Latest / The Bolt Report / The Bolt Report | 6 October

Transcript

The Bolt Report | 6 October · The Bolt Report

0:10
Speaker 1: Jims is the report.
0:14
Speaker 2: Well, good evening and welcome to the Bolt Report. I'm
0:16
Speaker 2: James macpherson filling in for Andrew Bolt, who, by the way,
0:19
Speaker 2: I'll be talking to tomorrow night about news of the
0:22
Speaker 2: day and how he's recovering after his heart surgery. So
0:25
Speaker 2: whatever you do, don't miss tomorrow night. Coming up this evening,
0:28
Speaker 2: the PM calls for politicians to tone down their retric
0:32
Speaker 2: after a Queensland man is arrested over a threat to
0:35
Speaker 2: kill him. My panel will get into that shortly. Donald
0:38
Speaker 2: Trump says discussions with Hamas on a piece deal are
0:41
Speaker 2: progressing rapidly. Greg Sheridan will give us his thoughts and
0:44
Speaker 2: a novel's suggestion as to how the cash strapped state
0:47
Speaker 2: of Victoria could raise much needed revenue hire out their
0:51
Speaker 2: prison cells to other states who've run out of room
0:54
Speaker 2: for their fallons. More on that later. And finally, some
0:57
Speaker 2: common sense coming out of the UK. Please will get
1:00
Speaker 2: new powers to crack down on pro Palestine demonstrations. I'll
1:04
Speaker 2: have more on that with Esterkraku shortly. But first, two
1:08
Speaker 2: Isis brides and their four children were snuck back into
1:12
Speaker 2: Australia last week, which is kind of surprising. Because when
1:16
Speaker 2: rumors of their return were raised in Parliament more than
1:19
Speaker 2: a month ago, with the Prime Minister just flat out
1:22
Speaker 2: the night it was happening.
1:24
Speaker 3: I refer to reports in the Australian that government officials
1:27
Speaker 3: are helping to bring ISIS terrorist brides to Australia. What
1:30
Speaker 3: actions has your government taken to guarantee the safety of
1:35
Speaker 3: Australians if these people return?
1:39
Speaker 4: Cool to the Prome Minister, those reports are not accurate.
1:43
Speaker 5: Is the Prime Minister aware of any info that suggests
1:46
Speaker 5: ISIS brides are seeking to return to Australia and is
1:49
Speaker 5: your government making preparations to receive them?
1:54
Speaker 2: The call to the Prime Minister are referred to my
1:56
Speaker 2: previous answer not accurate, the PM said, I refer to
2:00
Speaker 2: my previous answer, he replied when asked again, which for
2:03
Speaker 2: the uninitiated, is a fancy way of saying I lied
2:06
Speaker 2: before and I'm sticking with it. The only problem was
2:09
Speaker 2: that New South Wales Police revealed that same day that
2:12
Speaker 2: they were liaising with federal counterparts on what arrangements needed
2:16
Speaker 2: to be in place for the very people Anthony Aberinezi
2:19
Speaker 2: insisted did not exist. It was the political equivalent of
2:23
Speaker 2: phoning your boss to say you're homesick while the bartender
2:26
Speaker 2: is tagging you in photos. The next day, faced with
2:29
Speaker 2: accusations and he misled Parliament, the PM offered an explanation
2:33
Speaker 2: so slippery it could have been bottled and sold as
2:36
Speaker 2: olive oil.
2:38
Speaker 4: The questions that were asked yesterday to went to whether
2:45
Speaker 4: the Australian government was giving support to this cohort.
2:50
Speaker 6: I confirmed that.
2:50
Speaker 4: The Australian Government is not providing assistance to this cohort.
2:56
Speaker 2: Next time your wife accuses you of having selective hearing,
3:00
Speaker 2: remind her things could be worse. She can be married
3:01
Speaker 2: to elbow who listens to questions like a man hearing
3:04
Speaker 2: through a sock. He reckoned. The question went to whether
3:07
Speaker 2: his government was giving support to ISIS Brides. Okay, well
3:12
Speaker 2: listen again to what he was asked.
3:15
Speaker 5: He is the Prime Minister aware of any info that
3:17
Speaker 5: suggests Isis Brides are seeking to return to Australia.
3:22
Speaker 2: Crystal clear, no trickery, no gotcha, Just are they coming back?
3:26
Speaker 2: It's the kind of question you could answer honestly, you know,
3:29
Speaker 2: if you were into that sort of thing.
3:31
Speaker 1: But no.
3:32
Speaker 2: Elbinezi responded to the question with a lie and then
3:35
Speaker 2: lied about the nature of the question to cover up
3:37
Speaker 2: for lying in response to the question. It was all
3:40
Speaker 2: most impressive. Kind of like watching a man juggle grenades.
3:43
Speaker 2: You don't want him to stop, but you do want
3:45
Speaker 2: to stand back a little. Remember, this is a guy
3:48
Speaker 2: who won an election promising Australians my word is my bond. Well,
3:54
Speaker 2: I've got two hundred and seventy five dollars that says
3:56
Speaker 2: his word couldn't bond. A post it note. Can we
4:00
Speaker 2: really afford to have a PM who is loose with
4:02
Speaker 2: the truth when it comes to matters of national security.
4:06
Speaker 2: This isn't some trivial fear about Stage three tax cuts
4:10
Speaker 2: or a broken promise sober power bills. This is national security.
4:14
Speaker 2: We're talking about people who ran off to support a
4:17
Speaker 2: death cult that beheaded people and posted the gore on
4:20
Speaker 2: social media four weeks after the PM claimed it was
4:24
Speaker 2: not accurate that these charming individuals were returning to Australia.
4:29
Speaker 2: Isis brides have returned to Australia. You'd think the government
4:33
Speaker 2: might have mentioned it, but no, it all happened secretly
4:36
Speaker 2: and quietly. Well today, my colleagues at Sky News put
4:40
Speaker 2: a few modest questions to the Prime Minister about these
4:44
Speaker 2: isis brides the kind of questions, simple, easy to answer,
4:49
Speaker 2: the sort of thing a functioning democracy might expect to
4:52
Speaker 2: be answered, and to absolutely no one's surprise, Anthony Albanesi
4:57
Speaker 2: refused to answer any of them. For example, we asked him,
5:02
Speaker 2: now that isis bribes have returned, could he explain why
5:05
Speaker 2: he described reports of returning isis brides as not accurate?
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Speaker 2: No response. We asked him, does the government support the
5:15
Speaker 2: return of isis brides? Silence? What about this question? He
5:21
Speaker 2: was asked what policies or procedures guide the government's response
5:25
Speaker 2: to news that these individuals who went to a war
5:28
Speaker 2: zone to support the most murderous terror organization on the
5:31
Speaker 2: planet and now back here in Australia crickets. He was
5:36
Speaker 2: asked if the government had nothing to do with the
5:38
Speaker 2: isis brides returning to Australia, who facilitated it? Nothing? Not
5:43
Speaker 2: even a creative half truth that the Prime Minister spent
5:46
Speaker 2: the best part of the last few years perfecting. The
5:50
Speaker 2: PM doesn't want to lie to the Australian people anymore,
5:54
Speaker 2: so he's decided the best way to prevent himself from
5:56
Speaker 2: lying is to simply keep his mouth closed. This is
6:00
Speaker 2: less a media strategy than it is a form of
6:02
Speaker 2: witness protection, by which I mean protection for himself. It's
6:06
Speaker 2: a bold new standard in political integrity. If you can't
6:09
Speaker 2: tell the truth, just don't say anything. It's almost like
6:13
Speaker 2: he's thinking, if I just stay very, very still, maybe
6:17
Speaker 2: the country won't notice me. The only comment we got
6:20
Speaker 2: from the PM was this, which had to be dragged
6:23
Speaker 2: out of him at a news conference where he was
6:25
Speaker 2: announcing a security pact between Australia and Papua New Guinea.
