Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 271 - Helen Markham & The J D Tippit Murder

Transcript

JFK Assassination - Ep. 271 - Helen Markham & The J D Tippit Murder · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:01
  Here is mob and Joby, Joby and the Bammy and Joby, Sillo,
• 0:08
  Comma Ride Dies, Tibo Be and Joby, Joby and Them, jim Be
• 0:15
  and Joby, Send Darma, Rye Dies and Charm Comedy's speaking, the podcasts,
• 0:33
  the None comment Die Gize and he we go and here we go.
• 0:47
  Everybody. Welcome to the show. This is episode number two and seventy one,
• 0:52
  and today we have a very special guest joining the show, uh from
• 0:56
  down Under. His name is Gavin McMahon and he is the author of an
• 1:00
  article which recently appeared in volume fifteen of Garrison. The Journal. Will put
• 1:04
  a link in the description down below where you can find it, and he
• 1:10
  did an argument entitled Tippitt Conspiracy and cover Up the story of Lee Harvey Oswald
• 1:15
  and Dallas Police Officer JD. Tippett. Welcome to the show, Gavin.
• 1:21
  How are you doing, sir, good? Thanks Guds, Thanks for having
• 1:23
  me. Yeah, we're very pleased to have you and very interested in what
• 1:29
  you have to tell us because I know for me personally, there's certain aspects
• 1:34
  of the Kennedy assassination that I don't look into as probably as much as I
• 1:38
  should. And one is probably the medical evidence, and the other one is
• 1:42
  probably the Tippitt murder. There's just so much there to take in, so
• 1:49
  many witnesses, so much testimony, so many unanswered questions, so much confusion,
• 1:55
  so much you know, this way and that way, and it's all
• 2:00
  very confusing. And I know, you know, some people have tried to
• 2:04
  do it and have done it very well. You know, we had some
• 2:06
  great books about it, and it seems like you've stumbled across some startlingly new
• 2:12
  revelations and information when it pertains to the tipp And murder involving Helen Markham and
• 2:19
  her family. But before we get into things, Gavin, just let the
• 2:23
  listeners know a little bit about yourself and how you kind of became interested in
• 2:28
  the Kennedy assassination, you know, being from Australia. Yeah, it looks
• 2:34
  been interested in it for quite a long time. In fact, some of
• 2:37
  the other members of the family have been as well. So we've read a
• 2:39
  lot of material early on, and of course in recent times. I was
• 2:43
  able to retire fairly early from work, which was good. I'm a retired
• 2:49
  law enforcement with customs and Vorder protection or was it with customs and Vorder protection
• 2:53
  here in Australia. So since retirement I've been able to get a lot closer
• 2:59
  to how I look at a lot more of the information. I think,
• 3:01
  as you pointed out there, there's been a lot of confusion, and I
• 3:07
  find that very odd. I don't think that's an accident that's been made that
• 3:12
  way. As far as myself I spent I've done four trips to the States
• 3:21
  holiday of course with my wife several occasions, and then I've actually been over
• 3:24
  there, specifically to Dallas conference times. I went to two different conferences JFK
• 3:30
  and Judith Baker. The conferences, how would I describe those underwhelming? There's
• 3:38
  some good contacts you make, but I think they've had their day. They
• 3:42
  would be much better if having a forum for a lot of question and answer,
• 3:45
  I think, but that is what it is. It was when I
• 3:49
  did the trips over there, I got to know people on the knoll a
• 3:53
  little bit, and that includes Mike Browlow, Bill Poulty, some others connected
• 4:00
  with those guys. Those two guys have passed away, by the way,
• 4:04
  you're probably aware, and they've got some youtubes out there. Two completely different
• 4:12
  personalities. Mike, of course pretty well known African American. That's sort of
• 4:16
  like it was pretty pretty out there. He didn't make a lot of notes.
• 4:23
  He had a lot of notes, but he actually, I think let
• 4:26
  himself down that he didn't present some of that in a more cohesive manner.
• 4:30
  But his information was very good. Bill Pouti was an Emirates professor at SMU,
• 4:35
  so you've got chalk and cheese there, but they got to know their
• 4:40
  stuff. The interesting thing that what attracted me to that was that Mike had
• 4:45
  big contacts with Bobby Hargas and got to know a lot of the cops there,
• 4:48
  and I thought, that's swe you're going to find out what's going on.
• 4:53
  So my view on the whole thing, of course, is very straightforward.
• 4:57
  I'm in a bit of an odd camp. Was a Patsy, absolutely,
• 5:00
  no two ways about it. When you mentioned the medical evidence, that's
• 5:03
  the key. I think that really tells you this was covered up and that
• 5:10
  they had to because it was going to take you more than the Patsy to
• 5:14
  do what happened Oswald and Patsy. And that's where I'm a bit different when
• 5:20
  we get to the tip side of things, because I think some years ago
• 5:23
  I wasn't really sure. I just assumed why he didn't do that, you
• 5:26
  know, And it was after really being exposed to some of the information,
• 5:31
  but also talking to those guys at others, and then I started to realize
• 5:38
  that, you know, if you look at things in simple terms, if
• 5:41
  you've got a patsy, and I believe that he was, you're going to
• 5:46
  have to do something with the patsy. You're either going to let him escape
• 5:48
  on a plane and live happy, happily ever after and in reality to Generia
• 5:53
  or somewhere, or you're going to arrest him and put him on trial and
• 5:58
  send him to prison as a patsy, or you're going to take him out.
• 6:02
  So there's not many other options. Now, I think a lot of
• 6:06
  people seem to have got away from the fact that if there was a patsy,
• 6:10
  I can guarantee you they did not take their eyes off Oswald from the
• 6:14
  minute it all went down to the minute in the theater when they actually grabbed
• 6:19
  hold of him. So they're not going to have him just suddenly disappear.
• 6:23
  How do you have a plan with a patsy if he disappears. So that's
• 6:28
  the sort of intrigue that got me interested and that led me then to looking
• 6:32
  at some articles the various forums that are out there. Some absolute rubbish on
• 6:40
  Facebook forums groups, but there is some information you still can glean through that.
• 6:46
  And what that led me to was reading some articles which I thought,
• 6:49
  well, is a disinformation that there's no way in the world, and that
• 6:54
  then led me to make some contact with some people. And my initial contact
• 6:58
  was made with a by the name of lad Helan and that he's the son
• 7:03
  of missus Doris Land who was living in the area and made some observations about
• 7:08
  a second police car. So that's where it really kicked in for me.
• 7:12
  I started saying, okay, what's going on there, and of course Mike
• 7:15
  Brownlow and building it also come to the same conclusion from people I had spoken
• 7:18
  to, the second police car was there. So that led to more contacts
• 7:26
  and different other people that I spoke to, and then ultimately it led me
• 7:31
  to the contact with the Markham family. Now, as I put in the
• 7:38
  article, the Markham family for sixty years has been very quiet about everything,
• 7:42
  and as you read the article, it sort of explains why they've had to
• 7:46
  be quiet, because they were shut down. Any people in the family just
• 7:53
  a little bit of background there all and mark them had five children as two
• 7:56
  girls and three boys. You've literally had those five people have all passed.
• 8:03
  They were all had partners or whatever. James Markham was the second youngest and
• 8:11
  William was the youngest. Now the lady that I spoke to, Laverne was
• 8:16
  William's husband for forty eight years. He only passed about five years ago.
• 8:22
  James Markham, which we'll get into a little bit, he died in prison,
• 8:26
  so he was actually sent to prison, and I think he died in
• 8:30
  prison there in Texas. They're the two that were associated with this game that
• 8:35
  we'll talk about in a little bit. But did you want me to just
• 8:39
  explain what the crux of the Markham information from the family was? Yeah,
• 8:46
  yeah, real quick, I got I got a question. Did you say?
• 8:48
  Laverne y is a male female? Oh? Female? Okay, the
• 8:54
  daughter in law of hell On mark Correct. So I'm married to William.
• 9:01
  Correct, she's married William. So she's Helen mark She knew Helen for thirty
• 9:05
  years. Yeah, before we do, just real quick, kind of nutshell,
• 9:11
  the official Helen Markham's story that you know that everybody's heard for sixty years
• 9:20
  before we get into the new information, you know what I mean for those
• 9:24
  who might not be familiar with who Helen Markham is. Yeah, yeah,
• 9:31
  I can give you that. So what we've got the official story is that
• 9:35
  Oswald was walking down the street from the east. Tip It comes from behind
• 9:41
  him in the car, pulls over, goes to has some conversation with Oswald
• 9:46
  through the window of the car, and then the policeman off the Tippet gets
• 9:50
  out of the car, goes around the front and around to the front and
• 9:54
  then it's shot by Tippet. So what you have there is numerous people who
• 10:00
  then were presented by the police as witnesses, and the star witness was Helen
• 10:05
  Markham, who was supposedly standing caddy corner to this incident. That's a term
• 10:11
  I've got used to you now on an American term. We don't need that
• 10:13
  over here. But anyway, she was standing there and saw all this unfold
• 10:20
  in front of her. There were some other witnesses that were there. She
• 10:24
  then observed Oswald a man leave the area run down pattern, and then she
• 10:33
  talked to the police was taking down the police station and then did a line
• 10:37
  up a couple of hours later and identified Ozwal, So that's it very broadly.
