Latest / The ABACC Podcast® / Ep. 5 - Weston Wiebe (CFO, College of the Ozarks) - Hard Work and Debt-Free Degrees
Transcript
- Weston Wiebe: James Forsyth was this Presbyterian minister and he felt called to go overseas to do mission work and as he was doing some of his final checks to, you know, get all you know, get prepared to leave, he failed his health check. Bruce Hoeker: Welcome back to the ABACC Podcast, where we learn from the people serving Christian higher education and remember that we're all working through it together. Our guest today is Weston Weeby, Vice President and CFO of College of the Ozarks, and a member of the ABACC Board of Directors. Weston came to the College of the Ozarks to play basketball and ended up falling in love with the institution's mission. He left for grad school already planning his way back, then applied for two jobs and And didn't get an interview for either one. When he finally opened his hand and let God lead, the door opened, first to the classroom and then to the business office. Now he helps run a college where no student pays tuition. Every student works, and students have been baking fruitcakes for donors since the 1930s. Today he shows us how that model actually pays the bills. Before we get going, here's a message about our sponsors. Weston, good to have you on the show. Thanks for being here. Weston Wiebe: Thanks for having me, Bruce. Bruce Hoeker: Well, I'm I'm super excited about this interview because Weston, you serve on the ABACC Board of Directors. So I've had a chance to get to know you a little bit. And and I I tell everybody Weston is the rising star in the world of Christian higher ed. And I feel like I I think you're what 14 years old now, maybe or 15-ish. and already you've made such a huge impact, not only on the industry, but on the ABACC board, and I'm sure at your school. As well, it's an absolute pleasure to work with you, and I'm super excited to talk today. Weston Wiebe: Well thanks Bruce. Means a lot and I don't know if I can live up to all those kind words, but we'll see. Bruce Hoeker: Well, I'm sure of that. I feel like you already have. Well, first of all, I want I would love to know a little bit of your history. I know you've been at College of the Ozarks a long time. You were a student there. Tell me how you started out and how you ended up where you're at now. Weston Wiebe: Yeah, well if you if you go all the way back to my days as a student, I came into College of the Ozarks really not knowing what to expect. I was an athlete so I played basketball and to be honest I came here to play basketball. And I got here, I learned about the school and and really for me it was the interactions I had with the people here. And that changed my whole perspective. I went from kind of being this athlete first person to all a sudden just falling in love. with the mission here, how our employees invested in students. And really I loved it so much, I was just like, I gotta be part of this. And I don't I don't wanna leave. Bruce Hoeker: That's wonderful. And you you've had a variety of roles, if I recall. Talk me through that. Weston Wiebe: Yeah, so I think a fun part of my story as well when I left here, I kinda had my mind set that I wanted to come back, which is a little bit odd too, 'cause I was counting down the classes I had to take as an undergrad, knowing that if I wanted to come back and work here, I probably had to go to grad school. So I left and I spent five years in grad school and ended up coming back here as a professor. So I started out teaching and and one more just interesting thing, I think this can be encouraging to people who kinda have their mindset on something. and it doesn't work out the way that they wanted it to. I applied for two jobs from the time I graduated as an undergrad and came back as a professor. I applied for two jobs at C of O that I didn't didn't get didn't get didn't even get interviews for. Bruce Hoeker: Hm, really? Wow. Weston Wiebe: And so I think I had to to me I think I just had to let that let that be, you know, I was holding it like this and I just had to open my hand and say, Okay, God, Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Weston Wiebe: wherever where whatever you want for me in this area, you know, you're just gonna have to guide me. And I think when I did that, that's when God opened the door to come back. So it's pretty fun that that happened. I started off as a professor, I I was involved in other things as a work supervisor and spending time with students, did some mentorship things and then was eventually asked to Step over into the business office. Bruce Hoeker: What at what point did you feel like you you had skills that lent themselves to the business office? Weston Wiebe: Yeah, I I think in the back of my mind I've always been a driven person. we were talking even before this, I think I'm a lot like you in that y you we we want to win. I think it's like the athletic piece behind me in playing sports growing up. You don't do something just to get out there and participate, right? you wanna win, you wanna do well, you wanna be your best. And I think for me I always felt like the administration, something in that area could be s could be of interest to me. I thought I saw it as a challenge and j the opportunity presented itself. I wasn't I wasn't a business major, undergrad and I wasn't even t teaching in the business department at the college and so making the shift was actually a bigger shift for me