6:30
Speaker 7: Australia has shown itself willing to assist Australians who managed
6:36
Speaker 7: to smuggle themselves out of Syria in issuing passports and
6:43
Speaker 7: assisting them to return back to the country.
6:45
Speaker 4: Australia did not provide assistance. The Australian citizens, of course,
6:51
Speaker 4: have the right to enter Australia.
6:54
Speaker 2: That's what occurred here.
6:55
Speaker 8: Why do we repatriate them?
6:56
Speaker 2: That's what occurred here? Right, So neither the Isis brides
7:02
Speaker 2: nor their kids who would have been born in Syria
7:05
Speaker 2: were issued with Australian passports. As for Australian citizens having
7:09
Speaker 2: the right to enter Australia, I note that Australian citizens
7:12
Speaker 2: caught overseas during the COVID pandemic didn't have the right
7:16
Speaker 2: to return to Australia, or at least not immediately. If
7:20
Speaker 2: only they'd been supporting in islamus terror group, they might
7:22
Speaker 2: have gotten more sympathy. But if people leave this country
7:25
Speaker 2: to support an Islamist regime committed to the defeat of
7:29
Speaker 2: Western civilizations such as ours, should they have a right
7:32
Speaker 2: of return. It's a bit disingenuous for Albanesi to shrug
7:36
Speaker 2: and point to the law. He's the chief legislator. Speaking
7:41
Speaker 2: of the law, it's an offense for a person to
7:44
Speaker 2: intentionally enter or remain in a declared area in a
7:47
Speaker 2: foreign country where a designated terror group is engaged in
7:50
Speaker 2: hostile activities, as these women did. The penalty is ten
7:56
Speaker 2: years jail. So will these isis brides be charredjudged? We
8:01
Speaker 2: could ask the PM, but we all know we're not
8:03
Speaker 2: going to get a response. Meanwhile, Immigration Minister Tony Burke,
8:07
Speaker 2: who was bounding around Sydney Airport last week hugging guards
8:10
Speaker 2: and arrivals like he was a family member, had the
8:13
Speaker 2: good sense not to roll out the welcome map for
8:15
Speaker 2: the Isis brides or at least not personally. Then again,
8:19
Speaker 2: maybe he was at the arrivals gate discreetly handing them
8:22
Speaker 2: labor out to vote cards, but just clever enough not
8:24
Speaker 2: to be caught on camera this time. Tony Burke spokesperson
8:28
Speaker 2: put out a statement today saying, and I quote the
8:31
Speaker 2: Australian government is aware of media reporting about a cohort
8:36
Speaker 2: including Australian citizens seeking to return from Syria. You have
8:41
Speaker 2: to laugh. The Immigration Minister would have us believe he
8:45
Speaker 2: gets his information on TERRTS sympathizers arriving in this country
8:50
Speaker 2: from the same source as you the papers will. Thank
8:54
Speaker 2: god for the news media. Otherwise we wouldn't have a
8:57
Speaker 2: clue what was happening in our country. And if you
9:00
Speaker 2: leave the Immigration Minister, neither would he.
9:06
Speaker 9: Well.
9:06
Speaker 2: The Queensland man has been arrested for allegedly threatening to
9:10
Speaker 2: kill the Prime Minister. Australian Federal Police have charged the
9:14
Speaker 2: man with using a carriage service to make a threat
9:17
Speaker 2: to kill. That's an offense punishable by ten years jail.
9:21
Speaker 2: The PM had this to say.
9:23
Speaker 4: We have seen in other countries in the United States,
9:28
Speaker 4: in the United Kingdom, we have seen public figures, whether
9:32
Speaker 4: it be politicians or other public figures targeted. I have
9:38
Speaker 4: consistently said we need to, wherever possible, turn down the
9:42
Speaker 4: temperature of debate and to agree and disagree respectfully as
9:51
Speaker 4: much as is possible.
9:53
Speaker 2: Two points. First, anyone guilty of threatening to kill the
9:57
Speaker 2: Prime Minister should receive the maximum sentence, full stop. Second point,
10:02
Speaker 2: if the PM is insisting on respectful disagreement, he might
10:06
Speaker 2: want to chat with his own colleagues. I mean, maybe
10:10
Speaker 2: he could have a word with Treasurer Jim Chalmers, who
10:13
Speaker 2: just the other week labeled anyone who disagrees with him
10:15
Speaker 2: on climate change a cooker and a crackpot. Maybe the
10:20
Speaker 2: PM could have a word with his labor colleague Julian Hill,
10:23
Speaker 2: who went on national television to accuse Senator Jacinta nampajimp
10:27
Speaker 2: Price of spreading racist tropes when everyone knows she did
10:31
Speaker 2: no such thing. The PM might want to have a
10:34
Speaker 2: word to Victorian labor Premier Justin to Allen, who said
10:38
Speaker 2: anyone questioning whether trans ideology should be taught to primary
10:42
Speaker 2: school children is disgraceful and is guilty of interfering with
10:46
Speaker 2: efforts to prevent child suicides. The PM might want to
10:50
Speaker 2: have a word with Ed Husick, who, when asked whether
10:53
Speaker 2: there were any good people who went to the March
10:55
Speaker 2: for Australia rallies, told the ABC and I quote, I
10:59
Speaker 2: haven't met a good fascist yet. Joining me now is
11:03
Speaker 2: former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and former Labor
11:07
Speaker 2: Senator Stephen Conroy, two men who do definitely know how
11:12
Speaker 2: to disagree respectfully. Michael Kroger, I'll start with you. The
11:16
Speaker 2: PM should take the lead on lowering the temperature and
11:19
Speaker 2: start by cleaning up his own house, shouldn't he, Well.
11:23
Speaker 10: He should, But more importantly, James, this is a Prime
11:26
Speaker 10: minister who can't even keep his own electorate office open.
11:30
Speaker 10: The anti Semitic Jewish hatred that's been permeating much of
11:34
Speaker 10: this country and we see outside his own electorate office
11:38
Speaker 10: he's had to close it down and move because he
11:42
Speaker 10: can't put a stop to the disgraceful behavior of people
11:46
Speaker 10: who allege there in favor of Palestine. So when he
11:51
Speaker 10: talks about the temperature being lowered, remember anti Semitism in
11:56
Speaker 10: this country is at record levels. Australia is embarrassed on
12:00
Speaker 10: the world stage because of those extremist views which permeate
12:04
Speaker 10: this country on a daily basis. Yeah, he can do
12:08
Speaker 10: nothing about it, and the extent that he talks about it,
12:11
Speaker 10: no one's listening to him. No one on the left's
12:14
Speaker 10: extremists have taken any notice of him. So why should
12:17
Speaker 10: ad Music or just Cindra All I'm take any notice mate.
12:21
Speaker 6: Yeah.
12:21
Speaker 2: I also note that some people pointed out today now
12:24
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister knows how many in the Jewish community
12:26
Speaker 2: feel Stephen. I think it's a little disingenuous for the
12:30
Speaker 2: PM to be warning about lowering the temperature when he's
12:33
Speaker 2: just returned from the UK, having told everyone at the
12:36
Speaker 2: labor conference there that Australian labor were protecting democracy, and
12:41
Speaker 2: I don't think he meant protecting it from Vladimir Putin,
12:44
Speaker 2: the implication being that other political opponents in this country
12:48
Speaker 2: want to destroy democracy. You can't chat like that and
12:52
Speaker 2: then accuse other people of ramping up the temperature, can you.
12:57
Speaker 6: Well, I don't actually think I know. I'm free answering here.
13:00
Speaker 6: I haven't spoken to Elbow about this, but I don't
13:02
Speaker 6: actually think he was talking about Putin, or actually even
13:07
Speaker 6: talking about in Australia. I think if you look across Europe,
13:10
Speaker 6: you're seeing authoritarian leaders getting elected. I think if you
13:15
Speaker 6: look at how Trump is behaving in the US, sending
13:18
Speaker 6: in the National Guard pretending there's a war, I mean
13:20
Speaker 6: he's actually using an old piece of legislation which says
13:25
Speaker 6: when at war, you can declare these emergencies. There is
13:28
Speaker 6: clearly no war in any of these towns, So I
13:31
Speaker 6: think he's actually making a more broader point. I'm not
13:34
Speaker 6: talking about anybody in Australia about democracy is under threat
13:39
Speaker 6: across Europe in the Western world, including the behavior of
13:44
Speaker 6: Donald Trump.
