Latest / Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast / Lance Lynn's bold deadline takes & Jordan Walker's return home

Transcript

Lance Lynn's bold deadline takes & Jordan Walker's return home · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome to another addition of Cardinal territory.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Jim Hayes with Lancelyn. Before we start, Lance, I gotta
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: tell you you look regal with artwork behind you and
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: what looks to be a wonderful leather throne that you're
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: sitting on. Where are you? Is that your office?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I am in the office, and it looks like I
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: had a good career, is what it looks like?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Well you did that, all right. Let's talk a little
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: bit of Cardinals baseball. Start a weekend set with the Rights,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: who aren't very good at Bush. They fell to Arizona
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: ten to six yesterday. That's a makeup game. They got
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: two in the first, four in the ninth not nearly
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: enough McGreevy six, and the third gave up four ones.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Not great, not awful. But the Cardinals are floundering right
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: now to two games over five hundred. So a wives
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: man once told me baseball always even things out. So
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: is this who they are, Lance or is this baseball
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: evening things out?
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I think the question is when they got at the
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: beginning of the season, they were projected to win sixty six games, right,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: which I thought was quite low to be honest with you,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: I liked them in like the seventy five range. I
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: think we are starting to see the baseball even in
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: itself out. I think if you just started the year
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: and said, hey, at the end of the year, there'll
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: be a five hundred team, you'd be like, man, that
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: we had some development, right. It goes in waves. As
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: we've all talked about. I think as the year goes on,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: young players get worn down, they get i won't say exposed,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: but they get figured out a little bit. We're getting
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: to that time of the year, so it's going to
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: be some adjustments on they're in the coaching staff and
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: to figure how to put these guys in proper situations
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: to keep succeeding. But also they're gonna have to fail
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: a little bit, and we all knew that coming in.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: So I think they're on pace for what I'm thought
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: they were going to be. And if they're a five
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: hundred team, that's a great year because they got to
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: they got to play somewhat some meaningful baseball. They got
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: to play non non losing baseball, but they also got
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: to develop, and then they also can use the things
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: that they have that are not going to be on
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: the roster next year, not guaranteed to be on the
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: roster next year, to add to what they are trying
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: to accomplish now, and that is the future. So they're
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: putting a good product on the field to show you
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: what they're building, which is what the plan was. They
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: over succeeded early on, which was great, and that gives
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: you confidence. Now, you know, for a five hundred team
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: through their end of the season, that's a great year
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: from what we thought we were going to be. And
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: we can add to that by getting rid of some
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: guys that aren't under contract next year. And I think
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: that's a very productive season for him altogether. Fair point.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: It's a rebuild, and because they played so well, you
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: kind of forget that. Fans want to win. I want
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: to see him win, and if there's a window of
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: opportunity for the postseason, maybe you get a little greedy.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: All right, But I get the question for you, Jim,
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: question for you. You've been wanting to sell from the
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: get go, because Himes told you to tell everybody that
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that's been the plan. So I get it. I get that.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: So but if you look at what they've done, there's
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: no reason to say that they can't be above five
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: hundred team and sell what the pieces that they were
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: planning on selling. Anyways, we're not telling them to sell
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Jordan Walker. We're not selling to sell Mason Wynn, Burley Herrera,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: any of those guys. If you lose May, you lose Standic,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: you lose Jojo. It gives you a chance to see
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: what young arms you have for next year. So you
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: might not have to overpay in the free agent pitching
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: market because you have a guy. Hey, this guy can
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: get it done. This guy's shown that he's big league ready.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I don't have to overpay for this starter or this
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: reliever come free agency because I got a couple of
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: guys that I trust and I know can do it.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: And then oh wait, those guys might get hot in
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the second half. Ben, you might be a eighty seven
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: win team that sneaks into the last wild card spot
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: and you did best of both things. And I think
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: that's what he's trying to accomplish.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I get that. And just so you know, I've said
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: all along, I'm one that believes, so we hear you. No,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: that's not what I've said. I've said, if there's a
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: window of opportunity, you try to climb through it, and
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: there's a way to do it. There's a way to
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: do it without abandoning your long term plan, to try
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: to seize the moment while also adhering to your long
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: range plan.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: That's all I've Yeah, Well, the the people that you
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: will sell right now will give you the ability to
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: put product or put players in positions to still succeed
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: at the biggige level because you should get some good
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: pieces and all you did was collect it so many
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: pieces in all these trades before you've got to see
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: if somebody is ready or somebody is any good right
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: now too, just so you don't have to overpay in
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: free agency next year. So they've got a lot of
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: different ways they can go. I still think they're a
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: five hundred plus team, even if they trade away the
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: guys that we've talked about.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fair again, fair point. But over your left shoulder,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: you also have a statue. What is that a statue of?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I'm just curious, just a man with his thoughts, you
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Just you know, just looking down
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: upon people, just thinking, I forget what.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: So long left shoulder, left folder?