than it might be for most people. But I think it actually goes back to the thing that drew me to the college in the first place and that's the people. So knowing how to deal with people, knowing how to treat people, I think that's really the first step, regardless of what office you're in, regardless of what work you're doing, and even more so with somebody who's dealing with the finances of college or budgets or communicating. you know, I oversee HR and a few other departments that are, you know, can be very technical but are also very people oriented. So those people People skills I think probably opened the door and then just the desire to continue to get better, be the best I could and learn what I needed to to to make up the the other parts. And yeah, I mean it's just it's a fun story. I think God kinda guided me through that path and here I am. Bruce Hoeker: That's wonderful. I I know at some point along the way, this changed from a career to a calling. So tell me a little bit about that. Weston Wiebe: Yeah, I I think for me the calling started much earlier. I think going to grad school again, I told you I didn't like my under I didn't like the classroom part of college, right? And it not that it wasn't I mean, I was okay in the classroom, i it came somewhat easy to me, but I just didn't want to spend my whole time, you know, studying. So I feel like the calling piece was much earlier. Like how how do find people like me who are looking for what life has to give them. And how do I capture them or how can I help walk alongside them when they're eighteen to twenty two years old trying to figure out life? And so I think that was a calling for me all the way back when I was twenty two year old twenty two years old trying to figure out what's next. So so yeah, I think that's what it's been for me the whole time. The call to be in the classroom. I don't think I'll ever have as intense of a kind of walking along students mentorship encouragement time as I did when I was teaching, you know, four classes of thirty students, thirty freshmen, and just basically s getting to know half the half the freshman class in a given year. but I saw I see what I'm doing today just as much as a calling and serving the institution and serving the student as I did when I was teaching. And yeah, I would say it's it's calling from from then till now and just hope Hoping and praying that I continue to am able to answer that call at this institution and whatever that looks like in the future. Bruce Hoeker: Sure. It it's not a once in a a lifetime decision, it's an ongoing decision. Yeah, that's for sure. Weston Wiebe: Yeah. yeah. Yeah, I think so. Bruce Hoeker: So for sure. So thinking way back to your time as a student, what was your perspective of what the business office did and how has that changed now that you're in your position? Weston Wiebe: Yeah, I don't think I had any per s I don't know if I knew what the business office was back then, students pay bills, you gotta make sure your accounts up to date and all those things. But in terms of like all of the the time and effort and energy and the thought and the even just the the people power that go behind what happens in the business office behind the scenes, it's it's pretty amazing. And so we have a great team, from our payroll people to our student accounts staff, account Accounts payable, our controller, there's just so much effort and energy that goes into making that day-to-day special for the student experience. And and yeah, I think that we remind ourselves of that too, because sitting behind your desk or doing payroll or dealing with the balance sheet, that that kind of feels tedious. It might feel like there's not a ton of purpose or people behind that, but again, you go back to the body analogy, we all have purpose and in ultimately providing that student their experience, and we get pretty fired up about that. Yeah. Bruce Hoeker: That's wonderful. I would guess most students don't think of the business office as a place that actually has care and concern for them, other than that they pay their bill on time. the business office can be a cold and scary place sometimes. And Weston Wiebe: Yeah. Bruce Hoeker: maybe it's a good thing you weren't super familiar with the work of the business office. It meant you weren't being called in every other week. Weston Wiebe: That's right, that's right. It's probably a good thing. Bruce Hoeker: So yeah, the the students that I remember most were the students that were getting called into my office all the time. So that's a good thing. That's a good thing. Weston Wiebe: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Bruce Hoeker: So it it must be it must be a cool thing for you to now serve the institution that you you feel shaped you. Weston Wiebe: Yeah, no absolutely. It's it it you kinda have to pinch yourself and you know, like I said, I came here to play basketball and that was kind of my focus. my roommate was my cousin and we both played basketball here, had an amazing experience. Both fell in love with this place and, you know, i it's another fun piece of that story. He came back and started working here about two years ago and it was the first time we worked together, walking the same streets that we walked when we were eighteen to twenty two years old. And yeah, you pin yourself and look around and on the good days and bad days, you might be having a day and just nothing seems like it's go it's going right. And you just remember that 