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The Leadership Playbook: Lessons Every School Leader Needs · At the Table

0:08
Speaker: Welcome to At the Table, a podcast by the Ohio Leadership Advisory Council.
0:13
Speaker: I'm your host, Dr.
0:15
Speaker: Elizabeth Lolli, director of OLAC.
0:17
Speaker: This is the space where Ohio education leaders come together to explore timely and relevant topics shaping leadership, learning, and school improvement across the state.
0:28
Speaker: Whether you're a superintendent, a principal, coach, or classroom teacher, there's a seat for you here.
0:35
Speaker: Let's get started.
0:37
Speaker: We are here today with Dr.
0:39
Speaker: Denitris Hill, who is the principal extraordinaire- of, uh, Middletown High School, so welcome.
0:46
Speaker 2: Thank you.
0:46
Speaker 2: Happy to be here.
0:47
Speaker 2: It's good to see you.
0:48
Speaker 2: Um- It's good to
0:49
Speaker: see you as well
0:49
Speaker 2: I love the purple.
0:51
Speaker: Of course, Middi purple.
0:52
Speaker 2: Exactly.
0:54
Speaker: Um, before we begin, could you tell us a little bit about your educational journey so far?
0:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
1:00
Speaker 2: So firstly, again, thank you for this opportunity to come and share and spend some time with you.
1:05
Speaker 2: Um, my, my journey is long, uh, but I think it was...
1:10
Speaker 2: It's, it's a good one.
1:11
Speaker 2: So I started my career in 2000 as a classroom teacher at, uh, Houston Independent School District.
1:18
Speaker 2: Um, I taught biology, chemistry, uh, physics.
1:22
Speaker 2: Uh, you name it, if it was in the sciences, I taught it.
1:26
Speaker 2: Um, and from there, uh, I taught for about five years, and then I moved into, um- instructional specialist work.
1:35
Speaker 2: I worked for the Texas Education Agency, where I was an instructional specialist in science, particularly in the areas of biology, chemistry, and physics.
1:44
Speaker 2: Um, much like Ohio, you know, everyone has their state-based assessments, and my role as a instructional specialist was to work with schools who were struggling for the science test.
1:57
Speaker 2: And so I kinda worked myself out of a job in two years because everyone started passing the test.
2:03
Speaker 2: And so that's one of the things that, uh, I seem to have a really, really unique skill set for, is to helping schools get out of these ruts as it relates to state-based and high-stakes testing.
2:14
Speaker 2: So then from there, um, I went back to the classroom for a year, um, and I taught middle school science, which was my absolute favorite role in teaching.
2:23
Speaker 2: And I did that for a year where I was the department chair, uh, for eighth grade science.
2:28
Speaker 2: And again, same thing, we kinda, we, we, we turned the scores around real fast, and everyone was all excited, and then next thing I know, I moved into administration.
2:39
Speaker 2: And so I started my admin career in 2008 in Pasadena ISD, where I was an assistant principal there for five years, going into my sixth year.
2:50
Speaker 2: Um, and, uh, then I was promoted to principal, uh, and back in Houston Independent School District.
2:57
Speaker 2: And so I did that work for a few years, and then I began my own consultant business in 2015.
3:04
Speaker 2: Um, reason being is I rec- recognized that, you know, a lot of schools need support, a lot of districts need support, and everyone needs a coach in some capacity.
3:16
Speaker 2: And so I said,"You know what?
3:18
Speaker 2: You know, I've demonstrated some, some proficiency in this work," and I was recommended a few times to go and support leaders, and so I said,"Why don't I just start a business doing this then?" And so I did that, and uh, I got the opportunity to work with a lot of private schools, um, parochial schools, uh, school district, ISDs, and districts across the nation.
3:40
Speaker 2: And then, uh, I got a call from a lady named Elizabeth Lolli one day.
3:48
Speaker 2: And sh- they needed some support in classroom management and student relationships in Dayton Public Schools.
