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National Wellness Month: I Hate My Job! · ABA Business Leaders

• speaker-0: Hi everyone, I'm April. It's National Wellness Month and in honor of National Wellness Month, we're going to be re-releasing some previous episodes that look at burnout, stress, mental health, and more. We'll also be using this time to enjoy the little tiny slice of Canadian summer that we get here with our family and friends. speaker-1: And I'm Steven. Each re aired episode is intended to not only give us and our team a little bit of a break, but it's also designed to make sure that you don't miss out on the best episodes during our busy summer schedule. speaker-0: Whether you're listening for the first time, welcome or revisiting these episodes, we hope that they give you some practical ideas, fresh perspective, and maybe even a little reminder to take care of yourself along the way. speaker-1: And we'll be back in September with some brand new episodes, exciting guests, and some huge news ⁓ that we're really excited to be sharing soon. speaker-0: So until then, enjoy today's episode and have a wonderful summer. And thanks for listening to the ABA Business Leaders Podcast. Hi everyone. So we're working on podcast prepping for working on our series of I hate my job that we are hoping to relaunch, like launch the next season. speaker-1: And so we had two, you know, we had we have ⁓ some virtual assistants, we had two of our virtual assistants ⁓ go on Reddit and go on Twitter and TikTok and ⁓ get some get some feedback ⁓ from some of you that may be listening. ⁓ and it's just I don't know, crazy. It's pretty it's pretty wild. I I know, I know, I I know, I know, and I've heard a lot of this, but still reading it is is crazy. speaker-0: So we stopped it because we were like, as we were reading these things, we were like reacting, right? And just naturally. And we're like, okay, we gotta stop this because I mean, you know, maybe it'll be good content. But then also like ⁓ we need yeah. By our nine year old who watches reaction video videos for like Minecraft and stuff, but then also from our marketing people. So what a great speaker-1: We've been told we need to make reactions. speaker-0: Opportunity here. So I don't know. You guys may hear this whole thing or you may only hear sniffets and not even hear this introduction. But here we go. speaker-1: All right. So I'm gonna share my screen. Well ⁓ you do your dance and I'll share my screen. All right. speaker-0: All right. This post reads The AVA field needs to do better, so much better. It is completely unacceptable that after going through new company onboarding and training, you are given a client. You learn all their programs to study their BAP intensively to be prepared. Two great job doing that, by the way. Two weeks go by and you're the one that has to ask them for a follow-up, only for them to never tell you that they gave your client to someone else. ⁓ They sent me some an email two weeks ago. They sent me an email two weeks ago that I'd be ready to start soon and they'd keep in touch. If I never sent that email, I would have just looked stupid playing the winning game. Well, first of all, please communicate. Like we need to communicate to our staff, like every step of the way, and communicate to our parents. Like, you know, I'm sure there was a million things going on that delayed this that this person is not aware of, but communicate to them. I'm in an unfortunate position where I need to work soon. And now they just tell me the client I was promised the position is filled now. Nothing else after that message. It's been almost a month since I had to do all this work. I'll only be told this. That's a lot. That's that that's that can put a bad taste in your mouth for sure, no matter what industry you're in. Like to not be if you're not gonna be treated with more respect in the beginning, like walk away from this job. speaker-1: What's it gonna be like in six months? Yeah. speaker-0: I've had my fair share of issues with the field, but I think the most frustrating is the fact that most companies genuinely don't care about their RBTs and toss them aside whenever. That really that that like breaks my heart. Like for real. Like that's that anyone would feel that way. we are always front and center in the field. Absolutely, 100%. Absolutely. You're the you're like on the front lines, like we always say. We can't do it without you guys, without tech. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ we are always front and center in the field only to be underpaid, overworked, and treated like dirt. No one d no one deserves to be treated like dirt at their job no matter where they work and who they are. Like it's just speaker-1: And certainly like yeah, I mean a case for certain jobs. Maybe I mean maybe you shouldn't, but maybe you could make that case, but not this. Not not this job, right? Like this is such a critical role in an ABA company. You you can. Yeah. speaker-0: Or in a helping field. See, we're we're in the business for helping people. We're in the business for helping to like improve people's lives by changing behaviors that are like not serving them, right? So like we gotta show up and like at a speaker-1: Use the correct behaviors for your staff so that they can use help ⁓ your children, right? Like yeah, it it's I I don't this seems like so ironic in some way, right? ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. I mean and and too like to text as well. Like I'm like, okay, if people are gonna treat like this like run, but you you know, maybe even saying, Hey, I I you know, I I value communication. Ca can I I would like to be a part of this process, at least in the sense that can you send me like an ongoing update every two days or something like that, right? Right. not that it's this person's fault by any means, but like that is a a right that you have like to be communicated with. Like you they don't have to tell you all the reasonings, but they can say, Hey, ⁓ yeah, this this thing just didn't work out. Maybe that client bailed. Maybe this other per like speaker-1: Well it sounds like this person saying that it was given to somebody else. ⁓ speaker-0: And maybe, maybe that person, maybe there was a reason for that. Maybe there was a valid reason. But the fact that they're not communicating that, that's the piece here. Because like I can hear business owners right now. I can hear myself feel put on that hat of when I owned a clinic and be like, Well, I mean, there's a lot that you might not know. There might have been, you know, this person might have been more ⁓ had the skill set that matched this kid or had they maybe have already worked with us for five years and they needed to feel we needed to fill them in this spot and We hire ⁓ since we've hired you, these other things happened. Yep. But you can communicate. You have to communicate. And if you've hired someone to start, you gotta you're gonna lose them. Like that's what we keep hearing people say that like we can't find text, we can't find text. Well speaker-1: Well don't treat text like that then. speaker-0: So yeah, so