Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / 15yr Old sent to Adult Prison for 45yrs- Carlos Rebollo

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15yr Old sent to Adult Prison for 45yrs- Carlos Rebollo · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
0:05
Welcome to the nightmare success in and out podcast.
0:08
Where we explore a, how to overcome your fears.
0:11
And Nightmares is set yourself free.
0:13
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:15
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:20
These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
0:24
humor but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
0:27
that'll help you knock down some of the prisons.
0:29
You It up in your own mind. All right, now I'm more success
0:34
in and out listeners. We're back.
0:35
And man, am I excited for the guests?
0:38
I have today with Carlos for Billy.
0:39
Oh, just to give you a piece of what this guy is about, at the
0:47
age of 15. He was sentenced to 45 years in
0:50
the state of Connecticut prison. He served 24 years of that
0:54
prison sentence. I didn't even know that you
0:57
could go to prison when you're 15 years old and P, put an
0:59
adult. Population, that's news to me
1:01
and I've been to prison. During his incarceration, he
1:06
earned an associate's degree in Psychology, became a student of
1:09
Yale University and the University of New Haven, HBO has
1:14
contacted him and they're doing a documentary on his life
1:17
because it's so fascinating. He's now out released, he's been
1:23
out for three months and he's a full-time student at the
1:26
University of New Haven. He's pursuing a bachelor's
1:29
degree in the multi-platform journalism and I've got to tell
1:32
you, I've read Read a lot about Carlos and it's just it's such a
1:36
cool story how he when he was in.
1:39
He just made a change with these mentors that you got with and
1:44
man, everything that he did after that, I can't wait to jump
1:47
into how someone can change their mindset change.
1:50
The way that they view their life and how they move forward
1:53
in that he started, reaching out making phone calls and write
1:56
letters and getting connected way before we ever got out of
1:58
prison to get a head, start in his life.
2:02
He's now sharing his story. Help others.
2:03
And Carlos is real inspiration. Before we get into this, we're
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3:03
Cam, tell them, Brent, from Nightmare success, since you.
3:06
All right, folks, let's jump into this.
3:09
Carlos were boyo. Welcome.
3:10
My man. Thanks for being here.
3:15
Thank you for inviting me on brand, it's an honor.
3:18
I'm glad to continue spreading the message, and then line and
3:21
people on my story so that they can deal with their success is
3:25
possible with our abilities. You have to give a shout out to
3:27
Travis Richey Cooper connecting. That's right.
3:30
Travis and Travis the other day said, hey I need to connect you
3:36
to Carlos and Travis has an incredible story for those.
3:42
He was a nightmares. Success on like six or seven
3:46
podcast ago, go check that one out, Travis Richey, but he
3:49
connected me in a Carlos and said he's got a great story.
3:51
Needs to get on nightmare success.
3:53
It's a nightmare success story. So Carlos man.
3:56
Thanks for being here. We had, we did a little redo.
4:03
This is our second time around because Carlos was breaking up
4:06
on his internet and he had such a powerful answer to the
4:10
beginning of this thing that I said.
4:12
Whoa, whoa. Got to start.
4:13
We got to start over. So this is their second time
4:17
around. So Carlos first of all man you
4:21
made it. You're out and what a way that
4:25
you got out, and I like I said, I really didn't understand until
4:31
I started reading about your story that you could go into
4:34
prison at 15 years old, be with adults and and serve.
4:40
I mean, you basically served more time than you had been
4:43
Alive in prison which is you know, fascinating and I know
4:48
you're working on a lot of things right now on why that
4:51
needs to change and legislation on.
4:54
Why somebody at that age, doesn't they not supposed to be
5:00
in that environment? But I want to go back Carlos
5:04
because you were 15 when this happened to you.
5:09
But what was going on before this?
5:12
How did Carlos end up at 15 years old going into prison with
5:16
adults? What was life like for you
5:19
growing up as a kid You know, it's a great question and it's a
5:24
great place to start at the child.
5:27
My situation was in unique, it was naked the reality of every
5:31
single child in the world, I was naturally curious.
5:34
I wanted to understand the world around me and I was, depending
5:39
on people to provide me with the kind of guidance that will help
5:42
me develop into a healthy human being.
5:44
Unfortunately, my mother was abusive and my father was a
5:49
drug-addicted violent, man and I grew up Hop around parents
5:53
listeners and chaos and it made me feel an attic without the
5:57
first piece. I mean, I didn't know what it
5:59
was expected of me. I didn't know what would get me
6:02
beat, but we're getting yelled at for will give me ridiculed or
6:06
punished or something. Very interesting happened that
6:09
struck me, deeply. And that was when I was sent to
6:12
school and I started to learn how to read, and I felt like
6:16
there was something about the world that was within my
6:18
control, and I thought it to read everything that I could get
6:21
my hands on. Anything that my eyes would come
6:23
across. I would just read it and say to
6:26
myself my God, like I can understand something.
6:29
The problem was when I would go back to my home environment, I
6:33
would get presented with the opposite sense of self and so,
6:37
the sellers of inadequacy would happen again and early on there
6:41
was a tension that was building up within you.
6:43
And I had to find a way to deal with that tension.
6:47
And eventually, I found myself in the position where I started
6:51
asking Not specifically. But as a child you know these
6:55
thoughts run in many different manners and you get kind of a
6:58
sense of the impression that you're hinting on rather than
7:01
the specificity of what's going on at the moment.
7:05
And so, in my mind what was going on with the question that
7:09
could the child that I love the studious.
7:12
Curious optimistic child, that goes to school, continue to
7:17
survive in the environment that I was being exposed to at home
7:22
and the So we have decided that he couldn't run along and, you
7:26
know, I remember thinking to myself along the line.
7:29
So if this is what the world wants for me and by the world, I
7:33
meant the little space that I was in but there's that the
7:36
child you can't isolate that kind of experience.
