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Beyond Footfall: Inside Exposure Analytics' Physical Engagement Index · Event Industry News Podcast

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Hello everybody and welcome along to the Event Industry News Podcast with
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me, James Dixon, wishing all a very good morning, afternoon, or evening wherever
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or whenever you tune into today's podcast from.
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It's a glorious Monday morning, as it so often is
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when I'm recording these podcasts, always on a Monday. And in recent months,
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yeah, we're in British summertime at the moment and things are pretty
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good. Welcome along to today's show, everybody.
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And on today's show, we're going to be looking at at reporting, uh, all things,
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uh, analytical related to the events industry with a
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gentleman who I've been, uh, fortunate enough to have known for, for some— well,
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yeah, I'm gonna say many years now, um,
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probably coming up a decade that I first met our guest today,
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um, via work that I was doing in the industry, uh,
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and via his company that we're going to find a little bit more out about
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today. My guest is Rob Murdoch. Rob is the Sales
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Director for a company called Exposure Analytics. Some of our podcast guests
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may be familiar with them. If you're not, we're going to find out a bit
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more about them today. Rob, a warm welcome, uh, and, uh, yeah, welcome along.
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Thank you, James, that's a lovely intro. Appreciate that.
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Yeah, likewise. And it is— it must be, it must be coming
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up 10 years since you and I first met,
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um, and, uh, you know, it— I've always got to remind
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myself that even if I know people or I know what what their companies do
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in the industry. It's never a given that our podcast's
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followers are going to know, you know, every single guest that comes on to the
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podcast. So why don't we start sort of at the obvious beginning, Rob?
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Tell us a little bit about yourself, but more specifically, what is it that
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Exposure Analytics do within the industry? So,
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Rob Murdoch, Sales Director, as you said. I've been working at Exposure
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now for the last 14 years, I think. And we help
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our clients understand the skills
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and the— what their booth has— the performance of their booth and how well
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it's done through insights. We started off in the early days
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just giving numbers to our clients here. You've had this many people come
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by your booth, this many people engage with it, but we've gone deeper and
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we've got a breadth of data within the events
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that we've done, and we wanted to give more insight, so we're working on
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producing this insights report, the Physical Engagement Index.
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And in terms of capturing that information, again, I think it's important that we
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perhaps frame that because, you know,
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the business has evolved and the technology that you use to capture
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the data that you have available and that you can provide back to clients has
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evolved as well. But are you still using sensor
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technology? How is the data itself monitored and captured? Yep,
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so we're still using sensor technology. Obviously, those sensors are updated and
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refreshed, and new technology, new material, new hardware
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is introduced to the business. But yeah, still the basic sensors, but it's
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the insights that our clients are interested more and
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more. And with this year, it's just gone absolutely crazy for the amount of events
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that we're doing. Real increase because people now
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want more information. There's more people going to events,
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there's reasons they're going there, and our brands and our clients want
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to understand what is working and what's not working. Is this event the
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right event for them? But also giving these benchmarks to them that
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this is what the industry standard is, this is what your industry type
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standard is, this is what you've seen on your booth.
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And how is that? I know we've spoken about the sensor thing, but again,
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I just want to paint a really clear picture for people listening to this today
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before we kind of dive into this report. Is what kind
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of data can be captured now? Because, you know, a lot of
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people in the events industry will be familiar with the kind of the basic motion
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sensors, and like you said, in the early days it was all just about capturing
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the basic numbers— how many people sort of came to a stand or walked past
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it. What are the sensors actually capturing themselves now from a
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data perspective? So the sensors are listening for pings from
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mobile devices, fully anonymized, fully GDPR
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client, and they're listening for that. From that, we can tell the proximity from the
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sensor, then work out the engagement and how long they were there for.
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So that's what they're doing. They're just in listen mode on a booth.
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And some booths we can have 1 sensor, some booths we can have 30 sensors.
