Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Hollywood Friends Cleanse, Narcissism and Gaslighting with Dr. Leslie Dobson

Transcript

Hollywood Friends Cleanse, Narcissism and Gaslighting with Dr. Leslie Dobson · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
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• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: When you're on the road, when you're on the go,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Juicy Scoop is the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: her real life, Mr. Saving Serial Data, and Serial Sister.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: here is a juicy one, a first-time Juicy Scooper, but
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: a smart pretty lady. I have Dr. Leslie Dobson, psychologist.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: You know about psychopaths, serial killers, narcissistic, shitty friends, the
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: whole lot. Welcome to Juicy Scoop.
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: We are going to get into it. First of all,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: you have a book that I want to share. Let's
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: just talk about that real quick. Tell us what it is.
• 1:32
  Speaker 5: I wrote a book called The Friend Cleanse.
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: What I noticed was during COVID, even though COVID was horrifying,
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: people really enjoyed it interpersonally.
• 1:40
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:42
  Speaker 5: And they were relaxed.
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: They were reserving their energy and they were appreciating not
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: being pushed into these events with social friends that were
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: toxic and sucking them dry. And so I started thinking
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: about this idea that once we are out of COVID,
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: what are we going to do? Because now I'm seeing
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: everyone jump back into these relationships and they're drained and
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: they're complaining and they hate everyone, but they're still going.
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  Speaker 4: So now we didn't have that external moment to say, no,
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  Speaker 4: we need to find it in ourselves.
• 2:09
  Speaker 5: So that was what the book is.
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: Let's step back.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: That is really interesting. The COVID breakup, the COVID friendship breakup.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: And how some people, you know, it was really great.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And I remember Jennifer Aniston said something about it. She goes, well,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I've loved it because I haven't, I couldn't work in
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: the beginning of it when they were so strict about it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: I couldn't work, but neither could anyone else. So as
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: an actor or a creator or whatever, there is that
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: competition that happens where if you're being lazy, if I'm
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: not going on the road and doing standup or whatever,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: I said to him like, you know, heart of myself
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: because I see my friends doing it. And I'm like,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: come on. But when nobody could do it, It was
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: kind of nice.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean, just for that. Obviously, people are
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: going to get on me. It was awful. No, I
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: understand people couldn't work or some people had to work,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: which wasn't fair either. But I'm just saying if you're
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: in that kind of thing where you weren't blowing someone off,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: you weren't being lazy, you just couldn't do it, that
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: was the only positive to it really. Right.
• 3:13
  Speaker 5: People were happier in one of the worst times of
• 3:15
  Speaker 5: our lives.
• 3:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: And it's strange to say. I picture Jennifer Aniston almost
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: dying on the morning show.
• 3:22
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 3:23
  Speaker 5: But that's true.
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: This is such a great opportunity for us to realize, hey,
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: we needed this external permission to say no to people
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: we don't like.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: So tell us about that. What have you discovered? What
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: is realizing that? I mean, mostly with my friends. I've
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: had a couple of friends that just said, There were
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: just some people that were in the circle, the peripheral friends,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: and those people they didn't see, they didn't keep up with.
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  Speaker 2: And then they were like, wow, I don't really miss
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: that person. Not because they were a horrible person, but
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: they just didn't really miss them. Or they realized the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: time that they gained by not having that person, they
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: put towards something better, like their kids, or they weren't
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: on the phone all day, talking in their closet, telling
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: their kid to go away because that friend– Wasn't that
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: like intoxicating gossipy friend that you might have had or whatever?
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Like what I offer in the book is it's almost
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: journal-like where you can actually write down all your friends.
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  Speaker 5: We describe them.
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  Speaker 4: Like are you the texting friend that will never really
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: show up? Are you the long-term friend that once a
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: year we can have a meaningful conversation? But if we
• 4:31
  Speaker 4: really start to define people's ability to be there for
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: us and then what we need– then we don't waste
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: our energy being sad with these expectations that are never met.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: So what, because I just saw something on TikTok where
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: it was like, where it was, you know, a thing
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: kind of evaluating the friend too. Like, are you the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: only one that reaches out? When was the last time
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: someone reached out? And sometimes it's just kind of hard
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: to accept. that you're like, I guess this person doesn't
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: really want to hang. And you have to be like,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: and you kind of got to go through your texts
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  Speaker 2: and be like, okay, I was the last person that
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: always initiated it, or I was the last person that
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: tried to make plans the last four times. And catch
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: a clue, bitch. There are times where you're like, catch
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: a clue, even about your own self. They're just not
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: that into you. That book about the guy, Oh, 100%.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: He's not that into you. Well, sometimes your friends just
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: aren't that into it. Or in being in Hollywood or
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: podcasting or whatever, you are the person that's useful because
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: they come on Juicy Scoop. And that has tapped out
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: for them. And it is no longer that necessary.
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: And I thought we were really friends. I had a
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: higher value of the connection and the friendships. And then
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I realized, oh, no, it was just to come on
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: the show. And at first I was really devastated because it, like,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: cracked open this year. But now I'm just so grateful
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: that I'm not wasting another year or two with people
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: that were truly never really my friend. I might have
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: even been their enemy and I didn't know it.
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: Who you surround yourself with shows who you are and
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: your character, right?
• 6:19
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I really.
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: And as a psychologist, I struggle with it so much.
• 6:23
  Speaker 7: But I had to say goodbye to people I really
• 6:25
  Speaker 7: loved because of who they were friends with. Yeah.
• 6:29
  Speaker 5: And that was the boundary I had to set.
• 6:31
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: If you want to be in that, if you want
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: a social climb or you want to be around somebody
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: who isn't lifting me up when I'm not there.
• 6:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: You don't get to be around me.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: It just still really bothers me that people just don't
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: seem to care.
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: They don't.
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: And I'm shocked. I mean, as a therapist, I probably
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: see 10 or 15 people a week in therapy right now.
• 6:54
  Speaker 5: I am shocked.
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: We assume people think about us 90% of the day. No,
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: they think about us 1%. They don't have the capacity.
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: They're consumed with their lives. They're assholes. Most people are very,
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  Speaker 4: very selfish and self-oriented. And it always shocks me, even
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: in husband-wife dynamics that I see all the time.
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  Speaker 5: They, what's that book? Women are from Mars.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: It's so true.
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  Speaker 2: Or men are from Mars and women are from Venus.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: It's so true. People do not have the capacity to
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  Speaker 4: understand other people's thinking or communication. And then when I
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  Speaker 4: see it in practice, I'm like, whoa, you really don't
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  Speaker 4: give a fuck about that person. And you really don't
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: have any insight into what's going on. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes, yes, with my husband too, sometimes I'm
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  Speaker 2: just like, there is no, I know he doesn't think
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  Speaker 2: about me nearly as much as I'm thinking about him
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: and how to make this better or this bothered me.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I just have to, and I'm trying to tell myself
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, if I can just accept that, then
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: maybe I'll have an easier day. Right.
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: That's my problem too. Like I'm ride or die friendship.
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  Speaker 4: And when you can't meet me at that level, I
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: don't know what to do with you.
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  Speaker 7: Right.
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  Speaker 4: Like that's, and that's the boundary I set for myself.
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: You're going to be ride or die or you're out. Right.
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  Speaker 4: Because that's the life I want to live. I want
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: to be able to 100% trust the people in my circle. Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: And this is such a cutthroat industry that you really
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: have to.
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  Speaker 2: I never really had experienced something like this in Hollywood.
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  Speaker 2: And I never had really been a part of it
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: where it was such a deliberate like planned to like
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: take me down and hurt my reputation or hurt my
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: business and hurt my personal and professional relationships. He had
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: all the bombs lined up like a dictator. And then
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: when the one thing happened where I supported these two
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: other women, that's when he pressed the buttons. And I
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: figured that all out later, you know, and then other
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: people are like, oh, stop talking about it. Move on, loser.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And it's always other women that are like, move on.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: And then you wonder why we're not further along. It's
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: because we don't have each other's back.
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Or we do when it benefits us.
• 9:09
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: When it doesn't benefit, it's very few people that step
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: out on a limb for something that, you know, it's
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: always like when I'm like, you know, when a celebrity
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: is like, and this charity is very dear to my
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: heart because now I have this disease. And I'm like, well,
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: where were you before?
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: And like.
• 9:26
  Speaker 5: It's vapid.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: You know, it's so, it's like, and when I chose
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: a charity, I'm like, I was, it's for foster care.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I was never in foster care. I never
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: adopted a foster care child, but like, but I, I
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: know this is really important. And cause I always thought
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: about that. I'm always like, it's always someone's charity. That's
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: like their foundation.
• 9:44
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Kind of like, okay, is it really that amazing that
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: you're doing or, or even like my sister has it
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: or whatever, which is still nice, but still.
• 9:54
  Speaker 8: Right. Right.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Like until it affects you, you don't care.
• 9:58
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: It drives me crazy.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 5: It drives me crazy. I mean, that's part of the
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: reason I wrote this little book.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: And I just strive to empower women to stand back
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: and say– What the fuck?
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: What do you want? What is really happening around you?