7:40
I generalize it to the entire world and I said, if this is
7:43
what's best for me in a violence, the senselessness the
7:47
chaos and this is what I'm going to get them and I'm going to
7:51
give it to them in a way. A way that is better than the
7:53
way they're giving it to me. And that set me up for a lot of
7:57
failure like early on, so, you were, and did you I meant to ask
8:01
you, did you have any siblings, brothers sisters in this
8:04
environment? Yes, it would four-bedroom
8:08
apartment with eight siblings and to parents.
8:13
Wow, where'd you fall under that order of kids?
8:16
I was the second. Oldest guy with the second.
8:20
So if I remember reading about your background, you kind of
8:26
fell out of school, like around fifth grade, right?
8:30
Last week, I completed before being incarcerated.
8:32
Yes, this is so pretty, so what? A fifth grader out of school,
8:37
do. He I start, I would start
8:44
answering that question by saying that early on I started
8:47
developing values that were very primitive and their nature.
8:51
And so, I started paying attention to this pain and
8:56
further and further into the streets and criminal thinking
9:00
criminal activity. And the interesting thing about
9:04
that is I want to tell a story that has to do with a bit of
9:08
racism because it has a lot to do with my crime.
9:11
And so my first introduction into racism was when I was
9:14
coming back from school with my cousin and there were young
9:17
African-American children in the playground and he says to me,
9:20
you know, we have to take the long way home.
9:22
We can take the shortcut today because they're over there, I
9:24
said, well, what's wrong with them?
9:25
He said we just can't go through there.
9:27
So I told him, well, you can go wherever you want, but I'm
9:30
taking a short way home and he was like, okay, go ahead.
9:33
So the clothes are, I got to be young children.
9:37
The more they started approaching me.
9:40
And so I thought that there was something off, but it didn't
9:42
quite click in my mind, so I can continue to approach and
9:45
suddenly we both stopped and I knew what was going to happen.
9:48
So they started to change me and I started to run.
9:51
Now, every time I would encounter them there, was this
9:54
idea in the neighborhood that Puerto Ricans don't like black
9:59
and black stone. Like, for leaking, I never
10:01
bought into it. I never could understand it.
10:03
I just knew that I had to fight whenever I would encounter our
10:06
farm Young. An American because I know that
10:09
they were going to try to hurt me.
10:10
So when I started to sell drugs and adopt into the culture and
10:16
buy into the idea that were prevalent around that, I because
10:21
I wanted to fit in gave in to this notion that white people
10:25
were the problem, and so I've never had any problems with
10:28
white people, in general. My violence came from
10:31
interacting with Hispanic and African Americans, but
10:34
interestingly enough because I wanted to fit in.
10:37
Now all of a sudden, the idea that white people were the
10:39
problem became interested interesting to me and because I
10:43
was in an emotional mess, and I have gave up on my mind and
10:46
thinking, that, the only thing for was that for me We're my
10:50
emotion. And so I adopted this idea that
10:53
yes in order to fit in with the homeboys, hang out, be cool.
10:58
Then I couldn't like what data in like in this allowed us all
11:02
to click in a way that even though it was unhealthy and it
11:05
was in good for us. It kept us together in a very
11:09
negative and counterproductive way.
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And so now I'm not only projected that the world was
11:16
completely for math but now that white people were also to blame
11:20
For that mess rather than my parents, rather than the values
11:23
are adopted, rather than the criminal lifestyle, I was
11:26
leading and I just started to hone in and isolate on these
11:30
things that made me. Dehumanize other people in the
11:34
way that let me to commit the crime that I committed and we
11:39
can lead right into that now, because I think it's important
11:41
to mention is that I assaulted an elderly white woman because I
11:47
knew that she had guns in the house, It's all I focus on was
11:51
breaking into the house and getting the guns.
11:54
No matter who was in there, what is disgusting about it?
11:58
Brent, is that I know to this day in my heart of hearts that
12:02
if it was a black woman or Hispanic woman in there, I would
12:05
have just did what I did at all. And this is the problem that
12:10
people don't understand. When they preach these races
12:13
thing to their children, when they're growing up, they don't
12:16
understand that. I children, we Make distinctions
12:21
for you, no relation. When something exposed to as we
12:25
take it in this Potala tea and interpret it, however we want.
12:29
So when somebody tells me why people are the problem, they
12:31
don't have to tell me why they just have to point to a person
12:35
and their color and is all red from there.
12:39
Yeah. And you know, that's sad to say
12:42
but it's the truth and I want to make it clear that these some
12:46
things that are being spoken about racism even as a child
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when they Probably White America at the whole, my sample was one
12:54
of the consequences that children and that when they
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don't have that kind of guidance and their priests at an early
13:03
age. Well, I think any of those
13:04
things that happen, Carlos aware, you're talking about it,
13:06
that age or so impressionable. And you know, from who you are
13:12
with places, you are the environment that you're like,
13:16
you said your small world of how you perceive things.
13:20
Things. That's how you were growing up
13:22
in it. And, you know, it's, it's, you
13:27
can be dangerous with words, there's no doubt about it.
13:29
And clearly, you know, labeling people on different sides, can
13:36
can end up to be a dangerous environment.
13:40
IDE reminds me of Darryl Woods that was on this program and he
13:46
was wrongly convicted of murder, but he made real change when he
13:49
was in prison. But when he got Up, he created
13:53
this Better Together program, where police officers and gang
13:58
members got together to break bread, basically to have a
14:01
barbecue, but neither one of them knew that they were gang
14:04
members or police officers. They just were there to shoot
14:07
horse, play a little basketball cornhole, whatever.
14:10
And then they would then eat and kind of be in a circle and they
14:15
then were introduced to the fact that they were on opposite
14:19
sides. It's, but they realized that
14:21
they had a whole lot more in common, not knowing who each
14:25
other were, then automatically assuming that they're bad on
14:29
both sides and it really reminds me of that.