• 10:41
  There's a brief interaction between tiber nosele through the car window. Then Tipic
• 10:46
  gets out and Ozill shoots him, and then Oswill leaves. From where she
• 10:50
  was standing on the corner there, right, she's waiting for a bus to
• 10:56
  go to work. And when you say that Tippett and Oswald are traveling in
• 11:03
  a westwardly direction from the east, they're both going in the same direction,
• 11:09
  and Oswald, I guess, is in front of Tippet. Tippet comes up
• 11:13
  from behind him and pulls over. Correct, that's what they're saying officially,
• 11:20
  when they're coming from the west, they're coming from the right hand, you
• 11:24
  know, from the Texas Theater site, going towards the east, towards Marsalis
• 11:28
  up tent. So supposedly tipp It comes from behind Oswald and pulls him over
• 11:33
  just past the corner of the tent. And pattern when you say hell Markham
• 11:39
  was going to catch a bus, the bus was down at Jefferson, So
• 11:41
  she's still got She lives on ninth Street, which is tenth Street obviously ninth
• 11:46
  Street just back up from there, probably one hundred meters I think, so
• 11:50
  she'd only walked a short distance to get to the corner of Tent and Patten.
• 11:54
  The supposed story is that she would continue would walk across Patten cross Tame
• 12:00
  Street down to Jefferson another one hundred meters or so, and that's where her
• 12:05
  bus was at about you know, one to twelve. But as well,
• 12:09
  we'll get to in a minute that that's the official story. But that's correct.
• 12:13
  Yes, yes, thank you for so. You want me to just
• 12:22
  give you a bit of an understanding of what the family was able to reveal
• 12:26
  Laverne in particularly, Yes, absolutely, I'm dying to hear this. Yes,
• 12:31
  okay, So Laverne, she's in the sixties, late sixties. She's
• 12:37
  a retired teacher. So we got to talk to her. I got to
• 12:39
  talk to her, talked with other members of the family. We were attempting
• 12:46
  to do some recording, and that may still occur. A couple of attempts
• 12:48
  we've had it didn't quite work out. Our communication was fine, email and
• 12:56
  messaging over quite a period of time. That's from twenty twenty two when I
• 13:03
  first started on this, and it went for probably a good twelve months or
• 13:09
  more. At a time i'd started to prepare some writing. Obviously, you're
• 13:15
  building up rapport and trust with people and that helps the whole process. I
• 13:22
  want to thank them for speaking up. That's their view that they've been quite
• 13:28
  for quite a long time. But there's another story going on here. So
• 13:31
  the story that the claims and the revelations that I've presented based on the information
• 13:37
  that they've provided, is that it was a setup. It was a planned
• 13:45
  what we'd call a clandestine secret operation to arrest I was all at that point,
• 13:50
  and there's three components that they provide information on that support that statement.
• 13:58
  The first is that Hellen Arkham is a prepared, planted, paid witness.
• 14:03
  She was to be there to watch the arrest of Oswald, not just to
• 14:09
  watch the arrest of somebody that was the arrest of Oswald. We'll get into
• 14:13
  this in a little bit, and this is where it was quite amazing she
• 14:18
  knew Oswald. I'll get into a little bit about how there's a gang there
• 14:22
  which involved her son, James and William, a street gang in Oakcliffe.
• 14:28
  So we've got Helen there as a planted, paid witness. The obvious thing
• 14:31
  I put in the next question with that is, well, if she's there
• 14:35
  as a play paid planner witness who else. The arrest that was being referred
• 14:41
  to that she was to witness related to the fact that the two Markham boys
• 14:50
  William James, had taken Oswald on a break and enter of a house.
• 14:54
  The gang, that's what they did around o Cliff. They're all youngish guy
• 15:00
  around the eighteen nineteen twenty. At this point in time, James Markham and
• 15:07
  William Markham had both spent time more than twelve months in prison for a range
• 15:13
  of different things. It was car related, theft, some forge, counterfeiting
• 15:18
  checks or something. I forget the full details. So they're out on probe.
• 15:24
  So the arrest of Oswald was a setup, so he wasn't forced to
• 15:31
  go to the break and ender. He went along with that according to the
• 15:35
  Markham people, but that was to set him up for a break and ender
• 15:41
  and theft charge for an arrest. The third, and this is probably just
• 15:46
  as important as Markham being a planted witness, was that there was a stage
• 15:50
  scene an event that happened at the corner of tenth and Mars Sailors. So
• 15:58
  you're talking maybe I forget maybe one hundred and fifty meters or something. A
• 16:02
  bit more west, sorry east from where the interception with Tippet occurs. Now,
• 16:12
  if you read, if you go all the way back to Harrison Livingston's
• 16:15
  books, you'll see that there was reports of a disturbance in that area of
• 16:22
  Oakcliffe, and some people were certainly saying things like, if you want to
• 16:29
  get to the bottom of the whole Tippet and Oswald and all that at the
• 16:33
  Tippet scene, you need to explore and find out what happened about this event,
• 16:40
  disturbance, dispute, whatever it was. Now, I've put some information
• 16:45
  in the article that refers to some other research that Professor Pulti and Brownlow put
• 16:49
  in, but I won't get into that. That's their research. The Markham
• 16:56
  family were the opinion that some of the other members of the gang may have
• 17:03
  been involved in that scene. The scene, as it has been explained,
• 17:12
  involved stabbing. So there's some men and there's some sort of an incident,
• 17:18
  and this scene has occurred, a disturbance, and this is supposed to have
• 17:23
  occurred shortly after Oswald has been dropped off at the corner of tenth and Marsalis
• 17:30
  by car. In other words, he didn't walk as per the official version,
• 17:33
  from the Warrant Commission. He was taken to that position and told to
• 17:41
  walk now. Again, Brownow and Pulti have done some work and there were
• 17:47
  reports in again some of the research material from other writers about a certain Max
• 17:52
  Long who lived down that street and that was possibly where Oswald was being told
• 17:59
  to walk to. So that's the three events that the family has explained.
• 18:03
  And interestingly enough, some of these events are mentioned by other researchers, so
• 18:11
  I think some of those other researchers had come across some stuff that was but
• 18:15
  didn't didn't get any more information obviously to fully explore it. So the three
• 18:19
  events of the stage scene. Markham was a planned witness to observe the arrest,
• 18:23
  and the arrest was in relation to Oswald's breaking and he and theft in
• 18:30
  company of the two Markham boys. I also heard too that I'm not sure
• 18:37
  if it was referring to the Markham Boys or if there were some other hoodlums
• 18:42
  about there in that in that area. But the shooting of what's his name
• 18:51
  got that worked at Johnny Reynolds, Carlit Warren Reynolds, yep. They was
• 18:56
  shot in the head in the when he was turning the lights off, and
• 19:02
  they thought it was Darryl Garner, but he ended up passing the Ladda detective
• 19:07
  test and everything else, and had witnesses where he was somewhere else. And
• 19:11
  I remember coming across something saying it might have been they might have been talking
• 19:15
  about the Markham the Markham boys who were like notorious troublemakers and they could have
• 19:22
  been trying to either rob him or who knows. I don't know. I
• 19:27
  just I've des heard that they could have possibly been involved in that as well.
• 19:33
  Yeah, I don't know that. The family didn't talk about that side.
• 19:37
  I was able to put a lot of after we've got the I got
• 19:41
  the initial information over a period of time. I was in trying to introduce
• 19:45
  names to see whether any of these names had had come out they heard,
• 19:51
  and they had heard of some and quite a lot of others they hadn't.
• 19:56
  So I think Reynolds, from what I remember, Bill Pollie had talked about
• 20:00
  him that he was actually I mit have mac piped and I think that had
• 20:07
  some discussion about what went down, but I didn't get anymore about that.
• 20:11
  Yeah, that guy was also a big follower of General Edwin Walker at the
• 20:18
  time. As well, a big extreme right wing guy. Yeah, I
• 20:22
  had read that. Yeah, Yeah, it's all very interesting because and I
• 20:26
  think so based on what Helen Markham said she saw, because I mean it
• 20:34
  seems like every tip of when this has you know, a differing a view
• 20:41
  of what they saw happen. And you know, some people saw two people.
• 20:45
  Some people saw somebody running in the opposite direction and getting in a car.
• 20:51
  Some people saw somebody not resembling Oswald. Some people saw people that they
• 20:55
  said it was Oswald, and like so, like you said, for more
• 21:02
  morekum standing to the other caddy corner the other side of the street, that's
• 21:06
  where Scoggin's taxi cab was parked. Correct, Yeah, he was on the
• 21:12
  corner of the near the Davis Girl's house, on the corner of tent.
• 21:17
  Now was he was he supposedly a real witness or or one of these was
• 21:22
  he in on the deal type of thing? Well, there's a number of
• 21:26
  witnesses. You've got Scollins, You've got TF Boley, you got Benavides.
• 21:30
  I spent a fevot in the article about Benavites to say what the hell was
• 21:36
  going on with that? And the absolutely conflicting kind of commentary by Lavelle and
• 21:41
  Graves. Interestingly that levell and Graves happened to beet the two guys walking Oswald
• 21:45
  out in the basement on Sunday, but they did a lot of interviews.
• 21:51
  Lavelle in particular interview a lot of these folk early on in the piece.
