Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / #65 - Go Beyond Racing Announces a New Sub-Ultra Race in Portland

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#65 - Go Beyond Racing Announces a New Sub-Ultra Race in Portland · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, fam?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today I've got a special presentation to the pot I'm so excited to bring you guys.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I just had a conversation with Renee and Todd who run the Go Beyond Racing in the Pacific Northwest.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: It was a really fun conversation.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We got to talk all about some of their races.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: We talked about their Volcanic 50K and 25K, which you guys might be very familiar with, as well as logistics of what it's like to put on a 200 mile race like the Oregon 200 that they have, and a few others.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Most importantly, we had this conversation because they are launching a new sub ultra race that's going to be taking place this May.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: It's called the Fire Lane Trail Trial.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: It's a pretty steep and actually steep and technical steep and super fast sub ultra race.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: That's like a time trial that they're going to be in groups of 10.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: That's going to be taking place in the Portland metro area.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Like I said, it's called the Fire Lane Trail Trial.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: It's going to be taking place this upcoming May and we talked all about it.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: This was a kind of a one-off fun episode.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I really love more than anything to get to follow the sport and I love talking about new races, um, and I really appreciate go beyond for uh moving the sport forward with uh, a new event they're gonna be putting on in our sub ultra category.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoyed this one.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: It was a great conversation.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Like said, we talked all about different aspects of race directing, what it's like for permitting at, like, the Volcanic 50k, which takes place at a national monument.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: We talked about all kinds of really cool stuff.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So I really want to thank Todd and Renee so much for coming on and I wish them the best of the luck with their new race.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys enjoy it's time.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, we are live.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: People earth, listen up.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: The Steep Stuff Podcast is brought to you by Ultimate Direction USA.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to be partnering with Ultimate Direction in 2025 as the official hydration solutions partner for the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Lots of fun things coming down the pike for this year.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Ultimate direction is going to be unveiling a brand new race and ultra vast that's going to be dropping in the next couple of months.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: So excited to bring that to you guys.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: If you are in the market right now for apparel, for a belt, for a new pack, anything hydration solutions related flasks, um, you name it, they've got it.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: They've got you covered.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: If you hop on to ultimate directioncom and use code steep stuff pod that's one word.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Steep S, T, E P stuff, S T U F F pod.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: If you hop on to ultimate directioncom and use that code, that's going to get you 25% off your car, especially that we're starting to wind our way a little bit more closer to spring.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: You guys are going to be start start to put together your race calendars and, uh, yeah, ultimate direction is going to have you guys covered.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: So, whatever you need, they've got you outfitted from head almost a toe.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: They don't do shoes yet.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: So, guys, enjoy yourself.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Have a great rest of your week.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much and uh, ultimate direction.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, Renee and Todd, how's it going?
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Very good Thank you Good, good, welcome to the steep stuff podcast.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Um, for those of the audience, uh, that might not be familiar with you guys, you guys operate and manage.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Go beyond racing, correct?
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: Yep, that is correct.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome Well how's your guys' day going?
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: How's uh?
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: How's your Monday?
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: It's good.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: We had a few snow flurries out the window this morning.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: I don't even know if you saw those, so that was exciting, nice.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Where are you guys located?
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: We're in Portland.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: You are in Portland, Nice.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I love Portland, Fun town.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in Colorado Springs and it's a 65, 66 degree day.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: It's so strangely warm.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Today I was outside.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: I should have taken off work today.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I was like man what am I doing?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Why am I working from home?
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Not fun.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: So yeah, that was interesting.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: So, guys, I'll let you introduce yourselves, talk a little bit about Go Beyond and we can kind of get into kind of the nuts and bolts of the conversation after that Sounds great Go ahead.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Sure, Uh, well, uh, we're.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: We are go beyond Todd and Renee.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Uh, we are the owners and operators of go beyond racing.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Uh, we're a small uh company here in Portland that produces trail races all around the Pacific Northwest, in all over Oregon, and we have a couple in Washington state as well.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: They range from our shortest being a four mile course and our longest.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: Technically, the shortest is a mile.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay, well, yeah, and we can talk about that.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, technically, you're right, I never thought about that way.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: So a mile and our and our longest is 200 miles.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: We've put on the Oregon 200.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: That's our longest distance, but we've got everything in between a bunch of 50 Ks, 50 milers, a hundred miler, uh, half marathons.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: 25 Ks kind of runs the gamut.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: The whole, the whole shebang.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: It's funny, I funny.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I found out about you guys years ago when I started getting into the racing scene and I still want to do it Every year.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: I put it on my calendar, I just need to figure out how to fit it in is Volcanic 50K, which is, I think and for those who've never heard of it, in my honest to God opinion it is one of the coolest races in the country, if not world.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's not too many races like that.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: That's a perfect 50k distance that circumnavigates a volcano, um, and it's just so many beautiful but like the backdrop is so beautiful and it's a highly competitive race like you guys get always get a deep field, um.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I heard about you guys through that, and then nar nar, which was a great race back in the day um that's been the host of the U?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: S mountain running championships in the past.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I think it was a U S mountain yeah.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: It was a U S ATF championship race.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: What was that?
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: 2020, 21, 2020.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: It's been a few years.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: So your Joe gray one, I think.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, some great it's.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: It's just a good to kind of conversate and get to network with you guys, because you put on some amazing races.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: Volcanic is pretty epic.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: There is nothing like it to be able to go all the way around a volcano like that One.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: That there are no roads.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: You can't get to any part of the course by road.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: You have to be there on foot, including all the volunteers.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk maybe logistics about that race, just because it is so interesting and unique.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: It is so remote and so out there that I can imagine even if getting water is difficult.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: I remember I've run the Lewitt Trail once now and I remember being on the backside trying to use a filter flask to get water out of some silty stream that was in the blast zone.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: I was like this is this, is rough.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: It is the best way to go around the mountain during the race.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Well, you've got eight stations there.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's uh, it's, it's one of the.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: Well, it's probably the only race that we have where we have to have an event the week before.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: To facilitate this one, we get a bunch of volunteers the week before and have a little bit of a competition to see who can carry the most amount of water up to the aid stations.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: We have them out for the weekend, make a bunch of food, try to make it fun for everybody and make a contest out of it, and then whoever does the most is able to get a free entry to Volcanic the next year.