22-year-old student who's, you know, just looking for somebody to help guide them in their next step in life. Nothing crazy, nothing, it's just and and then you say, hey, that's what I get to do today. And it does, it it's special and it means a lot and it's motivating to you know try to pour into students like people poured into me and help me. Along the way. Bruce Hoeker: I this is a complete sideline and maybe something I shouldn't say out loud, but there is the old adage that athletes are not always the best students. And maybe, you know, there there's the chance that an athlete might not show up to class after the season's done. We've we all know that that's the case sometimes. And so here we have a a wonderful example of someone who came to a school to be an athlete who has turned out to be a true servant. And is doing amazing things. So we gotta be careful about those those sorts of mindsets. And Weston Wiebe: Yeah. Yeah. Bruce Hoeker: yeah, I think that's that's a really cool thing. So I t talk to me a little bit about the institution. the College of the Ozarks is a unique institution. Share with me the model. Weston Wiebe: Yeah, super unique, very distinctive. In the nineteen seventies, the Wall Street Journal wrote a article about College of the Ozarks and they called us Hardwork U. You can probably see a banner behind me that says Hardwork U, but that's the little icon that that they put on this article way back then. And and really, that's what we're known for. All students work on campus, no students pay tuition. so even there, if you stop there, it's already super unique, super distinctive. I I brought this to show you. In the nineteen thirties we made our first fruit cake. Okay? And we s you know, it looks like it might Bruce Hoeker: Wow. Is that from the nineteen thirties? Weston Wiebe: be. I hope it doesn't taste like it's from the nineteen thirties. But it's just a funny story. Back then, you know, right after the Great Depression and that that economically hard times in the area, especially, one of the classes baked six fruitcakes and the president smelled when they were walking by or when he was walking by. And he called the teacher and said, Hey, if I can use half of those fruitcakes to send to donors, you know, I'll buy you a new oven. And so that was the story of the fruitcake, and it was the kind of initial student made product. that still even today I brought I brought one of other of our most famous products there, it's the apple butter. But it just goes to tell tell our story of every student is working on campus, we have all these student-made products, and really, you know, our goal is to tell the story through these products and through everything else we do. whether somebody's up in the public relations office, the radio station, making these products, it's all about providing a student an opportunity to work instead of paying for their education. It really is what sets us apart. Bruce Hoeker: Well, I I will be honest with you. I apparently didn't do enough research. I I knew about hard work you and I knew that all students worked. I made the assumption they were working in maintenance and admissions and TAs and secretarial stuff. I had no idea there were actual products coming out of College of the Weston Wiebe: Yeah. Bruce Hoeker: Ozarks. Weston Wiebe: Yeah, st student made products, we've got a hotel and restaurant on campus that about a th a fourth of our students work at the hotel and restaurant. The Branson area gets about 10 million visitors a year. We we s we capture about 400,000 of those visitors up Bruce Hoeker: Wow. Weston Wiebe: at our hotel and restaurant. So, you know, the same thing. Bruce Hoeker: That's incredible. Weston Wiebe: We want to the work education program, we we truly believe it's all about providing the the student kind of this holistic education. That goes beyond the classroom and sets them up well for life after college. But part of that is getting exposure and experience and not just, you know, like I said earlier, a public relations student might eventually end up in the public relations office. But before there, they're gonna serve in a hotel and restaurant or clean toilets around campus or work at the campus dairy or do a variety of these jobs that are kind of, you know, you kind of earn your way and then ultimately just. Just like the real world, you do interviews, you submit resumes, and you can you Bruce Hoeker: Sure. Weston Wiebe: can apply for jobs across campus. And there's over 100 workstations, super unique. and ultimately like I said, the last thing I'll say there about the work education program, we see it so much a part of the educational program that their work grades actually go on their transcript. So if you take your transcript and Bruce Hoeker: Really? Weston Wiebe: send it to an employer or send it to a grad school, whatever, you actually have your workstation and the work grade that you got for that. for that job on your transcript. So it's it's it's wound into everything that we do. Bruce Hoeker: So I I I can't help but wonder, not not every student that comes across your campus is a real go-getter. So I I assume sometimes it's tough like any any employer to to convince everybody to show up and everybody to put their best effort in. But I know I know students come to your institution with that intention, but how does that play out in the real world? Weston Wiebe: Yeah. So we just have to be crystal clear on the front end of what what you're getting