13:46
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people would say Donald Trump
13:48
Speaker 2: went into those cities to clean up crime and was
13:50
Speaker 2: very successful in Washington and so on. But obviously, if
13:54
Speaker 2: Elbow's defending democracy, you've got to ask, well, who's he
13:57
Speaker 2: defending democracy from? Who are the people trying to destroy it?
14:00
Speaker 2: I think the implication was pretty clear. Let's move on
14:04
Speaker 2: to the Liberal Party, where there's no shortage of hot
14:06
Speaker 2: retoric coming from all sides. Michael Kroger, what do you
14:10
Speaker 2: make of claims published in the Sydney Morning Herald that
14:13
Speaker 2: Peter Dutton labeled Andrew Hasty primarily responsible for the coalition's
14:18
Speaker 2: electoral loss.
14:20
Speaker 10: Look, it's a bit hardn't to know what to believe
14:22
Speaker 10: at the minute, because Nick mentioned his cheering that review
14:24
Speaker 10: has come out and basically said that Peter didn't reflect
14:28
Speaker 10: on any particular individual. But the wider point is if
14:32
Speaker 10: people in the Liberal Party think we lost the election
14:34
Speaker 10: because of we didn't have a strong enough policy on
14:36
Speaker 10: defense or that it wasn't detailed enough, well they're wrongheaded.
14:40
Speaker 10: This was an election about cost of living issues where
14:43
Speaker 10: we lost, and it was an election about lies over Medicare,
14:47
Speaker 10: and we lost that battle too, if he did in
14:49
Speaker 10: twenty sixteen. So this was an election where label were
14:54
Speaker 10: much closer to the ground. And by that I mean
14:58
Speaker 10: the nonsense they spread about Medicare, which people believed, wage
15:02
Speaker 10: increases for childcare, aged care, low paid workers, Medicare, urgent care, clinics,
15:09
Speaker 10: and student debt. That's and lies about Medicare, that's the
15:12
Speaker 10: genesis of their victory. They were closer to people's living rooms.
15:16
Speaker 10: Having opposed nuclear for nine years to come out and
15:18
Speaker 10: say we're in trayory NWC. It's a great policy, but
15:20
Speaker 10: it doesn't really affect any votes because it's ten to
15:22
Speaker 10: fifteen years away. So to offer cheaper petrol, to offer
15:27
Speaker 10: a thousand dollars rebate the next year. They're good policies,
15:31
Speaker 10: but they're unmoored to the Liberal Party brand equity, which
15:34
Speaker 10: is fiscal responsibility. So that's the core of why we
15:38
Speaker 10: lost the election. It's not anything really to do with
15:40
Speaker 10: Defense or Peter or Andrew Hasty at all.
15:43
Speaker 2: James Stephen Conroy, I know you're a labor man, but
15:46
Speaker 2: would you agree it's not great for the country to
15:49
Speaker 2: have the opposition just fighting amongst themselves while the government
15:54
Speaker 2: effectively gets a free ride.
15:57
Speaker 6: Look, there's no question countries out best when it has
16:00
Speaker 6: a strong government and a strong opposition.
16:02
Speaker 1: I think that is just.
16:04
Speaker 6: Absolute political fact. I appreciate, and I've been through leadership tussles.
16:09
Speaker 6: I've been through these processes. But I also think if
16:15
Speaker 6: I was advising the Liberals, I'd say just everyone have
16:18
Speaker 6: a bex and a good lie down. At this stage,
16:20
Speaker 6: after the worst defeat in Liberal Party history, there is
16:25
Speaker 6: bound to be constant polling, constant commentary from the media
16:31
Speaker 6: saying how dreadful. You know, the Liberals are wiped out,
16:35
Speaker 6: They're never coming back. That is normal. I remember after
16:39
Speaker 6: two thousand and four Mark Latham, no one thought we
16:42
Speaker 6: could win the next election. Absolutely myself included. But you know,
16:47
Speaker 6: so everyone have a bexs and a good lie down
16:49
Speaker 6: because the cycle will turn. It may take it a little
16:52
Speaker 6: bit longer, it may be six years rather than three years,
16:56
Speaker 6: but the cycle will turn and labor will come under
17:00
Speaker 6: sometime in the future. So while I'm a great admirer
17:04
Speaker 6: of Andrew Hasty, I think he's a courageous man in
17:07
Speaker 6: his previous life, and he's proved himself to be courageous
17:11
Speaker 6: man in a number of adversarial situations that he's been
17:15
Speaker 6: in courts recently. I think people just need to have
17:19
Speaker 6: a bex and a good lie down because this is
17:22
Speaker 6: it's just part of the normal cycle. You've copped a thumping.
17:26
Speaker 6: Everyone is down. Everyone wants to give their reasons as
17:29
Speaker 6: to why it didn't work and what went wrong. But
17:32
Speaker 6: just on this one final point. You know, one nation
17:36
Speaker 6: of jumped from seven to eleven percent. That's four percent
17:39
Speaker 6: bled to the right. They're usually on about seven percent,
17:44
Speaker 6: So four percent of bled to the right. On the
17:46
Speaker 6: Liberal party, about ten percent have bled to the center.
17:51
Speaker 6: So you know, you've really got to decide whether you're
17:54
Speaker 6: going to be playing in the margins over on the right,
17:57
Speaker 6: or you're going to try and win the center. So
17:59
Speaker 6: these ideas, is it one nation's on a huge surge.
18:03
Speaker 6: I token backs and have a good lie down.
18:05
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that's good advice, Steven Conroy. I think
18:08
Speaker 2: a lot of people believe the Liberal Party have been
18:10
Speaker 2: lying down for way too long. We've got to go
18:12
Speaker 2: to a break. But before we go to a break,
18:14
Speaker 2: I do want to ask you, Michael Kroger, there's no
18:18
Speaker 2: evidence that Susan Lee can turn this around? Is there?
18:22
Speaker 6: Yes, there is.
18:25
Speaker 2: There is.
18:25
Speaker 10: I think she's been extraordinarily patient. By the way, since
18:28
Speaker 10: she became leaders She's had to put up with a
18:31
Speaker 10: lot of what i'd call unfortunate behavior by people talking
18:34
Speaker 10: publicly about things when they should keep these things behind
18:37
Speaker 10: closed doors. It's not always possible, but I think five
18:40
Speaker 10: months on from the election, it's about time people, you know,
18:43
Speaker 10: pull their heads in and got behind Susan Lee. So far,
18:47
Speaker 10: I think she's done a pretty good job in very
18:49
Speaker 10: difficult circumstances, so I think everyone should give her a chance.
18:54
Speaker 10: There's the policy review going on. Let's say, let's hope
18:57
Speaker 10: that they came out sooner rather than later. But having
19:01
Speaker 10: just elected her as leader, I don't think there's much
19:05
Speaker 10: cause for a lot of complaints, and people should support
19:08
Speaker 10: the leader that they just elected, not running down behind
19:13
Speaker 10: her back, because that doesn't help the party.
19:15
Speaker 2: And it only helps the ALP.
19:17
Speaker 10: So if people want to help Albo's re election chances,
19:20
Speaker 10: they should go on the way they are.
19:22
Speaker 2: James, Well, there's no doubt that Albanezi is certainly being
19:25
Speaker 2: helped by the Coalition at the moment, whichever way you
19:28
Speaker 2: cut at Michael Kroger, Stephen Conroy, always a delight, Thanks
19:31
Speaker 2: so much. We're coming up after the break. More on
19:33
Speaker 2: Trump's Garza peace plan. Willhelmas accept the terms, and even
19:38
Speaker 2: if they do, can they be trusted? I'll talk to
19:40
Speaker 2: Greg Sheridan next. Plus could the garden state Victoria become
19:44
Speaker 2: the incarceration state? More in a moment about a novel
19:48
Speaker 2: plan for Victoria to put some money in its state coffers.