14:31
Carlos is what you're talking about.
14:33
If you see somebody a certain way, instead of really
14:36
understanding, you know, what's their background and what's
14:40
their story, how did they get here, without knowing any of
14:44
that? And just assuming something it
14:46
causes, it's just such a bad shortcut.
14:49
So, So going back into what you're saying.
14:52
Carlos, you you committed this crime.
14:55
At a very young age. It's a bad.
14:57
One were you immediately investigated arrested.
15:02
How did they, how did you get into the hands of the law
15:07
enforcement? Well, I ran out of the house and
15:15
I had, you know, blood on me. And so when I saw my younger
15:18
brother, I decided to switch close to them, and I told them
15:21
my 13 year old brother to burn the clothes.
15:25
And the next day I got arrested because I had assaulted a
15:31
teacher prior to that. So my parole officer came into
15:35
my old house where I was living with my mother and handcuffed me
15:39
while I was asleep. And Took me back to a
15:42
correctional facility of juvenile, correctional facility.
15:46
Meanwhile, my brother I'm not aware of because he thinks that
15:50
I killed somebody, and he sold the press that in school.
15:54
They set them aside and they start asking him questions about
15:57
what's wrong with them. And he states that I was
16:00
arrested for murdering someone and they started digging into
16:05
that. And he started talking to them.
16:08
And I said, we're Soul, Suspect escapes, the correctional Leti.
16:11
I was in question me, I gave them a confession and I was
16:16
charged since the juvenile facility before judge.
16:19
He determined that the case was so serious, that it deserved to
16:23
go before an adult court. So I always transferred to the
16:25
adult for a record and I was tried as an adult where I was
16:29
sentenced to 45 years and they shouldn't you for assault.
16:36
They sentenced me for tempted murder and arson.
16:39
First and arson. And that was a 45-year sentence
16:44
at 15 years old. Yeah. 20 for the attempted
16:47
murder. 25 for the arson 21 consecutive.
16:52
So what Carlos do you think in your mind 15 years old when they
17:00
tell you that you are looking at 45 years in prison What's going
17:06
through your mind? There's no way to explain that
17:10
because the processing was so disintegrated.
17:14
There was no way of me, connecting any point, I had no
17:17
references at all. And so I was up in the air but
17:22
what I did know that was early on, I got an impression that
17:25
what they were doing was wrong and I got it by one of the very
17:29
jurors who are supposed to be a peer of mine.
17:34
And it's supposed to actually be judging me according to the law
17:38
and this young woman stood up and when the prosecutor was
17:41
telling her, the kind of time that I could face, if I lost
17:45
trial, that woman, told them, you know, what do you expect me
17:51
to sit here and actually judge a fifteen-year-old that you're
17:55
considering certain 25 years? She said, absolutely not.
18:00
I cannot be for a partial to that there's no way and so I'm
18:04
being I'm sitting here, I'm thinking I did something
18:06
heinous. I committed a horrible crime and
18:09
I have to serve the entire law to come on my head because this
18:13
is the impression that I was being given and all of a sudden
18:16
Here Comes This lady and completely gives me the
18:18
impression there. Wait a minute, something is
18:21
wrong with you. Something is wrong here?
18:23
That people are not telling me. And then throughout my
18:25
incarceration, I started doing the research and I find that in
18:29
1944 14 year old was electrified.
18:34
Executed. In 1944 fourteen-year-old, then
18:39
in 1988 of 15 year old was sentenced to death in the
18:43
Supreme Court overturned. That case fading, that facing
18:47
the perfect consistency, the virtue of consistency, they
18:53
stated 66, they would be crazy and I'll put it in my own terms.
18:59
They said it would be crazy to sentence.
19:02
Someone who Society has already determined to not exhaust all of
19:06
the right. Are given to regular old soul.
19:09
It's like what early in his briefs and I'm like a minute.
19:12
There's no problem here. I want sentence would be idea
19:15
that Justice is being carried out and that I should be held
19:19
accountable and what I found throughout my arm incarceration
19:23
is that the very people that are trying to hold me, accountable
19:26
are earlier than they contradicted.
19:27
All kinds of laws that they're claiming are in the best
19:30
interest of Justice to hold me accountable and I found out very
19:34
problematic in the beginning. Wow.
19:37
So you do you go, I'm kind of curious how this all happened
19:42
for you. As far as even transport, you go
19:44
from this world, getting sentenced as a fifteen-year-old.
19:48
Do you go directly to a what kind of prison?
19:55
So, I was sent to a facility that houses. 14.
20:02
They could houses young as twelve year old, okay?
20:06
All the way to 22 year olds, okay?
20:09
And then as soon as I turned 18, they transfer you over to a
20:14
prison that house people from 18 years old all the way to 60. 70,
20:19
men, serving, life sentences. Had already been incarcerated
20:23
for 20, 30, 40 years. Well, so when you want Carlos,
20:28
when you went in there to that world, Did you know people in
20:32
that world because you had been out on the streets?
20:34
I mean, you had been in an environment where people were
20:37
going in and out of prison. What were their people there at
20:42
your age that you were familiar with when you walked into that?
20:47
No. Yeah, absolutely.
20:48
Immediately the connections were made from, you know, friends of
20:51
mine that I saw in the street that I knew were being locked up
20:54
for drug or serious violent offenses.
20:58
And, you know, I was right back in the world that I live in.
21:00
In. Yeah, but it didn't, it didn't
21:02
help at all, Brent that my first impression of coming into the
21:06
Department of Corrections was from a correctional officer that
21:10
for me, but as the symbol of responsibility of respect of
21:15
integrity and I'm thinking to myself, like this is the thing,
21:19
like the big leagues here. I'm about to be corrected.
