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Coalition talks continue · Drive with John Perlman

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: John Perlman.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: On 702.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: 3 to 6 p.m.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Well, before we get into our next story, I just
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: have to say, and the nominees are in the category
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: of best. No, I can't really pull that off. But
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: in the category of best broadcast journalist, Alpha Ramoswana, alongside
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Tato Moloto, who I've just congratulated for his achievement. Well done, Alpha. Excellent,
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: excellent work over a year of sustained great reporting. You're
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: in the final five. And yeah, may the best EWN
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: person win. Because there are two of us. I'm not
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  Speaker 3: concerned about the other people. So, welcome. You've been talking
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: to people who are not quite winners, really, because if
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  Speaker 3: they were, they wouldn't be in Coalition Talks, but they are.
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  Speaker 3: Who have you been talking to? Tell us that first,
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  Speaker 3: and then I'm going to ask you about what sense
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  Speaker 3: you're getting of anything taking shape, if indeed they are.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: But take us through your diary so far.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Dr.
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  Speaker 4: John. So political parties have already started coalition negotiations, particularly
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  Speaker 4: for the three metros in Gauteng that were left hung
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  Speaker 4: after last week's local government election.
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  Speaker 1: I've been following up on them every morning.
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  Speaker 4: I think their meetings started at about 9am and just
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  Speaker 4: now at 3pm, I managed to speak with some of them.
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  Speaker 4: The coalition talks have indeed started. I did receive confirmation
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  Speaker 4: that Action SA is just waiting for a date for
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  Speaker 4: the Democratic Alliance so that they can sit down and
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  Speaker 4: formally have their conversations. But they've already met with the
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  Speaker 4: ANC to see if they can possibly work a coalition
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: arrangement out in some of the three metros. You would
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  Speaker 4: know that the DA is the leading party in Tswane,
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  Speaker 4: Johannesburg and Eguruleni, the number one, but they did not
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: obtain a 50% plus one majority. So the DA needs
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: a party, at least 16% in Tswane, at least 16%
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  Speaker 4: in Eguruleni, or Joburg, and at least 21% that they
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  Speaker 4: need in order to govern the three metros. So they
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: need parties that are going to boost them. So far,
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  Speaker 4: what we do know is that Action SA has met
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  Speaker 4: with the Economic Freedom Fighters. They've also met with the
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  Speaker 4: ANC to see if they can work a possible coalition out.
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  Speaker 4: It's not going to be easy for the DA to
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  Speaker 4: elect their own mayors because The ANC, Action SA, EFF,
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  Speaker 4: Patriotic Alliance, IFP coalition does have the numbers to.
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  Speaker 1: Obtain a 15% plus one majority.
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  Speaker 4: In the city of Tswane and in the city of Ekurule,
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  Speaker 4: it's a bit more difficult in the city of Johannesburg.
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  Speaker 4: But that coalition can work out if they find each other.
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  Speaker 4: So it's all up to the political parties and what
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  Speaker 4: they offer each other.
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  Speaker 2: What are you sensing as patterns?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously the action SA and the DA will meet.
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  Speaker 3: Is that because they need to be able to say
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  Speaker 3: they have met? There's certainly been no love lost in
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: the conversations between the two in the public space. Do
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  Speaker 3: you sense that those two are going in with significantly
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  Speaker 3: open minds and that we shouldn't write anything off or
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  Speaker 3: rule anything out?
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  Speaker 4: As much as the political parties can say that they
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  Speaker 4: have the residents' best interest at heart, history dictates that
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  Speaker 4: that might not be the case when it comes to
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  Speaker 4: coalition negotiations. It often has to do with what each
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  Speaker 4: political party is offering the other one. I mean, Action
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  Speaker 4: SAE has been quite clear that any coalition that they
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  Speaker 4: enter into for the city of Tswane should result in
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  Speaker 4: Nasi Pimoya being elected mayor once again. And if the
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  Speaker 4: DA is not offering Action SAE and Nasi Pimoya the
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: position of mayor again, ActionSA has made it clear that
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  Speaker 4: they are not going to participate in those coalition talks.
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  Speaker 4: If the ANC as well is not offering Nasipi Moya
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  Speaker 4: the mayor position in Swania, again, ActionSA has also said
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  Speaker 4: that they would pull out of those coalition talks. In Johannesburg, similarly,
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  Speaker 4: the ActionSA say they are more than willing to work
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  Speaker 4: with the DA just as long as Helen Ziller isn't
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  Speaker 4: in the picture, which is something I think the DA
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  Speaker 4: is not going to accept. So it's clearly what each
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  Speaker 4: party has to offer the other political party and really
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  Speaker 4: doesn't have much to do with the interests of the residents.
