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From 0 to $100M ARR · EU-Startups Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 0: You
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  Speaker 2: are now listening
• 0:01
  Speaker 0: to the EU startups
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: podcast and welcome into another episode of these starps podcast.
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  Speaker 1: as always I'm your host Dave San Garcia.
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  Speaker 1: The newsletter here at you start ups today, I chatted with PJ.
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  Speaker 1: He is the managing and founding partner of the VC fund entourage.
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  Speaker 1: Now i'm calling him PJ because he was kind enough To let me use that abbreviation instead of the full Belgian name Which?
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure would have massacred.
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  Speaker 1: for those of you who watching or listening to the episode, I'm sure it's written down somewhere in the description.
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  Speaker 1: So PJ was kind enough to chat with me about his funds approach to investing—the way he sees a responsibility of bringing up new companies and entrepreneurs…and bring wisdom from past as a previous founder!
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  Speaker 1: And that is both an experience in US and Europe.
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  Speaker 1: He also talks within Europe, whether European companies should scale to the US and just
• 1:08
  Speaker 0: overall
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: ecosystem of investing right now.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: The way he thinks it's going to shape up.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: so hope you're looking forward
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• 2:27
  Speaker 2: slash EU startups.
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  Speaker 1: Hello, PJ and welcome to the You Startups podcast is a pleasure to have you.
• 2:34
  Speaker 0: Hey nice to meet you.
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  Speaker 1: Yes it's nice to me too And thank you for allowing me to call you PJ.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Maybe four our audience.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: why don't you go ahead?
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  Speaker 1: say your full name?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: that way they know who are?
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  Speaker 0: Yeah so my name is Pieterian Pieteria on both.
• 2:52
  Speaker 0: I live and work in Belgium Gantt Belgium.
• 2:56
  Speaker 0: So, yeah started my career as a consultant at Accenture but then quickly realized okay you know the corporate track is not for me joined one of the first startups in Ghent which was called Netlog.
• 3:11
  Speaker 0: there were like a social media platform in early days before Facebook came along and crushed them.
• 3:20
  Speaker 0: from my side great experience worked there three years, more on the business development and partnership side.
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  Speaker 0: Met Louie my later co-founder in The Pocket & Showpad And then first I started InThePocket which back in a day was one of the first mobile app developers in Europe.
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  Speaker 0: That was service business.
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  Speaker 0: Then out we spun Out Showpad Which became you know One of category defining companies and sales enablement Scaled the company from zero to a hundred million recurring, ran it for almost eleven years as CEO.
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  Speaker 0: Lived and worked both in US and Europe.
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  Speaker 0: We raised money from Hummingbird's Don Capitol Insight Partners Company.
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  Speaker 0: actually that sold last year.
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  Speaker 0: And yeah two years ago I I turned to the dark side as some people would say, but you know i switched on the other side of a table and that launched Anturash.
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  Speaker 0: And so we're... On one site were Aventure Studio which tried to build one amazing business every year!
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  Speaker 0: Then on the otherside where forty million pre-seed seed funds investing in yeah pretty broadly main focus is you know, B to be software across Europe.
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  Speaker 0: But we've also actually done some investments in the US and so were investing companies like an Ikea do a conveyor Lex room.
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  Speaker 0: So yeah building out VC firm.
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  Speaker 1: now You've mentioned just so many companies there and you know I had a look at your LinkedIn in preparation for us.
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  Speaker 1: And it was such wall of different, you know company's he co-founded.
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  Speaker 1: this is involved with that.
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  Speaker 1: see you mention somebody now.
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  Speaker 1: but i think the
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  Speaker 0: first
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  Speaker 1: thing want to talk about really gays, what pulled you into becoming an entrepreneur in the first place?
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  Speaker 1: Because it seems something that are very passionate about.
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  Speaker 1: It's just kind of returning to even if not as a founder but as investor or world.
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  Speaker 1: you're interested.
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  Speaker 1: and what was your initial pull
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  Speaker 0: for me?
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  Speaker 0: The initial pull is I would say curiosity.
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  Speaker 0: always like to its combination of curiosity and challenging myself.
