Latest / Authentic Living / Mediating Workplace Conflict and the ROR: Return on Relationships (Part II) with Avinder Laroya

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Mediating Workplace Conflict and the ROR: Return on Relationships (Part II) with Avinder Laroya · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:35
  Interview last week was so good that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
• 0:40
  If you missed last week, you'll find the link in the show notes.
• 0:45
  It's not mandatory that you listen, but we wanna make sure that you don't miss out on this
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  amazing conversation.
• 0:53
  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Durgesh.
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  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
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  Today, I have a colleague that I met just recently in Rome and had the pleasure of
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  sitting through her workshop, which was quite fascinating.
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  And this is a a Vinda La Roya, and she's based in Switzerland and she said some fascinating
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  work.
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  I often say that, you know, Wendy said, do you need a lawyer?
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  You, you know, it's good to have the best lawyer, but also when you're looking at
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  mediating situations, the other end of it on a vendor does both which I loved sitting through
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  what she shared with us in Rome.
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  So, Avinda, thanks so much for coming on and spending the time with us today.
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  Thank you for having me, Roxanne.
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  I'm really pleased to be here and and, to speak to you about mediation
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  Right.
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  And I think at the top, the typical kind of scenario, if you're an orator and you're able
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  to articulate and synthesize information and and feed it back.
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  That would be a party you you want to be in mediation with.
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  But let's talk with the the person, and I I was gonna say, guy, oh man, but it does need not
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  only be men that get aggressive.
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  How do you deal with individuals like that to kind of put them into a space where they're
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  using the logical part of the brain versus kind of react in that reactive kind of emotional
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  part.
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  Right?
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  What are there certain I mean, you said you were there's a lot of techniques that you use,
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  or can you share one of those things?
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  That maybe you use.
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  And I'm thinking for most of us, right, is that's not something that we all wanna get
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  better at when we deal with people that are overly aggressive or React, you know, quick to
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  quick to quick to be a bit on the explosive end.
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  Sure.
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  I mean, often when people are very passionate, or when they're describing the injustice that
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  they feel, they obviously have a sense of heightened emotion, and they can get quite
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  vocal and aggressive because all their anger is is coming out.
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  So at that point, the techniques and tools that I use is to listen to really listen to that
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  person and and help them to also feel that they are being listened to and acknowledge whatever
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  they are feeling because perhaps it may be something that they've never told anyone else
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  or had the confidence to tell anyone else.
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  So they may and and ensure that they are not feeling judged and allow them to have that time
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  to say whatever it is they want to say and give them that space silence is a pretty powerful
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  tool.
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  So allowing someone to sometimes people haven't even they've said it to themselves inside, but
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  they have never heard themselves say it.
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  So I have to sit when they've actually heard what they've said, Symence is actually quite a
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  good tool to help them to reflect.
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  The other thing, I use is, in in terms of repeating back what they've said so that they
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  under so they are actually hearing the words that they've said and ask them, how do they
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  feel about that?
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  You know, how do they is that the is that the is that the right word, you know, help them to,
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  work through the the emotion, the the situation in a sense.
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  And and, you know, sometimes people need to just take a step back Sometimes, so the
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  emotions are so heightened that they need some time to pull back and to review through.
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  It doesn't have to be Sometimes, of course, in certain circumstances, there may be time limits
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  with mediation in order to especially in commercial instance where they want to get to a
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  resolution because of, you know, it's impacting a project or it's impacting a deal.
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  But, when it comes to, like, employment disputes, workplace disputes, I often, give the
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  parties a few days because, I often interview and and have individual sessions with the
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  parties in dispute to understand from their point of view what's going on.
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  And then I gave them the time to reflect before we bring we come together as a group.
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  Okay.
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  If you've I find that ones have had the opportunity to have the tears, have the the
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  tissue pox ready, and to get everything out.
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  Actually, They feel a lot better.
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  Yeah.
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  Just just being heard and being seen.
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  Sometimes it's It's such a powerful thing, to move along the process.
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  It it's often underestimated but to actually give on the space, a nonjudgmental space to
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  just be heard and just to listen and whatever it is they they feel inside is so powerful
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  because often we have people that listen to us and then give us advice or give us contrary
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  information.
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  And, you know, that doesn't allow us to process whatever is going on inside.
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  But, through mediation as as a facilitating, you know, it's a nonjudgmental space.
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  So your setup of that space and, trust with you becomes very, very fundamental.
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  And it really depends from listening to you.
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  You know, with me as a psychologist, it, you know, that's the, you know, I also say the
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  first run of the ladder is when I'm coaching or or see someone in practice, is that I often say
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  they're they're checking me out.
