Latest / Dear Chelsea / Racism & Righting Wrongs with Shelly Tygielski & Justin Michael Williams

Transcript

Racism & Righting Wrongs with Shelly Tygielski & Justin Michael Williams · Dear Chelsea

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Where have you been this week?
• 0:03
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I have the first week off that I've had for
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Thanksgiving week. Oh that's my first week off. I'm hanging
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: on by an actual threat of dental floss. I am
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: really really. My body is shutting down. The plane rides,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the partying, the more tired I get, the more I
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: drink just to get it up, like I need help.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: So and that's backfiring. My voice is gone. I've been touring.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: It's my favorite tour. I mean, I say it's my
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: favorite whenever I'm doing anything, because it is. Yeah, but
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: it's so much fun. I don't know if I mentioned
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: this last week, but Eddie Vedder came to my show
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: in Seattle. I Goss Jill and we had the best
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: fucking time.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: That's so funny.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: They were awesome. I mean that My tour managers like,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Eddie Vedder's coming to the show tonight. I'm like what?
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: And then we were in Seattle. I had two shows
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: in Seattle, fucking epic in Seattle. Oh did I announce
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: my Canadian dates? Oh? You know what shows I have
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: coming up? I still have tickets for these shows. My
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: second show in Cincinnati it's at five o'clock. I'm trying
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: one of those shows in CINCINNT. I have two shows
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: that day, one at five pm and one at eight pm,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: And the one at eight pm is sold out, but
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: the one at five pm. I want to promote this
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: the Taft Theater, which is in Ohio, obviously, because we're
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: talking about Cincinnati. I also added a second show in Detroit.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: So there's a Thursday and Friday show in Detroit, and
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: there are still tickets for the Thursday show November thirtieth,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and that's coming right up. Yeah. And then I'm coming
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to Louisville, Kentucky. There's tickets for that. That's Sunday, December third.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: And then I'm coming to Montreal and I have two
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: shows in Toronto. We're coming to Ottawa, We're coming to Edmonton, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, Calgary,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: all of my Canadian lovers. I'm coming to Victoria, Kelowna, Vancouver,
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: and then Salt Lake City and Denver and Maricopa, Arizona
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: and Richmond, Virginia. It just goes on and on and on,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: and that's my schedule like through May. But I didn't
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: say all of the dates. I was just telling you
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: the ones that have tickets. So if you want tickets,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: go to Chelseahandler dot com and come to my shows
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: because they're so much fun and you my Yeah, we
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: had we had a little after party because some of
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: my friends, my sister's friends were there. My sister wasn't there,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: but her friends came, and then we had I ran
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: into a girl that I hadn't seen since I waited
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: tables twenty five years ago. It was called Roasty. I
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: saw her Roberta.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: She came.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Her husband's a doctor in Seattle, so my doctor in
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Seattle because I had my cardio myopathy the last time
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: I was in Seattle. They're friends and they came together
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: to my show. So that's my friend from twenty five
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: years ago who was awesome, and I'm going to see
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: her again in Whistler this winter. And then I saw
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: some other blasts from the past and we had this
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: nice little after party in our green room, which was
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: so fun. And then at midnight, I was like, it
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: was Thursday night, our Friday night. I had a show
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: in Seattle on Friday and Saturday, and I left and
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: when I left at midnight, Eddie Vetter and his wife
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: were still partying in my green room.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: That's your friend.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of spirit I like.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: I like it. That sounds great.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: So I mean I have a lot of rock and
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: roll connections this year. People rot rot my tour. Dave
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Grol Yeah, well, Dave Girl, I've known for years. I
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: love Dave Girl. But a lot of rock stars are
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: coming to my shows and I'm fucking down with it,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and now I need to start going to see their shows.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: So I think I'm going to see I think I'm
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: going to get a list, and so I'm going to
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: be up in Canada and Whistler for a few months
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: doing all my Canadian dates after I'm done with my
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: American dates, and then I come back for my American dates.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to go see who the big
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: guys who are coming through Vancouver and go to shows
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: because I love shows. Now. I used to hate concerts, really,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, just because of the sheer, massive
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: people like I'd rather be on the stage than in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the crowd.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: That makes sense though, does it.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some people love concerts.
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's different going from to like a little hole
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: in the wall concert versus like a big concert with
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: all this like spectacle and special effects and everything like
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: those are really fun.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they're all fun.
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: But I told Brad like mid pandemic, when things were
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: really bleak, I was like, it's kind of random, but like,
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: let's go.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: See Pearl Jam when this is all over.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: Like for some reason, that to me was like this
• 3:56
  Speaker 4: that will mean this is all over, so it's still
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: on my list.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Listen to how cute he was who My manager goes, hey, okay,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: you know they came early to be backstage, so they
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: weren't in the crowd, and they were like, he's like,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Eddie Vedder's here. I go bring him up and Jill
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: his wife, who's fucking awesome too, and she they came
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: up and he was like, oh, sorry, we didn't. We
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: didn't come in and have a drink. He goes, oh god,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: we didn't want to bother you before you perform, like
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: we were just coming to the show. We didn't even
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: expect to meet you. I'm like, are already talking about better?
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I know how it works when you go to a
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: show and they're your celebrity and that you get to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: meet the person most most often, but it was just
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: so cute. He was like, so, it's so amazing when
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: you beat legends like that and they're so humble, so.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: They're not He is not like a one thousand Brown
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: M and M's person or whatever that writer was.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: No, he was drinking Corona and she drinks champagne, which
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: is why I guess we had it because my tour
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: managers hooked to their guy. But it was just so nice.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I just love when there's surprises like that in the audience,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: and that keeps happening on this tour. So I love it.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: I love it well, Chelsea.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: Next week is Thanksgiving, and I wonder you know, I
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: know your sister in law kind of has.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: She's I'm dealing with oga over Christmas. I see her
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: for Christmas and we are all going to We're going
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: skiing my whole family. And this is how nice I am.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: I'm moving out of my own fucking house so and
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: renting my place so I can go be with my
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: family in a nice, bigger house because they really won't
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: settle for anything less, and we need a nice house
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: because there's so many of us. So I'm moving out
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: of my own house to move into this rental house
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: with my family for a week and then no Thanksgiving,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend with Connie Britain. I'm going to Connie's
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: so I'm going to be in La. I have a
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: week off, Chelsea.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: Is there anybody in your life that you sort of
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: like don't align with politically and like how do you
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: deal with them at Thanksgiving?
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Etc? Well? No, I mean not in my family. I
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: don't really have people like that where we don't align politically.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, now, with this everything that's going on, that's
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: more of an issue, I would assume, because there's so
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: many people that are so upset for multiple reasons. You know,
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: it's horrifying what's happening on both sides, and the anti
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Muslim behavior and the anti Semitic behavior. So but and
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: then that becomes an argument about Palestine versus and that's
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: not the that's not the fucking argument. So I'm not
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: willing to even have that discussion any there because it's
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: an unwinnable conversation. Everyone's going around in circles. You could
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: go around for seventy five years, you could go around
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: for a thousand years, and they would still be the issue. Yeah,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: So no, I don't have that in my family, and if.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, my nephew can be a little bit conservative,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: which is annoying, but we all really jump down his throat.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: You know what.
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: I have a niece that's like kind of turning that
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: corner too, and I'm like a little concerned. I'm just
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: hoping that when she goes to college, like she's gonna
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: get some different opinions and some different you know, worldviews
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: and come back to like she used to be super
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: super liberal. And I'm like, please come back to the
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: please come back.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I know, I know. It's very hard.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: It's hard when you have that in your family because
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not how we are.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: You can't hate people, you just can't. Like, that's not
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I don't want to live in a world where there's
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: so much hatred. Like I don't want anyone to die
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: or be killed. I don't like that.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Guess what, Like the solution is not continuing to kill,
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: Like it's just not.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I know, we should just send four women in there.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: We should just send you know, fucking Angela Merkel, Send
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Christine A. Monpour, she read very good about the Middle East.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Send Hillary Clinton, and send Michelle Obama let them go in,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: come up with their solution and then tell us what
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: it's going to be.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Send In grena Tuneberry just for you know.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I like Gretituneburg it is it is actually technical.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: For now it's Tunberry, but everyone's a sun Berg.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like, oh over there the corrected.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Like how cute is that? That's very cute? Well, Chelsea,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: we have Shelley back.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: On the Showy Gilskey, my dear friend and her friend
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: and her friend Justin wrote a book and guess what
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: the title is, How We Ended Racism. You know Shelley
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: from this podcast because she runs Pandemic of Love and
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I've talked about her organization many times. And she also
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: had another book come out a few years ago that
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: we talked about called Sit Down to Rise Up. Shelley
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and just welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Shelly, Welcome back to
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: the podcast, Justin. It's nice to finally meet you.