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we carry all the water that's on the course, except for the third aid station, which is at a spring, which many people think is the maybe the best water in the world.
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: Certainly, during the race you're going to think that, but the rest of the water is either carried up or filtered, uh, on site.
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: So four and a half five mile hike up to the aid stations to take everything up there.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's amazing.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: You know, shout out to the volunteers that are able to you know to participate in that.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: That's a, that's a huge undertaking.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, just to put something like that together has it?
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Is it harder to do that or is it way more complex to put on like a 200 mile race or like the oregon, the oregon race that you guys do?
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: that's a good question.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: Um, it's hard to argue that the the 200 isn't the hardest to put on, just because of the logistics and the amount of time that you're out there and the number of people, and not just volunteers but ham radio operators and medical folks and all of that.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: So and it takes place over five days.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: The volcanic is really a it's a two week event and so there's organization is a little different.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: It's just the amount of effort on the part of volunteers is pretty amazing.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: For them to not only take all the water and the drinks and um tents and gear up, but, um, you know, get up there on race day early, early in the morning.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: They're meeting us at 4 am at the start finish to get all their gear and and, uh, carry stuff start hiking up and then they're there all day and back.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: So, um, it's a little different.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Oregon 200 is probably overall harder to to put on, but, um, yeah, I mean it's just a it's.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: It's a different beast.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: That's a whole nother ball game.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine that there's so much that goes into that like just a logistical situation.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Dear Lord, it's interesting too to see, um, you know, like I, I'm a little bit different because not only do I cover sub ultra, I race mostly sub ultra races.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting to see all of these like I think Arizona now has like a 300 mile race and like all of these like crazy.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: you know multiple hundred mile races popping up all over the country.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: It's interesting.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: It's a cool subsect of our sport that it's going to be interesting to see it grow over the next few years and it's getting a lot of popularity too, which is cool.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely a different thing, for sure.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask you guys this what was your first race, what was the first race you came up with and directed, and where did the idea for this business come from?
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Because I don't think people realize how hard race directing is.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: You're going to really love it to to, you know, pursue this as a business.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, maybe just like talk about the first race that you guys got involved in with the.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: You know it was like a business wise.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: I don't actually know the answer to that question.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: Well, our first, our very first.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: well, so we started the, the company, in 2013, but we were producing races and events before that, so I started as a volunteer race director for the Hag Lake Trail Runs in I want to say, 2009 or 10.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: It's just a.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: It seemed like something that was cool to do.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: I was always interested in race production and volunteered to help someone out to do that and ended up doing um or doing that race for four years, four or five years, and in the meantime, um go beyond.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Racing was started with um.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Mount hood 50 was one of our first races.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: We um started the Portland trail series in Portland in 2011 and put on another 50K and half marathon in Forest Park in Portland and the business kind of grew from that as as go beyond.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: like after we officially formed, you know, the company, we had a website.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: All that was a race that we don't put on anymore.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: It was a one and done sort of thing and it came from Todd and I.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Our background was in adventure racing and so we had an event called the chubby or stubby chase, stubby chase.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: It was at Stubart state park and it was a uh team event, two-person team with one bike, and you had checkpoints.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: You had to get to taking turns with your teammate, either biking or running, so it was kind of a novel wow novel event maybe talk a little bit about adventure racing and what that is, cause I don't.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of the audience would be probably pretty interested to hear hear about adventure racing.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, adventure racing.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: Um, depending on the length of the race, they can go anywhere from, uh, you know, three hours or so.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: The short ones are, you know, 12 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: They're week-long events.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: I'm sure there are longer ones now, but essentially there's a team.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: You can do it individually as well, but most of them are team events two, three, four people.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Typically I think it's four.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Traditionally four person and at least one female.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: Everyone has to stay together.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: There's usually biking, navigating and then paddling.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: Sometimes ropes are involved.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Back a long time ago, rollerblading was part of the thing for some reason, I'm not sure why, but basically you get a map or a set of maps and there are checkpoints on the map where you have to find the checkpoints or figure out where they are, navigate to those checkpoints, punch a passport and then go to the next one, and so navigation is a big part of it.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: You have to be able to carry your bike through the woods, ride your bike on any conditions.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Sometimes you're on ropes, you know traversing with your bike hanging off you, um paddling, uh flat water, moving water in the wind, um, in lightning, storms all kinds of crazy it can.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: There can be some pretty crazy uh times with adventure racing, but it's a great team event, um, uh, great endurance event.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: You learn about nutrition, um, being cold and wet and uh, being friends with your teammates and all sorts of things.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: So you learn a lot.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: That is really cool.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: What is the scene like in the United States for that Like?
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Is there a pretty decent size scene?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: It.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I'm just surprised that there's not a bigger scene here in the Pacific Northwest, because that's like what people do here are all those things.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: And back when I did it in Portland it was just kind of starting out and the Portland scene is dead.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: There is nothing left of it here.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit left up in Seattle.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: The southeast was actually a big area back when I was doing it there was a lot of races and activity there.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: Bend Oregon has some presence left.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: There's a team that started a company that puts on adventure races now and they're based in Bend.
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: They're very active, yeah, yeah, and the Midwest was huge when I raced.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: There was a lot of, there were a ton of races in the Midwest, for whatever reason there it's kind of died off out here.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I can.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I think I can remember, like Max King, being pretty vocal about doing a race?