3:55
Speaker 2: And, uh, I came up, did the training, and before I got back on the plane, she told me,"Don't leave us.
4:01
Speaker 2: Stay with us." Am I embarrassing you?
4:04
Speaker: No, no.
4:05
Speaker 2: No, but, um, so that's how I ended up here in Dayton doing some tr- I mean, not here in Dayton, but how I ended up in Dayton doing some work with, uh...
4:12
Speaker 2: That thing was Dunbar High School where we, we did that work.
4:16
Speaker 2: And, uh, from there, served as a principal of Meadowdale High School and then Belmont High School And then, uh, left Dayton and then went into some work with some consultant work with, uh, Waco, I mean, excuse me, Marlin ISD in Waco, Texas.
4:33
Speaker 2: And, uh, we did some tremendous work there supporting that school district.
4:37
Speaker 2: And then I went to Colorado and was a community superintendent where I worked with schools, uh, that bordered, uh, Denver and the Jeffco area, um, schools that were, again, struggling in the areas of student proficiency, stu- struggling in the areas of, like, performance.
4:57
Speaker 2: And, uh, of those 15 schools that I supervised, we moved 13 of them back to performance.
5:03
Speaker 2: Two of them, a little bit of a harder nut to crack, but, uh, we, we did the majority of the work the way that we were, we intended.
5:11
Speaker 2: Um, and then currently, I am the very proud principal of Middletown High School, um, where, uh, we have the mentality and the mantra of"We're having school today," and our students, our staff are all embodying and embracing that and personifying what it means to have school every day.
5:33
Speaker 2: One of the things I left out, and I wanna go back to it,'cause people don't know this about me, and your question, of course, is, is so poignant that it, it ear- unearths these things.
5:43
Speaker 2: Inside of my journey, I've also served in the capacity of a school bus driver.
5:48
Speaker 2: People don't know that.
5:49
Speaker 2: Uh, people don't know that I've served as a paraprofessional during my time in Houston.
5:54
Speaker 2: Uh, I was a long-term sub, so...
5:58
Speaker 2: And I was an aide.
5:59
Speaker 2: So I've done most of the jobs in schools, so I have an appreciation for the paraprofessional.
6:07
Speaker 2: I have an appreciation for the custodian, appreciation for, for the clerical, you know, that people don't know that I have that affinity towards them, and I always try to honor them in their work because of my experiences in those roles.
6:20
Speaker 2: So yes, I've had the big roles, but I've also had the impactful roles, too.
6:25
Speaker 2: And so thank you for the question.
6:27
Speaker 2: And so now people know a little more about my journey.
6:29
Speaker: Right.
6:30
Speaker: And, and one thing that I would say to embarrass you a little bit- is, um, you're an outstanding presenter.
6:37
Speaker: Uh, when you came in, uh, to present on the classroom management work, um, you were outstanding.
6:43
Speaker: And, and when I listened to what you were doing that day, I knew that we needed to have you in Dayton Public Schools, so- You're an outstanding presenter.
6:52
Speaker: For anyone who's looking for someone to present on school reform or anything else, you're, you're the person to call- Oh, I appreciate that because you're an outstanding presenter, knowledgeable.
7:01
Speaker: Uh, you have those experiences that really help people, so.
7:04
Speaker: Thank you.
7:04
Speaker: We'll have a mutual, um- There
7:06
Speaker 2: you go
7:06
Speaker: um- It's
7:07
Speaker 2: usually how we do
7:07
Speaker: it admiration, yeah.
7:09
Speaker: For each other.
7:10
Speaker: You've been an administrator a long time, Dr.
7:13
Speaker: Hill.
7:13
Speaker: Which of the roles, uh, did you find the most rewarding and meaningful?
7:18
Speaker 2: You know, as you're, you just indicated, I have done a lot of roles, but I will tell you, it's nothing like that high school principal.