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: So nice to meet you, Chelsea.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I've heard a lot about you Visa VI Shelley, and
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: a lot about your experience writing this book together. And
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the book is called How We Ended Racism, which is
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: in the past tense. We'll get to that and I
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: can't wait to dive into. First of all, the boldness
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: of this title, which I love, and we can talk
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: about how you guys came together first. Yeah, let's start there.
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: Well, when we first first first came together was actually
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: in the rodeo of our first books. And so I
• 8:35
  Speaker 6: was going on a book tour and somebody said, Hey,
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: you need to talk to this woman named Shelley because
• 8:40
  Speaker 6: she knows everybody in the whole world. Basically that helps
• 8:44
  Speaker 6: a lot of people in the world, and she'll help
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: you get to the right folks. And Shelley and I
• 8:48
  Speaker 6: ended up connecting so deeply, like on our first call,
• 8:51
  Speaker 6: which I think happens with Shelley when you know we're
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: with good people. And the rest was really history in
• 8:57
  Speaker 6: terms of how we started working together.
• 8:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:00
  Speaker 7: So I was going to teach in Southside, Chicago. I
• 9:04
  Speaker 7: was invited through the Obama Foundation to teach there, and
• 9:08
  Speaker 7: I was going to walk into a room with a
• 9:11
  Speaker 7: bunch of mothers who lost their children to gun violence,
• 9:16
  Speaker 7: and most of them are women of color. And what
• 9:21
  Speaker 7: I recognized is that it would be really great to
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: have a person of color in the room with me,
• 9:27
  Speaker 7: so that it wouldn't because I only had a very
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: short time to be there, and I realized, usually it
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: takes me a good two to three hours to even
• 9:34
  Speaker 7: like get their trust, you know. And so I invited
• 9:38
  Speaker 7: Justin just on a whim. I said, Hey, what are
• 9:40
  Speaker 7: you doing on this date?
• 9:41
  Speaker 5: Can you can you.
• 9:41
  Speaker 7: Come out to Chicago? And he said, let me check. Sure,
• 9:45
  Speaker 7: absolutely I'm available, and.
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: So and we had never met, never met.
• 9:48
  Speaker 7: In person, we'd never taught together in person, and it
• 9:53
  Speaker 7: was a really rich and wonderful experience.
• 9:55
  Speaker 8: It was amazing.
• 9:56
  Speaker 7: We actually it felt like I had been teaching with
• 9:59
  Speaker 7: him for a really long time. And we actually created
• 10:02
  Speaker 7: bonds there that we still have now with that community,
• 10:05
  Speaker 7: which is incredible.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Wow wow. Because she I went to a gun violence
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: retreat with Shelley once too, and we made a lot
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: of food in the kitchen, organic food. I think we
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: made a beet soup, aborched. I was not what I
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: was expecting at all. I was like, oh, there's a
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: lot of team building here. But yes, I went to
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: and by the way, by the way, I haven't been
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: asked back, so Justin, I just want to let you
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: know you're obviously crushing it.
• 10:28
  Speaker 5: Oh my god, Well thank you.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: And Shelley's been on this podcast before. I've talked about
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: her foundation, which is her Mutual Aid Foundation, which I've
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: mentioned on the show multiple times, and she's helped out
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: so many of our callers. It's called Pandemic of Love.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And so talk to us about justin your background, like
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: where are you from and where did you grow up
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and give us all that stuff.
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: Yeah, totally.
• 10:47
  Speaker 6: I grew up in northern California, actually in a town
• 10:49
  Speaker 6: called Pittsburgh, California.
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: A lot of people don't know there's Pittsburgh in California.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: No, my god, I didn't know. We needed two of them.
• 10:56
  Speaker 5: We don't.
• 10:57
  Speaker 6: But this one, this one is just like twenty minutes
• 11:00
  Speaker 6: east of Berkeley. And I grew up actually in the hood,
• 11:04
  Speaker 6: to be honest with you, I grew up in a
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: home with gunshottles on the outside of my house. And
• 11:07
  Speaker 6: so when speaking in these kind of communities that Shelley's
• 11:10
  Speaker 6: talking about, it's something that I've really lived. And you know,
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: one of the things that I talk about all the time,
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: which kind of led me into the work that I
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: do now, is I grew up kind of adapting to
• 11:19
  Speaker 6: all of my trauma, being what I call a chronic overachiever,
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: just feeling like if I do enough, accomplished, en I
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: succeed enough, if I'm always good, if I'm always perfect,
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: and I'll finally be out of here, I'll finally be enough.
• 11:30
  Speaker 6: And I overachieved my way to getting a full ride
• 11:32
  Speaker 6: scholarship to go to UCLA. I moved to LA, went
• 11:36
  Speaker 6: to LA and it wasn't until I actually got to UCLA,
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: came out of the closet, had extra money for the
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: first time, was living in a safe neighborhood, and exhaled
• 11:46
  Speaker 6: that I realized that I was absolutely depressed. And I
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: was asking this question of like, how is it that
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: I have everything that I've said I've ever wanted. I'm
• 11:55
  Speaker 6: and I'm depressed, and it's you know what sent me
• 11:58
  Speaker 6: to a therapist for the first time. I'm ever This
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: was almost twenty years ago now at this point, and
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: the therapist said to me, you should try meditation. And
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: I literally said to him, meta, what like this before
• 12:09
  Speaker 6: the iPhone?
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 12:10
  Speaker 6: I was like, I didn't know any black people meditating.
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: And he said, it looks like you've been trying to
• 12:16
  Speaker 6: find your happiness outside of yourself, and you've missed the
• 12:19
  Speaker 6: only place you haven't looked within. And the thing is, Chelsea,
• 12:23
  Speaker 6: like I had. It's commonplace to say that now, like
• 12:26
  Speaker 6: find your happiness within, but I had never even heard
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: that phrase. So I like lift up my arms and
• 12:31
  Speaker 6: I'm like within what?
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: Like where what are you talking about?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: You're like here under here, find exactly right?
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: Exactly?
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: I mean, I definitely was trying to find it in
• 12:41
  Speaker 6: places with my pants down. I'll tell you about that,
• 12:43
  Speaker 6: but that's another podcast.
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: Okay, that's another podcast.
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: But anyway, that all leads me to say that I
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: think so many of us we have this experience in
• 12:52
  Speaker 6: our lives where we're trying to change the outside, hoping
• 12:56
  Speaker 6: that it will change something within us, and we find
• 12:59
  Speaker 6: and learn it again and again and again that we
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: could change our relationships, but we're never going to be
• 13:04
  Speaker 6: in a good relationship if we haven't changed who we are.
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: We can change our job, but our job is always
• 13:08
  Speaker 6: going to feel like shit if we don't change who
• 13:10
  Speaker 6: we are inside of those jobs. And so all of
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: my work now that I've really dedicated my life too,
• 13:16
  Speaker 6: is helping people not just change what's on the outside.
• 13:19
  Speaker 6: But change what's within. So I do that in a
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: lot of different ways through music and writing and teaching,
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: meditation and books. But Shelley and I really came together
• 13:26
  Speaker 6: to write this book to help people understand the work
• 13:30
  Speaker 6: that it takes for us to actually change the world
• 13:34
  Speaker 6: in the way that we're all saying that we want
• 13:35
  Speaker 6: it to change, and who we have to become inside
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: to really be able to show.
• 13:39
  Speaker 5: Up for that.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like what you just said. I can relate
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to that a lot, changing you know, not the outside.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I also think trying to control the outside, trying to
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: control the outcome of things right, is never the way forward,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: you know, controlling something without looking within. You know, part
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of looking with in is being able to understand that
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the outcome and the outside are not things. You know,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: you have to be able to go with the flow
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and move like with the you know, with some would
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: say with the universe. I would say that now. I
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: used to I used to be like you. I'd be like,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: oh god, all that language is so free frou. But
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: once you get clicked in and you're moving and everything's
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: in a flow state, you understand the power of that,
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: and then the kind of power that that attracts and
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: the kind of energy that that gives off and brings in.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: You're bringing in so many more people when you embody that.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: When you do look in, you understand yourself. You realize, oh,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I want to give out high vibes. I want to
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: spread good vibes. I don't want to do the negative stuff,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean? My purpose here is joy's
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: sunshine and laughter. Whatever your purpose is. So I love
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: that I can relate this to that a lot.