• 21:56
  I believe there's some evident of other planted witnesses or prepared witnesses. Certainly you've
• 22:06
  got witnesses then being coerced. And I think that's the important thing that can
• 22:10
  probably talk about here is that what the Markham people have said is that when
• 22:17
  Helen mark when this all happened, Helen Markham told the police at the scene
• 22:22
  that it was Oswald. I can get into a little bit about what she
• 22:27
  saw. It might be best to talk about what she saw, and then
• 22:30
  I can sort of talk a little bit about that if you're happy to do
• 22:33
  that, Yeah, definitely sure. All right, So the events and I've
• 22:41
  documented these in the article and what we're saying, as we've pointed out.
• 22:52
  So there, I'm just going to try and put these glasses on with the
• 22:56
  headphones. So Tip is in his police car. He's coming from the west
• 23:04
  heading in an easterly direction, Oswald who is walking slowly from Marsilas, and
• 23:14
  tenth in the easterly direction in the westerly election. Now, a short conversation
• 23:23
  did occur between Oswald and tip It. You then got through the passenger window,
• 23:32
  right through a passenger windows, which I have to ask you, does
• 23:37
  that indicate to you that they knew each other? That? I mean,
• 23:45
  obviously tipp It wasn't a scared or intimidated by Oswalt, but by his actions
• 23:56
  if you believe the rolling down his window and Oswald putting his hands on the
• 24:02
  windows sell and leaning in and talking to Tippett, and then him getting out
• 24:07
  without us gotten drawn and all that. What are your thoughts on that?
• 24:15
  Look, it could be they could have known each other. I don't know.
• 24:18
  This is certainly some researchers are out there suggesting they did. If you
• 24:26
  just touch on the tip It got out of his car and hadn't drawned his
• 24:29
  gun. Well, when they actually when Temple was shot and his body was
• 24:33
  on the ground, his gun was out of his hole, his gun was
• 24:36
  underneath his body, and that was in a couple of different witnesses stadiums.
• 24:38
  So he had drawn his gun but I'll just go through basically what they're saying,
• 24:45
  and this is Laverne and the others saying, this is what Helen is
• 24:48
  saying. It's not just their interpretation, this is what This is what Helen
• 24:52
  is saying she has seen and what she's told police at the scene that at
• 24:59
  the time that Oswald is talking to Tippett, another man comes out from between
• 25:06
  the second and third house and walks up behind Oswald. And this is a
• 25:11
  guy that's about eighteen. He's a battalion extraction and just stood behind Oswald.
• 25:18
  Now, the area that he'd come from is where Helen saw a second marked
• 25:26
  police car. And did that person come specifically out of that car. They
• 25:32
  don't know. They're just saying that's the area that he came from. We
• 25:34
  make an assumption that he has come from that car. He's just a young
• 25:41
  guy wearing the kind of you know, she described it sort of as the
• 25:47
  Fonsie type and gear. You know, from the day. He's just kind
• 25:52
  of hung around. You've then got off certificate getting out of the car.
• 25:59
  He's come around to the front of the car and then according to Helen,
• 26:03
  there was actually a brief scuffle. So is that Tippett trying to arrest him.
• 26:10
  I presume so, and then the shooting occurs, and that's Oswald shooting.
• 26:15
  According to Helen, the other man that was behind Oswald had a gun
• 26:23
  out, but she didn't think he fired. But we don't know whether he
• 26:29
  did or he didn't. But but Helen's view was she didn't think he fired,
• 26:33
  but she might be wrong on that. The Italian man moved away westbound
• 26:40
  a little bit quickly, more quickly than what Oswald did. And then according
• 26:48
  to them, according to Helen, the Italian man's gone across the vacant lot,
• 26:55
  and that then leads to the house down on the corner of the vacant
• 26:59
  lot. The little alley that runs off Patton Street runs in the westerly direction
• 27:06
  towards the back of the church, and Oswald's gone down Patton Street. At
• 27:14
  that point, the older of the two policemen had come out from the police
• 27:21
  car. The second police car checked on Tippet and went back. You've then
• 27:29
  got the younger policeman, according to Helen, was stayed at the car,
• 27:33
  was involved in using some sort of radio and was writing something down. And
• 27:41
  then that car left the area. Those two police did come back to the
• 27:51
  area some time later. Now where I'm assuming with that that it means when
• 27:56
  the other police officially arrived on the scene. So Helen told the police right
• 28:06
  there and then at the scene Oswle's name, that she knew Oswald, that
• 28:11
  there was a second police car in the alley, and that there was a
• 28:15
  second man, the Italian man. Now, she did apparently recognize the Italian
• 28:22
  man. She didn't know him, but she recognized him, and it was
• 28:25
  either he lived in the area or he had family in the area. But
• 28:30
  this is not Larry Crawford. No, they've never mentioned that name. And
• 28:36
  I ultimately did put them that name, but they didn't recognize it. Okay,
• 28:41
  but they've really not said any names here. They've just described what Helen
• 28:45
  said, So I don't necessarily think that they knew a lot of even Helen
• 28:51
  knew a lot of the actual names. I don't know, or if she
• 28:52
  did, she didn't say so. But he was Italian looking, Italian looking,
• 29:00
  But they did then Mike reference to he was connected to this gang out
• 29:06
  of Little Italy West Dallas. Yeah, you guys might know what that all
• 29:11
  means. It's a bit kind of almost like mafia esque type thing, like,
• 29:17
  you know, if you're talking about you know, the Coast of Oster,
• 29:22
  you know, like you think Jack Ruby is connected to the mafia.
• 29:25
  You know, these might be like some of some of the people like that's
• 29:29
  tough guys, you know that, you know, kind of go around rough
• 29:32
  people up for money or break people's kneecaps or whatever they're doing. Yeah,
• 29:37
  yeah, and I am an Italian. I'm sorry, I'm an Italian from
• 29:44
  New York and uh, I have quite the familiar familiarity with the mafia and
• 29:51
  it's UH codes and their rules and it's it's very a complicated and I think
• 30:03
  that it would be a a young Italian man would be would have to be
• 30:18
  really connected to be to have participation in this plot. And yeah, well
• 30:30
  who knows. She just said he looked Italian, you know, and she
• 30:33
  might have might have known him. But yeah, when you mentioned this guy
• 30:37
  standing behind Oswald and could possibly have had a gun, you know, if
• 30:41
  if Pippet and Oswald were kind of wrestling about or Tip is trying to arrest
• 30:48
  Oswald and this other guy shoots him and then that kind of and then he
• 30:53
  starts to go away faster than Oswald. Oswald, Oh, my god,
• 30:57
  this guy just shot this guy this carp and he's trying to arrest me,
• 31:00
  and you know, I need to get out of here type of thing.
• 31:04
  Yeah, look that as soon as you've got all this information, you can
• 31:11
  speculate and go what what's happening? And I really don't know. I don't
• 31:15
  think the family does. I don't think everything that Helen has, you know,
• 31:21
  passed on or there's bits there that Helen didn't know. You know,
• 31:26
  we don't know. I think that you think she was do you think she
• 31:30
  was compromised in some way? Well, just just I'll touch on that.
• 31:37
  The Italian guy. If you look at the article, you'll see that FBI
• 31:42
  agent bard Odum does a report two hours probably about two hours less than that,
• 31:48
  sorry, for about an hour or so after she's been at the police
• 31:51
  station, because it's before she does the lineup with Oswald, and he writes
• 31:56
  a report and you can see in there it doesn't say Italian, but it
• 32:00
  just says a young man eighteen and then a description which I've put in the
• 32:05
  article, and that was not a description of Oswald. And the Warrent Commission
• 32:10
  went to town on Ellen Markham, trying to get her to say, I
• 32:15
  never told bart Adam that. I would have thought the logical thing would be
• 32:20
  to ask bart Adam, why did you write that in a report? If
• 32:22
  you're listening to Helen Markham described this guy as an eighteen year old with a
• 32:28
  dark jacket, et cetera, et cetera. Two different people. But going
• 32:32
  back to Helen Markham, what you've got here is my understanding. The way
• 32:39
  I'm viewing all this now is quite clearly it's a conspiracy to set up and
• 32:45
  intercept and capture Oswle. Now where they going to arrest him and put him
• 32:49
  in jail or kill him? You've got a choice. The Helen Markham very
• 32:57
  quickly, after explaining at the scene what she was saying, what she saw,
• 33:01
  she was shut down, she was controlled. She was threatened very early
• 33:06
  in the piece. She then eventually went to give her evidence. There's a
• 33:15
  very good phone call you can hear of her with Mark Lane prior to giving
• 33:17
  testimony the Warren Commission. But that threatening stayed for quite a while. Now
• 33:24
  after the threatening, that wasn't the only inducement they had for Helen. They
• 33:29
  actually paid her money and I've put that in the article. The family indicated
• 33:32
  that's what happened. She was paid thousands of dollars on numerous several occasions.
• 33:38
  But the threats were pretty clear because you've also got some researchers Vince Solandria Feldman
• 33:46
  and some others that visited Dallas and sixty four. They went knocking on Ala
• 33:52
  Markham's door with Marguerite Boswell, excuse me, have a drink of water.
• 33:59
  But do we know who who was peeing Helen Markham? Did we know that?
