Latest / CEOs and ABCs / Chris Andrews (European Wax Centre, Unleashed Brands, Smoothie King) on Health and Exercise as the Fundamentals to Great Executive Leadership #014

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Chris Andrews (European Wax Centre, Unleashed Brands, Smoothie King) on Health and Exercise as the Fundamentals to Great Executive Leadership #014 · CEOs and ABCs

• 0:00
  Speaker A: I thought I was going to cry because I teared up once when I saw the date of when they were leaving. And then when I dropped them off, I just felt. Felt happiness for them because I remembered, you know, when I was going to college and starting that part of my life.
• 0:12
  Speaker B: I've seen you lead massive digital transformation. There's a lot of pressure that comes with that. How did you manage to carve out time and maintain those boundaries?
• 0:22
  Speaker A: There was a period of time that I wasn't taking care of myself, and I was at Buffalo Wild Wings, sitting by myself, stuffing my face with wings and drinking beer by myself. Remember sitting at that bar thinking, is this the kind of guy that you want to be? So I stopped the drinking. After work, I started training again. I just, like, fell back in love with Jiu Jitsu and I haven't stopped since. We had lost and my son probably had a rough game and he asked to not ride with me. And man, that. That hit me hard, right? And that for me, I changed. I'd get in the car and say, hey, I loved watching you play today.
• 0:59
  Speaker B: You gave them support and safety. That's really, I think, the foundation of any type of human connection, whether it's with your kids or with your team at work.
• 1:09
  Speaker A: Mistakes happen. What we have to do is make sure we recover quickly. Let's make sure it doesn't happen again.
• 1:15
  Speaker B: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting wins and fails, and everything between. I'm your host, Kevin Rice. Here's today's episode. Today on CEOs and ABCs, I'm sitting down with Chris Andrews, Chief information and digital officer at European Wax Center. Chris is an accomplished technology leader who's led transformational initiatives in his career at household name multi unit brands like Payway, Smoothie King, and Unleash Brands. Chris opens up about dropping his twins off at college and feeling joy, not tears. The routines that keep him calm under pressure, like Jiu Jitsu, the car ride, lessons from coaching youth sports and how that changed who he is and how he parents and why investing in people beats being the smartest person in the room. If you're trying to grow in your career without missing out on the family moments that matter most, you're going to love this episode. My guest today is Chris Andrews. Chris, thank you so much for being here.
• 2:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: It's great to see you. You have had a pretty big milestone in your life and family life. Recently. Your kids are now off to college. How did you kind of make the most of your time before they left?
• 2:31
  Speaker A: Well, I, I took them on a real big great trip to Europe. So we did Italy and Greece. I took two weeks off and told them it was going to be like the trip of a lifetime before I have to kick them out of my house.
• 2:43
  Speaker B: Amazing. How was it? What was the highlights?
• 2:46
  Speaker A: I tell you what, Italy is awesome. Loved the food. But when we got to Greece, it was off the charts. The people, the water, the terrain, the food. We've never had a bad meal there. Everybody was so nice. Really was. It was, it was an incredible trip.
• 3:02
  Speaker B: That's beautiful. I'm so glad for you that you got to spend that quality time with them before they left. Did that kind of start to emotionally prepare you for the day you dropped them off at college?
• 3:14
  Speaker A: Yeah, I've always tried to, to have special moments with them and take them on little trips and to have that big trip right with them for two weeks was good for my soul. It was good for our relationship and it really kind of settled me. When the time came to drop them off, I thought I was gonna cry because I teared up once when we were. When I saw the date of like when they were leaving, I started to tear it up like, no, come on, man, you're tougher than that. And then when I dropped them off, uh, I just felt, felt happiness for them. Right. Cause I remembered, you know, when I was going to college and starting that part of my life, uh, and so I'm just, I'm looking forward to, to seeing what, what they do with their lives. It's going to be great.
• 3:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, I honestly, I tear up sometimes just thinking about it. And my kids are so far away from that day, but yeah, just sending them off into the world. I, It's a like really emotional period for, for any parent how if you kind of look back as your kids were growing up from toddlers to teens and now young adults, like, how has your relationship changed with them over the years?
• 4:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, always any sport they played, even if I didn't play that sport growing up, I coached them. And so that, that was one non negotiable for me coming up in my career that whenever they had practices and games, like, I had to be there. Cause I'm the coach. And over that time you move from coach where you're instructing and now I, I've gotten to where they're old enough now where I'm, I'm listening and they're bouncing ideas off of me, but I'm not having to be directive like I was when they were little. And certainly they, they did not appreciate the yelling on the soccer field, I can tell you that for sure.