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very active, yeah, yeah.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: That's.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just neat to see big, big members of the sport like going after and doing stuff like that, like it's cool, I wish it would yeah, I wish it would come back and like we'd have like a bigger presence, like it'd be kind of cool if we had something in Colorado or something like that, or we might, I just might not know about it.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: So we have a race that we put on now that is a checkpoint running race.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: It's only running locally here in Portland that uses a map.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: You don't need a compass, but it's got a map with checkpoints and you have a couple hours to get to as many checkpoints as you can and back.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: So it's kind of in our blood.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: That one's 10 miles instead of hundreds of miles.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, still pretty cool, though Pretty awesome.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: All right, really quick.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm kind of all over the place just because I have so many questions.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I did want to pivot back to volcanic because I was just so interested.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: So, volcanic because I was just so interested, so, where I come from in Colorado, obviously we've got the 14ers and the backcountry and our wilderness and stuff like that and there are so many beautiful places that I'll come across and be like, oh man, it would be so cool to have a race there but we can't because of permitting and wilderness zones and stuff like that.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: It's just really interesting to me how volcanic, like that area around St Helens, is just such pristine, beautiful wilderness and you're able to have a race there.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Like, what is it like?
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Not logistic wise, but like the permitting situation, like for that is it incredibly intensive and like very logistically like demanding for the permitting or is it like pretty easy?
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: What's that like?
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Well, it was.
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: It was rough and, going back to the beginning, it was a conversation we had with the Forest Service and the permitting agency, the people who manage the monument.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: It's a national monument.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: It's a national monument.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: They were definitely not in favor of us having an event there for a while.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: So it took a while for us to be able to have the event.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: The first year we were able to do it was limited to 50 people that have the event.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: The first year we were able to do it was with limited to 50 people and I remember Rod was the name of the guy from the Forest Service who he actually was there observing during the day of the event and taking notes and like looking at everything.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: And you know, when you have an event for 50 people, you know you have as many volunteers as runners basically for that.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: So that was an interesting experience.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: And then the next year we still didn't know for sure if we were going to be able to have an event and we got 50 people again and that was it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Next year we got 100.
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: And then finally, after building some trust and they could kind of see that there wasn't any damage occurring and that we were taking care of the trails and cleaning up after ourselves.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: And people were safe.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: People were safe.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: We work with the volcano rescue team there that works on the mountain volunteer organization there at all of our events on the mountain, and so I think it took like four or five years really before we knew that okay, next year we'll be able to have an event.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: There are other events that other companies put on in the area now.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: So I'm thinking now it's probably not nearly what it was back then to do it, but at the time, the first couple of years we did it was new and and um, it was.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: It was a bit of a chore to get it.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, I bet, yeah, I mean I can't sing the praises enough.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Like I just find it so interesting.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: It was like and I can't give away too much inside baseball, but like I saw him on the board of directors for the Pikes Peak marathon and just like hearing and listening to some of the permitting logistics with that is because it's goes up a 14 or and down, and just listening to like how like that goes on.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Granted, I'm very green at understanding this stuff, but like, like man, why would anybody like this is a demanding thing for a race director to be able to figure all this stuff out?
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Like there's a lot that goes into this and then and then you know.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: The other thing, too that I thought was interesting too is like, um, you know search and rescue, and then you know donations to them and having to do it it's just a lot, it's a, it's a yeah, so it's interesting.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was interesting, the um.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: The first year we did the race, we were trying to figure out some way to get all the water up there.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: You know, we were new to it, not really sure how to do it, and then, um, something happened and we're going to have a helicopter do a drop of water, and and then the helicopter got pulled away for a fire.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: And so we were like the race is in a couple of days, and so we called all of our friends and in the middle of the night, like on a Wednesday we hiked water up.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: After everybody got off work.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: So it was kind of crazy.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: That's nuts.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: You know you figure out the logistics as you go along.
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Things are a little smoother now.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Is there any way Because I was thinking about this yesterday when I was kind of doing some planning for this conversation and I was just thinking about the blast zone Is there any way to get back there without having to walk around the whole thing?
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: You can enter it from the north side.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: There are trails but it's still.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: You have to hike in to it and then we start and finish the race on the south side of the mountain.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: So to get to the north side you have to drive all the way back out to the freeway, take the freeway north and then drive all the way into the north side.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: So it's not an easy or quick.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Hop in the car and go.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: So the volunteers that are at the that's the third aid station where there's a spring out there they actually have to go out there the night before.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: They're out there for almost a day and a half just to make sure that things get done.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: So they're out there a long time, wow, and I don't think people realize, like, how remote it is.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you a funny story when I think there was the first time I ever ran around Lewitt, I came out there, um, just because I was very interested in the race and I was trying to figure out like where I could fit it in my schedule.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: So it was like, all right, let me run the trail, because I happen come out and you know we'll, we'll hang out, you guys can do a hike and I'll run around it.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: And I told my parents, I'll be back, I'll be back in like five or six hours, like how long can this possibly take me?
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And six hours goes by and like I don't show up, I think it took me, uh, you know it, unsupported, like it's especially on a hot day, like it's brilliant, um, and so my dad's like, oh, let me go leave to go get service and see if I can like locate, because I had a spot, not a spot tracker, a garmin with me.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: He's like, let me go see if I can get service to go track him.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: And my dad leaves and gets lost on some back road.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: So I finish and I'm all stoked because I finished this big route and I was like this is great, what a fun little, fully unsupported effort.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: And I'm like where's everybody at?
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Where'd they go?