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  It it takes them and it's not it's not personally about me, but it's about everything
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  that they bring with them through, you know, how many years of their life, and that imprint
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  they're they're they're adjusting it to try to figure out, can they let me proceed?
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  Do I have the the qualities to to be perceived as someone I can allow into that space, which
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  is which is really a a big privilege if you think about what you do, a vendor because, you
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  know, when people are in a space that that oftentimes they're hurt or they're in pain, and
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  and then, you know, you're trying to resolve it, but they're stuck in that that pain.
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  And they wanna move along, but they're trying to figure out how am I gonna move along.
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  And you become really a the solution to help them maybe address that.
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  I mean, some people
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  are in dispute are, experiencing a lot of mental health issues.
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  And as a consequence of of going into mediation, I've actually trained as a mental
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  health first aid.
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  Mhmm.
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  Because oftentimes I've noticed that especially in in in workplace conflicts that people are
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  really facing trauma, a lot of trauma, and there are, are instances where people are or
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  are also experiencing PTSD.
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  And so if someone is in that heightened sense of of mindset.
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  There is no way they can communicate effectively in a mediation to to settle the the
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  situation.
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  So as a fur mental health first data, I've I've had to learn to, to recognize those signals
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  because that means at that point, I would stop the mediation encourage him to get professional
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  help because I'm I'm not a, you know, an expert like yourself in that.
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  And sometimes how people don't recognize that they are in that situation because they are,
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  you know, some people are always heightened.
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  They really they can't they agitated and the pissed of the situation.
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  And then And they're not aware that it's Yeah.
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  By their company, but they're not ready for it.
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  Absolutely.
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  And they're not realizing that this, stance that they're coming forward to, it's it's it's
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  not healthy because if it's sort of a space that they've lived doing for a long period of
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  time, you know, to them, it's like, what do you mean?
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  I've I've never experienced what you're talking out.
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  So it makes sense.
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  So, obviously, at that point, mediation breaks down and you're looking at referring that
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  person to get the supports.
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  To maybe return when they're in a better psychological emotional state to be able to to
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  proceed along, the process.
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  So let's let's talk a little bit.
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  You know, so you said you do a lot of, employee, disputes.
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  So a little bit about the the commercial or international work that you've done because
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  I've, you know, when you shared some of it, through your workshop, it was fascinating.
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  She shared a a case, and I was like, all in because there were so many, you know, so many
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  players and so many variables that I think it's something that I'm sure companies are, or
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  leaders that I might be listening that have, that's a multinational might be interested in
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  kind of, you know, that space.
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  So what is it that you think would be helpful for, say, CEOs or leaders listening, about
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  corporate, mediation?
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  Well, thank you for the opportunity.
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  So with the mediation I think in current, looking at where we are as a world right now,
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  we've come out of an incredibly unrealistic period of time with the COVID pandemic, it's
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  affected us all worldwide.
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  We are all going through incredible economic challenges.
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  And as a consequence, businesses, are having to make decisions and move trying to figure out
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  ways to move forward.
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  And and, I mean, businesses have often and CEOs and manage managers have had to make decisions
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  in various economic cycles throughout the years, but what we are facing at the current
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  stage is unprecedented in in so many ways because the usual tools and the usual systems
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  that we normally use are kind of not working.
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  And I don't know whether you follow English politics.
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  We have had, further issues, with the the merry-go-round that's been happening with the
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  the change of of, premiership and hopefully, fingers crossed.
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  Things are smooth out now.
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  But in terms of, how so, you know, public policy when public policy is not, in an
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  alignment with economic, changes, it disrupts how businesses can move forward with the
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  economic changes, due to COVID, it's, given a a lot of supply chain issues.
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  There's been a lot of supply chain disruption.
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  And as a consequence, many, companies, many startups, with investors are having, that
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  mediation can be used in terms of helping to, just have those difficult discussions because,
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  obviously, startups growing and developing in this economic climate is a challenge in some
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  sectors, and investors obviously want to get a return.
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  An economic return.
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  So how do you have those difficult conversations?
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  Sometimes, there are issues where There may be a number of projects that are, on the table,
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  but because of the lack of economic clarity, or, the disruptions to the to the supply chain.
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  There is a clash between what the management want and the board want and what investors
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  want.
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  So there's a, you know, everyone has got their own, objectives and the the way that they want
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  to go forward.
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  So mediation is a way for, boards that are clashing or boards that are clashing with
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  investors.