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It depends on the size of the booth. And of course, at some of
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these, you know, huge, you know, booths that we see in the big sort of
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international events, you know, you can monitor people's movement
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within your own booth, presumably by triangulating positional
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data between various different sensors that might be in one booth?
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Yeah, well, we don't triangulate, but we do pick up that
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data and tell where they were engaged and what sensors they were on. So it's
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pretty accurate. We give ourselves a leeway of 10%,
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but most of the time we're on the money. It's giving that People
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talk about, oh, it was a busy booth. Well, how busy was it? They talk
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about, oh, we had lots of people staying here for a long time, but it's
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anecdotal data. Now they've got the insights that they can act on and
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deliver information back to their bosses, marketing directors,
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the CMO, the CEO, the board that want to know,
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how did it perform? We spent this much money on the space and this event,
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what have we got out of it? Yes, you've got leads, but also how
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many people saw the branding. Yeah, and then you mentioned
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anecdotal data. This has been mentioned on the podcast many times, you know,
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in the past, that for decades the events industry
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really just relied on anecdotal,
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extremely basic headline data, you know,
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usually boiled down to how many people walked through the door.
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That was pretty much it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, for years,
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attendance has been the measurement. You know,
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what— yeah, attendance isn't performance though. All it tells you is how
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many people are in the room. Does it tell you what was engaged? So this
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one's saying footfall is not engagement. Just because
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you've had 10,000 people into that room doesn't mean they've engaged with you.
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And, you know, they were talking— clients used to talk about badge scans,
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you know, the aggressive badge scanners are going there scanning. That's not good
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data. You want really good data to understand what's
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working. And, you know, is the booth working? Do we need to redesign the booth?
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Are they moving around the booth the way we expected them to? Because, yeah,
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human nature doesn't always follow the design that people have their booths for.
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Yeah, and this very much brings us on to this Physical Engagement Index,
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you know, the report that I think you said, you know, before we started recording
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today, is going to be— is due to be published in August. So, you know,
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podcast followers and people who work in the events industry will be able to
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get hold of this. I've been fortunate enough to see a draft of the report
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and you know, but very much it opens by saying,
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you know, what we've just mentioned, you know,
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that the industry relied on this very, very basic data that
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footfall is not necessarily good measurement of
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how successful an event is. And, you know, you've reminded me of somebody
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who once said that they saw somebody on a stand with a badge scanner.
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When you talk about aggressive scanning, they described
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them as the Rambo of that particular event. They'd seen somebody on a
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booth opposite who basically just had one of these badge scanners, was literally literally just
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like going for the numbers, trying to mow down as many badges as they could
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possibly get in a Rambo style over 2 or 3 days,
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however long this event was. And then when the sales team get that information,
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they're calling these people, no, I'm just, I'm not interested in
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it. It's a waste of everyone's time. Yeah. So good data is what
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people need. Insights is what people need. And, you know, we're producing that.
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So this physical engagement index that that we've created.
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We want to do it, we're going to be doing it every year so we
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can see the trends. This one that we've done, we started
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in 2020 with it and finished sort of early 2026,
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the data. That's over 3,000 events that we've measured.
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Yeah, the numbers are high, so we've got, you know, a lot of data.
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So 43.8 million visitors across those 3,000
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events, 18 countries, 18 different industry sectors,
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So yeah, a lot of data that there is. And just,
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you know, picking out some of the things— one thing that Rob and I both
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spoke about before we came on to today's podcast is when
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we have referenced reports like this in the industry on the podcast,
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what we don't want to do is just read the report verbatim because,
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you know, it is very much kind of the podcast equivalent of
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death by PowerPoint at the conference where the guy just reads the bullet points.
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But it is important that we touch on
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maybe some of the headline stats that are in here, Rob. You've mentioned 43.8 million
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total measured visitors between 2020 and 2026,
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15.6 million engaged visitors. And just,
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you know, the data is telling us that the average engaged visitor stayed
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for 13 minutes and 50 seconds on booze.