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: What is that? Zeus or something that's yeah, something, that's
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: one of those. That's one of those. Yeah, just sitting there,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: just pondering down upon people.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: That's the difference between a former two time All Star
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: and a hacked media guy. I'm going to guest room
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: with nothing behind me, and you have works of art.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: So well, I have that too. I spent half the
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: time in the guest room with nothing behind me. So
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: but that's because all the kids are. They scream.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: That's good, that's fair. Better to have kids screaming than
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the quiet house, is my point of view. It all
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: starts with starting pitching. Okay, Dustin may goes tonight. He's
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: had a rough strutch, He's had I think one decent
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: start over his last five. So my question is, if
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: you're building for the future, but you also want to
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: exploit whatever opportunity is here, now, what do you do
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: with the starting rotation? Because we've seen Livvy stumble. I
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: know you love Libby. I love Libby too, may Man,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: just curious, how do you handle the starting rotation right now?
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: If it were Lance Linn.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: You make sure may has a good one tonight, and
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: then you don't let him pitch again before you're trading.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: That's where you start with, and then the rest of them,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: with the guys they have in TRIPA A, you're gonna
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: start seeing if they do this like mini cell thing.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: You start seeing Quinn Matthews, some of these guys that
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: are not on the roster. You got to see if
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: they can come up and be productive at the big
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: league level. See what they got to, see how it plays,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: and they learn, right, you want them to learn in
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: a year you don't expect from them instead of learn
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: when you're trying to make a playoff push. So I
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: think that's what they do. They start, Hey, this guy this.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I think we got three guys in the minor leagues
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: that have started that have over a strikeout per inning,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and they have good stuff. Dobbin's already already started a
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: few games. There's three starters that you can start monitoring
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: innings and do those things in the second half that
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: also are good enough to help you win games up
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: here too, because they have stuff and you expect them
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: to be big leaders. So let's ease them int to
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: be in big leaders. And then we can also take
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: some innings and some pressure off of Libby and some
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: guys like that down the stretch to where they can
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: also get a breather and and take the next step
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: for next year. Two.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: They've done a good job Ali and his staff of
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: kind of giving guys extra rest. Dobbins to me, he
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: has earned his keep to this point, right, I want
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: to see Matthews so a lot of strikeouts, still some
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: walks in there. I think he deserves a shot. But
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: keeping in mind, the Cardinals are now on a twenty
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: in twenty stretch, and yesterday the bullpen threw over eighty pitches.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Are we gonna start seeing moves like sooner than later
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: to kind of get through this rough patch?
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're gonna start seeing starters in Triple A
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: come up and throw multiple innings in the bullpen too,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: because that's an easy way to introduce them to the
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: big leagues without putting the pressure on them to go
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: out and throw five six innings in eighty five plus pitches.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: So I think this tailor made for them to use
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: their Triple A starting depth to give not only some
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: arms some breaks up here, but also get them a
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: taste so they're ready to go when they do start.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: It's so much easier the old break in the way
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: you look at Wainwright broke in reliever, right, I broke
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: in as a reliever. A lot of guys break in
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: as relief or throw multiple innings, get their feet wet,
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: don't get their feelings or you know, get some get
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: some feel good juice by throwing in the sixth, seventh
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: inning and non pressure situations. So when you put them
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: in a starter role, they can take that next step.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: Sometimes if you throw them straight into a starter role,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: it might not go well. So why not let them
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: dip their toes in a little bit instead of doing
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: a full plunge. And now's the perfect time to do
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: that with all the innings that you need to pick up,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: and starters can pick up multiple innings out of a bullpen.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So people ask me when I'm out about I'm sure
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: they ask you as you have meetings at your country
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: club or whoever the fancy places that you go, how
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: do we fix this? And so is your view you
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: break the glass on some of the minor league talent
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you have and start infusing it. Now, do you think
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: that's the best way to go about trying to write
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: the ship? If it's possible for this season?
