Latest / Foul Territory / Inside Boston’s Alex Cora decision w/Pete Abraham + Former MLB Exec Zack Scott talks Sox & Mets mess

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Inside Boston’s Alex Cora decision w/Pete Abraham + Former MLB Exec Zack Scott talks Sox & Mets mess · Foul Territory

0:03
Speaker 1: P. D.
0:03
Speaker 2: Abraham from the Boston Globe joining us right now live
0:05
Speaker 2: on foul Territory.
0:07
Speaker 1: Pee.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good to see you and you know what you're here for.
0:09
Speaker 2: We appreciate the time, man you yeah, a little something, Hey,
0:17
Speaker 2: your job is always interesting. Do you think that Alex
0:20
Speaker 2: kra is truly happy and relieved right now? To me,
0:26
Speaker 2: that was the sense that I got. But you're around
0:28
Speaker 2: the team all the time. Did you feel like there
0:31
Speaker 2: was tension and he's getting paid now to hang out
0:34
Speaker 2: with his family and not deal with the constant drama
0:37
Speaker 2: up there.
0:39
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know that he's necessarily glad. I could
0:42
Speaker 3: not be managing because that's something that means very a
0:45
Speaker 3: lot to him. But I do think there's been a
0:47
Speaker 3: lot of unnecessary drama with the Red Sox over the
0:50
Speaker 3: last few years, not much of it actually related to him.
0:53
Speaker 3: It's been more personnel wise. And he texted me yesterday
0:57
Speaker 3: during the game in Baltimore that he said, I'm happy,
1:00
Speaker 3: I'm going to see my kids, and you know, he
1:01
Speaker 3: seems like he's completely content with what happened now. You know,
1:05
Speaker 3: it's also true that this team is not a well
1:08
Speaker 3: put together team. He's got a lot of problems figuring
1:11
Speaker 3: out the day to day lineup and who fits where,
1:13
Speaker 3: and I think there's frustration there. And I also wonder
1:17
Speaker 3: if he's going to be managing another major league team
1:18
Speaker 3: before this year's out, because I think there's a very
1:20
Speaker 3: good chance of that.
1:22
Speaker 1: Pete.
1:22
Speaker 4: I talked to Alex, and I've known Alex. I played
1:24
Speaker 4: against Alex, you know, forever, and if you're his brother.
1:28
Speaker 5: I know him.
1:29
Speaker 4: So I texted him and he texted me, I'm happy.
1:32
Speaker 4: Is that just his go to line? I'm happy? He's
1:35
Speaker 4: just texting everybody I'm happy. I mean, I know he
1:37
Speaker 4: tweeted and he got into a little bit more with me.
1:40
Speaker 4: You know that I'm not going to talk about, but
1:42
Speaker 4: as soon as I text him, he just responded with
1:44
Speaker 4: I'm happy. And I'm like, yeah, I saw your tweet, dude,
1:46
Speaker 4: Like I get you're happy, but you know, like, let's
1:50
Speaker 4: me on a little more personal level. But do you
1:52
Speaker 4: just think that was his way of kind of getting
1:55
Speaker 4: it to go away?
1:57
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's funny because I you're probably one
2:01
Speaker 3: of twenty people who said to me that he's going
2:03
Speaker 3: to tuxon ox scorer to this that I'm happy. So
2:04
Speaker 3: that's obviously the message that he's trying to send out there.
2:07
Speaker 3: So it's just been I even think going back to
2:11
Speaker 3: spring training when Hot their team wasn't around because of
2:13
Speaker 3: the WBC. It's been a very disjointed season for the
2:15
Speaker 3: Red Sox, and it played out once the season started,
2:19
Speaker 3: and you could see just in his face. I think
2:22
Speaker 3: over the last week or so that he was just
2:24
Speaker 3: getting frustrated by that they couldn't get any traction. They
2:26
Speaker 3: could have win two games in a row, never mind three,
2:29
Speaker 3: And I was surprised that they fired as many guys
2:32
Speaker 3: as they did and that Alex was one of them.
2:35
Speaker 1: But it feels like.
2:36
Speaker 3: From John Henry and Sam Kennedy and Craig Breslo, you know,
2:39
Speaker 3: that whole front office crew, they just felt like this
2:41
Speaker 3: team was not going to get back on the right track.
2:44
Speaker 5: You said, you feel like you could possibly join up
2:47
Speaker 5: with another team. There's two teams, Phillies and the Mets,
2:50
Speaker 5: who are struggling right now. Do you feel like do
2:52
Speaker 5: you honestly feel like he would be somebody that would say, no,
2:56
Speaker 5: I don't want to sit at home, I want to
2:57
Speaker 5: get back on a big league field.
3:00
Speaker 3: Well, all I can tell you is every time the
3:01
Speaker 3: Red Sox played the Phillies in spring training. In the
3:03
Speaker 3: last two years in Fort Myers are in clear Water,
3:06
Speaker 3: Alex has spent about thirty to forty five minutes talking
3:08
Speaker 3: to Dave Debrowski before those games, and those guys are
3:11
Speaker 3: still very close from the time they spent together with
3:13
Speaker 3: the Red Sox. One of the things that Dave Dobrowski
3:17
Speaker 3: prioritized when he became the the president Baseball Operations with
3:20
Speaker 3: the Red Sox was to hire Alex Cora. And so
3:24
Speaker 3: if the Phillies feel like they need to make a
3:26
Speaker 3: change and they want to bring in somebody who can
3:28
Speaker 3: lead a veteran team to the World Series, I don't
3:31
Speaker 3: know how you could do better than the guy like
3:32
Speaker 3: Alex Cora, especially given his history with Kyle Schwarber, his
3:36
Speaker 3: history with Dombrowski. You know, it would seem like it
3:38
Speaker 3: would be a pretty good fit. Now, Klora is, you know,
3:41
Speaker 3: I think very respectful of other managers. He's not going
3:43
Speaker 3: to be out there campaigning for the job. But if
3:46
Speaker 3: Debrowski decides to make a move, I have to think
3:48
Speaker 3: Alex is going to be his first call.
3:51
Speaker 4: He's making seven and a half, seven and a half
3:53
Speaker 4: I believe the next two years, so he's get about
3:55
Speaker 4: thirteen million dollars not to be the manager of the
3:58
Speaker 4: Red Sox and also to double to your point, he
4:01
Speaker 4: can sign with another if another job opens, he takes
4:05
Speaker 4: that job, he basically gets paid like Max Schurz. Or
4:08
Speaker 4: he can get paid from two different teams. It's not
4:10
Speaker 4: like a player where oh, we have to play you know,
4:12
Speaker 4: the old the new team has to pay the league
4:14
Speaker 4: minimum for the old guy's contract. He can actually double
4:17
Speaker 4: dip and get paid by two teams. This sounds like
4:20
Speaker 4: if he wasn't if he wasn't happy with the Red Sox,
4:23
Speaker 4: he's obviously happy now since he told everyone that that.
4:25
Speaker 4: I mean, if there's a chance even next year he
4:27
Speaker 4: could double down and get paid, you know, twelve thirteen
4:30
Speaker 4: million dollars, Hey sign me up, coach.