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And I'm saying these sort of numbers really
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as a way of telling people who are listening to this today
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just how accurate the data is that is available to them now. Yes, yeah,
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and if you think on the— this is the physical space—
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if you think in the digital world, the engagement they're getting is seconds,
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and we're seeing more and more shift of people spending longer at events,
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more people going to events because they need to, they want to be there,
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touch and feel and talk to people. Yeah, yeah, this is showing
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it. We've compiled the list by country, by industry
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sector, region,
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years, months. So the report covers a lot of information.
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What's the busiest months, the best countries for
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engagement, which countries do it well, and we go into detail in
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each section. So I'm not going to give away everything, as you said, it'd be
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death by report. Yeah, but that's interesting. I mean, without sort of
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going into that detail, were you interested
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in looking at some of the differences from territory to territory? Do the stats change
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dramatically from one country to another? Are there cultural
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or regional differences to some of the data that by looking at this report
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you thought, oh, that's interesting? Most definitely there is cultural differences,
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like UAE has the highest dwell
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time, people spend longer at the events. Germany has
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better engagement, the Germans are very precise in
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the way they do things and people will engage with a booth that they believe
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is delivering that. And it's very, very interesting seeing
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how Obviously we started in 2020
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and COVID hit, so we didn't have that much data, but we wanted to
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have pre-pandemic data and then post-pandemic data.
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This strikes me then, what you've just said, is potentially valuable information for
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international businesses who are exhibiting, you know,
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many times a year in different territories to represent, you know,
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global brands, you know, big electronic events,
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things like that. This strikes me as something that could be really useful to
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to global brands when they're trying to really design their
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activities at international exhibitions? Yes, most definitely,
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because each country is different, the trends are different.
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North America is different to UAE,
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Spain is different to Italy, they all act
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differently. France was an outlier that we saw and was an interesting
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one, not going to go into those details, but each country showed
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something different to us. Um, I mean, when I first,
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uh, saw the completed report, I was sat reading it. It's quite lengthy
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report. My wife said to me, what are you doing? I said, I'm looking at
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porn, data porn, because it's,
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it's really, really fascinating what came out of it. Well, again,
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we, we said we're going to pull out odd bits
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of information here without going in too much detail, but there is almost,
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just looking at the maths here, a 5— oh no,
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hold on, hold on here. Let's have a look at it. 12, 5, 50.
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Okay, there's about a 5-minute difference in the dwell time
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between UK and Ireland and the Middle East, which you just
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alluded to the fact that people do dwell. That, that— I mean, that, that's massive,
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isn't it? That's a significant swing. Is that because they're doing things
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better out there in terms of how they plan and deliver their, their exhibition
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stands? Is that a combination of the cultural element of
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it? You know, We're putting it down to cultural elements of it.
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That's simply that. The amount of
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events we've got covered and the amount of people that we measured, we know that
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the data is good there, and it's definitely cultural differences.
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I mean, is there a danger that there
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is too much data now? I've got to ask that question today because obviously this
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report is fascinating and there's a lot that people
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can disseminate from it. Once they, once they read through it. And one thing I
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would say, having read the draft copy, is it's actually, you know,
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very easy to understand. It's not one of those reports that has got
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a lot of jargon in there. It's been broken down and edited
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in such a way that it is actually very easy to understand. But notwithstanding,
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are we at a point, are we getting towards a sort of data saturation point
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within the events industry now? I would say no,
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that's bad data. We just don't want.
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But the good data is going to help you,
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give you good insights, help you act on that data.