she goes on to say that like she hated your ⁓ speaker-1: And I've had more downs than ups. When it changed when it change gonna start happening and what petition or something can I sign for to do. So yeah, I mean these are things that, you know, during the interview process, these would be issues that I would be considered when, you know, how many clients am I gonna have? How quickly are you gonna respond to me? You know, ⁓ and if they're not following through with what they say that they're going to do, like you said, April, if they're doing this at the start, right, when ⁓ then and the the I guess the good news in this situation, at least you didn't have any clients, right? It would have been tough if you would have got like an evening case and then ⁓ and then they were you were promised a morning at a midday and and they're like ghosting you, that's not cool. So I don't know. ⁓ good luck. speaker-0: Business owners, we have to business leaders, we have to communicate. We have to communicate to everyone within our team. All right. Unprofessional boss. ⁓ I don't even want to read it. Hi, so I have a boss who has been lying about providing practicum hours. Has also called me into the office to tell me some BCBAs have complained behind my back. Communicating that I seem arrogant and insubordinate. speaker-1: Next one. speaker-0: When all I did was tell them I didn't think it was right to hand me with a child with child being highly aggressive behaviors without shadowing or training on initial sessions. I haven't done anything to refuse or sabotage service. Hold on, hold on the valid part is that like that she I mean she had this this tech has a right to be upset that she was handed a child with highly aggressive behaviors without the training. Right. speaker-1: Hold on. So so shouldn't shouldn't like ⁓ B C B A do an initial session for every kid anyway? Like like like regardless of the the where they're at? Like if it was highly aggressive, like i this is a true thing, right? If they were highly aggressive, then it should be way more than just one session. speaker-0: Like is it's unless there there was a few minor exceptions, but like for us, we always like we wouldn't start the case until the B C B A I mean the BCBA would already have done the assessment. And so sometimes the the tech would go out with the B C B A to help with the assessment. But if but even if they weren't able to do that, like we wouldn't start that first day until unless it maybe it was like a tech in training to become a B C B A and they already had a certain level of experience and maybe we already knew from the From the assessment that y you know, maybe it was a pretty speaker-1: But even if this was like an RBT like taking over a case from a ⁓ like a different RBT still even that there would be shadowing. speaker-0: Yeah. Right. So Yeah. So okay, so let me see. So boss has been lying about providing practical matters. I don't I don't even know. Yeah, that's ⁓ that's a whole thing. But the thing is too, like leaders, we we that's this isn't how to this isn't how to handle a situation. Like you don't come at you like that's a great way to start like a a a triangle, like a a gossip triangle or whatever you call it right where like ⁓ well the BCBAs so you B C BAs have complained about you being arrogant and insubordinate, and that's not how you do it. That's not how you do it. That's not how you give feedback. ⁓ when all I did was tell them I didn't think it was right to hand me a child. Yeah, so I haven't done anything to refuse or sabotage services or behave insubordinately. Sounds like you, you know, and there again with all of these that were were acted to, like we only have the information we have here. But it sounds like you were saying, hey, speaker-1: No. speaker-0: I don't I I'm not comfortable here. I don't have the skill set for this. This is not an okay situation that I'm in right now. I got kind of physically hurt during that session. Kind of physically hurt, you got physically hurt during that session. And speaker-1: If if if you all are listed like BTs, su ⁓ like ⁓ new B C B A's, whatever, like if there is like physical you know, things get physical, then you need to fill out an incident report. ⁓ and so I would be asking my supervisor, my ⁓ clinical director how do I fill out an incident report? speaker-0: hurt what do I how do I document this? Yes. No during that session the boss basically acted like if I couldn't handle this physical demands then maybe I should think about whether or not I should do something else. Come on, people. speaker-1: Well, there's your answer. Bye bye. Right. speaker-0: Yes, but as a V C B A you'll have the you'll have more of the skill set. And you'll have like other V C V A's and and to commute speaker-1: The thing is I'm not a BCBA yet, so that isn't determined now. They also haven't been training me on it like they agreed to on hire. speaker-0: We have to train our staff. We have to train our staff. speaker-1: Call me in later to tell me that vag some again. Other RBTs complain because I was telling them how to run their sessions. All I have done so far is is help when asked, shadow trained when asked, or pass along the information a BCBA just shared with me. On occasion, I see a new RBT come in treating a kid like crap with a bad tone and a bad attitude, and then I will interfere a little. speaker-0: Okay, so ⁓ in my in my experience over a bunch of years working with multiple companies even before we started our own, when an when a tech is put in the position where they feel like that other people are feel ⁓ how am I trying to say like if a tech is in that situation where they're the ones that's supposed to be that's giving the feedback and they shouldn't even be in that situation in the first place unless maybe they're like A specific they have like a specific training level or they're like a level three tech that that's their job is is to do some training or mentoring, but like they shouldn't be in that position. speaker-1: gonna push back though dude like you yeah like I I wouldn't be giving feedback to another RBT I would be talking to my supervisor and saying hey I saw this how do we work with this BT and and and maybe then your BCBA can give you some tips on what to do in that situation or the BCBA should be taking care of it. speaker-0: Yeah, but it sounds like it's not even the environment that the there's open for open community. speaker-1: I'm just pushing back that this you know, like like I I'm just be honest here, like an RBT coming in, I don't know how long you've been there, I don't know how long they were there. And if you come in and say, hey, you're acting mean to that kid, like they and they already have a bad attitude, it's it's certainly not gonna help your case. It's not gonna help your case. So that's just, you know, like again, this is again why it's really good to have like those soft skills and and it's not just about like Okay, do your forty hours of training, right? It's how how can we ⁓ advocate for ourselves, advocate for the kids. 