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  Speaker 0: Like to explore new things am always triggered by new technologies where people working on something exciting And then for myself, I'm always also triggered by trying to do something that not many people will or want to do and can't.
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  Speaker 0: So like...I like to challenge my self in that respect!
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  Speaker 0: It's not only about business but I like to explore different sports Tinkering trying things, trying to learn new things.
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  Speaker 0: I think life's too short to just like have a boring life right?
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  Speaker 1: And has that attitude been the same since the beginning till now?
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  Speaker 1: because you know You've talked about Lina company That's exited.
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  Speaker 1: i keep seeing the hundred million ARR for show pad.
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  Speaker 1: So what is it kind of attitude and outlook being maintained Since The Beginning?
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  Speaker 1: Has There Been Maybe An Evolution Of It All?
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  Speaker 0: I mean, of course there's an evolution.
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  Speaker 0: In the early days for me at Accenture when i was a consultant man after one year doing that job is like...I'm never gonna have patience to run The Corporate Ladder.
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  Speaker 0: and then I joined Netlock.
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  Speaker 0: and then inspired by the founders of Netlock where You know, these are two guys in their late twenties early thirties and like they have their own company.
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  Speaker 0: It's growing They're raising money there doing amazing things.
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  Speaker 0: so I'm like okay Like you if they can do it?
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  Speaker 0: Like, you know Maybe I could do it as well.
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  Speaker 0: And so like.
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  Speaker 0: and then you start with like your first company and you actually you realize that a lot of the You know A lot of people look like If you show up and you cut prepares any work hard i would say than you already liked you know, probably halfway there like and or even more.
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  Speaker 0: Like so... And then it's always pushing yourself to do better trying to be better try to just learn from other people and being inspired by other people.
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  Speaker 0: I think that if you surround your self with people who are smarter than you harder working them You're more talented Then they actually lift you up as well.
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  Speaker 0: So for me That has been part of my experience being a founder and an entrepreneur.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned there before going to the dark side which is funny because I've actually never heard that... And it always seems like such a sign of success that entrepreneurs end up moving into investing in VC Because It's like evolution Of the stance of the founder within ecosystem That they gained so much knowledge and experience step forward and help other companies.
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  Speaker 1: So how has that changed your perspective on entrepreneurship in founders?
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Because I can't imagine it stayed exactly the same, going to the dark side as you put it.
• 8:37
  Speaker 0: Yeah from my perspective actually when i was a founder...I never thought of becoming a VC And still probably think more myself is like an entrepreneur than investor.
• 8:49
  Speaker 0: Although investing is big part right now.
• 8:54
  Speaker 0: I think it started more when i was running.
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  Speaker 0: showpad louis and myself were in the last couple years doing quite some angel investments.
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  Speaker 0: And for us, our goal is basically a combination of pay it forward.
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  Speaker 0: It's about really supporting other entrepreneurs.
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  Speaker 0: If you then put some money on it gives also skin in game.
• 9:17
  Speaker 0: That may be another dimension but we do big focuses just helping other founders.
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  Speaker 0: And I still like to start from, you know that lens of when we invest also it's a matter.
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  Speaker 0: yes there is knowledge so i can share.
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  Speaker 0: We see the primary goal as your funding growth and do think they are best founders.
• 9:38
  Speaker 0: They don't need any hand holding.
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  Speaker 0: actually most really good founders will probably ignore or filter out alot of advice.
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  Speaker 0: To me, it's more... I just try to create an environment where I can have fun.
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  Speaker 0: I have the excuse of working with really smart and driven people.
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  Speaker 0: And yes now being a VC It gives that environment.
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  Speaker 0: meeting new interesting people, keep learning about like what they're building.
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  Speaker 0: Keep being excited by what you do.
• 10:23
  Speaker 0: and yes maybe here in there we can at some critical moments help them or provide advice.
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  Speaker 0: but I actually think of the VC part to be more.
• 10:35
  Speaker 0: first and foremost it's supporting founders with money means then obviously You know, whenever it's appropriate.
• 10:44
  Speaker 0: Yes I'm happy to share my experience but also tell most founders that actually if you look now how they're building How companies are being built in some way?