4:34
Speaker 5: Yeah.
4:34
Speaker 3: I also have to think that he would be a
4:36
Speaker 3: pretty attractive guy for you know, whether it's ONB Network
4:39
Speaker 3: or ESPN or somebody to bring him in, because he
4:41
Speaker 3: was very good at that when he was on ESPN
4:43
Speaker 3: before we got back into coaching with the Astros. So
4:47
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of options on the table
4:48
Speaker 3: for Alex and I think one of them could be
4:50
Speaker 3: just go back to Puerto Rico and enjoy hanging around
4:52
Speaker 3: with his family, coaches boys and baseball and have a
4:55
Speaker 3: good summer while he continues to jar a check from
4:57
Speaker 3: the Red Sox that that's probably could be something he
5:00
Speaker 3: definitely decides he wants to do. Because you know, they're
5:03
Speaker 3: building a new home in Puerto Rico, He's getting married
5:05
Speaker 3: in November. I'm sure that would be a very attractive
5:08
Speaker 3: option for him.
5:10
Speaker 2: Let's get into what you think the debates were about.
5:15
Speaker 2: Was there debate about offensive approach, was their debate about lineup?
5:19
Speaker 2: Was their debate about player development?
5:21
Speaker 1: What do you know?
5:23
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know that there was so much a
5:25
Speaker 3: debate about what was going on day to day. I
5:27
Speaker 3: think it was more Craig Breslow learning from what happened
5:29
Speaker 3: with High and Bloom that when a push came to
5:32
Speaker 3: shove when the team was not going well, ownership shows
5:35
Speaker 3: Alex Cora and they fired High in Bloom, and I
5:37
Speaker 3: think Craig Breslo wanted to get out in front of
5:39
Speaker 3: this and go to ownership and say my recommendation is
5:43
Speaker 3: we fire Alex Cora and all of the coaches that
5:45
Speaker 3: are in his camp and we start over again, and
5:48
Speaker 3: ownership took that recommendation, and Sam Kennedy said that on
5:51
Speaker 3: the record, you know, in the press conference yesterday, that
5:54
Speaker 3: it was Breslo's recommendation that they do this, and they
5:56
Speaker 3: took that recommendation. I think Craig was getting out ahead
5:59
Speaker 3: of it before Alex started talking more before and after
6:03
Speaker 3: games about how tough this lineup is to manage, how
6:05
Speaker 3: it's kind of been balanced. There's certain things he'd like
6:07
Speaker 3: to do that he doesn't have the opportunity to do.
6:09
Speaker 3: And then the public sentiment goes against Breslo, which happened
6:13
Speaker 3: with time Bloom, and it turns out to be the
6:16
Speaker 3: president of baseball operations who's out, not the manager. And
6:19
Speaker 3: Alex has survived every transition that the Red Sox have
6:22
Speaker 3: made since Dave Dobrowski left. And my thinking is Craig
6:25
Speaker 3: Breuzlow didn't want to be the next guy to fall
6:27
Speaker 3: victim to that.
6:30
Speaker 2: H What do you think of the way that this
6:35
Speaker 2: team has so frequently pulled the trigger quickly and the
6:40
Speaker 2: reputation that it continues to garner in terms of recruiting
6:43
Speaker 2: long term. I'm talking about front office, I'm talking about manager.
6:48
Speaker 2: And I'm looking back at the time when Craig Breslow
6:51
Speaker 2: is hired and they called nine million other people. I'm exaggerating,
6:54
Speaker 2: and they were like, nah, trying to be somewhere more
6:57
Speaker 2: than two years because if the Red Sox don't make
7:00
Speaker 2: the playoffs, they're going to fire him after the season.
7:02
Speaker 1: That's pretty obvious.
7:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they were getting turned down by everybody
7:07
Speaker 3: who could be a candidate for that job. It felt
7:09
Speaker 3: like before they hired Breslo, Derek Falby was one of
7:11
Speaker 3: those guys who turned them down. There are others too,
7:14
Speaker 3: and the Red Sox Baseball operations has become not a
7:18
Speaker 3: real fun place to work from what I understand, and
7:21
Speaker 3: other places have reported that too. There's a lot of tension.
7:24
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people who had been there for
7:26
Speaker 3: a long time who have left. There's been a lot
7:28
Speaker 3: of changes and roles under Craig Bruslo, a lot of
7:31
Speaker 3: talk that you know, there's a lot of inflexibility, there's
7:34
Speaker 3: not a lot of communication, so I don't you know,
7:36
Speaker 3: maybe somebody would come in and he's the white Knight,
7:38
Speaker 3: He's the guy who comes in and fixes everything. But
7:41
Speaker 3: Fenway Park is not what it used to be in
7:43
Speaker 3: terms of people loving to go there to work and
7:45
Speaker 3: everybody's happy and they're in the World Series every couple
7:48
Speaker 3: of years. It's it's been a tough place the last
7:50
Speaker 3: few years. A lot of people who have been there,
7:51
Speaker 3: not in baseball operations but in other departments too, have
7:55
Speaker 3: left who you never thought would leave, and it's just
7:57
Speaker 3: it's become a lot different around that club.
8:00
Speaker 5: But this new ownership came in and they'll say, well,
8:03
Speaker 5: we have four rings ever since we came in, so
8:05
Speaker 5: we're not doing it incorrectly when fans clap back, and
8:08
Speaker 5: they don't really have anything to clap back at because
8:11
Speaker 5: ownership hasn't I don't think they've spoken since the Mookie Bets.
8:16
Speaker 3: The day of the Mookie Bets trade. Yeah, there was
8:19
Speaker 3: a seven hundred and fifty words statement and then he
8:21
Speaker 3: took questions that we have not heard from John Henry since,
8:23
Speaker 3: so we don't know what he's thinking. We only get
8:27
Speaker 3: that through Sam Kennedy, and that's always you know, we're
8:30
Speaker 3: trying to win the championship for the great fans of Boston.
8:32
Speaker 3: So yeah, we don't know. That's really what it comes
8:35
Speaker 3: down to. And I don't know that we're ever going
8:37
Speaker 3: to He was in Baltimore yesterday while they were doing
8:40
Speaker 3: that press conference, and he could have very easily just
8:42
Speaker 3: walked in the room and taken questions, and he didn't
8:43
Speaker 3: do it.
8:45
Speaker 5: And is there a question that you would ask him
8:47
Speaker 5: if you ever got to ask a question?
8:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, I got a long list, but one
8:53
Speaker 3: of them would be, you know, do you still feel
8:55
Speaker 3: like you're year to year championship driven? Because there was
8:58
Speaker 3: a time where every year we have you know, we're
9:00
Speaker 3: going out to win the championship, We're gonna do what
9:02
Speaker 3: we have to do to try to win the World Series. Now,
9:04
Speaker 3: it didn't always work. They did a lot of things
9:06
Speaker 3: they regretted, you know, Pablo Sandabal, Hailey Ramirez, things like that,
9:09
Speaker 3: but they were always trying to do something to get
9:11
Speaker 3: into the World Series. And I don't know, you know,
9:14
Speaker 3: I don't know that last Winter was designed to get
9:16
Speaker 3: them into the World Series. They took some measures to
9:19
Speaker 3: improve the team, but they didn't take the large measures
9:21
Speaker 3: that they could have taken. So that would be my
9:23
Speaker 3: first question. Are you trying to win the Role Series
9:25
Speaker 3: every year or are you looking at this as we'll
9:27
Speaker 3: build something to try to win once every three or
9:30
Speaker 3: four years.