• 14:46
  Speaker 6: I feel like people often ask me, you know, I'm
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: thirty five, I'm turning thirty six, and people often ask
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: me like, how are you teaching this stuff and doing
• 14:53
  Speaker 6: this at such a young age? And I just feel like, honestly,
• 14:56
  Speaker 6: I was just lucky enough to have hit rock bottom
• 15:00
  Speaker 6: at such a young age and had the resources at
• 15:03
  Speaker 6: UCLA to actually get help at that age that was
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: just younger that I just happened to be starting this
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: at a pathway that I think is before a lot
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: of people do. And so I just feel really lucky
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: that I get to be like a young queer black
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: man who has been able to teach this work in
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: these spaces. And that's why Shelley was talking about like
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: us coming together the diversity that is happening in the
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: world as it relates to wellness and well being. It
• 15:27
  Speaker 6: takes people being able to see people who look like them.
• 15:29
  Speaker 6: And it's just I feel grateful every day that I
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: get to be representative of a community that sometimes is
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: represented in this work in this world.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about this book and what's inside
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: this book. Obviously it's a very bold title choice, and
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: explain to us how you got there and then what
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: people are going to be able to learn from reading this.
• 15:48
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 15:48
  Speaker 7: So Justin and I are both Garrison Fellows, the Garrison Institute, which.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Is in I'm also a fellow, Shelley. So just back
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: to fuck up? Okay. So okay, so yeah, welcome.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: To the podcast.
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: Back up, Shelley.
• 16:08
  Speaker 8: Back it up? Where do you want me to back
• 16:10
  Speaker 8: it up?
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Shelley.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: That's very inappropriate. That's really not the kind of book
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: we're talking about.
• 16:15
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I can't believe you would reduce our podcast to this.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: That's Justin's other book.
• 16:21
  Speaker 8: Back it Up? Okay.
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: So Justin and I are Garrison Institute fellows, and the
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: Garrison Institute Fellowship actually at the helm of the program
• 16:30
  Speaker 7: is doctor Dan Siegel, who you know really well and
• 16:32
  Speaker 7: who has been on the podcast. And the challenge that
• 16:35
  Speaker 7: the Garrison Institute Fellows had in this two year program
• 16:38
  Speaker 7: that we were in is to think about big questions,
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: like really big questions that almost seem like completely insurmountable
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: and unsolvable, et cetera. And Justin and I came together.
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: This was around the George Floyd murders the summer of
• 16:53
  Speaker 7: twenty twenty. We started thinking about what needs to change
• 16:56
  Speaker 7: in this world for this kind of bullshit to stop happening,
• 17:00
  Speaker 7: you know, what actually needs to change? What can change?
• 17:04
  Speaker 7: Why do we feel so helpless, why do we feel
• 17:06
  Speaker 7: so hopeless, and why do we feel so disempowered, like
• 17:09
  Speaker 7: we don't feel like we can actually change anything. And
• 17:11
  Speaker 7: what we started to do is we started to put
• 17:14
  Speaker 7: together a program. First and foremost, we were like, let's
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: bring together people to just have a conversation to really
• 17:19
  Speaker 7: start exploring the answer to that question what can we do?
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: And then what we started to find out as we
• 17:26
  Speaker 7: start as we dove sort of deeper into just the
• 17:29
  Speaker 7: rhetoric right around anti racism, and we read cast and
• 17:34
  Speaker 7: we read all of the books, all the things that
• 17:36
  Speaker 7: were coming out around that time. We recognize that in
• 17:40
  Speaker 7: none of those books, in none of the DII programs,
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: and none of the racial bias training programs, does anybody
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: ever say that racism can end. All we ever talk
• 17:53
  Speaker 7: about is that the work needs to continue.
• 17:56
  Speaker 8: Generation after generation after generation. So and I looked at
• 18:00
  Speaker 8: each other.
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: We asked each other, you know, what would it look
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: like if racism actually could end? What would it look
• 18:07
  Speaker 7: like if we stood in the future and looked backwards
• 18:12
  Speaker 7: and thought to ourselves, what do we need to do?
• 18:15
  Speaker 7: Who did we need to become back then today in
• 18:18
  Speaker 7: the present moment for racism to actually end.
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: And I think one thing, Chelsea that I'll add to
• 18:24
  Speaker 6: this is we thought it was crazy. So remember the
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: Fellowship asked us to ask these big questions, And we
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: looked at each other and.
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: Said, could racism end?
• 18:31
  Speaker 6: Like everything is saying this is going to be a
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: lifelong fight for generations and generations forever and ever and
• 18:36
  Speaker 6: ever and always and always and always. And we were like,
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: but for why we do so many things in the world,
• 18:42
  Speaker 6: Like we accomplish so many things, And right now everyone's
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: talking about getting to another planet, and we're like, if
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: we land on Mars. Without ending racism, we are fucked, Like,
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: we're totally screwed, you know, if we figure that out first.
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: And so we got what was so cool is we
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: were about it too. We went in with a genuine question.
• 19:03
  Speaker 6: We pulled hundreds of people together, We got anthropologists, sociologists,
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: neuroscientists to ask the question, is it actually possible for
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: this to end? And what we found actually against what
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: we thought was going to happen. The answer was yes,
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: it actually can, and for the first time in history
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: it can because of everything that's come before us, all
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: that we know now.
• 19:27
  Speaker 5: But it can't end.
• 19:28
  Speaker 6: That possibility doesn't exist without these eight specific pillars. And
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: so our book kind of lays out the eight pillars
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: that would have to exist for the idea of ending
• 19:39
  Speaker 6: racism to even be possible. And so it's not really
• 19:41
  Speaker 6: a book that like ten Steps to end racism. It's
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: not like that. It's like, stand in the future, racism
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: is over. What are the eight things that would have
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: had to happen now for this to actually go down?
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: And so that's what we write about, right.
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: What conditions needed to arise in humanity in order for us.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: To get there? And can you talk about a couple
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: of the pillar before we go to callers.
• 20:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah, sure, so there's eight of them. I'll start with
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: the one that we normally don't start with because it's
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: the one that people often like to talk about, which
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: is we learn to have big conversations and how to
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: have conversations across divides, and one of the things that
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: we believe the world is ready to graduate from and
• 20:23
  Speaker 6: needs to evolve from, basically immediately, and it is time.
• 20:28
  Speaker 6: I think we all know this is from calling people
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: out to doing what we have called and coined in
• 20:35
  Speaker 6: our book Calling Forward. And the reason we talk about
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: this is what we know from all the science is
• 20:42
  Speaker 6: calling out which leads to cancel culture, which is shame
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: and blame and guilt, and it never ever leads to
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: the situation that we're actually trying to stop really changing
• 20:54
  Speaker 6: in the big picture. It leads to canceling people instead
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: of canceling a problem, which is a situation. And so
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: what we know from all the research that we looked
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: at is if you approach a situation with Shane blaming Gil,
• 21:09
  Speaker 6: I don't care how bad it was, it is a
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: thing that somebody did. Getting them to learn or grow
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: is basically virtually impossible, and so we want to get
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: people to learn and grow. What we have to understand
• 21:22
  Speaker 6: is our book is based upon why I'm starting here.
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: You can't be antie everything to get things to move forward.
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: Being anti does it tell us what we're walking towards.
• 21:35
  Speaker 6: It just tells us what we're fighting against. And if
• 21:38
  Speaker 6: you're going to be fighting against something, you're ultimately saying
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: that thing has to always exist so that I can
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: keep fighting it. And so we're looking at no, not
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: just what are we fighting against? What are we anti?
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: What are we walking toward? What are we going forward too?
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: And that's really what we're trying to do with the
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: work in this book is teach people how to have
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: the conversations, how to move forward to what we all
• 22:04
  Speaker 6: actually want and.
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: What I believe. Chelsea.
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: Let's say this is a black gay man who has been
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: all over this country. I'm half white. I have white
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: family who lives in Alabama who are Trump voters, and
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: they are the most I don't know if they'll vote
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: for him again, but they did, and they are the
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: most lovely, amazing people who I love with my whole heart.
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: And what I've learned all around this country, is that
• 22:29
  Speaker 6: what we're seeing in the news in the media is
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: not what I would say most the majority of people
• 22:34
  Speaker 6: are this extreme. I think many of us actually want
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: the same things. We want to walk in a similar direction.