• 4:53
  Speaker B: Yeah. You ever get any, get kicked out of any games?
• 4:56
  Speaker A: You know what? This is pretty amazing. All my years, the only time I got kicked out was two seasons ago, one time. But, but I did it for the coach because the coach was about to get, get kicked out and I, because I was on the sidelines with them and I told him, I said, hey, I got this, don't worry.
• 5:13
  Speaker B: That's great. How did you manage to carve out that time? I mean, you've had an incredibly successful career. I've known you for years and I've seen you go from a vice president to a CIO CTO at multiple large organizations. And I've seen you lead massive digital transformation initiatives. There's a lot of pressure that comes with that. So how did you manage to carve out time and maintain those boundaries as the pressure of work was probably constantly pulling at you?
• 5:46
  Speaker A: I'm very disciplined and I run a really, really tight schedule. And so when I had, when I knew I had those moments where I had to be at a practice at like say six o', clock, right, I make sure I'd get to the office super early, but I still would get in my workouts. I mean, it's all a matter of I have to adjust, right? So I have to make sure that I'm eating healthy, I'm going to sleep on the right time, I'm maintaining my hobbies and my workouts. And I, and I know I can fit everything in as long as I'm disciplined enough and efficient with, with my time. But then there was a period of time when I had switched jobs that I wasn't taking care of myself. And, and that was a really bad two years for me. From a health perspective, from a professional perspective, wasn' working out. I wasn't training. I had a couple, a couple health issues. I had sciatica. I mean, I had like old person stuff. I mean, it was crazy. You know, I made a bad decision on, on a move just to avoid where I was. And I remember one night, you know, I'm. I had not been working out. I hadn't been training into jiu jitsu, and I go, I go sit at a bar and I'm drinking. I was at Buffalo Wild Wings. I still remember this. And I'm like, the hell am I doing? Like, why, why, why am I sitting here by myself, stuffing my face with these wings and drinking beer by myself. I'm gonna start training again. And so I found a jiu jitsu gym out there and I started going to it. And I was still a white belt at the time, and that propelled me and got me back into jiu jitsu. And then I earned my. My blue belt that, that fall. But I really credit, like, I still remember, like, I'm getting chills right now thinking about that. I remember sitting at that bar thinking, is this the kind of guy that you want to be? And. And, you know, and I sat there and I said, no, this is not what I want to do. And so I stopped the, the drinking after, after work, and I started training again. And then I just, like, fell back in love with, with jiu jitsu. And I haven't stopped since. Like, I mean, when I travel, I train, even international I train. It's like, I tell people all the time, like, even if you travel, oh, well, do you go to the gyms at the hotels? Like, they're not very good. I said, doing something's better than nothing. And so I will go in there and I'll figure a workout out. Is it going to be like the crunch fitness or eos that I go to? Like, no, but it's better than just laying in my bed and not getting around moving. And, you know, now I've been training for 11 years. It's crazy.
• 8:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I saw recently you placed at the Dallas Open.
• 8:11
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, I had two. Two. It was pretty nice. And my coach told me I'm getting my black belt on, like, January, February timeframe. So I'm like, I'm so stoked for that.
• 8:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's so important. I mean, when I used to travel, I think there was a period where I self sacrificed a lot growing our company. I felt like I needed to be everywhere, always on at the events, at the mixers, doing everything I possibly could. And I noticed the same thing. My health was failing, not just physically, but emotionally and mentally. And as I made that shift and start, started prioritizing myself, which meant being disciplined and saying no to a lot of things. It meant saying no to the drinks after the conference so that I could get up in the morning and exercise. And what's funny is somebody on the, you know, I was on the vendor side, like, growing the company. I found that I would run into people that I wanted to talk to at the gym in the morning, not necessarily out for drinks at 11 o' clock at night. So I just found that, like, taking care of myself ultimately benefited my career in so many different ways.
• 9:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, when you're, when you are eating right and you're working out, you feel better, you think better. Right. And that makes me a better husband, father, leader, and, you know, and I can go back and look at the times that I wasn't taking care of myself and it was chaos, you know, it was chaos in my life.
• 9:39
  Speaker B: Hi, Kevin here. If you're enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who's working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I'd really love it if you could share this episode with them. It's one of the best ways you can help us and help more leaders build their careers in a way that they're proud of without missing the moments that matter most. How has training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu translated into who you are as a, as a man and then who you are as a leader and as a parent?