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I think there's a little bit of way to do both.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Like I said, if you are going to trade your
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: into the year free agents that are to be free
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: agents right now, you're going to be able to get
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: some pieces back that are going to make those guys
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: where you've got to kind of see what they got
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: because there's just so many guys that are going to
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: be coming up for roster spots on the forty man
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and this and that. You have to you have to
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: see what they're about, what they're doable, or what they're
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: capable of. Right, but you also have a good idea. It'say, hey,
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: this guy might have good numbers, or this guy might
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: look good in triple A, but we just don't see
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: him being a bona fide big leaguer. And it's like, hey,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: do we add those guys in to get a better package,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: you know, and do stuff like that. So there's a
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: lot of different ways they can go. These guys have
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: all been in the minor league system for multiple years. Now.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: You know what they're about, you know what they're capable of,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: and you know what they project to be. So you
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: should have a good book on them to figure out, Hey,
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: this guy can do what we need him to do.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Let's let's break the glass, or hey, this guy might
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: not be able to do what we think he can do.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Let's get rid of him before another team sees what
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: we know and then why they have some value. So
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of different ways to go, and I
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: think that's what you're trying to figure out as a
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: front office and all that. And you got to use
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: your coaching staff, people that are with these guys every day.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the numbers look like they can be something that
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: their personality or what they have inside of their heart
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: and nuts, and they know that they don't have it
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: or do have it. So it's a lot of different
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: things that you got to bring together to make some.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: Moose awful game yesterday. But a really cool moment we'll
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: get to that. You're watching Cardinal Territory on the Foul
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Territory Network.
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• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Really cool moment and yesterday's cardinal loss. Jordan Walker back
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: at Bus Stadium for the first time since he put
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: on a show in the home run Derby. Crowd gives
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: him a huge ovation first pitch he sees in his
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: first bat. After that ovation, he drills it RBI double
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, you know, this guy is
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: on a tear right now. How great a moment is that,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: especially with the way the team is playing right now
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: for Jordan and the fans. Again, they lost the game,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: but how cool was that moment and to see Jordan
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: doing those type of things.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: That's the beauty of baseball, right. You know, some people
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: didn't want Hi to hit in the Horme run Derby.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: That was you. But the fans got to go back
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: and they had got to enjoy it and had something
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: to watch during the All Star break, and then they
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: got to cheer him on and thank him for giving
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: him something to do on the four day break. That's
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: the beauty of baseball. That's the beauty. You what Jordan's
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: been able to accomplish it this year with all the
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you know, kind of the downs and people giving up
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: on him in the last couple of years. For him
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: to have that ovation, for them to appreciate what he's doing,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: what he's what he's bringing to the table, and him
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: to fill that love is awesome and that's the that's
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's really another way to say it. That's
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: a beautiful thing about baseball and fans as they get
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: to appreciate it. But the player gets to feel appreciated
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: for the things that he's accomplishing because he deserves it.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: He's worked his butt off and he's dealt with going
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: down and up and down and being a little bit
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: at the bottom. And he's still young and you know,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: those things are just going to make him better for
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the long haul.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: And he wanted to go and have fun because it
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: was a boyhood dream and he dominated.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: And I wanted to go win a trophy and he did.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I was I was just fucking He's a fucking champ,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: is what he is.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: It is a fucking champ, all right. I said that's three.
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: After yesterday's game, Ali took the time to point out
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: some I want to get your take on because I
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: thought it was interesting. Look, it was a bad loss yesterday,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Arizona just pounded them in the middle innings. But Ali
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: said he noticed they weren't booze. And he said because
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: he believes that this team, this version of the Cardinals,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: has proven to the fans that yes it's a rebuild,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Yes they have young talent, but they're gonna keep playing
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: hard and playing interesting baseball. Do you agree with that?
