Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #855 Hitting Pause on Praise

Transcript

#855 Hitting Pause on Praise · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers now.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: time poor parents who just wants answers now. Hopefully having
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful school holiday experience with your kids and
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: getting some extra parenting tips along the way. Today, we're
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: going to have a conversation about a topic that, let's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: just say it like this, I'm going to we are
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: going to slay a sacred cow of parenting advice. On
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the scale of degree of how severely bad some parenting
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  Speaker 1: advice is. This one's not right up there with the
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  Speaker 1: worst of it, but it's one of those things that
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  Speaker 1: I just think needs a conversation now and then to
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  Speaker 1: remind parents that the way we give feedback to our
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  Speaker 1: children matters. I ran a presentation at a beautiful school
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  Speaker 1: in the Redland Bay area, the sort of the bayside
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  Speaker 1: area of Brisbane almost in college. And while I was
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  Speaker 1: there and one of the questions from one of the
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  Speaker 1: parents was what I'd do about, like, what's the right
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: way to praise my child when they do something well,
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  Speaker 1: because I want to really encourage them and I want
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  Speaker 1: them to be motivated to do their schoolwork and to
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  Speaker 1: do well at sports and cross country and music and
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: all the things that this parent was invested in their
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  Speaker 1: child doing well in. It was a great question, and
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  Speaker 1: I had to do the big Okay, here we go.
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  Speaker 1: We're going to go deep. I've got to take a
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  Speaker 1: deep breath, and that's what we're going to do today.
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  Speaker 1: I just thought it was such an important thing for
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  Speaker 1: us to talk about, because there is this belief out there, Kylie,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: that was supposed to pump up our kids tires, to
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  Speaker 1: make them feel good and to help them to be motivated.
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  Speaker 2: So this is an area that kind of I think,
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  Speaker 2: even as a parent and as an individual, take parenting
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  Speaker 2: out of the equation that I really grapple with. In
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  Speaker 2: my early childhood background, our lecturers used to talk to
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  Speaker 2: us a lot about the need to not evaluate the
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  Speaker 2: children within our care's efforts in any shape or form,
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  Speaker 2: regardless of what it was, whether it was were at
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  Speaker 2: the art table or they were doing plato or they
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  Speaker 2: were just climbing the climbing frames.
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  Speaker 1: That just don't evaluate.
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  Speaker 2: There was no evaluation to be given, and so over
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  Speaker 2: time you learn the art of asking questions as opposed
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  Speaker 2: to labeling children. But I know all my own life,
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  Speaker 2: when I do something really good and I'm really proud
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  Speaker 2: of it, I want to hear that acknowledgment that someone
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  Speaker 2: else recognizes the effort or the magnitude of what I've achieved.
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  Speaker 1: I love that you're saying this because you've married the
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  Speaker 1: guy who is a complete non praise.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah totally, but no, no, no, let me finish.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, we're butting all over.
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  Speaker 2: But there are times where people have, for all intents
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  Speaker 2: and purposes, evaluated what I've done, not to the standard
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  Speaker 2: that I feel i've done it, And I'm like, you
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  Speaker 2: don't have.
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  Speaker 1: A clue that that was a really good effort and
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  Speaker 1: you've just said good job. Yeah, yes, so I want.
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  Speaker 1: I want recognition and acknowledgment, but I want it to
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  Speaker 1: be to the levels that I think that it deserves.
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  Speaker 1: And if I don't get it, then you're not praising
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  Speaker 1: well enough. That doesn't work, So let's debunket.
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  Speaker 2: You obviously are really really strong on this praise thing.
