓ from my side of the fence. So that's that's really ⁓ pertinent. Alison Blair: Yeah, I mean I I think accountability is really the core at the core of it. Whether you're a people manager, a manager of agents, people are looking for hiring people that will be accountable. And whether that's accountable for, you know, human direct reports or now accountable for the success and the quality and the maintenance of of an agent, that is also on you as well as an individual contributor or manager. ⁓ that you're gonna have to grow that agent. You may have to sunset. That agent, you know, you may have to kill it and get a different one, and people are gonna start to judge you on the quality of you know. Just like they ⁓ would judge you on the quality of ⁓ you know, a paper you wrote, they may judge you now on the quality of the agent that you have created and now passed along to others. ⁓ and I don't think it's anything to be afraid of, but it is something that is a new paradigm. We're all gonna have to make that mental shift. This is a this is like a net new responsibility ⁓ that is coming out in the workplace now. Rory: Yeah, the grow it, steer it, or kill it is ⁓ and that's interesting. That's like a it's it's really becoming an avatar of your work. Okay. That that's that's good to know. ⁓ so Alison Blair: Pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. And just yeah, just remember ⁓ you know, if you're interested in AI, we're only three years or so into the LLM LLM world. ⁓ so if you compare it to like anything digitally, phones, you know, mobile apps, things like that, there's still a long road ahead. we're still in we're still really in the infancy, I believe, of of what we're gonna what we're gonna see. Rory: And what's ⁓ I wanna that that's really good zoom out right there. And I think ⁓ one question I wanna ask you is as you said, you you've been on the the front lines of a lot of sports entertainment and mergers and acquisitions. ⁓ you know, NFL, NFL Network merging with Disney. You went over to ⁓ FUBO TV, ⁓ who was also part of a merger. Then there was also Fanatics, which in itself entirely is a conglomerate built on acquisition. Alison Blair: Right. Yeah. Rory: Yeah, right. There's just a bunch of different companies all kind of sewn together under one umbrella. ⁓ I believe, ⁓ based on where we're going in the economy and what we've seen recently, especially under this administration, there's gonna be a lot more ⁓ and A. ⁓ and consolidation as you said it. So what kind of advice would you give undoubtedly a lot of the people listening to this who are younger in their career are going to encounter acquisitions. You've been through a lot, you've survived, you are better for them, and now you are teaching the youth. So what would you say to them during an acquisition period or maybe an MA if you're the acquirer or the company getting acquired? ⁓ you know, w what kind of advice do you have for a younger person just getting getting their career started in that in that kind of culture? Alison Blair: Yeah. That's a great question. You know, I think I have survived quite a few. ⁓ I am better for it, actually. I always you always feel stronger, I think, coming out of having been part of an acquisition. You know, it's almost like going to the gym, you know, you don't want to deal with it, but then afterwards I like ⁓ I I feel stronger because I went. And it's a little bit like that and it's a little bit of there's always growing pains whether you're the acquirer or the acquiry ⁓ think the important thing is to really stay always positive and focused on the goal. ⁓ people want to work with positive people, right? People want to work with good coworkers. There's a lot of value in being somebody, somebody who's adaptable and easy to work with. I think those are very underrated skills that we don't teach and we don't necessarily talk about. ⁓ but being, you know, easy to work with goes a long way and being adaptable goes a long way. And you're gonna have to embrace that ⁓ with mergers because you are gonna meet people of different cultures. Every company has a different culture. And sometimes those cultures even go beyond just work culture. They could be you're acquiring, you know, a company that is in a different country, and now you have language barriers and other human resource barriers and ⁓ you know just totally different philosophies on work in general. ⁓ and so I wouldn't say you don't want to thrust your culture necessarily on day one into someone else's culture. You really want to take the time to find those sort of common threads. threads between your company and in you know and the other company you're working with and really build on that. I think that's my best that's my best advice. ⁓ people tend to get very nervous, you know, during acquisitions. It's also one of those things where Again, stay positive, you know, ask questions, stay curious, be open to the possibilities, try to find the synergies, try to find the common denominators of what you can do together. ⁓ focus more on that than on the negatives, right? Like you have to believe that, you know, one plus one equals three when these companies come together. And hopefully that will get you through it. Rory: That's great. Yeah. I think negativity is always a self fulfilling prophecy. And ⁓ I I agree. People want to work with people who are positive, the problem solvers, and they're actually trying to make the best of it. And you know, one thing too, ⁓ you know, nothing's personal. You know, if there are layoffs or rifts after an acquisition, no one's looking at that specific