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Because I kind of was like, yeah, I get that.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Do you agree with that?
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I think you're seeing people with kids that care. Right,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: fans can get behind that. You're not gonna win every game,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna play perfect baseball. But they see kids
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: that care, that are trying, that are giving effort, and
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: they're playing with energy. I think that's the main thing
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: is what he's getting at it. They see what the
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Cardinals are building, they see that they're putting a competitive
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: product on the field, and they're seeing like kids that care.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: There's really no other way to say it. Guys that
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: want to win. They're not out there just you know, Oh,
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: we know we're supposed to lose this year. We know
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: it's a rebuild. It's like, no, we want to compete
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: because we're talented enough to do that. Now, when we
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: get some more reps under our belt and stuff like that,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: we got a better chance to compete. I'm at a
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: higher level, but they're good enough to compete. They play hard,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: they play the game the right way. They're going to
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: make mistakes, but they're but they're giving the effort and
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: they're not quitting. And that's you know, that's kind of
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: what Cardinals fans are all about. Is, Hey, we play
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: the game the right way, we play hard. We're going
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: to make mistakes, but we're not going to give up,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: and we're going to be here day in and day
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: out trying to win ball games, even if people doubt it.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: So I'm a guy who's worked in other cities. Okay,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I've seen baseball fans. I've lived, you know, I grew
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: up in New York. I think Cardinal fans are great,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: I really do, but it's almost become a punchline best
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: fans in baseball. I saw some stuff percolating on social
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: media recently, things like Nolan Arnado got like his fifth
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: ovation since he's coming back, and some people say that's performative.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think it is. I think Cardinal fans because
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: I've seen it. I've done this out for twenty five
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: years now. I see it in other cities. Cardinal fans travel.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Cardinal fans don't forget. If you're a former Cardinal, they
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: will never forget you. So let's talk about Cardinal fans.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Your Lanceolin, a guy who was known to kind of
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: sometimes buck the trends with the Cardinal way. I know
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: you love Cardinal fans. Tell me your feelings about the
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Cardinal fans and are they the best fans in baseball?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they want you to succeed. They're not.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: It's a weird feeling because I mean I've played for
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: some big markets in New York and in LA and
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: some stuff like that. Every fan has a different like
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: feeling of you as a player. I think Cardinals fans
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: are the most appreciative of what you're trying to do.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: They're also the most understanding, and then they're also the
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: most supportive, if that makes sense. And they also tell
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: you the truth when you need to too. But they're
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: not just gonna jump to conclusions right away, like you
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: got to earn your booze in Saint Louis. They're not
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: just going to do it because they're pissed off because
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: it took them three hours to get in the ballpark
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: and you had a bad enny like you do in
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: New York and l a right. So Cardinals fans understand
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: that you know it's a game you want to win.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: We all want to win, we all want to play well.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: They support you when you do that, and they support
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: you even when you're struggling and when you, you know,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: show that you care and show that you you know,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: want to be there and do those things, and they'll
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: boo you. When then when you don't, when you don't
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: show you care, you don't show your trying and you
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: and you don't look like you want to be there
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: and you suck, they'll boo you too. So yes, I
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: do think they're one of the best all around fans
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: that you can possibly have because they'll give you what
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you deserve, but they won't they won't give it to you,
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: uh unwarranted.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: So for a guy like Lancelin, two time All Star
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: in his career, won a lot of games for the Cardinals,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: but never had a jersey on setting the teams.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: No k Justice suersey.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go on the Limb and say, Cardinal
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: fans always loved Lance Limb. Tell me about your relationship
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: with the fans.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: I think it was a love hate early on, right.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: I think I was the kid that the people forgot.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: We like my youth, I guess. I think it was
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: one of those things where, you know, my first year
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: I was able to be on a World Series team,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: had some success, second year was able to make an
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: All Star team, and then it was like, all of
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: a sudden, I'm twenty five years old and they expected
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: me to be a cy Young Award winner. And you
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: know I did too. It just took me a little
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: bit of time to figure out who I was and
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: what I was about. And I had some good years
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: when you look back at it, my first stint in
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: Saint Louis, so I think I was very much appreciated
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: more after I left than what I was when I
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: was there. And then if you go up go back
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: and look at my career numbers, you know, if I
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: would have played until I was forty two, I think
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I would have blown win rights numbers out of the water.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: But I decided to go enjoy my life and and
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: not stick around and make everybody, you know, watch me
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: until I was until I was old. And I love
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: giving Adam a hard time. I'd say that to his face,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: but I think I was appreciated more after I left.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And you know that means I did what I was
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: supposed to do, and I showed up every day, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: you know, you're going to have your bad ones, but
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I just kept coming back and I kept doing my job,
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: and that's all I all ever wanted to do.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: Time for our final break. You are watching Cardinal Territory
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: on the Foul Territory Network.