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: And let's really have that moment of, uh-uh, this doesn't
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: work for me anymore.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: So in doing the book, is there some examples that
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: you can kind of share of where someone kind of realized? Yeah.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, I share a few examples, but a lot
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: of it is working with psychopaths, being manipulated.
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: How do you use.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: That to understand when there are red flags around you?
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: You've been so gaslit that you're not trusting your intuition.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: And you're riding along in this relationship with someone that
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: you need to step back and really reflect on that.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And like, what are some of those or some examples
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: or clues that you should be aware of?
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: For me, I think narcissism is such a huge issue
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: in our society. And the concept of triangulation was huge
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: for me. And it's been huge to teach my clients.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: But Explain that.
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: A narcissist will always have a triangle, right?
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: I say he because it's usually a guy. But he'll
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: never feel the power enough to take down the spouse
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: or the other person. He'll always have a third power
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: to make him bigger. And that might be a threat.
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: That might be I have photos of you doing something
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: that you can't see. Or it might be I have
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: a person that saw you doing something. But it's always
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: going to be this third triangular entity so that you
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: feel smaller and you feel weaker. Right. Yeah. And then you're,
• 11:31
  Speaker 4: that's the gaslighting part, right? Then you're slowly like, well,
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: I can't combat if he has something that I don't
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: know about. What if I was drunk one night and
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: I did something? And you just get smaller and smaller
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: and smaller.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And I want to move on, but thank God I
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: do have people that are like, Heather, you can talk
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: about it as much as you want. Like, how am
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: I supposed to look back at like when they came
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: on my boat and we celebrated their birthday or they
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: celebrated mine? How am I supposed to not look back
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: and realize that they probably were talking shit about me
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: on the way to the event. Right.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: They probably were.
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: That's the, I mean, that's the intuition, right? Your gut's
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: telling you.
• 12:09
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: They probably were, but I don't want to believe it
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: because reality sucks sometimes. But once you come to terms
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: with that, man, it opens up real relationships and real
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: connections and really trusting it.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: You want to just think about it. Do you watch
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Housewives at all?
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 12:25
  Speaker 7: Okay.
• 12:25
  Speaker 5: So Housewives is the ultimate of.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Like You know, we were growing up and you would
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: talk behind your girlfriend's back on the phone. Were you
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: ever of the age, I think you're younger than I am,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: where they would do this trickery? Then this is probably,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: you're too young for this. So a lot of us
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: had our own lines, okay? That was like a big deal.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: If you could have your own line, whatever. I had
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: my own line because my parents used the main line
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: for real estate. So my sister and I shared a line. Anyway,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I never did this to someone, but I had it
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: happen to me where they would call you And they
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: would start talking shit. You'd start talking shit about Jennifer
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: or whatever. And there was a way you could do
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a three-way call and then Jennifer would be listening, which
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: is really what is housewives. They hear what you say
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: in the confession or they see what you say at
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: lunch and they see it months later. It really is.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: And now it's podcasting. Now I actually did an episode
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: where like, I heard what you said about me on
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: your podcast. And that's why I said the real housewives
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: of podcasting and podcasts were like, Now everybody, this, you know,
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and eventually there'll probably be some AI chip that people
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: can now think what you're actually saying as you see
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: them walk up and you're like, that skirt is awful.
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: I would love that.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I would not love that. I don't, I want my
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: thoughts to be private, please. Already I share all the
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: thoughts that come in my head, but there are still
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: some that I'm like, that we'll know and we'll know.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: But like, yeah, I think that is what is so
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: You are like selling your soul to the devil to
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: be on one of those shows because or you're just
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: accepting this is the new reality that you're going to
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: know what everybody actually thinks about you. And sometimes I'm like,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: I don't want to know. Right. Like I had to
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: stop looking at the hate groups and it was very tempting.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: And I finally one day just treated it like alcohol.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I will not look. And I'm like,
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: haven't looked since December 24th. Because it's really hard. You
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: start to hate yourself.
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: It's really hard, and people are vicious and diabolical.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: But what kind of person becomes a housewife? I mean,
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: is it the part of the person that's acting or
• 14:33
  Speaker 4: a genuine presentation of somebody that wants to be seen
• 14:37
  Speaker 4: in that light?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you're the psychologist. What do you think?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: What's the prototype? I think they're all pretty narcissists. I
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: think they're all pretty A-types. I think some people are
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: better humans than others and have better intentions than others.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: I think some wanted to be actors and never pursued it.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I think some hate their husband and secretly hate their
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: husband and want the world to see what a dick
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: he is so that eventually either he'll feel bad, which
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: never happens. He normally just resents her for putting him
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: in this position to be seen. And then when they
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: get divorced, she has a paycheck and she has some
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: fun and people treat her like a rock star at
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: BravoCon and she can sell a line of leggings or
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: whatever and kind of get something else cooking.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: Do they make that much money though? I think it's.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: More about the becoming– leading to other things. Because they
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: don't really make the real money until they're like season
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: four or five. If you can make it that far.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: So I think about Tamara and, you know, I've seen
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: Tamara out at the bars and in areas in Orange County.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: And she doesn't present the way she does on TV.
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: Like there's so much acting involved and a desire to
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: be– portrayed in a certain way.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: So do you think she is more low-key?
• 15:53
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: Definitely. I mean, she's not on a slip and slide
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: with her tits out at the bar in Laguna. She's
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: very reserved.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: She's very performative.
• 16:05
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And, you know, we were close at one time, and
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: she would tell me, like, I'm a producer's dream. I
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: am a company girl. Like I will do what it
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: takes to make it happen. However, it works to an extent,
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: you know, but I do think the audience is way
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: more sophisticated now and they don't really appreciate that type
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: of craziness when let's do tequila shots and take off
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: our tops. And we're like, we know you don't really
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: want to do that. But that's where all the drinking
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: comes into play because these women aren't professional actors or comedians.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: And they can't really bring it or be silly or
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: they are nervous. So then they do over drink. And
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: then people are like, oh, it's unattractive. Or then they
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: become sober and people go, well, you're boring. Well, Jesus,
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: what do you want from me? Oh, yes.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Like New York.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:01
  Speaker 7: Leah.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Leah.
• 17:02
  Speaker 5: She's got, I mean, she's got a backbone, but yeah,
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: she got more boring.
• 17:06
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: And then she blamed everybody for, you know, now she's
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: like wanting to like sue the Bravo or whatever, saying
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: that you encouraged me to go naked and throw the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: tiki torches and.
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: That was quite an episode.
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah. But it was more fun than what it
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: was like. It was.
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: Like, I don't... I mean, there's science behind how we
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: need really bad TV as women to calm our brains down. Like,
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: we need to counteract it. Our husbands are different.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: But what are the husbands?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Like, that's what the husbands want, what? The sports and stuff?
• 17:39
  Speaker 8: The sports.
• 17:39
  Speaker 5: Like, the simple things.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: Because it keeps their mind at a lower level. But
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: we need something more engaging and dramatic to actually calm
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: our minds. It's kind of like ADHD and the stimulant.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: I won't say which franchise because I don't want to
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: be mean and I'm no stranger to plastic surgery myself.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: But there was an episode of a show on and
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: my now 18-year-old son walked in and he goes, who
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: are these people? He goes, they all look like the
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: people in Whoville. My God, they really did. And they
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: were fighting. So they were all like, They all like
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: were lifting up their face and they all had like
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the same nose and the protruded lips and like the
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: blonde hair. And it was just– and I was like, yeah,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: but– You know, sometimes I like it. Sometimes it calms
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: me down and sometimes it puts me to sleep and
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: sometimes I'm like– I get a little tired of it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: I feel so peaceful when they are full out screaming
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: and sometimes when they're physically abusing each other.
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: I'm so calm.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why when friendships do end in real life,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I will say I'm not being paid by Bravo to
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: have a lunch with you and move on and I'm
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: going to invite you to my charity event now because
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: we're all filming. Right. But I also think sometimes do
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: you think there's a possibility that housewives have become so
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: much part of our life as women that watch it
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: that in our own lives we get overly dramatic? Because
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I've had some moments where I'm like, I'm sorry, are
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: the cameras here? Why the fuck are you acting like this?
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 19:16
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: And I've seen this like working in prisons and all
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: these bad places. When you work with inmates more, crimes
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: become more OK to you. Being a bad person becomes
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: more OK. You know, if you're inundated with Hollywood and
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: the housewives, being dramatic becomes more OK.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: is so organized, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: an early bird, buying one present a week from now
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: till Christmas. which makes budgeting less stressful I can buy
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: in store or online from Macaulay.ie for home delivery or
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: free click and collect so easy gifts they'll cherish at
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: prices you'll love.
• 20:04
  Speaker 8: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 20:07
  Speaker 8: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 20:10
  Speaker 8: have faced tremendous setbacks and yet somehow have found a
• 20:15
  Speaker 8: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: I'm heading to the Emmys and I have police complaints
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: filed against me.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: what would you do if it was given back?
• 20:28
  Speaker 8: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 20:31
  Speaker 8: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: He said, I have a work dad.
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: I need a home dad.
• 20:36
  Speaker 8: What happens next?
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: When I came in, he started crying.
