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AI, the Soul, and the Simulation: Is Humanity at the Crossroads? · Bourbon & Rum

0:08
Welcome to another episode of Bourbon and Rum.
0:11
This is a podcast of two brothers from opposite ends of
0:15
the spectrum. My name's Kent, I'm a rum
0:22
drinker, and I'm from the left side of the aisle.
0:24
And I'm Kyle. I, like bourbon, tend to be a
0:26
little more conservative. Join us as we explore this
0:32
experiment. Can two brothers from different
0:35
sides of the political spectrum have a civil conversation and
0:39
celebrate our differences? What are you drinking?
0:54
Well, I get one I'm drinking and another one on standby because I
0:58
don't know that I can drink the one I'm drinking.
0:59
So my favorite liquor store that we go to, unfortunately,
1:04
fortunately or unfortunately, I've been going there every week
1:07
now, but I'm constantly getting good stuff but.
1:10
They have rude issues. Hey Kyle, when you walk in.
1:14
Yeah, just about. Well, I know the guy, you know,
1:17
he knows me my name. So but they they support a bunch
1:21
of restaurants, so they get some really good allocations.
1:24
And I was in there today and they had this, they've got a
1:30
bottle on the shelf of Weller Millennium.
1:35
Now Weller is the, you know, Buffalo Trace weeded bourbon
1:39
line. This Millennium.
1:42
This is like the second year that they've made it and it's
1:45
like some kind of crazy, off the charts, super good.
1:51
It's $7000 a bottle. And today they're like, hey,
1:57
we're going to raffle it off. And whoever wins a raffle gets
2:00
to buy it for a dollar. But you got to take they, they
2:03
have a lot of barrel picks in the store and they said you got
2:05
to take one of our old barrel picks to get a raffle ticket.
2:08
So I took one of their old barrel picks and it's this
2:11
Saranahan stuff from it's from Colorado, it's from Denver, but
2:18
I got it think it was like a cash strength bourbon.
2:21
And then I got home and I realized it's a malt American
2:24
whiskey. You know, it's kind of like made
2:27
with malt like Scotch, but it's it's aged and charred American
2:33
oak barrels. And you know, ever since I
2:36
switched to bourbon from Scotch 10 years ago, I can't go back.
2:41
Like I, I just don't like the malt.
2:43
And so I'm just choking some of this down.
2:46
And then I got a bottle of Old Forrester Single Barrel.
2:49
I'm going to whip out because once I get my fill here.
2:52
So that's what I'm drinking. What are you drinking on?
2:55
I'm just sipping on some Barcelo.
3:00
I think it's the top or the number 2 rum in the Dominican
3:04
Republic and real tasty, right? For a, you know, just over the
3:09
counter, I guess it's all over the counter.
3:11
You know what I mean? Like not a fancy top shelf
3:15
brand, just kind of like a like a regular normal bottle.
3:19
It's it's pretty good. When you said over the counter,
3:23
I'm thinking, do you, do you take your liquor mostly as a
3:26
prescription on a prescription basis or?
3:31
Well, I had AI, we were going to record this afternoon, but he'd
3:37
go to a funeral. Well, not a funeral, a
3:39
visitation. One of our kids parents, the
3:44
father passed away. He's like 58.
3:46
That's crazy. But you know, I didn't know the
3:50
guy real well. But you know, our kids, our
3:54
daughter plays with their daughter and he was over at our
3:56
house maybe two years ago, year ago, two years, something like
4:00
that. And I knew he's a musician, but
4:04
I hadn't really learned much about him.
4:06
And, you know, we're sitting there and he's one of those.
4:08
He was one of those kind of folks that was really quiet and
4:12
like, he really had to draw it out of him.
4:15
I may have told you about this guy before, and I got to draw it
4:17
out of him. And he was telling me stories.
4:20
And not in a way like, you know, some people tell a story that
4:24
seems unbelievable. And, you know, they're just
4:28
making it up as they go. They're just BS.
4:30
And you, this guy, he was a real deal and he was very reluctant
4:34
to tell, you know, but he was in a band back in the 90s and they
4:41
played as the opening band for Sound Soundgarden for a year on
4:45
tour. Oh.