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: Todd Father, are you hitting some games this summer?
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  Speaker 2: What's the deal?
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  Speaker 5: And that's the thing that you can be so last minute.
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• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Cardinal Territory. All right, Lance, We kind
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: of touched on this earlier, but from the front office perspective,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: if you're a couple games over five hundred, still playing
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: interesting baseball, still giving fans reason to show up, but
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: you're not necessarily in that playoff picture as it sits,
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: is it easier to go ahead and shed the players
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: that you want to shed without ticking people off? Is
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: there a upside to not being ten games over five
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: hundred at this juncture?
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I think I think, yeah, it helps. Let's be honest,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: if you're teen games over five hundred and you try
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: to shed what you planned on shedding, it is you're
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: gonna get some some backlash. Let's be honest. I think
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: seeing the team kind of come back to you know
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: what we hoped at the end of the year. We
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: hope that they were gonna be a five hundred team
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: at the end of the year or at the beginning
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: of the year. We hope that that's where they were at,
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and they're there. So you stay the course of what
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: your long term plan was, and you should be okay
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: with that. I know we we we spiked and went
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: to you know, A plus whatever it was at one point,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: like nine at the most or something like that, and
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: it gave you a little bit of maybe false hope.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: But I don't think the false hope is far fetched
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: in a sense of this. If you're five hundred team
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: with what you have, and then you do what you're
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: supposed to that you planned on doing. We've already talked
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: about this of shedding the things that you wanted to
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: shed and adding more depth in your minor league system
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that. Giving the depth you already have
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: a chance to show what they want. I've seen kids
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: come up and have second halves after being traded that
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: no one saw coming, or this, or that we got
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: what Swanson last year came up and did that when
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: when Helsley left, who's to say two or three arms
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: won't come up and do what you need to do.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: And you're not shedding anything from your lineup, or you shouldn't,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: right because they're all under contract past this year and
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: through next. You're shedding arms and then you can mix
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: and match arms to get through innings and stuff like
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: that by putting them in the proper positions to be
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: successful as a coaching staff, where they're where the order
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: of the lineup shakes up and stuff like that. So
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: it's not far fetch for them to sell and still
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: be an eighty five to eighty seven team win team.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: And I think if you don't sell, do you see
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: them winning over eighty seven games? If you don't sell,
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: that's my question, Jim to you, Or are then eighty
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: five to eighty seven win team if they if they
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: have a if everything stays the same, then they go No.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: I think I think to get there you have to
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: add pieces but again, what are you going to give
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: up to add? I think you, I think you have
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: pieces that other teams would want. Well, number one would
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: be May if he can get himself on track, I
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: don't know about it.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Mays it a shed piece, So standic, so's joja. Those
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: three are the three pieces that I would shut and
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: then after that I'd have to be blown away to
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: get rid of anybody.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: All right, let me ask you this, since you always
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: take shots at as if Heim even knows that I
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: do a podcast or him. Here, here's here's my proof
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: that that I don't I don't necessarily get marching orders
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: from him. I want you to be hind right now. Okay,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: you're to that company line. You tell that company line,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: don't act. I try to be I try to be fair.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I always try to be fair. That's my job is
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: to be fair. You're hin now, okay. I don't think
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Hein would love you being high.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: He would like that, you're Heim.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Give me one move you would make that would be controversial.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: That isn't one of the moves out there right now
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: that if you were him, you would make that might
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: rop the boat a little bit. If you can come
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: up with one maybe you don't. All right, And here's
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: here's I'm going to make this move.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And and my question to you is I make this
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: move only if I think this. Do I think JJ
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: can play a shortstop every day that I can get
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: away with trading trading Mason Wind for something that is
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: really forward moving on maybe the pitching side, and that's