'Cause you absolutely like if you're seeing something wrong, you have to say something, but there are are different ways to do that. And you know what, it doesn't sound like so far we still get a whole paragraph in there too, ⁓ that we have to read, but it doesn't sound like this is a great working environment anyway. speaker-0: Right. However, this sum she keeps saying is leaving me with this with this isolated feeling. Isolated. That is something that is something we hear a lot from Texas, especially in home, is like feeling isolated. speaker-1: I I guess I'm she called me in later to tell me that vague speaker-0: Some like some like in the beginning, like some B C B A's have complained about you. Some people have complained about you. speaker-1: Who can I go to and just be myself without being paranoid that they are taking things the wrong way? speaker-0: So like ultimately it just sounds like there is no environment for communication here. Like from the beginning, like whoever the B SPAs or the boss, whoever this boss is, is like creating a toxic work environment. ⁓ although I have suspicions about who might have an attitude, she seemed to be on the side of the pots. Or see, like it's like this is like this is just this is the drama. Yes. That it it yes, this kind of drama happens in every workplace. Yes, 100%. But like we have the skills. We have the knowledge and the skills to prevent this from happening within our workplaces. So let's use that. speaker-1: I was supposed to hire s I guess supposed to be hired at mid level as an intern. So her general accusation that I shouldn't be advising I don't know why you'd be mid level or an intern. speaker-0: Well maybe she already had a lot of experience coming in or something. And we don't I we don't have enough well like to become a B C B A. That's what sometimes they'll call like interns, right? If they're working towards our B C B A. speaker-1: So I shouldn't be advising a little where I can seem a little in unintuitive. speaker-0: So the whole situation has been demeaning. I hear you. I want to value ⁓ validate you that this like I could I could totally see why this would be demeaning. Like and that's like the communication breakdowns that happen, like that's what this is what happens from them. And if you don't have that open door policy and that's where those like triple C conversations, like, ⁓ what the th what are the three same? speaker-1: Continuous conversations. ⁓ speaker-0: I just call it triple C and I forget what it's called. But that's what that's one thing that these are good at because they're like you can put them in at a regular frequency and you can from the very get go you have these conversations, right? Like ongoing conversations. But I mean so you also have to look at like the the values of the workplace and you know, like sometimes if it's already a toxic situation, like it it's already a toxic situation. But business leaders. Communicate again, communicate and and treat people with kindness. And communication is kindness. Even if it's direct feedback that may not be taken that might people might not want to hear, do it in a kind, direct way. speaker-1: And I think he the thing and again, ⁓ we don't know what went beyond behind the scenes and what this owner or b boss whatever said or did. But if you are in this situation, get the facts, right? We don't have to give names, but okay, you did this on this day, and this is against this policy, and this is how you change, right? So ⁓ there is explicit information here. It's easy to understand, but because Regardless of who said what, he like ⁓ you know, i if if there is like i understandable violations of policies or procedures and how I improve and and change, then maybe this communication breakdown doesn't happen in the first place. speaker-0: Exactly. Yeah, totally. All right, next one. Singing seeking advice on managing caseload as a BCBA student. My company keeps asking me to take on additional clients and assessments. I would love your advice. I am currently a BCBA student with less than two months to go for supervision hours. I love my company and BCBA supervisor. However, I have repeatedly asked not to take on additional cases until after I pass my exam. To find time to study and potentially ask for a raise. ⁓ despite this, I have been repeatedly asked to take on clients. Recently I was asked to do an assessment for a client, but not take on the case, which clearly I will be asked to keep the case. After agreeing to only the assessment, they reached out again asking if I could also assess the brother. What should I do? I feel like I already made an exception the first time, but I really don't want to get stuck with two extra clients at my student rate. I have a 10 client caseload. What are your thoughts? Adding more clients is a new BCBA too I mean, first of all, it sounds like you know what your limits are. And ⁓ I mean, it ⁓ my thoughts of this, I don't know if it's gonna be popular, but my thoughts of this is like, okay, you know your limits and you're saying no. But then you still took it. ⁓ sometimes we have to make hard decisions and sometimes we just have to say no. And if they don't respect that, then is that or you want to continue your work? Now I get you only have two months until you're done. So maybe then you have to like decide, okay, how am I gonna what am I gonna be willing to do to stick this out so that I can get my BCVA so then maybe I go somewhere else. But ⁓ I mean if it's and that's the thing. And then speaking to the business leader, ⁓ it the business leader, you're probably like really you need this per you you have this case that you need them to take. However, a lot of times we forget that like we're all human. And if this person is really saying that they don't have the capacity to take on this other case, then maybe they don't. I I don't know. What are you what are you thinking? speaker-1: My first thought is she's not a BCBI. So ten cases, why is she doing assessment solo? Are you billing insurance for these ten cases as her the supervisor and you're building it under another supervisor? ⁓ this is crazy to me. So ⁓ I have lots of questions. Lots of questions on this. So like I I don't understand. ⁓ there's way too much that yeah, because she's saying she has 10 cases, so those aren't direct service, obviously. speaker-0: Good question. speaker-1: And they're asking her to do an assessment again. This this speaker-0: Who's bill ⁓ yeah, who's billing? Yeah, 'cause RBTs can't do assessments and bill for it. And no no payer. I don't care who your payer is. speaker-1: You can't you can't say, Well, you do the assessment and I'll bill for it. ⁓ like that that you can't you can't do that. So I have lots of questions. This this seems sketchy to me. ⁓ like this is weird, this is fraud, if this is being billed. Now maybe they're maybe this is a a different Like funding, they have a different funding source and maybe they're allowed like maybe it's some weird Medicaid or self funded or it's ⁓ you know, self pay and I don't know. I like but I have lots of questions. And so no, you're not a B C B A, so you shouldn't have ten cases. That's how I read it. speaker-0: Ten cases that you're like in charge of assessment and supervising, like it'd be one thing to be the tech should have ten cases that they're working on and speaker-1: Right. Right. That's what I'm saying. Like like ten cases of direct service, right? It's not. She's saying I have ten cases, I'm doing assessment. I don't understand. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of questions. speaker-1: for that one yeah look there yeah we we are not reading the chats on these things so maybe maybe there's additional information in the chats but this seems fishy to me. All right. speaker-0: Six question. Is it ethical for a company to ask the BCBA not to tell the clients they're leaving the company and basically them not show up and the clients have no idea and talk who they live? No, no, it's not ethical. I can understand waiting to a specific time, especially if you already have someone lined up. But still, there should be turn there should be like switching over the case. Like the new B C B A should be like learning from the current B C B A. There should be a lot of things that happen. Now I know it doesn't always but still like it doesn't always happen as clean as that because of timings, but still there should be communication. I understand that the the family's gonna be upset, but there should still be communication. speaker-1: I guess like ⁓ how when did she send this into like is she ⁓ is she the BCBA that's leaving or he is the B C B A that's leaving or did you just hear about this and you heard that they're leaving and that BCBA told you they told me I can't tell or are did at like so if somebody tells like with us, if they e emailed us and say like speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: There were a couple of examples where they were just leaving the state. Look, I'm leaving, I can give X amount of notice. and and we would say don't tell the clients yet 'cause we want to plan. We want to plan Yeah, and and that's what I'm saying. I don't know where in the process, like did did this happen and then she posted it and they told her not to say anything, and she's like, or he or she is like, ⁓ I don't know. Do I or like where in the process was this? Was this day one? I sent my email and they told me not to say anything, or is this day fourteen or thirty and I'm this my last day and I I don't wanna feel like ⁓ that I'm just abandoning the clients. So I have questions on this. But yeah, they shouldn't They shouldn't they should have a plan and you should let the clinical director or the admin team break the news to the parent and with a plan in place. And then they tell you, ⁓ okay, we let them know. Now you can talk about it, but you know, like just be aware like, yeah, of of like non solicitation, non disclosures, right? Like all that stuff, right? So that that would be my opinion on this speaker-0: Yes. All right. Okay, I can't wait to read this one. RBT ten ninety nine or W Two classification. Okay, business leaders. What's the answer before even reading this? Should we do ten ninety nine or I've been employed in the field for over six years. And these six years I have been a ten ninety nine contractor. I'm assuming this is the RBT here. speaker-1: No. speaker-0: Last year I worked for two companies and two companies which both gave me a ten ninety nine. You can't do this, people. I've read plenty of Reddits and Google to know this is illegal. When bringing up my concerns to the company, they both replied it's okay and shouldn't be a problem. Have them reach out to us. We'll help them. In six years, I never got a report back from IRS or Medicaid stating that being a ten ninety nine contractor is wrong. Has anyone successfully reported companies to the IRS for the misclassification? As of right now, I know of no companies who have got in trouble for these. ⁓ we do. We know of some people. Currently, ninety percent of companies in South Florida practice this tactic. speaker-1: I'd like to see the data on that. speaker-0: It sounds like it might be a thing that you're hearing about a lot. Are we completely alone with our problems as RBTs? Do we have a do we not have a voice? We're trying to give you a voice. speaker-1: Here here's the thing. You know, we we did a talk with ⁓ Dr. Bailey. He's you have you as RBT have to bring these things up. If you feel you're in an unethical situation and it does not change, you have to advocate for yourself and the clients, and if it doesn't change, you leave. So if you're a ten ninety nine contractor and you're listening to this, leave. Goodbye. I get that this is there there are there's going to be consequences to this. Well you speaker-0: You first communicate. You can first communicate but then like or communicate why you're leaving is because like be clear, is because you're a ten ninety nine contractor and that's not okay. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, look, it's not on this RBT. Yeah the adult in the room. The board has sent out newsletters. There's an ethics board. There there are many avenues. There are attorneys, right? This is not their company. They don't have responsibility. It's not their job. No, sorry. I don't I don't buy it. And then if if you're listening to this as a B C B owner and you're doing ten ninety nines and and you feel like this is ⁓ offensive or or inappropriate of my ⁓ what I'm telling people to do. I'm sorry, you're wrong. You're just wrong. You're wrong. You're doing it you're doing it wrong. It's not speaker-0: And it's not okay. Okay. No, it's wrong. Like the B C ⁓ the speaker-1: They are not an independent contractor. They're not an independent contractor. Stop doing this. Period. End of story. Report them to the state. speaker-0: And RBTs out there who are BTs, who have like behaviox, whatever your job title is, you shouldn't be ten ninety nine. speaker-1: Especially if you're an RBT. The board has come out and said you are not an independent. You have to follow your ethics. You are certified, right? You could potentially lose your RBT status because you're doing something like this. Again, this is not your problem. All right. They put you in this situation. It sucks that you're in this situation. And if there were more R B Ts that were doing this and leaving, this would no longer be happening because it wouldn't be available. So speaker-0: not your problem, but you have you have the ability to take action on your situation. speaker-1: Because I can guarantee if if they're d ⁓ and again, come at me. I don't care. Feel free. Comment, ⁓ whatever. ⁓ it's so frustrating. It's just frustrating. It's it's been no, it's too much. So if if ⁓ if they're doing 1099 crap, then I guarantee there's other things that they're not following that they should be following, like HIPAA, like maintaining PHI. Like there there's gonna be other things. This is like This is the lowest benchmark of the lowest, right? Like the like if you're not doing this simple payroll stuff right, then what are what are what are the other things that are missing? Yeah, find another job. This is not the place for you. this is not this should not be a question in two thousand twenty four, period. speaker-0: All right, moving on. Good ABA companies. Getting so discouraged