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  Speaker 1: I really am. Yeah. I remember about twenty years ago
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  Speaker 1: when our eldest was only quite young and we were
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  Speaker 1: with some friends and I made this comment about how
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  Speaker 1: it would be better to not praise the kids, and
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  Speaker 1: he rolled his eyes. Steve rolled his eyes and said, oh,
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  Speaker 1: are you one of those non praise people. And I
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  Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I am. But there's actually good evidence
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  Speaker 1: for it, and over the last twenty years we've got
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  Speaker 1: even more evidence for it. So first of all, it's
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: probably worth just highlighting white people praise. I think we
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  Speaker 1: need to spend some time there. We have this sense
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  Speaker 1: that it's going to be motivating for kids, and it's
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  Speaker 1: true that it is. We've got plenty of research that
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  Speaker 1: shows that in the instance that somebody receives praise, whether
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  Speaker 1: a child or an adult, it feels nice, but only
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  Speaker 1: in the instant. And there's even some research that calls
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  Speaker 1: that into question. So there's some research that says that
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  Speaker 1: if you raise a child and say oh, good job
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  Speaker 1: or great sharing or super running or nice tidying, or
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  Speaker 1: any of those kinds of throw away praisy kind of lines,
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  Speaker 1: sometimes not always, it depends on how you do it
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  Speaker 1: in the context, but quite often children will infer low ability.
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  Speaker 1: That is, if you're praising me for doing it, you
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  Speaker 1: must think I'm not good at it.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I was, as you were talking, I was thinking
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  Speaker 2: about the times where I have done things and I
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  Speaker 2: haven't been proud of it. I don't feel like it's
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  Speaker 2: a great job, right, and yet somebody will tell me
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  Speaker 2: that it is. And my instant thought process is, you're
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  Speaker 2: just saying that because you love me, or you're just
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  Speaker 2: saying that because you have to.
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  Speaker 1: When I was a teenager, I jumped on the bus,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: paid my fare to go to the beach. The bus
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  Speaker 1: driver gave me my change, and as I walked to
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  Speaker 1: my seat, put my surfboard into the bus and sit
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  Speaker 1: down beside it, I realized that the bus driver had
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  Speaker 1: given me too much change. For some reason. I walked
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  Speaker 1: back to him and said, you gave me twenty cents
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  Speaker 1: too much change. Praised me for He said, good, good boy,
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  Speaker 1: you're such an honous boy. I was like fourteen or
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: thirteen or something like that, and I remember as he
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  Speaker 1: said it, I cringed inside because as soon as he
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  Speaker 1: said it, I thought of all the times that I
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  Speaker 1: haven't been honest, and I thought, oh, buddy, you don't
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  Speaker 1: know the behalf of it. I don't actually know why
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  Speaker 1: I gave you the twenty cents back because I am
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  Speaker 1: not an honest boy. And him saying that made me
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  Speaker 1: hyper aware that I did not deserve that praise. But
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  Speaker 1: we do it because we want to motivate a certain
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  Speaker 1: kind of behavior. Other research suggests that we praise our
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: kids because we want to boost their self esteem. You
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  Speaker 1: know how I respond to that. When you teach your
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  Speaker 1: children to look to external sources for validation of their
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  Speaker 1: value and their worth, you do not boost their self esteem.
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  Speaker 2: No.
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  Speaker 1: What also has been shown in research is that while
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  Speaker 1: you might get a subsequent boost in happiness, motivation, satisfaction
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  Speaker 1: with life when you get praise. If you get praised
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  Speaker 1: for let's say, getting an A plus on an exam, Ah,
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  Speaker 1: great job, you're so smart. I think that you might
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: be gifted. Child Like, you say that to the kiddo
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  Speaker 1: and then they do the next exam and they don't
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  Speaker 1: get the A plus, they get a B minus. What
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  Speaker 1: does that say about whether they really are gifted or not?
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  Speaker 1: They've lost their gear completely. It means that they're not
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  Speaker 1: nearly as smart. But what does it also say about
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  Speaker 1: your judgment? Now they're going to question your judgment. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: my parents are just saying it because they have to.
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  Speaker 1: My parents' judgment is flawed, just like my intelligence is flawed.
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  Speaker 1: And so it's not so much of what happens in
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: the immediate moment, it's the aftermath, when there is a
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  Speaker 1: subsequent setback that is challenging. Got a couple of other
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  Speaker 1: reasons that people praise their kids. They will often do
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  Speaker 1: it as an incentive, like they're doing it to really,
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  Speaker 1: I guess, push them along.
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  Speaker 2: I've heard many times, especially in the classroom, praise the good,
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  Speaker 2: ignore the bad for kids that are really really struggling.