9:32
Speaker 2: Hey, Pete, I read somewhere that when they agreed to
9:37
Speaker 2: this three year deal with Cora, the Red Sox actually
9:39
Speaker 2: wanted five years. Do you know anything about that? And
9:42
Speaker 2: if that is the case, I have to imagine he'd
9:46
Speaker 2: still be here. It's one thing to eat a year
9:48
Speaker 2: and a half. The extra two years would be quite hefty.
9:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know.
9:54
Speaker 3: I don't know that it was necessarily either or, but
9:56
Speaker 3: there was some talk that it would be a longer extension,
9:59
Speaker 3: And since talked about, you know, he's not sure when
10:02
Speaker 3: his kids get to be, you know, ten years old
10:04
Speaker 3: and eleven years old, how easy is it going to
10:06
Speaker 3: be to be able to go back and forth from
10:08
Speaker 3: Puerto Rico to Boston. At some point they're going to
10:10
Speaker 3: have to pick a school and stay in that school
10:12
Speaker 3: the whole year long. So he was and we talked
10:15
Speaker 3: about this in spring training and I did a story
10:17
Speaker 3: about it, that he was going to have decisions to
10:19
Speaker 3: make at the end of this current contract. Had, you know,
10:22
Speaker 3: at the time, obviously believing he was going to be
10:24
Speaker 3: here about what to do with his family, because he
10:27
Speaker 3: really liked the idea of raising his sons in Puerto
10:30
Speaker 3: Rico like he was and he and but if he
10:33
Speaker 3: was going to continue to manage at some point they
10:35
Speaker 3: were going to be too old to do that. They
10:36
Speaker 3: were going to have to figure out what they were
10:37
Speaker 3: going to do with school. So that's why he didn't
10:39
Speaker 3: take the longer term contract before. But I don't know
10:43
Speaker 3: that it was, you know, either or I just think
10:45
Speaker 3: he was more comfortable with three years because of the
10:47
Speaker 3: family situation.
10:49
Speaker 2: Okay, well, Pete, thanks for jumping on with us quick,
10:52
Speaker 2: crazy crazy times. We'll see what happens here over the
10:56
Speaker 2: next I mean, I don't want to say week, but
10:58
Speaker 2: you know, a couple of months to see if the
11:00
Speaker 2: Red Sox get back on track and our playoff contender.
11:02
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us.
11:04
Speaker 3: Well, they added three coaches about twenty minutes ago, so
11:06
Speaker 3: there's always something going on.
11:08
Speaker 5: Who are they?
11:09
Speaker 1: Who'd they add? Wait before you go who they do?
11:11
Speaker 1: You know who they added?
11:12
Speaker 3: They named Jose Flores the bench coach, and they bought
11:15
Speaker 3: in three guys from the minor leagues want to be
11:17
Speaker 3: the first base coach, went to be a hitting coach,
11:19
Speaker 3: and another one to be an outfield instructor. So every
11:22
Speaker 3: day we're getting transactions that have nothing to do with
11:24
Speaker 3: players when you cover the Red Sox.
11:26
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you need name tags in late April in
11:29
Speaker 2: the clubhouse.
11:30
Speaker 3: Oh you bet, yeah, yeah we do.
11:32
Speaker 1: Who are you? Okay?
11:34
Speaker 2: That's great for the young team. We'll see how the
11:36
Speaker 2: experiment goes. Always a fun time. Thanks Pete.
11:40
Speaker 3: All right, thank you, fellows.
11:42
Speaker 5: We love our Dogabella, who's really just accounts cushion in
11:45
Speaker 5: our house.
11:46
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12:51
Speaker 1: Perfect Guy to talk to.
12:53
Speaker 2: Former GM of the Mets and a former assistant JM
12:56
Speaker 2: of the Red Sox worked in their front office, Zack
12:58
Speaker 2: Scott back on the show. Can follow him at Zack
13:01
Speaker 2: Scott's Sports for a lot more of what he puts
13:03
Speaker 2: out there. Zach, great to have you on here and
13:06
Speaker 2: just start in a nice blanket overview of what you
13:09
Speaker 2: saw from the Red Sox over the past forty eight hours.
13:12
Speaker 1: And if you think it was the right move.
13:16
Speaker 6: Well, you know, it's tough to see. I was part
13:19
Speaker 6: of the group with Dave Dombrowski that hired Alex and
13:24
Speaker 6: you know, and a lot of those coaches, so you know,
13:27
Speaker 6: I have personal ties to some of them, so you know,
13:29
Speaker 6: on a personal note, it's hard to see that I
13:31
Speaker 6: know what they're capable of doing. I know I've seen
13:36
Speaker 6: them work, I know that they're good at their jobs.
13:39
Speaker 6: But at the same time, I also understand where the
13:41
Speaker 6: organization is in some ways because I've been there, you know,
13:46
Speaker 6: and I don't know the particulars of this situation, but
13:49
Speaker 6: I do know, you know, how it can be when
13:51
Speaker 6: you're in a big market, which is where I've been
13:54
Speaker 6: my whole career, when when things aren't going well, and
13:56
Speaker 6: typically when you're you know, underperforming expectations to the magnitude
14:01
Speaker 6: that they are, a lot of things are going wrong,
14:04
Speaker 6: and it's really a risky time for emotional responses overreactions,
14:12
Speaker 6: and I think that's probably a big part of it.
14:16
Speaker 6: I think the other part is this pattern with Fenway
14:20
Speaker 6: Sports Group in Red Sox ownership, which is hiring people
14:26
Speaker 6: but not quite letting them hire their own people. And
14:30
Speaker 6: you know, in him Balloom came on. I talked to
14:32
Speaker 6: him about this recently. We were just catching up in
14:34
Speaker 6: spring training, and I told him, you know, I thought
14:36
Speaker 6: it was really unfair that when he got hired he
14:39
Speaker 6: had to keep people like me around who'd been there
14:41
Speaker 6: for a long time. He didn't have the flexibility to
14:45
Speaker 6: do what he wanted. I think there may have been
14:47
Speaker 6: you know, he never said this, but we rehired Alex.
14:50
Speaker 6: When he came in. We interviewed about ten different canis.
14:53
Speaker 6: We were to prepare to move on. But we ended
14:55
Speaker 6: up bringing Alex back, which people like myself were really
14:57
Speaker 6: happy about, and other people who were there that knew
15:00
Speaker 6: Alex and we're close to seeing how what a good
15:04
Speaker 6: job he did. But I think that relationship between the
15:08
Speaker 6: GM and the manager is crucial and so they you know,
15:10
Speaker 6: you see them signing Alex to multi year deal. I
15:13
Speaker 6: don't know if Craig how he felt about that, but
15:16
Speaker 6: there is this unique dynamic there where Alex is really
15:19
Speaker 6: close with a lot of people in that organization, including
15:22
Speaker 6: the CEO, including ownership, and you know, that can always
15:27
Speaker 6: lead to a tricky dynamic where it's not quite the
15:29
Speaker 6: guy you brought in, and maybe there wasn't a fit.