into when you come to College of the Ozarks. And unfortunately we're in a position where we're we're able to do that. We don't have to admit every student who applies, which is a a real blessing in today's higher ed environment. but it allows us to be super clear, set expectations. It's not for everybody, but those who take advantage of what we have to offer, you know, we believe, I believe, you know, there's no better place to to to learn, to work, and to grow as you're navigating those college years? Bruce Hoeker: And and the the amazing thing is while they're there, not only are they gaining experience, but it's a top-notch educational experience as well. So it's you've really cornered the market on that. That's amazing. So Weston Wiebe: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Bruce Hoeker: before the show, you described the model to me as student work that offsets the cost of education while building responsibility, leadership, and a strong work ethic. For a business officer running the numbers, what actually makes a no tuition model work? And which pieces depend on philanthropy rather than the work itself? Weston Wiebe: Yeah, it's a great question. So when it comes down to the actual kind of economics behind how we pay for a student's education, you know Typically we we look at the work education program and it does offset certain cost in certain workstations. for example, we don't have a custodial crew that's outsourced, that's all internal. We don't have a landscaping crew that's outsourced and paid for. It's all internal. Now those students might have a couple of work state or work supervisors that are staff members, so there is cost there from an employee standpoint, but we do it at a cheaper level. On the other hand, there's A radio station, in academic workstations, in other places where the work might not be necessary to operate the college, but we do it for the educational purpose for that student. So all that being said, the work program does offset some costs, but the other two and the biggest factors that help us are a strong endowment that's grown over time due to donors' generosity. And then that's not enough to. operate for us to operate each year. But on top of that is those annual gifts that come up come in each year from donors as well. So we really do have a history and kind of the lifeblood of that's that gives us the opportunity to do what we do is really from that historic generosity of our donors and also current generosity that that helps us, you know, balance the books each year and and Bruce Hoeker: Sure. Weston Wiebe: help helps us do what we do. Bruce Hoeker: Well, you have a unique story, so that's got to help the the advancement department with their job. And I I would imagine there's a lot of people out there who would like to be part of this. It's an amazing story. let me get into the weeds just a little bit. Related question. You've led the vocational programs and now you manage the budget. How does a CFO think about fifteen hours a week of student labor as a cost, a revenue off offset, or as something else entirely? Weston Wiebe: Yeah, I think I go back to the i I see it as a integral part of the education of the student. So we don't typically make work education programs, decisions based on just the pure financial metrics of what makes sense. We see it more more holistically as how are we helping students grow and develop. So so yeah, th there are like I said, there are financial you know considerations that come up as we navigate the work education program, but it's really more about educating that student, providing them a holistic education and sending them off into the world ready to take on on what we think, you know, w what a what a job what a a boss in a future job is gonna expect from them, showing up on time, being professional, all those things are built into them and ingrained throughout the process here and yeah, we're just proud of the product product that we send out in those students. Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. I I would certainly think so. You wrote that philanthropy, disciplined financial management, and the work program together let students graduate debt free. If one of those three weakened, the the philanthropy, the financial management, or the work program, if one of those weakened, which would you worry about first? Weston Wiebe: all of the above? Is that my Yeah, it's yeah, Bruce Hoeker: All of the above? Yeah. Equally tied together. Weston Wiebe: I mean 'cause see it it's all it's the work program's so missional. It it's historic in what we do. You know, in nineteen six when we opened our doors for the first time w it it look in in a similar way that it's like this self sustaining city, town, organization, whatever you want to call it, we have that same model today. Students back then did chores. They were out in the fields picking green beans. Guess what? There's some things they were doing back then that we're still doing today. And so to think about the work program not being a part of who we are, it just we wouldn't we wouldn't be who we are. So I would say that has to be there and you also have to have the gas and the vehicle or the car to make it run. And so they work so closely together. mm and yeah, and I think being disciplined is what we do. We want to be good stewards of what we have. We see our time at College The Ozarks being this big on the the grand scheme of things. And so in the time that we have, we want to be good