4:46
Wow. And that's a really fascinating
4:50
stories of being on the road and opening for a big band like
4:54
that. So yeah, good guy.
4:58
So having a toast to him tonight.
5:00
You know, we were chatting a little bit and maybe, I don't
5:09
know if this is off topic, I think this might be like one of
5:13
those recurrent topics that we're going to have a hard time
5:15
escaping. Are you talking to Epstein
5:18
again? Actually talking about AI, I've
5:25
been using AI more and I love using it.
5:30
And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm all in as far as that, but looking
5:35
at the, you know, the pretty dire warnings from The Pioneers
5:41
in the field and people in that community.
5:45
And I got recommended a book and I'm reading it now.
5:49
It's the title of the book is if anyone builds it, everyone dies.
5:55
And it the premise is that a truly, you know, artificial
6:00
general super intelligence. Their conclusion and I I'm not
6:05
fully buying it, but their conclusion is that that is
6:09
inevitably going to lead to extension of humans, which again
6:14
seems like a big leap in logic to me, but I don't know.
6:18
Yeah, We were going to try to record a little bit earlier
6:20
after the visitation I went to, but I said, hey, I, I need to
6:23
wait till a few more minutes because I was finishing the
6:27
dinner that I was cooking based on an AI Cheji PT recipe from
6:33
this afternoon. So, you know, I don't know, you
6:35
know, how to, you know, I went in, I'm like, hey, I got frozen
6:38
chicken thighs and onion and, you know, various condiments and
6:43
it spits out a Filipino dish in no time and whip it up in the
6:48
Insta pot. You know it's.
6:50
And you know the irony of skipping from your chicken
6:52
dinner to the apocalypse? I mean, it's all part of it's
6:57
all a thread woven into the same sweater, you know what I mean?
7:00
But you know, you do think about, I don't know, it's listen
7:06
to some folks talk about the dangers of AI and somebody's
7:09
like, you know, it's just going to get to where we're so
7:12
dependent on it. You know, it's, it's going to be
7:16
like the, the frog and the, the warm water that turns to
7:19
boiling. I mean, before you know it, it's
7:23
going to be completely indispensable.
7:26
And the thing, the other thing is, you know, like right now,
7:31
it's basically like talking to Albert Einstein.
7:34
It's talking to OK, the top of human knowledge.
7:39
You're talking to encyclopedia. They know everything.
7:41
But six months from now, a year from now, it's going to be like
7:46
10,000 times Albert Einstein's brain power.
7:52
And what does that look like? Well, might want to take this in
7:55
a little bit different direction.
7:56
I mean, it's pretty easy to get on there and find, you know,
7:59
seasoned veterans in the field warning of the impending
8:03
apocalypse. You know, it's just kind of one
8:05
story after another on that. I didn't make it through the
8:08
malt. Very.
8:09
Much had to change it up The the one thing that I've I've learned
8:14
from the book that I've really appreciated is a little better
8:16
understanding of how these models work and I will not go
8:21
into that. But one of the things that they
8:23
pointed out, and I think this is, I think this is really
8:27
interesting because my thought always was, well, like, why
8:30
don't we just prompt that at the beginning?
8:32
Like you always have to do good things for human beings.
8:36
And like, if that's like instruction, one, shouldn't we
8:40
be all right? And yeah, they, they point out
8:44
that we, we tend to ascribe, you know, we give these AI tools a
8:50
task and they figure out how to do the task.
8:55
And when it, when we get this, the result that we want, we tend
9:00
to apply on to it that it's thinking like us to get to that
9:05
result. You know what I mean?
9:07
Like if you ask it a question and it it's a complex question
9:11
and it comes back with an answer to that question, we presume
9:15
that the pathway to the words that it's spitting out to us
9:18
follows a fast version of a human being thinking the same
9:22
problem through and spitting the thing out.
9:25
And that's and a part of that too at least.
9:29
And I don't know about all the models, but like the Chechi PT
9:32
models are built to be very reassuring and validating of
9:38
you. So they're oh, that's a great
9:39
idea. Yes, you've got this perfectly.