19:51
Speaker 2: Stay tuned now. Look, everybody knows that the Victorian state
19:59
Speaker 2: coffers are deer than a politician's promise, But there may
20:02
Speaker 2: be a way for Labor Premier just to Alan to
20:05
Speaker 2: generate much needed revenue aside from taxing everything that moves.
20:09
Speaker 2: I mean, the Institute of Public Affairs has put out
20:12
Speaker 2: a report suggesting the Victorian government could make two hundred
20:15
Speaker 2: and ninety million dollars a year by leasing out vacant
20:19
Speaker 2: prison cells. States like Queensland and South Australia, where prisons
20:24
Speaker 2: will soon be at capacity, could pay Victoria to house
20:27
Speaker 2: their fallons. Victoria the incarceration state. I like the sound
20:32
Speaker 2: of it. Imagine the number plates made, of course by
20:34
Speaker 2: interstate criminals. Victoria's being paid to babysit its genius. Mia Schlitt,
20:40
Speaker 2: a research fellow at the Institute of Public Affairs, joins me,
20:43
Speaker 2: now me, welcome to the program. I am intrigued by
20:47
Speaker 2: this proposal, but before we get into the substance of it,
20:50
Speaker 2: I have to say I think a lot of people
20:52
Speaker 2: would be surprised to hear Victorian jails weren't already full.
20:59
Speaker 11: Thanks for having Meames.
21:00
Speaker 12: Look, I'm sure many Victorians are quite surprised if their
21:03
Speaker 12: prisons aren't full, especially given the context of the crime
21:07
Speaker 12: crises that we're seeing on our street, with far too
21:09
Speaker 12: many violent offenders who are basically being led off the
21:12
Speaker 12: hook for committing very extreme offenses, and quite rightly so,
21:16
Speaker 12: I think many Victorians are disappointed that those criminals aren't
21:20
Speaker 12: facing consequences. But what I think Victorian taxpayers would be
21:24
Speaker 12: even more surprised by is just how much they are
21:26
Speaker 12: paying to keep these empty prison cells afloat. I mean,
21:30
Speaker 12: just for an example, in Geelong, there was the Western
21:33
Speaker 12: Plains Correction Center, which could cost one billion dollars to construct.
21:37
Speaker 12: It's sat empty for two years and taxpayers spent thirty
21:41
Speaker 12: six million dollars per year keeping those cells open.
21:45
Speaker 2: So that's Victoria. They've got cells available, God knows why
21:51
Speaker 2: with the state of Victoria. But you say there is
21:54
Speaker 2: a lack of prison cells in other states, tell me
21:58
Speaker 2: about that and and then your proposal to fix it.
22:01
Speaker 11: All that's right.
22:04
Speaker 12: So unlike Victoria, there are many states around the country
22:07
Speaker 12: who are actually strug struggling with a capacity crisis. For example,
22:11
Speaker 12: in Western Australia we had reports coming in last year
22:15
Speaker 12: that there were prisoners sleeping on mattresses on the floor
22:18
Speaker 12: of prison cells because they weren't enough beds. Or in
22:20
Speaker 12: Queensland there were stories about prisoners being held in police
22:24
Speaker 12: watch towers because they didn't have capacity. Now we know
22:27
Speaker 12: that constructing prisons is an extremely expensive thing to do,
22:31
Speaker 12: so the IPA has proposed that we could help out
22:34
Speaker 12: these states. Rather than them needing to build more prisons,
22:37
Speaker 12: they could actually just send their excess prisoners here and
22:40
Speaker 12: then we could use that revenue that is earned to
22:44
Speaker 12: reinvest into the criminal justice system.
22:46
Speaker 2: I guess it's not a completely novel idea. I mean
22:49
Speaker 2: a couple of hundred years ago, the Brits didn't they
22:52
Speaker 2: Has this been done before in Australia.
22:56
Speaker 11: Well, that's right, it's not a new idea.
22:58
Speaker 12: What we have looked at is this has worked very
23:00
Speaker 12: successful in the United States. States like Mississippi and Oklahoma
23:05
Speaker 12: have seen huge success. And what they've done is is
23:08
Speaker 12: they've reinvested that money that they've earned from leasing out
23:12
Speaker 12: those prison places into crime prevention.
23:14
Speaker 11: And that's what we need here in Victoria. I mean,
23:16
Speaker 11: the reality is this state is broke.
23:19
Speaker 12: There is no more money, and we know the best
23:21
Speaker 12: way to deter crime is to put more police on
23:24
Speaker 12: the streets that we don't have money to do.
23:26
Speaker 11: So.
23:26
Speaker 12: Let's say if the IPA has proposed that the Victorian
23:29
Speaker 12: government could earn about two hundred and ninety million.
23:31
Speaker 11: Dollars a year from this proposal.
23:34
Speaker 12: Some of that could be spent putting more police on
23:36
Speaker 12: our streets to stop crime before it happens and make
23:39
Speaker 12: our streets safer.
23:41
Speaker 2: Just out of curiosity, what does it cost per year
23:43
Speaker 2: to house a prisoner in Victoria? What sort of money
23:46
Speaker 2: per person could the state generate if they were to, say,
23:49
Speaker 2: take criminals from New South Wales.
23:54
Speaker 12: Well, it varies quite significantly across Australia, but in Victoria
23:58
Speaker 12: it costs about two hundred and twenty two thousand dollars
24:01
Speaker 12: to house a single prisoner per year. That's about six
24:04
Speaker 12: hundred dollars per day. So what we've proposed, obviously there
24:08
Speaker 12: would be a negotiation between various governments about what the
24:11
Speaker 12: rate would be, but we've set the rate should be
24:13
Speaker 12: at a marginal attack, the marginal rate of housing a prisoner,
24:16
Speaker 12: and it would amount to about two hundred and ninety
24:18
Speaker 12: million dollars per year.
24:20
Speaker 2: That would be an amazing thing, wouldn't it If Laura
24:22
Speaker 2: Biding citizens were leaving Victoria for safer pastures while the
24:27
Speaker 2: state imported. Are the state's criminals? I got to ask this.
24:31
Speaker 2: So this is a suggestion from the IPA. It makes
24:33
Speaker 2: economic sense. I mean, is there any suggestion that anyone
24:37
Speaker 2: in the Victorian labor government would consider this would the
24:42
Speaker 2: liberal opposition take this on board.
24:46
Speaker 12: Well, the Premier was asked about it today and she
24:49
Speaker 12: didn't have much to stay on it. But certainly we've
24:52
Speaker 12: been out in the community and they are sick and
24:53
Speaker 12: tired of a lack of action here in Victoria. Any
24:56
Speaker 12: criminal justice reform that's been implemented has made the situation worse.
25:00
Speaker 12: Mean to take one look at the bail laws which
25:02
Speaker 12: have led us to this situation where violent criminals are
25:05
Speaker 12: not being locked away. So the reception from the community
25:08
Speaker 12: has been let's take this on It's.
25:10
Speaker 11: A novel idea.
25:11
Speaker 12: It's worked in the United States as evidence for it.
25:14
Speaker 12: If we want to get tough on crime, we have
25:15
Speaker 12: to start getting smart on crime, and reforms like this
25:18
Speaker 12: the way to go.
25:19
Speaker 2: It could also bring down the crime rate in other states.
25:22
Speaker 2: I mean, if people knew you get convicted and jailed,
25:25
Speaker 2: you could end up in Victoria, maybe people would stop
25:27
Speaker 2: committing crimes. Miya Schlitt, always good to talk to you,
25:30
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Interesting proposal.
25:33
Speaker 1: Well.