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: But we're being torn apart by all this council culture
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: and this anti everything in this call out everything, and
• 22:46
  Speaker 6: we're trying to gather that group of people together so
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: we can walk forward together.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: You know, it's so true, like the canceling and shunning people,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Like if that worked, police officers wouldn't be up to
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the same business that they've been up to for the
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: life last fifty years. You know, like people get arrested,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: they lose their jobs for assaulting and murdering innocent black
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: men who are just scared to be pulled over, who
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: run from them out of fear. And you would think
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: with social media it's all over the place. I'm always like,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: how do these men still think they're going to get
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: away with it? And it's like it clearly doesn't make
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: an impact that some of these men have lost their
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: jobs and some of them are spending time in jail.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have the impact. And so the canceling of
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: people and the calling out you're right. Isn't a way
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: to learn, It's a way to shame someone. I mean,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: it's a nice step, in my opinion, to as a
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: warning to people, but you know, it's not the most
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: effective way, and clearly obviously it's not. Well that's fascinating.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I love that, and I mean I love this book
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: because I like anything that talks about ending racism. Obviously,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: my hope for another planet is that when we do
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: make contact with another planet, all of those people will
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: be black. So that's my personal fantasy that we will
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: recontact with whomever they are living somewhere else, because there
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: are people out there, and I yeah, and then America's
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: gonna be like whoopsie doodle.
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah right.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I doubt I'll be around for that moment. But anyway, Okay,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: so are you guys ready you want to take some
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: calls about on this topic. We're gonna have people call
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: some questions and that's the name of the game on
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: this podcast. So okay, Catherine, what do we what do
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: we got going on today?
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: Well, first, I'm going to make us take a little
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: break and we will be.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Right back to take callers.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, We're going to take a little break okay, and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: we're back.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: We're back.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have a little frog in my throat. Excuse me.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I had a coffee this morning, and I'm fucking bouncing
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: off the walls. I don't normally drink coffee.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: That's not your usual thing.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: Well, we're actually going to start with a caller. Usually
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: we start with an easy one. But I know you
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: guys can handle it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: So.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: Abigail is in Colorado.
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: She is thirty five, and she says, my husband and
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: I have been together for six years. We have different
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: political views, and his friends share his views. My husband
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: and I have never had any major issues about our
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: con views, other than being annoyed from time to time,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: most of the big issues we agree on. His close
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: friend comes over a couple times a month and spends
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: several hours drinking. Early in our relationship, I actually enjoyed
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: it and would even suggest it. The problem is his
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: friend loves to bring up topics that make me uncomfortable,
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: one being politics, but there are many, and they're offensive.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: It's only after he gets drunk, and it always feels
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: like an attack because he knows where I stand on
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: most issues. I feel like he just wants a reaction
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: if I react. Then I get very defensive and never
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: say what I really want to because I'm afraid of
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: being so reactive. If I say nothing, I spin out
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: for weeks thinking about what I should have said. It's maddening.
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: My husband always gets pretty quiet when this behavior happens.
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: He knows I don't need anyone to defend me. I'm
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: a big girl, but I can't take it anymore. I
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: don't want my husband to not hang out with his friends,
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: and I appreciate that they always hang out here instead
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: of going to bars. I've been meditating, listening to podcasts,
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: and reading lots of books like Letting Go and The
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: Untethered Soul, trying to let go of my negative feelings
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: towards him.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: What should I do?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Abigail Hi, Abigail Hi, Hi. This is Shelley and Justin.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: There are guests today. They wrote a book that relates
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: to what you're talking about. I don't know how people
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: do it. I'm like you, listen, I'm like you, But
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: people like that, especially someone who's trying to get a
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: rise out of you, you better figure out the toolkit too.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: As my friend would say, water Ski above it all.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: You cannot engage with somebody who's trying to wind you up.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, if that's not the dynamic between men and women,
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: that also needs to end. That is the most annoying
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: thing for a man to sit there and needle you
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: about something he knows you're passionate about. So I would
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: just I would really try and use all of your
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: toolkit so that you can a either laugh at anything
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: he says and just belittle that, not in a belittling
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: way of him, but just belittling his behavior, like I'm
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: not engaging with you. That's just too ridiculous. You're too ridiculous,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Like I'll talk to you about regular things, but just
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: trying to get me upset, and I'm like, it's just
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: too stupid. And also, do you need to be subjecting
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: yourself to him because what reason? Because you like your
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: husband to be home drinking rather than out drinking.
• 27:10
  Speaker 9: No, I mean that's nice, don't get me wrong, just
• 27:14
  Speaker 9: to not think about like drinking and driving and stuff
• 27:16
  Speaker 9: like that. But other than that, it's just his friend
• 27:20
  Speaker 9: that he's been best friends with for like I don't
• 27:22
  Speaker 9: even know, like twenty years. So I definitely don't want
• 27:26
  Speaker 9: to try to like create any sort of wedge that's
• 27:29
  Speaker 9: not it. I just wish he would stop doing this because,
• 27:34
  Speaker 9: like I said, like he doesn't even remember the conversations,
• 27:37
  Speaker 9: which is just crazy.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Well, which is even more ridiculous for you to be
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: upset about, you know what I mean, He's drunk and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: just blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You don't
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: even need to engage with that. And at a certain point,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: when someone's that drunk, like you're totally able to have
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: them leave or remove yourself from the situation, like there's
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: no reason to subject yourself to that.
• 27:59
  Speaker 9: Yeah, because I know that this is like a me problem,
• 28:02
  Speaker 9: like I need to figure out my reaction. But also
• 28:05
  Speaker 9: down the road, my son is a toddler now, but
• 28:08
  Speaker 9: when he's older, I just feel like I'm going to
• 28:11
  Speaker 9: have this explosive reaction if he says something you know,
• 28:17
  Speaker 9: racial or homophobic or anything like that in front of
• 28:21
  Speaker 9: my son, I think I'm going to lose it, and
• 28:23
  Speaker 9: I need to, Like, I just don't want him to
• 28:26
  Speaker 9: ever be exposed to hear someone that he's supposed to
• 28:30
  Speaker 9: love and respect say terrible things, do you know what
• 28:33
  Speaker 9: I mean?
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Well, that's your job as a parent to not have
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: those people around your children voluntarily A I mean hot
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: parenting tips for me be anytime you lose your shit,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: you've lost the argument. So anytime you are up in
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: arms and screaming and yelling, it's nobody takes that seriously.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So it is a practice to control yourself. I used
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: to do that all the time. It's not effective, it
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't work. When you make a point quietly and directly,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: it has much more of an impact than you jumping
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: around screaming and yelling and being defensive. Shelley and justin
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: over to you thoughts, feelings.
• 29:08
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, Abigail, I feel so understanding of what you're
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: dealing with. It reminds me of somebody that we wrote
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: about in our book named Joe, who dealt with this
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: with his coworkers. He was like going out to lunch
• 29:22
  Speaker 6: with his coworkers again and again, and there was a
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: few coworkers who just kept saying racist jokes, who kept
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: saying all these remarks, and he didn't know what to say.
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: And I want to just have There's a section.
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: In our book where we walk people step by step
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: through how to set boundaries and in a way that
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: actually works and is meaningful. And I want to honestly,
• 29:42
  Speaker 6: I just want to promise you that we're going to
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: give you a gift of our book ourselves. So we're
• 29:46
  Speaker 6: going to send it to you so that you have
• 29:47
  Speaker 6: a copy of it to walk through this step by step.
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: But I want to give you a piece of this
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: here that I think is really important to know, and
• 29:55
  Speaker 6: then I'll pass it to Shelley. A big part of
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: the reason why we don't set boundaries we lie to
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: ourselves and convince ourselves that we're not setting the boundary
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: because oh, I don't want to create a wedge between
• 30:09
  Speaker 6: my husband and his friend, or I don't want I
• 30:13
  Speaker 6: want to make sure that I don't ruffle any feathers,
• 30:15
  Speaker 6: or I want to make sure that I'm being nice,
• 30:17
  Speaker 6: and we kind of act like the reason we're not
• 30:19
  Speaker 6: setting boundaries is because we're so nice, But what we've
• 30:23
  Speaker 6: actually learned from all the studies around this is it's
• 30:26
  Speaker 6: actually the opposite. We're not setting boundaries because we don't
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: want to have to sit with having caused someone else disappointment.
• 30:38
  Speaker 6: So we will abandon our truth to make sure that
• 30:41
  Speaker 6: we don't have to sit with someone else being disappointed
• 30:45
  Speaker 6: with us, and so we'll let ourselves, continue to get
• 30:47
  Speaker 6: run over, continue to be upset, continue to be angry,
• 30:51
  Speaker 6: continue to be in some cases this is not the
• 30:54
  Speaker 6: situation that you're in, but like abused or bothered, also
• 30:58
  Speaker 6: that we don't have to have somebody go I'm a
• 31:00
  Speaker 6: little disappointed in you. And so if you could just
• 31:03
  Speaker 6: own that a part of the reason you're not saying
• 31:06
  Speaker 6: anything is not because you don't really feel strongly about this.