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  To have that opportunity to have a neutral, facilitator, to try and help the two sides to
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  listen and understand each other, that they may not be able to do directly.
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  And often, you know, we've seen, a lot, back in the press, for instance, there's a heightened,
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  a number of companies that are going insolvent.
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  So difficult decisions are being made and being discussed in boardrooms right now because of
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  the economic and supply chain disruption.
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  So how do you How do you have those different conversations with your team if you have to
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  make redundancies, you know, and there's not a an agreement as to who's gonna go, who's gonna
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  stay, you know, who are you gonna pin the blame on in the board or how are you going to report
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  to that investor that things are not going so well?
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  And if often, you know, managers, board members, we all are trained in our technical
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  abilities.
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  And often it's technical people that become promoted to managerial or board member roles,
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  but that doesn't necessarily mean that they're great communicators great facilitators of
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  discussion or negotiators.
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  And these are specialist skills, even as lawyers, we know how to negotiate contracts,
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  but negotiating emotions is not something that lawyers generally do.
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  But as a mediator, as a facilitator, that is exactly what we do.
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  We look at the whole, the the hue the human behavior, and And, obviously, these
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  relationships have a dynamic impact on the progression and development and the culture of
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  the organization.
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  And without having these difficult conversations in a in a in a in a in an
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  environment where people can speak up without judgment and having that ability to speak up.
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  You know, a lot of companies now are are having to comply with ESG, environmental, social
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  governance.
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  So a lot of difficult conversations are happening due to that as well.
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  And, there's been a lot of, cases where, companies who are saying that they are green,
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  have green credentials, it they it's not exactly that true.
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  So, you know, the the term news for that is greenwashing.
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  You know, how do you deal with that as board, how do you deal with that as as a company?
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  Because then that's come out to your client, to your customer base.
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  And your and your culture too because you may be attracting people that are, you know,
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  completely buying into the company or wanting to be associated with the company.
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  And then if they're not living that value that they see they're living that could really on a
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  on an international stage, create that perception of the of the brand and like you
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  said, your your customers and who how are you gonna build that business?
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  Yeah.
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  So as a mediator is facilitating, you're actually helping to facilitate dialogue with
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  the stakeholders, your known stakeholders and those, unknown stakeholders.
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  In the case that I went through in Rome, you will remember that I talked about stakeholders
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  and, the ones that the company hadn't even acknowledged or hadn't even thought of, there
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  were indirect stakeholders, which had an impact in how the company was perceives.
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  And how, you know, they were able to move move forward with that particular dispute because it
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  it impacted many communities and, people even outside of that country, if you remember.
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  So
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  Right.
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  I know because it was it was very, multifaceted.
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  You had 2 companies and then there was manufacturing elements in different countries
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  and, you know, all the the ripple effect, and that's what I found really, I really joyed that
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  because I thought, you know, you think of a, you know, like a pebble in a river, but quite
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  literally there was reverberations from lots of different elements.
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  And how you had to work with all the different elements to kind of, you know, understand what
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  it would take to move them along.
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  And that's that's Sounds like it's it's a lot of work.
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  So when you're working with something like that, are you are you processing it with a team
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  or you, you know, once you've had these meetings and like you said, you interview all
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  the people involved, board, management, sometimes labor, all those things.
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  Are you, going back to, obviously, a colleague or that you're synthesizing this with, or you
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  kind of go through the process yourself before you kind of proceed on to the next step.
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  It's a mixture of the 2.
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  Certainly, you know, unlike an advisory role where you don't get get impacted with all the
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  emotional stuff that's being brought forward, you you do need to take that that space to a re
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  central center yourself, for sure.
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  And, yes, certainly, I work with co mediators and and other experts, as an when required,
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  each situation is different.
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  So I certainly like to work as a team.
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  In in resolving issues if required, and it depends on the on the situation.
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  I mean, the remember the example I gave, we had 3 different mediators in that instance, and
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  each one had a different approach So an and a different way of viewing the dispute.
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  And and this is where having an being unbiased and being aware of your own, limitations in a
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  sense.
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  If you if you feel, strongly about a particular situation, then it's unfair for the parties if
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  you think that you can be independent because you yourself should be honest with yourself, is
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  that, well, I can't deal with this because I have a strong opinion about the situation.
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  In that way, you're not independent and impartial.
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  So you do have
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  You're, like, looking for insurance.
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  Integrity
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  Yeah.
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  Like an internal conflict that you're kinda saying, this is kinda feeling like I kinda can
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  see this person's position.
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  More so, and I I don't know that I can create the space to move from that.
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  At that point, you would say to the company or whatever that you're gonna bring somebody else
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  on to help you out.