• 34:05
  No, the excuse me, the the obvious inferences. It's coming from
• 34:14
  either cutouts or authorities, exactly that process. The one thing they did say
• 34:20
  was that Helen didn't really talk much after the Washington trip. She didn't say
• 34:22
  much about that trip or much after that. So it's like she realized the
• 34:30
  threats and what you know, they've either reiterated her compliance. The family has
• 34:37
  said that the planning for all of this interception of Oswald involved the FBI,
• 34:45
  who Helen used to referred to still as a g man, the Dallas authority,
• 34:50
  Dallas Police. You have Jack Ruby, you have Floyd Hamilton and I
• 34:55
  can touch on him in a minute, and James Markham, who's Helen's son,
• 35:01
  as the leader of that little Oakliffe Street gang. Yes, and I
• 35:07
  wanted to actually follow up on something that Rob just brought up recently in terms
• 35:15
  of, you know, was Helen Markham compromise in any way And if you
• 35:22
  consider her, you know, two oldest sons being in jail for an extended
• 35:30
  period of time, you could definitely envision a scenario where they could leverage her.
• 35:37
  Right, That's not out of the realm of possibilities in my mind at
• 35:42
  least. Yeah. Look, and I've read material on that. In fact,
• 35:45
  there's another very good Australian researcher down there that's got an article that really
• 35:51
  talks along those possible lines of the Markham involvement. As in the Markham Boys
• 35:57
  involvement. As I said earlier on when we start out of the interview,
• 36:00
  the family did believe that that gang had something else to do with the planning.
• 36:07
  Now I've got a list of gang members that have been given to me.
• 36:13
  I've put three in the book. I'm not putting the others in there
• 36:15
  because I'm hoping the families might want to make contact or others can make contact
• 36:21
  with them. But the three that we're talking there is Jimmy Burt, William
• 36:25
  Smith and William Smith. The two William Smith Read was Williams one of his
• 36:31
  best friends and Read's younger brother. So againness and witness to the Tippet shooting
• 36:39
  too. These these three guys are all just up on the corner of I
• 36:46
  forget the street now, but they Marcel's or and I think you mentioned in
• 36:52
  the article that one or a couple of them testified to the War Commission too.
• 37:00
  Yeah, William Smith because Helen Mark And I think actually mentioned his name.
• 37:05
  That's how they came to bring him into because she said that she spoke
• 37:09
  with him at the scene I think at the Tippet scene, and he supposedly
• 37:13
  went off with Jimmy Bird to have a look for the where the guy had
• 37:17
  gone or something, or rather down the alley. But these three guys,
• 37:22
  according to you know, their statements and whatever, are there only about one
• 37:27
  hundred yards away, up on the corner of tenth and just trying to think
• 37:30
  of the name of that street back east before you get to Mars, Saylas
• 37:39
  Crawford. I'm not sure. Yes, yes, it is CR A w
• 37:45
  F or A D. Because when I was reading the article, I was
• 37:47
  like, is this Crawford or Crawford, So, yes, that it was
• 37:52
  Crawford. M Yeah, there they're there at the scene. Now where they
• 38:04
  did they have something to do with the staged event, I don't know,
• 38:08
  but it's quite unusual that this has happened to be there at that time,
• 38:14
  and I think it's also Red Smith is one of the ones that gives a
• 38:17
  statement that he observed Oswald coming from that direction and heading west on tenth.
• 38:24
  So the other thing that I would put in there that going back to hell
• 38:28
  marks information, Oswill was definitely coming from the Marsalis direction. He was not
• 38:34
  coming from the other side of pattern heading east. He was heading in a
• 38:40
  westerly direction. On the football it's on sidewalks. Sorry, yeah, so
• 38:51
  he was essentially heading away from his room to cover that towards it. Well,
• 38:59
  the rooming house a backley, it sits a different direction, but if
• 39:04
  you go back up tenth Street to mars Saylers, that's the direction he was
• 39:08
  coming from. So to get from the brooming house to pick him up and
• 39:13
  drop him off, I mean the picking up. I mean that that information
• 39:15
  specifically come from Pultie and Brownlow that they've talked to Harry Elson. Well,
• 39:21
  Bill, Mike Browns, and other police. And that's the presentation that Mike
• 39:29
  and Bill doing their YouTube interviews. You can see where they're talking about Oswall
• 39:37
  being picked up. Now that all kinds of dove tails in. I suppose
• 39:39
  with Earlin Roberts that talks about the police card to the horn, well,
• 39:45
  if you just draw a little bow from there, suggests that the car went
• 39:51
  back around and then stopped and picked him up because Oswood was last seen by
• 39:53
  Roberts standing at the bus the bus stop, not heading at the front door
• 40:00
  to the left up Bickley seth on Beckley, he's going the other way.
• 40:06
  Yeah, yeah, And I was interested to hearing your thoughts on Uh so
• 40:16
  the scuffle that happened between Oswalt and tipp It apparently I hadn't heard that.
• 40:29
  But was that because I mean I could have easily not uh you know,
• 40:37
  I been aware of it. But why would that scuffle have happened if Oswalt
• 40:45
  knew he was a patsy? If if they were talking kind of you know,
• 40:50
  friendly right leaning into his car talking, then he got out and we
• 40:55
  all know the gun was found under tipp It. He was I guess a
• 41:00
  little slow on the draw and uh, but you do believe Oswalt did shoot
• 41:09
  tip it. Yes, yes, I do, based on what I've now
• 41:17
  become aware of what I've been told. As far as the fight, there's
• 41:23
  not I don't have any more details on it. When I say a fight
• 41:25
  or a scuffle or whatever, there's some sort of interaction, physical interaction.
• 41:34
  And again I've put a couple of links in the article that you can go
• 41:37
  and have a look. You know, ron Ryland from I think of betray
• 41:42
  at TV station he was with, talks about the observations. You know,
• 41:45
  he's on the TV an hour after, you know, two hours after this
• 41:50
  event, talking about what the witness, which is Helen Markham, said she
• 41:55
  saw, and he refers to it even there about this man went up and
• 42:00
  stopped the officer. Well, what's what's how do you explain what that is
• 42:07
  all about? This is ron Ryland hearing talk about it. So there's some
• 42:13
  things in there that give you an indication as to what that was all about.
• 42:17
  Was that Tippett just saying to Oz will come here, and he was
• 42:22
  planning to arrest him, turn him around, handcuff him. I've got no
• 42:25
  idea, but I think other thing that we've got here talks about Nola Markham
• 42:30
  being at that caddy corner. Oh. Sorry, yeah, we got a
• 42:37
  little bit of a delay here. Yeah, so it's caused a little bit
• 42:39
  of difficulty. I'm just going to say we were talking about Helen Markham being
• 42:44
  at that. Yeah, that's okay. I'm just going to say that there
• 42:50
  was you know, we talked earlier about Helen being at the caddy corner,
• 42:52
  which is on the western side of tenth and pattern. Well, the family
• 42:57
  indicated she was actually closer to the east of that, in fact, not
• 43:01
  that far away from where this occurred. So they're saying she wasn't at that
• 43:07
  corner that she's officially supposed to be at. She was to the east of
• 43:12
  that, in the front yard or on the side path or wherever, but
• 43:17
  somewhere a bit closer. And it's actually interesting when you look at her testimony.
• 43:22
  They walk her down the street and say, well, you left your
• 43:24
  house at ninth Street, and they ask you which way did you walk,
• 43:30
  like, which side of the road did you walk down? She actually says
• 43:35
  the left, which would be the east side of that street, and then
• 43:40
  he corrects and says, you mean the right. She says right, I
• 43:44
  mean the whole, the whole, everything you touched with this thing is very,
• 43:49
  very very strange. But even that questioning which way, which, which
• 43:53
  side of the road did you walk down? Yeah, but of course you're
• 43:57
  going right right, stay, it's a word a word puzzle, right like
• 44:05
  you get interpreted anyway. There was lots of word puzzles in that Warren Commission.
• 44:15
  M h Ain't that the truth? So continue, sir, So,
• 44:24
  Look, that's sort of the scenario that's been I've put in the article.
• 44:32
  This is what I've gleamed from the information that I've talked with people. I
• 44:38
  think that another just important thing to put in here is about the second police
• 44:43
  car. Now, this is the one that's in the driveway between the two
• 44:46
  houses at four o four and four ten that Helen said two policemen were at.
• 44:52
  One policeman came out to Tippet, went back to the car, the
• 44:55
  car then left. The car reappeared sometime later. There's two things to put
• 45:01
  in here. One is that Helen is saying that there was at the scene
• 45:07
  presented and in her view, it was presented by the younger of the two
• 45:12
  policemen who introduced it. For what of a better term. Now, I
• 45:15
  don't have any more information about that. We know the story about the Watts,
• 45:20
  the Markham family of saying that. Helen said that while it was introduced
• 45:23
  by that new second policeman. Now, does that give you a scenario that
• 45:29
  someone was going to be taken out and they had to make sure he had
• 45:31
  some idea on him that day, because you don't know what someone's got in
• 45:35
  the back pocket. I don't know. The other important thing here I think
• 45:38
  is about the second police car is that there are other coroborating witnesses. Besides
• 45:44
  Helen Markham has never said any of this stuff previously. Remember you said you
• 45:47
  haven't read about the fight. Well, it hasn't been out there. No
• 45:51
  one else has put anything out there about some fight or scuffle between Tip and
• 45:54
  Oswell, this is the first time it's been explained the situation with the second
• 46:02
  police car. As you have other witnesses, You've got the Davis girls.