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: My dad didn't show up for an hour and a half because he got lost going around the roads.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it is so remote back there it's, it's crazy.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: And we, we have a requirement, a prerequisite for that race that you have to have run a previous uh trail 50 K or do our volcanic 25 K, just because it is so remote.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: And we want people to have a good time while they're out there and not be totally in over their heads and putting themselves or, you know, the volunteers at risk.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So we, we, we have that requirement because it's hard, we say it, it feels more like a 50 miler than a 50 K.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: No, I can definitely agree with that and I can totally see, just like cause there is not a lot of opportunity for help out there that you should have an idea of what you're doing, bringing the right equipment with you, and stuff like that.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Like, for sure, for sure.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Well, guys, I don't want to bury the lead too much, and we're 20 minutes into this already.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: So one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation was, you know, we here in sub ultra we love to follow the sport.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: Obviously, you like to talk.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Talk about new sub-ultra races that pop up, and you guys have one that's going to be coming out pretty soon.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Uh, they're going to be announcing probably around the time this podcast comes out.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: So if you want to.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I'll give it, hand it over to you guys to talk about that and we'll we'll talk about that.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Sure, we actually just announced it today, yep.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So it is now out there.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: It's called the fire lane trail trial and it is, and it is in Forest Park here in Portland, on a fire lane, and it's steep.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: It is short but it is steep, and so what makes this one unique is the short steep factor.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: We don't have anything like that in our portfolio and there's not really anything like that around actually thinking about that.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: It's just four and a half miles up and down.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: You have about 1200 feet of gain in that distance and we are doing this as a time trial.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: So we'll be starting runners out in groups of 10 every 10 minutes, and so you won't have any idea of how you're doing compared to everybody else.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Until the whole thing's all done, we're going to have a party going on during the race at a nearby brewery Great Notion Brewing and we'll have a live stream going on with the results and live stream footage from on the course.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So once you're done, or while you're waiting for your time to start, you can be watching the carnage and see what's happening out there as it's, as it's unfolding.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I love that and it's such a cool and unique idea.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Like it's not like, okay, we're just going to do a VK or just a hill climb, like this is a hill climb, obviously, or a type of a hill climb with an up down feature.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: But also, like I like that.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: It's like spread out with like 10 groups of 10, like that's very unique and it's yeah, you can't really, you just have to go out there with your best and hoping that you're bringing the best, so racing other people.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: You know it's going to be very unique for that.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: That's cool yeah, you're not going to know when you're when you run, where you are exactly so are you going to tear it like, for instance, like you're joe, you are Exactly.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Are you going to tier it For instance, you're Joe Gray's of the world?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you're elite of the elites.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Would you group them all together to go first and then group and keep it by ranking for ultrasound?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: How are you guys going to do groups of 10?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: It's totally random.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: No, it is up to the runner.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: They get to pick their time slot.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: When people register they'll give us their three preferred time slots and then we'll seat them that way, trying our best to be able to give everybody to accommodate their preferences.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: So a group of 10 that's starting could have some super fast people in it, could have some really strong climbers, could have some people doing their first trail race.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: This is very cool.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: What's uh, what is the exact location Like?
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Where's the area at Like?
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Is it uh, like it kind of out there?
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Is it close to the city, like where we're?
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so um, forest park is uh, is um, and I'm going to get the directions wrong.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: But forest park is fairly long and it kind of runs, we'll just say north-south, and these fire lanes are cut east-west.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Don't get angry with me, I have to get these directions wrong.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: That's totally fine.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: They're perpendicular and so the fire lanes kind of run straight up to the top and back and essentially they're cut in place so that, you know, fire vehicles could get in and fight fires if there was a fire, so that hence the name Fire Lane.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: This one is Fire Lane 1, which is the close, kind of the closest one to the center of town.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: It's actually a new trailhead that the Portland Parks and Recreation put in last year, year before, and they're anxious to get people out there to see it.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: A lot of people, even in our little trail running world, haven't been to the trailhead yet to see it.
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: Um, so we're starting the race there, but it's uh, it's in the city of Portland.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, nice man, and like, let's talk steepness and like technicality.
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Now you said it's a kind of a road, in a sense, where it's like fire vehicles have to be able to access it.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: So is it like like a strong technical component to it, or is it just like super fire fire road?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: It's going to be fast then.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's.
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: It's not technical at all, I don't.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to think if there's even any like roots on it.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: It's not technical in terms of the surface, like the, it's not Rudy or Rocky, it is a nice dirt double track.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: In most places, or in many places, you will be able to say, yeah, this is a double track.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: In some areas it's uh, not a clear double track.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: It's a fire truck could get there if they needed to.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: But you wouldn't look at it thinking, oh yeah, a fire truck's easily going to drive down here, gotcha.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: Tacoma, Toyota Tacoma.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: So it's steep.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: It's definitely steep, then.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: The technical part is the start and finish, because it I didn't look at the grade there, but at the start there's a picture on the website of what the start finish looks like and it's got these.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: What would you call those Sort of concrete pavers.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: Because it is so freaking steep right at the start and there's steps off to the side, so that I mean it'll be interesting to watch people take off and even more interesting to see them coming down that finish.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Strategy-wise too.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: There's going to be some interesting things at play for how people choose to go out strategy-wise.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Let's talk live stream.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: What is that going to be like?
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Is it going to be on YouTube so you can watch it from that, or is it going to be like a link on the website?
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: How's that going to work so?
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: you can watch it from that, or is it going to be like a link on the website?