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  Yeah.
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  We have to and this is where self awareness and constantly working on your own biases and your
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  own thought process is is so important because as as you go along and it's a journey with
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  peace building, things that may have affected you before may not be the case, you know,
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  further down the road because you've learned to I mean, I'm sure it's the same when you were
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  Fast on that.
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  Absolutely.
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  Absolutely.
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  Because we when we train, a psychologist, we go in, you know, there's transfer.
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  You I'm sure you guys probably have the concept, or maybe if it's the same term,
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  transference, countertransfirms, where the clients can say align to you because they're
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  your remind me them of their sister, who maybe wasn't so kind to them or whatever.
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  It's the same thing.
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  Or even us, the other ways counter transference where we're having a reaction based on a a
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  frame of reference in our life.
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  So that what happens is you're like, woah, I'm having this feeling or reaction to this
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  conversation that has nothing to do with the two people across from each other.
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  It's it's more about me and like, you know, with anything you go back, it's a it's
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  absolutely awareness.
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  It's processing it, understanding it.
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  I mean, you're human being at the end of the day as well.
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  But, you know, what is it if there's a limitation to call it to your point?
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  Cause then I'm not, you know, working in the best interest of the clients, it becomes more
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  about me.
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  And then how do I clear that block if I were to proceed and should I proceed?
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  And sometimes having that conversation openly with someone else in the field like you would
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  allows you to make the best decision for that client because in the end of the day, it's for
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  the client.
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  Right?
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  Yes.
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  And this is the main difference with mediation because you're dealing with people's emotions,
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  because you're dealing with their behavior and are really delving into who is in front of you
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  as a person, as opposed to as a lawyer or even as an arbitrator, you're looking at the legal
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  arguments.
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  You're looking at the legal process.
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  You're looking at the legal the documents.
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  Yeah.
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  So the emotions are in some, in a lot of ways, taken out.
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  Yeah.
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  It's kind of practically off to the side, and you're thinking oh, I feel this.
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  However, it doesn't matter what's the precedent or what's the what's all the facts in front of
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  me and being able to fight that case for whoever you're working on behalf of.
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  Like I said, it feels like it's 2 different fields in a way even though, you know, I could
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  see this could be cross poll nation of skills.
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  That would be helpful.
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  But then technically, you're who you're working on behalf of is is the the shift in the client.
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  So for leaders out there, Avinder, that are They're probably we know that most people deal
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  with conflict and change and shifting and resizing and, you know, quiet quitting that
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  we're talking about.
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  There's a lot going on in companies to your point, post pandemic.
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  It probably is not that it wasn't there before.
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  But it's now, I think lots of light had been shone on things that maybe people kind of could
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  gloss over and move on.
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  And now not so much.
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  We don't have that same kind of time.
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  So for for leaders or or CEOs listening, what kind of things would you tell them about
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  considering about thinking about some of those conflicts or or, situations in their companies?
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  What what what would you tell them about mediation?
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  Mediation helps you to have those difficult conversations in a safe, confidential
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  environment.
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  So often there are situations as I mentioned before, most times people who have been
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  promoted to managerial positions are technical people who have done who are very good
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  technically.
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  They've done really well, and so they've been promoted.
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  And all of a sudden, they are managing people, but they have never really managed people
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  before.
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  And all of a sudden, they've got people coming to them with problems, when really they're a
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  technical person.
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  So they don't know how to so the that's when conflict some conflicts can arise, for
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  instance.
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  And that all depends on what support structures do that organization have.
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  Are there any training programs for that new manager or even a slightly more established
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  manager to deal with, the relationships in in in the in the department, in in the building,
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  in the, in the organization, what kind of psychological safety have they evolved.
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  Often when it comes to people, they, say, oh, that's a hate charge.
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  Role.
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  That's HR's problem.
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  You know, if someone's being difficult and they may be perceived to be difficult, by that
• 24:55
  person.
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  But if you break it down, it could be because they have a lack of, clarity on their role.
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  They have, the lack of clarity in the boundaries of the the situation, There's often
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  a lack of communication as to what their role is, in a sense or, you know, there are many
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  different aspects that could be triggering the dispute.
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  So one would have to look at Well, what is the culture?
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  What what's, policy?
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  I mean, sometimes people have policies, but they're not living policies.
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  Some people have policies just for the sake of it in a sense.
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  And often, yeah, you know, sometimes for instance, what would you do if, employee a says
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  to employee b?
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  Oh, I didn't have time to do some work, but we're gonna go into a meeting now.