15:32
Speaker 6: I don't know, but I've seen that. You know, same
15:34
Speaker 6: ownership group did the same thing with the Pittsburgh Penguins.
15:37
Speaker 6: You know, they came in and gave Mike Sullivan, their
15:39
Speaker 6: head coach, a big contract extension while the GM was
15:42
Speaker 6: on a one year deal, and it just seemed, you know,
15:44
Speaker 6: I like Mike Sullivan. I've gotten to know him a
15:48
Speaker 6: little bit, and I think that's he's a great coach.
15:50
Speaker 6: But it's an odd dynamic that that ownership has kind
15:54
Speaker 6: of fed into multiple times. So I think it is
15:56
Speaker 6: a little bit of a pattern that when things aren't
15:59
Speaker 6: going well can sometimes cause problems because it's easy to say, well,
16:04
Speaker 6: you know, I didn't hire these this manager, these coaches,
16:07
Speaker 6: not saying that's what Craig's saying because I have no idea,
16:10
Speaker 6: but it just creates that dynamic. And obviously now that
16:13
Speaker 6: dynamics not no longer there, and you know, going forward,
16:16
Speaker 6: it's it's what baseball operations decisions are on who's going
16:19
Speaker 6: to lead that team now and beyond.
16:23
Speaker 4: Well, from what you're saying, do you think there was
16:25
Speaker 4: a rift between Craig and Alex and was this? Do
16:29
Speaker 4: we think this or you just think it was as
16:31
Speaker 4: simple as Craig didn't hire him. They were underperforming, so
16:34
Speaker 4: he wanted someone else, a different voice in there, because
16:38
Speaker 4: I mean, Alex likes people that say, you know, it's
16:40
Speaker 4: analytic versus a player. Alex core liked analytics. He embraced analytics,
16:45
Speaker 4: and he always was explaining. Every time I saw him,
16:48
Speaker 4: he would explain something analytically to me about when to
16:51
Speaker 4: bond and when to do this and when to do that.
16:53
Speaker 4: So I can't say that it's an analytic versus non
16:56
Speaker 4: analytic thing. But was there do you think there was
16:58
Speaker 4: just a rift between the two that they couldn't get passed.
17:01
Speaker 6: I really don't know, I mean to your point. I mean,
17:03
Speaker 6: I was a big part of the analytics department in Boston,
17:07
Speaker 6: building it and leading that group. And when Alex came
17:10
Speaker 6: on board before twenty eighteen, I mean, he and I
17:12
Speaker 6: connected right away. We talked, He reached out to me
17:15
Speaker 6: almost daily. We'd have a lot of really good conversations.
17:18
Speaker 6: He was, you know, coming from Houston, which was very
17:20
Speaker 6: analytics heavy, and he saw a lot of that work,
17:22
Speaker 6: so he was bought into it and really had a
17:24
Speaker 6: lot of thoughts and ideas on what he wanted to do.
17:26
Speaker 6: He had a vision, a pretty clear vision, and it
17:28
Speaker 6: was my job to help carry out that vision. So
17:32
Speaker 6: that's definitely not a problem. I have no idea if
17:35
Speaker 6: they if they had aff you know, when I've talked
17:37
Speaker 6: to Alex over the years, it's more just a friendly
17:39
Speaker 6: personal conversation. I don't I don't know, but there's been
17:42
Speaker 6: enough stuff that's kind of come out over the years
17:45
Speaker 6: of you know, you kind of read between the lines
17:47
Speaker 6: and you see, you know, the whole Bregman thing last
17:49
Speaker 6: year where you're reading things that I'm wondering, why am
17:52
Speaker 6: I seeing this out there that you know, the CEO
17:55
Speaker 6: and the manager want Bregman and Breslo and Baseball ops
17:59
Speaker 6: doesn't whether that's true or not, we have no idea,
18:02
Speaker 6: but the fact that it's even out there is a
18:05
Speaker 6: little odd and kind of speaks to maybe a potential disconnect.
18:09
Speaker 5: All right, you don't know if the decision was right
18:11
Speaker 5: or wrong. That's totally fine, you're not in there. Was
18:13
Speaker 5: it handled correctly based on what we're hearing from players
18:19
Speaker 5: now that are still have to play the rest of
18:21
Speaker 5: the games there how the front office is basically just
18:24
Speaker 5: said shut up and go play? Was that handled correctly?
18:29
Speaker 6: You know, I think that it's these issues are really touchy,
18:32
Speaker 6: I'd say, you know, I talked about on X yesterday
18:37
Speaker 6: how I went through a situation with the hitting coach
18:40
Speaker 6: at the Mets in twenty one where we made a
18:42
Speaker 6: change and I definitely didn't handle it perfectly. You know,
18:45
Speaker 6: I was not happy that players found out from you know,
18:48
Speaker 6: Twitter at the time, but I tried my best to
18:53
Speaker 6: make sure I tried to communicate before that happened. But
18:55
Speaker 6: it's hard to do that. The next day we had
18:57
Speaker 6: a meeting similar to what the Red Sox did at
18:59
Speaker 6: the hotel. We were on the road, and I talked about,
19:02
Speaker 6: you know, open it up by talking about my thought
19:05
Speaker 6: process behind why we made this change, why we thought
19:08
Speaker 6: it was important, and then gave them the floor, right,
19:12
Speaker 6: give them an opportunity to, hey, scream and yell at
19:14
Speaker 6: me if they want, ask questions. And I'm going to
19:17
Speaker 6: be as transparent as I can be. And you know,
19:20
Speaker 6: some of them might come away not satisfied with those answers,
19:24
Speaker 6: but I'm going to just give them the truth because
19:26
Speaker 6: I think we owe that to them because of you know,
19:28
Speaker 6: what they're going through. Do they should they be making
19:30
Speaker 6: the decision on those things? No, you know, I don't
19:33
Speaker 6: think any company in any business, you know, just surveys
19:37
Speaker 6: the employees that decide whether their boss should be in
19:40
Speaker 6: a job or not. But I think it's important to
19:44
Speaker 6: let them ask the questions, let them blow off some steam.
19:47
Speaker 6: You want to move forward faster, and you want to
19:49
Speaker 6: set the new guys coming in up for success. And
19:52
Speaker 6: so that's a hard thing. There's people are kind of
19:55
Speaker 6: grieving the loss of people, relationships or coaches, that they're
19:59
Speaker 6: close with and now having a transition to new guys,
20:01
Speaker 6: and it has nothing to do with those new guys.