• 31:09
  Speaker 6: It is not because you maybe don't have the tools
• 31:11
  Speaker 6: to speak about it when you're all sober and bring
• 31:13
  Speaker 6: it up in a meaningful way. But it's because you're
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: afraid of you having to sit with the reaction of
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: if he gets upset, or if your husband gets upset
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: about it. And so this might be a starting point
• 31:26
  Speaker 6: for the conversation is share the dilemma instead of going
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: in with this anger and solution. Share the dilemma and
• 31:33
  Speaker 6: start with your husband and say, hey, I want to
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: talk to you about something. Here's the dilemma. You're not
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: going in with this hard boundary answer. I need him
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: to stop. It's Hey, I really love your best friend
• 31:45
  Speaker 6: and I want us to all be able to stay
• 31:46
  Speaker 6: really close, and I care about him and I love
• 31:49
  Speaker 6: when he's over. And at the same time, it's really
• 31:53
  Speaker 6: important to me that we're creating an environment where we're
• 31:56
  Speaker 6: not talking about these things because it really bothers me.
• 31:59
  Speaker 6: What do you think we should do? How can we
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: handle this together? That's a whole different way of setting boundaries.
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: And now you're involving your husband and you're a team
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: actually wondering how to do this, and you have the
• 32:10
  Speaker 6: same conversation with him. Hey, he doesn't even realize this
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: is even happening, Shelley, I'll let you jump in. I
• 32:14
  Speaker 6: do I want to monopolize this. I know you have
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: something to say.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: That's very good advice, very good advice. I love it.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: That's super helpful.
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: No, I mean, yeah, there's not a lot to add here.
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: You know, what I will say is that I personally
• 32:26
  Speaker 7: had this experience with my husband, Jason's friend, best friend,
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: and he would constantly say really sexist and aggressive things.
• 32:37
  Speaker 7: He would come over on Sundays, they would watch football games,
• 32:40
  Speaker 7: and it would just, you know, it would be fine
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: when he got there. And my son was always at
• 32:44
  Speaker 7: home as well and looked up to his quote unquote uncle,
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: and it became really challenging for me to be in
• 32:52
  Speaker 7: the same room as my husband and his friend when
• 32:56
  Speaker 7: he came over and they started drinking. So I made
• 32:59
  Speaker 7: a conscious decision definitely did what Justin said, you know,
• 33:02
  Speaker 7: raise the dilemma.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: And then she also started drinking. That's how she happened.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: You know what, can't beat them, join them, but.
• 33:09
  Speaker 8: Not with them, but not with them.
• 33:11
  Speaker 7: Yeah, basically, you know, you have the choice. I feel
• 33:15
  Speaker 7: like you're kind of giving your power away in a sense,
• 33:17
  Speaker 7: and I recognize that, Like, the one thing that I
• 33:20
  Speaker 7: can control is where I am physically when this person
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: comes over, or whether or not, you know, if you're
• 33:29
  Speaker 7: concerned about you know, you said, you know, I don't
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: necessarily want them to it's nice that he's at home,
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: but I'm just thinking to myself, like, maybe it doesn't
• 33:37
  Speaker 7: always have to be at your home. You know, we
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: live in an uber world, Like, yes, they're drinking and driving,
• 33:42
  Speaker 7: so then you drive them to the bar and yeah,
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: you know, and you can have your husband uber back,
• 33:48
  Speaker 7: or you can send him the uber, you can go
• 33:49
  Speaker 7: pick him up, or there's so many different options as well.
• 33:52
  Speaker 7: But the idea is like, don't give your power away,
• 33:55
  Speaker 7: don't put yourself in a situation I remove myself from
• 33:58
  Speaker 7: that situation, and eventually, I will tell you that became
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: a little bit wiser about it and was like, why
• 34:05
  Speaker 7: doesn't Chillie ever want to hang out with us anymore?
• 34:07
  Speaker 7: And I finally, when he was sober and he was
• 34:10
  Speaker 7: willing to come to the table and have this conversation,
• 34:12
  Speaker 7: I had this conversation with him, and I will say
• 34:14
  Speaker 7: that he actually apologized for his behavior and was a
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: little bit more conscious about it.
• 34:19
  Speaker 8: At that point. I still can't stand him, but still.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's also it's just a nice test for you,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, to see how you can
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: handle a situation that is difficult, that is causing you
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: distress and handle this in a different way, Like you know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: you probably haven't had to deal with this specific, you know,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: situation before, but handle it. And you're going to feel
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: so good after you do handle it. You know, obviously
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: when when he's not drinking. You can't talk to someone
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: when they're drunk or in a blackout for that matter.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: But you know, there are many different avenues to like
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: address this at first with your husband and then you know,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: in a very mature and affectionate ray even exactly.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think Also, you know, of course you
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: want to keep your child away from this, but whether
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: it's from this guy or in seventh grade or in college,
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: he will be exposed to these.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: Types of opinions.
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: Now, this is something I'm dealing with, like with my
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: nieces and nephews, and just to be there to have
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: those conversations from the other side, like well, this is
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: what I believe and this is how I feel about it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: I think is so important that they just hear that
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: other side all along.
• 35:21
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I totally agree, honestly, Abigail, That's what I was
• 35:24
  Speaker 6: going to say, is the most important thing for your son.
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: You're not going to be able to protect him from
• 35:28
  Speaker 6: these conversations. I mean, maybe you can protect him from
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: a bit in your home. I'm not saying I'm say anything,
• 35:32
  Speaker 6: but what you can do is model for him how
• 35:35
  Speaker 6: he can show up inside of these conversations. And that's
• 35:37
  Speaker 6: where you get to really make a big difference.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Also, you have every right to tell him. I mean,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that's a perfect in It's like, I don't I don't
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: want my son hearing any of this stuff. Those are
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: your opinions, You're entitled to have them, but not when
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: you're at my house as my guests, Like, I don't
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: need my child hearing that, and it's under his own roof.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: This is a safe place for him, and I'm his
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: mother and I have every right to protect him from that.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: You know, he's going to hear that outside in the
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: outside world, but not under my house. Not in my house, Like,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: come on, it's not your belief system. That's not part
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: of what you have to put up with.
• 36:08
  Speaker 9: So yeah, no, that's all super helpful. I think I
• 36:11
  Speaker 9: just needed to hear someone tell me, like, saying nothing
• 36:15
  Speaker 9: is so much more powerful than trying to engage, because
• 36:18
  Speaker 9: anytime I've tried to educate or just try to listen
• 36:23
  Speaker 9: or try it just it never it always makes me
• 36:27
  Speaker 9: spiral later, and it always makes him feel like he
• 36:30
  Speaker 9: won or whatever, like and I just I need to
• 36:33
  Speaker 9: not engage.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, Well, thank you so much, Abigail, and good luck.
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: It's a tricky situation.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Take care, Abigail, Thank you so much.
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: Thank you, care dear, thank you.
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: Our next email comes from Margo. Margo says, Dear Chelsea.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: After I graduated college in twenty twenty one, I went
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: abroad to solo travel for a while, but I ended
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: up never coming back. I've lived in three different countries
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: since then, and have worked six different hospitality and retail jobs.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: I'm currently living in Australia and I'm strongly considering moving
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: to Vietnam to teach English soon, but my dad thinks
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: it's time for me to come home and start my career.
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: Since I'm almost twenty four, I understand where he's coming from,
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: but I'm worried that if I don't go now, I
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: never will. I really value the sense of autonomy and
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: fierce independence I've developed from not being committed to one home, base, job,
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: or partner. However, I do know that in the near
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: future I want to have children, a partner, and a
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: successful career. I feel at once too old to continue
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: my current unconventional lifestyle and too young to enter a
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: life back home where I could turn complacent doing the mundane.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: Do you think I should get serious or stay adventurous
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: or is there a way I can keep the sense
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: of wonder and freedom even without traveling and while I'm
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: trying to join the corporate ladder, get married and have kids.
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: I don't know, girl, Margo, she's twenty four.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: You say almost twenty four?
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Shelley would you like to begin.
• 38:02
  Speaker 7: Almost twenty she is, Yeah, Wow, I'm.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Gonna save my feedback for the very end.
• 38:07
  Speaker 5: Okay, Wow, I'm.
• 38:09
  Speaker 8: Just like, wow, I'm floored.