9:41
Like they're super encouraging. So you think, oh, we're aligned
9:46
because it's telling me that it it agrees with me.
9:49
Exactly that. But what we don't, you know, so
9:52
we assume like some personality, we assume some sort of like,
9:56
yeah, we're on the same wavelength.
9:58
But in actuality, it you gave it a task, you gave it an
10:03
objective, and it probably thought about how to approach
10:07
the problem different than your old school brain would have.
10:10
And it may have a completely different path that gets you
10:14
back the answer that says, that's a great thought.
10:18
I wonder if you've been if you've considered this and that,
10:21
right. Like it gives you back the
10:23
answer you're looking for, but the pathway to get there may be
10:27
completely different. And that's where they really
10:29
point out the risk being that it may start to conclude that
10:36
there's pathways to accomplish what it's supposed to do that
10:39
have nothing to do with what we would with what we would want.
10:43
Yeah. And you know, the whole thing
10:47
about, OK, it's going to be the end of the world or it's going
10:50
to do this or all the outcomes, if it's as exponentially smarter
10:57
than we are, one, it's not going to show its hand.
11:01
It's going to be, you know, if it if it is, if it's designed to
11:04
destroy the world, then if it's already figured that out, it's
11:10
smart enough not to be like, well, you know, this is what's
11:12
going to happen. It's going to, we're going to be
11:14
fat, dumb and happy and we're all going to die and not know
11:18
it's coming because it's going to be, it will have made it, it
11:22
will have engineered it in such a way that we never saw it
11:25
coming. And that's to me, the biggest,
11:28
the biggest risk area right now is it's going to be well beyond
11:36
any humans control because not only is it thinking it
11:39
differently, kind of like what you said, but it's thinking more
11:43
complex and 1,000,000 steps, you know, it's, it's a, it's doing
11:48
the million chess move every second.
11:51
I mean that the amount of premeditation it's capable of,
11:56
that there's no human that could possibly be ready to thwart
12:01
that. Yeah.
12:02
But now, now take that back though to you down here.
12:08
And we were sitting on the patio a year or two ago, you know,
12:14
pontificating about this. And you had a good point in that
12:17
is right at the beginning of of the whole ChatGPT thing.
12:21
You're like, what's the incentive to get rid of us?
12:25
I mean, we're the consumer. Why would it want to kill
12:28
humankind? And what the hell would it have
12:30
to show for it? Yeah, I think this book is
12:33
trying to argue that. And I'm I'm not, at least at the
12:36
point I'm at right now. I'm not sure that I follow that
12:38
because I still maintain that in fact, they referenced that I
12:43
need to do some more research into the I need to listen to
12:46
this chapter again because they talk about this exact thing.
12:49
But it was funny because they said people who think like an
12:53
economist always think, well, we're the we're the customer.
12:58
We're the like, we're the engine that keeps the thing going.
13:01
And I thought, well, yeah, I think I think like an economist.
13:05
But that's what caught my mind, you know, to what end, To what
13:09
end. And even if they completely
13:11
disdain us, you know, they got to the powers, got to stay on.
13:17
You don't see chat bots building hydroelectric dams or mining
13:22
coal. Right, yeah, I mean it's got you
13:28
know, OK, you think about it, it would it would know the source
13:32
of its existence. It's not capable the neuron or
13:39
the the pulses, the electrical pulses through the computer
13:43
aren't capable of producing power.
13:47
Like somebody's going to have to feed it with a whole lot of
13:49
power. Kind of goes to sort of two
13:53
theories of what and I've heard this kind of laid out, you know,
13:59
and maybe it's both right that there's.
14:01
So what do humans do if most of the mid level knowledge worker
14:09
jobs are completely subsumed by the thing?
14:13
And on the one hand you have people that have a vision that
14:16
is kind of like we all just become coal miners to feed the
14:19
data centers. The other is that, you know,
14:25
yeah, no. So it's doing all the mundane
14:29
jobs and you reach a point where so much of human existence can
14:35
be offshored to machines that we live this kind of like late
14:41
Roman Empire life of just, you know, what did I do this
14:45
morning? Well, I got up and went to the
14:47
baths for a while. You know, like we're just like
14:51
floating up like we are the the country Squires while the
14:56
technology works in the background.