• 20:39
  Speaker 8: Everybody in life encounters hardships. What defines them is not
• 20:43
  Speaker 8: those hard moments that they go through. It's about what
• 20:46
  Speaker 8: happens next.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all. I realized how valuable
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: every day was. You're worth the work.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: You can use your voice even if it shakes.
• 20:55
  Speaker 8: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 20:59
  Speaker 8: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Now, tell me how you got started in your profession
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: and how you did end up working with prisoners. And
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: is that something you wanted or was that the bottom
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: of the barrel?
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: No, I wanted to. I was the Orange County, typical
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: Orange County white girl, totally naive. Everyone told me I
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: couldn't do these grand things I wanted to do. And
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: so I just said, fuck off. I'm going to go
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: to the L.A. County jail.
• 21:33
  Speaker 5: I'm going to find someone there who will train me.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So where did you go for undergraduate training?
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: Oh, undergraduate, it was Colorado and England.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: And then I realized there's a five-year wait list for
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: a doctorate in England because it's socialized.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: Education.
• 21:47
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: So I came back.
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: So I went to Loma Linda in San Bernardino.
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: And then I decided that I wanted to work with
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: the most criminally insane, violent people in the entire world.
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: And I was going to make it happen. And I
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: got them to start the first program.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 22:04
  Speaker 5: I mean, that was the craziest year of my life.
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, the The apples being thrown at my head,
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: flaccid penises, pee and poo.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: When you wanted to do that was being that you're
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: an attractive woman. Was that something that they were like, please,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: this is straight out of like Silence of the Lambs
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: because Jodie Foster was young and attractive.
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: I watched that last night.
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: Oh.
• 22:27
  Speaker 5: Just to help me sleep.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: Um, no, they just, they were worried about me being naive,
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: which I was. I caused a lot of problems. Like I,
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: one day I passed out gum in all of my,
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: in a group to a bunch of inmates.
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 22:42
  Speaker 5: And they had to lock down the facility.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 22:44
  Speaker 7: Because you can use gum to block your lock of
• 22:47
  Speaker 7: your cell.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: So then they could just all get out.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, they never told you that's a no-no?
• 22:52
  Speaker 5: They never told me that.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: No, because I had no experience. I was so naive.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: So I learned the hard way.
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: And then I became really fascinated with how how dark
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: and deep these people are.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: And what is, like, what is your thought? Like, what makes,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: I assume it's all different things. It could be, you know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: that they were abused. Other times, like Matt Murphy said,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: in the serial killers he's dealt with, oftentimes they're just
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: very spoiled, actually. They got everything they wanted as a kid.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: What have you found? What have you found to be,
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: is there any similarity or.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it depends on location too. So a
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: lot of my work is in California, Los Angeles. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: I have found a lot that just grew up in
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: really shitty environments. And we couldn't do anything about it.
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: They learned to be gang members and that's how they
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: had to survive.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Because that was their family. That's all they knew.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: All they knew, right? We had to kill or be killed.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: But then there were individuals who at five years old
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: were ripping apart animals to taste the hearts. And So
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: we have this pattern of childhood deviance.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: And if you found your kid– because I always think
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: about that. There's always like– do you remember the movie
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: The Good Son? It was with Macaulay Culkin. Oh, yes.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: It's a very juicy one where this woman takes on
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: her nephew, I believe, because the two parents have passed.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And also his little sister, somebody had passed. And then
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: she realizes that maybe this kid, the nephew– was responsible
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: for these deaths. And it's very, very well done. It's
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: a juicy scoop history movie. But I think knowing what
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: we know now, if you did see your child hurting
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: your pet or whatever, what should you do at that moment,
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: knowing that this is a pattern to go to a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: much worse place?
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: Well, I think you look at all the signs, right?
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: You look at bedwetting, fire starting.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: Why bedwetting?
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Bedwetting is very.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: Common with night terrors when children are psychopathic.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: You look at all these different signs.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: You look at their relationships. But, I mean, right away
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: you get them in to see, like, a pediatric or
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: a child psychologist.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: But I've had clients where you have to remove the
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: knives from the home. I mean, you have to prepare
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: that this little boy, girl may be psychotic and may
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: kill a sister.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, is there a way to save this kid? Like, what?
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Do you have success stories where they were showing all this,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: but they got the right therapy or the right medication
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: and grew out of it?
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Sometimes. Sometimes.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: A lot of the times the parents suck and they
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: don't follow through on the care that's recommended. And then
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: the kid gets stuck in the system. But some, you know,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: if we get like a wealthy family to do and
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: they're really devoted.
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: To curbing this kid's behavior.
• 25:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: They start to come out of it.
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: They get interests and they usually still have this dark
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: side as they grow up, but they know how to
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: handle it.
• 26:02
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: Like Dexter style.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, um, so have you ever, um, and so, and
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: then what, I assume there's different kinds of serial killers
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: that like, like I always remember that one movie, um,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: and I, I don't know if it was based on
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: true story, but it was Sandra Bullock and Kiefer Sutherland,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I think. And they stop at a gas station and
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: she sees this guy and he, he has like a
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: cool bracelet on. And it's like one of those big
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: gas stations, like, you know, where there's so restaurants and
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: like everybody stops there on the way to like Vegas
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: or whatever. And she goes, I really like your bracelet.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: And he goes, Oh, I make them and I have them.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: And she goes, Oh, cool. I think my boyfriend would
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: like that. He, and then he never sees her again.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And he's, screaming and you know it's been four hours
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: and so he goes and the whole point of the
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: story was it was this guy that just kind of
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: was like I wonder if I could kidnap and kill
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: someone I just want to see if I can try
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: it like nothing had led up like there wasn't something
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: prior to that there wasn't just like there's the serial
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: killers that like it's the gateway right it's like they're
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: peeping toms then they maybe sexually assault then they maybe
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: kill someone but then eight years later and then Like,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: is there any.
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: I think there's a fantasy that just starts to grow.
• 27:23
  Speaker 7: Uh-huh.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: You know, and especially in media now. Like, we put
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: them on the media. Like, people– they feel like if
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: they're going to go out, they're going to go out big.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: But with serial killing specifically, they usually– I mean, the
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: ones I've always talked to– not always, but we're not friends.
• 27:43
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: They've been really interested in it for a long time,
• 27:47
  Speaker 7: figuring it out, sorting out.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: And they found the kill the most stimulating part of
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: their life. And then the second stimulation was hiding in
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: the crowd as people found the body. Oh.
• 27:58
  Speaker 5: And then the third was now finding the next victim.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: So it was, you know, there are brain changes, there
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: are emotional changes, but they get off on it. And
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: they've got to keep building it and growing it.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Like, are you familiar with the Long Island story? murderer guy,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: the Giglio Beach or something. That guy who's the architect
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: who all the, they were sex workers that came to his,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: and it went on for years and they didn't really
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: get the attention that they needed because the girls were
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: sugar babies or sex workers or whatever. And, you know,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: now his wife, obviously divorced, not obviously, some maybe wouldn't,
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: but she divorced him. And they're being approached to like,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: you know, be on shows or whatnot and people think
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: that's wrong. And I'm like, well, I mean, I would
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: like to know what their point of view is. Like,
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: did they ever suspect? Did they ever think? Have you
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: ever talked to family of these people? And how do
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: you rectify that if you're the mother of someone like
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: this or something?
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: I have to say some of the mothers are the
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: most difficult because they're so enmeshed with the children. They
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: believe them and they enable the behavior. Like, OK, he
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: had child porn on his phone, but he never met
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: the children. Oh, but he did send dick pics to them,
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: but he never met them. So he's not that bad.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: And these are the conversations I have with them. And
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: I realize, OK, this is useless. Like we have to
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: bring this guy consequences.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: But it's the family can be difficult.
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: Some family members just they enable the behavior.
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: They're totally ignorant of the behavior or. or they ignore it.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: And it's until the police and bigger things get involved
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: that they have to say, okay, let me pay attention.
• 29:47
  Speaker 5: We have all these, now we're going dark, should we?
• 29:49
  Speaker 6: No.
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: I'm just thinking about mass shootings.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: If you look back on all of the mass shootings,
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: we could easily have told you they were going to
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: happen now that we look back.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Well, the couple of the one boy, they're on trial now,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the parents.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: And saying they should have known. But then I was
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: reading some of the comments and they're like, well, shouldn't
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: have the school known too then? Because he drew it.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: He drew disturbing things like on a math test.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: So didn't the, didn't the school get the math test?
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And didn't he turn in the paper? Like, and all
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: the kids that were, I mean, I think the parents
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: are awful too, but like, yeah, I mean, everybody, you know,
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: but so often you tell somebody and you tell them,
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: and that person just is like, don't, don't care or
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: don't think you're, think you're being dramatic. And you're like, well,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: see something, say something, but that doesn't mean that the
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: person you told gives a shit. They're just someone that
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: someone else hired. Like, People are human and they're fallible
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: and they make mistakes.
• 30:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: But there are clear signs leading up to these behaviors
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: that I wish people would pay attention to. I'm in
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: this threat management group. It's a national threat management group.
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: And I'd say like 95% of threats are stopped before
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: they happen or they make the news. But everyone does
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: a really good job, CIA, FBI, at stopping it. But
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: the ones that actually get to the point of a
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: mass shooting or something that makes the media– We still
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: had all those signs.