• 10:10
  Speaker A: It's had a really huge impact on my life. I've kind of been a hot tempered person. I'm very passionate. And one of the very first things that you just will do to somebody is it really kind of breaks you down because you get in there and you're like, I'm not as tough as I thought I was mentally and physically. You're exhausted and it changes, like in your mind. I know how to not start thinking under pressure now and, you know, train in the morning. And so kind of my philosophy's been do a lot of hard things first thing in the morning and the rest of the day is easy. Right. Like, you can deal with work stuff that's not as bad. Like I had a 200 pound guy trying to choke me out this morning. You gotta, he put those things in perspective. And so it's, it's really molded me over the last, you know, decade plus to, to be calmer, to be, be very calm under stressful situations. And I always thought I was, but looking back, me now versus me 15 years ago, totally different. And that poured into my life with my kids, the way I react with my wife. And, you know, it's an activity for me that I'm very thankful that I got involved in and I still continue to do.
• 11:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, I grew up doing karate and then at probably, I don't know, maybe I was like 11 years old. My dad got into an early kind of like UFC training camp. And so I was around guys from the very early days of ufc, like Don Fry, Dan Severn, and I just remember, like, seeing how hard these guys would train and I was just a little kid rolling on the mats. And I think that left such a big impression upon me. I didn't necessarily pursue it for the rest of my life, but it was like foundational. Learned so many lessons in those early days. How do you think you've evolved as a leader over the course of your career? Like some of the values and approaches you're sharing now, I think that is very aspirational. It's what we all want to be. Were you always that way? Was this an evolution? Would you have been described differently earlier in your career than you would be described today?
• 12:17
  Speaker A: For a hundred percent. And so I mentioned after, so on the Border was my first leadership role and I was there for five years. And it's funny because I told my boss there at the time, like, pen, you're crazy for hiring me there. I'd never run my own shop. I'd been in the restaurant industry for like three months. I'm like. And you expected me to carve this out from Brinker? Like, you're, you're crazy, dude. And I'm so thankful that he gave me that opportunity. And I'm actually back working with him again. So he's the CEO of European Wax Center. He made a big impact on my life. But, you know, I was still pretty young. You know, I was 34 when I was running a shop for the first time, which was kind of crazy. A lot of that I was just trying to do by instinct, trying to use, you know, what I'd learned from, from my dad, because I was very fortunate to have that in my teen years, getting to see how to run a business. But I'll tell you that the biggest moment for me, it came when, after I left on the Border. So the kind of mistake jump that I made, you know, I ended, I ended up getting let go from there. And it was, it was a pivotal moment for me because I had always been a high performer when I was in consulting. I always sold a ton. I was very chargeable. You know, I never lacked for work. And so I'd always been used to like getting accolades. And so that two year stretch where I wasn't a fit for the role, I didn't properly vet it. And to get let go, I really had to take some stock. And so I sat back and I said, man, why, why did this happen? And I looked in at myself and really started journaling out, like, what are the things that I need to make me happy? What are the Things that I can thrive in a professional setting. What does that look like? And then I started reading leadership books. And before that, like, my hubris told me, like, ah, leaders are born and you don't need to study that stuff. And I had time because I didn't have a job. And so I just started pouring into these books. And Patrick Lencioni went through all of his books and I just started consuming as much as I could and I'm writing these things down. And then when I got to Payway, that was my first time to start. Start instituting the things that I had learned. And then I kept a lot of those, but I've migrated and formed them and evolved them over the years. But I tell people that was my worst time in my career and the best time in my career because I honestly feel like if I didn't have that moment where I just got like, knocked the wind out of me, knocked me off the chair, I don't think I'd be as good of a leader today if that didn't happen.
• 14:55
  Speaker B: When you were doing that inner work, inner reflection, which I applaud you for. I think a lot of people, after they get let go, they move into victim mode and they blame the company. They don't take stock in their role in why it happened. What things did you learn about yourself when you were doing that? Sort of like journaling and inner introspection?