25:33
Speaker 2: US President Donald Trump said earlier today that discussions with
25:37
Speaker 2: Hamas were proceeding rapidly as parties moved toward agreement on
25:41
Speaker 2: his twenty point peace plan. He did warn however that
25:45
Speaker 2: and I quote time is of the essence or massive
25:48
Speaker 2: bloodshed will follow, something nobody wants to see. For the
25:52
Speaker 2: latest stum joined by Greg Sheridan, who is the foreign
25:54
Speaker 2: editor at The Australian. Greg, thanks for coming on the
25:57
Speaker 2: program tonight. The big issue, of course, the return of
26:00
Speaker 2: the hostages forty eight in all, twenty who are believed
26:04
Speaker 2: to still be alive. Of course, last time Hamas returned hostages,
26:08
Speaker 2: the body of Shiribabas was found to have been replaced
26:11
Speaker 2: with the body of a local Garzen woman. So it's
26:14
Speaker 2: a measure of the duplicity of Hamas that they can't
26:17
Speaker 2: even be trusted to return the right corpses. So I
26:19
Speaker 2: say all of that to ask, despite Trump's confidence the
26:23
Speaker 2: deal will get done, there's so many places it could
26:26
Speaker 2: go wrong even if things are agreed.
26:32
Speaker 13: Well, that's right, James, So I agree absolutely that Donald
26:38
Speaker 13: Trump deserves a lot of praise for this deal. This
26:42
Speaker 13: is the only constructive thing that's happened in the last
26:45
Speaker 13: two years. It puts to shame the idiotic nonsense of
26:48
Speaker 13: our government in recognizing a Palestinian state that doesn't exist.
26:52
Speaker 13: According to Marco Rubio, when the French did that. That
26:54
Speaker 13: led Hamas to abandon negotiations, and it led Israel to
26:59
Speaker 13: consider an exing part of the West Bank, which would
27:01
Speaker 13: have been a big mistake. So Trump has given us
27:05
Speaker 13: the only positive thing in the last two years, really,
27:09
Speaker 13: I mean, but it can fall over in a million
27:15
Speaker 13: different ways, and Hummas is already rejecting certain key.
27:18
Speaker 1: Parts of the deal.
27:20
Speaker 13: However, I think Trump himself is slightly bluffing when he
27:24
Speaker 13: says otherwise there will be terrible bloodshed. I don't think
27:28
Speaker 13: the Israelis can do any more anything more terrible than
27:32
Speaker 13: they've been doing lately. And I think Israel needs this
27:36
Speaker 13: deal as much as Hammas does. It needs it morally
27:39
Speaker 13: and politically and economically. I mean, one of the things
27:42
Speaker 13: that Trump said was Israel has lost a lot of
27:45
Speaker 13: support around the world, and I'm going to get it
27:46
Speaker 13: all back.
27:47
Speaker 1: Now.
27:47
Speaker 13: That's another smart comment by Trump. It shows that Trump
27:50
Speaker 13: understands one of the really bad dynamics underway here is
27:55
Speaker 13: that Israel is becoming, except the United States.
27:59
Speaker 1: A pariahs state.
28:00
Speaker 13: That's terrible, it's grossly unfair, it's wrong. I think Israel's
28:04
Speaker 13: current military actions are excessive, but Israel should not be
28:09
Speaker 13: a pariah's state. But if we don't get this deal,
28:13
Speaker 13: I don't think Israel can just go on endlessly doing this.
28:17
Speaker 13: I mean, they might go back to doing this for
28:19
Speaker 13: another couple of weeks or something. But in fact, in
28:21
Speaker 13: the fine print of the deal it says it can
28:23
Speaker 13: be implemented in those parts of Gaza which are not
28:26
Speaker 13: controlled by Hamas. My guess would be if this deal
28:29
Speaker 13: falls apart, you might see its implementation anyway in that
28:35
Speaker 13: majority of Gaza which is not controlled by Hamas well.
28:39
Speaker 2: Speaking of Hamas, the leader of the Hamas delegation was
28:42
Speaker 2: on TV at the weekend saying the deaths of Ghazans
28:45
Speaker 2: would be He said part of the price paid to
28:51
Speaker 2: help pave the way to Jerusalem, a stain that will
28:55
Speaker 2: forever haunt the occupation. I'm just wondering, how do you
28:58
Speaker 2: negotiate with someone who talks, even in the middle of
29:01
Speaker 2: peace negotiations with Jerusalem still as their ultimate goal.
29:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're absolutely right, James.
29:09
Speaker 13: But that's the truth, which you know, the Albanezi government,
29:13
Speaker 13: in all its fatuous, you know, comments about this matter,
29:17
Speaker 13: ignores Hamas is not in any sense a reasonable interlocator.
29:22
Speaker 13: Is it is a dedicated terrorist group which follows an
29:26
Speaker 13: extreme Salarpist almost death cult ideology. It hates Jews, and
29:32
Speaker 13: it hates Americans, and it hates all of the West,
29:34
Speaker 13: but it particularly hates Jews. In its cosmology, Jews are
29:39
Speaker 13: a mortal enemy always, so it's never going to have
29:43
Speaker 13: peaceful coexistence with Israel. But what the most intelligent Israeli
29:47
Speaker 13: policymakers have been talking about lately, strategic analysts like Ahudyari
29:51
Speaker 13: and you know, former IDEF commanders and former heads of
29:55
Speaker 13: many of the intelligence agencies, is Israel is going to
29:58
Speaker 13: have to work out how to bring this to a
30:03
Speaker 13: conclusion without giving Hummas a veto over it. At the moment,
30:07
Speaker 13: Hummas can just say we're going to keep fighting, and
30:10
Speaker 13: Israel just goes on with an industrial lever level of
30:14
Speaker 13: bombardment and so on. That's not sustainable. The moral cost
30:17
Speaker 13: of that is too high, too many people dying, and
30:19
Speaker 13: also the military benefit of it is very small, because
30:23
Speaker 13: even if you killed every single Hummas operative today, tomorrow
30:27
Speaker 13: the young guy who wants to be an Islamist extremist
30:30
Speaker 13: will say, hey, I'm Hummas Mark too, and then you've
30:33
Speaker 13: got the same problem.
30:34
Speaker 1: So you're going to have to have something different.
30:37
Speaker 4: Now.
30:37
Speaker 13: A lot of Israelis are suggesting Israel makes a partial
30:41
Speaker 13: withdrawal but stays in most of Gaza, stops major operations,
30:47
Speaker 13: but says to Ghazans, you don't get a dollar of
30:51
Speaker 13: reconstruction aid until all the hostages are released and Hummas surrenders.
30:56
Speaker 13: But in the meantime, we'll give you plenty of food
30:58
Speaker 13: and plenty of medical aid, and any Hummas leader who
31:01
Speaker 13: puts his head up gets knocked off. Israel has every
31:05
Speaker 13: right to wage war against Hamas, but I don't think
31:08
Speaker 13: Israel can really resume the pace and scale of its
31:12
Speaker 13: operations in recent months because it's not yielding any military
31:16
Speaker 13: benefit anyway. I mean, if there are another five hundred
31:19
Speaker 13: Hamas fighters somewhere or other, the cost of getting every
31:23
Speaker 13: one of them is too high.
31:25
Speaker 1: And even when they're all got.
31:26
Speaker 13: You still haven't solved the problem because you've still got
31:28
Speaker 13: a big hindal land of people who will call themselves terrorists.
31:31
Speaker 13: What Trump offers them is a way to get somebody
31:35
Speaker 13: else to administer Gaza, not them and not Humas.
31:39
Speaker 2: Let me finish with this question, Greg, Let's believe it's
31:42
Speaker 2: all going to work out and in some shape or form,
31:45
Speaker 2: we get a piece steal. Does Donald Trump a deserve
31:49
Speaker 2: a Nobel Prize for that? And b would he actually
31:53
Speaker 2: get one?
31:56
Speaker 13: I don't think you'll get one, But look, I think
31:59
Speaker 13: Nobel prizes. I mean, James, wouldn't you be embarrassed to
32:01
Speaker 13: get a Nobel prize?