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  Speaker 0: My experience at show pet has turned Irrelevant and last like a couple of years, you know Like i think Some of the things that are still relevant is probably more The people side more than you know some Of the dynamics when your scaling teams When you going international then you're growing super fast.
• 11:10
  Speaker 0: sometimes it's also more personal stories or more personal things that are relevant than truly like how to run, go-to market.
• 11:20
  Speaker 0: now actually I think has dramatically changed over when we scale showpads.
• 11:24
  Speaker 0: So you know i'm not going give any advice on that anymore and maybe some best practices from our companies but not my personal advise
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  Speaker 1: because of AI?
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  Speaker 1: You mean is at the difference between
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  Speaker 0: Yeah, I think AI how founders you know.
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  Speaker 0: What is possible today?
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  Speaker 0: Like How fast can grow a company?
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  Speaker 0: How efficient to do it?
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  Speaker 0: How AI can be leveraged where also there's way new other business models more in AI enabled services or things like that coming to us.
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  Speaker 0: so i think the type of companies ambition speed at which they're growing and how are we going is completely different than a couple years ago.
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  Speaker 1: So if somebody is listening to their podcast and they're a founder, looking for funding.
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  Speaker 1: They are prepping themselves through those kinds of conversations And I know you've just said that don't like giving too much personal advice.
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  Speaker 1: but i am going ask some questions here.
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  Speaker 1: Is there something that can prioritize in terms standing out catching the eyes of investors?
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  Speaker 1: Is it having go-to market already set up or stand on your own two legs of production, customer base.
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  Speaker 1: Is there something like that?
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  Speaker 1: That's usually a good sign for
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: you?".
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  Speaker 0: I mean it depends on the founders and it depends upon company or stage.
• 12:53
  Speaker 0: These days if we don't have some working product yet then i would be highly critical about winning a company For example unless i know the founders already.
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  Speaker 0: The way I like to interact with founders is actually track them over a longer period of time or actually engage in and before they're launching their company.
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  Speaker 0: We may be sounding bored for some ideas, but if they are approaching us to pitch the product or pitch whatever we want it do... It's a combination You know, it's the team that will catch our attention and then some of the people That we know either.
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  Speaker 0: is that?
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  Speaker 0: We see you know a product.
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  Speaker 0: That's like I always believe as well.
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  Speaker 0: if products look can feel beautiful already in The early days that would catch my eye like if you're ready care about the project your building from day one.
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  Speaker 0: i think that shows You know generally i think really Well-built products usually than later on.
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  Speaker 0: it'll help you and scaling you Know at the company and scaling revenue.
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  Speaker 0: so those are things that could catch her attention.
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  Speaker 0: Of course, if there's very early on some inflection point in the revenue side that could catch your attention but generally catches a lot of people.
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  Speaker 0: I think then as an investor you have to be quite quick.
• 14:17
  Speaker 0: so it depends on the company and the stage because the way we like to source deals or evaluate founders usually happens through our network of LPs.
• 14:34
  Speaker 0: We have more than sixty founders, software entrepreneurs in our LP base across Europe so they help us as well to surface some of these exceptional founders or evaluate the opportunities we have.
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  Speaker 0: So I think finding an in-way to one of our LPs can usually also be helpful.
• 14:55
  Speaker 0: That's like a filter that you apply.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and you've already mentioned this.
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  Speaker 1: And I do find interest in this mix that entourage has is that it's a venture studio on a VC fund?
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  Speaker 1: The name of the company here is Entourage Studio & Entourage Capital.
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  Speaker 1: So tell me about why go through that direction having kind of split approach How they complement each other.
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  Speaker 0: Yeah so what i would say most Most people would say it's strange.
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  Speaker 0: Like, you know why there are studios and I think they're some very successful as well on their VCs?
• 15:30
  Speaker 0: The reason that like to blend both is when we started Onthrush... ...I still wanted to build or be closely involved with building one of two companies every year.
• 15:40
  Speaker 0: And then these were the founders We built in our own community In our own network.
• 15:46
  Speaker 0: They're in an office And it gives us like an opportunity to really team up very closely with exceptional people in our network.