stewards of what we've been given and ultimately set up students better in a hundred years from now than we had it today and and hopefully we've improved to be where we are today based on where we were a hundred years ago. Bruce Hoeker: Well, speaking of a hundred years ago, the college's story starts with what you call a missionary's redirected dream. How does a founding story more than a century old still shape budget decisions today? Weston Wiebe: Yeah. Well, I I mean I I think it kinda goes back to the same thing. James Forsyth was this Presbyterian minister and he felt called to go overseas to do mission work and as he was doing some of his final checks to, you know, get all you know, get prepared to leave, he failed his health check. And he's you know, he's sitting there thinking like, wait a second, this is what my life was going to be for the next however many years. This is kind of my mission, what what I what I thought God wanted me to do, and here I am with with nothing in front of me. well he he made his way down to this part of the state and saw a need for education. And it was all based around the need and the region and how he could help provide that education for the next generation and so w we just we see it the same way, you know. What can we do now specifically for our region? About 80% of our students come from the Ozarks region. And then there's people from all over the country, but we still look and say, how can we continue to provide that education for those who might not be able to afford another education without going into debt? And how can we do that and continue to provide the next generation with that education? So I think that's kind of just our you know battle cry as we march. forward is hey let's be good stewards of what we have and let's be as faithful like the founder of the school of the Ozarks back then was and you know pray that God uses it. Bruce Hoeker: Well, you you've received quite a bit of national attention, of national recognition and rankings, and those kinds of things can pull an institution towards chasing those rankings. So how is the college let its reputation follow the mission instead of the other way around? Weston Wiebe: Yeah. It's a great question. And we are constantly reminded, either by you know, our president or our board. everybody is so focused on staying laser focused on the mission. And you you s you hear countless stories of colleges who and universities, even the big Ivy League universities, started with one mission and they've drifted so far off of that. there's a book called Mission Drift that I think we were required to Read at some point, and for one of our accreditation initiatives, we actually organized the college underneath its five pillars or goals, which all point to the broader mission. And so I think that's one takeaway too for people watching, and it's probably nothing new, but to remind people that all that you can do to signal and show how important your mission is. from the top of your organization all the way to the bottom. I think that really does motivate people and keep them locked into what they're doing, why they're doing it, and gives them a sense of pride of, hey, we want to continue on this mission and stay focused on it and don't want to drift or change or follow the latest trend or look like everybody else. We want to be different. We want to be unique. We want to be who we are. And I think that that's something that that we all, us included, can can you know learn from and focus So Bruce Hoeker: I think that's awesome. I was talking with a good friend at another Christian Higher Ed Association this week, and he referenced the fact that we we can't keep saying we're uniquely Christian because we're not unique. There's lots of Christian organizations, Weston Wiebe: Yeah. Right. Right. Bruce Hoeker: and certainly you you can say you are unique because you do have a very unique model. Knowing that though, and and we this could be replicated elsewhere, but not easily. So Weston Wiebe: Yeah. Bruce Hoeker: what piece of the work? College model, could another business officer at a traditional tuition-based campus borrow tomorrow even without going tuition free? Weston Wiebe: Yeah. I I think a lot of the I I don't I won't be careful to use the word trend, but a lot of the recent movement in higher education is going more towards work f workforce development. And so you see trade-based learning or or credentialing or micro-credentialing, those sorts of things that you know you might end up with a four-year degree, but you also have these other skills that you can take and maybe jump into the workplace in a different way or more hands-on or whatever trade trade type jobs, things like that. So I I think we've done that for a really long time. time and seen the value in it. But the more that we can help students, or the more that you, the listeners, could help students tell their story through the education that they get, I think that's huge. you know, if they came through college the Ozarks, had all this great work experience, but couldn't translate that to their resume or a job interview, it's really a fail. Bruce Hoeker: Yes, absolutely. Yes. Weston Wiebe: but in the same way at any college Teaching students how to tell their story, resume, interview, translate what they've learned into real world application, I think that can I think it'll be a home run for students and and we've seen that benefit as they go out in the real world and and eventually