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  Speaker 2: And so you've got this kid who you know, ninety
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  Speaker 2: percent of the time is quite disruptive in class, but
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  Speaker 2: the three or four times in a day where they're
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  Speaker 2: sitting quietly ham it up, Yes, and make a really
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  Speaker 2: big deal about it. Yes, And yet you're suggesting that
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  Speaker 2: even that's flawed as.
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  Speaker 1: Well, deeply, deeply. In fact, a couple of my notes
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  Speaker 1: here that I was thinking about, I wrote down, we
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  Speaker 1: praise the kids that we think need it because it
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  Speaker 1: will help them believe that they're good. This is that classic.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know if it was like this when you
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  Speaker 1: were at school, and I'm hoping that most schools don't
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  Speaker 1: do this anymore. But this is that thing where the
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  Speaker 1: kid that is a really challenging kid in class is
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  Speaker 1: good for three minutes, and the teacher says, oh, I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to give you a gold star. I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: give you a merit of ward for assembly on Friday,
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  Speaker 1: and the kids are sitting there going the teachers only
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  Speaker 1: doing this because that kid never gets one and they
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  Speaker 1: needed to find an execute like. The kids can see it,
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  Speaker 1: and even the one who gets it can. But I
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  Speaker 1: think the number one reason that we praise our kids
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  Speaker 1: is because it feels like it's right to say nice things.
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  Speaker 1: I feel like that's what we're supposed to do.
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  Speaker 2: So I know you're saying all of this, but this
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  Speaker 2: is ingrained in society totally and so deeply, and I
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  Speaker 2: think but most people would really struggle with the idea
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  Speaker 2: that we are not supposed to praise our kids specifically.
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  Speaker 2: Is there any science behind this, because this is.
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  Speaker 1: Big Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to step through
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  Speaker 1: maybe three or four research articles in thirty seconds or
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  Speaker 1: less for each one. This is not a doctor's this
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  Speaker 1: is not a doctor's desk episode, but it's really important.
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  Speaker 1: So in the early nineteen nineties, one of my favorite
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  Speaker 1: studies on praise was published. It was really smart. A
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  Speaker 1: study by a guy called Wolfmeier, and what he found
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  Speaker 1: is he called it the paradoxical effects of praise and
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  Speaker 1: criticism on perceived ability. Essentially, what he found is once
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  Speaker 1: kids get to about the age of five or six,
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  Speaker 1: when we praise them and tell them how good they are.
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  Speaker 1: I mentioned this a little bit earlier, but I want
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  Speaker 1: to go into a bit about why they actually think
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  Speaker 1: I mustn't be very good if you have to give
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  Speaker 1: me praise around this. And the way it works is
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  Speaker 1: it's kind of like I'm going to infer low ability
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  Speaker 1: to myself if you're telling me I'm great, like or if.
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  Speaker 2: I'm great doing this and I know that I've only
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  Speaker 2: done a mediocre job, then I actually don't need to
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  Speaker 2: try any harder to get the same.
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  Speaker 1: It can do that as well. Yeah, yeah, but I
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  Speaker 1: would imagine it's kind of like sitting at the dinner
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  Speaker 1: table and your parents are saying, Oh, this broccoli, Oh,
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  Speaker 1: my goodness, I've never had broccoli like this. Kid, You've
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  Speaker 1: got to try this broccoli. It is amazing. Oh I'm
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: putting it in my mouth now. Oh the broccoli is so good.
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  Speaker 1: And as a child, you're looking here, parent going if
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: you're trying to sell it that hard broccoli must be
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the most disgusting thing on the face of the earth.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: I'm never going to eat broccoli. So there's a paradoxical
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  Speaker 1: effect that is, the more we pump it up, the
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  Speaker 1: more the kids are like, yeah right now. There's a
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  Speaker 1: twenty fourteen study that was done by a guy called
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: Eddie Bremmelman and his colleagues, and this is a really
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: interesting one as well. That's not beautiful, that's incredibly beautiful.