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Like, how's that going to work?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: We are talking to a few different folks about how that's going to be hosted now.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: So it'll be on a screen at the brewery, at Great Notion Brewing, for the folks there to see.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: We'll likely have it for the general public in real time as well, kind of wanting people to show up to the brewery, and it doesn't have to be um, you don't have to race to come to the party to watch Um, so we'll have a spot.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, at the top, um, so you can see people tag the gate and turn around and head back down.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Uh, we are also looking at having possibly one at the um finish line or maybe a midpoint, on course, but, um, still working on that stuff.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I, I love the idea of doing like more live streams and getting more involved with that in the sport, because, I don't know, I think from like a racing perspective like obviously it's, it's more fun to follow you know different runners that you might be familiar with, or you could follow some loved ones or whoever you know, whoever you're cheering for but even more so too from a race director perspective, like I don't know, I, um, I talked to Tom Hooper a lot.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Tom Hooper runs um six or three endurance out on the East coast and you know, he just like made it very apparent to me it's like you know how many eyeballs you can get on your races when you have something on like a YouTube or something like that where it's just much more.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: You know, you can just attract a significantly bigger audience or get people, um, that don't even know anything about the sport to learn about it.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: You know well, it's not just necessarily a race Like this is a very unique type of race, so it's it's something a little bit different.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So I think that's really cool.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a fun part of it, I think yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I, what is the exact date?
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: sorry about that.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I just think I should have written that down may 17th.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: It's a saturday, okay, saturday may 17th super cool and registration open already, or is it?
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: uh, this wednesday, this wednesday okay, february 5th, perfect, okay, so this will go.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: We can get this out on Wednesday, so that way it'll launch when registration opens.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Perfect.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I do have a question, kind of unrelated, do you cause I'm such a big fan of the Narnar race?
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Will that one ever come back?
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I would say never, but I don't know that one.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: The venue where that was hosted used to have mountain biking as part of their summer offerings and they had an unfortunate death actually, and lawsuit that came after that, where they shut down their mountain biking activities and then they really stopped doing anything with the trails.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: It's a ski resort and so it just became a little more difficult to work with the venue to put the event on there.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Our last year of having it, in fact there was a huge construction project, I mean like a big hole in the ground pipe.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I think they were rerouting a creek or something right at the start finish line.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: So it just it kind of became too much.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: It's also a popular venue for a wedding.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, weddings and parties and such so weddings seem to be able to pay a lot more for venues than um races, so it just became sort of a difficult thing to to plan around other events but also then to be able to just afford to be there and all of that.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So that's so disappointing.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: I, I, I didn't do that specific race, but I ha, I have.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I saved the course, Cause the last time I went out there I went and ran around the course.
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: I started from a different start area.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: I went up.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: Um damn, what is the name of that mountain?
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: On the side there's like a no no, no, it's, it's.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, dick and Harry, that's it.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I went up that and got to like a beautiful Boulder field up at the top and then kind of crossed over into the ski, the ski resort, um, and then took the ski road down and I was like, wow, this, this is like such a cool area for a race.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: So that's a that's a serious disappointment.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I hopefully they can work out and eventually bring that one out, bring that one.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: It was so cool watching everybody come down, cause you could see, geez, I don't know, about a mile from the finish you can see people coming down, zigzagging down and you can see, like you know, max chasing Joe down and all that sort of thing.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty cool to see.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, those two are interesting characters, two of the two of the best ever.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, that was super cool.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what I mean, like I said, in that area, is just like pristine and beautiful and uh, yeah, so no, I I'm excited that you guys kind of have.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: This is almost like kind of a, you know, like a hybridized version yeah, it is a nod to narnar yeah for sure, for sure.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Um, I'm trying to think is there anything we didn't cover for the race?
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I want to make sure we we cross all our T's and dot our I's.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: We got location, we got time, we got day, we got course that we talked about um live stream.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Is there anything we miss?
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Um, our beneficiary for this one is a little different.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: We normally, uh, donate uh to either a trail organization or a youth running organization, but this one, since it's on a fire lane, we decided to do something related to firefighters.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: And so there is a local organization that hosts a fire camp for women who are interested in becoming firefighters, and so, um, uh, portland Metro fire camp is the name, and that's who our beneficiary is for this race, which we think is kind of cool.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's awesome, it's a good, it's a good, uh good beneficiary.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if there's anything else we didn't cover for it.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Um signups do we have?
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: So signups you said are going to be opening on Wednesday, our signups for volcanic and the other races open yet.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, volcanic just opened, uh first.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, february 1st.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, cool, yeah, and it's going well.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: People are definitely signing up for for volcanic.
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: I was just talking to somebody, I forget.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: I was on an episode the other day.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: It might've been cool.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I I forget.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I was on an episode the other day.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: It might have been Cole Campbell, I can't remember.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: You know what.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: It was an Arc'teryx athlete, jesse McCauley, who you might be familiar with.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: He's up in Squamish we were just talking about I think he just placed just off the podium a few years ago.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: He was talking about that's a race in the Pacific Northwest I'd love to come back to and do so.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of it's.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: It's uh, as far North as like Squamish and like all those areas like people know about that race.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, we get a lot of people from bridge, columbia, for sure.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And a lot of our races actually, that we have a great following of uh folks up in BC who like to come down.
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: Come down all the way to Oregon.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah or Washington yeah.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: So, with this one entering the calendar, is there any cool ideas for the future you guys have for other ones that you're thinking about?
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: It's funny that you say that, because we actually, the last couple of years, have started paring down our calendar a bit.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: We are pretty nonstop May, actually April through October, where we have either a race or trail work or, uh, like preparation, like the hauling the water up for the race, um, almost every weekend, and so, um, it's a lot and we, our quality of life was deteriorating a little bit and so we started pairing.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: We got rid of another really steep race that you probably would have liked called the Elk Kings 50K and 25K.
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: We stopped doing that one and also, with the addition of um the 200 to our schedule, we just really had to pare back to be able to to do that.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, well, the 200.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Just, you know, it was a Herculean, uh, huge, huge effort to get that one off the ground and so, um, so that was actually one of the reasons also that Narnar went by the wayside, because that was in August and our 200, oregon 200, is also in August, and so we couldn't continue to do Narnar because of the 200, unless we changed the date of Narnar and that wasn't an option for us with all of our other events.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Very interesting To answer your question.