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So yes, there's lots and lots of data
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points coming out. We're talking about AI and what that's producing,
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but this is from the physical events that we've measured, and it's
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data that you can work on and make changes
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to your booth and your performance moving forward. And I'm
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just going to mention the fact that the report itself
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does break down into sectors as well. So, you know,
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anybody reading this who might work in the events industry but within a specific sector
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of events or works for an exhibition organizer that specializes in certain industries,
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you know, that people can again break down and extract
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information from this report that is very much relevant to them. That there is a
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certain element of the report that is an overview of the the entire
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industry, but then it does go into detail into individual industries,
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which again, you know, anybody knows who knows
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trade shows and those types of events knows that every industry is ever
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so slightly different in terms of the people and their interaction at these types of
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events. Yes, and also our clients want to know benchmarks.
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Where should we be at? You know, if I'm working in the medical
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sector, what is the average for engagement,
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for dwell times, engaged dwell time. What should we be aiming at? Are we
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above or below average? So they can look at this report and look at it
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by year, look at it overall and say, oh, we're above average,
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or no, we need to improve. So yes, that's,
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it's gonna definitely help them. And, you know, we've shared some little
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bits with some clients, just when we're talking back to clients about
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past events we've done with them, we sort of say, well, on the benchmark,
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you're above or below, and they want to act on that and improve it.
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For next time. That we, or I,
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keep mentioning the, you know, the exhibitor, the companies themselves,
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and how this is going to affect them. But one thing I haven't asked,
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and one thing we haven't mentioned, is the benefit of a report like this to
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event organizers. I would see that
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this is going to have, you know, significant benefits to them
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if they read through this and extract some of the information. You know, the better
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an organizer can understand the data that is being generated by their exhibitors,
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the better job they can do with with their communication,
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with their pre-show ops, with their layout. This is going
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to potentially have a huge impact for organizers. Yeah, it can.
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And part of the report talks about location of
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the booth. Is it at the front center, front left, the middle, the back,
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and what sort of engagement they get there? And you talk about some
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organizers will charge more for the front center
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because you're going to be seen straight away, but our data suggests, yes, you're going
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to have the highest footfall, footfall, but not the highest engagement,
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because people get into the exhibition hall, turn right,
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turn left, and move past the front-standing booths.
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It's interesting because we still do a lot of that operational
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planning in terms of, you know, like you said,
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selling stands up at the front for a premium because we
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think that people are going to do better on those positions. But that is based
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on the anecdotal kind of psychology that is still very much locked into people's
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minds, isn't it? You know, that, that's based on the, the old footfall
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elements of it and thinking, right, if you're there right at the front, you're more
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likely to do business because people get, you know, they might get bored by the
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time they get to the back. But if you watch anybody who walks in through
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the doors of a trade show now, often people, they walk straight past the ones
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that are right at the front because they know where they want to go because
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they've looked at an app in advance. You know, all of this sort of old-school
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psychology and thinking, you know, it is taking a while to sort of break old
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habits, isn't it? Yes, most definitely. And, you know, everyone thinks
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front center is the best place. It's not always the best place. It depends on
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the show, but it's not always the best place.
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And our data is saying that. Yeah, and it's
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interesting. I was working on a show recently and they designed everything
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of significance from a theater and a hospitality point of view
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to be at the very back of the hall. There was nothing kind of even
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in the center or on the edges. It, it was all at the back.
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What their thinking was to, to, to drive people, uh,
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you know, all the way to the back to give maximum coverage to all of
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the exhibitors. I couldn't tell if it, if it worked or if it didn't work,
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but I actually don't think that they base anything— base
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that planning on anything other than their own instinct.
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Most, most probably, yes. Yeah, um, yeah, we When
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we're doing an event, creating an event, we collect a lot of data about
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the booth. So rather than just saying, what's the size of it, where do you
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want the sensors, what are you doing on that booth? Are you near
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a theater? Are you near toilets? Are you near a cafe?
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And we're going to be, for the next insights report,
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Physical Engagement Index, we will be presenting that data saying,
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well, booth locations near theaters get
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higher engagement. Well, we'll find out what happens on it when we produce a report
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because we don't know that information yet.