• 46:06
  Virginia she's only sixteen, and she very clearly described the shooting. Looked out
• 46:10
  to see Oswald running down the side of the house, ejecting shells or whatever,
• 46:15
  and then the phone call was made and very quickly she said, she
• 46:19
  runs outside and I think it was Balin, I'm not sure, and said,
• 46:22
  what did you see then? And she talked about the police were already
• 46:24
  there. Now does he explore any line of inquiry about the police were already
• 46:30
  there? No, No, he starts going about something completely different. But
• 46:35
  see story there about the police car. Besides Virginia Davis, is you have
• 46:39
  Sam Ginyard told this early on in the piece to Mike Brownlow in the seventies,
• 46:45
  Sam was working at ted Callaway African American. But the number one is
• 46:52
  a person that talked about the second police car is Doris Halen. And Doris
• 46:58
  Helene is at the scene. And I've spoken to Lad Helend And there's another
• 47:04
  researcher that did some articles about the second police car, and I've put that
• 47:09
  in the article to indicate that that information and that article by that researcher is
• 47:15
  wrong, and that Doris Helene was present. She not only saw the second
• 47:23
  police car through the driveway, drive through the driveway, she saw Oswald,
• 47:28
  That's what her words were. And she talked about a man going across the
• 47:35
  vacant lot. So we have got confirmation from a number of just just on
• 47:44
  that by the way. When the Helands spoke to the other researcher, they
• 47:51
  explained to the other researcher about the fact that Doris was there and I had
• 47:55
  seen the second police car and Oswald running down the street. That other researcher
• 48:01
  has failed to put that in his paper, and that's pretty concerning. But
• 48:07
  I printed in that article precisely the words that Lad's sister told Lad, and
• 48:16
  that's what she told the other researcher. And it's quite clear we've got a
• 48:20
  number of sources talking about this second police car. That second police car didn't
• 48:25
  the police officers didn't respond to Oswald, the shooting didn't take off in chase.
• 48:31
  They came out and then drove off in the car. So that certainly,
• 48:37
  when you add that and try and provide a logical or reasonable explanation for
• 48:43
  that, there is none other than it's a conspiracy. It's a setup,
• 48:46
  and that's the entrapment that was happening to capture Oswald. If this had gone
• 48:53
  the way it might have been planned, let's say Oswald resisted in an opposite
• 48:58
  tipe shot Hi himself defense, all of this information may have come out.
• 49:04
  That second police car may have been there to provide some inverted invert commas cooperation
• 49:08
  of Oswald sort of scuffling shooting him in self defense. I don't know,
• 49:14
  that's the speculation bit. We might have heard about this arrest charge on Oswald
• 49:21
  in relation to theft and break and end it, and we may have heard
• 49:24
  about the stage scene that occurred at tented Mars Salis the stage scene the scenario
• 49:32
  there. The family confirmed that was to have some justification for Officer Tippet to
• 49:37
  be in the area where he was. He's coming from the east, heading
• 49:43
  in a westerly direction towards Mars Sailors and Oswald is coming from Mars Sailors.
• 49:50
  I could probably touch on here we mentioned before we went on on on air.
• 49:55
  I've prepared, had a bit of information that is scenario as I see
• 50:00
  it sort of unfolding, and I've been able to research some of the Dallas
• 50:06
  Police radio transcripts and logs, and I can try and put that into a
• 50:10
  bit of context if you want. Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, they're very
• 50:16
  interesting. There's police logs. I'll just flick over to this document. Yeah,
• 50:23
  yeah, very interesting. So what I'll do is I just kind of
• 50:28
  read this out and it sort of flows I think reasonably well. But this
• 50:31
  is a brief examination of some of the police radio traffic around the time of
• 50:36
  the tip of shooting. There are numerous examples of suspicious activity identified by researchers
• 50:39
  over the years. They've suggested there has been auderation, deletion, and addition
• 50:44
  of calls into the record. I agree with this. Let's have a look
• 50:47
  at some of the radio calls a load of the Markham family revelations. So
• 50:52
  twelve thirty President Kennedy is shot in Daily Plaza, the radio dispatches communications center
• 50:57
  alerts all police cars to Olmond. Houston police officers converge on the area.
• 51:01
  Then, with all the chaos and frantic communication going on, just fifteen minutes
• 51:06
  after kennedy shooting, at twelve forty five, Dallas Police radio dispatcher Murray Jackson,
• 51:10
  former partner Officer Tippett, ordered officer Tippet and Nelson, another former partner
• 51:15
  of Tippett into the central Oak Cliff area radio Colstein, seventy eight away from
• 51:21
  the normal patrol district. Jackson said he did this because he was aware he
• 51:24
  was draining the surrounding area of police resources. This sounds logical, except the
• 51:30
  same approach of relocating other offices is not taken by other experienced radio dispatches.
• 51:35
  Jackson had been working there for three days at this stage in the radio room,
• 51:38
  and pretty well no other officers north, south, east, or west
• 51:42
  or off Dealey Plaza are given similar orders to the one given to Tippett and
• 51:46
  Nelson. So why was Tippet and Nelson signaled out with this unique order?
• 51:51
  So what did officin Nelson do? All? According to the transcripts, he
• 51:54
  disobeyed that order and drove to Elm Street anyway and confirmed his location on the
• 51:59
  Police Police FBI submitted what was known as the Sawyer radio transcript of the Warren
• 52:06
  Commission in early sixty four. The Jackson twelve forty five radio transcript sorry that
• 52:13
  the Jackson twelve forty five order to Officer Tipper Nelson to go to Central Oakcliff
• 52:17
  was not included in the transcript. What an amazing omission. The order that
• 52:22
  is supposed to lead Officer Tibbot to be an acliff out of his normal patrol
• 52:25
  district where encountered Oswald is missing from the transcript. This led to suspicion that
• 52:30
  there never was such an order by Jackson and the tapes have been altered,
• 52:35
  and the twelve forty five order by Jackson was added in later suspicion. The
• 52:39
  FBI took possession of the police radio Dictor Belton tapes a few hours after the
• 52:44
  assassination, returned them several days later, so alteration was possible. The Dallas
• 52:50
  Police, with the lead agency in the Kennedy and Tibbet shooting, they laid
• 52:54
  charges against Oswell, gathered evidence and prepared an initial brief evidence for court,
• 53:00
  and should have mattained control of those tapes. Why was the FBI taking control
• 53:05
  of the tapes off the Dallas Police when we've got a court case preparation underway.
• 53:10
  And twelve fifty four, nine minutes after the last call to tipp It,
• 53:15
  Jackson called tip It again checked his location at a Clifton said, you
• 53:21
  will be at large for any emergency that comes in. Every time I read
• 53:25
  that, I just shake my head. This is an amazing comment by Jackson.
• 53:29
  It makes no operational sense or any sense at all. It's like saying,
• 53:32
  be a good policeman, stay alert and do your job. No other
• 53:36
  police get a similar message. I like, can I interrupt you there?
• 53:42
  Sir? What do you have what are your thoughts on the reports on tip
• 53:52
  It making the phone call from the record store, from him pulling over random
• 54:00
  cars or a car and then speeding off and being in a big rush and
• 54:07
  calling someone and not being not getting an answer, those type of type of
• 54:17
  consensus beliefs about what happened before the Tippet Slane. Yeah. Look, I
• 54:27
  think anybody that looks at all at the speed he was traveling at some occasions,
• 54:32
  then when he does the interception at tenth Strut, he's driving very slow.
• 54:37
  So to me, that's someone who was frantic searching for someone and things
• 54:43
  hadn't gone according to plan or there was a breakdown in communication, as you
• 54:46
  can have happened when you're doing surveillance or planned interceptions. So I don't really
• 54:52
  know that that is somebody that's frantic. It's not a case of someone on
• 54:57
  a routine, casual nothing happening patrol. What that. Yeah, it seemed
• 55:00
  to me like somebody looking for somebody, because Gavin, I know you've seen
• 55:07
  the photos of the Tippett murder scene, right, and there are several shots
• 55:14
  of Tippett's car and there's one from the sidewalk kind of shooting into Tippet's car
• 55:22
  from like the right rear door, and I swear to me it really looks
• 55:27
  like a portrait or drawing of a person, like on the dash, like
• 55:37
  on a clipboard mounted on the dash. I don't know if it's possibly could
• 55:42
  have been a picture of Oswald or a composite sketch of their suspect, you
• 55:47
  know, in the Kennedy murder, they're very vague, uh you know,
• 55:53
  suspect description that they had immediately after that from from and yeah, they're looking
• 56:00
  for a guy with you know, one hundred and sixty five one hundred fifty
• 56:05
  hundred and sixty pounds, brown hair, white guy type of thing, and
• 56:09
  maybe that's why they tipped it. Ultimately, Yeah, I've seen, I've
• 56:19
  seen you're talking about, and it does appear to be some sort of an
• 56:22
  image of a person according to Levelle, and I think Barnes maybe they said
• 56:29
  they didn't really investigate that there was nothing to see there, so there's really
• 56:35
  no way to explain what that was all about. A common a common excuse
• 56:40
  in the case. I think if it was supposed to be a picture of
• 56:46
  Oswald relevant to the assassination of Kennedy, well there's no way in the world
• 56:52
  that could be related to that, because they wouldn't have had time to either
• 56:57
  didn't even know it was osible at that stage, and be the one' had
• 57:00
  time to print it out and give it to Tippitt. He's already out and
• 57:02
  about. So it looks suspicious what it was about, don't they? If
• 57:07
  I just if I can continue on here, it gets interesting. So unlike
• 57:13
  the twelve forty five PM or given by Jackson, this comment makes its way
• 57:16
  into the Sawyer Warren Commission radio transcript. The comment created even more suspicion the
• 57:22
  tapes had been altered and that the be at large for any emergency message was
• 57:28
  also added to the tape. So was this an authentic message? If it
• 57:31
  was, was it the signal the tippet about the plan to intercept Oswald or
• 57:35
  with the twelve forty five and twelve to fifty four messages edited onto the tape
• 57:38
  later to make it look like Tippet was sent to the area on high alert
• 57:43
  for an emergency in the area. I think the latter. In the Sawyer
• 57:47
  Commission the transcript stated, this is the last radiator transmission between Tippet and the
• 57:53
  radio dispatcher. This statement is wrong, as we'll see that Jackson called Tippet
• 57:59
  once more at one O three and Tippett calls hisspatcher twice at one Oay,
• 58:05
  So why did the Dallas Police or FBI sawyer submission hide the fact there was
• 58:09
  more communication between more attempts between Jackson and Tippett. At one O three,
• 58:16
  nine minutes after that earlier call about to be at large, Jackson called Tippet
• 58:22
  again and asked his location. He gets no reply. Why has Jackson called
• 58:25
  tip It again? He has already established he was in Oakcliff. If that
• 58:30
  twelve to fifty four call was authentic, what is going What is he going
• 58:36
  to advise Tippet of or task him to do? Jackson, in a nineteen
• 58:39
  sixty seven TV interview with Eddie Barker It's on YouTube, said he called Tippet
• 58:45
  at this time because he was trying to keep track of Tippet in his mind.