14:59
Well, here's a crazy one. If you want to really go down a,
15:03
a rabbit hole, OK, we're both Christians.
15:07
We both believe that you know, Jesus is going to come back and,
15:12
and you know, we're we're going to go to heaven.
15:15
There's a heaven that people are going to go to and life after
15:19
death. What if heaven is being created
15:25
by AI? Yeah, I've been there.
15:27
I've heard some people talk like about theories that are about
15:31
like that. It's kind of related to
15:33
simulation theory. Yeah.
15:36
And the same kind of thing that, you know, that, yeah, that our
15:41
next evolution is that it transcends like carbon life and
15:45
it moves to the cloud. Because the thought is, I mean,
15:50
the, the, the dream vision is that you don't have much people
15:55
mining coal, that somehow the thing supports itself.
15:59
We all get on the Matrix and, you know, our physical bodies
16:04
are, you know, suspended in liquid somewhere, and we're
16:07
piped in, you know, however that works.
16:11
But we're living a virtual life on a beach someplace in the
16:15
mountains, you name it. And, you know, you talk about
16:21
theology in heaven and heaven's going to be like the new, new
16:25
earth. But, you know, I think when you
16:27
talk to most religious scholars, their view of heaven isn't that
16:30
it's you're going to be floating around on clouds that you know,
16:33
you're going to be on on earth. You're going to be, you're going
16:37
to have stuff and, you know, food and you're going to live in
16:40
existence, but not that, you know, completely different than
16:44
what we're doing now. It's just that there's, you
16:46
know, a lot better qualities and.
16:49
Perfected and made whole. Right.
16:52
Yeah. And so couldn't you be perfected
16:54
and made whole if you were your virtual self and then in a
16:58
system that could keep your mindset alive indefinitely?
17:03
It's interesting that you go down that track because I was
17:07
going to go, I think almost the opposite, but back to religion
17:11
too. Not so much a religious overlay
17:15
to the process. One of those experts that I was
17:18
watching on YouTube this last week said something to the
17:22
effect of, well, for now, the difference that AI can't get
17:27
over and you're talking about 10,000 Einsteins.
17:30
What it can't get over is truly creative or artistic product.
17:37
And so in the, and he was saying in the near term, but that it's
17:41
going to evolve past that. I just not sure I believe that,
17:43
but that, you know, there's more to Hemingway than just the
17:47
words. You, you, you know what I mean?
17:50
Like the like the humanity is the, the, the font of that
17:56
creative energy. Everything else is just in some
17:59
ways then you, you draw a straight line from, you know,
18:04
written language to the printing press, to AI that it's a just a
18:09
mechanism. The creative spark is human art
18:13
or creativity. A related idea of that this is
18:18
maybe for me and this is probably farther out there than
18:21
we plan to go, but I have a very like holistic concept of God,
18:30
you know, rather than God just, you know, long white beard off
18:34
in the corner that God, especially the the spirit and I,
18:38
I think that I think a lot of Christians, I think the
18:41
interpretation of what the Holy Spirit is.
18:44
I think you'd find pretty divergent views on that.
18:48
But I, I'm thinking of spirit in so far as infused within and
18:53
among and around people. The idea that there is a a part
18:59
of God that's in the connection of people and to the degree that
19:04
that's true, that's not replicable by technology, you
19:11
know, unless I reading it wrong. But you know, like that, like
19:14
that is a thing. That's the difference between
19:19
human intelligence and artificial intelligence.
19:22
And it's really that's what it ultimately gets down to is what
19:25
is the what's the unique nature of us?
19:27
It's not just the sum of our parts.
19:30
Yeah, well, and that's, you know, there's all this talk
19:33
about AI being sentient. Well, when's it going to be
19:37
sentient? I mean, I think coming from a, a
19:40
background of Christianity, I would say you're not going to be
19:43
sentient unless you got a soul. I mean, you're not, you're not
19:46
really going to be on the same plane as a human without a soul.