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Absolutely. This first report has been— we've
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referenced the fact that the data spans 2020 to '26.
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That's a 6-year period. Yep.
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Are future iterations of this report on an annual basis
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going to start from that 2020 start point, or will
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they just be based on data that you've collected in a yearly cycle, or will
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you Or will you kind of use a combination of both?
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That data's not going to change, so that report will always be
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there, the first report. So the next reports we
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do will be based on that, that current year. So giving
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comparisons back to previous years, saying what changes.
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So we've seen changes in 2025 from 2024, and we're seeing if
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that's a blip or whether that's going to be carried on to 2026.
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So the main part of the report will the next report
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will be about the current year with
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more data in it. And it's interesting because it's—
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we're now, you know, the pandemic of 2020
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reshaped the events industry, and for the next year or a couple of years,
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you know, there was so much chatter in the industry and on this podcast
20:37
about getting back to live events and getting back to doing
20:41
this, and we miss the industry. The reality is now we're
20:45
we are now closer to being a decade on from the
20:49
pandemic than we are to the pandemic itself.
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And I, without sort of blowing smoke,
20:56
I see reports and, and the, the work that you guys are
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doing with reports like this and, and other organizations doing with their own reporting in
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the industry as being critical because that, that 10 years on from
21:07
2020, now when we get to 2030, I think there's going to be
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a lot of really, really good data available
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to see just how far we've progressed in that decade.
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Yes, and also the geopolitical events and what
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impact they have on events. And,
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um, you know, we're seeing it, uh, we saw some of it in 2025,
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and, um, yeah, there's more coming through in 2026.
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So politics of the world, situations going on
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in the world does have an effect on events. Well, we've seen that, we've seen
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that, haven't we, this year? I know, you know, I was working in the Middle
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East 3— in February, and I, I, I left
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the Middle East after a, a, a, a job there 3
21:52
weeks before things, you know, started to go— well,
21:55
started to kick off basically over there. And,
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you know, within a couple of weeks I was seeing emails and getting messages from
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people saying, oh, that event in, you know, Saudi Arabia has been cancelled,
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that event in Qatar has been cancelled, that one in the UAE has been cancelled.
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And we're talking sort of serious, you know, big multi-million,
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multi-billion pound events for international industries being,
22:18
you know, shelved and put on the back burner, some postponed, some cancelled
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completely. And, um, I, I think sometimes we underestimate
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just how much business and, and how much, how big an impact it
22:30
will have on the industry, the geopolitical aspects, as you, as you alluded
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to. Yeah, and, uh, travel as well. So, you know, just look
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at North America. Are less Canadians going across to American events?
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Um, is the footfall dropping or increasing? I'm not going to say anything
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about it, it's in the report. Um, but is that having an impact?
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Yeah, absolutely. It'll be fascinating to watch
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it. And it only occurred to me recently that, that the thing that I mentioned
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about the pandemic, that the sort of the, you know, we are closer to being
23:01
a decade on from it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To it itself.
23:05
And yet, you know, we still reference that period
23:09
of time. We still reference the fact that, you know, it showed us just
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how much people wanted to be face-to-face and
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be in physical events. And it, in,
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in some, some respects, we don't need to say that anymore. I think everybody
23:23
accepts that that is the case. What we need to do is move on
23:27
and use tools like this, you know, know, your analytical
23:31
tools and other organizations out there to really,
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you know, break down some of this information. I think one thing that's happened pre-pandemic—
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post-pandemic, sorry— is not necessarily the improvement
23:43
of event technology, but the way that we use it and understand it.