employers know we want the students from College The Ozarks because they have X, Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Weston Wiebe: Y, and Z that make them great workers and that's Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Weston Wiebe: that's huge for students leaving here. Bruce Hoeker: That's that's awesome. So most business officers listening will never run a tuition free college. And some may hear your story and feel maybe they're falling short in some ways. What do you want the CFO who feels stuck with a model they did not choose to hear from you? Weston Wiebe: Yeah. I I I think goes back to pouring into students and just like, you know, I've thought one of my mentors in the higher ed business w world, he always said that when he was in the seat I'm in, h he loved it and it was the most stable job that he felt like he ever had. But there was something about his prior job that felt more like a mission field and more like you were scraping for every penny that's coming in the door that was almost more special to him than his job here. And that that never really has like left it's always stuck in my brain because I'm like, how does that make sense? Like what why why would he say that? But to me it goes back to is if we, me included, if we're focused on the student mission. we're here for the students. We're here to help them navigate eighteen to twenty two two years old and and leave better people than they showed up and and help them with the education all those things, that's what it's all about. So I would say, we're all doing the same work, regardless what the institution looks like, big, small, faith based, seminary, you know, secular whatever it is, I think we all can play that that same role as believers to poor in the students and and be good Christ like examples to them and And again, send them out to the world to to do bigger things than we are. That's right. Bruce Hoeker: Do what you do and just do it really well. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So distinctiveness can feel like a luxury when enrollment and cash are tight. What would you say to the business officer tempted to trade mission for a margin? Weston Wiebe: Yeah. I I love the strategy conversation and discussion. and one of the biggest things that sticks out to me is the most strategic one of the sayings, most strategic thing that we'll ever do is knowing or choosing what to say no to. We think that like in in my seat in in higher ed leadership, we always want to say yes to the next thing and I think actually some of the most strategic decisions we'll ever make is saying no to about ninety five percent of the things that come across our And that's that's not necessarily like people asking for something you say no we can't do that, but more strategically, what's the direction of the college? Saying no to 95% of the doors and and yes to five percent and really being bought into pursuing those with excellence. I think I think that's the piece from a strategic decision that can set any college apart. And it's hard, it's hard, especially when you're looking at your peers and you're seeing, they're doing all this, we need to do all that too. I think each college. really has to look and be strategic about saying no way more than they say yes. And yeah, that's how I'd answer that. Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. I I appreciate that. I I will say this that this I want this to come across like it's meant, but you were one of the first board members to say no on something to me. And I thought, well, that's weird. And and so we didn't do whatever that was, and I don't remember what it was. It was a new a new project. And boy, I can't tell you how grateful I am for that because you were right, and it was not something we should have done. And I'm glad you didn't just say yes because you felt like you should or you had to or whatever it was. You challenged me and you said no. And I thought, well, I guess we're not doing that. And my goodness, as I look back and think it wasn't the right direction, it was like it was a fascinating idea, and I would have had fun doing it. It wasn't it wasn't the best for the for the organization. So you're right. Sometimes sometimes a no is the best. And we we Weston Wiebe: Sometimes it is. I I don't if I if I lucked into that one getting that one right, I don't know. I don't know. Bruce is usually wrong. Bruce Hoeker: You did. Weston Wiebe: So I d I either got lucky or I don't know what, but I appreciate you saying that. Bruce Hoeker: I think you're just a smart guy. I think that's what it is. So, well, as you look out, as especially as a board member of this association, and you're you serve the institutions so well. And I know that you have a big heart for the for the other CFOs and the other business leaders that are out there. What do you feel that CFOs are carrying alone that they shouldn't be carrying alone? Weston Wiebe: That's a great question. I think and this this may not be as unique to CFOs, but I think anybody in a leadership position in higher ed, you know, higher ed is great in that we have athletics, we have, you know, theater, we have art, we've got mu I mean all of the events that you can imagine happen on a college campus, which means every night of the thirty however many thirty-two week, two semester or summer, what every night it seems like there's multiple events that we can like be a part of, be engaged in, even beyond the work that we have in the