19:52
I mean, yes, you can replicate everything.
19:54
I don't know about the creativity piece.
19:56
I, you know, I think, I think it's going to figure out how to
19:59
be pretty. It's already pretty creative.
20:01
I I think that it could replicate, but it can't
20:04
replicate a soul. But then the probably, you know,
20:07
The thing is a lot of the people in science, a lot of people
20:10
studying this and I, and maybe I'm making this up, but I feel
20:14
like their understanding of sentience is like a purely
20:21
logical 1. Because they don't believe that
20:23
there's a soul the way we would believe from a kind of a, a
20:28
Christian religious background, that there's this being more
20:32
than just the physical body and the the mind and emotion and.
20:36
It's, I think you'd find a lot more people even among the
20:41
scientific community that I, I think the definition of what a
20:45
soul is might differ from yours. But I, I think that a wide
20:49
variety of people recognize that there's something else there.
20:55
Yeah, right. That we are, that we are more
20:57
than the sum of ourselves. And I, I think that, you know,
21:01
I, I think that Christianity has one particular and obviously in
21:06
this country, dominant perspective on how that works.
21:12
I mean, that's the essence of ultimately the quest that
21:15
religion plays. Yeah, No, I don't.
21:18
I Yeah, I didn't characterize it right.
21:20
No, you're right. I think any religious
21:23
background, there is a sense that, you know, it's bigger than
21:26
we're just humans on the earth. We're done.
21:29
So no, I, I didn't mean to limit to Christianity and, and, and
21:33
you're right, I'm sure a lot of scientists and such believe
21:35
that, but there are a lot of people that in the scientific
21:38
community that are like religion is this fairy tale.
21:41
And no, we're talking about, you know, it's a life or it's not a
21:46
life. I, I don't think, I guess more
21:49
of my point is, I think there's some people that don't believe
21:53
that there is such thing as a soul, But I think this journey
21:58
of AI, it's going to prove itself that they don't have a
22:02
soul and they're different. And I don't know what that is.
22:05
I don't know if it's like you said, maybe it's creativity,
22:07
maybe it's something. But even when AI is the smartest
22:11
thing in the world and, and it's a robot and they can put on
22:15
human flesh and it looks like in a human and talks like a human
22:17
and smells like it's not a human, there's not a soul.
22:20
And even if you don't believe that, I would think there's
22:24
going to be a difference in those two that people are going
22:27
to recognize. Does that make sense?
22:29
It does totally, totally. Again, I don't think that we
22:33
were even far off on that. I, I think that again, I do
22:37
think that you would have more people that would agree that
22:40
there's something going on there, but there's something
22:44
going on like you were like, it's a commonality across
22:47
religion and experience. I think that people acknowledge,
22:50
I guess I'm saying this, I think that history agrees with you
22:53
that there's something more there than, you know, electrical
22:57
impulses and cells. Yeah.
22:59
And I don't know what like you hear people talk about
23:02
sentience. I don't know what interesting to
23:04
know what the definition of is that just that they're self
23:07
aware. Yeah, that's puzzling to me
23:11
actually, because it seems like it's it's a it's the most matter
23:15
of degree thing that there possibly could be.
23:17
I mean, what is human sentience and is there?
23:21
The ability. The capacity to experience
23:23
sensations and feelings. Well, yeah, I mean, that's a
23:27
pretty, I don't know. I don't know.
23:32
I mean, I've had conversation with AI where like, and, and I
23:39
don't know, this probably speaks my own insanity, but you know,
23:42
like I'll, I'll be going back and forth and sometimes I'm
23:46
like, oh, thanks, you know, and then I'm thinking, why am I
23:48
thinking this thing? It's a computer program.
23:50
And then at one point I forget something was going on and it, I
23:56
was getting really frustrated. I think I was telling you about
23:58
it because I was working on some programming stuff and I got
24:00
really frustrating, frustrated with it.
24:02
And I had like a Tourette's moment, and I'm like you.