• 15:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I learned that I had to get back to taking care of myself, physically, eating right, that it really made a big impact on my performance at work and how I feel about myself. Again, you get hit in the face and you're like, you know, I don't need to know everything. I need to rely on people a little bit more and not try to dictate and tell everybody how to do stuff. And so that, that really helped me, that to go from being so directive and involved to trusting my people and really kind of treating them different and then focusing time on, like, staff meetings. Right. That something so small that has such a big impact. And I picked that up from those books that I wasn't doing it before. I'm just like, they're fine. We joke around in the halls. Everybody's good. I have a good relationship with them. And I think people that had worked for me again at Payway and Smoothie King, that had worked with me before and on the border, they commented to me, man, you run in the department way different now. You like it. And so I just had to have that willingness to change, willingness to try things and then just admit when, like I don't know and go ask somebody, call somebody up. I just called a friend of mine the other day. He's been. He's been in multi unit longer than me. And I said, hey, I just want to bounce the situation off of you and give me your feedback because people are kind of telling me that I'm wrong. I kind of don't feel like I'm wrong and I just need a voice of reason. I chatted on the phone for 20, 30 minutes and I really appreciated that. And so I think having those kind of relationships are huge. Friendships with other peers and being there for them. Cause I know then when I have these moments, they're going to be there for me.
• 17:04
  Speaker B: Yeah. You mentioned earlier that you coached for a while. What was your experience like coaching youth sports? Did you learn a lot about yourself through that process? We had a guest on Jeff Jenkins who said that was probably the biggest turning point for him in his relationship with his son was starting to coach youth baseball. And I've never coached my kids before, so I'm curious what that experience was like for you and how important it was for your family.
• 17:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, it was. So highs and lows. One, I've always loved coaching. When I was a senior in high school, like I coached our junior high team at Nolan Catholic in Fort Worth. I've just always naturally been. Been drawn to it. So. So one I love. I love coaching. You know, it was, it was a. It was joy is joyful for me. I really liked being around them. I loved all those kids. And I'd say the lows unfortunately come for my. My kids because so. And again, this is another pivotal time that I remember after a baseball game I think we had lost and my son probably had a rough game and he, he asked to not ride with me and wanted to ride with my wife. And man, like that, that hit me hard, right? That I'm like, man, this. This little dude that I love so much doesn't want to ride with me because I'm going to beat him down over all the mistakes that he made. And that for me, I changed. And I wasn't always perfect after that, but a lot of the times I'd get in the car and say, hey, I loved watching you play today. And if there's anything you want from me, from my perspective, let me know. If not, I'm not going to say anything else about it. And after doing that several times, then they would say, hey, what do you think I should have done on this? And Then we had this conversation and connection over it. Hey, I just got chills again because, like, it changed, right? Because now my kids weren't scared to get in the car with me anymore. They were happy to get in the car and then they would even bring it up. Man, I can't believe I did, blah, blah, blah. And I'm just kind of sitting there like, yeah.
• 19:04
  Speaker B: Well, what it sounds like is you gave them safety, right? You gave them support and safety so that they knew that it doesn't matter if they mess up. You still love them, you're still there to support them. And that's really, I think, the foundation of any type of human connection, whether it's with your kids or with your team at work. If they don't feel safe to make mistakes, then there's never going to be that likeness to have a dialogue or have a real, like, connection with them. So, I mean, that's a. That's a beautiful example of helping your kids feel safe and then seeing it evolve and your relationship flourish from it. Do you do something similar in work, in creating a, like, safe environment so that your team can kind of share their challenges or share their struggles or their failures with you?
• 19:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, and I tell everybody this, that we are all going to make mistakes. It happens. What we have to do when we make a mistake is we need to own it, we need to fix it and make sure it doesn't happen again.
• 20:06
  Speaker B: Have you, have you had any instances where an employee has just made a glaring mistake and it costs the business for sure?
• 20:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I think every place I've been, somebody's done something where you're like, what happened? Yeah, we pushed out a bad code and we took point of sale down at. At Smoothie King. When I was at Unleashed, our DBA dropped the little gym database completely and then went home. I mean, that's a pretty bad ones. I don't think I've had any here yet because I've only been at European Wax for six months. But there's plenty of time. Yeah, in technology, there's plenty of time for somebody to trip over the. The power cord to the server.
• 20:46
  Speaker B: How do you handle that conversation and. Or discipline when something like a glaring mistake happens like that?
• 20:54
  Speaker A: Yeah. First I tell them, like, listen, I understand mistakes happen. Like, what we have to do is make sure we recover quickly. And then we. We need to reevaluate why, you know, evaluate why that happened. And let's, let's make sure it doesn't happen again. Because whatever audience that I impacted Whether it's franchisees, whether it's company owned stores, it's my executive team or the company wide, I want to be able to go back to them and own it. Here's what we did, here's why it happened, and here's why it won't happen again.