• 58:50
  Okay, on what basis does he need to know that and other officers
• 58:54
  don't get the same type of calls. He's calling Tippitt apparently about that,
• 58:59
  but no one else. The call is suspicious? Is it possible there was
• 59:02
  actually some communication between the two officers, but has been deleted. Jackson is
• 59:07
  not called to give evidence to the Warren Commission. At one O eight,
• 59:12
  Tippett called the dispatcher twice, he gets no reply. Why has Tippitt called
• 59:16
  a dispatcher about five minutes after Jackson called him? What is he reporting or
• 59:21
  requesting? The Dallas Police SLASH FBI submitted their second police radio transcript to the
• 59:29
  Warren Commission in early nineteen sixty four. It was called Warren Commission seven oh
• 59:32
  five. The Jackson one O three pm call and both the Tippitt one oh
• 59:37
  eight PM calls are included in Warren Commission seven zero five. So why had
• 59:44
  the earliest Sawyer submission to the Warren Commission say there was no more transmission after
• 59:51
  the twelve fifty four calls by Jackson. In mid nineteen sixty four, the
• 59:54
  Dallas Police FBI submitted their third YEP third police radio tra nanscript to the Warren
• 1:00:00
  Commission was called c. Nineteen seventy four. In this third transcript, the
• 1:00:07
  Jackson one O three pm call is included, but the two one eight Tippet
• 1:00:12
  calls are no longer attributed to call sign seventy eight. They are now attributed
• 1:00:17
  to call sign fifty eight and then call sign four eighty eight, and they
• 1:00:22
  are unable to identify who these officers are. Sergeant Jim Bowles was in charge
• 1:00:29
  of the Dallas Police Communications room and was integral in the analysis of the tapes
• 1:00:34
  in preparation of transcripts under liaison with the FBI. He is on record that
• 1:00:38
  the WC seven A five calls at one O eight pm seventy eight, and
• 1:00:45
  he knew it was Tippit because he stated he knew tipp It. He recognized
• 1:00:50
  his voice, his tone, the infliction of the four syllables seventy eight.
• 1:00:57
  There's more. Vincent Bugliosi stated that on of all people stated that on March
• 1:01:01
  twenty five, two thousand and four, Jim Bowles played the police radio tape
• 1:01:07
  he had with him over the phone to Bibliosi. Bugliosi confirmed he heard seventy
• 1:01:13
  eight. So we need to ask why has WC seven O five transcript that
• 1:01:19
  stated there are two one O eight pm seventy eight calls by Tippet changed two
• 1:01:22
  months later in the C nineteen seventy four transcript to fifty eight and four eighty
• 1:01:28
  eight. Both transcripts are from the original tape and Dick deor Belt recordings and
• 1:01:32
  should be the same. This is very suspicious there it is to be an
• 1:01:36
  attempt to remove the fact that Tippitt called the radio dispatcher twice at one o
• 1:01:42
  eight pm, as confirmed by Bowls and BIBLIOSI now back to Jackson in his
• 1:01:46
  sixty seven TV interview. This part is very revealing. It's about a street
• 1:01:52
  disturbance and another call by Jackson to Tippett that is not in the transcripts.
• 1:01:59
  So this is what Jackson said, and this may relate to the stage scene
• 1:02:04
  disturbance at tenth and Mass Sailors Eddie Barker says, when did you realize he
• 1:02:08
  was dead? I'll just read out what Murray Jackson says, and then I'll
• 1:02:13
  give you an explanation of what I think is going on. Murray Jackson says,
• 1:02:16
  we had received a call from the citizen. They called us. By
• 1:02:20
  the way, you can see this on YouTube. That interview is still thefret.
• 1:02:24
  We received a call from the citizen. They called us in on the
• 1:02:27
  telephone, and the call sheet came to me. There was a disturbance in
• 1:02:30
  the street in the four hundred block of East tenth and I had called and
• 1:02:35
  I said seventy eight, and he didn't answer. And almost immediately to this,
• 1:02:39
  the citizen came in on a police radio and said, send me some
• 1:02:43
  help. There's been an officer shot out here. And knowing that JD was
• 1:02:45
  the only one that should have been in the Oatliff area, my reaction was
• 1:02:51
  to call seventy eight, and of course JD didn't answer, So we asked
• 1:02:54
  the citizen to look at the number of the side of the car. This
• 1:02:57
  was the equipment number of the determined which patrol car was to be on it
• 1:03:00
  to sign district. They said it was number ten. And since I had
• 1:03:02
  worked with jad in that particular car, well, I determined to myself with
• 1:03:07
  him not answering, and the equipment number this was off the Tippet. So
• 1:03:12
  there's a few things to unpack here, things that don't make sense. Jackson
• 1:03:15
  said in this interview that he called Tippett to ask him where his location was
• 1:03:21
  and got no reply. This would have been the one three pm call.
• 1:03:25
  Now. Jackson said that he called Tippett again and the reason he called him
• 1:03:31
  was about a disturbance phone in by a citizen. He said that he had
• 1:03:36
  the call sheet about the disturbance in front of him. The call sheet is
• 1:03:38
  completed by the police emergency call phone operator who sits in the radio room next
• 1:03:43
  to the dispatches. So the normal procedure in this process Jackson would have been
• 1:03:47
  ordered would have ordered Tippet to investigate the disturbance and report back. Jackson said
• 1:03:52
  Tippet didn't answer the call when he tried to raise him. This call by
• 1:03:57
  Jackson is not recorded in any of the three rates. Transcript submitted to the
• 1:04:00
  Warren Commission. Why its omission is suspicious. Jackson stated the call from the
• 1:04:06
  public was about a disturbance. It's quite reasonable to conclude that a member of
• 1:04:11
  the public who hears gunshots in the street and calls the police emergency number would
• 1:04:15
  call it as I heard gun shots. The police phone operator would write down
• 1:04:20
  gun shots on the call sheet. So the question here is is this citizen
• 1:04:25
  call actually about a disturbance in Oakcliffe and was not actually about the gunshots at
• 1:04:31
  the Tippets scene. After Balley called in the tip shooting on Tippet's police radio,
• 1:04:38
  Jackson called call signed seventy eight three times before Bally confirmed it was police
• 1:04:43
  can't nunber ten. How did Jackson know immediately was Tippitt who had been shot?
• 1:04:47
  Jackson stated he called seventy eight because he knew JD was the only police
• 1:04:51
  officer who would have been in Oakcliffe. This does not make sense, as
• 1:04:56
  he has dispatched Nelson to Oakcliffe earlier and in his mind must have be he
• 1:05:00
  was there and Officer Mental, who was the actual officer assigned in the Aacliff
• 1:05:03
  district, seventy eight was in the area to Jackson called Tippet because he had
• 1:05:08
  already tasked him to investigate a disturbance and knew exactly where he was on tent.
• 1:05:13
  But this communication has been removed from the tapes. Jackson distinctly recalled that
• 1:05:17
  he asked the citizen to look at the number of the side of the police
• 1:05:19
  car. He said that this would be the equipment number that determined which patrol
• 1:05:24
  car was in each district. The citizen apparently replied number ten. The problem
• 1:05:28
  here is that there is no record of Jackson asking that question of the citizen.
• 1:05:32
  None of the transcripts or the audio tapes, and they're on YouTube or
• 1:05:36
  of some of them. Recalled Jackson's request to the citizen to check out the
• 1:05:40
  car for a number Murray Jackson's own words, calling the question of the authenticity
• 1:05:45
  of the tapes. Alterations, additions and the lesions have occurred. In my
• 1:05:47
  opinion, there are several critical conversations missing, and the question is why.