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  Can you just tell them, oh, I I wasn't able to do it because I was, stuck with some doing
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  something else, a little white lie, you know, as employee be, what have they what have you
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  you know, what kind of training and skills.
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  Oh, you know, how can you help that employee be who maybe put in a difficult situation in that
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  point because employee a is a senior to them.
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  But how would you help employee b as an organizational structure to be able to feel
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  comfortable enough to say, well, I'm sorry.
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  I'm not gonna cover you back.
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  I'm not gonna lie for you.
• 26:32
  You have to own up that you didn't do it.
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  Right.
• 26:36
  Right.
• 26:36
  Because, yeah, roles of these thoughts and attitudes.
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  Yeah.
• 26:40
  And hierarchical structures, that's that's such such a good point.
• 26:43
  So I think, companies need to understand that, you know, if this if this infrastructure
• 26:50
  doesn't exist to your point, That's when something, like a a mediation with your team
• 26:57
  would be or having a conversation took these see what is in the best interest versus
• 27:02
  assuming that each manager or get training to to ensure that you get people to the level that
• 27:08
  they could deliver.
• 27:09
  Yeah.
• 27:10
  I mean, I asked for training programs to assist with this, and I also like to delve deep into a
• 27:16
  company and and understand how what the people dynamic is because you're dealing with
• 27:22
  personalities, egos, values, often we have mission and value statements as companies, but
• 27:28
  what what does that actually mean when it comes down to the ground?
• 27:32
  Right.
• 27:33
  When the rubber hits the road, like, they say, how does it translate and how are are people
• 27:37
  acting in accordance with those mission visions, values, you know, you're you're right.
• 27:42
  Often a lot of companies I work with, it's out of a line.
• 27:45
  It's kind of the thing they put on the wall, but when when, you have difficult situations.
• 27:51
  It's not what people are are referring back to.
• 27:53
  So reality is 1 and day to day is another.
• 27:57
  And then of course then you get into that tumbleweed where the little things become
• 28:02
  bigger things and then, you know, you're having a lot of landmines throughout the company and
• 28:06
  then, you know, what what happens to your your, you know, people managers and your HR what's
• 28:12
  happening to the bottom line at that point.
• 28:14
  It's a bit of a, you know
• 28:15
  I've just recently written an article, which is on my blog now.
• 28:18
  If you want to have a look, it's all about why employees find it difficult to speak up.
• 28:24
  Okay.
• 28:24
  Well, let you know what that if you provide that, we can we can actually add it to the show
• 28:29
  notes.
• 28:29
  Avinda, this has been amazing as usual.
• 28:32
  After sitting through a workshop, I I had such a good time, and we were able to spend some
• 28:37
  time and get to know each other, in person.
• 28:40
  So where is it that you would like people to get a hold of you if they wanted to find out
• 28:45
  further about some of the things that you're offering?
• 28:48
  So just let us know, where where you'd like them to.
• 28:50
  Yeah.
• 28:51
  We can go to www.minutemediation.com, and I will also send some information to you, wearing
• 28:58
  your listeners can, can find me.
• 29:02
  Awesome.
• 29:02
  Well, it's been a pleasure having you.
• 29:04
  So what am I walk I'm walking away with?
• 29:07
  You know, most of us are technical and we have been promoted because of technical skills.
• 29:14
  But actively listening to not give solutions is something that I think most human beings need
• 29:22
  to continue to work on.
• 29:23
  I know it's something that I continue to work on, in in my daily life, not just at work, but
• 29:29
  also at home.
• 29:31
  So to think about that is like, you know, how is it that I give myself the time to try to
• 29:36
  really listen.
• 29:38
  And if you're not so good at it, try to take some time and practice it.
• 29:43
  Maybe not to practice it with your most important clients, but maybe practice it with
• 29:47
  somebody that, you know, is a trusted person that could give you some feedback.
• 29:53
  So again, thanks for tuning in.
• 29:54
  If you're wanting to find out more about your relationships, you can go to roxanderhodge.com
• 30:01
  forward slash quiz.
• 30:02
  There's a quick quiz that you can do to kind of see your level of connectedness or authenticity
• 30:07
  in your relationships either at work or at home.
• 30:09
  And we'll send you a little mini report so you kinda know, where you stand with maybe some
• 30:14
  next steps.
• 30:14
  So again, Avin, then thanks so much.
• 30:16
  And for everyone, we'll chat with you next week.
• 30:18
  Take care.
• 30:20
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 30:25
  healthy change.
• 30:26
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 30:33
  Derhodge dotcom/blueprint.
• 30:37
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.