and dis disappointed in the ABA companies near me. I've worked for a handful and they are either so new, the growing pains are unbearable. They underpay or aren't even real. speaker-1: Wonder what that means. I don't know. Probably like all telehealth like that maybe person we talked to the other day. speaker-0: Thank you. Yeah, maybe. The company I'm working for now pays very well. However, they are so new and I'm unable to get supervision. Okay companies, I don't care how new you are. You have to supervise your staff. speaker-1: Somebody's getting spicy. speaker-0: HIPAA laws are being broken left and right. See, you gotta know what you're doing before you start a company. And communication is non-existent. Okay. If you guys have heard me say it once, you're gonna hear me say a million times, communication, you have to communicate with your people. I've been looking around to work somewhere else, but I haven't found a single company that has a good reputation. speaker-1: So again, RBT, I hate that you're in this situation, but you have to advocate for yourself and your clients. I'm not getting my supervision. I have to stop working until I get my supervision. I've gone X amount of days without seeing my supervisor. And and then ⁓ again, companies may start to get upset at me, but like. This stuff has to stop. And again, I don't know the whole story, right? But if this is let's say that l I'm I'm going on the assumption that this is a hundred percent accurate. then then keep those emails, right? Keep those emails to make sure that you can report this. Because if you're not getting supervision, you shouldn't be seeing clients. As far as HIPAA, there are ways to report HIPAA. ⁓ and and ⁓ one thing that I highly recommend ⁓ any RBT listening to this is ⁓ if you ⁓ are interviewing with a company, ask them what their whistleblower policy is and how that will works. and and see if they have one. Because if they don't, ⁓ what is their ⁓ non retaliation policy? ⁓ 'cause if they don't, then I don't know. Do you know what I mean? speaker-0: Yeah, no, seriously. And even like HIPAA, like like educate yourself too. Like, okay, I hear HIPAA laws are being broken left and right. What HIPAA laws? You know, like start jour journaling this, writing it down, keeping track. speaker-1: It's a a a a group of regulations. It's not necessarily it's not necessarily a law, right? So like it's not like, ⁓ you're going to jail for ten years. Like it it's it's ⁓ so I it would be maybe there are some violations. I don't know what those violations are left and right, right? Like I don't know if they're using text or so that would be interesting to know more about. But the fact that there is no communication and there's no supervision, that sucks. and I I think that this is the trend we see overall that just it has to stop, right? And I know that there are various reasons why, because the BCBA that's probably on the case doesn't have the time because they've got 15 cases and they're supervising their their student who also apparently gets 11 cases. So and ⁓ yeah, so this is this is difficult. And so our goal, right, by these podcasts that we're doing by the our podcast, by our training, by our everything that we do is to help B C BAs create ethical and sustainable companies. And I know there are a lot of them out there. speaker-0: There are and and I will say communication, you you say that communication is non-existent. There again, we only know what's in here in the snippet. But I just want to compel all RBTs out there that you have the right to communicate as well. Yes. It's not just on the the employer. and I'm sure you probably I'm sure you've communicated you've attempted numerous communications, but I'm just letting you guys know it's also your responsibility to communicate as well. I'm seeing this, I'm not getting this, but I need this. But I hear like Steven said, sometimes those sometimes you you have limits. And so then you just have to report and leave. speaker-1: And then you know, the other thing that you could do in this situation, if you like the place that you're working at, but you're n you feel you're not getting and you feel that you could possibly help, sit down with the owner and say, Look, this is what I see. I want to make you better. Can you help me? Maybe you can get part-time admin person and you can ⁓ help lead this company in a different direction, right? So it doesn't necessarily have to be peace out on speaker-0: Yeah, it comes to them in a helpful way. speaker-1: I wanna help. I I I believe in what you're doing. I can see that this is a good company. ⁓ but it looks like you guys are all kind of stressed and overwhelmed. I would love to be able to take on different tasks ⁓ and maybe I can help with these certain things. And and you may become a leader in this company. speaker-0: I mean especially if it's a new company, you know, like I don't know how new a new company is, but like it's hard. But that's why we also you know, we we offer consultation and we offer speaker-1: In a company that it's tough. Yeah. speaker-0: Well and just you know, and all of our everything that's out there or the free stuff and everything, like we're not saying come buyer stuff, but like all of our all of our stuff that's out there is to help these new ⁓ speaker-1: It is overwhelming. It is overwhelming. speaker-0: One of the things that we talk about to new owners is like you have to have some basic things in place before you start speaker-1: Yeah. Before you're taking on cases before you start hiring. Yeah. It's really important because of these situations. And the situation this owner may find themselves in is that I didn't put these things in first, and now I'm ca I'm trying to play catch up, but I have a full caseload. I've got a whole bunch of employees and now they don't have the time or the resources ⁓ to put these things in place. And so that's why it's tough to do that. But ⁓ the BCBA business owners, if you find yourself in this situation, like you have to find a mentor, you have to find get an admin person that can help you put these things in place. If you have an RBT that is saying, Hey, these things are happening, see if they well take some ownership of it and see if they can help you with it. Because obviously if they're coming to you and saying, Hey, these things are happening, then ⁓ they want to help. They want to help. So that would be Yeah, good luck. speaker-0: Good. speaker-1: ⁓ I'm gonna zoom in. speaker-0: Okay. My favorite is being understaffed by six RBTs for the current clients we have. And the company tries bringing in four more clients. Yeah, I mean yeah. You can all you yeah. I I I you can only Yeah, I have no words. Like you you you you can't you you ⁓ techs and B C B A's could only provide quality services for certain amount speaker-1: And just like I believe that this is part of the ethics, right? And we should probably pull up the ethics when we do these things, but that you can't just take on clients to do assessments and not have not have space for them to do ongoing therapy. So again, this is where I would be pushing back and like some yeah, like somebody's gotta