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  Speaker 0: They can then benefit from some of the exposure they get through, you know?
• 16:03
  Speaker 0: To the founders that invested and onto Azure or not... The people we work with at our studio.
• 16:10
  Speaker 0: Then on their side, fun!
• 16:11
  Speaker 0: The way that they complement each other is if If we're meeting founders to invest in, they actually appreciate the fact that you guys are also building and then have a studio.
• 16:23
  Speaker 0: And so Martin who used to be the CTO of SHOP at his running studio day-to-day... So he's deep in there grinding with the founders, building MVPs like trying to sign those first customers for us as well To being on the weeds one or two companies at any given time In our office.
• 16:45
  Speaker 0: Yeah, it makes sure that we're on the edge of you know tech how products are built and how products sold.
• 16:55
  Speaker 0: And then have founders go to market.
• 16:58
  Speaker 0: so It helps us stay really fresh and connected like How founders build?
• 17:06
  Speaker 0: I noticed a lot of founders who are not in our studio looking for capital.
• 17:12
  Speaker 0: Really appreciate you know, we have a studio.
• 17:15
  Speaker 0: So I think it helps us to win deals and makes this more relevant in terms of technologies that are being used areas that are interesting to explore.
• 17:29
  Speaker 0: so for us is like...it's like a flywheel which also helps us identify talents.
• 17:37
  Speaker 0: yeah!
• 17:38
  Speaker 0: We really liked it.
• 17:39
  Speaker 0: And one reason why i started the studio was because fund like entourage, forty million dollars.
• 17:46
  Speaker 0: I mean we're not a big fund and but we do like to have higher concentration or get certain ownership with companies.
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  Speaker 0: that's generally quite difficult because if you are trying to get into the deal where other VCs looking at it can be competitive prices go up goes down and for us the studio companies there, the fund gets like the first possibility to invest.
• 18:16
  Speaker 0: And we generally can get in very early and have a reasonable ownership at a reasonable price which is exceptional especially if you're working with good founders.
• 18:27
  Speaker 0: I think that also will.
• 18:29
  Speaker 0: ultimately it should result in better returns.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Well, you say your a small fund but I'm not.
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  Speaker 1: You started in twenty-twenty four and i think start with twenty five million from what I originally saw.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: now that are forty.
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  Speaker 1: so it's...you're making good progress and definitely growing at the right rate.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: So uh..I hesitate to call you as small fund.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: really As per growth
• 18:57
  Speaker 0: Yeah we never disclosed our second closing because then some part you know, how we say it like a public figure in the public figures maybe the wrong word but quite visible online and when running showpads.
• 19:15
  Speaker 0: And I've came to the conclusion that for being VC sometimes is not always... We try be more under-the-radar.
• 19:23
  Speaker 0: so making this exception may be on this podcast But generally trying low key or big focus you know, talking to as many founders as we can trying to meet exceptional companies and then getting in at the right moment.
• 19:42
  Speaker 0: And I think on to our show...I mean forty million is like of course it's a lot of money but in early stage VC yet still very small right?
• 19:53
  Speaker 0: We're a very small team And then we tried to keep it that way in that form.
• 20:02
  Speaker 0: I think probably later on the year, we might start to raise our second fund somewhere late this year and then we might grow team a little bit.
• 20:12
  Speaker 0: but yeah like to keep focused get good performance first run some exciting companies.
• 20:18
  Speaker 0: as you know Inventure takes eight or ten years actually to really fully see how it pays out and if you're a good VC.
• 20:30
  Speaker 0: And that makes it tough, like this.
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  Speaker 0: for me is the biggest difference between being founder of being an investor right?
• 20:35
  Speaker 0: Being a founder... You can work crazy days seven days a week!
• 20:43
  Speaker 0: And then you see tangible progress very quite quickly.. Then you know you can see revenue grow ,you can see product being built .You can see team growing and talent showing.
• 20:55
  Speaker 0: I think that's for me is the biggest adjustment as a VC, understanding it.
• 20:58
  Speaker 0: This is long-term game and you know i'm not interested in short term success or like.