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  Speaker 4: So it will decide on the trading. The trading will
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  Speaker 4: decide where all of this will go. What is each
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  Speaker 4: party promising and offering the other political party?
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  Speaker 3: Have any of the people you've spoken to, Alpha, given
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  Speaker 3: you any indication as to what they regard as a successful,
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  Speaker 3: potentially successful coalition? Because certainly I had a conversation at
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  Speaker 3: the Results Operations Center, The Rock, with Helen Ziller last week,
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  Speaker 3: and she was very clear that you don't want a
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  Speaker 3: coalition that's made up of lots and lots and lots
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  Speaker 3: of different parties with smaller parties in that scenario, potentially
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  Speaker 3: carrying perhaps more weight than they should. I'm not sure
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  Speaker 3: if she made that final point, but that's certainly my interpretation.
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  Speaker 3: of the pitfalls of that kind of coalition. Has anyone said, listen,
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  Speaker 3: we'd prefer fewer and bigger parties, or is that not
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  Speaker 3: being articulated?
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  Speaker 4: The DA is certainly, um, would much rather have a
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  Speaker 4: coalition with fewer political parties, possibly to emulate the current
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  Speaker 4: coalition in the KZN provincial department. If you remember the
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  Speaker 4: KZN provincial, um, legislature was hung after the 2024 elections,
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  Speaker 4: the IFP, DA and ANC, uh, came together to form
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  Speaker 4: a coalition so that MK doesn't obtain power and the
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  Speaker 4: DA would much rather have a similar situation in any
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  Speaker 4: of the metros because they have said before that a
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  Speaker 4: coalition arrangement with many many political parties doesn't work for
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  Speaker 4: them because they each have you know a really small
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  Speaker 4: piece of the pie so really if the DA is
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  Speaker 4: able to offer an ANC something that would interest the
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  Speaker 4: ANC I do see the ANC accepting to work with
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  Speaker 4: the DA. They are already doing it at a national scale.
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  Speaker 4: They are already doing it in KwaZulu-Natal. Certainly, it is
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  Speaker 4: something they can do in any of the metros. Action
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  Speaker 4: SA as well. The problem with Action SA, they have
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  Speaker 4: specific people that they don't want to work with. They
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  Speaker 4: don't want a Helen Ziller in the picture if they're
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  Speaker 4: going to govern with the DA in Johannesburg. They want
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  Speaker 4: Nassi Pimoya in Tuanen. That's one of their demands. So
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  Speaker 4: with Action SA, it's more of personal figures that they've
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  Speaker 4: put up but they are also saying that they would
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  Speaker 4: need to agree on basic service delivery mandates and not
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  Speaker 4: have to argue about basic basic things in council all
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  Speaker 4: the time so the DA would much rather have a
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  Speaker 4: you know a very small coalition similar to the one
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  Speaker 4: that they have in KZN which if I'm correct is
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  Speaker 4: just four political parties.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting thing.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, when you say if they need, you know,
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  Speaker 3: everyone says they must agree on kind of the basics
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  Speaker 3: of service delivery, but you can always do that at
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  Speaker 3: an incredibly general level. I mean, nobody's going to say,
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  Speaker 3: if you vote for us, we're going to make sure
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  Speaker 3: you don't have water. Or, you know, we're going to
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  Speaker 3: be spending more time looking at what kind of company
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  Speaker 3: car we might get than actually checking on the maintenance.
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  Speaker 2: Of your electricity cables.
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  Speaker 3: But beyond those general agreements, we're going to run the
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  Speaker 3: places better than they are currently run. Is there anything
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  Speaker 3: specific around how you get good service delivery that they
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  Speaker 3: might differ on? Because it seems to me the conversation
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  Speaker 3: appears to be fairly vanilla when it comes to detail.
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  Speaker 4: Well, Action SA leader Herman Mashaba, if memory serves me,
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  Speaker 4: did mention a little bit the issue of the immigration
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  Speaker 4: policy's that they would need to agree on in some
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  Speaker 4: of the municipalities. Although that is something that is handled
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  Speaker 4: by national government and home affairs, they do say that
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  Speaker 4: the city entities, the metro police departments would need to
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  Speaker 4: work together in order to eradicate illegal immigration in some
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  Speaker 4: of these municipalities and the parties that they work with
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  Speaker 4: would need to be in agreement in that regard. But
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  Speaker 4: they also do have a different way of doing things.