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: It was the failure of the government. It was the
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: failure of people to actually stop it before it happened.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: Like, you know, the kid getting all the weapons and
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: dressing in camo and a trench coat with a briefcase
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: at school.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: That's different than another child.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Wait, let's go back to something a little bit lighter. Okay,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: so let's go back to– I think it's really interesting
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: like with– going back to the friend breakup thing.
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Why are women so judgmental of like a female friendship
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: breaking up and like you should get back together? You've
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: been friends for a long time. Yet if you get divorced,
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: someone that you stood in front of a church or
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: whatever and made a legal commitment to stay with forever
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: and had three kids with, if you want to leave
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: that person, they're like, kick him to the curb, girl. Right.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Why do you think that is? Why are we
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: like that?
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: I think because it makes us uncomfortable.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: We don't want to have to shift our dynamics or
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: pick a side.
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: Or develop, you know, a different friend group.
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: It makes us so uncomfortable to have to navigate people
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: that don't like each other.
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: And I just personally don't give a shit.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: I won't be around you if I don't like who
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: you're around. That was a good moment when I came
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: to that conclusion. I felt freed.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Could you kind of explain without naming names what happened?
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: It's happened a few times.
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: But just feeling like Like you were saying, like if
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: I don't reach out, I don't hear back. And I
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: started to feel with like certain friend groups, if I
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: don't initiate the social event or if I don't initiate
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: the texting or the group texting, it's crickets. And then
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: I thought, well, if I pull back, then, you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: F you all. Let's see if you're actually going to
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: reach out. And no one did or one or two
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: people would.
• 33:19
  Speaker 5: And that was my– I was clear. I was like, okay,
• 33:24
  Speaker 5: I'm done. And then– Again, maybe I'm just more of
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: an anxious person.
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: A few months down the line, I would hear from
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: someone and I would be like, no, this is just
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: not good enough for me.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: Like, again, like ride or die. I want it to
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: be fast and hard.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Sometimes I think like I saw this girl on TikTok
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: and I've talked about it before. And I think her
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: name might be a fringe. She created the expression fringe mom.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: And she goes, I'm a fringe mom. And meaning I'm
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: just not in with the group of moms that plan
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: all the stuff and go to mom's night out and whatever.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: But meanwhile, I'm like, well, it's not helping that you're
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: doing a TikTok about it. Like if you're standing on
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: the sideways of a soccer game and you're like, well, guys,
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: this is where I'm sitting by myself. Where all these
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: moms are having fun and I'm left here. And I'm like, well,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: now I wouldn't want to fuck with you either because
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be part of your, you know,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: video that gets 30,000 views. I don't want someone to
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: figure out. And so, so sometimes with that, I'm like, look,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: these moms are really busy too. And you, if you
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: weren't on the initial hookup text on September 8th, when
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: your kid was in kindergarten and now your kid's in
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: fifth grade, Oh, yeah. At the same school, you may never,
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: ever really be part of it. They might not be
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: rude to you, but you're not part of the group.
• 34:54
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: Especially if it's a group that grew up there.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: Or even just started it and, like, maybe you worked
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: and now you're not working, which was kind of my situation. Like,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: when I tried to get back into the school thing after, like,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: my TV show, Chelsea Lately, ended, I had– I was–
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: had a real, like, chip on my shoulder about it.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: I'm like, what? These women– Don't owe me shit. They
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: don't owe me. Let's just give the stay-at-home mom that
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: did everything at the school, let's give them some props.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: It's not their job, along with running the classroom and
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: doing everything else, to be like, you know what? The
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: attorney that's never here is here. So let me make
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: sure that we invite her to dinner. Because they're a
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: little resentful that you get to have this fun life.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: So I think that's awful. A big thing with women, too,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: because there's the stay-at-home moms that do a lot for
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: the school and they have a chip on the shoulder.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: And then the working mom has a chip on her
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: shoulder that she has to go out and work and
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: that she can't go to breakfast with you after. Yeah.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Because she would like to do that. And then the
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: stay-at-home mom is like, well, I would really– Like to
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: go get my hair and makeup done and be on
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: a talk show. So you can fuck off. Like, I
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: just think it's kind of, and sometimes you can be friends.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I have a variety of friends from the school that
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I've been able to, but I finally just said, you
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: know what? This is like, wasn't my moment in life.
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: It's too much work.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: It just, sometimes you just can't have it all. Sometimes
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: you cannot have it all. You can have it. Some
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: people can have it most having it most. But that's
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: what I, maybe not all.
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: I feel like that's, like, that's amazing to say, like
• 36:40
  Speaker 4: to realize it and then act it out, like to
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: stop fighting against the, like the obvious, especially.
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: With school moms, because it's, that's true. The dynamic is gruesome.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like my friend always said, there was this Irish
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: priest that had this expression and she would say it
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: to me. She'd be like, nobody's looking at you. Nobody's
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: thinking about you. Like, And you kind of have to
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: think like nobody's thinking about you. Nobody woke up and
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: was like, you know what? When I go to the
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: fifth grade poet thing, I'm going to snub this mom.
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: I highly– maybe.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe some bitches.
• 37:17
  Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I'm not saying you're delusional, but also like
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: you might be able to get through these times and
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: be like, you know what? It's not about the moms
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: and stuff. But it is– with Facebook, it is hurtful
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: sometimes because we do see that a birthday happened.
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: Right.
• 37:33
  Speaker 8: Right.
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've, I've had those moments where I'm like,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: fuck you. Like, you know, my kid doesn't, you know,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: isn't super popular and you had this party and thank
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: God my kid can't see it, but I saw it,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: you know? And now that my kid, my youngest is 18,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: I am just so happy. And when I look back, no,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I thought the experience would be better. I thought the
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: mom experience with the school and the high school, I
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: have three kids. I thought it would be more fun.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: I thought I would be able to be more involved
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: and still being a working mom. And I wasn't.
• 38:16
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: These are lessons I need to learn because she's seven.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't. And I don't know how much
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: I could have done differently. I finally just kind of accepted. Like,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: I actually was happy when COVID happened.
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Because I can say this now and I don't care
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: because my kid is doing great. But at the end
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: of eighth grade, it was a lot of politics and
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of like, and there was like a friend,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: the one friend I had, like we weren't really friends anymore.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: And the school year was coming and there was going
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: to be all these eighth grade things to do. And
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: I was like, I immediately said, can I go on
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: the bus? Can I be a mom on the bus
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: to go to Disneyland? And they're like, no.
• 39:00
  Speaker 5: I didn't get picked for mine either.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Those moms were already picked or whatever.
• 39:04
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: How do they get picked?
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Well, the reason I wanted to do it is because
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I was afraid he might not have a friend to
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: sit on the bus with. But if the mom was there,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: no one would say anything, right? I'd just sit with
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: my son. And I was like, oh my God. I
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: was so worried about it. And I remember I said,
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: people are not going to like this. I said, God,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: I wish something would happen that would just... cancel all
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: this end of the eighth grade bullshit.
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: 100%.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: I think I said it around March 10th. And March 20th, 2020.
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: Not that it brought on COVID.
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: The world shut down.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: But I was not sad about it.
• 39:44
  Speaker 5: Hey, if you put it in the universe.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: He was like, oh, I never got to go to
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Disneyland and did it. But I had so much anxiety
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: about the parties, the all this. It's like he was
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: OK with it. I just wasn't. And I mean, it's
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: really hard. And so when I hear somebody like my
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: daughter got bullied or like there was this other thing
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: where this this mom that was very that I know
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: that was very like involved. And all of a sudden
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: her daughter was just on the outs, on the outs.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: And she went to the principal and she was like,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. And the principal said,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: pull her out. Put her somewhere. Put her somewhere else.
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: She's never– school is too small.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: It's too painful.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: She can go somewhere else and reinvent herself. And I
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: thought that was like the greatest advice ever because I'm like,
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: you know?
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 40:45
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: You stood up for her.
• 40:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the principal did.
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: The principal stood up for her.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: She lost a paying customer. She lost a mom that
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: did a lot. But she was like, I know how
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: this dynamic works, and she's not going to ingratiate herself again.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Whatever she did, being a dork or whatever, it's just
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: like you've got to start over with these people. You're
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: not going to win them over. And I think that
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: as an adult, you have to tell yourself that too.
• 41:16
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: I think that's great.
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: They don't like me.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to win them over. I'm never going
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: to win them over. They're never going to see the
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: person that this person sees. So let me just hang
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: out with this person who thinks I'm great. Yeah. And
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: these people think I'm a piece of shit or whatever
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: or these people think I'm a dork.
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: Or they're jealous and envious.
• 41:34
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I think that is like– and so– and I also
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: think homeschooling. I used to be the person that made
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: fun of like homeschooling moms and now I'm like fucking
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: I hear you, girl. Like who cares? Because by the
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: time they get to college– People are nice. Yeah. People
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: are mature and they're nice. Right. And then people, oh,
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: that'll make them weird. They won't know how to be social.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, the kids don't know how to be social now.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: They're all at home on their phones anyway. Yeah. So
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: why do they have to see it in their face
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: and like eat lunch alone every day? If they can
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: like eat lunch with you or create your own little–
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Dynamic in your neighborhood or where you know, like my
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: kid is safe. I mean, I do feel like education
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: can be your own experience now between AI and homeschooling
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: and computers and whatever you want as a parent. I
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: think you can take that and do what's right. And
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: just hope that you don't know that you're making the
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: right decision. You'll never, you never will, you know? Yeah,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: I don't know. But a lot of people say, and
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: this was not the case when I grew up, and
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I also notice it somewhat culturally too, no sleepovers.