person a lot of times. It's just a redundancy on a paper and they're and a ledger and they're making it happen. So I think being positive and knowing that, that's really great. And don't make any unforced errors is kind of what I'm hearing as well. And ⁓ ⁓ you know, if if you are trying to solve problems, ⁓ especially with collapsible roles in this market right now, well, maybe there's something for you if you are able to find a niche or if you're able to be accountable and get things done. Alison Blair: Yeah. You wanna be accountable, you wanna get things done, you wanna find the synergies, you wanna find the positives. You also don't wanna create problems where there aren't any, which happens many times in mergers as different people get together and you know, all of a sudden, you know, there's there's conflict where you don't necessarily have to have it. You know, even if it emerges down the road, it's not it's not the way to start a new relationship. So again, I would yeah, I would say that. I was like, don't don't have a self fulfilling prophecy. Right? It can sometimes it can go actually much better than you expect, ⁓ if you kind of just take it one day at a time. Rory: Got it. And you so you are that's really that's great. I I think the positive attitude is always right. So for the the younger people listening, ⁓ did you go to school to become a PM, although you are now teaching PM? Did you go to school? When did you know you wanted to be one? How did you kind of I know you from your NFL career on, but how did you start your career? How did you kind of ⁓ fold into the the PMO ⁓ Alison Blair: Yeah. Rory: kind of side of things to get started. Because I think that's a really very important part. That's where a lot of people's inflection point is right now. Alison Blair: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. my career has not been linear at all, which is also something I tell my students all the time when they're asking for career advice. I'm like, go into it assuming your career will not be linear. Careers generally are not linear, and it's okay to take some twists and turns and some backtracks and like you went through the wrong light, but that's okay, you got to the next light. Like it really is okay. I went to school, I studied media ⁓ and communications. I wanted to work in the broadcast industry. I thought I wanted to be a TV producer. Or did a bunch of internships in college, found that I really liked all the behind-the-scenes stuff that was going on in TV. Didn't want to necessarily be in front of the camera, but loved all the like detail stuff behind the scenes, the locations and the permits and the budgets and the hiring and just kind of bringing all those different forces together behind the scenes to create something. I just thought was really cool and powerful. And so it sort of naturally folded into project management. even though that's not specifically what it was called, but it was sort of like this behind the scenes management of media productions. and you know, and just again through trial and error. I tried media sales. I did a media sales internship once. I was like, I'm not a salesperson, I'm not good at this, but it was cool to try, you know. ⁓ I did like entertainment research and things like that. And I was like, this is fun, but you know, I don't don't love it. And so it's kind of naturally found, you know, my skill set really was making things happen behind the scenes. And as you'll find as you if you decide to become a project manager or a product manager, the really good ones, that's what they do. They make things happen behind the scenes. And when things are going well, it's almost like they're invisible. But they're like that invisible glue. It's just there and when things are working, that's kind of how you know that like there's sort of magic happening behind the scenes. Rory: Yeah. I think ⁓ you know, ⁓ you're hearing all these things project management or PRDs are dead and then and then everyone's just builders now and I still think that glue alignment and ⁓ identifying where like the where the what needs to get pushed and what buttons to push ⁓ are always gonna be kind of what defines the task of a project manager. And from working with you personally and and I can say this, ⁓ if there was something that I was derelict on my duties or I was late on getting something done, Allison will get it done. She will step up and do it, even though it's not her responsibility, which again is something you said earlier into accountability for project management. So ⁓ you know, and to your point, positivity. I don't think she's trying to cut your legs out from under you or get someone else's job. She's literally just wants to get things done and move things forward. And I think that's like an invaluable skill set. So kudos to you on that that I've noticed in my in my travels with you. Of course. Alison Blair: ⁓ thank you. Something that's really important ⁓ as we, you know, enter this world of AI and I know people are nervous about what does this mean for my job? I'm a product manager and now all these things are automated. Same thing for projects, same thing as for engineering. I think everybody needs to take a step back and dial it back and also remember like what were they here to do in the first place? Right? What was the essence of your job? Right? What was the original goal of your job? Not necessarily the tasks you do day to day, like, you know, sending the follow-up, scheduling the meeting with Rory, following up with Rory, you know, doing all these other things, but like w what were you really there