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  Speaker 4: Some political parties believe that there are certain services that
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  Speaker 4: can be given to the private sector, while there are
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  Speaker 4: other political parties that believe that no, the state, the
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  Speaker 4: municipality should have the capacity to do this on its own.
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  Speaker 4: And I think that's some of the points of contention,
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  Speaker 4: whether we bring in state capacity or bring in someone
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  Speaker 4: private to give us services. So I think that's something
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  Speaker 4: they're talking about in the coalition talks as well.
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  Speaker 3: We're not hearing the MK party in the conversation so
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  Speaker 3: far that you're sharing with us. And I'm sure they'll
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  Speaker 3: have things to say. But one thing that would amplify
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  Speaker 3: The relatively small share they have in Gauteng compared to
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  Speaker 3: what they have in a place like Itagwini is if
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  Speaker 3: people are looking to make deals that have national implications
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  Speaker 3: at all. Has that come up at all in your
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  Speaker 3: conversations that, you know, you may have to do a
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  Speaker 3: deal because you've been focusing on the three Gauteng metros,
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  Speaker 3: but maybe a deal in that regard might also involve
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  Speaker 3: a certain compromise you've got to make, for example, in Durban.
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  Speaker 1: Certainly, Dr.
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  Speaker 5: John.
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  Speaker 4: One thing we've learned about politics and coalition arrangements is
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  Speaker 4: that you don't make them with a narrow mind. You
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  Speaker 4: don't talk about Tswane thinking that the implications will only
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  Speaker 4: be in Tswane. What we have heard, some political analysts
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  Speaker 4: suggesting is that if Action SA is given Tswane, then
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  Speaker 4: Action SA would need to support perhaps a DA or
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  Speaker 4: an ANC in a municipality like Johannesburg. They will not
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  Speaker 4: allow one party to have in all three metros when
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  Speaker 4: they're in a coalition arrangement. And it's all about what
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  Speaker 4: each political party is offering the other one. Certainly, we
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  Speaker 4: saw this, I think, over the past two, three years
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  Speaker 4: when we had a coalition mayhem where EFF would say, ANC,
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  Speaker 4: we can give you Ekurlen if you give us Joburg.
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  Speaker 1: And it's certainly playing out again.
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  Speaker 4: Action SA is hell-bent on the city of Tswane and
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  Speaker 4: seemingly willing to support any other political party elsewhere, just
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  Speaker 4: as long as Nassi Pimoya can retain her position.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's one thing they really, really want.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, very, very interesting talks ahead. Thank you, Alfa Ramoswana.
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  Speaker 3: Is working the phones possible? prowling the corridors as he
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  Speaker 3: has his ways and his award-winning methods. And we'll hear
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  Speaker 3: from him, I'm sure, in the course of the coming days.
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  Speaker 3: Jane's on the line from Four Ways on the subject
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: of coalitions.
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  Speaker 2: Jane, good afternoon. What's on your mind?
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  Speaker 5: Good afternoon, John. I was just looking at what I'd
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  Speaker 5: like to see. And what I'd like to see is
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  Speaker 5: each party put down those issues on which they're going
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  Speaker 5: to focus. Things that affect the service delivery to the
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  Speaker 5: people that voted them in. And then when the parties
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  Speaker 5: agree and they have enough with which to agree on,
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  Speaker 5: form the coalition and each put forward the expertise for
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  Speaker 5: the particular area. We're not so much interested in who's
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  Speaker 5: the mayor, who's this, who's that. We're interested in the
• 11:02
  Speaker 5: people that can do the job in specific focus areas
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  Speaker 5: from each of the parties. And if they really had
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  Speaker 5: the people on the ground that voted for them interested
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  Speaker 5: at heart, that's the sort of thing they'd do. And
• 11:17
  Speaker 5: we'd stop all this personality politics that's been going on
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  Speaker 5: for far too long in coalitions. So just my view
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  Speaker 5: on what I'd like to see.
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  Speaker 2: Jane, thank you.
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  Speaker 3: Jane, putting forward a suggestion, set out the issues that
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  Speaker 3: you feel are crucial, find the parties that agree with you,
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  Speaker 3: and then set out your stall and say if we've
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: all agreed that Fixing, for example, the city's water systems
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: or making sure bylaws are observed. These are the people
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  Speaker 3: we're going to put in charge of solving that. And
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: this is what qualifies them to do that.
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  Speaker 2: What's your view?
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  Speaker 3: Give us a thought. Jane has got us going. It's
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: coming up now for two minutes to four.