step up and be a leader, right? And if it's not the boss, there's a book I just saw. ⁓ being the leader when you're not the boss. ⁓ read that book, right? Like so somebody has to step up and do the right thing. And we can't just keep on saying, well, this is my company, it keeps on doing that either, right? There has to be some pushback saying, hey, I'm doing this because I love my clients and I want to do right by them. I want to make sure that I'm providing quality services, ethical services. And so Yeah, I that sucks being understaffed by six RBTs and then also trying to get clients. But I will also say that the reason why they may be understapped by six RBTs is because they're all evening cases and nobody wants to work evenings. So and they're trying to bring on maybe four cli like again, I don't know the whole situation, but maybe they're trying to bring on four morning clients so that they can staff these cases with full time RBTs. I don't know. That's me looking at it from best case scenario. Yep. Moving on. speaker-0: All right, the training for the company is ultimately the source of the mistreatment of autistic people. I have previously also been completely unaware of ongoing abuse by ABA providers. Because I had worked for a good company, I only wish to advocate for autistic individuals. speaker-1: Training for the company is ultimately the source. Yeah, I totally agree with that. Like the training, yeah. So if you have no training, like if your training is non existent, like there was one we read before we said we need to react to these. Like I've I I've been here for what, I think they said four four days or something like that, and then they threw me in on a case and I've never worked in the field before. ⁓ yeah, yeah. speaker-0: And they got like physically injured because speaker-1: And so that that's going of course that's going to lead to abuse and on ethical services and and may not be intentional, right? But by design, the fact that there is no training it is going to lead to that inevitable outcome. speaker-0: There are not adequate training and supervision. speaker-1: Correct. Yes. And so because I had worked because I had worked for a good company, I only wish to advocate for autistic individually. Yeah. Like again, this is speaker-0: Are the population who we we provide services for, we are their advocates. That is our job is to look at their best interests. And we want them to be safe. And we want to help teach them the skills that they need to have a better quality of life. So yeah, absolutely. Training is so important. And that's part of this growth of a new company, growth of an existing company. I don't care where you're at in your journey of your company. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: But training your staff and providing ongoing training and supervision is like crucial. Like you can you can't you can't speaker-1: Yes, and so like that that's where the onboarding process comes on. Okay, so you know, the the so I mean there's a lot of moving pieces here, but like who are who who are who are the clients that we can ethically work with? That's the first thing that needs to be understood, right? Because if you're if you're taking on cases that maybe you don't have the skill set for, and then obviously if you're not trained, then how are your staff trained, right? So there's that piece of it. ⁓ so knowing the clients that you can work with is super important. Knowing your values ⁓ and how you're going to respond to those clients that you you cannot work with because you don't have the skill set. Are you going to refer them out or how how is that are you going to bring in some experts? I I don't know how that works. And then having an onboarding ⁓ that will ⁓ allow your text to work independently. After the training is over is super important with the clients that you currently work with. speaker-0: Yeah, independently that still means with ongoing training and supervision. speaker-1: But like independently where they can do the amount of of ⁓ of direct service with the appropriate level of supervision based on the client and ⁓ and and staff members skill sets. Correct. Yes. Okay. I appreciate you advocating for autistic of individuals. speaker-0: All right. All right. just need a minute here. These are getting woof. Okay. I'm also an RBT. I don't abuse my clients either, but I do feel like the ABA company I work for only cares about the money. Like my stomach feels queasy. I love making a difference, but it's easy to get burnt out. Absolutely 100%. Sometimes we don't feel supported. I guess it depends on the company. Yeah. See the these I feel really I feel sad ⁓ when I read these. speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ I I guess like this is just going back to RBTs and saying you have to advocate for yourself and your clients. It is part of the ethics. Like, ⁓ if you are recognizing you're getting burnt out, then you are not going to be effectively helping your clients either, right? You're not gonna you may have family, right? You may have your own kids at home, you may have your ⁓ husband or wife at home that that you may have mom and dad that you need to take care of, right? Like there there's like so it it yeah, if you're burnt out, this is not good. so advocating for yourself and your client. ⁓ and I again when you're doing the interview process, okay, what happens if I'm I get burnt out? Like w what what do we do in that situation? speaker-0: Who can I go to if I start to feel like I'm getting burnt out? Like because you want to, you know, we all it it the optimum, the optimal work environment is one in which that's going to support you and help you to even identify what what those like precursor behaviors are to burnout. Like what what starts to happen first, you know, to lead to that burnout, because we want to help support you before you get to that point. And as an individual, as speaker-1: What burnout is? speaker-0: Person on your own, your own responsibility is to whether that's coaching or therapy or you know, reading books or listening to podcasts, like really starting to learn about burnout yourself and like what can I do? How do I start to recognize those early burnout signs? And how do I, what do I do to not get to that place? speaker-1: And again, if you're in this field for the long haul as an RBT, your plan is to become a B C B A, you you love this field, it sounds like, right? ⁓ then I I would again like step up and say, look, because I can guarantee if you're ⁓ if you're feeling burnt out, there are other RBTs May they may not be saying it, but there are gonna be other BTs in that company that are also burnt out. So, like, you know, one of the things that we did was we created a a BT ⁓ round table for our company where they could vent and figure out solutions amongst themselves and and if there were yeah, if there were issues if there were issues that ⁓ that came from those round tables speaker-0: Start speaker-1: They would be anonymously ⁓ given to directors or supervisors to hopefully alleviate those issues or remove those barriers. So ⁓ because if you're doing good, our clients are doing