20:02
Speaker 6: So I think that's part of the transition, is giving
20:05
Speaker 6: them that opportunity. And it does seem like maybe based
20:09
Speaker 6: on what the player said, they obviously they didn't feel
20:11
Speaker 6: like they had that opportunity, and I think that's probably
20:15
Speaker 6: a misstep. Although I'll say this, when that happened with
20:17
Speaker 6: the Mets, I got pushed back from above me. I mean,
20:20
Speaker 6: it wasn't like everyone was like, this is absolutely the
20:22
Speaker 6: thing you do. I believed strongly that transparency is an
20:26
Speaker 6: important thing, but there are other people that felt like, hey,
20:29
Speaker 6: you make this call, you don't need to solicit opinions
20:32
Speaker 6: on it. But I just felt like that was the
20:34
Speaker 6: right thing to do, given how close everyone is in
20:38
Speaker 6: a major league clubhouse, that lifestyle that they're all in together,
20:41
Speaker 6: traveling all the time. I mean, I think that was
20:43
Speaker 6: an important thing to do.
20:45
Speaker 5: What from your opinion, why would you think they would
20:47
Speaker 5: have handled it this way? What would have been like
20:49
Speaker 5: if you had fired the hitting coach like you said
20:52
Speaker 5: you did in twenty one and then said, don't anybody
20:55
Speaker 5: ask me any questions like I don't want to have
20:57
Speaker 5: this conversation with anybody. What would be the reasoning from
21:01
Speaker 5: a from a front office standpoint, what would be the
21:04
Speaker 5: reasoning to just completely cut off the players and say,
21:07
Speaker 5: don't worry about it, it's nothing, it's none of your business.
21:12
Speaker 6: Well, like I said, there were some internal debates about
21:15
Speaker 6: the approach I was going to take, and some of
21:17
Speaker 6: the feedback and that was, you know, you make a decision,
21:22
Speaker 6: you move forward as soon as possible, and you know,
21:25
Speaker 6: like I said, I thought this was a way to
21:26
Speaker 6: help us move forward because the whole goal is that
21:29
Speaker 6: we'd want to get on the right track towards winning.
21:31
Speaker 6: And you know, I think people some people think that
21:35
Speaker 6: you know it just you make the decision, it's more
21:37
Speaker 6: firm and you move on and you don't need to
21:40
Speaker 6: keep talking about it. I guess that's why.
21:43
Speaker 5: I mean.
21:43
Speaker 6: The way I've looked at it over the years is
21:47
Speaker 6: I feel like each generation gets a little bit more
21:49
Speaker 6: curious and wants to know the why behind things, and
21:52
Speaker 6: I'm totally fine with that. And so the more curious
21:56
Speaker 6: players are, the more they want to know why we're
21:57
Speaker 6: doing this, why we're doing that. You know, to me,
21:59
Speaker 6: my approach is accept that reality that people want to
22:01
Speaker 6: know and they feel like they have the right to know,
22:04
Speaker 6: and in a lot of cases they do. Let's just
22:06
Speaker 6: be an open book about it, because I think that's
22:08
Speaker 6: the only way we're going to accomplish what we want
22:10
Speaker 6: to accomplish, and we all want to accomplish the same thing,
22:13
Speaker 6: So the only way to really get their in my mind,
22:16
Speaker 6: is just to be very open and transparent and to
22:19
Speaker 6: have frequent touch points of communication.
22:23
Speaker 4: Zach Eric said something about the drive linification has a
22:27
Speaker 4: begun of the Red Sox. What does that mean? And
22:29
Speaker 4: also why did all the pitching people get to stay right?
22:32
Speaker 4: I mean, I get it. I was just looking at
22:34
Speaker 4: the numbers. Red Sox are twenty seventh in the league
22:36
Speaker 4: in ops. Okay, you can make an argument they're not hitting.
22:39
Speaker 4: This team was never really in the offseason meant to hit.
22:43
Speaker 4: Everyone said they don't have enough offense, they don't have
22:45
Speaker 4: enough offense, they don't have enough offense. But then you
22:47
Speaker 4: go to the pitching their twentieth an era twenty first
22:50
Speaker 4: in strikeouts in the league. How come Andrew Bailey? And
22:54
Speaker 4: this is not knock on Andrew Bailey. So I'm not
22:56
Speaker 4: taking a shot and Andrew Bailey. But Andrew Bailey and
22:59
Speaker 4: the pitching guys all and then all the hitting guys
23:02
Speaker 4: basically were let go even though the hitting I guess
23:06
Speaker 4: the drive the drive line hitting guy who was the
23:07
Speaker 4: guy who got to stay right?
23:08
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, So you know.
23:10
Speaker 4: What, what what do you make of that? And then
23:12
Speaker 4: what would drive lineification of an organization? What does that mean?
23:16
Speaker 1: Well?
23:17
Speaker 6: I think let's first I'll talk about the Red Sox
23:19
Speaker 6: and they're pitching. I mean, actually, if you look kind
23:21
Speaker 6: of dig deeper underneath those surface numbers, they're actually worse
23:26
Speaker 6: in a lot of ways. So it's amost like they've
23:27
Speaker 6: had good fortune. They've actually had some pretty good defense.
23:29
Speaker 6: I know there've been some bad plays on defense, but
23:32
Speaker 6: there's certain guys on that team that actually can go
23:34
Speaker 6: get it and so that's probably helped them a little bit.
23:36
Speaker 6: But there's a chance that they actually should have had
23:39
Speaker 6: worse results than what you're saying at twentieth maybe be
23:41
Speaker 6: more like bottom four. So I think that kind of
23:45
Speaker 6: speaks Again, I don't know, but if I'm looking at
23:48
Speaker 6: it from the outside looking in, which I am, it
23:51
Speaker 6: does speak to what I was talking about at the top,
23:53
Speaker 6: which is it's important. A lot of times it's important
23:56
Speaker 6: for the person leading base of operations to feel like
23:59
Speaker 6: they have there are people in place, and I believe
24:03
Speaker 6: the people that were that stayed were the people that
24:05
Speaker 6: Craig hired and not necessarily the people that were there
24:07
Speaker 6: before him, and so that kind of indicates that that's
24:11
Speaker 6: probably there's probably something there that has to do with
24:14
Speaker 6: then obviously he and Andrew, you know, I think it's
24:16
Speaker 6: pretty well documented have a close relationship and you know,
24:20
Speaker 6: so I think that's that's probably part of it. That's
24:23
Speaker 6: what it says to me looking at it from a distance.
24:26
Speaker 6: As far as drive Line goes, I have a ton
24:28
Speaker 6: of respect for what they do at drive Line, and
24:31
Speaker 6: I have no problem with in general. Obviously, like I
24:34
Speaker 6: said before, I have largely an analytics background, helped build
24:38
Speaker 6: multiple analytics groups in Boston and in New York, and
24:42
Speaker 6: I believe a lot in that and information and trying
24:44
Speaker 6: to get the you know, understand the game the best
24:47
Speaker 6: we can do. Your I always viewed as we're trying
24:49
Speaker 6: to understand the truth of what's really happening, and any
24:52
Speaker 6: pieces of information can help us do that. But there
24:55
Speaker 6: are parts that are you know, quantifiable, and then there
24:58
Speaker 6: are things that are not quantifiable, and you know, we
25:00
Speaker 6: cannot forget as we become more tech focused and innovation focused,
25:07
Speaker 6: we can't lose sight of the fact that, you know,
25:09
Speaker 6: we're human beings. Even if you're looking at as like
25:11
Speaker 6: a pure cold businessman and saying, you know, we have
25:14
Speaker 6: this product that we're trying to get to be good
25:16
Speaker 6: and sell this product, Well, the product are human beings.