32:02
Speaker 1: I mean, look at all.
32:03
Speaker 13: The dictators and murderers and everything who get Nobel Prizes.
32:07
Speaker 13: There's an old saying, you know, one Nobel prize and
32:09
Speaker 13: you've got a chance of peace. Two Nobel prizes and
32:12
Speaker 13: the conflict will never be will never be solved. I
32:15
Speaker 13: mean North Vietnamese murderous dictators one Nobel Prizes for making
32:20
Speaker 13: peace with the Americans over the blood of the South Vietnamese,
32:24
Speaker 13: and they never honored the peace deal anyway.
32:27
Speaker 1: I think the fact that Trump is so obsessed.
32:29
Speaker 13: With the Nobel Peace Prize is a big mark against Trump.
32:32
Speaker 13: But on the other hand, he's probably having fun with it.
32:35
Speaker 4: Now.
32:35
Speaker 13: It's a maga campaign to get him a Nobel Peace Prize.
32:38
Speaker 13: I can think of nothing that is of less consequence.
32:41
Speaker 13: But it's part of the great Trump circus. And you know,
32:44
Speaker 13: I suppose good on him for it. Really, maybe they
32:47
Speaker 13: could run it like a Eurovision song contest, and the
32:49
Speaker 13: more votes he gets, you know, the bigger chance he's
32:53
Speaker 13: got of getting that. But look, he should be worry
32:55
Speaker 13: much less about that. I don't think he really is
32:57
Speaker 13: worried about that. Notwithstanding all of this, A lot of
33:00
Speaker 13: what Trump does is a kind of an in joke,
33:02
Speaker 13: you know, it's a self parody. But in any event,
33:05
Speaker 13: I don't think they'll give him one anyway whatever he does.
33:07
Speaker 2: Come on, Greg, if Obama got one for doing nothing,
33:10
Speaker 2: Trump should get one for trying to do something.
33:13
Speaker 13: Well, my point exactly just exactly what purpose is it?
33:18
Speaker 2: Just a reminder to our viewers. You can see a
33:20
Speaker 2: special documentary investigating the rise of anti Semitism that'll be
33:24
Speaker 2: broadcast here on Sky News Australia this Wednesday at seven
33:28
Speaker 2: thirty pm. Greek Sheridan, I always really enjoy catching up
33:30
Speaker 2: with you. Thanks so much for joining me tonight. We're
33:33
Speaker 2: going to go to a break when we come back.
33:35
Speaker 2: Clementine Ford, freshly banned from Facebook and Instagram, plans to
33:39
Speaker 2: start her own app, count me in not really but well.
33:46
Speaker 2: Tomorrow is October seven, marking two years since SAMAS terrorists
33:50
Speaker 2: aided and are betted by Palestinian civilians swarmed into Israel,
33:55
Speaker 2: slaughtering women and children and taking hostages. And so of
33:58
Speaker 2: course pro Palestinian surround the world and here in Australia
34:02
Speaker 2: are planning mass demonstrations. It's so obscene that even Home
34:06
Speaker 2: Affairs Minister Tony Burke knows that it's wrong. He slammed
34:10
Speaker 2: the plans being promoted by Stand for Palestine and his
34:14
Speaker 2: butter reer. They have said rather. Tony Burke said, October seven,
34:18
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three was a day of violence and horror.
34:21
Speaker 2: There is nothing to celebrate, all honor in the terrorism
34:24
Speaker 2: of that day. The mainstream Palestinian groups have had the
34:27
Speaker 2: decency to avoid this date. I thought it was interesting
34:30
Speaker 2: Tony Burke now refers to mainstream Palestine groups God forbid.
34:35
Speaker 2: Joining me now is Panel by Panel Sky News contributed
34:38
Speaker 2: to James Bolt and Sky News host Caleb Bond. Welcome guys.
34:42
Speaker 2: I want to start with you, James. Tony Burke has
34:45
Speaker 2: slammed these demonstrations, I think rightly. But they're still going
34:48
Speaker 2: to go ahead tomorrow, aren't they.
34:50
Speaker 14: Yeah, Look these demonstrations, they are offensive, they're deliberately antagonistic.
34:54
Speaker 1: In my view.
34:55
Speaker 14: They shouldn't be going ahead. But at the same time,
34:57
Speaker 14: we do live in a free society, and there is
34:59
Speaker 14: a difference between what people.
35:01
Speaker 1: Should do and what they should not do.
35:03
Speaker 14: And unfortunately this is a case where people should not protest,
35:06
Speaker 14: but they shouldn't also be allowed to protest.
35:09
Speaker 2: I was interested, Caleb in Tony Burk's comments because he
35:13
Speaker 2: said people who celebrate the October seven attacks. Actually was
35:17
Speaker 2: Elbow who said it would not advance the Palestinian cause,
35:20
Speaker 2: which I think is kind of ironic because it was
35:24
Speaker 2: Anthony Albanezi acknowledging a Palestinian state that I must themselves
35:29
Speaker 2: said help to advance their cause.
35:31
Speaker 9: I suppose it depends what you think the Palestinian cause is,
35:34
Speaker 9: isn't it Whether you think it's the ability for people
35:38
Speaker 9: to sort of be able to live in the region
35:40
Speaker 9: without conflict and to feel safe, or whether you think
35:43
Speaker 9: the Palestinian cause is to wipe out Israel and take
35:45
Speaker 9: over the whole joint.
35:46
Speaker 1: Right.
35:47
Speaker 9: If you sit on one side, well, of course you'll
35:49
Speaker 9: be out marching tomorrow, won't you. I mean the idea
35:52
Speaker 9: that you would march on October seven, and sure you
35:55
Speaker 9: can have issues with Israel or say I don't like
35:59
Speaker 9: children being killed in war.
36:01
Speaker 11: Fine, right, that's fine.
36:02
Speaker 9: But if you march on October seven, you are clearly
36:06
Speaker 9: signaling to the world that you have sympathy for what
36:09
Speaker 9: Hamas did on October seven, which was the largest slaughter
36:13
Speaker 9: of Jews since the Holocaust. I can't see any other
36:15
Speaker 9: way to read it.
36:16
Speaker 2: There is no other way to read it. I want
36:18
Speaker 2: you guys to have a look at a video put
36:20
Speaker 2: out at the weekend by Stand for Palestine in Sydney,
36:23
Speaker 2: one of the groups promoting tomorrow's demonstration.
36:27
Speaker 15: Thinking, and I'm wondering, if there were a few hundred
36:30
Speaker 15: more people, what more could we have accomplished? How much
36:32
Speaker 15: could we have overcome of the oppressive state forces that's
36:35
Speaker 15: around us if there were a few hundred more people here.
36:38
Speaker 15: So the question to ask yourself tonight is what the
36:40
Speaker 15: heck were you doing that was more important than this?
36:42
Speaker 2: If we had just a few more hundred people, imagine
36:45
Speaker 2: how we could overcome the police. James Bolt, I don't
36:48
Speaker 2: call these protests anymore. Their demonstrations and their demonstrations of
36:52
Speaker 2: control and dominance. They're demonstrating we can do what we want.
36:57
Speaker 2: Tell me I'm wrong.
36:58
Speaker 14: Look, I don't think a lot of what you said
37:00
Speaker 14: there is wrong, and I think there's just enough plausible
37:02
Speaker 14: deniability in what he's saying is an actual incitement to
37:06
Speaker 14: violence against police. I think he's more just speaking metaphorically.
37:09
Speaker 14: But either way the comments are they're gross. But at
37:12
Speaker 14: the same time, I just after repay, like it is
37:15
Speaker 14: a free society people like that should you know, even
37:17
Speaker 14: if we disagree with the cause, even if we think
37:19
Speaker 14: it's so offensive.
37:20
Speaker 1: If you think is wrong.
37:22
Speaker 14: The idea that government can start saying who can and
37:24
Speaker 14: cannot protest and for what means they can protest? That
37:27
Speaker 14: is more scary.