• 21:09
  Speaker 0: yes we're gonna post once in awhile about an investment that we made usually because the founders liked us to post it And will do that of course happily.
• 21:17
  Speaker 0: We'll celebrate these rounds but That doesn't make great VC firm.
• 21:26
  Speaker 0: And so like to me, that's the biggest adjustment is it's time horizon in knowing if you're actually good and successful.
• 21:37
  Speaker 0: You know?
• 21:37
  Speaker 0: It's way longer!
• 21:39
  Speaker 0: That makes things a lot harder sometimes because then...you could start doubting yourself or something.
• 21:48
  Speaker 0: but its interesting.
• 21:49
  Speaker 0: I liked it for me again.
• 21:50
  Speaker 0: I've never been a VC and you know, now that i'm building a VC firm.
• 21:57
  Speaker 0: Yeah!
• 21:58
  Speaker 0: I do like it And I think It's...I Like the thing That I'll be good at this but let's see numbers will come in couple years.
• 22:05
  Speaker 0: so Well,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: we're thankful that you came on.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Of course and weird to your startups always have our eye out for these kinds of announcements.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: so On our end were always interested.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: but it is interesting what?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: You're saying this kind of like a distraction That can happen And then maybe as kind of ringing the celebration bell a bit or early on some things.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: But It's Interest, I think to most people listening here how a VC would approach these kinds of announcements.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and with that in mind And because i'm always curious about whenever.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I talked to a VC Yeah, i'm Always curious About how they see themselves In the wider ecosystem of venture capital.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Because you know europe is growing in a very large and important way.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: There's more, more funding.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: is there?
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: More cautious deployment capital Deployment maybe some people say so.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: but at least from what we're seeing there's more and more capital.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And every founder that I talked to says whereas ten years ago they had to struggle when They have go the U S now there's A lot more opportunity for him stay In Europe and find funding.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: i mean We've seen and just as Just a quick rundown of Capital funds That we've covered this past year twenty-twenty six we saw over three point six billion euros kind Of circulating around.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear what you think about all that, and where do you see entourage fitting in the wider ecosystem?
• 23:27
  Speaker 0: How entourage should fit into a wider ecosystem is a couple of things.
• 23:32
  Speaker 0: First and foremost, there's not so much founder-turned VCs or founders who start their own VC funds.
• 23:45
  Speaker 0: There are definitely some but that already gives us a little bit of an edge.
• 23:52
  Speaker 0: I always tell to founders, like, Antrash can be the founder turned VC on their cap table and we're going have some different reflexes... You know?
• 24:02
  Speaker 0: I've had some different experiences or maybe different scars as a founder but you probably return the scars from me.
• 24:13
  Speaker 0: operating Showpad at startups will turn it into the advantage of our founders.
• 24:22
  Speaker 0: And so for us, we try to steer away from many of the cliches or traditional reflexes are like who would like to bring a founder perspective?
• 24:31
  Speaker 0: Again but wherever you see... We'd like challenge some of maybe traditional thinking.
• 24:38
  Speaker 0: I do think that's our role!
• 24:47
  Speaker 0: investor, so it gives us a lot of freedom and like how we operate the fund.
• 24:51
  Speaker 0: How do you invest?
• 24:53
  Speaker 0: So sometimes we take very slow decisions And I think in some terms would take very quick decisions.
• 24:59
  Speaker 0: Um, and so i think entourage space is the founder turn vc.
• 25:04
  Speaker 0: We're quite generalist.
• 25:05
  Speaker 0: I mean yes focus on b to be software but were quiet journalist we don't.
• 25:11
  Speaker 0: You know some VCs are very could have certain teams or niches, or certain geos that they limited themselves to where.
• 25:17
  Speaker 0: actually we don't care about any of those.
• 25:21
  Speaker 0: And I think if you look at our LP base, a lot of great founders in our LP based.
• 25:27
  Speaker 0: so i think that kind of mix sets us apart from most of the other VC funds.
• 25:33
  Speaker 0: and on top of that we're also studio owners still building.
• 25:35
  Speaker 0: So I think you add all into a mix.
• 25:41
  Speaker 0: if we identify amazing founders and do work with them, they have different options.