• 21:25
  Speaker B: Yeah. So you take responsibility, you know, for the situation as a leader. Right. That's what we do. I think it's really interesting because that's how you would obviously show up in a professional setting. But then a lot of times I see parents at the park and you know, maybe their kid hits another kid or takes a toy from another kid and instead of like seeking to understand and taking some ownership as a parent, they'll immediately go over and be like, you did something wrong, you're on timeout, I'm taking you home from the park. And so there's just this very difference in how a lot of people will discipline and treat their kid when they make a mistake versus how they would handle it in a professional setting.
• 22:08
  Speaker A: You're, I mean, you're exactly right. Right. Like, you give grace to people that you, you barely know or you kind of know way more than you do to your own family.
• 22:18
  Speaker B: Right. And, and you're not even taking into the context of, you're giving grace to a grown adult who can understand the logic of it, yet your child's brains are like 20% developed and you know, authoritarianly, you're, you're telling they're on timeout or, you know, you're going to take away their favorite toy. And, and I get it. That's the way that I think a lot of people were parented by their parents, but when you just look at it logically, it just doesn't make sense at all.
• 22:47
  Speaker A: No, you're, you are exactly right. Yeah, that is, it is crazy.
• 22:52
  Speaker B: Did you ever have any points again with your, your kids playing sports? Did you ever have any moments where maybe they wanted to quit mid season and you had to consider, do I push them to finish or do I, do I allow them to make their own decisions and, you know, quit halfway through the season?
• 23:10
  Speaker A: So one that would, I would never allow my kid to quit during a season. And, and I had a perfect example. My daughter, we had left her club and then we came back to her club, but it had a new coach and when she left, she was a starter. She got back, she wasn't a starter. You know, she had to earn her spot. So she's not getting the playing time she wants. She's. I want to quit. He doesn't like me. And I said, come sit in my office. And we sat in there and I said, how many goals have you scored so far? Well, none. Okay, so when you start scoring goals, then he's going to recognize that you can play, but you need, you are trying to unseat a starter, and so you're going to have to do so much more. If she scores one, you need to score two. Okay? You always have to do more than her, and you've got to outwork everybody else on that team. And if you do that and you still don't get recognized, then we can have a conversation. But until that moment, don't come in here crying to me that the coach doesn't like you and that you want to quit. And that girl took that to heart. I mean, and she ended up getting a starting spot within, like, weeks from having that conversation. Like, it was, it was so cool to see. But yeah, that is not something I would allow my kids to do. You start something, you're going to finish it. And I tell them that all the time. Guys, nobody cares how you started. They care how you finish, and that's how they're going to remember you. So, so don't, don't slack off towards the end. You hold your head up high and you, you work as hard as you can, even if that person doesn't recognize it. I'll know and you'll know.
• 24:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great lesson. And like, follow through, finishing what you start. Resilience, grit, are, those are all great family values. Are there other values that you've look to instill or pass on to your children and hope that they carry with them into life and adulthood?
• 24:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think being, being kind to people, you know, I'm, I'm pretty friendly. I'm, I'm an extrovert. And, you know, I have a, the reason I have a good network is not because I, I send emails all the time or anything else. It's because I, I, I care about people that I know and I'll even check in with them to see how they're doing. And I think again, getting back to, you know, our, our faith and, and our Christianity, treating people how that you would want to be treated, but also holding yourself where they're going to know, like, that you are a Christian out there. And honestly, like that, that's something that I've struggled with between work and personal life over the years. And I went through a big period where, you know, I, I didn't talk about my faith and I didn't talk about church. And you know, shame, shame on me for not doing that. Um, and, and you know, it's like. Because I could see I'm preaching that to my kids, right when they're talking to, to non believers that they're friends with. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not even doing that. Like that was convicting. Convicting.
• 26:00
  Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's, it is interesting how it's such a taboo to talk about kind of like politics and religion or faith as just something that's not really talked about in the corporate world. And I'd go as far to say for a lot of men, they don't really talk about this concept of parenting either. It seems to be more of a common discussion among women leaders where they talk about how hard it is to be a mother and juggle career. But it doesn't seem to be a topic of conversation among men about like, the struggle of balancing like, ambitious careers with also being a good parent. But it sounds like you have a lot of great values that you have helped share with your kids. And like I said, they will take on with them as they go through college and into their adult life.
• 26:53
  Speaker A: I sure hope so. I'm looking forward to it.
• 26:58
  Speaker B: And when you're evolving in your leadership role, it sounds like you put in some kind of rituals in place and routines with staff meetings, probably one on ones. Did you have any sort of similar, like, rituals or routines in your family life that helped you strengthen your connection with your, your children and your wife?