25:19
Speaker 6: They're not. You know, if you're looking at things probabilistically,
25:22
Speaker 6: it's not a deck of cards. It's not clear results.
25:25
Speaker 6: There's going to vary because they're human beings and they
25:27
Speaker 6: need to come together as a group. There's a lot
25:30
Speaker 6: of human dynamics that come into play, and I've seen
25:34
Speaker 6: that over and over again with teams that underperformed overperformed.
25:38
Speaker 6: That fluctuates. It's not just as a result of performance.
25:42
Speaker 6: That could be some of it, but it's also a
25:44
Speaker 6: result of kind of what's going on behind the scenes. So,
25:47
Speaker 6: you know, drive line, I think they they're probably being
25:50
Speaker 6: used as a catch all when you say something like
25:52
Speaker 6: that that it's all about just the tech side of things. Again,
25:56
Speaker 6: I think they do something well, you know, you mentioned
25:58
Speaker 6: the red sox Colin Hensler. You know, we had a
26:00
Speaker 6: at the Mets. It wasn't like we weren't hiring people
26:02
Speaker 6: from that background. We valued He's a very talented guy. So,
26:08
Speaker 6: you know, it's it doesn't have to be one or
26:10
Speaker 6: the other. It needs to be both. It needs to
26:12
Speaker 6: be We're going to do as much as we can
26:14
Speaker 6: to quantify things and learn as much as we can
26:16
Speaker 6: and take out as much of the gray as we
26:19
Speaker 6: can to understand the truth of what's really going on.
26:21
Speaker 6: But we cannot forget these are human beings. We can't
26:24
Speaker 6: become too clinical in the game because it's played by people.
26:27
Speaker 6: People learn in different ways, even you know, if you're
26:29
Speaker 6: just looking at it as getting people to learn different
26:32
Speaker 6: techniques of you know, hitting, coaching principles, figuring out how
26:38
Speaker 6: to connect. Each individual learns differently, each individual communicates differently.
26:42
Speaker 6: Your coaches need to be able to do that and
26:45
Speaker 6: do that well. And so that's a key part of it,
26:47
Speaker 6: and that just can't be forgotten. And I think sometimes
26:49
Speaker 6: that gets forgotten in this game.
26:53
Speaker 2: Todd Father, it's getting a little warm out. That means
26:56
Speaker 2: let's hit some concerts, let's hit some baseball games, And
27:00
Speaker 2: where am I going to go to find those tickets,
27:01
Speaker 2: and if you want to sing the answer, you can.
27:03
Speaker 7: We're going to see gee, hey, hey, listen. Ultimately, at
27:07
Speaker 7: the end of the day it is getting warmer and
27:09
Speaker 7: people want to leave the house and it's time to leave,
27:11
Speaker 7: go see a ball game. I guess where you can
27:13
Speaker 7: find the best tickets, best spots, best places to go.
27:17
Speaker 7: Seat Geeks got it all, man. They got their red
27:19
Speaker 7: and their green signs letting you know which good in bed,
27:22
Speaker 7: all that good kind of stuff. They make it really
27:24
Speaker 7: simple for you at the end of the day. For
27:26
Speaker 7: a guy like me who's running around, I just need
27:28
Speaker 7: five minute thing. Bang bom, I got my seat.
27:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:31
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27:33
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Speaker 2: you to seed Geek, MLB's official ticket marketplace. Zach let's
27:56
Speaker 2: move to the match. You mentioned them. You used to
27:58
Speaker 2: run the front office there. What do you think is
28:01
Speaker 2: going through that front office right now when they make
28:04
Speaker 2: such drastic changes in the offseason, and clearly so far
28:07
Speaker 2: it's not working. It's not working so much that it
28:09
Speaker 2: could cost them their season this early in the season.
28:12
Speaker 1: It's a very competitive National League.
28:14
Speaker 2: I have a feeling they're probably going to use Carlos
28:16
Speaker 2: Mendoza as the scapegoat. I mean, they just hired a
28:18
Speaker 2: new coaching staff. You can't fire the players. They just
28:21
Speaker 2: brought a lot of them on what do you think
28:23
Speaker 2: is happening? And what do you see happening? Like what
28:26
Speaker 2: are they saying internally? And then what do you think
28:29
Speaker 2: is going to happen for them to try and light
28:31
Speaker 2: a spark?
28:33
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I feel for them, is my reaction.
28:35
Speaker 6: I feel for David Stearns because I know how stressful
28:39
Speaker 6: these times can be. We've had really bad times in
28:42
Speaker 6: my career in Boston and you know, we had a
28:44
Speaker 6: tough stretch in the second half of the season when
28:46
Speaker 6: I was with the Mets, and it can be really challenging,
28:50
Speaker 6: and I know there's it also brings welcomes a lot
28:52
Speaker 6: of noise from the outside or from you know, ownership,
28:56
Speaker 6: asking you questions about, you know, what are we going
28:58
Speaker 6: to do today? You know, it's an every day thing
29:00
Speaker 6: of how are we going to fix this? We have
29:02
Speaker 6: to do something, And I think a lot of times
29:04
Speaker 6: you're trying to avoid being reactionary. You're trying to avoid
29:08
Speaker 6: that trap of we have to do something, so you
29:10
Speaker 6: just do something for the sake of doing it, rather
29:13
Speaker 6: than having a plan of what will actually make us better.
29:17
Speaker 6: And I think that's the challenge every GM has when
29:19
Speaker 6: they're in that situation. So I'm sure it's a stressful
29:22
Speaker 6: time internally, you know. I don't Again, I don't really
29:26
Speaker 6: know what's going on there internally, but I would imagine
29:30
Speaker 6: there's a lot of stress and a lot of time
29:32
Speaker 6: being spent trying to figure out and diagnose what's going
29:35
Speaker 6: wrong and how can we fix it?
29:38
Speaker 4: All right, So, how do you know? How do you
29:40
Speaker 4: know when it's time? You said you fired the coaches
29:43
Speaker 4: in twenty one? How do you know when it's time
29:44
Speaker 4: to fire coaches or managers? What's the Is there a clue,
29:48
Speaker 4: is there a tip, Is there a point, Is there
29:50
Speaker 4: something that happens or is it just a field based
29:53
Speaker 4: thing and you say, okay, this could work today.