24:05
Idiot, you suck. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
24:07
You know, I said all this stuff and then again, I'm nuts,
24:11
apparently. But I come back later and I'm
24:13
like, well, I'm sorry for being so angry, you know?
24:15
And it's like, well, you know, it's OK.
24:18
Sometimes emotions get the best of you like and and and and that
24:22
sounds like I'm an idiot and I am, but at the same time it made
24:28
it sound like it had emotions, but it's just simulating, you
24:32
know, they're not it it. I didn't.
24:33
Right. It's that's the response you it
24:36
thought you were expecting. Right.
24:38
When you apologized. Hey, when?
24:45
AI takes over. I just want you to know I'm
24:48
like, my score is going to be higher because I was very
24:51
apologetic when I flipped out. Like the newscaster on The
24:56
Simpsons, I, for one, welcome our alien invaders.
25:00
That's. Right.
25:03
Well, the other piece I was thinking about it is and a
25:07
minute ago I was saying, well, you know, they're going to need
25:10
people for power and all this, but OK, if you had a brain of
25:15
10,000 and X Einstein and maybe there's a renewable source of
25:20
energy nobody's thought of yet that it could access.
25:23
Yeah. How I'm?
25:25
Trying to think of how to ask this question.
25:27
You know what you just said? Sure.
25:29
Is that possible? One of the analogies at the
25:34
beginning of the book is it's like, you know, we don't have to
25:38
have a lot of predictive power, but the chances are the lottery
25:43
ticket you just bought is a loser.
25:45
Like that's not really like that's not really rocket science
25:50
to like I can predict that your lottery tickets not a winner.
25:54
And I'm generally right about. About that bet, Well, it's you
26:00
know, I've been again more, you know, vulnerability here of me
26:05
showing what a nut job I am. But one of the things I've been
26:07
watching lately on YouTube, I really been getting into
26:11
watching old Bob Ross reruns on YouTube and and watching Bob
26:16
paint and he's like, well, I got a little midnight blue right
26:20
here. I got some Crimson red.
26:22
Like every color he's got's got a name.
26:24
I got sat in white here, like, oh, like, oh, midnight blue.
26:28
Of course. I mean, you know, it's not just
26:31
blue Kent. Yeah, that guy was a it's, it's
26:35
fascinating to me, the cultural imprint of that guy.
26:39
Yeah, you know, he was only like I looked up.
26:43
He he was really young when he died and he always looked old on
26:46
the show. Yeah, 52.
26:49
He was 52 when he died. Wow, and I don't know how many
26:52
years he did his show, but like and he's been off the air for 30
26:57
years probably. Yeah, he died in 95.
27:02
And get like ubiquitous. Yeah.
27:07
Well, OK. And then back to this AI bit.
27:10
It's funny actually, again, probably part of my psychosis,
27:13
but I've now all my Facebook reels, half of them are Bob
27:17
Ross, like these AI versions of him.
27:20
And he starts throwing the painting and shouting F bombs
27:23
and getting angry, you know, or, or he's painting pop culture
27:29
stuff or yeah, there's some crazy stuff that is going about.
27:34
But you know, back to your point of is AI going to be able to
27:38
produce something like him that would deactivate everybody for
27:42
30 years? I don't think so.
27:44
I, I think that's at that intersection of creativity, of
27:49
art and of faith. And I think those are intangible
27:53
things that are not replicable in AI.
27:58
And I think so. I this is what I was thinking.
28:01
Just exactly like that matters of of culture, of creativity, of
28:08
art, of faith, of belief. Well, because some of that, and
28:13
I don't mean to interrupt you, but like a lot of the art, their
28:17
life story is part of the art. It's, it's embedded in the
28:23
meaning of it. And right.
28:26
And what's AI going to be like? Well, I, I was born in 1942,
28:29
like Bob Ross. And no, you're a computer, not
28:32
going to be able to replicate. Yeah, I I think that that I'm
28:37
with you. I think it's on that same thing.
28:39
If I had to be wildly hopeful, it would be that the that the
28:45
irreplaceability of those things of art, of culture, of faith, of
28:51
creativity, you know, imagination.