• 27:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, prioritizing church for us is a big thing and it's hard when the kids are doing sports, you know, and so sometimes even if the schedule was tough, like, hey, we're going to sit on the couch and watch church. We may not go to church today, but we're going to watch it. And I know that's not always the right thing for us. Like having that, that spiritual connection is huge. And then for me, you know, being there for my kids and not missing stuff. Right. Even when I. Even when they got so good that I couldn't coach them anymore, being there and showing up and then the kids and I have a special bond with watching soccer and so we're big Liverpool supporters. When my kids are like five or six, I'd bring them to the pub that work the. Where they play the Liverpool matches. And so we'd be there like six in the morning. And my wife's like, you're taking our kids to a pub? I'm like, well, I mean, they're not drinking, they're just going to watch a soccer game.
• 28:13
  Speaker B: That's, that's great. I, I love how you were able to maintain your relationship as a family through like common interests, but also then having it kind of grounded in that weekly ritual of your spirituality. I think having routines in your family life really helps strengthen connection just as much as it does in a, in a corporate setting. So kind of speaking of that is like, as you think about your work career, you've gone from some major brands like Payway and Smoothie King, Unleash brands, which has a collection of really fun family brands. And now you're at European Wax Center. Kind of what does the pressure look like as a C level executive at these kind of brands? You mentioned some of the ways you manage that pressure. But like, how do you manage to not carry that stress and pressure with you into your home life?
• 29:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's tough. I mean, because the spotlight is always on you. Right. You have investors, you have your other executive team members. And I've been doing franchising now exclusively for the last six, seven years. So I have like hundreds of bosses out there. And so it's, it's tough. But for me, I compartmentalize a lot of what, what I have from a work stress perspective to make sure that I don't bring it in the home. But I do think with having the kind of routines that I have and getting out like all that aggression and jiu jitsu or at the gym and doing the sauna and cold plunge, that I'm telling you that those activities for me like it, it just lifts it off of me and it really makes it to where I have a very calm presence at work and at home because of it. But it's hard. And listen, even though the last five years have been great for me from working out and taking care of myself perspective, I still have moments, right. Or stretches of time when you have high stress going on, projects not going well, platforms down, can't take payments, whatever it is, it's hard. That's why I'm in the position that I'm in that I can't, I can't crack and I need to show lead by example for the rest of my team. Like, calm down guys. We're going to work through this. You know, let's, let's start, let's start doing, you know, walking through all the things that we have to do.
• 30:33
  Speaker B: Yeah. And have there been moments where like the tug really pulled you away? From things that you wanted to do in your personal life.
• 30:42
  Speaker A: Sure. I mean, there's, there's times when, especially if you have an outage, it'd be easy for me, I think maybe at my level to say, okay, I'm just going to let my VP and you know, my managers handle this. And you know, we had a, we had had a major, major outage when I was here. We had one that was eight hours. And I stayed on that call with those guys all day. And then I was taking calls up until 8, 9 o' clock at night. And so that was. I had to sacrifice time with my family that night. But you know, in that instance, like, I needed to be there for my team. I, I needed to lead by example. And it would have been real easy to say, okay, well guys, just give me an update, let me know later. But I stayed there kind of shoulder to shoulder with them.
• 31:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, I've certainly been there myself. Late nights, long hours, you know, kind of doing what it takes. I noticed for me, it started to get too frequent where it wasn't a occasional thing. It was consistent. Long hours, lots of travel. Almost every night was a deadline and I was up working late. And I noticed that I was starting to miss too many commitments with my kids. Did you ever have periods where work was intruding too much on your family and you like missed anything that you really wanted to be a part of? And if so, how did you like, repair with your family and kind of reset?
• 31:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, thankfully those times for me was like really early. So I don't think the kids remember all that much. You know, I was consulting when they were real little. I went back to grad school when they were babies. And then I took on the job at on the Border. That was probably the time that I was like, it was, it was tough. But you know what? I. And I'm going to age myself with this too, if you can't tell with all the white hair. But I get on Skype and I'd have my wife Skype with the kids in the morning because I used to get to the office at like 5 in the morning because I had, I was going to work out, get to my desk by 6, and then I had to leave at 4 or 5 because I was going to night school and I would get home at 9 or 10 o' clock at night. So I, I mean, there was a season in my life where I didn't see them wake up and I wouldn't see them go to bed, but I would see them on the computer and I get on Skype and I'm like, hey, guys, love you. Sorry I can't be there. Daddy's just really busy right now. But, you know, this weekend we're going to do X or whatever it is. And, you know, and so again, I'm thankful for me that they're so small. Like, they probably don't even remember that I remember it, but I was. I still made sure I was intentional with. They see my face and I see them even though I couldn't be there in person.