21:22
I'm about to be set straight and immediately I've met with an
21:26
officer that tells you or you like to beat women, They're
21:30
going to have fun with me here. And so in my mind, the click is
21:35
okay. We're going to see them now is
21:37
not so much about got to set myself straight now.
21:39
It's I'm going to show you who's really a badass in this
21:43
situation and so immediately, whatever idea I had of these
21:47
officers staying in that Central Square, we're completely done
21:51
away with. Because here's a man that's
21:53
being paid to not only opposed and completely eliminate the
21:57
kind of violence that he's talking about.
21:59
Promoting them getting all for me and telling me that is going
22:03
to happen to you. And so I was met with female
22:07
officers who were being fired for engaging in sexual conduct
22:11
with inmates male officers. Who again, fire for Contraband?
22:15
I mean, I was called the homosexual by female officers to
22:18
not engage in the sexual conduct with them.
22:20
I was called this Niche by correctional officers male
22:23
officers for reporting on. There are professional practices
22:27
and also I would call the trader by enemies, which are To live a
22:30
responsible life. So I didn't know what to do with
22:32
all of that. Well, I remember reading and I
22:35
can't remember if this was when you went into this world or if
22:38
it was after you transfer, but you, you had a really rough
22:42
entry into solitary confinement, was that, am I talking and
22:47
thinking the same? It was just the same time.
22:49
Period, where you, you immediately went to solitary
22:52
confinement, had no connection with anybody, family know what
22:55
anywhere immediately. So their idea of protecting me.
23:00
What the put me in solitary confinement for seven days and
23:04
told me that because my bomb was five hundred thousand dollars.
23:07
And I had a violent crime, then I would have to be placed on
23:11
high security. So from solitary confinement,
23:14
they moving me to high security unit surrounded by security risk
23:18
groups, which are gang members, who are older than me and drive
23:21
on violence and the expectation. Was that somehow, I behaved
23:25
myself. So I ended up fighting about
23:28
three of those gang members. And then God said to a place
23:31
called chronic discipline where you're there for six months and
23:35
is Phase 1 and you have to remain compliant, this requires
23:40
me to actually be handcuffed every time I'm outside myself,
23:44
take a shower while I'm here in cuffs and, you know, be locked
23:48
in the cell 23 hours a day without any electronic without
23:52
any commissaries at all. And remember that you're
23:56
supposed to have, you know, you know, Carlos, I've never even
23:58
heard of Because I've heard a lot of different guys going to
24:01
the hole and then they get to take a shower like three times a
24:04
week or whatever and I've never heard of people being handcuffed
24:09
father taking their shower. I mean, that that is a whole
24:12
nother form of punishment and restraint, and your 23 in one
24:19
out, right? And that solitary confinement 23
24:22
hours of one Yes, that's it. That's absolutely no 15 and I'm
24:28
15. And this is supposed to be a
24:31
juvenile facility. Yeah.
24:33
So I won't have to be seated supposed to be a juvenile
24:36
facility and this is how they're treating us and, you know, can
24:40
get the impression from all that.
24:41
I'm supposed to look for myself and that I'm the problem.
24:45
Given those conditions is hard for me to focus on my character
24:49
without looking at what they're doing to me at all.
24:53
And so So I remember that in one particular instance, I couldn't
24:58
be moved to phase two because I was on compliant and I was on
25:02
compliant because I didn't smile them didn't smile enough.
25:06
It is small enough, I didn't have a positive attitude because
25:09
I didn't small enough. And so when I asked him about
25:12
this and I challenged it they told me this is not a joke in
25:15
order for you to move the space, to you have to improve on your
25:18
attitude and you don't smell him.
25:22
And so early on, like I knew, I knew this place was the problem
25:28
and not so much, you know, my being a criminal.
25:32
So the As you move along and you're dealing with years here.
25:37
So, you know, I have a hard time putting that into my world head
25:43
because I was sentenced to five years.
25:45
And I can't imagine doing any more time than that of what my
25:49
sentence was but you were Years into your prison experience and
25:56
you ran across a couple of guys that I guess the biggest way
26:02
that I can explain it is, is they really changed your world
26:06
into the fact that you were doing really hard time?
26:10
You weren't It was tough. And and these guys came along
26:15
and you were like, well why are you guys?
26:17
So you know, what's there to be happy about and You by talking
26:21
to them and getting to know them, you started to learn that
26:24
there's choices regardless of these.
26:26
Some of these guys were doing life that you were talking to,
26:28
but can you explain a little bit of how this happened?
26:31
Because one of the things that I always talk about, is, you know,
26:35
humbling yourself looking around, seeing people who are
26:37
getting it right, in an effect, you kind of did this Carlos,
26:41
you? Were asking how do, how are you
26:44
doing this? Why are you happy?
26:46
Why do you feel this way? And these guys really took you
26:50
under their wing, No, they did and you know you speak about
26:55
nightmares success. This is where we're going to get
26:58
into, you know, real nightmare of My Success because I started
27:03
setting goals for myself. I started asking myself
27:06
questions that I wouldn't allow myself anymore and I would
27:09
bypass my emotion by making myself when critically and tell
27:14
myself that it didn't matter what I sell the important thing
27:18
was to focus on doing what's right?
27:20
So that completely set me in a position.
27:22
Ian for Success like never before, and I started getting a
27:25
job. I started saving up money on.
27:27
It came from, our moon associate's degree, and I
27:30
started looking for people who reflected the kind of person
27:33
that I wanted to be and the kind of and I came across these two
27:38
man. By that time I had accomplished
27:40
many program rehabilitative programs in the Department of
27:43
Corrections. So I thought to myself, I must
27:46
successfully, you know, I'm doing great.
27:48
I haven't caught a disciplinary ticket in so long.
27:50
I haven't had a fight. I'm not getting in trouble.
27:54
I'm doing great. When I met these men, they were
27:57
doing great. They were cellmates for 11 years
28:01
together, they will read them books.
28:02
They were challenging themselves, they were
28:04
instituting programs in the Department of Corrections.