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: Oh, yes.
• 42:48
  Speaker 5: On my Instagram, that's the most common thing.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: I've never thought of that ever. Our whole life was
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: sleeping over. Like if I didn't have plans, like with
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: a sleeping bag on Friday, leaving it by the side
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: of the school so that I could go home with
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: my friend.
• 43:04
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, I have no plans this weekend. I'd
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: get so depressed. I was like in the seventh grade. Yeah.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: And when did that like become such a no-no just
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: because assaults and stuff would happen? And then– so now
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: people are like it's not worth it. I mean I
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: don't think it's necessary. Why do you need to sleep over?
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I do agree. Why do you need to sleep over?
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: The kids stay up all night. They wake– then the
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: mean dad comes down and like there was a lot
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: of that. I remember being like they put– I went
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: to a public school girls' party. I went to private.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: And they just, again, since I was eight, there is
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: something about me to a certain type of personality. I
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: irritate the shit out of them. They are like, she
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: thinks she's all that. I hate her.
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: Because your confidence? And people are so insecure? I'll never
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: really know it, but it has existed before.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Since I was like eight.
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: I think it says so much more about other people
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: than you. They can't, they're intimidated.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: No, I know, but I think there's a certain type
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: of person that just cannot get into the Heather McDonald vibe.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: And I wish I would have realized it earlier, you know, like,
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: but there's something about me, yeah, the confidence, the way
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: I look, that I think that, that I'm not great
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: looking but I'm happy with the way I look that
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: really pisses off people it's the same way that people
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: get mad when you know curvier people have great confidence
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: white people come after Lizzo for no reason things like
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: that well now there's a reason because she was kind
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: of mean to some people but whatever but the perfect
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: example of like how men would get really angry about
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: that and you're like why do you care like who
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: cares and so that people will like that hate me
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: will like write like you know you have a bump
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: on your nose or whatever and I'm like Okay, first
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: of all, I'm a comedian. I was never trying to
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: be a.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Model.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: But even if I was trying to be a model,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: who cares? Like, it's just kind of like this. But no,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: it's because you're putting yourself out there and you're actually
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: succeeding at putting yourself out there. And that irritates me
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: because you're not that great and you shouldn't be so confident.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: You actually should hate yourself because I hate myself.
• 45:20
  Speaker 5: Well, exactly.
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: It's the projection.
• 45:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 45:22
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 45:23
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: People are so insecure and you're, you're so quick witted
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: and you know, you can think so quickly.
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: You're so smart. That's so, it's super intimidating to people.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: But I mean, the truth is I'm, I mean, I'm
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: insecure too.
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: But verbally.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: But I mean, I think that's.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Also what kind of makes people surprised is that they're like,
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that would bother you. Like you're a comedian.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, but it does, you know, it does
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: because I'm like, I liked you and I And you
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: didn't like me. And I never knew. You know, like
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: it's just kind of like weird.
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: It's like that Friends episode where Rachel says or Ross says,
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: why do you care?
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: And Rachel says, because they're people.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:04
  Speaker 4: Because we care.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: We care what people think of us. It's the hardest part.
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So getting back to the sleepovers. So now is
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: that that's more of a thing, right? But it just
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: shouldn't happen.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: I think it's like 60 percent of CPS cases right
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: now are from sleepovers and men in the home. So
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: that's why I and I don't know if that's just
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: more on the media or if it's happening more and
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: being reported more.
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: But, yeah, there's more.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what? It's just an easy thing to avoid.
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: So why not? You know, it's like it's like in
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: my day, you used to be able to wait outside
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: of the school for your mom to pick you up.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: And then if she showed up and then girls were kidnapped. No.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: And then they said, OK, from now on, nobody waits outside. Then, OK,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: from now on, now every school has a security guard.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: you know, and now people have cell phones and stuff.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: But I mean, there was a time where we didn't
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: have a cell phone and you said, okay, I'll see
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: you there at three. And then your mom, who's a
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: working mom, has something to do. And now she's there
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: and it's 4.15 and you've been sitting by yourself. And
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: then you're a girl, you don't want to be a burden.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: So then someone would be like, oh, can I give
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: you a ride? No, it's okay. My mom's coming. That's
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: what happened like in the 80s. And that's why, and
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: thank God we don't. So, I mean, I think you
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: like learn from everything. So, So what if we had sleepovers?
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: You don't have to sleep over. Why even risk it?
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: Who cares?
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: What's so fun about sleeping over? Just pick them up
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: at 8 or 9 at night. Let them have dinner,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: watch a movie.
• 47:34
  Speaker 7: Oh, yeah.
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: And you don't want my kid sleeping over. She sleepwalks.
• 47:38
  Speaker 5: I mean, you can even enjoy your evening. You'd have to, like,
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: find her.
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: When did that start? That's interesting.
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: Her whole life. She'll just sleepwalk and walk around.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: And when they're sleepwalking, their eyes are open?
• 47:49
  Speaker 5: Oh, fully open, but she's not awake. So I just
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: silently turn her around and walk her back to bed.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: But doesn't that scare you that she could go out?
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: So you have to, obviously you should lock the doors anyway,
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: but do you like have a top lock and stuff?
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: Oh, top lock, alarm system, ring cameras.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: But your two-year-old doesn't do that. No. And when did
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: the seven-year-old start?
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: When she could get out of the, when she was
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: in a big girl bed.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: And is there anything to stop that?
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: I think they age out of it a lot. But
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: we moved houses when there's a big life shift, it
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: happens more, and then it kind of calms down.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: Or when she's overly tired, it happens more.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Now, you said you at one time worked with your husband. Yes.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: How did you meet?
• 48:29
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: We met in our doctorate program, and then we worked
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: at these prisons and jails together.
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: So he did the same work as you?
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: He did.
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: He did it a lot more.
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: So he coached me and said, you know, stop doing
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: these things. People are going to attack you. You're making
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: yourself vulnerable.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Like what? What are some of the things?
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: Like, you know, if there's an elevator, you would choose
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: that rather than walking in a stairwell. Or if, you know,
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: don't naively walk into a room of 40 felons and
• 48:59
  Speaker 4: just say, hey.
• 49:00
  Speaker 5: Guys, ready for group?
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: Like, just my bubbly, normal Orange County personality, I had
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: to really subdue it. Because my husband is trained in
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: martial arts and in had testified and worked in Chicago
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: and just the horrible areas of Chicago and with prostitutes
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: and he would have to navigate.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: All that. Well, I mean, so in doing it, how
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: long did you do it and what did you like
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: about it? Did you actually ever make real headway with
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: someone or help anybody?
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: Not really, no.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 49:34
  Speaker 5: Not inside the walls, maybe outside.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: I like the honesty, but yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: You know, probably 10 years, and in about that amount
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: of time, I think I had one guy get discharged
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: and not come back. And this, I mean, one facility
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: I worked at had 1,200 inmates and 2,000 staff members.
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: So we're talking large numbers, and they are just, you know,
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: they get released.
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: They come back.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: More staff than inmates.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because they weren't funded for actual police. So it
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: was kind of custody officers without weapons that would be
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: in the facility.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: So because there's a psych ward thing.
• 50:06
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: So when something would go down, there was violence every
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: single day. We'd have alarms on our hips. And I frequently,
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: like every day, would pop my alarm and there'd be
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: lights on the ceiling and everyone would come running. But
• 50:17
  Speaker 4: if you were the first one there, you had to
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: go hands on.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Were you ever physically attacked?
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah. And that's one thing my husband would always
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: say is don't run so fast.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: Like how?
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: Um, I'd say that the first time I was kind
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: of pushed against a wall and had my boobs grabbed
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: and I could tell he was like coming in to
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: do more. And then I popped my alarm and staff
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: were close enough to pull him off.
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: That was pretty scary.
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: And then the next time was one of the psychiatrists
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: was being assaulted by someone brutally assaulted. We say a
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: lot in, in our field, like When there's an individual
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: with schizophrenia and they are in a psychotic aggression.
• 50:57
  Speaker 5: They look like the roadrunner. They move so fast when
• 51:01
  Speaker 5: they are throwing punches.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: So you walk up to that and you're like, what
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: am I supposed to do?
• 51:05
  Speaker 5: But I was like, oh, you know, fuck it.
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: I got to go. So I'm going to step into
• 51:09
  Speaker 4: this and try to get this guy off, my friend,
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: this elderly psychiatrist. And I'm so glad that a bunch
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: of inmates at that time picked me up and threw
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: me against a wall. And I thought, okay, like now
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: I'm just going to die, right? They went in and
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: actually saved the psychiatrist.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
• 51:27
  Speaker 5: So I wasn't attacked, but the whole situation was so shocking.
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: I mean, I just ruminated about.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: That for weeks. When did you leave?