• 38:12
  Speaker 7: I mean, it's interesting because I spent the first you know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: twenty years of my life climbing the corporate ladder, doing
• 38:20
  Speaker 7: everything that people told me I should be doing, you know,
• 38:23
  Speaker 7: went to school, got a master's degree, did everything the
• 38:26
  Speaker 7: right way, got the corner office, you know, made a
• 38:29
  Speaker 7: great salary, and like Jessa was saying earlier about his life,
• 38:33
  Speaker 7: like it was the most miserable I'd ever been in
• 38:35
  Speaker 7: my life.
• 38:36
  Speaker 8: And it finally at the age of like.
• 38:38
  Speaker 7: Forty, I was like, burn this all to the ground,
• 38:42
  Speaker 7: you know, through the match behind me, and was like,
• 38:44
  Speaker 7: let's go, Let's go live this wanderlust adventurous life that
• 38:48
  Speaker 7: I didn't really have an opportunity to do when I
• 38:52
  Speaker 7: was younger. And so I would say that, especially because
• 38:56
  Speaker 7: she's only it seems like twenty four. Wow, you know,
• 39:00
  Speaker 7: you're a quarter of a century old almost. It's hard
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: to like imagine what life will be like at age fifty.
• 39:06
  Speaker 7: But if you know, you're thinking about what your parents
• 39:09
  Speaker 7: or your father is telling you, you should be doing,
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: and I would say don't let people should or would you?
• 39:17
  Speaker 7: I would say, absolutely continue living this adventurous life because
• 39:21
  Speaker 7: you will not only when you travel far you find yourself,
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: that's first of all, and second of all, you will
• 39:26
  Speaker 7: find your tribe. You will find the people, and maybe
• 39:29
  Speaker 7: even find your husband. Maybe he's not back quote unquote home,
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: maybe he's in Australia, maybe he's in Vietnam, maybe he's
• 39:35
  Speaker 7: or your partner. I should say, because I don't want
• 39:37
  Speaker 7: to assume what your sexuality is, but I think you
• 39:41
  Speaker 7: should absolutely continue to live what feeds your soul, because
• 39:45
  Speaker 7: when you come back home, you will there's a very
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: big possibility that you will live a life filled with
• 39:52
  Speaker 7: resentment and remorse and what ifs. And it's it's worse
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: to live a life of what ifs, a life laden
• 39:59
  Speaker 7: with regret, than it is to live a life that
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: feeds your soul every single day.
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean ditto all along that pathway. I think
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: what I'll say is that Shelley and I you know,
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: have worked with hundreds of thousands of people all around
• 40:17
  Speaker 6: the world at this point. And what I will tell you,
• 40:19
  Speaker 6: my dear Margo, is we work with people at all
• 40:21
  Speaker 6: ages of their life who would just die to have
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: the chance to travel in the way and experience what
• 40:29
  Speaker 6: you're experiencing right now.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: Would just really want that.
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: And you are on a pathway that I think your
• 40:37
  Speaker 6: family and your parents it's not that they want there's
• 40:40
  Speaker 6: something that they're trying to create, something bad for you.
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: It's just there's a different life for them. There's something
• 40:44
  Speaker 6: different that they know and that they may have defined
• 40:47
  Speaker 6: as success. And what you have to do is really
• 40:50
  Speaker 6: ask yourself, what does success look like for me? What
• 40:54
  Speaker 6: does happiness look like for me? And follow that path
• 40:58
  Speaker 6: and if the pathway that you're on is it, do it,
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: Because girl, you are twenty four. I remember when I
• 41:04
  Speaker 6: was twenty four thinking that I was old and had
• 41:06
  Speaker 6: to have all my shit together. Oh my god, if
• 41:09
  Speaker 6: I only knew how much life there, you know, is
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: hopefully still left to live and so enjoy, my dear.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: Find the pathway and you'll find home.
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: But you know, having a house doesn't mean you have
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: a home, So don't make it like it's all about
• 41:23
  Speaker 6: moving and buying a house to you know, save your
• 41:25
  Speaker 6: life here.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and don't listen to your father. Okay, like, don't
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: listen to some man tell you what is best for you,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: even if it is your father, because your life sounds incredible.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what what I want to be?
• 41:38
  Speaker 5: You?
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: And you're twenty four years old. I didn't have a
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: career until I was thirty two years old. I didn't
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: make a living until I was thirty two doing what
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I wanted to be doing. So I think you should
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: stay there, go to Vietnam, go then go go to Laos,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: go wherever the fuck you feel like going. Do whatever
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: you want, and don't put a time limit on anything.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: You know, time is like, this is the most important
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: thing you could possibly be doing with your life as
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: seeing the world. And you're right. If you go home
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: and you find some guy and you shack up and
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: start a family, you're never going to get these opportunities again.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: So you know, I know your father probably wants the
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: best for what's best for you, but he's also referencing
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: this constructed society that we're told what we have to
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: do and when we have to do it, And I
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: say fuck you to all of that. You know you
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: have to follow what you want to do and be
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: passionate about who you are and not listen to anybody
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: who's trying to explain to you what's best for you,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: because only you know that, and that's what I have
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: to say about that. Hal Amen, Amen, there you go, Margo,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: There you go, Margo. Okay, don't fuck this up.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Send as a post guard from Vietnam.
• 42:44
  Speaker 8: Yeah, we better not be seeing you in these parts
• 42:46
  Speaker 8: of the words.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Our next call is from Laura. She is in Carasau
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: and is a nutritionist.
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: Dear Chelsea. After suffering four small strokes in a row
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: last December, my life has been really a roller coaster
• 43:01
  Speaker 4: ride through depression and back. Almost nine months later, I
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: can finally say I feel a bit like myself again.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: Your special and podcast has been the first thing to
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: get me laughing again in months, so thanks for that.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: Now here's my question. I have severe ADHD and have
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: tried and really want to meditate, but it's been absolute hell.
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: And I truly mean this with all the respect.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: In the world.
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: But I figured, if you can meditate and actually enjoy it,
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: isn't it possible for everyone? I've tried every app there is.
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: I tried first thing in the morning, tried at night.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: After eight weeks of hating it and not seeing even
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: the tiniest change.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: I gave up again.
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: My mind doesn't want to deal with another thing to
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: check off my already never ending to do list. Would
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: love your advice on how to make meditation enjoyable. Much
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: love from the Caribbean, Laura.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Hi Laura, Hello, Hi Laura. Our special guests today are
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Justin and Shelley. They wrote a book called How We
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Ended Racism. So Shelley has a lot of experience, well
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: so does Justin with meta meditation. So Shelley, why don't
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: you start first about meditation and ADHD and how you
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: combine the two.
• 44:05
  Speaker 10: Absolutely, So, look, can I be an ADHD er and
• 44:09
  Speaker 10: say this is fucking awesome? Absolutely interrupt and interrupt you
• 44:13
  Speaker 10: right away.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just keep interrupting us, I mean, and then
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: we'll get the picture, no problem.
• 44:18
  Speaker 7: Yeah, And what's fucking awesome is the sunshine and your
• 44:21
  Speaker 7: sunglasses and you're sitting outside in a tank top somewhere
• 44:23
  Speaker 7: in the Caribbean. Let me say that I am married
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: to someone who also does not enjoy meditation in any way,
• 44:33
  Speaker 7: doesn't necessarily see the benefits if you will, And what
• 44:38
  Speaker 7: I will tell you is that there are many modalities
• 44:41
  Speaker 7: to meditation. I think there's this stigma that you have
• 44:46
  Speaker 7: to you know, sit down, cross legged, do an app
• 44:50
  Speaker 7: close your eyes, do breathing exercises. And that's actually not
• 44:54
  Speaker 7: true at all. When my husband, for example, plays guitar,
• 44:58
  Speaker 7: he's meditating or sure, he's lost in some other universe
• 45:02
  Speaker 7: and that is his way, that is his meditation.
• 45:05
  Speaker 8: When I have a friend.
• 45:07
  Speaker 7: Who's a runner, and when she runs and trains for marathons,
• 45:11
  Speaker 7: you know she runs long distances, she's completely.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: I tried that now, Yeah.