good and that has to be the way that we look at this. So ⁓ yeah, ⁓ good luck. speaker-0: Hug to you. Okay, maybe we have room time for one or two more. I'm getting hot. All right, so not the good kind either. ⁓ hi. So I switched to my current company back in November after leaving an awful company, and this one feels like it may be awful too. speaker-1: Yeah, kinda. speaker-0: I am marking thirty five to forty ninety nine seven one five five. So nine seven one five five is speaker-1: Super like protocol modification. Protocol. And then ⁓ five six is parent training training. Fam family guidance. speaker-0: parently guidance. So just for those who might not know the codes. So they're working. So I'm assuming this is a B I'm assuming it's a B so that's a B C B A code. anyway, so they're working thirty five to forty available hours. But now I could only get eight hours including drive time. speaker-1: It should be a B C V. ⁓ so dropped? speaker-0: But I was already feeling burnt out because it's a lot. So I drive one hour in one direction. okay. So one hour in one direction for a couple clients and then one hour in the other direction. So if I have to see those two areas, two hours are already gone. So ⁓ girl, person, I don't know who you are. I feel you. I feel you. Okay. Or if I'm able to get 35 billables, will I be able to get five hours of indirect because I need 40 hours worth of pay? She said she can't afford it, and no other companies do that. ⁓ which I so it sounds like they're doing a lot of drive time. And so that's that is ⁓ lowering how many billables they're able to reach to, but they're not paying for drive time, is what I'm hearing here. And then this company is strict on RBT supervision. Okay. So I can't go ⁓ they're strict in the hmm. So I can't go over five percent supervision. And I have to share RBTs with other B C B A, so I'm barely supervising. So here's the piece right here where sometimes this is those of you who are techs, this is the piece sometimes that that it does stand in your B C B A. It's not always that your B C B A is not willingly provide supervision. Sometimes like things behind the scenes that you're not aware of that that speaker-1: Again, if you're not receiving the support, I can almost guarantee the BCBAs that are also working in that company do not feel supported. Yes. speaker-0: ⁓ so they're in they're in Florida. ⁓ okay, so so yeah, so I at one point when we had first moved to Northern Virginia, I was in a situation now. I was a I was a tech or whatever, but I was in a situation where I was driving more and there was a lot of like court order kind of services. And so a lot of times we would show up and like the they wouldn't even be there. A lot of refusals and things like that. So I sometimes I would spend an eight hour day driving around and knocking on doors and sitting in parking lots and not getting paid for it. ⁓ but I think I was also considered lit 1099 at the time. This was like 15 years ago, maybe even longer than 15 years ago. It's probably like a long long time ago. Anyways, but because of that experience, when we started ours, that was a big important thing. ⁓ for me as a clinician, that we We group people, like group clients together as much as possible. Now, we still had some B C B A's who at times would have to drive longer than I really wanted them to have to drive because there was a client that we needed to support. But we paid them for that. So they were in our salaries. speaker-1: Number one, you're you're supposed to get paid for drive time. Job site to job site. Look it up. You're you're supposed to get paid for drive time. Now, if you're working 35 to 40 billable hours a week, that that is insane. That that's ridiculous. Like ⁓ w with our salaried BCBAs, we were looking at twenty billable hours, is what we were hoping for. speaker-0: That was even lot. There were struggles there. speaker-1: So getting getting twice that was one person. You want to come work for us? Then then the other thing is that if you're getting forty billable hours a week, man, that's that's you're awesome. ⁓ plus you're working ⁓ driving two hours a day. So you're getting overtime now, right? So and if they say, Well, we don't pay for drive time and you don't have a drive time rate because they are legally required to pay you drive time, then you should be getting your billable hourly rate. For your drive time, unless they explicitly state they have a drive time rate. So that means you should be getting time and a half for those ⁓ 10 hours plus ⁓ anything over 40 for that week, you should be getting time and a half at your billable hourly rate unless they have explicitly stated non-billable hourly rates. So they do I see that there is seven hours indirect. ⁓ so maybe you have an indirect hourly rate. So then they would average those out and then they would pay you time and a half for that time. speaker-0: But but thirty-five to forty billable hours a week? Yeah. Like you can't that would be like eighty working hours. Like that. speaker-1: ridiculous. Yes, because that's billable hours. So or they're telling her him or her ⁓ that the for billing for things that they shouldn't be billing for, right? That's the other issue. What what exactly are they telling you to bill for? Because there may be unbillable things that you're billing for. So there's a speaker-0: Alright, so the person here said, Am I wrong or is it insane? You are not wrong, you are insane. All right, next. You are not sorry if I said that wrong. You are not wrong and you are not insane. Craziness. speaker-1: No no y he not insane. Yeah, if you are I don't I don't even know the dates on these things, right? We we've obviously taken the names off, even the anonymous names. so i if this is like recent and you actually randomly come across our podcast, reach out I will find you a better company. So just reach out. I will find you a great company to work for that you don't have to speaker-0: Say that to everybody. If you feel like we work with some amazing companies who are like, we need techs, we need B C BAs, people who have like the such an amazing system or set, and they're just ready to welcome some amazing people in their team. So reach out to us. Okay, next one. Okay, probably last one. I ⁓ don't even want to read this. Okay. speaker-1: Absolutely. speaker-0: My boss lied to me and ignores my communication after. Hey everyone. If you followed up on my last post, yeah, I don't know what the last post was. You'd see that I have mentioned that my company often accepts families for assessments, but will indirectly lie to them and tell them that they're going to be staffed soon. Once we find a therapist. speaker-1: Hi. I mean technically that's not a lot soon. And yeah, they are letting them know that once they find a speaker-0: have a therapist on, but maybe they're like saying it might be a couple of weeks when really it might be six months. I mean we don't know all the details. speaker-1: I mean it's starting off a little fishy. I'm just saying that it may not be necessarily a lie. speaker-0: They constantly accept new families but provide very little services, which often leads to the child waiting or having a very poor quality of service. This often frustrates the parent. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: As they are waiting long times and are almost desperate to start. Yeah, that's that's a really tough spot to be in. My boss simply just politely tells them we are looking and we'll do our best to find you someone soon. And yeah, I mean they speaker-1: Is a part of being trying to hire people. Yeah. speaker-0: But they never follow up on this, and the families end up waiting months, almost a year, because they don't know any better or going elsewhere. Yeah. I mean, it's I hear that the plot is about to thicken. but yeah, for those leaders out there, I mean, we like we're doing our best a lot of times, but it isn't important to communicate with families and when people when we had families, at least I had gosh, I hope we I hope we did as good as I feel like we did on this. But like we really tried to communicate and say, hey, It we're really struggling finding a tech or the tech that we just hired didn't show up and so we're back to square one trying to hire speaker-1: Here's the other thing that we did 'cause I I know we did this. speaker-0: Let me finish. Like we also said please feel free to hear here's some other ⁓ providers in the area. Like don't w wait for us. If you find somebody else that you can get services with sooner, go for it. speaker-1: And we talked to some really good providers in our area and we would share our wait lists. Like as long as the f obviously this is HIPAA, PH, but we would say, Hey, we've got a family this time of day, this insurance, ⁓ can you work with them? ⁓ and then you know, we would see if we could set that up. So yeah, so like wait lists are our common issue in in this ⁓ field because there's just not enough techs or B C B A's. ⁓ or Behavior analysts, I guess I should be saying PC. I'm not allowed to say that. ⁓ anyways, so that is an issue, but yeah, a year on a wait list, like there should be some kind of external referral process. Okay. Yes. Dun dun done. speaker-0: So here's where the plot thick. There is never a mention of a wait list, neither to the BCBA staff nor the family. So when I followed up about one case and why the child has been waiting eight months without any therapist put on the case, he told me that he had spoken to the family and informed them of everything, but the family had called me and told me this was false. They never had gotten any communication from my boss or agency. I can't help but feel like this little fib or detail is a big red flag. Yeah, yeah, I would call it a red flag. I'd want to I would want to investigate further and get curious about this, or either just go somewhere else. In addition to the other little red flags and fibs I've noticed, my boss also refuses to discuss this after I confronted them and will not reply to me. What would you do? I think transparency is very important, especially when your name is on all of the important documents. speaker-1: Yeah. So again, we're we're advocating for these clients, especially if you've done an assessment for them. And my again, this would be where I would come at it from is a leadership standpoint and say there's no wait list. I'm going to create one. And at least for the families that I see, I have a running tally, right? Of okay, I saw I did this assessment on this day, and I know that there are there is no one in place. And then you can come with that data, right? You can say, look, I have done this, it has to stop, right? We have to do this differently, suggest ways that it can be done differently. but yeah, this like again, you are bound by your ethics. And if you are constantly doing assessments, but you have no availability to do ongoing therapy, I'm pretty sure that's not allowed. So you have to let your boss know that I cannot maintain my. ⁓ license and continue doing this because it only has teeth if the people that have the license or the certification or whatever it's called ⁓ actually follow it. So that that that would be my recommendation. ⁓ like, you know, there isn't there isn't ⁓ you know like one of the posts said, is there like a petition that I can no, it's your ethics. That's what you stand by. It's already written. There's no petition needed. You Print out the ethics and say this is a violation of my ethics. I cannot perform this task in this way. We need to do this differently. How are we going to do this differently? And if the answer is we're not going to do this differently, then you say I can't do this ethically. And then they've they've made their answer. They're firing you because you cannot do this, right? Or you're quitting. Right. Yeah. Like, no, they are they are saying you have been terminated because you cannot perform your duty. speaker-0: Yeah, I see what you mean there. speaker-1: Yes. And and so that's it. That's their decision. It's not your decision. Your decision is that I want to stay in this field. This is important to me. I must follow the ethics. And and mm there may be a dispute between what does this part of the ethics mean, right? And we can have a dispute and there can be a disagreement. And then you email the the ethics hotline, right? And talk to Bailey and his team. and come up with a solution, but there has to be a solution here, right? There has to be a way that this gets done without the red flags, without the ⁓ ethics issues. Would you would you agree with that? So yeah, I I would urge you all to take the lead. You are yeah, you yeah. I if if you don't take it seriously, no one's gonna take it seriously. ⁓ speaker-0: Percent. speaker-1: So you have to push back against these. You have to advocate for yourself and the kids that you work with, children with that you work with. This is a really important job. and you guys are awesome and amazing. And there are too many companies that are pushing you to do things that you don't necessarily want to do. And again, we can look under the hood, right? And and there may be a lot of moving parts. Rates are awful and horrible. You can't get ⁓ qualified people. ⁓ on a timely basis, right? They think they're gonna get somebody, but that person ghosts them too, right? There are a lot of things that happen as owners as well. And I totally under I've been there. That's why we're no longer owners. So ⁓ but there there are ways that this can be done better. Again, we see it every day. We coach people through this. And so but it it's important that if you're if you're not following your ethics, the only person that can say Stop that from happening is you. The board is not gonna save you. ⁓ like no, no one's coming. No, I'm sorry. I wish. I don't actually. You have to get yourself into a better situation by advocating for yourself, for your staff, for your clients. speaker-0: I have no other words to say. Might drop for you. All right. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. speaker-1: And if you like this content, subscribe and if we should do this more often, maybe we will. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, let us know if you like us. We'll do it more often. All right. Bye everyone. Yeah.