7:26
Speaker 2: The opportunity to watch an incoming ninth grader come in, watch them transition, watch them figure themselves out, figure life out, experience success, grow through their tribulations, the opportunity to work with community, to work with teachers, helping them cultivate lessons that are gonna make a lasting impact for years to come, the investment in young people, the investment in a community.
7:51
Speaker 2: To be able to watch them go from the classroom to the sports field, or from the classroom to the band hall, or just to watch them come into class and then go to work, just to see them blossom and bud into that young adult that comes in that really confused kid.
8:08
Speaker 2: It's nothing like being a high school principal.
8:10
Speaker 2: You get to impact so many lives in that role, and what I appreciate about Middletown is that it is a school with one high school in the city, so all things point to the high school.
8:22
Speaker 2: Every student comes to the high school, for the most part.
8:26
Speaker 2: I mean, we have a few outliers, but for the most part, everyone meets up at Middletown High School.
8:31
Speaker 2: So being the high school principal, it's, it's a tremendous role because you're so influential in that role.
8:38
Speaker 2: You know, kids see you and they see their hopes.
8:41
Speaker 2: They see you, they see their, their, their goals.
8:43
Speaker 2: They see their dreams.
8:44
Speaker 2: They see their desires, you know.
8:46
Speaker 2: Especially, you know, being an African American male in this role in a city like Middletown, there's a population of kids that see representation in this role that they just could not even imagine poss- I have kids come to me every morning, they just want that handshake.
9:00
Speaker 2: They want that high five.
9:02
Speaker 2: They want that hug.
9:03
Speaker 2: You just...
9:03
Speaker 2: They wanna hear,"Dr.
9:04
Speaker 2: Hill, what's, what's that you got on today?
9:06
Speaker 2: Dr.
9:06
Speaker 2: Hill, you wear a uniform every day.
9:08
Speaker 2: What's that all about?" They're quest- because they're curious.
9:11
Speaker 2: Why?
9:11
Speaker 2: Because their interest has been piqued, because they see somebody that actually is going to champion for them every day.
9:17
Speaker 2: I speak to my students every day.
9:19
Speaker 2: I greet them every morning on the PA system.
9:21
Speaker 2: I'm in the hallway every day to build that consistency in their lives so they know that they can count on me to be there.
9:28
Speaker 2: So in the role of high school principal, it's the best role because, again, you get to do so much in shaping their trajectory, their future, and their lives, and I thank God for that opportunity each and every day.
9:40
Speaker: Well, I, I have watched you as a high school principal in, um, three different High schools
9:46
Speaker 2: Yeah
9:47
Speaker: For sure And, um, I know that, that what you're saying is, is absolutely how you respond to students.
9:55
Speaker: You know, you've transformed truly the culture- Mm-hmm and the academics of at least three high schools that you've been in here in Ohio.
10:06
Speaker: You talked about transforming those, uh, schools that you worked with in Colorado.
10:11
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
10:12
Speaker: And then also in Texas.
10:13
Speaker: Correct.
10:13
Speaker: The various ones you, uh, transformed there.
10:16
Speaker: What's your process for that?
10:17
Speaker: How can you continue to move from, you know, state to state- Yeah or school district to school district, and be able to do that?
10:25
Speaker: What's the process?
10:26
Speaker: What's the secret?
10:27
Speaker 2: You know what?
10:28
Speaker 2: It really is no secret to it.
10:30
Speaker 2: Um, you know, the process is actually a pretty simple process.
10:35
Speaker 2: Now, the challenge comes in in the work, and I say that the work is the challenge is because it kinda goes back to my last answer when I stated that the most difficult thing for a person to be is consistent.
10:49
Speaker 2: And so you have to be consistent with what you implement, and it doesn't mean that what you implement can't be adjusted or as you monitor it, but you still have to have a degree of consistency.
10:59
Speaker 2: So one of the first things I do, and I follow this as kind of a formula I follow, one of the first thing I do is I try to understand what's going on at this school.