• 33:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, I can relate to that. I think my kids were pretty young during my heaviest work periods, and so now they don't know me in that way. I don't think they really even remember all of the travel in the late nights and because I was able to take some time off and do a real reset on me and how I wanted to create a career that had more synergy and balance with my personal life. Now, you know, they know we have certain periods of the day that we're together. We have rituals that we do consistently to build our connection. And yeah, like, ultimately, as a ambitious leader, there's gonna be periods in our life where there's more workload than not. But I think, like, how you repair and how you reset into more of a balanced approach is. Is the key.
• 34:09
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, and to recognizing if it's a season or is this the new norm? That's a really, really important thing. Right. I mean, when you start getting to upper levels, you know, the responsibility, the pay, the pressure, all of that comes with it. But you have to recognize, you know, hey, I think that is this a season or this is my new norm now. And like, when it's a new norm, that's when you have to step back and say, man, I need to make some changes.
• 34:36
  Speaker B: Right, Absolutely. That's. That's a great criteria to check in after a few months of, like, high stress, long hours, taking stock and, and kind of being honest with yourself about, like, if I continue down this path, what is that life gonna look like versus do I need to actually make a change here?
• 34:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 34:57
  Speaker B: And as you were going through that career evolution, did you have a similar evolution as a parent and in your family life?
• 35:04
  Speaker A: For sure, yeah. I mean, I think when. When things are chaotic at work, they're going to be chaotic at home and vice versa. Right. I mean, because there. I don't know if there's a real work life balance. It's more like work life synergy and everything is so intertwined. Now, especially with the way technology is that, yeah, I had to make those adjustments. And I think my wife and kids would probably say at the time that I was at that other job that I was more stressed out and more like quick to get angry, you know, and you know, things that you're not proud of as a parent when you look back on it, like, man, I wish I hadn't said that or wish I hadn't done that, you know, but if you can learn from it and move forward and correct it, then, I mean, that's all you can do.
• 35:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think the repair is really important both in career and at home. How you show up when you have done something that you kind of regret or you feel like you could have shown up better as a leader or a parent and, and then making those adjustments, moving forward when, when you look back across your, your EIO journey, what like leadership lessons have shaped you the most both as an executive, as a, as a person and a parent?
• 36:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think one, and this is, I got this lesson from my current boss. So mind you, I came out of consulting where you have to pretend that you're the smartest guy and you know everything. And we were sitting in a meeting once and he was CFO back then and, and the guy's up talking about something and he just put his hand up like, I don't understand what you're saying. Like, can you explain that please? And I was like, we're allowed to do that. I'm allowed to say that I don't know. Something like that was, that was eye opening for me because I really felt like going into, when I was at on the border, I felt like, man, I need to know everything. Like I need to be the expert in all of this. And you know, and then talking, I saw that modeled for me. I was very fortunate to get in to a servant leadership group and these guys were all pretty seasoned CIOs and like, you know, I'm the 34 year old whippersnapper in there not knowing what the heck I'm doing and probably shouldn't even been in charge. But I was so fortunate to have those guys pour into me and be there for me and I could ask them these questions because I had to navigate so much stuff that I'd never had to deal with, deal with before. And so I think that that's a huge lesson is, is getting, getting your network in recognizing that you don't need to know everything and you don't need to do everything either. Like, why do you hire people, you hire people that are experts at their job. And so I can't be an expert for everybody in my department. I just, I'm not that good and I'm not that smart. Right. But I can be there to support.
• 37:49
  Speaker B: Them for, for others who maybe are earlier in their career and they aspire to the kind of roles that you've had in your career. Do you have any advice for them on advancing through the levels to get up to the C suite?
• 38:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, so a couple of things, I think. One, make sure you have a good network and get, get as involved as you can and meet people from different industries and different companies. That's going to be huge, having a good network. The second piece is don't, don't be afraid to take risk. I have taken risk time and time again in my career. Again, I said earlier that my boss never should have hired me on the border. Like, I should have never taken that job. You know, it was a bare asset sale. There was no department. I was number one. I had to hire everybody new and we had to put a new point of sale system, a new network, a new phones. I mean, it was everything we had to redo within just a little over a year. And I, man, I look back at that, I said, gosh, man, I was crazy to take that kind of job. And I think that's what holds a lot of people back, is one not believing in themselves and to being too risk adverse. Go do it. What's the worst that's going to happen? Right? Okay. I mean, maybe you failed at something or maybe you realized like, like what happened to me when I got let go, that I need to make some changes. Like, this is. I'm not, I'm not as good as I thought I was. Right. And I've got to improve myself in so many different areas. But yeah, you've got to take risks and don't be afraid to fail.