28:06
They were writing books. They were challenging policy and
28:09
practices, and I'm completely walled by these men.
28:12
And so, I gravitated to them, and one of the first things that
28:15
they told me was, Carlos, you're a criminal, you still have
28:20
criminal Tendencies and they saw, It has given me book that
28:24
enlighten me and let me know while this is correct.
28:28
What? I didn't expect the wagon and
28:34
we'll listen. If you want to be successful you
28:37
have to stop buying into the ideas.
28:40
That the Department of Correction is teaching you to
28:42
their program. They are not reflective of the
28:46
real life. Is there are going for wages if
28:51
you don't prepare yourself properly, Properly for society.
28:54
And so they actually show how the program and the philosophy
29:00
in those programs are just setting me up for failure
29:03
because they're only hitting on the very, very minimum of what's
29:08
required of a person to be successful.
29:10
Which is Criminal thinking that's it.
29:15
So, for example, is if I had a drug problem, all that was
29:20
required for me, with, to address my drug problem.
29:22
And I would be great if I was a bad dad, all I have to do is
29:26
become a great parent. If I had an anger issue, all
29:30
that required for me, was the deal with my anger issues and
29:33
I'd be great. The problem with that, is that
29:35
that information is not connected is not integrated at
29:39
all. And so, depending on what Graham
29:41
you go to tell you that this is your problem but they don't
29:45
actually connected to anything else.
29:48
That's interesting. So what I caught ya, what I
29:50
started to do was do them. I thought it to actually get
29:54
into the core of what my problem was and it was that I live on
30:01
violin hydride on criminal thinking, I thrived on giving
30:05
people the impression that I will change person when I
30:08
wasn't. And so if you don't connect All
30:11
of these things in a way that keeps it, focus on who you are
30:16
and what you love to do, what your values are.
30:18
You'll constantly point the finger and say, oh, it's because
30:22
of the drug do it because I was a bad father.
30:24
Oh, it's because I didn't have a job and so on and so forth.
30:29
No, the problem is see, how do I get at the core of challenging?
30:33
The very values that are five required, a completely different
30:37
philosophy that Focus or responsibility rather than books
30:41
victim. Versus accountability and
30:43
challenge rather than catering distributed.
30:46
Sympathy and actually, like, lowering the ball in every
30:51
single thing that required me to challenge myself.
30:54
That blew my door. When complete Carlos, I want to
30:57
stop right there because I want to get into Howard Dean.
31:00
You connected those dots because I think that is the secret sauce
31:05
to how you get to the next step. And, and because you did connect
31:10
all those dots. So let's take a quick break.
31:13
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I could have used Aaron. Duncan back in my day for crisis
32:32
management. So Carlos, let's Go back here
32:36
because I want to put the pieces together because what you were
32:39
doing was what you thought you should be doing.
32:43
You went through all the programming, you were getting
32:45
all the certificates that they give you.
32:48
You know, I went through our depth, there was a federal
32:50
program and that gives you a year off and there was all
32:53
behavioral rational thinking and, you know, your Criminal
32:57
Mind Set, and all the different things that they roll into that.
32:59
And that's not a bad program, it depends on who's teaching that
33:03
program so when you started figure it out, with your mentors
33:11
that What had really happened in your life?
33:15
You know, that you were had all this balled up inside of you.
33:18
But you there was a person down in that soul that wanted to
33:21
break out and you didn't want to be the criminal thinking guy,
33:24
you wanted to be Carlos. How did you start breaking that
33:28
away? What tools did you use?
33:32
First I had to be willing to face like myself in the mirror
33:37
and say, okay, I created a heinous crime is crime.
33:41
I attempted to take the life of an innocent person.
33:44
What does that say about me? And I don't mean what the
33:47
Democrats are saying, or what the Republicans are saying, or
33:50
what Society is saying, is so what does it actually mean to be
33:54
a criminal? And so, I came across a book
33:57
that was given to me by the by my mentor, they would call it
34:00
called inside the Criminal Mind by the Is that me standing up in
34:04
any detail, all of the criminal thinking errors that I needed to
34:09
challenge in order to start making change.
34:12
Now, the essential thing about it is that you emphasize is
34:16
exposure. And so you have to constantly
34:19
exposed these things to somebody else so that you don't fool
34:23
yourself into believing that you're making changes while
34:25
you're not. So one of the thinking here with
34:28
was power orientation, And I always had this sense that I
34:33
needed to get Pavel. I have to think that I was
34:36
doing. And so if you ask me, why did
34:37
you go into the house? Why did you want the gun?
34:39
I would tell you that. I needed it for protection in
34:42
the street because I didn't know who had a gun and they were
34:44
going to shoot me, but that's bull crap.
34:46
What? I wanted was to feel a sense of
34:48
power because I know that having a gun by T with s.
34:52
Right. And so that's the kind of
34:53
thinking that you have to go through in order to get at the
34:56
root of the issue. The second thing was victims,
34:59
can see, this is a criminal think in here.
35:01
With that completely surrounded, my life.
35:04
And so, I was never the problem that was always have Well, even
35:08
in the early age, we can talk about childhood development.
35:11
We can talk about how the brain is not, you know, fully
35:16
developed compared to analysis, adult and that children are very
35:19
impressionable, but I recall many children around my age,
35:23
seeing what I was doing and telling me you're out of your
35:26
mind, I want to have to do, we nothing to do with you and what
35:29
you're doing. I'm going to go to school and
35:31
I'm going to think about my future.
35:33
And so early on, I had these examples and these Impressions
35:36
that let We know that I was doing wrong even though I wanted
35:40
to convince myself that he's the kind of thing that I had to go
35:45
in my mind when I was thinking about such a thinking performing
35:48
criminal thinking error as victims, the other one is
35:53
intimate and this is a criminal thinking error that many inmates
36:00
have in the Department of Corrections when they're
36:02
presented with information. That's challenging work is
36:05
negative. Cognitive indolence He says to
36:08
the information. Hold that information is stupid
36:11
rather than actually say, no, you don't understand it.