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: I don't blame you.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: That's the answer.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: But you know it's funny, we have a problem.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: We have a problem Whenever we go anywhere, whether we're riding a bike or driving or running or whatever we're always thinking of races where we go.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: And so we've come up with some ideas for events.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: And permitting doesn't work, parking doesn't work or whatever, but we're always thinking of things to do.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: So we can't really turn that off, but we're trying to keep some sort of balance at this point and with the 200, as Renee mentioned it's a little bit tough to plan things in August now.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: So Well, and with this race, with the fire lane trail trial.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: You know when, when that trail had opened parks, Portland parks reached out to us about being part of kind of their grand opening event.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: But we couldn't because it was the same weekend as Volcanic, actually last year.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: But we had this idea in our pocket already at that point when they reached out to us and so we shared it with them and they were excited about it.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: And then we were talking with Nike Trail and we actually they're the first besides portland parks that we talked to about this race and our contact there thought it was amazing and, uh, he was like, yes, let's do this.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: And so nike trail has been uh key in helping us get this developed and launched as well.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: So we we, as todd said we have a file of ideas, but just not enough weekends to be able to do them all.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Well, we could talk about work-life balance in a second Cause that.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: But one thing I do want to get to is so I was going to mention that cause I can remember the old NAR, nar um metals having like a Nike trail logo on them or something like that, and I can remember Nike trail sponsoring it.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: So that's really interesting and very cool Cause I Nike is right down the road from you guys more or less um that they have a good presence with supporting races in the area.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, and I'm going to get this wrong too, but, um, we started working with Nike trail when they and again.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: Correct me where I go wrong here, but they relaunched their Nike trail shoes 2012,.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: I think, 2012, I believe, 2012, 13.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: 13, yeah, and we had the Wild Horse Ones and it was really really cool to start working with them then and we've worked with them ever since then, ever since, on all of our events and so they've been a huge part of our events and supporting our events and they're a big part of the running community in Portland and super supportive of a lot of things that we do.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: But just trail in general, they're they're you know, we have 20 30 people that we know that work at Nike, that run trail.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: We all the folks at Nike trail are great partners, people we've worked with for um, the contact I originally had back in 2012 as somebody who we see at all of our events her husband runs our races and um, just a great continuity with that um that crew over there.
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: So that's about Mikey trail.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean listen, I I have a lot of good things to say.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Like it seems like over the last couple of years, like they've really on the trail athlete side, like more so into the athletes, like really invested into, in spending their team.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Their products seem to be great, like their shoes are awesome.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Now, yeah, they've come a really long way, so it's cool to see them like very much involved with the community.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: Yep, they're great yeah, back to work-life balance, it feels good to have a local work with a little a small local company like them too, yeah Right.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Well, just a little little upstart, right.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny when you say that cause, like I think of, like, uh, especially as an athlete, like I think of like Nike as this big behemoth, right, and it's like, oh well, it's interesting to see them like in the trail space, but it's a huge.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Like I was just before we got on the podcast, I was reading an article about I think it was Satisfye running.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: It just took like a huge 11 euro, like they're trying to get to 100 million euro in sales over the next five years and it's like, oh my gosh, like this, the trail space is big money, like it's growing massively.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: So it's cool to see like Nike, more so at the grassroots community level, like even at I think it was Western States a couple of years ago or last year, like, rather than sponsor anything, they just showed up totally grassroots, uh, like very gorilla marketing, and were out there and had a huge presence, um, and people really were receptive to that.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: So it's it's cool to see them growing in the sport.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: So, um, oh yeah, so yeah, back to work life balance.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: What I was going to say was yeah.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: I'll go.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: So my answer to that and I get asked that a lot and you know it's funny some people that are that maybe don't race or just volunteer or whatever they or know that we put on races are like oh, do you run your races too?
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: And we're not able to do that because we want to make sure things work and things are going well.
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: Not that we don't trust our volunteers.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: We have stuff to do.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: No you're busy, you're working, work and things are going well.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: Not that we don't trust our volunteers, because we have stuff, yeah, no, you're busy, you're working.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: We don't run our races.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: Actually, I've run a Portland trail series race, which is like a, a series of races by miles or so.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: Uh, that I can do Um, but we are out on the courses, scouting courses, uh, marking courses for the races.
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Um, out on the trails doing trail work and doing adventure runs, just out on, just having fun.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: We're in a couple different trail running groups every week so we get out and run.
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: I haven't I don't remember the last year two years ago, three years ago we did a couple races where we actually raced Um, so I'm not disciplined enough to be able to um have a training program during the year and then say, oh, today I'm supposed to run 20 miles, but I have to do this instead and then figure out something.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: So it was for me it was just too much pressure and it just didn't feel good um to try to train for a race during the season.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: So I I'm perfectly happy with just getting a bunch of miles and just doing stuff related to the business.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: But getting out on trails for sure, and I'm just having fun and not pressuring myself too much about it.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I don't blame you.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: We're going to race.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: It's got to be like November to maybe March, and here in the Northwest that's not the most beautiful time to be out racing.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we, we don't do a lot of racing ourselves anymore.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: No, I gotcha, I, I, I don't blame you.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Like I said, there's need to have balance and everything.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I feel like if I was directing that many races, I would uh, I don't know, I might just like want a long break and not even want to go near the sport for a couple of months, so I could say it's a lot.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: I can understand how it's a lot of work.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think for some people, some people it works.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, some people, can, you know, have kind of chaotic schedules and still figure out a way to do it.
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: I just, um, uh, I'm not one of those people.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I understand.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: All right, guys, we'll start winding down a little bit.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Now I want to get into some questions.