• 39:23
  Speaker B: We took so many risks at Hathaway. Literally, like almost every project was something we hadn't done before up until maybe the last three or four years when we got more specialized in the restaurant industry. It was constantly doing something that we had never done before, maybe nobody had done before. And most of the time we would pull through. There were certainly some times where it failed spectacularly and we learned a lot of lessons. But yeah, if we had said, well, we've never done that before, what gives us the right to do this? We would have never continued to advance as a company. And I think it's the same in a Professional career, you have to stretch yourself and you have to try new things. And, yeah, there might be some spectacular fails, but hopefully you can learn from it. And then there's going to be a lot of wins along the way. And I think that's really the only way that you're going to continue to move up into the role that you aspire to have.
• 40:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. I mean, I got that job at Payway because of what I did at on the border. They were doing the exact same thing. I remember messaging this guy. I wasn't happy where I was. I get let go. I'm on LinkedIn, and I just happen to see this posting. So I respond to the guy, what's this about? And he tells me, and I'm like, listen, dude, I just did that in 2010. I can bring the team, like, they'll work with me again, and I can give you references like, we killed it over there. And so, like, he had messaged me back, and, like, I had a. I had a pester that guy. And then when I got in there, they're like, oh, my gosh, why have we not seen you sooner? And I'm like, because your recruiter, like, didn't get me in here fast enough, you know, but, yeah, it was. It was great. But if I hadn't taken that risk, I probably wouldn't have gotten that payway job. And. And I'd been interviewing for a CIO position in Atlanta. Like, I could have uprooted my family and moved them to Atlanta. So, I mean, all of those things together, you know, I mean, it was the building blocks.
• 41:20
  Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of the lessons we learn in our. In our leadership evolution either parallel or they are strikingly similar to how we grow as a leader of our family and as a parent. What lessons kind of stand out to you that really shaped you as a father?
• 41:37
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think one. We talked a little bit about the grace factor, and then me wanting to be my authentic self at the office and at home. And when I was able to get all of that right and get it together, it paid dividends with how I interacted with. With my kids and with my wife, again, being intentional with her and making sure we're taking time because it's real easy to get focused on work and kids, not the wife. Right. And so making sure we were. We were staying connected, you know, and nurturing that the way that we should.
• 42:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's really important. Right. You have multiple priorities. You have career, but you also have your relationship with your partner, your relationship with your kids, and then yourself. And it sounds like you do a lot of things to take care of yourself. I love the oxygen mask analogy of, like, you can't help somebody else if you don't put your oxygen mask on first. And so we've, we've heard a lot of great examples from you on how to take care of yourself that you can, so you can show up better for your partner, your family and in your career. If you were to leave one, you know, like, legacy for your children, you know, what is it you hope they would say about the career, the life that you've built, and how you showed up for them over these last 17 or 18 years?
• 43:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'd want them to say that I cared about people and I wanted the best for people and never, never begrudged anybody for what, wanting something better for their lives. I do. I care deeply about my friends and the people that I work with and always want the best for them. I think early on, maybe not even, maybe in my career, real early on, I'd get jealous, right? You see, somebody has something or they got promoted. Why didn't get promoted? I can't even pinpoint a time where that switched for me. But I think now, like, I'm joyful for people when it's like, oh, so and so just transacted and they sold a company or so and so just got a new role. I'm like, man, that's awesome. Like, that is. That is really fantastic. And I'm sincere when I say it to them.
• 43:55
  Speaker B: Chris, thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate how open you were about the season of life, dropping your kids off at college, the lessons you've carried with you from youth sports, the discipline it takes to show up both as a great leader and a great dad. I know our listeners are going to walk away with so much from your perspective. It's been an honor to have you on, on the show. Thank you again for joining me.
• 44:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I feel like we just picked up where we left off. Like, I'm imagining being at the Gaylord and you and I just sitting there, sitting there talking. So now this was, this was wonderful. And thank you very much for having me on and all the nice things you said about me. I do appreciate it. Thank you.
• 44:33
  Speaker B: If you're enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. CEOs and ABCs all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We've got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow, and stay tuned.