• 25:47
  Speaker 0: We're usually in a good position to actually get into the deal.
• 25:54
  Speaker 0: but again you'll see how this plays out when it grows more competitive because that was a big difference for me as an angel I could basically get into any deal.
• 26:11
  Speaker 0: And that also was a big adjustment, like with the bigger fund you're trying to do bigger tickets and then suddenly your competing with some of the big names out there are really well-known investors.
• 26:22
  Speaker 0: Then it's harder to win those deals.
• 26:24
  Speaker 0: so they have to bring something differentiating through table or founders will generally just don't care.
• 26:33
  Speaker 0: So yeah, navigating that I think we're still learning.
• 26:36
  Speaker 0: Like to me i told us about everybody who invested in entourage back you know two years ago and realized like this is going to be a big experiment...like I have zero track record as a VC..I've never worked at the VC firm....and of course there's a lot to learn from some of the best people for sure but also not learn or what you can do differently.
• 27:05
  Speaker 0: And so, to me that's a great... it feels like at least in the last few years we've been on good sweet spot with AntoRash and let see how if he continues doing this next coming year?
• 27:17
  Speaker 0: Okay.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: You mentioned before too that you had experience in the States as well, and I'm curious to hear just about Europe versus US distinction of how you see things have grown since when you started?
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And I mean both within venture capital but also with the tech ecosystem entrepreneurship.
• 27:37
  Speaker 0: Yes so... When I launched Showpad we actually went very quickly into the
• 27:43
  Speaker 0: U.S.,
• 27:45
  Speaker 0: first of all an exception.
• 27:47
  Speaker 0: not many founders would have moved to the US or start building their business there.
• 27:54
  Speaker 0: You know, at the end of this showpad ride more than half our revenue came from the
• 27:59
  Speaker 0: U.S.,
• 27:59
  Speaker 0: so I mean for us it was a big driver off the road.
• 28:03
  Speaker 0: and then to me as well like the mindset that we had is look if our customers are target audience they were selling to sales and marketing teams and the biggest sales and And there was also limited experience of European companies going to the US.
• 28:21
  Speaker 0: There were limited venture capital in Europe back then, and I feel that last ten-fifteen years a lot has changed.
• 28:28
  Speaker 0: There's way more founders who've done The Journey similar to Shopat than even frankly a better job or have been more successful at it.
• 28:37
  Speaker 0: so i think thats great for like the knowledge here theres more investors supported companies going from Europe to the US.
• 28:46
  Speaker 0: So I think that's also great and there is way more money being invested in young companies, it's a combination.
• 28:53
  Speaker 0: then there are incubators, YC has exploded... A lot of European founders go through YC or do an E-War Do a stint at EU or go and you know, team up with them.
• 29:13
  Speaker 0: Or go to these highly successful like maybe more niche hacker houses were incubation.
• 29:18
  Speaker 0: I think To me that creates Like More ambition more opportunity And i generally feel That it's You Know there are just some people going on the journey On other side also believe we can actually build amazing companies just focusing on Europe or European markets.
• 29:38
  Speaker 0: Or again, depending upon the product and setup.
• 29:41
  Speaker 0: so I think it works both ways.
• 29:42
  Speaker 0: there's more opportunity in Europe to build a new pen focus of your P market.
• 29:47
  Speaker 0: And i think this is more experience ongoing to us.
• 29:53
  Speaker 0: To be honest like I still sometimes actually when talking go-to-market scaling up company some times I still believe when I'm talking to European founders, sometimes it makes more sense.
• 30:09
  Speaker 0: Once you've started being successful in Europe because every country like Germany UK France Netherlands Belgium is always starting from zero and a lot of You know types of companies not all like if it's more product lead growth or things Like that maybe its can scale quicker, but If you're more an enterprise Or More sales led growth motions.
• 30:36
  Speaker 0: I actually think It makes sometimes no worse sense to like once you have a first-product and it's working And your selling go as quick As you can't view us if That's Your biggest market?
• 30:45
  Speaker 0: i mean why Not like?
• 30:46
  Speaker 0: like you Know if you want To Go big then we are still.