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: I left when I was pregnant.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: I was going to say, I can't imagine going when
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: you're pregnant.
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: I had this kind of OG gang member come up
• 51:42
  Speaker 4: to me in the visitation room and he said, I
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: got to tell you because you're one of my favorite
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: staff members. You know, I helped him get a little
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: extra canteen here or there. that they're taking bets on
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: who can kick your belly first. And I thought, okay,
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: I'm done.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: So because you were already showing?
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: I was showing, yeah. I don't know if I was
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: showing because I did IVF and I was so bloated.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: But I think they knew. They watched you like a
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: hawk that I was trying to get pregnant.
• 52:09
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: So then that was the last time I was inside.
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: And then I went to work with veterans.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: And then what was that like?
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: At least they have jobs.
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but what's that like with the veterans?
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: Really good stories. Really good stories.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Major PTSD though.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: I can imagine.
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: The trauma was, I've never seen it before.
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: And just hearing this, the top secret stories that America
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: gets our men into is pretty incredible.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: And yeah, like my dad was a Marine in World
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: War II. So he was only 17 to 20 fighting Japan.
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: That's crazy.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: And when he, we would always be like, You know,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: he would always just tell funny stories like, oh, my
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: friend got shot in the butt or my friend used
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: his other friend's purple heart to get a job, whatever,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: something like that. And he's like stories. And then at the,
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: you know, how they on the boat back from Japan
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: to San Diego, they only had one movie. So they
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: watched over again and they'd like reenact it and just
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: keep doing like just fun stuff like that. But so
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: I never heard anything. And if I said, did you
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: ever kill somebody? He'd be like, oh, stop it. You
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: don't ever tell me anything. So then he had a
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: like a stroke or something or a minor stroke. And
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: he was kind of going in and out of it.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: And he just like looked at me and he like
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: told me the story of how he killed two guys.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: And then afterwards I said, you know, you told me
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: about the two guys. And I repeated it. And he
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: was like, no, I didn't say that. And I thought,
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: my God, I can't believe my dad is like 88
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: and has been carrying this burden as like a Catholic
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: moral man that he killed these two men in combat
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: that were probably his age or close to it or
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: around it and what that would do. And I thought
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: about all the times, you know, with his– couldn't control
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: his temper and his mental issues and stuff, which he had,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: even though he's a successful man and husband and good dad,
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: but yelled a lot and shit, like, you know, lost
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: his temper and things like that.
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: And I'm like, because he never let it out.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: And they never, and especially then they didn't have any therapy.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: They were like, here's a, you know, here's your GA bill.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: Go now. Then he could go to college and he
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: went to college and then he got a job. And
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: that was that like moving on. And I mean, I
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: just can't imagine you're like telling these kids that this
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: is what they have to do. Exactly.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: I work with police and firemen a lot. And every
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: time they go to these horrifying calls, they just get
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: back in the truck and start joking around. You know,
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: they go back to the station, they start cooking, they
• 54:55
  Speaker 4: wait for the next call. They never actually like spend
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: a moment saying.
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: That was really serious.
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: Like we need to honor that we just saw death
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: or we need to honor what happened.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: But how can they? Because that's their job. It's like– Right.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: So then they just get– I know when I see
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: stuff like that and I'm like, my job is like
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: watching a housewife's thing and doing an impression or going
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: on the road and making people laugh. I just– And
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: I– But we.
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: Need that, right?
• 55:21
  Speaker 7: Well, of course.
• 55:21
  Speaker 4: I mean we need these jobs and we need these people.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: That are good.
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: And their wives.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: But I mean– and I so respected– And I feel bad.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: I want to apologize because this girl wrote me and
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: I made light of– kind of made light of something
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: of just Taylor Swift had a stalker and they caught
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: the stalker and he was like loitering in front of
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: her place. And I'm like, but what about all the
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: women that have been loitering?
• 55:45
  Speaker 5: And the police don't care.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: This girl wrote me and she said, that's not true
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: about the police. And I said, you're right. I said, oh,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: the police don't care. That's not what I meant to say.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I want to correct it. I wanted to say the
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: laws in L.A. protect– that loitering, someone who unfortunately is unhoused,
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: there's nothing that says that they can't lay in front
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: of your property or whatever. That's what I was saying.
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: And therefore, the police cannot enforce those kind of things
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: now until we get a better DA and things like that.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: So I wanted to say that I felt badly because
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: I have a tremendous respect for Military, law enforcement, firefighter,
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: all of that, because we do need it so badly.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: And I can't believe they have to do this every
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: day of their lives. Like, it's so hard. And putting
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: people before themselves, you know?
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: That's the thing.
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: They're people too, right?
• 56:35
  Speaker 5: I mean, if they know they're getting called out to
• 56:36
  Speaker 5: Taylor Swift, they're going to drive faster.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: There's an interest. There's a little more of an interest.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: Just like when a DA may go after a high
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: profile case more so or be harder on somebody that
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: is in Hollywood or go lighter on someone, whatever. If
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: it's what they think might versus someone that's like, eh,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: that case isn't that interesting. Because That's the next thing.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: If they choose not to take it, then they choose
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: not to take it.
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: So wrapping up, I want to ask a couple more
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: things about what can you do if you're with someone
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: that has narcissistic behaviors? Maybe they don't have all– what
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: is it? Is it like the nine signs or the
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: 11 signs? Oh, yeah.
• 57:30
  Speaker 5: I mean, there's a bunch.
• 57:32
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of signs.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of signs. And I think there's some
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: people that might just have some.
• 57:38
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: Right? So then you're not– and we throw the word
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: around so much.
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: So it's like what if you're like, look, I'm married
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: to this person or whatever. I work with this person
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: and I've noticed these things. What is some advice you
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: can give? Because it always just seems like when I
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: see all this stuff, it's like you got to get out.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: And you read the comments. I left my narc and
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: now I'm so happy. What about the people that are like,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: It's bad, but it's not so bad. And I would
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: like to try to navigate this personality disorder that I
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: have to deal with, whether it's the father of your
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: kids or, you know, what is your advice?
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: I don't think it's hopeless at all.
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: You know, I really see narcissism as, you know, you've
• 58:24
  Speaker 4: got wounded people. Like if we picture an eggshell and
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: when they're feeling strong, they're at the top of the eggshell.
• 58:31
  Speaker 4: If that eggshell cracks because somebody hurts their feelings, that
• 58:34
  Speaker 4: narcissistic wound makes them fall into the egg and it's
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: just hot lava. They can't do it. They'll do anything
• 58:40
  Speaker 4: to prevent falling into that lava. So it means they're
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: going to hurt you. They're going to grab onto you.
• 58:44
  Speaker 4: They're going to manipulate you. They're going to try to
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: impress upon everyone. And so if you start working with somebody.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Impress upon everyone that you're the fault.
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: That you're the fault, that they're strong, that they're okay.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: You know, they're going to project out all the bad
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: stuff onto everyone else. But if we start to build
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: them up and build their confidence and build a layer
• 59:05
  Speaker 4: over the lava that they're not horrible people, that they
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: can start to have some identity, then their fall from
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: grace won't be as significant. And then they can be
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: more present in the relationship and they won't attack or
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: hurt because narcissists can.
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: Go real low.
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: If we can build that confidence in them, we can
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: start to make that relationship heal.
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: And I've seen both happen.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: So you have someone who's being awful to you and
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: then you have to blow them up and say you're great?
• 59:34
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. That's hard. Yeah. That seems annoying.
• 59:39
  Speaker 5: A hundred percent.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: But you're right. That's probably the trick.
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: You got to play poker.
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: You got to play the game if you have the
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: end goal of.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: What about the gray rocking?
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: The gray rocking.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: Explain what the gray rocking is.
• 59:51
  Speaker 4: I find that gray rocking just pisses people off. But,
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: you know, it's.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Because I was kind of wondering about that, too. I
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: do think it works to the extent where if you're
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: dealing with someone who just kind of likes to fight
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: and they're like coming in and they're like, duh, duh, duh.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: And you're like, all right, okay. Won't happen again.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 7: Duh, duh, duh.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Like, I do think there's some people that it does
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: work for because you are like exhausted. Yes. And you're
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: just like, I, why am I defending myself? So, but
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: I do, but, But so how do you think it
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: also kind of makes it worse if that's what you're saying?
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: I think if you're drastically changing how you relate to
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: the person, like if it's your husband, all of a
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: sudden you just go mute.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: He's going to be like, well, I'm going to try
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: harder to get something out of you.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 7: Oh, OK.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: And it can just make things blow up more. But
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you're going to gray rock, maybe just,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: you know, and that's just acting like a gray rock,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: like no personality. I would start slow and subtle and
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: kind of build that. Yeah.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 5: You don't want them to think you're having a stroke
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: or something.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: We need to look at the end goal and how
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: we're going to move the relationship in that way. But
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: if it's like someone at work or a school mom
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: that's just frigging annoying, gray walk right away all the time.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: It's perfect. I love that trend. I think it's a
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 5: great topic.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: And then what about the narcissistic thing? And fortunately, I
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: have not experienced anybody like this. So thank God for
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: this because this would really bug me out. But where
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: they're like, my narc, you know, will ruin any big event.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: The narc that ruins Christmas, Thanksgiving, your birthday, some big
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: thing that you're excited for. And they do it in
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: a covert way where you don't really realize it until
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: like you put it all together. And then you look
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: at the last 10 Thanksgivings and you're like, what? What
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: are you supposed to do about that?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: Run.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: That one you can't fix.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 7: Run.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think if you have a– there's a real
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: longstanding relationship with a lot of abuse and resentment. I
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: mean there's things in relationships you can't come back from.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: And how much of your life do you want to
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 4: spend building someone up and fixing them rather than living
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: your life?