36:14
And you don't want to put in the necessary effort that's required
36:17
to understand it because you're just lazy mentally.
36:20
So, get up off your ass was necessary to understand because
36:25
information is everywhere, it's your responsibility to interpret
36:29
it correctly and use it to make the proper decisions to guide
36:32
your life. And so, these are just three
36:34
examples that require me to Push me on the programming that we're
36:38
going on in the institution and say to myself.
36:41
Wait a minute. Like this is very simple stuff
36:45
that's being taught in the department of corrections and
36:47
because I've never achieved anything in my life.
36:50
Since the bar is set so low, whatever.
36:52
I achieve is gonna seem like a great accomplishments.
36:55
I mean, because it's being provided by the very people who
36:57
are telling me that I have to meet those standards in order to
37:00
be fit to return back to society.
37:03
The problem is that now that sense for all signals to
37:06
everybody up there. And so it's our minimum, the
37:09
Department of Corrections that's already failing and the parole
37:12
board is dependent on the department of corrections to
37:15
present the accurate, depiction of who I am.
37:18
As a person when I go before the parole board, and I have all
37:20
these certificates, the parole board.
37:22
The same. Oh great.
37:24
It will be done. Let him go.
37:26
Put the certificates, don't reflect who I am as a person.
37:29
And so if I don't take the programming and I oppose them,
37:32
and I'm being successful in their eyes are having fun.
37:35
And if I don't I mean, if I do do it and I'm not successful to
37:40
them, they think I've done great and so they release me.
37:43
And when I get out into society, you haven't changed first.
37:48
The game is all at, so all the pressure and Italians are coming
37:51
and because I don't have the necessary qualities or the
37:54
skills in me to face those challenges.
37:57
I'm back. Where I am, I think Society is
37:59
the problem, and the Department of Correction is back to doing
38:02
the scientific work for me again.
38:04
And I'm back where I started and I have no idea what's going on.
38:07
And that's what it is. Just the complete, and that's
38:09
why there's two thirds of go back in three years, and three
38:12
fourths of go back and 5 because that cycle doesn't solve the
38:16
real. The rehabilitation is our system
38:22
is punishment Rehabilitation, and Rehabilitation of what
38:25
you're thinking? Carlos is what you did.
38:28
You went through and said why on my this way?
38:30
What can I do to change it? And the responsibility is mine.
38:34
It's not somebody else's and caring.
38:37
These certificates around, doesn't mean it changed me.
38:39
So I think what you're saying is so deep because it's in, it's so
38:44
true that you have to first look at yourself and say, what am I
38:49
doing, why am I doing it? And how can I change that to be
38:54
the person I want to be and you went through those steps?
38:57
I mean, that's, that's not easy to do.
39:00
First of all for somebody to say, listen up, I am who I am.
39:04
Why am I this way? Can I change it?
39:07
If I can am I if I am I strong enough to get through to make
39:12
the change? No yes.
39:15
Absolutely. And there's a big difference
39:16
between between saying, you know, I'm a drug addict, I'm a
39:19
bad father and I have anger issues rather than saying I like
39:24
being a bad father, I love using drugs and I love being high on
39:30
drugs and you know this distance big big different perspective on
39:35
how you look at that because the emphasis is placed Vaughn
39:37
responsibility rather than on circumstances outside yourself.
39:41
And so I think it's important to mention also grant that when I
39:45
started investigating the root of my problem and how the
39:49
Department of Corrections was in addressing that problem, I
39:53
understood my change in three different phases and so the
39:57
first phase consisted of this idea, this very premature idea
40:01
of change that has to do with as long as I stay out of trouble.
40:05
I'll be great, doesn't matter. And this is what the Department
40:08
of Correction preaches. Stay out of trouble.
40:10
That's it don't bother us. Don't break the rules to stay
40:13
out of trouble. Correct.
40:14
The problem with that is that I found it's a passive State and
40:19
while I'm being passive and staying out of trouble, that's
40:22
not going to create the kind of character that I need.
40:25
In order to be successful, all is telling me is that there are
40:29
problems out there in the world and I have to stay away from
40:31
them because I am not the problem.
40:34
So it reinforces the very thing that they're has to be
40:37
eliminated and then I moved on to the second c 2.
40:40
S face holds onto the idea that all I have to do is stay out of
40:44
trouble. But now I'm engaging in
40:47
productive and positive things in order that I are going to go
40:51
back to that trouble. So now the incentive is Twisted.
40:54
Now, what's propelling me? Forward is the very thing that I
40:57
should be eliminating. The problem with that is they
41:00
create with alternative because in my mind now I'm telling
41:03
myself, there's only two options in life either.
41:05
I'm successful. Why Back to a life of crime, but
41:09
normal citizens. Don't let that way.
41:11
You don't wake up every day and say I'm going to do my podcast
41:14
because I'm afraid that I might violate somebody else's, right?
41:18
Or I'm going to invest in my children because I don't want to
41:22
go back to prison. All right?
41:24
So it's unrealistic and at worst would have been me.
41:27
Is that it plays much more emphasis on what's not being
41:31
done, rather than what is and so, getting a job is not as
41:34
important as not committing a crime.
41:37
Up in healthy relationships. It's not as important as not
41:40
trying to Vale somebody else's rights or getting in the high
41:43
for committing crimes and it just Twisted completely this
41:47
idea. And so I said to myself, I'm
41:49
going to get rid of that. And I'm going to change my
41:51
motivation because they're doing all of this has secured or the
41:54
sick, look all those. You either behave or you follow
41:58
the rules or you can get Freedom.