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  Speaker 1: The adverse impact of inflated praise on children with low
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  Speaker 1: self esteem. So what they've basically said is, with kids
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  Speaker 1: who have low self esteem, based on you know, from
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  Speaker 1: Meyer's study, the last thing we want to do is
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  Speaker 1: give praise to kids with low self esteem, because the
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  Speaker 1: paradoxical effect is that they are going to think they're
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  Speaker 1: even worse. Right. But what we do instead, according to
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  Speaker 1: broum Woman, is we give inflated praise to those with
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  Speaker 1: the lowest self esteem. So if I feel lousy about
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  Speaker 1: myself and I've got a parent saying oh, that is
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  Speaker 1: such a brilliant job, Oh you are you are amazing,
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  Speaker 1: You did such a good job on that, as the
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  Speaker 1: kid with low self esteem I'm going, Wow, I must
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  Speaker 1: really suck because they are trying so hard to make
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  Speaker 1: me feel good about this, which means that their perception
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: of me is that I'm terrible at it. And what
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  Speaker 1: the research has found was that inflated praise decreases challenge
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: seeking in children with low self esteem, and it has
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  Speaker 1: the opposite effect on kids with high self esteem. But
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you don't worry about praising the kids with high self esteem,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: right because they already feel awesome about life and they're
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: going to do whatever they do anyway. So that was
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: a really fascinating one. And while I could run through
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of others, I'm just going to mention
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  Speaker 1: one more because it really is the the praise research synthesis.
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  Speaker 1: This is the one that pulls it all together. It's
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: actually about twenty years old now, but it's just so
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  Speaker 1: so good. It's called the Effects of Praise on Children's
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Intrinsic Motivation, a review and synthesis by a lady called
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Handelong now a handle on Corpus and Mark Lepper
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: from Stanford, And what they've effectively found is that the
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  Speaker 1: more we praise kids, the more we reduce their intrinsic
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  Speaker 1: motivation and the less likely it is that they're going
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  Speaker 1: to be creative or curious or motivated, And all we're
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  Speaker 1: really doing is promoting comparison and competition. We've got to
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  Speaker 1: stop praising our kids.
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  Speaker 2: This reminds me of some of the conversations we've had
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: with Alfie Kohane on the podcast. He talks a lot
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: about intrinsic motivation and how praise and rewards specifically can
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: lessen that in our kids.
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  Speaker 1: So I shared all this with these parents, and their
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: heads were spinning their life. What are we supposed to say?
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you say? How do we support our
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: kids and you know, kind of let them know that
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: we recognize the effort?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah?
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: How do we do that without saying you're a great kid?
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: And the Carrol Dweck research on mindset is all about
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: praising the out praising the effort, not the outcome. But
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  Speaker 1: I think that these studies and several others are strong
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: enough to call that profoundly into question. I don't think
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: that Carol Dweck has that right. I don't think praise
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: is necessary at all. What were you told to do
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: when a kid came to you in an early childcare
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: setting and they did something great. Maybe it was a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: painting that it was drawing, maybe it was helping somebody,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: but they were really they were looking for some feedback,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: they were looking for some affirmation, or they just wanted
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: to show you the cool thing that they'd done.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Ask questions, lots of questions, like what, so, how do
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: you feel about what you did?
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Look at my painting? Do you like it? Well? How
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: do you feel about it?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Or acknowledge what we see so specifically, So if it's
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: a painting, for instance, it'd be like, Wow, you've used
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: lots of blue in this painting and then you've got
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: this tiny pop of red. You know, how do you
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: feel about? How do you feel about what you've done?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: It feels a lot more effortful than good job, totally
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: great painting, and it.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Doesn't come naturally. No, Like when they first were teaching
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: me how to do it, it felt so robotic and
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: rope because I was kind of following a screech.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's right, Yeah, you've got it needed to happen.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you said it. You have to practice,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: you have to practice, and even hearing you say it
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: then it was kind of like, oh that there's a
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: bit of cringe to that. I've worked on this for
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: twenty plus years with our kids. I mean, I've been
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: thinking about it deeply for twenty plus years. And I
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: don't know if you've noticed what I say when the
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: kids come into the kitchen and they say, Dad, Dad,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I got an A minus or I got an A plus,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: or I thought I was going to fail but I
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: ended up with a B plus. I mean, they don't
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: even have to have kicked it out of the park.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: They're just really really happy with the result that they got.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Have you noticed what I say to them?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: You say, how do you feel about that?