• 1:05:55
  Okay, So let's try and put all this into some sort of context and
• 1:05:57
  explain what's possibly going on here. Going on here the Markham family information reflects
• 1:06:02
  conspiracy and cover up by the police. It has suggested the police intercepted Oswald
• 1:06:08
  and the planned clandestine operation. It was not a coincidence the tippot on the
• 1:06:11
  outside of his normal district stopped Ozwald on Tenth Street. If we overlay the
• 1:06:15
  Markham information claims onto this record of radio communications and the numerous suspicions on suspicious
• 1:06:21
  goings on and just discuss we can consider it a very likely scenario. The
• 1:06:27
  Markham claims. We've already talked about the positioning of the plan of witness of
• 1:06:31
  the arrest and the stage scene. So the trap set for Oswald of Tenth
• 1:06:35
  Street, involving Dallas police and others could go something like this. Remember that
• 1:06:40
  some communication I've been deleted. It will change from the transcripts the twelve to
• 1:06:44
  fifty four call by Jackson. The tippett, if it was authentic, was
• 1:06:46
  a signal of the plan operation Oswald was on track and ozroute to a cliff.
• 1:06:53
  Oswald then leaves his boarding house a few minutes after warning. He's driven
• 1:06:56
  to tenth and Mars Salis and starts walking tenth on Western tenth. We know
• 1:07:00
  he can't walk the distance from his rooming house to Tan Street and be there
• 1:07:03
  in time to be intercepted by Tippet. At about it one sixteen, which
• 1:07:08
  is the official version according to the Warren Commission, Excuse me. At one
• 1:07:13
  O three, Jackson actually called Tippet and directed him to investigate a disturbance at
• 1:07:16
  tenth and Mars Salors. The citizen called to police about a disturbance either happened
• 1:07:21
  or a prepared call. She was introduced into the dispatcher's desk and communicated to
• 1:07:26
  Tippet. Jackson may have also provided a tippot with a description of the man
• 1:07:30
  a scene leaving the area of the disturbance, walking west on tenth. This
• 1:07:35
  disturbance is the stage fight scene by orchestrated at tenth and Mars Sailors at one
• 1:07:42
  o eight pm Tippitt called dispatch twice and advice he was about to stop and
• 1:07:47
  interview a suspect who matched the description of the man from the disturbance, and
• 1:07:53
  he requested police back up. This brings a second police car to one on
• 1:07:57
  the driveway into the scene to arrest Oswald. Oswald shoots Tippet and flees.
• 1:08:02
  The Oswald arrest plan has failed and the cover up begins. TF Balley arrives
• 1:08:08
  on the scene and calls the shooting and on the police radio. Who looked
• 1:08:10
  at his watch in seventies half of David it was one ten. Yet the
• 1:08:13
  official time in the Warren Commission as for Bowlei call is eight minutes up later
• 1:08:18
  at one eight eight. There are numerous people who indicated the shooting was around
• 1:08:23
  one six to one o eight. That's Market Higgins, Bally and believe it
• 1:08:27
  or not. Ainsworth. The ambulance based at Jefferson Street on tenth quickly rushed
• 1:08:31
  to the Tippet scene, picked up Tippet and transferred him to the Methodist Hospital
• 1:08:36
  which is nearby it. From the time of the shooting to the time the
• 1:08:40
  ambulance responded to the scene, plays Tippet in the ambulance rushed into the Methods
• 1:08:44
  Hospital about six or seven minutes. For examined medical and police records related obs
• 1:08:48
  to its depth, we find he is recorded deadit Methodist Hospital at one fifteen.
• 1:08:54
  So we've got the Dulles County, Texas authorized permit for autopsy issued by
• 1:08:59
  Earl Rolls for Earl Rose. Sorry, and it's got place of death Methodist
• 1:09:02
  Hospital, time of death one fifteen, the certificate of death dated twenty ninth
• 1:09:08
  November. Time of death one fifteen. The police report by officers Davenport and
• 1:09:15
  Barden stated that doctor Richard Liquari pronounced tip of dead one fifteen at Methodist Hospital.
• 1:09:21
  So working backwards from one fifteen, the shooting is somewhere around one oh
• 1:09:27
  seven one oh eight somewhere. Remember all these clocks aren't synchronized. Now.
• 1:09:30
  The official time for the shooting as per the Warren A Mission. Sorry did
• 1:09:35
  I say warren A Mission? I meant to say the Warren Commission is one
• 1:09:40
  sixteen. So the tapes have to be ordered to cover up the conversations,
• 1:09:44
  activity and times which reflect a one I shooting, as Oswald can't get the
• 1:09:47
  tenth on foot by that time. He didn't walk to tenth, but they
• 1:09:51
  can't have him getting a left by others. That equals a conspiracy. So
• 1:09:56
  the official story is Oswald walked and they have to drop the shooting time.
• 1:10:00
  I'm out to about one sixteen. Boldly called it in probably about one ten,
• 1:10:04
  but they dropped that back to one. Ad Am, I must also
• 1:10:08
  remove any reference on the communications about the disturbance of tenth and Mars Salors called
• 1:10:12
  him by the citizen, the plane investigation of the disturbance by Tippet, the
• 1:10:15
  intended interception of Tippet of a suspect walking on the sidewalk, and the second
• 1:10:19
  police card backup who would have corroborated tippet version of events. The mark and
• 1:10:24
  revelations reflect a well planned interception of Oswell with stage events and plane and witness.
• 1:10:30
  Given these revelations, the scenario I have just outlined is very likely.
• 1:10:34
  It is a realistic interpretation what communications would have looked like if things had gone
• 1:10:40
  down as planned and tip It arrested or shot Oswald, and then there would
• 1:10:43
  have been what would appear as an authentic police radio record of events as part
• 1:10:46
  of the cover up when Oswald shot Tipper. The cover up had to make
• 1:10:50
  everything disappear and have it all appear as a coincidental interception of Oswald by Tippet
• 1:10:56
  about eight minutes later than actually occurred. In my opinion, they are significant
• 1:11:00
  problems of the radio calls time he's an events by the Warren Commission. The
• 1:11:03
  record is not credible. That simply does that add up given the mark and
• 1:11:06
  revelations and what we know of the radio calls of filled in some gaps with
• 1:11:11
  a likely script for what went down in the filed plan to arrest Oswald and
• 1:11:15
  Patsy and the subsequent cover up that occurred by police and authorities. Very interesting
• 1:11:27
  stuff, for sure. I always thought the you know, not only the
• 1:11:32
  conflicting statements of the witnesses, but the conflicting times of hip its supposed murder,
• 1:11:41
  you know, like you said, from anywhere from one of six as
• 1:11:43
  early as that to you know, as late as one eighteen. I didn't
• 1:11:46
  know Hugh Meansworth supported the one o six to one oh eight claim. That's
• 1:11:50
  interesting to know because yeah, that was an interview that you had with Shirley
• 1:11:56
  Martin, so again coming from pretty credible research. Yeah, you know,
• 1:12:00
  Oswald definitely wouldn't have had time to walk there by then no very interesting,
• 1:12:08
  you know. Yeah, I actually did my own personal experiment, not that
• 1:12:14
  this is completely relevant, but uh, I walked at a very high pace
• 1:12:23
  on a treadmill, and I completed a mile in about thirteen minutes, and
• 1:12:30
  that was like me, like really like four or five miles per hour.
• 1:12:35
  Like there was no way Oswald could have got there within a few within on
• 1:12:43
  foot a few minutes. So I have no doubt that the timeline on foot
• 1:12:47
  while he was observed waiting at a bus station. It's it doesn't match up.
• 1:12:56
  So did did mark Them ever say we mentioned because Oswald would have had
• 1:13:02
  to walk past her right on Tenth Street, did she ever mention seeing him
• 1:13:11
  and recognizing him before the tipping encounter? Well, they're on opposite side of
• 1:13:17
  the roads, but Oswald's not walking past her. Oswald's coming from Mars Sailors,
• 1:13:21
  so he's heading in a westerly direction. And Helen Markham, you know,
• 1:13:27
  the official version was that she was supposed to be on the corner of
• 1:13:30
  east North I think it is tenth and Paden. She's actually, according to
• 1:13:35
  the family, was actually closer west of sorry east of there up tenth Street,
• 1:13:42
  so closer to if she's at that caddy corner, she's about one hundred
• 1:13:45
  foot away from the tip of car. When you look at her very early
• 1:13:50
  statements, I think i'd have to check the record she actually I think she's
• 1:13:55
  talking to Mark Lane. I think she talked about fifty foot away. So
• 1:14:00
  again, there's a certainly a lot of reports of Oswald walking from the west
• 1:14:04
  in that direction. Yeah, and also putting her eyes her eyes as well,
• 1:14:14
  right as Oswalt's or whoever the shooter or of Tippett was pastor right,
• 1:14:25
  Yeah, Yeah, I mean that's what she said in her testimony. I
• 1:14:29
  don't think I actually got any more information about all that particular part of things.