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: I definitely think that's happened with adult sibling relationships or
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: even if you have a narcissistic parent or grandparent or whatever. And,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: you know, placating that person for all the years. OK,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: we'll go to your house. We'll pack up the kids.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: We'll go to your house. And then, oh, nobody wanted
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: me anyway. You know, like that type of stuff. And
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: you're like, oh, gee. And then now I feel like
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: people are like, no, like this is my family now.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: And I am not going to play your bullshit game.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: And.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, I shared about my adult sibling situations, and
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: I couldn't believe when I first shared it the amount
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: of emails I got that were like, thank you for
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: allowing me to be like, no more. And I just
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: think there's this like, blood is thicker than water. And
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: it's like, okay, we were siblings. We grew up in
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: the same home. We had the same parents. Sometimes you
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: can't get free of that person until the parents die. Right.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: Because then you're like, well, now there's nothing that ties
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: us together. And there isn't a parent that's like, well,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: we would, you know, you know, mom wants us to
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: be together. But this it's like a weird that jealousy
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 2: or whatever. And I sometimes I think the jealousy between
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: kids that then bleed into adulthood. I do think the
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: parent could be responsible because why?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: I'm very lucky. I'm like, my kids are not jealous
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: of each other. But why did I grow up in
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: a home where the kids were jealous of each other?
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: Oh, and I did too because my parents were jealous
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 5: of each other.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: The mom and dad were?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 8: Oh.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: You know, I think we model these behaviors significantly.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 8: Oh.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: Definitely.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 5: I mean, I had a very– I do have– no offense, dad.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I love you.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: A very narcissistic attorney father.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: Uh-huh.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: I think my dad definitely was narcissistic now.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: It's hard to tell, though, with being a veteran.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: I mean, he's also such a badass, too.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: A badass, but also, like, kind of bragged about it. Like,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I can say it because he's passed, too. But, like,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: you know, I just remember I had to write the
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: essay for college. And it was like, who do you
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: most admire? And he basically just wrote it for me
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: because it was him.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: Did you get in?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 6: I got in, but it was just so like, you know,
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: combat Marine and this football player and had four letters
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 6: in high school and held three jobs and drove an.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: Ice truck and You know, all this kind of– and
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: it was amazing. And they were amazing individuals, you know.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: But then the ego was, like, so fragile.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: Like, I just remember one time my sister graduated or
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: did something. And when she graduated, we were all waiting
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: there and we had, like, flowers for her and stuff.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: And she went, hugged everybody, hugged everybody, you know, all
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: her friends. She said, we're going to see your friends again,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 2: you know. And we were just waiting behind it. And
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: my dad was so pissed that she didn't come directly
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: to us first and hug it. So she was like
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: six years older than I am. So then after that,
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: any play, anything I ever had, I would be on
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: stage and my dad had stark white hair and I'd
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: be like, okay, he's right there. And from the moment
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: I'd get off stage, whether even as an adult doing
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: stand up from them, I would. Well, I mean, eventually
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: I got to a place where they could meet me backstage.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: But like before that, like just at the improv, I
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: would be like, it doesn't matter if fucking, you know,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Jay Leno wanted to stop and talk to me. I'd
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: be like, Dad, because it's like he needed to have that.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 5: And it's kind of ridiculous. And then you feel so guilty.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like it was so much like just to be
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: making sure that like his ego was intact and it
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: was exhausting.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: You know, the first celebrity I met was Jay Leno.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: He's so nice.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: He was 17. He called me up on stage at
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: his show and we took pictures.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: Wait, why?
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I was with two very pretty girls.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: Probably just that.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: It's a good picture though.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very pretty.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 7: He was super.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's very, very nice. And I was on his
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: show and stuff. But I'm just saying like before that, like, yeah,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: it is interesting. And I do think I had Dr.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: Drew say that like most pilots have a lot of
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: narcissistic traits because some of them can be really great.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: They need to feel like they're the smartest one in
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: the room. They're fucking driving the plane.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 8: Exactly.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: We do want that, you know, a lot of doctors
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: and lawyers. Like, I think they can be There can
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: be some really positive traits. And I do think there's
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: like a saturation of like throwing the word around.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Along with gaslighting.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: Those two words I think are overused.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 5: We sensationalize it.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. But there's real– And I still think gaslighting
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: is confusing.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: I find it confusing too.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: I like to explain like if you think your husband
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: is having an affair and you have actual physical evidence. OK.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: Like underwear that's not yours.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 5: In your hand.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 4: And he says, no, it was probably yours and convinces
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 4: you it's yours. Like that's the epitome of gaslighting.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 4: You don't even trust physical evidence anymore that they've taken
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: your intuition away to that degree. So then if you
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 4: look at it subtly, there's all that that can come.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So then I do think that it's– that that
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: is what it's supposed to be. I don't think it's
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: supposed to be like, you know, you– You don't think I'm,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: you know, capable of this. That's crazy. Yes, I do.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: That's not gaslighting, right? No. That's where I feel like
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: it's been like anytime you say something and someone goes,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: you're being crazy, then you're like, stop gaslighting me. It's like, well,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: maybe someone really does think that, you know, what you're
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: saying doesn't make any sense because they truly don't feel
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: that way. Like.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: It's an emotional manipulation. I mean, it's a serious thing.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: But we definitely, it's sexy to say right now.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 4: It's super sexy to say gaslighting and narcissism. And we're
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: thrown around diagnoses every day because, I don't know, it's
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: just where we are.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: It's the media. So with your book about your situation
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 2: with friends, do you think there is hope of, you know,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: the expression, you know, friends are part of your life for,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: you know, a reason, a season, or a lifetime type
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: of a thing? And, you know, kind of figuring out
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: this was a really good friend. Do you think there's
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: a time where you can put a pin in a
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: friendship and go back to a friendship? Or do you
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: think no?
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: No, I mean, I think it would be rare.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 7: Rare.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: To be honest, yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: But I think it's possible.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: Like, there are some people I really adore, but I
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: don't adore the people that they are around.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 5: And they're going to be around.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: Those people through school because of aged kids or jobs
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: or whatever. And so I'm definitely in my mind thinking
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: pin right here and reach out when life transitions.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 5: But it's rare. Most people just, if they're toxic, they're out.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: They don't fit life.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: They're out.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 5: If the world brings us back together.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: I had a situation with a friend and we had
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: like just one of those things and it was not
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: a big deal. And then so much time passed and
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: then it kind of got weird. And but we'd still
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: occasionally text like, oh, congrats on this or something like that.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: And and then when like all this shit happened, when
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: social media people are coming after me. I found out
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: that she was participatory in it online and, and agreeing. Oh,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you've exposed this part of her.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: And I was like, I can't believe that she's using
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: her own name and doing this. And I knew it.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: And then I see her out at something and I
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: really wanted to be like, I can't believe, you know,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: But I'm like, wait, it's been like three and a
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: half years and I'm just going to be kind of
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 2: fake because I don't want her now going back and saying, oh,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: getting in the car. I ran into Heather and she
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: fucking went psycho on me and said, even if I
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: was in the right. So I was just like, oh, hey.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: But then the other day my friend said, well, you know. Oh,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: remember we were at this place with that girl. Would you,
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: you know, if you ever want me to facilitate, you know,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: because I'm kind of, and I was sort of sad
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: for a moment. I remembered like a fun moment we had.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: But then I'm like, she danced on my grave. She
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: danced on my grave. She was happy that I was
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: suffering and she contributed to it. I go, she could
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: have picked up the phone and been like, holy shit,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of loving this. But not, but she was,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: she showed that she was loving it. And so therefore,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like once you know that, it's like this
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: one thing to be when someone really goes, look, we're
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: not hanging, but I do wish you're the best. And
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: some people lie about that. But some people really do.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Sometimes we're like, oh my God, I'm glad. I'm glad
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: you got that job. I'm glad you got married. I'm
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: glad you got pregnant. And they really are glad. And
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: then there's people that are like, they aren't glad when
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: things go good, but they are glad when things go bad.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: And it's hard to prove. And then when you have
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: the proof, you're like, There's no way you can go
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: back then.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 5: And in my book, if you disrespect me, you're done.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 5: There's no coming back from disrespect.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: I mean, that's not my book, but Book of Life.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: Book of Life.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: Like I recently, not recently, over the past couple of years,
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: lost 120 pounds.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: Congratulations.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: Shit done.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: You know, one time I said that to a girl,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: my big fat, what's her name? She has a show
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: on TLC. She.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: My big fat life or whatever. It's like, no, it's
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: been on a show in TLC forever. She's a very
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: big personality, very funny girl, whatever. And we're doing it
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: on zoom and she's like, and then I, you know,
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: lost 50 pounds, whatever. And I go, Oh, congratulations. She goes, actually,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: that's really offensive.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: Why?