29:58
Speaker 6: Honestly, in my experien sperience, when that happens in season,
30:03
Speaker 6: it's just a lot of times it's thrown stuff against
30:06
Speaker 6: the wall. I don't actually this may sound surprising because
30:09
Speaker 6: I did fire two hitting coaches in that year, but
30:11
Speaker 6: I don't actually think it's that effective to fire coaches
30:14
Speaker 6: in the middle of a season. I think it's much
30:17
Speaker 6: more effective to do that in the off season, to
30:20
Speaker 6: have a process to evaluate things properly, to have time
30:26
Speaker 6: to evaluate things properly, and to have a real process
30:29
Speaker 6: in bringing replace its. Now, if you feel like you
30:32
Speaker 6: have really good people ready to step in and do
30:34
Speaker 6: a great job, then it's a little bit of a
30:36
Speaker 6: different equation and you can feel like, you know, this
30:39
Speaker 6: guy's ready to go, he's probably gonna be our next
30:41
Speaker 6: guy or whatever it may be. And that could make sense.
30:46
Speaker 6: But a lot of times I believe these decisions are
30:50
Speaker 6: made really without enough focus on the alternatives and what
30:55
Speaker 6: whether there would actually be real impact, because realistically, it's
30:59
Speaker 6: hard to transition coaches in the middle of a season,
31:02
Speaker 6: and those relationships take time to build, and you know
31:05
Speaker 6: how they can have an impact. It can be hard,
31:07
Speaker 6: but there are also times where if it's toxic in
31:10
Speaker 6: a clubhouse, that's when a change makes sense because you
31:14
Speaker 6: just want to, you know, try to just get away
31:17
Speaker 6: from the toxicity. And I think I've seen that more,
31:20
Speaker 6: not in season, but you know, there is I've seen
31:23
Speaker 6: real changes in clubhouses going from a really tough situation
31:27
Speaker 6: or bad situation to even a neutral one. It just
31:31
Speaker 6: feels so much better and people. It frees people up
31:33
Speaker 6: to focus on what they're doing. So you know, if
31:36
Speaker 6: that exists, then maybe that's the time to do it
31:39
Speaker 6: as soon as possible.
31:41
Speaker 5: Are you saying do you feel like the Mets have
31:44
Speaker 5: a toxic situation or are you're just saying just in general?
31:47
Speaker 6: I'm talking in general. I actually so, I like Mendy
31:52
Speaker 6: a lot. I've talked to him several times in the past.
31:55
Speaker 6: We interviewed him in Boston. He was a finalist before
31:57
Speaker 6: we brought Alex back. So I'm I'm a fan of his, so,
32:03
Speaker 6: you know, and I say that because of his demeanor,
32:06
Speaker 6: because of the way he communicates with people. And I
32:09
Speaker 6: have no idea how that's going in New York from
32:12
Speaker 6: other people's perspectives, but no I'm not saying that there's
32:15
Speaker 6: a toxic club house there and there. There doesn't seem
32:17
Speaker 6: to be anything coming out like that. That's you know,
32:19
Speaker 6: like I said before, in Boston, there were some things
32:21
Speaker 6: kind of coming out that made me look a little
32:23
Speaker 6: sideways at what I was reading. But I haven't really
32:25
Speaker 6: seen that as much with New York. I think it's
32:28
Speaker 6: just players aren't performing and it's hard to figure out
32:32
Speaker 6: why some of them. You know, Boston may have this too,
32:34
Speaker 6: where you have a lot of some young players that
32:37
Speaker 6: haven't established themselves and you're trying to figure out what
32:39
Speaker 6: are they going to be. Maybe some of them will
32:42
Speaker 6: be a lot better than this, Maybe some of them
32:44
Speaker 6: just weren't as good as maybe you thought. So it's
32:46
Speaker 6: always hard to figure that out. But no, I'm not
32:48
Speaker 6: saying that about the Mets at all.
32:50
Speaker 5: Is it possible to just stick with who you got
32:53
Speaker 5: or and not listen to the national or even local
32:57
Speaker 5: media when you're talking about being in New York, like,
32:59
Speaker 5: just stick with it. As Charlie Manuel always says, water
33:04
Speaker 5: levels out. These are good players, they should get better.
33:08
Speaker 5: So ultimately, if you're sticking with it, or is that
33:10
Speaker 5: just not possible? As your seat as a GM or
33:14
Speaker 5: assistant GYM. Is that just not possible or else somebody's
33:17
Speaker 5: gonna come to you and be like, well you're fired
33:19
Speaker 5: for sticking with it so long, and so you're saving
33:22
Speaker 5: your job.
33:23
Speaker 6: Well yeah, I mean it depends on what the dynamic
33:25
Speaker 6: is above, right, Like if I don't think most gms
33:29
Speaker 6: that I know, most people in the game, they're not
33:32
Speaker 6: paying attention to the noise when it comes to like
33:35
Speaker 6: you know, sports media and fans, but it does impact
33:39
Speaker 6: you when it starts creeping into the building, right, whether
33:42
Speaker 6: that's your owner or you know, seeing you know, c
33:46
Speaker 6: suite leadership, in the business side, whatever it may be.
33:49
Speaker 6: It could be in the clubhouse. Even so, if it's
33:51
Speaker 6: seeping in, it doesn't matter. You can't control, but it's
33:53
Speaker 6: seeping in at all, it could be a problem. And
33:58
Speaker 6: you know, I think but like a, I don't think
34:00
Speaker 6: most gms are making decisions stuff of that, but their
34:02
Speaker 6: lives can be affected by it. Because the way I
34:05
Speaker 6: always looked at this is the farther away from the
34:07
Speaker 6: field you are, the more the less control you feel
34:10
Speaker 6: like you have, which is true and you know, meaning
34:13
Speaker 6: like the fans are the farthest away from the field,
34:14
Speaker 6: but so's but the owners probably right there. The GM's
34:18
Speaker 6: a little closer, the managers closer than the players are obviously,
34:20
Speaker 6: and the perspective gets that. That's when emotion can lead
34:24
Speaker 6: decision making because you feel like I don't have control this.
34:27
Speaker 6: It's frustrating. I just need to make a change, And
34:30
Speaker 6: I think the key is to is to ride the wave.
34:34
Speaker 6: Sometimes it's a roller coaster, and if you're living day
34:36
Speaker 6: by day, it can be hard. Hey, those teams were
34:38
Speaker 6: talking about had terrible have had terrible aprils, but it's April.
34:42
Speaker 6: It's not unprecedented for teams to start playing better than that.
34:45
Speaker 6: I think, you know, the people that built the roster
34:47
Speaker 6: up to look themselves in the eyes and say, you know,
34:50
Speaker 6: did we build a good enough roster. Maybe it's too
34:52
Speaker 6: early to tell on some players, but that's always part
34:55
Speaker 6: of it. And I would do the same thing if
34:56
Speaker 6: I'm in there in their seats. But you know that,
35:00
Speaker 6: I think yes, sticking with it is definitely an option,
35:03
Speaker 6: and probably most of the time, with the exception being
35:06
Speaker 6: what I was talking about before, a really untenable, toxic situation,
35:11
Speaker 6: is to stick with what you're doing.
35:14
Speaker 4: Okay, Zach, we two quick things and what you just said. One,
35:17
Speaker 4: the Mets already got rid of all their coaches they
35:18
Speaker 4: did in the off season. I mean they changed them all.
35:21
Speaker 4: So then I guess the next step would be mendy
35:23
Speaker 4: because David Sears isn't firing himself. And then the second
35:26
Speaker 4: thing is what you said about Jeez, it just blinked
35:30
Speaker 4: on me. Uh you said something about uh for answer
35:35
Speaker 4: that and.