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: I'm curious to see who inspires you.
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: Can I go first?
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: I mean, you know there were there were a couple, a couple of times in the last two years.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: Well, there've been people throughout the time that I've been doing putting on events or having go beyond racing where I've been inspired by people, um, that do things that you're just like you had no business doing that, but you were able to do it.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: And you know, we always I always joke and joke about Renee crying at the finish line when we see people finish and those are the things that you see, people that you know that have been, you know, maybe not weren't able to run that far for a while and, for whatever reason, they start training and they're able to accomplish around 100 miles or 50k or whatever.
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: People who didn't feel comfortable doing trail runs, uh, being at trail races felt like they were kind of out of place and not really their their world.
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: Um, thinking of a guy who, um, we met at portland trail series, who's a little bigger guy.
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: Um, he did volcanic 25k last year and when he was done he just hung out for like hours because he just wanted to soak in the whole environment and like what he accomplished, right, um, so those types of people yeah, I taught and I are matched in this very well is that it's the uh, the everyday runners that inspire us.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Um, we actually don't like really get into, you know, the following the elites.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: It's the um, like the first timers doing their first hundred or their first ultra, and you know, obviously we know a lot of people.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: We've been doing this for this is our 12th year, I think, and so we know a lot of people and it's those folks that inspire us.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: I can think of a whole bunch of, you know, local friends that I've met over the years and watch them progress in the sport, Um, and that's the part that really gets us going.
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: That's that's why we do what we do.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: I mean the during the 200, uh, the last 23,.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: Um, you know, there were people there I didn't know what to expect Really.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: Um, you see people that you're like, yeah, you're probably know what to expect really.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Um, you see people that you're like, yeah, you're probably this is gonna be tough for you because you just they don't maybe look like a stereotypical runner, but they don't have the experience and you get in two or three days or four days and five days and you see what they go through and you see what they do, and then you're like, oh my god, I would.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: I mean after that I was so exhausted but I just wanted to go out and run.
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: Some of those people are pretty amazing.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to be able to.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: You know, and that's the thing show up when you might not look like a stereotypical runner but you're able to do battle for five days out on a course.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Like you know, I have more I understand and more I think I have more respect for someone that can do that in five days, as opposed to maybe maybe two days where it's only you know, yeah, you might be running a little harder, but you're only, you're only living out on the course for 24 hours, 48 hours, you know, and sleeping on the dirt for a little bit of time, whereas these people are out there for a week you know it's crazy.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, on the other hand too, like you mentioned, max King, but the people like Max who do our events and um you see how fast they run and like you.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: You say you mark that course and you see how fast they do it.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: We always joke when we mark volcanic.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: We are literally halfway around with the course when the first in the amount of time that the first runner is done.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's just like, uh, you know, that's inspiring's inspiring to think okay, I should be able to get a little bit faster now because these people are doing stuff way, way faster.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: So that's inspiring to me as well.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: The pointy end of the sport is is crazy, like some of the people in the front are.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it's, it's wild to see like, and especially max is not young, max is 43, 44 he's a pretty old guy, yeah he's, he's not a spring chicken, so for, and joe joe himself too, just like 41.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: So you see, some of these guys that are still, uh, at the top of the sport, you know, into their 40s is is.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: That's inspiring in its own right too, you know, just to see, like, all right, well, you know you could have, you can have a long career in the sport, you know.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, and it's an amazing sport.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I think I love so much about it is the fact that, like, there's just so much opportunity in the sense where, like, you can line up, everybody can line up together in a race, right, there's not this segregated thing between elites and non-elites, and everybody can be at the front, everybody can go and participate and, you know, you can have the exactly the day that you want to have.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, I think that's one of the beautiful things about the sport and hopefully, it doesn't get too professionalized where they start to change.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: that I don't think that's very fair.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah so well, there may be some of that, you know some, some things are trending that way, but I think there's always going to be the kind of the old school you know, smaller, more intimate type events as well, where you can't be.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: You know, standing at the start line with somebody super special and it's your first trail race ever.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I actually have a question really kind of related to that is, and I asked Tom Hooper this and he gave me a pretty good answer.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Um, I actually asked a couple of race directors this.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Now I know the Pacific pressure.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: We have to give you a good answer now uh well, the pacific northwest is interesting where, like you guys, I don't think there isn't utmb race up there yet.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Like is there?
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Do you guys feel any pressure from utmb to try to come into that area and like squeeze other races out, like, and what are your thoughts on that?
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: I'm very curious because, like you guys are very much a grassroots company and grassroots race directing, so it you're very much the soul of the sport.
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: Well, one of the things that we have in this area there aren't too many places that we can put on an event where there is not a pretty low capacity limit.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: So, for example, our 100 miler and a couple of other events are on the PCT, which is 150 person capacity.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: So those are limited.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: You can't have more than 150 people in a race on the PCT.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: Race around Volcanic is one where we have more people that sort of our own decision in terms of how many people you want to have on the course.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: But then at some point is it too crowded or not?
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: So we have to make those decisions.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: But we are limited in a lot of ways from the jurisdictions where we put on events where you just can't have that many people.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Six years ago five years ago I can't remember exactly we had the opportunity to meet the founders of UTMB and we went out to dinner or to lunch and met with them and another consultant they were working with.
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: They were shopping for events in the area and were very not understanding why we couldn't do something like Leadville where you could have a thousand people on the trail.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: And why weren't there events and why didn't we want to do events like that out here and, um, you know, I think they met with other race directors as well, but I don't know that this part of the world lends itself, uh, to that sort of thing, because there aren't any, just big um fire lane, aside from the fire lane trail trial fire lanes that are big and wide and open and could have hundreds of people and facilitate with what they're doing.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the permitting agencies just don't allow it.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: The forest service you just can't have an event that big.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Which is good.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, that's kind of my thought on.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: It is like it kind of keeps, you know, keeps the grassroots very much the soul of the sport established in that area and keeps it there.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: And it keeps the bigger corporate corporate however people feel about this, yeah, I'm fine with whatever but, like you know, keeps the bigger corporation from coming in and consolidating races, which I think is a is a good thing to kind of keep that out, like that's okay for other parts of the country.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, and I think there's there's room for everybody in a lot of sense with the sport, but still, like, I think that's kind of good that the permitting situation lends itself to that yeah, it's.