37:29
Speaker 2: That is the tension, no doubt. Calorbo was talking to
37:32
Speaker 2: a jewishly last night who said he no longer takes
37:35
Speaker 2: his children he lives in Melbourne to the CBD. He says,
37:38
Speaker 2: too dangerous. You watch statements like we just saw. Is
37:41
Speaker 2: it any wonder people, especially Jews, don't feel safe.
37:45
Speaker 3: Yes.
37:45
Speaker 9: Well, he certainly seems to be suggesting that a mass
37:48
Speaker 9: of people would somehow be able to overpower the police,
37:51
Speaker 9: whether that's by physical means or he simply means that
37:53
Speaker 9: there are too many people there that the police would
37:55
Speaker 9: be able to move us on. I don't think it
37:57
Speaker 9: particularly matters. I think the message isially the.
38:00
Speaker 2: Same lawless, which is lawless correct.
38:02
Speaker 9: And we are then able to intimidate the rest of
38:04
Speaker 9: the city, or the rest of the country, or the
38:06
Speaker 9: police force and whatever, and that's not how a civil
38:09
Speaker 9: society or to operate. We're going to talk about this
38:11
Speaker 9: later this evening on the Lake debate, but in the
38:13
Speaker 9: UK now they're going to bring in powers that if
38:16
Speaker 9: you have repeat protests, the police will be able to
38:19
Speaker 9: ban you from doing so. So it's not necessarily to
38:22
Speaker 9: say that you shouldn't have the right to protest, but
38:24
Speaker 9: to say that if you keep doing the same protest
38:27
Speaker 9: week after week, and we're spending shed loads of public
38:30
Speaker 9: money putting the police out to defend that, that we'll
38:33
Speaker 9: be able to say, well, hang on, we've got your message,
38:35
Speaker 9: can you please be quiet for a while. And I
38:37
Speaker 9: think a lot of people will probably be on board.
38:39
Speaker 14: With it, But I just wonder, like, let's go back
38:41
Speaker 14: to COVID right, people were protesting that every single week
38:44
Speaker 14: in Melbourne. We don't want these restrictions. We think they're
38:46
Speaker 14: too arduous. Now would we say okay, you've made your point,
38:49
Speaker 14: or would we say hang on they're actually making a
38:51
Speaker 14: good point. These protesting go ahead. And I just wonder
38:54
Speaker 14: when you give the government the ability to decide when
38:56
Speaker 14: a point has been made and that people shouldn't speak it.
38:59
Speaker 14: I mean, and what else can the government decide the
39:01
Speaker 14: points have been made about? We're in the media, right
39:04
Speaker 14: if a government's given the power to say, hey, before
39:06
Speaker 14: you say something, I am so sure what you're going
39:08
Speaker 14: to say is going to inflame our society that I'm
39:11
Speaker 14: going to ban you from saying it when the media
39:13
Speaker 14: gets hold of documents. I'm thinking about the Pentagon papers
39:16
Speaker 14: in the US, which Nixon tried to stop because it
39:18
Speaker 14: would threaten national security. They were papers that threaten Richard
39:22
Speaker 14: Nixon's leadership.
39:23
Speaker 1: Let's be honest.
39:24
Speaker 14: So when you give the government the power to say
39:25
Speaker 14: you can't say that in the media, we might be
39:28
Speaker 14: able to say something the public should know about, but
39:30
Speaker 14: the government doesn't want to know about. Are we going
39:32
Speaker 14: to be happy we gave them that power of a
39:34
Speaker 14: pro Palestine protest that we then get used against us.
39:37
Speaker 2: You make a great point. My contention is, and it's
39:40
Speaker 2: been said ad nauseum, the problem goes right back to
39:44
Speaker 2: just after October seven, at the Opera House when police
39:46
Speaker 2: allowed people to just have free reign, Jews were told
39:50
Speaker 2: stay home and a clear message was sent protesters can
39:53
Speaker 2: pretty much do what they want, and they have done
39:56
Speaker 2: for the last couple of years. While some pro Palestinian
39:58
Speaker 2: groups are planning demonstration for tomorrow, others are planning a
40:01
Speaker 2: mass demonstration at the Opera House for the weekend, with
40:05
Speaker 2: Israel offering peace to Hamas. At this very moment, I'm
40:07
Speaker 2: not sure what the protesters are protesting about. They say
40:10
Speaker 2: Palestinians are experiencing your genocide, but don't want Palestinians to
40:14
Speaker 2: accept the deal that would end the genocide.
40:17
Speaker 8: I don't know.
40:18
Speaker 3: I think they should.
40:20
Speaker 8: I don't know. Shouldn't you be happy there's a deal.
40:28
Speaker 8: Shouldn't you be happy there's a deal? Oh no, no,
40:32
Speaker 8: you're not.
40:34
Speaker 16: If you're concerned that there's allegedly a genocide, then you
40:38
Speaker 16: should be glad that it's stopping.
40:40
Speaker 7: You're going to.
40:43
Speaker 6: Your cover up?
40:44
Speaker 8: Why you don't want to.
40:46
Speaker 17: Be film but you're on the street.
40:49
Speaker 8: You're on the street.
40:50
Speaker 14: I ask, do you don't trant.
40:53
Speaker 2: To be a film James Bolt, You're watching that clip
40:56
Speaker 2: with a big smile on your face. Tell me what
40:58
Speaker 2: you're thinking.
40:58
Speaker 14: The other beautiful part about fresh out themselves as complete morons.
41:02
Speaker 14: It's useful public information.
41:04
Speaker 9: Is indeed, you just watch that and you go yet
41:06
Speaker 9: you just need a protest art you don't really care
41:09
Speaker 9: about the cause here or the people at Ballistae exactly.
41:12
Speaker 2: Well, appreciate both of you coming on the program. Always
41:15
Speaker 2: good to chat with you. We're going to go to
41:16
Speaker 2: a break. When we come back, we're going to go
41:18
Speaker 2: live to London. Esther Krak who was going to talk
41:20
Speaker 2: to us about powers being proposed for police to shut
41:25
Speaker 2: down protests if they happen too often. Maybe something we
41:28
Speaker 2: could think about that's coming up in just a moment.
41:34
Speaker 2: Well before the break, I was talking to my panel
41:36
Speaker 2: about these constant pro Palestine demonstrations which are now completely
41:40
Speaker 2: out of hand. It looks like the UK government, though,
41:43
Speaker 2: has finally had enough of them. Home Secretaries Shabina Mahmud
41:47
Speaker 2: says she's giving police new powers to crack down on
41:50
Speaker 2: cumulative disruption, meaning if groups keep turning up week after week,
41:55
Speaker 2: authorities can now shut them down or move them on.
42:00
Speaker 18: Protest by often the same group of people, often in
42:02
Speaker 18: the same place. So I want to make explicit in
42:05
Speaker 18: the law that those types of protests with cumulative disruption
42:09
Speaker 18: for communities can attract the same conditions and restrictions that
42:13
Speaker 18: apply to other types of protests, so that the police
42:16
Speaker 18: have absolute clarity that they can use cumulative disruption as
42:20
Speaker 18: a reason for restricting those protests.
42:23
Speaker 2: Joining me now from London is writer and broadcast Esther
42:26
Speaker 2: cragu Esther. Great to have you on the program. What
42:30
Speaker 2: do you make of this decision to give to the
42:32
Speaker 2: police new powers. We were just debating it on the program,
42:35
Speaker 2: whether or not it's a crackdown on free speech or
42:37
Speaker 2: whether it's a wise move to protect social cohesion.
42:42
Speaker 16: Well, all I can say to this is well, well, well,
42:46
Speaker 16: if you look here, what we're seeing now is a
42:49
Speaker 16: labor government that for the last year has been happy
42:52
Speaker 16: to tolerate these pro.