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: a Hey, I can get a maybe a top three
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: rotation or a top like a one or two young
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: one or two from a team.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: And they just drafted a kid who's a really good shortstop.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: But you don't know if that translates to being a
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: major league short But let me let me say this.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: But you have them have I think you? I think
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: you have a serviceable shortstop that you just gave one
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: hundred plus million dollars to. That's what I'm saying. And
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know where Mason. I don't know where Mason's
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: head's at with not being the lead off guy, not
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: gaining an extension. We can say everything we want about Hey,
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: I'm good with everything. Your feelings get hurt when you
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: think you were the next guy in line to be
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: the leadoff guy and to get an extension and you've
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: gotten either in someone else has that was a rookie
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: when they showed that, that's a slap in the face.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: I don't care what anyone says.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to give you this. I think JJ can.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: I think anywhere you put him, he's he's that kind
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: of athlete, that kind of anywhere you put.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: Him, he's going to be good.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: But I watch Mason play every day and he saves
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: runs with his arm, with his defense, and I know
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: he's had some knees and some back issues. I want
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: to see Mason and JJ up the middle for years.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: If you're rebuilding. They're both young guys. That's a good
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: place to start. And I just don't think whoever you get.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: How many years we're looking in only three years right
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: now because they're not extending, they're not extended in.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I want them to extend him at some point, Okay, I.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Do, That's right. I mean, and you're not if he's not,
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: If you're not going to extend him, and you're just
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: gonna let this fester and let him feel disrespected, which
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: is what and be honest with you what he should feel.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: If I was saying I would feel a little bit,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: that's a I mean, I'm just saying.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: That's possible too. And I know they're JJ and Win
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: are frames, but it's you know, it's it's show business.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: It's not show friends. Teammates always giving teammates, it's not
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: it's not JJ's faulty got the deal.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: But just if you're asking me what I want to
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: see long term, and it ain't my money, I want
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: to see when it's short and Mason at second for
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: years to come, because I don't think you're going to
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: see better defense up the middle from anyone. And I
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: think we haven't seen we haven't seen Mason's upside offensively yet,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: but I think we will.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I think I think if you know, I agree with you,
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: I think is that you're asking me what would surprise people?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: That could be a thing. If it's if there's any
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: disgruntleness at all with Mason, they would know that in
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: the clubhouse or know that in the front office, right,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: So that would be the thing that might surprise people
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: if there's if there is any of that. If there's
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: not any of that, you call Mason, you get a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: six year deal done, because was he twenty four years
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: old only be thirty at the end of that year.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: You've already got JJ, who they're the same age. Let's
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: be honest, JJ's going through what thirty to age thirty two,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So sign them both through the age of thirty two
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: and then see what the heck you have around it.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: And Mason at this moment, before he shows his upside
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: offensively is going to be extremely cheaper than JJ's track was.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Whether it's in the you know, it's going to be
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: a little less just because of the offensive projections. Uh
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: JJ has compared to Mason.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: Nice job, nice job. See you were him with something
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and the next one, the next one it's Herrera.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: If you don't think he's an everyday catcher, you sell
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: him as an everyday catcher right now, get what you
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: can get.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, and he's something right now.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: But he's sitting and you can because you can always
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: you can always find a five million dollar DH on
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: the open market. That's H's right handed.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I like him though, I think he's a special hit.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: I love him, but I'm just saying, like what you're
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: there comes a time to where if he's just a DH,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: which seems to be the path we're heading down.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Listen, I asked you for some controvert and you delivered.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: You've well done, sir, well done. All right, that's gonna
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: do it for this edition of Cardinal Territory. A special
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: thank you for Lancelin for his wonderful background and his
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: controversial responses. We'll see you next time. Hopefully that episode
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: won't suck