• 1:14:34
  I mean, the other thing that's it's interesting with Markham is that Jack
• 1:14:40
  Ruby was at her place at about at the eat Well Cafe at about seven
• 1:14:43
  thirty that night looking for her. Why he's been involved, according to the
• 1:14:47
  family, with this this whole setup. So that's on record. Bill Poulty
• 1:14:54
  established that from talking to waitresses at the eat Well. We've also got so
• 1:15:03
  I lost track there was something else you'd said earlier there, Rob, I
• 1:15:06
  was going to mention, but I'll come back to me. Yeah, it's
• 1:15:11
  not out of the Sorry, yeah, go ahead. That was the other
• 1:15:15
  thing that was George Senator, I believe it. Or night on the morning
• 1:15:19
  that Ruby shoots old Well, George Senator's sitting in the Well cafe having a
• 1:15:25
  cup of coffee, just biting his time. So it was a very popular
• 1:15:28
  little part of town. I'll put in the article Hella Markham and her new
• 1:15:35
  husband Markham was her married name from earlier. They used to go to the
• 1:15:41
  Carousel Club. So there's a connection there with Ruby, there's no doubt about
• 1:15:45
  that. And Ruby is at the eat Well about seven point thirty on Friday
• 1:15:48
  night looking for her. She's not there, so he leaves. Oh yes,
• 1:15:56
  I was gonna say, it's not out of the royal possibility. Now,
• 1:15:58
  if Jack Ruby was in acting as a tough guy you know this this
• 1:16:02
  uh you know, and involved in some of the cedier side of things,
• 1:16:05
  like we all believe that he was, you know, as far as you
• 1:16:10
  know, maybe providing drugs or women to people on the side that you know,
• 1:16:17
  he could have been possibly been involved with running these uh these wayward use
• 1:16:24
  you know to uh either sell drugs for them or get weapons or money or
• 1:16:30
  anything like that. You know, as part of this gang, and they
• 1:16:32
  could have possibly either been directly reporting to Ruby or maybe indirectly, uh through
• 1:16:40
  some other cutout as well. It's not out of the Roman possibility there either,
• 1:16:44
  because I think didn't Jack Ruby live fairly close to Tinton Patent, what
• 1:16:50
  you know, like a couple of blocks past that. Yeah, I kind
• 1:16:56
  of I've seen the apartment book, but it's not that far away. I
• 1:17:02
  think it's south sort of east from there. I think from memory it's interestingly
• 1:17:09
  that the Markham brothers were living near on Lancaster in an apartment while Helen was
• 1:17:17
  at Ninth Street, and that apartment block is not very far from Ruby's at
• 1:17:23
  all. And you've got a number of other people in that very location.
• 1:17:27
  Of course, you've got Kathy Kay's apartments not far away. I think William
• 1:17:30
  Skoggan's house is not far away. It's a very small little area in a
• 1:17:35
  lot of ways, and back in the day, everyone knew everybody. So
• 1:17:40
  yeah, look, I certainly believe that Ruby's hand is here. There was
• 1:17:44
  enough suspicion before the Markham revelation as far as I'm concerned, but this sort
• 1:17:47
  of just confirms as far as far as I can see, definitely, definitely.
• 1:17:55
  Well, yeah, I think you did a great job of painting this
• 1:18:00
  picture for us and revealing this new information from the Markham family. And I
• 1:18:05
  would direct everyone out there to go pick up Garrison the Journal, volume fifteen,
• 1:18:12
  where you can read the entire thing, because, like I said,
• 1:18:14
  we just scratched the surface here today. There's a lot of information there to
• 1:18:17
  be had and to be sorted through, so please check that out. Joe,
• 1:18:25
  do you have any final comments for you having I just want to commend
• 1:18:30
  you on a very thorough article. It was very detailed, very specific,
• 1:18:41
  and a very interesting read and kind of made me reevaluate some of the consensus
• 1:18:51
  in the community regarding Tippet and the situation regarding that thing. But I could
• 1:19:02
  be happier to have you on with us. And yeah, I suggest everyone
• 1:19:12
  go to Garrison online by the uh internet version like I did, and and
• 1:19:24
  read it and decide for yourself. Yeah. Look, thanks for that,
• 1:19:28
  and I'll be I'll be more than happy to come back and do another another
• 1:19:31
  round. I'll actually received some more information on a number of different things,
• 1:19:35
  and I'm pulled. I've pulled a lot of that together and I'll be able
• 1:19:40
  to share that soon, So I'll be happy to come back on your show
• 1:19:43
  and release that if you wanted to. Just on one of the things that
• 1:19:45
  you mentioned there, the thing with the family that's spoken up. I was
• 1:19:53
  very careful being formally, you know, law enforcement officer in trying to make
• 1:19:58
  sure when you're talking to someone you get clarity about where this is coming from
• 1:20:02
  the source. All of that. Now, that's a little bit difficult when
• 1:20:06
  you're talking about the length of period in time that we've got and family members
• 1:20:13
  are talking about things, some not talking at all, but some internally talking
• 1:20:16
  about different things. Certainly conversations that you know, Laverne, for example,
• 1:20:21
  had with Helen, or she's having conversations with her husband who she's married to
• 1:20:25
  for forty eight years, William, who was in the gang. So it's
• 1:20:30
  kind of like I was very careful to say, did Helen, what did
• 1:20:33
  Helen see? What did Helen say? So it was always couched in that
• 1:20:38
  term, so we were getting clarity as best they could. Recall. The
• 1:20:42
  other thing I just point out again, I wanted to thank the family for
• 1:20:46
  speaking up. They're being paid nothing for this informat. They're not being paid
• 1:20:51
  by anybody to come forward they're not spinning any narrative. They're just providing explanation
• 1:20:58
  that we hadn't heard of for about what the hell went on around this time.
• 1:21:03
  So they're not spinning a narrative. And certainly the journey of the Garrison
• 1:21:11
  Journal. Sure it's a publication that you have to go online access. I'm
• 1:21:15
  certainly not being paid anything for it. It's a free article. I'm just
• 1:21:18
  doing this as a researcher. So there's no the normal kind of you know,
• 1:21:23
  silly incentives that some people say. You know, people are doing things
• 1:21:26
  for various reasons. I think they've just decided it's time and there's more to
• 1:21:31
  the story. Helen was controlled, she was threatened, she was ultimately then
• 1:21:35
  paid, and she maintained that story right the way through. Yeah, and
• 1:21:40
  I have one last question for you, Gavin, and it relates to Helen
• 1:21:46
  Markham. Of course, and obviously her kids were in trouble, so she
• 1:21:55
  could be leveraged in a couple of different ways. But would people trust her
• 1:22:02
  to maintain this story right, this narrative that would implicate or you know,
• 1:22:15
  Oswald or anyone else whoever shot Tippet? And would she be trustable enough because
• 1:22:24
  a wise man. A teacher of mine once told me the likelihood of an
• 1:22:29
  intelligence operation being blown is inversely proportional to the number of people involved in it.
• 1:22:36
  So would Helen Markham be trustworthy enough to be involved in an operation or
• 1:22:46
  was she just not aware? And that is faint. I think my reading
• 1:22:53
  of that is that she was arranged to witness and arrest. That is what
• 1:22:59
  the fat family is saying. She said that's what she thought was supposed to
• 1:23:02
  happen, and I'll put that in the article. She did not expect to
• 1:23:05
  see a shooting and did not expect to see Oswald shoot Tippet. So in
• 1:23:12
  that scenario, her being involved being told just be there, there'll be some
• 1:23:15
  sort of a police involvement with the citizen. Blah blah blah. Well,
• 1:23:19
  she did say she knew it was going to be Oswald and that's all she's
• 1:23:25
  being paid to do. I can see that happening, And you've got to
• 1:23:29
  use if you're going to set up that environment, that location you're on operational
• 1:23:32
  security, you have to have a plausible reason for her to be there.
• 1:23:36
  Well, she's coming on her way down to the bus stop. So that's
• 1:23:42
  the story that they've used all that scenario to make this happen. So as
• 1:23:47
  far as trustworthiness of Ella Markham, I've got no idea, but I could
• 1:23:53
  see them using locals. And that's when we get to Benevid's Scoggins, Davis
• 1:24:00
  Skills. You know, you talk about the David Skills Ruby's telephone number.
• 1:24:05
  Crayford, you know, had that in his diary in the Ruby's notebooks,
• 1:24:11
  but that telephone number was the David Skills house. So what's eleanor I think
• 1:24:15
  was the Jewish girl? What's that telephone number doing in Ruby's book as transcribed
• 1:24:21
  by Craford. And when Crayford was asked, some of the Warren Commission did
• 1:24:26
  feel something strange was going on because they said, isn't it a bit odd
• 1:24:29
  to have this odd inquiry about a job application appearing in his list of contact
• 1:24:34
  numbers? So every time you touch anything, you know, it just get
• 1:24:41
  more questions and a lot of credibility is missing from a lot of this information
• 1:24:48
  exactly. And that's why we're on episode number two hundred and seventy one and
• 1:24:51
  still counting Gavin. So we wanted to thank you so much for joining us
• 1:24:57
  day. You killed it a great episode and thank you so much again for
• 1:25:00
  for appearing here and sharing your information with our listeners. I think they're gonna
• 1:25:05
  get a lot out of this. And like I said, once again,
• 1:25:08
  the link will be in the description, uh where you can check out the
• 1:25:12
  full article and uh yeah, thank you again Gavin, and I'd love to
• 1:25:16
  have you back on soon when they get some more information and we look forward
• 1:25:21
  to talking to you again. Thank you, Gavin, love to come back,
• 1:25:28
  have a great rest of your day and sunny Australia. Yes, back
• 1:25:32
  to the future, sir, yeah Chames boys, all right serious, thank
• 1:25:39
  you, thank you all right,