to do? What is the essence of a product manager or a program manager? And you know, it is driving customer value, it is listening to your customers, it is bringing people together, it is getting that alignment, it is using your brain and using good judgment and all the other stuff, like scheduling meetings and you know writing documentation, all those things, they're important, but they're mostly a means to an end. And so if you dial it back and say, well, what's the value this job brings in general, that is still true. Like we still need the humans that drive value and can use their brains and good judgment to make good decisions that build good products or build good services. Like that that's not changing. The how in which we do it, by using different AI tools, ⁓ using more automation, that is evolving rapidly, but not the essence of what we were brought here to do in the first place. Only the way in which it's kind of being handled day to day. And I think that's just really important for everybody to hear that's worried about their role is take a step back and think what was this role before we, you know, added in all the other complexities and, you know, the intricacies of working with different people. Rory: Yeah, that's that's great. Yeah, I think ⁓ everyone's struggling to build things as fast as they can or rushing the things, ⁓ I think tastemaking, creativity, and alignment are just gonna be continued tasks of a project manager. And also just because we can build something, should we? And I think that taking a step back approach is just very, very smart. ⁓ 'cause sometimes you get a little lose this forest for the trees if the as they say. ⁓ so that's that's a good one. Alison Blair: Or Velocity is not everything. It's certainly a part of this next generation of our workforce is that we will move faster. I think that's a fact. but it's not everything. Value still needs to be created as part of that. And also depending on like what kind of product you're building, you know, it might be a product or a project that, you know, can handle rapid change and therefore, sure, we can do more changes because we have more time. But you also might be on a product or service that doesn't need rapid changes, right? Needs more well thought out ⁓ you know, features and changes made to it. So velocity may not change your outcomes very much, but the value you bring is still gonna be relevant, right? Whatever you're doing, if it's still driving value, then that's great, even if it's, you know, not using AI, ⁓ cause sometimes you just might not need that rapid development. Rory: titles and jobs are changing or evolving or collapsing, but value is always gonna matter. And so if you're as long as you're bringing value, you should have, you know, employee. So that's really good. Alison Blair: Yeah. Remember who your customer is. And that's what I always tell people is like, who are you doing this for? ⁓ and you know, is their, you know, life gonna be improved as a result of it? Which is a more important KPI than, you know, I did more this week than I did last week. Rory: Yeah, that's great. I mean bit busy versus effective one ⁓ one. That's good. Alison Blair: Yeah, that that has not changed. The whole busy productivity versus effectiveness has not changed at all as part of ⁓ this AI revolution. That is still the core ⁓ of how we should, you know, approach our approach our roles. Rory: Alright, remember taking your own advice here, remembering taking a step back and who we're talking to and why we're gonna try to improve people's lives. ⁓ what advice would you give your eighteen year old self right now? If they were going to get into project management and and I can give you a quick glimpse of it. ⁓ cybersecurity majors are up 23% year over year. ⁓ data related roles are up nine hundred percent, liberal arts are down twelve and a half percent, humanities are down on applications in general. So ⁓ you know, what would you give yourself advice ⁓ now that given what you know, folks in college if you want a career in sports entertainment and technology? Alison Blair: Yeah, I mean the first thing I would say is sports, entertainment and technology's not going away. ⁓ especially here in the US. We need our football. ⁓ that was something that someone told me during COVID. We were worried about what are we gonna have our jobs at the NFL? It's like, no, no, no. People need their football. We're g it's gonna be okay, you know, in the long run. It'll be some short term pain, but in the long run it'll be okay. So I don't think you know, the industry's not going away. If anything, it's just evolving into something new. I think a lot of what you're gonna see in the future is just a lot more personalization of what you see on your TV. ⁓ you know, imagine if you could go to your TV right now and totally program it to be super dynamic and anything you wanted it to be. All your favorite apps where you want them, all your favorite shows where you want them, you know, a lot more like heavily personalized recommendations. That's kind of like I think what is evolving at least in the TV industry. If I could take a step back and tell my 18-year-old anything, it would probably be to calm down and chill out, to be honest. I think at that point of my age I was very like on to the next, want to get the next job. I want to, you know, get the next title, ⁓ and that kind of thing and I was very focused on that. ⁓ and I wish I'd been maybe a little bit less focused on, you know, the perfect title at the perfect company and maybe more focused on, yeah, the scope of ⁓ you know, what I was