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: It's interesting and when we started doing uh, well, when, when I started doing uh, hag lake trail runs and there were like literally six ultras in oregon and there was a group of the Oregon um, oregon trail.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Oregon trail series.
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: Oregon trail series and um, mount hood 50 was one of them.
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: It's been around since 1999 and others that have been around 20, 25 years.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: Um, and now there are many, many, many races.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: But you know, smaller races and people love doing UTMB, they love doing Western, they love doing the big races and, um, that's great, people travel, they it's a, it's an important thing for them to do those races, which is great, um, but I'm not sure that this area could facilitate those bigger race like that, but maybe yeah, no, it's good to know.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: No, it's, it's very interesting.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: All right, I got a.
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: I got a funny question for you guys, especially being from the Pacific Northwest.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: This is something I literally ask every person on the podcast.
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: What do you, what's your guys' thought on Bigfoot?
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: The monster.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Like, like, like Sasquatch.
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: Sasquatch.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: No one really knows right.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I mean like, the reason I asked too is because there's a lot of like really good like lore around like Mount St Helens, with like Bigfoot running around, you know, yeah, I, I mean, uh, the obvious answer is Bigfoot doesn't exist, right, because no one's ever found Bigfoot.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: No one's ever seen him.
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: No one's ever seen him there.
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: You see a lot of these like animals that were apparently extinct, and someone sees one some random guys in a park and he sees this thing that hasn't been seen for 30 years.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: That's could possibly be like that for bigfoot too.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, if bigfoot's going to exist, it's going to be up in this area for sure.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah absolutely kind of a funny story.
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: I was doing, um an adventure race in missouri, southeast missouri, in the Mark Twain National Forest, at this resort what's called resorts in quotes bass bass fishing resort and these people are like like they live out in the woods all the time.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: And these people two of these guys, younger guys were out on a river on a boat and they said that these giant rocks were getting launched towards them like big rocks, like too big for a person to throw, and they were seriously scared that it was Bigfoot throwing rocks at them.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: And the people there totally believed, because all these things they couldn't explain any other other way.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: So you know, you hear about things like that too, so maybe yeah.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's crazy.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: I like I said I've had some like this is my I don't know 70th, 80th something, podcasts and like I've asked this question to almost a hundred people now and everybody talks like, oh well, maybe the Pacific Northwest, and like I think you guys might be some of the first people from the Pacific Northwest that I've had on the podcast.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: So it's like, and then you put on an app, like you put on a um, you know, a race, like literally where Bigfoot would technically be in theory so.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Figured it's a good cool question to ask you guys.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: We've never seen him and we've been out in the woods, deep in the woods, for decades.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Bubber, absolute bummer.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: Well, guys, thank you so much for coming on.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate it.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: I want to wish you the absolute best of luck on your new race, as well as the whole racing season for you guys.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: I hope it's exciting and fruitful for you guys.
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: So thank you so much for coming on the pod and next time you guys have anything to talk about, or if you have a new race coming out or if you want to promote and talk about any of them, feel free to come on and we can talk about.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: It Sounds great, awesome, good meeting you guys, yeah, you as well.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks, James.
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Oh man, what a fun episode.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Great conversation.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I was so curious to see how they put on that uh, the volcanic 50 K, because it isn't such a remote area and, like the, if you guys have never been on the Luit Trail, sign up for that race.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: I have not done it.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: I plan on doing it soon.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I just need to fit it into my schedule, but that trail is so remote and so beautiful and so cool and it's just really amazing that they're able to put a race on out there.
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: I can't speak highly enough of that area enough and I really want to thank Todd and Renee so much.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: What a great conversation.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: So really looking forward to their new sub ultra race, the fire lane trail trial.
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: If you guys have nothing going on in May and are looking for something competitive and fun and unique, this is going to be the thing for you.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Like they said, steep, it's not super technical, it's just really steep and it's going to be fast and speedy.
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: It's a very unique race where it's going to be in groups of 10.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: So it'll be kind of in heats, if you will, which makes it a little more unique.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: It's a short thing.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: It's only four, four miles and change with a little bit somewhere around 15, 12 to 1500 feet of vertical, so definitely going to be super exciting and something you're going to want to throw on your calendar coming up.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: I already saw some people on Instagram I calendar coming up.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: Um, I already saw some people on Instagram.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I saw Rachel Drake in the comments there.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: So hopefully they get a pretty stout field of uh elites and, you know, get a bunch of us to come throw down.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: It'd be super fun.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Um, guys, sign up for that race.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: It's.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: The link for the signup is going to be in the show notes.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Uh, check that out as well.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: As.
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: Go beyond racing.
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Go give them a follow on Instagram.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Um, and you're going to be able to find the sign up on Instagram as well as in the show notes.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Sign up opens the day this pod actually drops, which is going to be Wednesday, february 5th, and yeah, so I hope you guys enjoy.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Keep a lookout for Friday's episode with the man, the myth, the legend himself, mr Hardworker, mr Cole Campbell, I really enjoyed that conversation.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Super cool, cole Campbell.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: I am so excited to bring that one to you.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: I really want to say thank you so much to him for helping me or letting me help tell a story.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: So definitely one of the more fun conversations I've had in a while.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: So, guys, have a great rest of your week.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, take care.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Thank you.