42:01
So I said, okay, I'm going to do something that you guys don't
42:04
expect. I'm gonna get rid of the idea of
42:06
changed in free. I'm going to focus on actually
42:09
making Freedom significant by developing myself into the kind
42:12
of person that can appreciate Freedom.
42:14
Once I placed in the position to fully take advantage of it.
42:18
So you can keep this whole idea and notion that you have about
42:20
what Freedom means. I'm going to focus on developing
42:23
myself. And what happened?
42:25
Interesting Lee enough after that is, when I started focusing
42:28
on building myself, all these opportunities started to present
42:30
themselves to me, because I'm no longer confining myself for what
42:34
the Department of Correction seen.
42:37
Spit for success. And so, I started reaching
42:40
Beyond the Wall. I started writing people.
42:42
I started reaching out to them. I'll be getting my citizenship
42:45
in prison and the nightmare successes here her.
42:48
All on bread is that the very Department That was supposed to
42:52
promote me in that the gents will hold you and I had to fight
42:56
them every single instance to make the kind of connections
42:59
that were necessary for me to be successful.
43:03
And I moved on to the Thursday, which consisted of Sexual moral
43:08
development. And so I was able to put myself
43:11
in a position where before I was saying, I shouldn't do this
43:14
because I don't want to go back to prison and to I'm not going
43:18
to do this because I know that it's wrong, it doesn't matter
43:21
who he did, who hears it, he'll know that I know it.
43:25
And I don't think so little of myself to convince my mind to
43:30
opt out of this shop, into this premise, that Carlos, you're
43:33
such an insignificant person that you can do anything because
43:37
It's only you will know only me as everything.
43:40
And I learned to Value myself so much that I can adopt a kid deal
43:45
with that kind of idea in my mind that is telling me that it
43:49
doesn't matter what I do. Because I'm the only person in
43:52
the end. And this is what I pushed
43:57
against the Department of Correction and everything.
43:59
They told me and it just boggled my mind completely and my
44:03
mentors were instrumental in pushing me beyond the department
44:06
of. Session.
44:07
Because if not, I'm telling you right now, I'll be out here
44:09
thinking, you know, I'm just going to the university because
44:12
I don't want to go back to a life of crime.
44:14
That's bullshit. Wow, that's some good stuff.
44:19
Carlos. I want to ask you because I know
44:22
that you at a very young age, had a son, is that with all this
44:29
it went on in your world. What is that relationship like?
44:36
It all from. It's awesome, Brent.
44:38
I mean his mother made an excellent point of making sure
44:41
that we had a relationship early on.
44:43
Even though I was very very chaotic and it wasn't a good
44:49
idea to you know, bring them around me, she made it a point
44:52
to say you're going to have a relationship with him and he's
44:55
going to come see you. And you know, it was just
44:58
amazing to me to see her go from you have to see your father in
45:02
prison because his your father the same to watch here.
45:05
And my son tell his mother. I need to see my father because
45:09
I need some advice and he helps me that's and then seeing her
45:12
saying I need to see him as well.
45:15
The provides us with a sense of positivity and energy and
45:19
inspiration that we can take back and you know used on a
45:22
hardest part is of days so seeing that transformation alone
45:26
and even when I was having difficulty of then I would sit
45:29
with my son and her and we were able to actually build on the
45:32
things that we had already constructed and seeing the
45:35
impact On my changes have them in their lives.
45:38
You know. Just made me reflect in so many
45:40
ways to think to what I was doing.
45:42
And also look at my mentors in a very different way that they can
45:45
impact my life in a way that I can contribute in such a way to
45:48
the life of others. I mean, it just, it just
45:51
continue to keep me grounded, I love that.
45:54
I love that. Hell, does he know?
45:57
He's 25, 25. I had a, you know, 14 years be
46:02
fine. Wow, I love him.
46:04
I love him and we're great together.
46:06
Well, I could tell by reading the background story that you as
46:10
a as a unit your between the mom, you him, you guys and it's
46:17
that's not easy. I mean so many you know, you
46:21
know, this Carlos hardly anybody makes it through, with their
46:24
family and to be able to keep that connection.
46:27
Action, you're going to that's not going to be regret.
46:30
That's going to be something, you're going to be.
46:32
So happy that you have from here on out as you got close to the
46:38
door to your freedom. What did you start thinking?
46:42
What was going on in your mind? It's interesting because HBO was
46:48
there when they were granted me below.
46:52
And you know they ask me, what do you think about the decision
46:56
and my response to that world? You know, this system is so
47:04
Twisted that I wonder how much of you guys being here influence
47:11
that decision. And so I wasn't even thinking
47:13
about why Graham home. I'm free, you know, for two
47:18
reasons. One You know, I committed a
47:21
heinous crime. I destroyed the life of an
47:24
innocent person to my left is fun to grow up without a father
47:30
and three I lost 24 years to my life, so I had nothing to
47:36
celebrate it. All, no matter how you look at
47:38
it at the tragedy, I just knew that I have some serious making
47:41
up to be, but, you know, that first part time, entering the
47:44
difficult for me because I wasn't thinking about freedom in
47:47
any, which way and I couldn't help but think too much.
47:50
Myself like much of this Freedom has to do with the fact that
47:55
it's being adopted me. Yeah.
47:59
And that was my open and I was you know, what would have
48:02
happened? Had I been here trust that
48:04
system, you can't trust it at all.
48:06
I mean I know what man who was incarcerated at the age of 14.
48:10
I knew that this man did enough to be released back into
48:14
society. He went the for parole board and
48:17
like I told you about these four Sigma He had no drug problem.
48:21
The parole board recommended he take a tier 2 program and come
48:25
back in two years after he spent 25 years in prison already
48:29
because he had a drug problem and that led to his crime and he
48:34
would be released. Now I know that that drug
48:36
problem is a joke and so they just sent them back to take a
48:40
program. That if he did have a drug
48:41
problem wouldn't have helped them and he would have been
48:44
released two years later and probably committed another crime
48:47
because the program wasn't good. But To program was on being to
48:52
be good for whatever he didn't have a drug problem.