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Normally I won't ask the question straight away, though.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: Normally I'll reflect what I'm seeing. I'll say what I see.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: So when they're bouncing off, I'm really happy about that, yeah,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: And I'll say, oh, you seem so stoked, and I'll
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: give them a great and I say, look at the
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: smile on your face. That must have felt so good
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: when you got that result. And so what I'm describing
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to them is what i'm seeing on their face, what
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing in their behavior as a result of the
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: grade or the fact that they won the race, or
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: they got to result somewhere, they got the play and
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: the part in the play. And the cool thing about
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: that is it works when they're disappointed as well. They
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: come into the kitchen, they're devastated because they failed. They've
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: got to see or whatever, and I'll say, Wow, it
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: looks like that one really hurt. Or it sounds like
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: you expected to get a better result and this hasn't
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: worked out for you. And what that does is it
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: takes away all of the evaluation. It takes away all
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: of that. My parents are trying to manipulate me into
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: eating the broccoli. My parents are trying to prove to
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: me that I'm smart, because the thing we want to
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: do is we want to get reassurance. Right want to
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: say to the kids, Oh, but you're a smart kid.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: It must have just been one of those days. What happened?
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Why we kind of give them the feedback That doesn't work.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So I would say, the best thing you can do
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: is just point out here's what I'm seeing. You seem
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: so excited. Wow, that looks like that really hurt. And
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: then once they've given their own feedback to you about
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: how they feel about it, whether it was great, or not.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: Then you can say, well, you know what, I just
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: love you like crazy, give me a hug, congratulations on
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the grade. Or you might say, oh, well that must
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: have hurt. Come and give me a hug. Let's talk
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: about what we can do next time so that this
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen again. I presume you don't want to get
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: more c's. I presume you don't want to miss out
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: on that thing that's important to you, and you start
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: to problem solve. In fact, even when they do well,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: you start to problem solve. You got that a how
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: did you get it? What can we do to make
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: sure that you keep getting this? Because it feels pretty
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: done good, doesn't it. And so the conversation is qualitatively different.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: It's not praise anymore. They've done their own praising, and
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: now you can just have a conversation about what you see,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: how they feel, how they got there, and what might
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: happen next time to get results that are in line
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: with what they're looking for in life.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: So, if this is the avenue that we're taking with
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: them children, how do we get them to adults who
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: actually don't need the evaluation of others, They don't need
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: the praise from other people. They don't need the recognition.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I actually think this is the process. See when I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: say to my child, ah, I can see on your face,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: this must have lit you up when you got that outcome.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: What my child then does is they say, oh, yeah,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I am really pumped. I'm so happy. I did a
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: great job. In fact, I'll usually say to me, Dad,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: I worked so hard, I studied, I ran, I practiced,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I did this blah blah blah. I did all this
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: stuff and I got the outcome. And then I get
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: to say, well, what does that tell us? What does
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: that teach you? So what are we going to do
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: next time to make sure that we get the same thing?
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And they're doing or they're actually hearing their in a voice,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: and they're looking inwards for their evaluations of their outcomes,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: their evaluation of their worth as a person, rather than
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: looking to me. What I'm doing insteads I'm supporting them
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: as they look inside. And the cool thing then is
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: once they've done that, I can give them that hard
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: and say, you know what, so proud of you. I'm
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: not proud of you because of the result. I'm proud
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: of you because of the way you're thinking about this,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: and so this is a they've already done their praising.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I can say anything after that doesn't really matter. But
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the critical thing here is they're learning to listen to
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: their voice, and as they do that, they become more
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: confident in themselves, which means they are less likely look
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: outward for evaluation.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: What I love about this process is you talk about
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: that in a voice, you're actually helping them to express
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: that in a voice, yeah, and helping them to recognize
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: that it's their voice, not yours.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: We really hope that this has been an informative and
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: maybe mindset changing conversation about the perils of praise and
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: what we can do instead. Thanks so much for joining
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: us on the Happy Families podcast. It's produced by Justin
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: For more information about making your family happier, you can
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: find an entire chapter about this topic in my book
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Nine Ways to a Resilient Child. It's online or in
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: bookstores wherever you grab your books. And for more about
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: making your family happier, check us out at happy families
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: dot com dot au or on Facebook at doctor Justin
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Colson's Happy Families