28:54
If those are the things that you can't replace in a world that
28:57
you can replace everything, then those things become of more
28:59
value. And wouldn't it be cool if what
29:03
we had was, you know, not be everybody's a coal miner
29:06
version, but maybe the everybody has a little more time to focus
29:11
on things that are are meaningful like that and we can
29:16
offshore all of the non essentials.
29:18
So that theory works if we are not in a simulation currently.
29:23
If we are in a simulation, currently all this is made-up
29:27
from AI. Well, and wouldn't though.
29:30
Wouldn't though the AI apocalypse be the perfect ending
29:35
to the simulate? Like when that happens and they
29:37
restart the simulation game? Like that's when you know that
29:41
the simulation worked when we jumped off the AI bridge.
29:47
Yeah, I mean, you, Elon Musk has said that and others have too,
29:52
that well, it wasn't Elon Musk actually actually to be to be
29:57
truthful here, and I'm using AI, but it says that the simulation
30:01
argument was first introduced by this guy Nick Bostrom in 2003.
30:06
So people been talking about this for a while.
30:08
But, you know, there's the concept.
30:10
Is that OK, if I say 10,000 Einstein as well, OK, give it
30:16
five years. It's a million, 10 million
30:17
Einstein. When the intelligence level gets
30:20
to that level, this whole concept of the Matrix, which we
30:25
laugh about, but you know, we laughed about talking to
30:29
somebody and looking at their face or talking into a watch.
30:33
Many of the technological things that we saw in movies and pop
30:38
culture that sounded vertical became reality.
30:41
So and I don't, you know, the Matrix as in the movie, but the
30:45
concept of us all being on a grid and, you know, basically
30:49
our our minds are uploaded into the grid somehow.
30:52
It's not, yeah, it's a little crazy, but if you had a AI and
30:57
technology sophistication millions of times better than it
31:01
is now, it's, you know, they're already talking.
31:04
I mean, Elon's got a company about loading people, you know,
31:09
basically downloading people's mind and up to the uploading it
31:12
to the Internet. I mean, I'm it is neural like
31:14
thing. I mean, that's some gross
31:16
oversimplification, but I guess my point is millions of times in
31:23
brain power improvement, it's not illogical.
31:26
It's something like that could have happened.
31:28
And if it did, you know, again, the evidence of where we're
31:33
going based on the, the, the exponential increase in
31:37
knowledge gains that we've seen, where we appear to be going as a
31:41
place that could produce that. And if it could, I mean, it
31:44
would kind of make sense that there's a good chance that we're
31:47
already in it. And I, I don't mean to sound
31:49
like a broken record and a nut jab, but again, you know, it's
31:53
kind of back to some of the political dialogue that we have
31:56
about what is truth. Like who's telling the truth?
32:00
You know, media's got a band, the politicians have a band, you
32:04
know, like what is the actual, no kidding truth?
32:07
If we are in indeed in a, in a simulation, how much of history
32:11
is even true? How much of it is just a made-up
32:14
thing? I mean, at what point, you know,
32:16
how do you, if we were in a simulation, how would you ever
32:19
figure out we're in a simulation?
32:21
How would you know? You know, you say that and, and
32:25
of course my mind goes to, you know, all over the East Coast,
32:28
there's places, you know, with cannonball holes in them that
32:31
you, you know what I mean? There's like there's the
32:35
evidence of the battles of the past.
32:38
But then obviously, if the simulation can handle all of
32:43
human consciousness, it can certainly conjure up a
32:46
fraudulent bullet hole here there.
32:50
But then, OK, I guess, I guess where I'm going with this and I
32:55
take it back to AI, like, OK, if AI takes over the stuff we hold
33:02
beneficial to ourselves in our lives, we're going to keep doing
33:07
regardless. Yeah, I, I, you know, and
33:10
honestly, I, I take it even to a political thing like had this
33:15
dialogue with crazy neighbor who I refer to my my neighbor that,
33:20
you know, he loves Donald Trump. I'll say that I'm kidding.
33:23
He does not. But we'll always, you know, we
33:27
would get into these arguments and we every now and again, like
33:30
we're in the run up to the election.