doing. ⁓ I also wish I could have found maybe a good mentor at that age. ⁓ I didn't really have one and good mentors are hard to find. And but if you can find one, like more power to you. Somebody who can be objective to help you with your career. Your friends and your family are not always the right person for that because they're not necessarily in your shoes ⁓ and going where you wanna go. Rory: Agreed. Alison Blair: And so yeah, it can't I don't think it can be stated enough that if you can find a good mentor in your job, in your network, it really does go a long way in helping you build confidence and helping you navigate all the changes that you're gonna occur that are you know, that are gonna come down the pipeline. But you don't really have to have it all figured out by eighteen either. I was one of those people who thought they had to have it all figured out at eighteen. And the truth is like things are gonna change so much. You know, your the landscape, the jobs, the opportunities, they're gonna they're gonna change so much. And just when you think that like you're like, ⁓ I figured everything out and I know what I wanna do, trust me, there'll be a pivot. And you just wanna be like the person who's like ready to go when the pivot comes because that's what people struggle with. They struggle with pivoting because they're like, No, I went to school for this and I was always gonna do this. ⁓ and ultimately that kind of thinking is what holds you back. Rory: Yeah. ⁓ I was a political science and I ended up with an art history minor accidentally, I was told at the end of my graduation. Yeah. ⁓ I went abroad, took a couple of art classes, had another one before I left, and they were like, Hey, you ended up with this, ⁓ with the credits. And I was like, Great. So yeah, I'm ⁓ chase your curiosity for sure, more so than anything else. ⁓ that's that's great. ⁓ and so I mean I'm I think I know when I if I ask this question, I kinda know the answer already, but Alison Blair: Accidentally. Okay. That's a new one. Okay. All right, well I'll I'll need you to take me on now. Rory: When you're hiring a junior PM or a project coordinator or BA, B S A, like what are you what are the traits you're looking for in that person right now? Alison Blair: You know, one of the things I love to see when I'm talking to someone, I mean, first of all, I love it when candidates ask me the hard questions. ⁓ you know, ask me why I'm doing what I'm doing, why I'm working, where I'm working, why we do things a certain way. So people who who people who can ask why, you know, ask why five times in order to get the real answer, ⁓ those are usually some pretty smart people. I would say people who also like are doing interesting or like creative things ⁓ in their personal life. So as a great example with this AI revolution, not a lot of people have AI job experience. Like I said, LLMs have only been around the last three years. So unless you're doing, you know, stuff in school, it's it's totally possible you don't have a lot of experience. But life experience, using AI in your personal life is something that you can do right now that like no one is stopping you from doing. And you can bring that to an interview where you know the company might be interviewing you on your AI school, AI skills. It's okay to say you haven't had a job where you've used them. But hey, you know, I created this really cool agent that, you know, tracks, you know, my calories in versus how much I'm running and like, you know, some something that you're passionate about. And that resonates a lot with interviewers. Like how you've managed to apply some of these concepts in your just day to day personal or fashion. family life, ⁓ even if you haven't had the relevant job experience. The same thing goes with school projects. ⁓ and if you're, you know, later in your career and you're looking to maybe you know, looking to maybe pivot or change, you know, keep learning. Like I consistently take like classes all the time, like one day workshops, seminars, ⁓ you know, I've taken some coding boot camps. Like all those things are just good to like stay sharp. you know, even if you're in a downtime or you might be in between jobs or ⁓ you know, looking to you know, looking to pivot, you if you're showing that you're using that time wisely, even though you might be on a break, that goes a long way, trust me. That you're still using your time wisely to better yourself. Rory: That's great. That that continual improvement is is is exactly right. ⁓ all right, well that's that I mean, I know that ding that things we both just heard is probably the sound of the bell. I know we're kinda rounding out on everything. So ⁓ if anyone wanted to follow up with you, where can we find you? Where's the best way? Alison Blair: Probably the best way is on LinkedIn. ⁓ I can certainly share that with you, Rory, but it's just it's under Marie Allison Blair on LinkedIn. And ⁓ yeah, I'm happy to happy to send me a connection. ⁓ mention that, you know, you heard us on the together on the podcast. ⁓ and yeah, I'd love to chat if anyone has any follow-up questions. Rory: Maybe some people will enroll in your classes as well. That would be great. ⁓ okay. ⁓ well, thank you so much. ⁓ that does it for episode seven of ⁓ the Career Catalyst Podcast. If you want to watch this anywhere they store Apple iTunes, you can find us again at the IT Career Academy or also on our company page on LinkedIn and at the Instagram. It's at the Career Catalyst Podcast. Alison, thank you so much. Alison Blair: Thank you for having me. Have a great day. Bye. Rory: Bye.