48:55
Anyway. Right.
48:56
So it was just so, you know, I didn't like I didn't go in there
49:01
at all thinking that these people knew more about me than I
49:04
knew about them. I just wanted to show them
49:07
through everything that I could that what they provided me with
49:10
was not enough. And that I went beyond the
49:13
expectations of them in order to grow again.
49:19
In two years prior to it, I will every single border.
49:23
Remember, I told you about programs don't work and is
49:25
process is flawed because you're depending on signals that don't
49:30
reflect the reality of what's going on in the program, under
49:33
the Department of Corrections that's in your best interest to
49:35
correct it because you're going to be assessing my carrot form.
49:38
That will I wasn't thinking about the all and I have to do
49:44
and this produces why So Carlos, what is you're looking at?
49:52
You've been out for three months, 24 years.
49:55
It's got to be a huge mind Buzz to you and I know that you set
49:59
yourself up and you became ready.
50:03
What what do you what do you see for yourself going forward?
50:06
You know you had 24 years of your life inside.
50:10
Now you've got the rest of your life on the outside.
50:13
We had to. You see that I don't know what
50:17
the future is going to bring on brand, but I'll tell you what, I
50:20
Define myself as successful and I'll tell you what, he has
50:24
nothing to do with my achievement, has nothing to do
50:27
with my accomplishment. I've never walked into a space.
50:31
After I dedicated myself to change where I convinced myself,
50:35
that only a certain spaces and my required to be fully aware
50:39
and my required to be fully present and my required to be
50:43
the best that I can be. That's my Approach and General.
50:47
And so the way I see my life at that moment of where I end up as
50:51
long as I hold onto the idea, That were there failure or
50:57
challenge or what may have you may present itself that I'm
51:00
capable of coping with the basic challenges of life and that no
51:04
matter what happens. I can deal with it as fast and
51:08
be and always, always carry that sense of success with me because
51:13
it is not particular to any specific area, this particular
51:17
to, who I am as a person. What I love about myself and
51:21
what I'm continually to build within that character to see
51:25
You, that I'm the most and like, just optimistic person that I
51:30
can do. And I just project that onto the
51:32
road in general. Well, I think, Carlos, you've
51:34
proven to yourself that you can adapt to anything that you can,
51:39
you know, whether you're a, 15 year old kid or 24 years later,
51:43
you have adapted to the environment that you were in and
51:47
improved yourself in that environment and came out a
51:50
better version of yourself. I'm curious because I always ask
51:53
people this, I'm curious what your ER, is that after you've
51:57
gone through all that you've gone through and this is quite
52:02
an unbelievable story of yours of how you've lived to this
52:05
point. What do you think your biggest
52:08
takeaway to the listeners out there what you've lived through?
52:13
Wow, I think that everything comes down.
52:18
To not paying an automatic deference to institution to
52:22
adult or to any people in power because it's very easy to
52:27
believe or something is set in stone that they have the right
52:30
recipe and that they're correct. And what I found is that
52:34
everybody is negatively affected by this idea that because other
52:39
people are wrong, it justifies our behavior.
52:42
And we have a power over them, and because we are the ones in
52:46
charge, of instructing them that no over By the no supervision
52:50
should be directed at us at all. And so, my message to everybody
52:54
was especially when looking at children, is that you do not
52:59
take for granted the things that your institution is telling you,
53:03
they're carrying out because most often, they're not in my
53:06
own experience, the opposite is true.
53:09
And so my success ironic is, it came from the day when I decided
53:15
that I was going to challenge the department of corrections as
53:18
long as Policies and practices. And here I am today that is that
53:23
is really something in it, that is really something Carlos.
53:26
I think I am so happy that I got to sit down with you today.
53:30
The one of the great things about my job here as a podcast
53:33
host, is I love these stories. I love having a platform where
53:38
these type of stories can be heard because you nothing was
53:42
easy. You you step through it and I'm
53:45
going to be so interested in and I want to In touch with you
53:49
because I think you've got great things ahead of you.
53:51
You've got things that are the way that you have your mind and
53:56
everything set for you. Now, I just can't imagine
53:59
anything but good coming from what you're going to be doing.
54:02
So, thank you, Carlos. I appreciate it for all those
54:05
out there. Talk to Carlos talking about
54:09
reading books and whatever. I've got a book nightmare
54:12
success. Loyalty betrayal Life Behind
54:15
Bars. Adapting.
54:16
Finally Breaking Free. Go get it.
54:18
It's on Amazon or Barnes and Noble or you can get it at
54:22
Walmart. Hey, I love you guys leaving
54:25
reviews. It really helps the show.
54:28
I don't know what happens with the algorithm but when I get
54:30
more reviews of pumps up the volume of the show.
54:32
So go there, it's easy on Apple, you go, there's a little three
54:36
lines there. It drops down.
54:38
You go to my page, actually, the three lines.
54:41
Actually allow you to follow the show.
54:43
Go to my page, and you, you go down.
54:45
You see the review? He's got 5.0 and this is write a
54:48
review. You go click that, it's real
54:50
easy. Don't even have to say much to
54:51
say you like the show, it'll Pump Up the Volume.
54:55
I want to also say a shout-out to adobo.
54:58
I'm really loving being on their platform.
55:00
It's in over 200 prisons. Hundreds of thousands of tablets
55:04
this goes in there today. Carlos, your story that will
55:08
inspire people that are Behind the Walls that things can
55:11
happen. Good on the outside.
55:15
And brick st.com. Leave me a message.
55:17
I love going back and forth with people on my website as I used
55:20
to say, when I was writing my e-mails back and forth in
55:23
prison. Stay strong, I'll do the same
55:26
Carlos. Thanks so much today.
55:27
I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Brent, not a
55:31
success at it out.