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I think there almost seems to be that there was a tech industry in
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the events marketplace pre-pandemic,
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But what the pandemic forced us is to really
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adopt and identify that it was a critical part
24:03
of the industry rather than a niche element of it, and that's
24:06
been the biggest development for me over the last 6 years. Yeah, and we're shifting
24:11
away from talking about the tech and talking more about the insights and what that
24:14
delivers. Yes, the tech is part of what we need to deliver
24:19
our services, but the important bit for our clients is the insights,
24:23
what they get from that. Yeah,
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they're acting on it, they're dealing with it, and they're making improvements.
24:30
And that's the other thing about events as well, is, you know,
24:33
are more people going to events now? Because, you know, this is what we hear
24:37
about AI, you know, there's so much you see on AI, whether you believe it
24:40
or not, whether that's fake or real. And in
24:44
order to touch it for yourself, you need to attend events, you actually see it.
24:48
Yeah, I think we're seeing that trend without a doubt.
24:52
Um, we've, we've been speaking about the report
24:55
today. We mentioned, or I mentioned, that it's, it's going to be due out in
24:58
August. Um, let's make sure that people know how,
25:02
when, you know, what they need to do. So, um, if they want
25:07
a copy of this report, where will they need to go? First of all,
25:10
if they go to our website, uh, exposureanalytics.com,
25:14
and they'll be able to click on to receive the report there. Fabulous.
25:19
Publication date, uh, early August. Is it, um, a case of
25:23
sort of register— can people register now, or will, will there be sort of a,
25:27
a date, uh, when this sort of page will go live and people can start
25:31
to, to access it? So on top of the Insights Report, we're doing a rebrand
25:35
as well, so we're just getting everything in place. The aim is for the 8th
25:38
of August. But obviously, you know, design work,
25:42
we might not say, we're not sure about that, but the aim is for the
25:45
8th of August. Let's have it out. And I would perhaps suggest that people
25:49
just keep an eye on Event Industry News, make sure that you're following our
25:53
socials, connected with Event Industry News on LinkedIn, you know,
25:56
make sure that you subscribe to the email newsletter, because as
26:00
soon as that report drops, it'll be available via Event Industry
26:04
News. We'll be covering that. So perhaps, you know, another easy way of doing
26:09
that is to make sure that you're subscribed and following all the industry news channels,
26:13
and, uh, and we'll update you as soon as that report is made available.
26:17
Um, which brings me nicely to just say thank you, uh,
26:20
to my guest today, uh, Sales Director from, uh, Exposure Analytics,
26:23
uh, and an old friend of mine. I, I hope you don't mind me saying
26:27
that, Rob. Now I've known you long enough to say old
26:30
friend. My second granddaughter arrived last week, so yeah, I'm getting older.
26:34
Oh, absolutely. Congratulations to you and
26:38
your family, mate. It's great. It's been great speaking to you today. Just a couple
26:41
of little, um, shoutouts for other stuff at Event Industry News before we wrap up
26:45
today. Um, as always, um, if you're listening to today's
26:49
podcast via your podcast platform, thank you very much for doing so. Please do make
26:53
sure that you go over to eventindustrynews.com when you get a moment just to check
26:56
out all the latest news features, special supplements, of course the A to Z
27:00
supplier directory. If you work in the industry and you're looking for a product,
27:03
service, or supplier, the chances are you will find it within the supplier directory
27:07
on eventindustrynews.com, where you can watch video
27:10
versions of all of the podcasts. Of course, you may have started
27:14
your journey there today by watching today's episode of the podcast. If you have
27:17
done that, thank you very much for tuning in, but please do make
27:21
sure that you go in the opposite direction to your audio podcast
27:24
platform, whether that be iTunes or Spotify, and make sure
27:27
that you subscribe and you're liked and all that sort of stuff so that you
27:31
get regular updates on when the new episodes of the podcast drop.
27:34
So my thanks once again to my guest today, Rob Murdoch from Exposure
27:38
Analytics. Keep your eye out for that report when it gets published, uh, early August,
27:42
and we'll see you all on the next edition of the podcast. Thanks everybody.
27:46
Thanks, James. Appreciate it.