• 45:15
  Speaker 7: Well, I mean, I think the idea is that there's
• 45:18
  Speaker 7: something that is there, whether it's when you're walking along
• 45:22
  Speaker 7: the beach because you're in the Caribbean, when you're swimming,
• 45:24
  Speaker 7: when you're paddleboarding, when you're where do you find that
• 45:28
  Speaker 7: your mind is the quietest, you know, where there's got
• 45:33
  Speaker 7: to be something. There's got to be one thing. If
• 45:35
  Speaker 7: it's listening to music, if it's playing music, if it's
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: but the idea is that wherever you find that bliss,
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: wherever you find that moment, then I would say that's
• 45:45
  Speaker 7: where you should go to meditate, right that, Because I
• 45:49
  Speaker 7: think this stigma of like I have to do it
• 45:51
  Speaker 7: in a certain way or use a particular app or
• 45:53
  Speaker 7: something is not correct. It's not correct at all. And
• 45:57
  Speaker 7: the other thing I will tell you is that there's also,
• 46:00
  Speaker 7: you know, benefits to just mini meditations or microhabits. And
• 46:05
  Speaker 7: so what I will say to you is that even
• 46:07
  Speaker 7: if you're just doing breathing exercises throughout the day that
• 46:12
  Speaker 7: takes sixteen seconds ten seconds, you know, Chelsea, I remember
• 46:16
  Speaker 7: you and I were talking about the meditation exercise of
• 46:19
  Speaker 7: six one eight or four seven eight, which is like
• 46:22
  Speaker 7: breathing in for four, holding for seven, exhaling out for eight.
• 46:26
  Speaker 7: What that does is it recalibrates your vagus nerve so
• 46:30
  Speaker 7: that you can calm yourself, you can center yourself. Even
• 46:32
  Speaker 7: if you just do that every time you wash your
• 46:34
  Speaker 7: hands right after you go to the bathroom or you're
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: in the kitchen or whatever, and you start incorporating these
• 46:40
  Speaker 7: mini habits in your life, that is meditation too. That's
• 46:44
  Speaker 7: also a form of meditation, and you can get the
• 46:46
  Speaker 7: benefits of it right because it recenters you. It brings
• 46:49
  Speaker 7: you back to the present moment, and you're able to
• 46:52
  Speaker 7: now not just necessarily react, or you're able to be
• 46:56
  Speaker 7: self aware that your mind has wandered.
• 46:58
  Speaker 8: Oh my mind wandered. Let me bring it back.
• 47:00
  Speaker 7: And so in long forms that may not work for you,
• 47:03
  Speaker 7: but in short forms that is maybe there's a way
• 47:06
  Speaker 7: that it will give you a sense of self awareness.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Laura, where is that place that you find bliss?
• 47:12
  Speaker 10: It's difficult because I don't know, Like you always make
• 47:15
  Speaker 10: jokes that you have ADHD, but if you.
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: Have it, it's just it's not something that's that goes away.
• 47:20
  Speaker 10: I have about eight hundred channels in my head that
• 47:22
  Speaker 10: are constantly giving some kind of signals.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: And it's very rare that they're completely turned off.
• 47:30
  Speaker 10: Some like if I'm caught in a really really really
• 47:32
  Speaker 10: good show on Netflix, then that that sometimes you lose
• 47:34
  Speaker 10: yourself in something like that. Mm hmm, if it's a
• 47:37
  Speaker 10: really good book. But I'm not, Like I tried marathon running.
• 47:41
  Speaker 10: I didn't all trust, It's just my brain doesn't fucking stop.
• 47:43
  Speaker 10: It doesn't stop.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: It doesn't stop. But what you can, I hear you,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: and you're right, I don't have ADHD properly, so I
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: don't know, you know, I'm always just joking about it.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I think I have more add but no.
• 47:53
  Speaker 8: But it's fine. It's funny.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: I left my ass off, But I think that whatever
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: you can do to just relinquish all of the noise,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: like the added noise, since you already have so much
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: noise in your head. Whatever activity can allow you to
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: put your phone away for an hour, two hours, whatever
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: the best challenge is for you. Maybe it's thirty minutes
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: to begin with, maybe it's ten minutes. But put your
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: phone away and get lost in the activity of what
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: you're doing. And reading a book is a perfect example.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: If it's a really good book and you get lost
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: in it, doesn't that feel so good when you realize, Oh,
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I've been reading for thirty minutes and I haven't even
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: looked at my phone.
• 48:27
  Speaker 10: Yeah, but I was going to suggest and this is
• 48:29
  Speaker 10: the thing. I need my phone for it, because what
• 48:31
  Speaker 10: I've noticed is that your podcast. That's how it started,
• 48:34
  Speaker 10: because I don't listen much to podcast, but I was
• 48:36
  Speaker 10: looking for something because my brain was going after I
• 48:38
  Speaker 10: had the strokes.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: It was I had to go off all the meds
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: and anyways.
• 48:42
  Speaker 10: It was fucking horrible, and I was trying to find
• 48:44
  Speaker 10: some way to focus.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: I could do my.
• 48:46
  Speaker 10: Job because I own my own company, I cook for people,
• 48:49
  Speaker 10: and I was just putting so much pressure on myself
• 48:52
  Speaker 10: and then the podcast is just like you have this
• 48:54
  Speaker 10: noise in the background that keeps you just focused enough
• 48:57
  Speaker 10: and it quiets down all the other trap that's going on,
• 49:00
  Speaker 10: and I just keep going and going.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: So it would involve my phone, but it is like listening,
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: it's very soothing. You wouldn't think it, but it is.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: That's okay that you're listening on your phone as long
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: as you're not on your phone while you're enjoying the activity, Like,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: don't interrupt that activity with other activities. It doesn't matter
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: how many things are going on in your head. You
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: know what happens when you pick up your phone and
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: interrupt something that you're doing, or you interrupt you know,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: you're in the middle of something and then you're like, oh,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go do this, I'm going to go
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: do that. The point is it's to be as present
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: as possible. Right, that's present minded awareness, Like that's it.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: You're paying attention to the activity that you're doing, and
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: the goal is to find the activity that brings you
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: to that so that the voices are a little bit
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: duller and all of the traction that's going on in
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: your head becomes a little bit less chaotic. And when
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: you notice that you're feeling that way, then that's an
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: activity that you should do again, you know, with the
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: intention of Okay, I'm going to put my phone away
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: for this amount of time whatever your big distractions are,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: to remove them from the thing that is going to
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: make you just really be focused and pay attention. And
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I promise you that if you keep practicing this.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: I gave up.
• 50:10
  Speaker 10: I have to be honest. I had a good, like
• 50:11
  Speaker 10: eight week cycle going and then I gave up.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: I know, but you're not going to be able to
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: meditate right now. So just what we're saying is find
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: the show, find the book, find the podcast, whatever it is,
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: and practice doing that for a certain amount of time
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: every day, and I promise you will start to become
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: more focused. You won't, you know, you don't believe that now,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: but it will. So that's a gift you're just going
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: to give to yourself. All right, justin, did you want
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: to chime in?
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah? I would love to.
• 50:40
  Speaker 6: Actually, Laura, So there's this really amazing book that I know.
• 50:44
  Speaker 6: It's one of the best books that I've ever seen
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: on meditation, and it's written specifically for meditation, like one
• 50:51
  Speaker 6: of the titles originally was going to be Meditation for
• 50:53
  Speaker 6: people who can who can't Stop thinking. That's not the
• 50:57
  Speaker 6: actual title. The title is Stay Woke, A Meditation Guide
• 51:01
  Speaker 6: for the rest of us. Happened to write I happen
• 51:04
  Speaker 6: to write this book shameless plug just.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Recently learned the word plug.
• 51:09
  Speaker 5: I recently learned what.
• 51:12
  Speaker 8: I have a different definition for plug.
• 51:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I do too, Actually a few a few, but no,
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: I'm actually sharing this with you because I'm one of
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: these people who I don't have ADHD, but I can't
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: stop thinking. And one of the biggest myths about meditating,
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: it is a myth.
• 51:26
  Speaker 5: It is a lie. It's bullshit.
• 51:28
  Speaker 6: No one's ever done it ever in their life. And
• 51:30
  Speaker 6: if they told you they've done it, they're alive. People
• 51:33
  Speaker 6: say that they if they to meditate, I have to
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: get my thoughts to stop or get my mind to
• 51:37
  Speaker 6: stop thinking. That would literally be like saying, oh, I'm
• 51:41
  Speaker 6: going to meditate, I need to get my heart to
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: stop beating. If your mind stops thinking, you're dead. Like
• 51:47
  Speaker 6: the mind thinks, that's what it does. That's literally what
• 51:51
  Speaker 6: it does. Like the heart beats, that's what it does,
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: whether we like.
• 51:53
  Speaker 5: It or not.
• 51:54
  Speaker 6: And what we have to learn how to do when
• 51:57
  Speaker 6: we're meditating or anything that bringes into this state. Is
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: what we're really hoping for is to get our thoughts
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: to work for us instead of against us. The reason
• 52:05
  Speaker 6: why there's a struggle is not because you have too
• 52:08
  Speaker 6: many thoughts. It's because you feel like your thoughts are
• 52:10
  Speaker 6: pulling you out of the moment that you want to
• 52:11
  Speaker 6: be in. And so Chelsea's invitation and Shelley's invitation are amazing,
• 52:16
  Speaker 6: but I really want to invite you into this nuance
• 52:19
  Speaker 6: to think.