• 30:49
  Speaker 0: I Think it's A very interesting Market and Probably the best Market to go.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's yeah.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I always ask this when people jump on the podcast because It seems to be there is this developing kind of you know new way of addressing entrepreneurship in Europe and And it's always the people that have had the most success at the clearest opinion on it.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Uh-and and its varied You know i've heard some who disagree with you and say no stay in europe Be fully European don't you dare take american capo?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: And i've had others saying oh No, you need to expand the u.s.. Its relevant to bill.
• 31:22
  Speaker 0: I always say, take any money you can get if it comes from a good investor.
• 31:26
  Speaker 0: And thoroughly like but again depends on the company.
• 31:30
  Speaker 0: sometimes makes total sense not to go to US and not to try an and then go there or compete their or build they're.
• 31:40
  Speaker 0: But so sorry does.
• 31:42
  Speaker 0: but then on your side Like If You Have A Product Where Your Biggest Market For Us The U.S.. You can already sign some US customers while maybe building in Europe and being based in Europe.
• 31:54
  Speaker 0: I still believe that it's like an amazing market.
• 31:57
  Speaker 0: once you figure it out, once... And it all comes down to finding and attracting the right talent, being able to create traction there momentum there but one should get a day.. It could be very powerful!
• 32:10
  Speaker 0: It also costs you a lot of money ,it can also be very painful .It is also those things.
• 32:15
  Speaker 0: so So it's a two-edged sword as they say, but I still like founders who have an ambition to conquer the world.
• 32:27
  Speaker 0: That's good
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: yeah.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Well we're nearing the thirty minute mark here.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Oh We are at thirty minutes.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: so I'm gonna ask you my final question and then i'll let You get back To your day.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: And throughout this whole chat that we've had kept popping out to me was this idea that you keep bringing up.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: That, you know... You want to kind of shape the next generation and be there at the beginning To see how they're forming And kinda being on cutting edge On a cutting room floor saying what's going on What is coming now?
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: And I know you were involved in Founder Winter Circus.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So, I can see that with Entourage we've got the studio.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: so i want to hear a little bit about how do think these kinds of initiatives and communities will go forward building the next generation of European entrepreneurs?
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah
• 33:25
  Speaker 0: for me as well at end-of-day if angel vesting, winter circus even alterage.
• 33:31
  Speaker 0: I think it comes from like a starting point of giving back but then also trying to create community around that and an economic model where my idea would be If I think about the next five or ten years, I really hope that we're now supporting some entrepreneurs with Entourage.
• 33:53
  Speaker 0: That can actually... if they become the next generation of legendary founders as we call it at Entourage then there also gonna start to give back to the community.
• 34:07
  Speaker 0: two other founders supporting other founders investing mentoring challenging and i think We went to circus.
• 34:15
  Speaker 0: we've you know, we've seen and my co-founder Louie there did an amazing job of running the circus for last couple years.
• 34:23
  Speaker 0: I'm really shaping that into community it is.
• 34:26
  Speaker 0: And then add to that like investors added that ambitious people um...and To me them You have like an amazing five wheel uh..of ambition innovation and Then hopefully success.
• 34:39
  Speaker 0: and eventually i think if There's a success in returns or people can you know, sell their business or IPO.
• 34:46
  Speaker 0: Or whatever then again there's capital available and can be reinvested in into the next generation.
• 34:51
  Speaker 0: I think that's how we build like an ecosystem And it to me is a lot of fun to be part of that than play as small role on that.
• 35:00
  Speaker 0: So yeah so i think those are some goals dreams and ambitions for future.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I think its great note end this idea.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you know, success when it comes to entrepreneurship is also being able to give back and getting to a point where you can add the influence of wisdom in resources.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: So thank Yeah, you're welcome.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: It's a
• 35:33
  Speaker 0: really enjoyable patient.
• 35:34
  Speaker 0: so
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Thank You.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: thank-you know I do as well.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: these are the highlights of my week Whenever I get to get somebody on and chat with them And not just be hunched over at keyboard writing news articles.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: So thank you for giving me that break?
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: And I hope we'll chat soon.
• 35:49
  Speaker 0: yeah,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: thank you.