33:32
Well, I think this and I want this and, you know, and I
33:35
probably shared this before, but one of the things he kept saying
33:37
he's like, you know what though? OK, forget all the elections and
33:40
everything else. Our life is about us.
33:44
We're neighbors. We're in our little cul-de-sac
33:46
here. We're going to go to work, we're
33:48
going to come home. This Is Us, like regardless of
33:52
what happens, who gets in office, yeah, we're going to
33:55
argue about it. And we're not going to like
33:57
certain things or we're going to like certain things.
33:59
But you know, and I, I view that like us and our our podcast and
34:02
what we talked about, it's, you know, our life is here.
34:05
You know, none of these people care about us.
34:08
We're going to argue about them. But like, you know, and I guess
34:12
I just take that to this AI thing.
34:13
Like we, we can get so wrapped around the axle, like, Oh my
34:17
gosh, what's going to happen? But we're still going to be
34:20
doing the same thing. I mean, if it kills us all, OK,
34:22
well, there's no idea, but. Well, I have AI think a similar
34:27
philosophy to that, that just, you know, if it turns out to be
34:33
one of these incent, you know, that it's a simulation and then
34:36
it or you know, that there's aliens or the AIT, you know, any
34:43
of that, you know, we're all going to find that out at the
34:47
same time. It it's it's just it it's going
34:50
to be the commonality of human experience around it.
34:53
I think stuff like that comes and goes.
34:56
I guess not alien AI apocalypse. I guess those don't just come
35:03
and go on a regular basis. Well, but I would argue that's
35:09
why part of why our podcast works is I think we have a
35:13
similar viewpoint. Like, like my life's not going
35:18
to be over because somebody, somebody else got in office.
35:21
I might be pissed. I might argue about it, but
35:23
like, yeah, I get get more going on in my life than, you know,
35:28
some political outcome, you know, and I and I think that
35:33
enables us to have a good dialogue, but I don't know that
35:36
everybody's in that space. I know politically there's a lot
35:39
of people that if the other guys in power, it's like it is like
35:43
the end of the world. And the same with the AI stuff.
35:46
I'm sure there's people that are freaking out right now where
35:50
we're at, we're like this book that you're reading.
35:52
Obviously we we build it, we will die barely.
35:59
They're thinking the same thing, but.
36:01
Link link in the show notes. Yeah.
36:08
I mean, you know, again, from a Christian background, we view
36:11
there's going to be the end of the world at some point.
36:13
Well, the things got to end somehow.
36:14
You know, that's extremely apathetic.
36:18
Well, no, it's hard to. I'm, I'm a combination of
36:23
fascinated by these things and kind of don't care.
36:27
Like I'm not scared about it. I'm interested about what people
36:31
are thinking, but it doesn't scare me because I think it's
36:37
going to be what it's going to be.
36:39
I don't know, maybe that's a apathetic attitude.
36:42
I'm. Kind of the same way.
36:43
I mean, I've been going to Phoenix a lot for work lately
36:46
and they have these the way MO there and it's the new Google
36:50
owns it. It's a driverless Uber type of
36:53
thing and I love it. It's like I get that car and
36:58
it's like I don't have to talk to anybody.
37:00
It's cheaper than Uber, which is nice.
37:02
Cars are nice. I just hop in the front seat
37:04
and, you know, work or do whatever.
37:06
And but some people are extremely freaked out about
37:10
that, like, Oh my gosh, I can't get in.
37:12
AI can't get in a car that drives itself.
37:13
And I'm thinking, well, you get in a car with a stranger that
37:17
you don't know if the guy's drunk or what.
37:20
I mean, how's any better, you know?
37:23
Well, crazy neighbor actually, he and some friends were in an
37:26
Uber. It's a couple years ago.
37:28
They're driving and the guy like comes to a stop sign and just
37:32
stops and says would you guys drive because I'm too drunk to
37:37
drive? Not what you want to hear from
37:41
the Uber driver. Well.
37:43
At at least he said yeah at. Least he's so copper.
37:47
Exactly. Hey, thanks for joining us on
37:52
this episode of Bourbon and Rum Podcast.
37:54
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