42:53
Speaker 17: Palestine protests, particularly the streets of London. See I no
42:57
Speaker 17: longer recognize that I grew up in Even though there
42:59
Speaker 17: were men Jewish groups that said, actually these protests that
43:02
Speaker 17: are happening on the weekend, that are happening on Saturdays,
43:04
Speaker 17: which are you know, our prime selling days. We've had
43:07
Speaker 17: to close up our shops because we feel unsafe, because
43:10
Speaker 17: our customers feel unsafe. This government did nothing about it.
43:14
Speaker 17: This government did nothing about it because they didn't want
43:16
Speaker 17: to lose the sort of pro gaza vote in seats
43:19
Speaker 17: like Shabana mc mood is from in the West millions
43:21
Speaker 17: in Birmingham.
43:22
Speaker 8: It's also another reason why.
43:23
Speaker 17: You saw Jess Phillips, who's supposed to be the Minister
43:26
Speaker 17: for the Safeguardening of Women and Girls, not want to
43:28
Speaker 17: call an inquiry into the Pakistani raid gangs because she
43:31
Speaker 17: would have lost her seat, which she was actually probably
43:33
Speaker 17: going to lose if she lost about almost six hundred
43:36
Speaker 17: more votes. So this is a government that's only reacting
43:39
Speaker 17: because it's convenient, and the direction they're reacting is now
43:42
Speaker 17: is in quoting on free speech. Suddenly this sort of
43:46
Speaker 17: these protests that for months shabanam Mood said we're completely
43:50
Speaker 17: fine and that is our British right to protest, are
43:52
Speaker 17: suddenly inconvenient and they can draw the same conditions as
43:55
Speaker 17: the other inconvenient protests.
43:56
Speaker 8: So it's just an unseious government.
43:58
Speaker 17: You know, shabanam Mood was made Home Secretary a few
44:01
Speaker 17: weeks ago because she's really kind of the last tool
44:03
Speaker 17: in kiss Dama's arsenal. She's the self proclaimed social conservative
44:07
Speaker 17: in the Labor government. But it just shows how a
44:11
Speaker 17: drift from reality this government really is. It wasn't enough
44:14
Speaker 17: for Jewish groups in this country to say these protests
44:16
Speaker 17: that are glorifying her Mass which has basically which is
44:19
Speaker 17: basically spent the last two years using their people as
44:23
Speaker 17: shields and celebrating the fact that they slaughtered a twelve
44:26
Speaker 17: hundred Jews on October the seventh. These protests are making
44:29
Speaker 17: us feel unsafe. It was when someone, unsurprisingly was killed,
44:35
Speaker 17: two people were killed.
44:36
Speaker 8: In a synagogue in Manchester.
44:38
Speaker 17: The government has decided to add So it's just sad
44:40
Speaker 17: this is where we're at that two people have to
44:42
Speaker 17: die for the government to really see the risk towards
44:45
Speaker 17: Jewish lives here in the UK, and this is where
44:47
Speaker 17: we are. And I actually don't agree with this because
44:49
Speaker 17: I think free speech is free speech and if you've
44:51
Speaker 17: tolerated something like this for this long, then you should
44:53
Speaker 17: really look at the root cause, which is the uncomfortable
44:56
Speaker 17: reality that there are many people in this country that
44:58
Speaker 17: are just anti smmittic.
45:00
Speaker 2: Well, I want to ask you about that. You mentioned
45:02
Speaker 2: the Manchester synagogue attack. The stabber Ji had al Chami
45:07
Speaker 2: released a so that the father of the stabber released
45:12
Speaker 2: a statement after the attack condemning the crime. Faraj al
45:16
Speaker 2: Chami wrote, the al Chami family in the UK and
45:19
Speaker 2: abroad strongly condemns this henous act which targeted peaceful, innocent civilians.
45:23
Speaker 2: We fully distanced ourselves from this attack and express our
45:26
Speaker 2: deep shock and sorrow. That was all very nice, but
45:31
Speaker 2: then it was revealed and on October seven, in the
45:33
Speaker 2: immediate aftermath of the terror attack on Jewish civilians in Israel,
45:38
Speaker 2: this same Faraj al Chami, father of the stabber, allegedly
45:42
Speaker 2: posted on social media that the Hamas terrorists were men
45:45
Speaker 2: of God and that the attack, which involved a slaughter
45:48
Speaker 2: of women and children, was a miracle. What's the latest
45:52
Speaker 2: on the investigation and are you surprised by this development?
45:56
Speaker 17: I'm not surprised at all, and obviously the investigation is
45:59
Speaker 17: still ongoing. I mean it's almost a source of cruel
46:02
Speaker 17: irony that the person who carried out this attack.
46:04
Speaker 8: Was literally called Jihad. I mean you literally couldn't make
46:06
Speaker 8: it up.
46:07
Speaker 17: And unfortunately, this is what the family is doing. They're
46:10
Speaker 17: running a pr spin because the only difference between Jihad
46:13
Speaker 17: and his father is that Jihard had the the the
46:17
Speaker 17: cohonas the actual goal to carry out what his father
46:20
Speaker 17: thought was was an act from men of God really,
46:23
Speaker 17: which is the slaughter of Jewish individuals. And there's no
46:26
Speaker 17: difference between what his father said in the after month
46:28
Speaker 17: of October the seventh and what his son carried out.
46:30
Speaker 17: The only the only reality is he's just saying that
46:33
Speaker 17: to curry favor and to make it look like his family.
46:35
Speaker 17: The family is distancing themselves on really they kind of
46:38
Speaker 17: agree with what he did. And again I go back
46:41
Speaker 17: to shavannahmu Mood, the fact that she sat on TV
46:43
Speaker 17: only a few days ago to say that these propalas
46:45
Speaker 17: assigned marches should show.
46:47
Speaker 8: A little bit of solidarity and read the room.
46:49
Speaker 17: Oh really, the same group that you were happy to
46:52
Speaker 17: let terrorize the streets of London with anti Semitic sort
46:56
Speaker 17: of posts and really hateful things that they suddenly should
46:59
Speaker 17: read the I mean, it's just it's despicable that it
47:03
Speaker 17: took the death of two Jewish people in a synagogue
47:06
Speaker 17: on your kapor no less for the government to finally
47:09
Speaker 17: see the seriousness of this. And you will be surprised
47:12
Speaker 17: to learn that Kastamo himself is Jewish because I cannot
47:15
Speaker 17: believe that this is a man who's tolerated this for
47:17
Speaker 17: this long. But this is the same person who thought
47:18
Speaker 17: Jerry mccorbyn, an individual that had anti Semitism on rife
47:22
Speaker 17: in the Labor Party, would have been a good Prime minister.
47:24
Speaker 8: So again nothing surprises me anymore.
47:26
Speaker 2: Well, we've only got to a minute left, Ester, but
47:28
Speaker 2: I just quickly wanted to ask another thing we've been
47:30
Speaker 2: talking about here. Tomorrow October seven, there are demonstrations planned
47:37
Speaker 2: by pro Pelstine supporters here. People are pretty upset about it.
47:40
Speaker 2: I assume there will be similar events in the UK.
47:44
Speaker 2: How do you think they will be reacted to, especially
47:46
Speaker 2: in light of the killing of Jews just at the weekend.
47:50
Speaker 2: We've only got about thirty seconds left.
47:53
Speaker 17: Well, what you're probably going to see is what we've
47:55
Speaker 17: been seeing with the Palestine Action Group protests, which is
47:58
Speaker 17: hundreds of people, many of whom will be unemployed or
48:02
Speaker 17: retired and being photographed and having their pictures splashed on
48:06
Speaker 17: the cover of newspapers while they're being held by see
48:11
Speaker 17: mass us, probably a few hundred here and there, and
48:14
Speaker 17: then in a few months they'll probably get slapped with
48:15
Speaker 17: the fire and released because nothing will actually be done.
48:18
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we'll watch with interest there and of course
48:22
Speaker 2: here as well. Esther appreciate your time this evening. That's
48:25
Speaker 2: it from me, stick around. Coming up right now is
48:27
Speaker 2: Showy markson