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: I'm hearing you talk.
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: About your thoughts like a problem, and I want you
• 52:26
  Speaker 6: first to reorient yourself to say that you and your
• 52:30
  Speaker 6: mind is not a problem. That's actually the thing. You've
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: got a diagnosis that sometimes when we get these now,
• 52:38
  Speaker 6: we run this story in our head that says, my
• 52:39
  Speaker 6: brain's a problem, and.
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: If you have a problem, you're.
• 52:42
  Speaker 6: Going to be fixing it right instead of going, how
• 52:46
  Speaker 6: do I use this that I have to work in
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: favor of me? So I just want to reorient your
• 52:51
  Speaker 6: language around that a little bit and help you see
• 52:53
  Speaker 6: that there's no problem happening here. What there is is
• 52:56
  Speaker 6: a desire for you to be more present in your life.
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: And this is what I think all of us are
• 53:02
  Speaker 6: inviting you into.
• 53:03
  Speaker 10: You know, no, because I used to use the ADHD
• 53:05
  Speaker 10: as my superpower, like you can do so much stuff.
• 53:09
  Speaker 10: But after I got sick, my mind just kind of
• 53:11
  Speaker 10: became my enemy.
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: Well, and I think too, because you've had you know,
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: some traumatic brain events. You may need some time to
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: heal with that. You know.
• 53:20
  Speaker 10: That's that, and that is everyone kept saying, give it time,
• 53:23
  Speaker 10: give it time. And we're I think ten months in
• 53:25
  Speaker 10: now and only now I'm starting to feel a bit
• 53:29
  Speaker 10: like myself again. Yeah, and that's and I am. And
• 53:32
  Speaker 10: I have like a journal. I listened to your shit.
• 53:34
  Speaker 10: I tried the twenty one days a habit forming thing.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: I did it. I'm still doing it.
• 53:38
  Speaker 10: I bought a special journal for it, to do it
• 53:40
  Speaker 10: in the morning and the evening. And I noticed that
• 53:43
  Speaker 10: with certain things.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: I really really do try to be grateful.
• 53:46
  Speaker 10: Like certain things that I couldn't be grateful a few
• 53:48
  Speaker 10: months ago, that I'm like, I'm sleeping again, you know
• 53:50
  Speaker 10: shit like that.
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love, So I.
• 53:53
  Speaker 10: Do try to, like I really am applying more of
• 53:56
  Speaker 10: the present stuff. But it's difficult if your brain is
• 53:59
  Speaker 10: natural friend at the moment and it kind of messes
• 54:03
  Speaker 10: with the system.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I like what Justin said. I think that's
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: really nice that, like, listen, you're recovering. Your brain is
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: your friend, not your enemy, regardless of how crazy your
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: thoughts are, how frenetic it may seem, it's your friend,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: and you can make friends with your brain, you know.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's true, Laura. And I'm really serious.
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: I'm not I'm honest to God, not just sharing this
• 54:24
  Speaker 6: with you to promote my book at all. I'm sharing
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: with you because I actually really think it would help.
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: Like I really am a person who's with you, Like
• 54:31
  Speaker 6: my mind is going all the time, and I thought
• 54:34
  Speaker 6: I was somebody who could never meditate. And so that's
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: literally why why I decided to write this is because
• 54:40
  Speaker 6: people write these meditation books thinking that you know, everybody
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: can just sit and cross their legs, and you know,
• 54:46
  Speaker 6: like Shelley was talking about it, and we all can't
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: do that, and so we need a space that we
• 54:50
  Speaker 6: can be able to drop into ourselves. So just anyway,
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: just check out my book. I promise it will help you.
• 54:55
  Speaker 6: It's like the biggest gift to me when I hear
• 54:56
  Speaker 6: somebody going.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: Through that what was the title again.
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: It's called Stay whe A Meditation Guide for the rest
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: of Us. Okay, all right, I know woke means all
• 55:04
  Speaker 6: kinds of bullshit. Now, it didn't mean that when I
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: put the book out. But it's not about that. It's
• 55:09
  Speaker 6: about you know, helping us. A meditation guide for the
• 55:12
  Speaker 6: rest of us, you know. So, yeah, you got it,
• 55:15
  Speaker 6: all right.
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: My elderly mother likes to say she's woke. She thinks
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: it's the thing that you have to say to everyone.
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: Now, I'm woke, go mama.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: Well I feel like this was a very productive phone call.
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope it was helpful.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: This is very cool. You need to come perform here.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: This is I live on an island called Puasa. It's
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: next to Aruba.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Well, i'll be there. I'll be there this weekend.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: And it's gorgeous.
• 55:37
  Speaker 10: It's like everything you can think of a of a
• 55:39
  Speaker 10: Caribbean paradise.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, the Caribbean is pretty gorgeous. So you're lucky. Well,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I'm glad for you have and heal. Keep healing and
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: keep doing the work. You're gonna you're gonna get to
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: a better place. You're coming out of it.
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean I meant that I watched your show
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: and that was the first.
• 55:55
  Speaker 10: Time in three months that I left.
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was I laughed so hard. I watched it
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: twice and I laughed again the second time.
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: That's amazing.
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, thanks Laura, thank you so much.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, bye Laura, all right, bye, Shelley.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: I loved what you said about like the short little
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: snippets do because I do have ADHD and that has
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: been something that's like helped me so much, is to
• 56:20
  Speaker 4: just sprinkle them through the day.
• 56:22
  Speaker 8: Yeah, it's big.
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, let's take a quick break and move back to
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: wrap up with Justin and Shelley, and we're back.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: That's my baby voice.
• 56:38
  Speaker 8: That's also your doggie boys.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, I haven't seen Bernice in so long. I can't
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: wait to embrace her and have her reject to be I'm.
• 56:46
  Speaker 5: Allergic to dogs. It's the worst. Oh yeah, I know it.
• 56:50
  Speaker 5: I hate it because dogs are so cute.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: I'm in the market for some new dogs anyway, since
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Bert fucking died and Bernice is here or she's no
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: that it was months ago. Don't worry, but I'm in
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: the market and I'm ready to rumble. I just need
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: a full house and that's operational. And then I'm just
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: going to add to my brood. Who knows what's going
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: to happen next in the dog world with me.
• 57:11
  Speaker 8: A whole pack.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I love it, and probably I see these videos on
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: Instagram where people have like eight or nine chowls, and
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's what I want. I want to come
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: home and have eight different colored chowls running towards me
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: like a like a kibble commercial.
• 57:23
  Speaker 7: Oh, like a moving carpet. Yes, yes, you'll be like
• 57:30
  Speaker 7: the Queen of England, like.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. I bet people always are confusing me with
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: her anyway. I mean, well, especially since she died. Oh no,
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: there's a new queen.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: I forgot.
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: I thought they all died anyway. Thank you guys for
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: being on the show. I appreciate both of your advice.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: It was but very great. Actually, you guys both gave
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: great advice. And the book is called How We Ended
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Racism by Shelly Tagilski and Justin Michael Williams, and it's
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: available now, so please go get a copy, and get
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: several copies actually and hand them out to all the
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: fucking nsholes you know.
• 58:03
  Speaker 8: Amen, Amen, let's do this together.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: Amen. Thank you guys. Thank you for having la Yeah,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: my pleasure. Thank you for coming on. Appreciate it.
• 58:13
  Speaker 8: Bye, Chelsea.
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: Do you have some new dates for us?
• 58:17
  Speaker 9: Oh?
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I do?
• 58:18
  Speaker 8: You know?
• 58:19
  Speaker 10: I do?
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of We added lots of Canadian cities, Canadians,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: I'm coming. We added about fifteen new tour dates. I'm
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: coming to Denver again, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Richmond, Virginia,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Santa Rosa, California, Gary and Deana, Baltimore, Verona, New York,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: and about seven dates in Canada. So go to Chelseahandler
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: dot com. I am performing everywhere. I will be on
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: tour all for the rest of the year and through December,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: and then next year I'm going to be touring all year.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: So come and get it, you guys. It's good times
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: and it's a very very much needed reprieve from all
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: the fucking madness that's going on in this world. So
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I'm here to bring joy and sunshine. Do you have a.
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: Holiday themed question for Chelsea? Please send us all the
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: questions you need answered about crazy family get togethers, arguing
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: over which cranberry sauce recipe to use, and all your
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: holiday drama. Just send your questions to Dear Chelsea podcast
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered
• 59:27
  Speaker 4: by Brad dickerd executive producer Catherine law And be sure
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com