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: Cause I guess I shouldn't have said that. Like I,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: like I was like, Oh, she's like, you know, cause
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: weight doesn't matter. Okay. All right. So now I'm, I
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: just realized I congratulated you.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 5: Oh, fuck yeah.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: But I mean, it's okay. But I don't know, like
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: maybe I'm not supposed to, maybe you're not supposed to
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: say that sometimes. She's the only person that's ever like
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: called me on it, but whatever.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, congratulations for being healthy and feeling happy and living.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: A longer life. I think she was trying to say
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter. I don't know. Who goes? Go on.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: So you lost the weight. Congrats. And I'm going to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: say congrats because you are happy about it.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 5: I'd rather not be 120 pounds more. I wouldn't fit
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: in the chair. But I lost friends as I got healthier.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: That's juicy. What do you think? Because that's happening with
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: those Zempik.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: I think there was envy.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 4: People were along for the ride because I was kind
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 4: of the wounded one they could carry with me. or
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: care with them. But as I got healthier people, I
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: started to get more attention. I started to get invited
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: to things more. I kind of, I don't know if
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: we call it popularity at this age, but I, things
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: shifted in, in friend dynamics.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: And then also, isn't that sad that just because somebody
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: is a smaller dress size that they might, uh, Go
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: up in the social stratosphere. But it's true.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: It's so true.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: And then it's true that then people are like, wait,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: I liked you when you were my fat, funny friend,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: not when you were my pretty, funny friend or my thin,
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: funny friend.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 4: Yes, because now you are hurting my confidence because now
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 4: you're coming at me with too much. I said that too.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: And there's this one, there's, you know, when people, I
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: even had someone go, I don't like the Ozempic. And
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like, why? You've been skinny your whole life. What
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: do you care? You don't need it.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: And she goes, because it's the one thing. And she
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: was like joking, but I was like, this is exactly
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. She's like, it's the one thing
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: that I had over other people is that I never
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: struggled with food and with weight gain. And so I'm like,
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: but that is why people are angry. That is why
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: people are like, you cheated and did it. And I'm like,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: who cares? It's a miracle thing. Hopefully it doesn't backfire. Sure,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: a couple of people it doesn't agree with like anything else.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: But for the most part, it seems to be making people,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: you know, lose the weight that they've wanted to, you know, easily. Yeah.
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: And so I'm like, as someone who was lucky enough, sure,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 2: I've gained a little weight here or there. But like,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty lucky in that I don't struggle like other
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: people have throughout life. I've never had a eating disorder.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: And I, you know, so I'm like, but it's that
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: that's what it is. It's that. Someone like you who's
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: really pretty.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: Who then loses some weight is pretty and now their size.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: And the friend that kind of probably had like not
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: a cute face.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 2: But was always thin was like, well, we balance each
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: other out. But now we don't.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: Right. The relationship gets thrown off. And that's how simple
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: people are, right?
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: That's how simple relationships are. I mean, I can tell
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 4: you think so much deeper than most people, but it's
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 4: really that simple.
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 4: Like, oh, damn, you might look as good as me
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 4: now or better.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: I got to go.
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Or someone that's like, it's fine if you get
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 2: to a size six, but if you get to a
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: four or two.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: Oh, that was a good day.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: I don't want to be around you anymore. Like, yeah.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: No, it's... I think it's good to see it and
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: admit it and kind of go, yeah, that's shitty. Just
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: like something else. Why wouldn't you be happy if your
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: less wealthy friend finally does great? And I think that
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: happens too. Like, oh, I'm fine when we both were
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: at this level. But now if you're at this level
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: and you have this nicer house or you have the
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: ability to whatever, go jump to the next level. now
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: I'm not okay with it anymore. And then there's some
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: that are like smart that are like, cool, invite me over.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: And then there's some that are not, you know.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: I want to celebrate people's gain, right? I don't lead
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 4: with the jealousy or the envy.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know why.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 4: I just never cared or maybe because my dad's rich
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: and I got a doctorate. But I want to celebrate
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: when people are happy. Like the last thing I want
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 4: to do is cut them down.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: I just think it's just recognizing that there might be
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: some people in your life, just like you said– And
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: sometimes they can be the oldest friend. Maybe they can
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: be a new friend. And it's just, it, it's like,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: it's nice to have the clarity and to also, you know, recognize,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: like I recognize I'm not perfect. I, you know, I
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: have these things that piss off people, whatever. But, you know,
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: and recognizing too, like, okay, I was, I was into
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: people seeing Like, I'll be real honest. Like, I became
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: friends with the awful grifter girl who told me that
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: these earrings were worth, still these are the 42 earrings,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 2: that they were worth, you know, $ 3, 000, lied to me.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: And I kind of became friends with her. And I thought, oh,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: this other friend that I'm no longer friends with, you know,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: let's see if she, you know, if she still follows me,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: she'll see. You know, she's not going to the premiere now.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 2: I'm taking her.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: And I can say that. And it's not like I
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: would have chosen somebody else. I really didn't have anybody
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: else to choose from. But I was like, there was
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: a little bit of that. Now I recognize that, like,
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: was I, do I, did I kind of deserve what
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: I got? Because I didn't really investigate. I mean, I
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: just believed that she was a nice, normal person and
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: she wasn't. But, like, my intentions weren't completely pure.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 7: I don't think we ever have pure intentions though I
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 7: mean come on what would that look like we would
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 7: be walked all over we would be doormats right yeah
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 7: no no no one can screw with me if they
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 7: don't want to be screwed back yeah that sounds sexual
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 7: doesn't mean.
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah yeah like People are going to know that
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 4: if they mess with me, they are going to meet
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: the very dark side of me.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 5: But that's only going to come out if you invite it.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 5: Otherwise, I'm rooting for you all the way.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: So tell everybody where they can follow you, get the book,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: everything that they need to know or contact you if
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: they have a specific question or whatever.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 5: My Instagram is DrLeslieDobson.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 4: My TikTok is too, but I think it was just
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 4: banned because of the content. So I'm trying to figure
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 4: that out.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can tell you that. You can. You have
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: to say essay.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 5: I think I've been using too many bad words.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: And you can't say– you have to say fetophile or schmetophile.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 5: Spelling it differently.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: Okay. And you could probably look up what you can
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: and cannot say. I just did one and then I
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: just was about to post it and I realized, oh,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: I said the full words, which I think is really
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: annoying because I think that does keep people from getting
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: the information. Yes. But– You have to say– you can't
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: say like R-A-P-E.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: Well, right.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 5: But if you're saying grape, then you're minimizing rape. So
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 5: like I don't really understand.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: But if you're going to bother to do it, you
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: might as well just play the game and get people
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: to see it, you know? Yeah.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: Because my goal is to build awareness.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: Because they'll still see it.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: I mean they'll still get the message if you do
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: the little game of the algorithm, which is annoying. And
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: who knows? Maybe that won't exist in a year or whatever.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 5: It changes all the time.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: I'll play the game. I just want women to be
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: awesome and empower themselves.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 5: Give themselves permission to be just the awesomeness they are.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 5: That's the message.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 4: But the book, my website's drlesleydobson.com and it's on there
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: and there's an interactive little game on there too. So
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 4: you can actually put your friends on the sphere around
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: you and see if they're draining your energy or not.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 4: It was a hard one because I put like, okay,
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: my two-year-old, does he give me energy or take it away.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, no, he really does take it away.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: So if I put him in the middle, then I
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 4: can't have a lot of other people around me. So
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: depending on how he is, I got to move him
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: around the sphere. So I had a lot of fun
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 4: making this little interactive game. It's free. It's just on
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: the website.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: I love it. Well, thank you so much. It was
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: great meeting you.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 8: Yes.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you for analyzing me.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 7: You're wonderful.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 4: Bye.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: Juicy Scoopers, do not miss out. A lot of you
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: are crying. You did not buy your tickets to my
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: LA show in March and it sold out within a week. Well,
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: lucky for you, Scottsdale, I'll be there Friday, May 3rd. Also,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: I'll be in Denver May 17th and 18th. But just
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: announced today, your first day to buy tickets to UC
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: Scooper to my show June 1st at Pachango Resort. Talk
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: about a perfect time of year to be there. So fun.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: You can buy those tickets today. Go to heathermcdonald.net. Only
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: go to heathermcdonald.net. Buy your tickets. And then if you
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: are not part of Patreon, what are you doing with
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: your life? Join my Patreon. Today was a very intimate,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: deeper conversation. That's the kind of juicy stuff we get
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: into and so much more on the Patreon. I've been
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: doing it for seven years. Whatever level you join, you
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: will have all the episodes for all those years available
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 2: to you as a member. So do it. Go to heathermcdonald.net
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: and get those tickets. Thank you. The car is beautiful.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Where did you end up going for it? This exclusive
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: place that Dad has connections with. They have more cars
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: for more dealerships than like anywhere else. You have to
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: put me in touch. What's it called? It's Dune ADL.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 8: Where?
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 2: Dune ADL.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: Do you mean... Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars. Lift, please.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 8: No.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: Done Deal Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.