business office, which w seems like we could work twenty four hours and never ha never get to the end or the finish. so Bruce Hoeker: Yes, for sure. Mm-hmm. Weston Wiebe: I think for me, I always talked to my team and even my peers and and they talk to me as well. And I remember one specific conversation. I took something to one of my peers and I'm like, hey, I've got I've look at this information. I I don't think I can get through I'm not getting through to our colleagues. I'm trying to get them to understand what I'm saying. And he's like, hey, well What's your job? It's like I'm doing my job. This is my I'm trying to bring these these yellow flags up and saying, Hey, th this is trouble on the horizon. How do we how do we work through these things? Nobody's listening and and he encouraged me, he goes, Hey, your job is to present the information and let the team and the president and the board make the decision that's best for the institution. The institution's weight doesn't fall on your shoulders to steer Bruce Hoeker: Yes. Weston Wiebe: it, to guide it, to make it succeed or let it fail. It's not you. And it it just kind of the light bulb went on for me. And I think there was a change in my just approach to day to day work that I needed to take step I I'm not like I don't know if I thought I was yeah, the person holding everything up that I could make all the right moves happen, but I just had to sit back and say, hey, I'm not that big of a deal. I'm really not. I need to do Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Weston Wiebe: my job and do it well and then I need to take my hands off and and let things be. But I think what that led me to is just an exhale, a step back, and believe me, I come in and I'm like, I'm gonna do my job just like playing basketball. I'm gonna get out there, I'm gonna do everything I can to win. I'm gonna do everything the Bruce Hoeker: Sure. Weston Wiebe: best of my ability, leave it all out there. But when the the buzzer goes off, I'm gonna go home and hang out with my family. And I'm gonna Bruce Hoeker: Mm-hmm. Weston Wiebe: have fun. I'm gonna put this, I'm gonna leave it at work, I'm gonna I'm gonna go home with the family and And and I think that's really helped me out over the past few years. So I would say whatever the issue is for a CFO, new CFO or somebody upcoming in the business office, or even any higher ed leader, continue to work on that piece of it where you rightly size your day job and rightly size your home life and rightly size Bruce Hoeker: Mm. Weston Wiebe: all the other pieces of your life and just let all those things play into the bigger picture of your priorities in the way that they should. And I think that'll that's that'll set you up well. Bruce Hoeker: That's amazing. That's excellent, excellent advice. Thank you for that. Well, Weston, thank you for being on the show. It's a absolute pleasure working with you. every time I talk to you I learn something new and I I really appreciate that about you. Before we go, if our listeners remember one thing today, what should that be? Weston Wiebe: I am not just tootin' ABACC's horn here, Bruce. I'm really not. But I would say I would say Bruce Hoeker: no, please do. Weston Wiebe: everybody I meet who reaches out to me and and asks questions about what what would you what would your advice be as I'm coming up in Christian higher education and and working through either the business office or want to get in whatever financial aspect and I always point him to the ABACC conference, ABACC resources and and more than that it's like the the group of ABACC members that yes we learn from the conference, yes we learn, but it it's about the time that we spend with each other and the ability to pick up the phone and call somebody that you meet at ABACC. It's really been I don't know, I can't put a value on that for me. It's been it's been invaluable. So get involved, get to know people. I'm I'm actually it takes me a while to kind of break out of my shell. So it took me like a year or two to kind of get comfortable in the ABACC space. But I'm glad I I pushed through and and and involved more and obviously Bruce, you've been a big part of that. So I'm appreciative of ABACC. It's it's been super helpful for me career-wise and I think it can be helpful for others as well. So yeah, be involved. If you want a fruitcake, let me know. If hopefully it won't be from the nineteen thirties, but but yeah, Bruce Hoeker: All right. Weston Wiebe: we'll thankful to be here and thankful for ABACC. Bruce Hoeker: Great. Thank you so much for the kind words. Thanks for being on the show. Have a good day. Weston Wiebe: Alright, you too, Bruce. Take care. Bruce Hoeker: Weston still runs the business office the way he played basketball. He shows up to win, does everything he can, and leaves it all out there. But when the buzzer goes off, he goes home and hangs out with his family. It took a friend's reminder for him to get there, and it changed how he works every day. So here's my question for you. When does your buzzer go off? Do your job, do it well, and then take your hands off it. Give your work, your home, and everything in between. The place each one is supposed to have. Thank you for listening to the ABACC podcast. If you heard yourself somewhere in this conversation, you're not the only one carrying it, because we're all working through it together. Come find your people at myabacc.org. Before we head out, please stay with us for our sponsors.