35:35
Speaker 5: I'll get you the second question. But it was about
35:37
Speaker 5: something you just said.
35:38
Speaker 4: Sorry, I forgot.
35:40
Speaker 6: So for Yeah, I mean when you fire the whole
35:44
Speaker 6: coaching staff, which quite honestly, to me, again no knowledge
35:49
Speaker 6: outside looking in, when you fire that many people, and
35:52
Speaker 6: a lot of good people, I know, again I'm biased.
35:54
Speaker 6: I know some of those guys. I worked with some
35:56
Speaker 6: of those guys. I think they think very highly of
35:59
Speaker 6: them and think some of them are doing a great
36:00
Speaker 6: job in their new places. You know, to me, I
36:04
Speaker 6: got the sense that if they want a couple more games,
36:07
Speaker 6: that a lot of those guys would not be fired.
36:09
Speaker 6: And so you know, what does that tell you, if
36:12
Speaker 6: that's true, is that there's other dynamics. There's emotion involved.
36:16
Speaker 6: It's just making change for change sake. A lot of times,
36:19
Speaker 6: and maybe that's the manager. He didn't hire those coaches,
36:22
Speaker 6: So maybe it's that. I don't know, but yeah, I
36:24
Speaker 6: think that is the dynamic that often you see, which
36:27
Speaker 6: I think is unfortunate. Is all right, we're gonna bullseye
36:30
Speaker 6: goes on the coaches backs. Once you take care of that,
36:33
Speaker 6: it goes to the manager's back, and then if you
36:37
Speaker 6: fire the manager, it goes to the GM's back. I mean,
36:39
Speaker 6: it seems to be this thing where you know, you
36:42
Speaker 6: fire a manager, it's like your GM, you get like
36:44
Speaker 6: a year or two to kind of prove yourself or
36:46
Speaker 6: else your next. So I do think a lot of
36:49
Speaker 6: this is related to the dynamics of how how the
36:54
Speaker 6: power structure works in baseball, and a big issue being
36:58
Speaker 6: a lack of job security can lead to a lot
37:01
Speaker 6: of emotions or quick decisions, reactionary decisions.
37:06
Speaker 4: Okay, And then I remember what I was saying. You
37:07
Speaker 4: mentioned about control. Right as you get farther away, the
37:10
Speaker 4: less control you have, Well, then, isn't it. Isn't this
37:14
Speaker 4: a trend we've been seeing where gms want managers they
37:16
Speaker 4: can control, and they can tell what to do, and
37:19
Speaker 4: they can say, hey, you've never you're just happy to
37:23
Speaker 4: be a big league manager and then I can tell
37:25
Speaker 4: you to make the lineup and when to make pitching
37:28
Speaker 4: changes and when did do And I know every manager says, oh,
37:31
Speaker 4: I make the lineup and we just have meetings about it.
37:34
Speaker 4: But how much control, then, really does a GM have
37:38
Speaker 4: over their manager, Because I would feel like someone like
37:40
Speaker 4: Alex Cora would fight back a little bit, right. I
37:43
Speaker 4: feel like, you know, the more tenured longer and the
37:46
Speaker 4: tooth managers have a little more Hey, I screw you.
37:48
Speaker 4: I want to do a B and C. And then
37:50
Speaker 4: if they bring in a new GM that wasn't that
37:52
Speaker 4: didn't hire them. I Craig Breslo and he says, Alex,
37:56
Speaker 4: I want you to do a B and C lineup construction.
37:59
Speaker 4: And Alex is like, it's not going to work. We're
38:00
Speaker 4: like doing it this, we've been here longer. Wouldn't that
38:03
Speaker 4: be more of a control thing than just a in
38:06
Speaker 4: house fighting thing.
38:08
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean if that's what's what's going on,
38:10
Speaker 6: that's a challenging dynamic, right, Like if you see things
38:14
Speaker 6: differently on how you're you know, using your players and
38:18
Speaker 6: putting them out there, whether it's the lineup or how
38:20
Speaker 6: you're managing your bullpen. If you're if you're seeing that
38:23
Speaker 6: very different from your manager, then that could Yeah, it
38:27
Speaker 6: could be a problem because if that keeps happening and
38:29
Speaker 6: you and you as a GM feel like, well, this
38:31
Speaker 6: is making our team worse, then yeah, that's going to
38:34
Speaker 6: lead to butting heads and that might lead to a change,
38:36
Speaker 6: which I think ties back to you know, hiring your
38:40
Speaker 6: own guy, right is like the idea is you're hiring
38:43
Speaker 6: someone that you feel alignment with or you feel that
38:46
Speaker 6: you're going to be on the same page. You never
38:47
Speaker 6: really know until you start working together. But you know,
38:50
Speaker 6: I can say I've never experienced working with a manager
38:55
Speaker 6: where we were shoving things down their throat from the
38:59
Speaker 6: front end. Now, we were having conversations, and I think
39:01
Speaker 6: at times they probably felt that way. But some of
39:05
Speaker 6: the narratives that are out there about making out lineups
39:08
Speaker 6: or you know, talking dissecting every little thing, you know,
39:12
Speaker 6: I think it's good to talk about some stuff occasionally
39:15
Speaker 6: because you want to understand their thinking. You're trying to
39:17
Speaker 6: learn about how they think through these things and maybe
39:19
Speaker 6: help Like most like I said at the top, we
39:22
Speaker 6: all want the same thing.
39:23
Speaker 1: We all want to win.
39:24
Speaker 6: So the perspective that I always came from was how
39:27
Speaker 6: can I support the staff and help them? And that
39:30
Speaker 6: could be that we're providing them certain types of information
39:33
Speaker 6: that may be more useful for them, will help them
39:36
Speaker 6: make decisions when the game's really fast, right, it could,
39:38
Speaker 6: but you know, I think you've got to be on
39:41
Speaker 6: the same page of that. And I think what I
39:42
Speaker 6: see in the game a lot is, you know, experience
39:44
Speaker 6: has become a little bit undervalued in a lot of
39:47
Speaker 6: areas of baseball, and I think part of that is
39:50
Speaker 6: not control. Maybe it is. I think it's more people
39:55
Speaker 6: want loyalty in alignment as quickly as possible, so rather
40:00
Speaker 6: then you know, have to kind of come at this
40:03
Speaker 6: from very different experiences and maybe disagree on a lot
40:08
Speaker 6: more that you have people that are kind of like,
40:10
Speaker 6: we're going to be a line from the beginning, and
40:12
Speaker 6: that'll make things a lot easier for us to move forward.
40:17
Speaker 1: That good stuff.
40:19
Speaker 2: Thanks for jumping on with us, obviously super relevant with
40:21
Speaker 2: your past experience here and for everyone listening at ZAX.
40:25
Speaker 1: Scott Sports for some of the tweet teams alluding to.
40:27
Speaker 2: As well, and he works with coaches and execs and
40:30
Speaker 2: the whole deal Zach, good catching up with you man.
40:32
Speaker 6: Thank you, Thanks guys, thanks for having me