11:07
Speaker 2: Where has this school been?
11:08
Speaker 2: Where has the district been?
11:10
Speaker 2: You know, let's, let's, let's do a little listening.
11:12
Speaker 2: Let's engage with some of the stakeholders.
11:14
Speaker 2: Let's engage with some of the key members of the faculty, the staff, the students, um, the district staff, um, those that have the context and the history, historical knowledge to know where this school has been and where you would like to see it go.
11:29
Speaker 2: When I took Middle- uh, uh, Middletown, one of the things I spent time with the superintendent and her cabinet about, tell me what you really wanna see from this school, and they were very clear about what they wanted to see.
11:40
Speaker 2: And so from there, I can then design a plan of action or a course of action.
11:44
Speaker 2: So after listening, the second thing I like to do is just establish a clear vision.
11:49
Speaker 2: What is our North Star?
11:51
Speaker 2: What exactly are we trying to accomplish?
11:54
Speaker 2: Wha- what are gonna be our left and right lateral limits?
11:57
Speaker 2: The areas that we do not go into these territories because that's not part of our process right now.
12:02
Speaker 2: Um, it doesn't mean that it's not necessary work that we need to engage in at some point, but right now, that's not where our focus is.
12:09
Speaker 2: So once we get that focus, then we start attacking instruction, you know, the, the relentless focus on instruction.
12:17
Speaker 2: You know, people like to make schools to be out about a lot of things, but at the end of the day, it is about the teaching and learning that goes on in that building.
12:25
Speaker 2: It is about kids and their opportunity for an amazing life based on what we provide for them in exceptional learning opportunities.
12:34
Speaker 2: So we put a relentless focus on instruction, while at the same time building those key relationships with faculty members, staff members, um, and trying to just figure out who I'm laboring with while we labor together.
12:48
Speaker 2: Because people think that a lot of times you have to fix the culture first.
12:52
Speaker 2: I'm a firm believer that you can do both at the same time.
12:55
Speaker 2: You can impact culture while also impact instruction.
12:59
Speaker 2: Because if you take a year just working on culture, that's another year that kids are left not getting the highest quality of instruction, and that's one of those things that we just don't have time to waste.
13:10
Speaker 2: And so after that, we measure everything.
13:14
Speaker 2: We measure attendance, we measure discipline, we measure, um, chronic absenteeism, we measure achievement, we measure graduation rates.
13:25
Speaker 2: We put our f- eyes on all of the student groups, all of the metrics, all of the data.
13:32
Speaker 2: No data is, uh, left untouched as it relates to transforming a school, especially one that may be in school turnaround or one that's in school improvement.
13:43
Speaker 2: You have to follow the numbers People lie, numbers don't.
13:49
Speaker 2: I like it how, uh, Deming's put it.
13:51
Speaker 2: He said,"In God we trust.
13:54
Speaker 2: Everyone else needs data." And so I just firmly believe that you have to follow the numbers and, um, but you do it respectfully.
14:04
Speaker 2: You know, you don't put the numbers in people's face to, to condemn them.
14:08
Speaker 2: You do it to motivate them.
14:10
Speaker 2: You say,"Hey, listen, this is where we are, and this is where we can go." And so follow the numbers.
14:16
Speaker 2: We do a lot of celebrating.
14:18
Speaker 2: We celebrate growth.
14:19
Speaker 2: We celebrate progress.
14:21
Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, we try to build those relationships with people so that they know they matter, that they're not just people doing, but they're actually people that are involved and invested in the process.
14:35
Speaker 2: And then we make adjustments as we need to.
14:39
Speaker 2: We continually observe instruction at a high level.
14:43
Speaker 2: We're in classrooms often.
14:46
Speaker 2: Presence matters.
14:48
Speaker 2: You cannot change, transform a school or a district unless you are watching the teaching and learning.
14:55
Speaker 2: And I, I, I know that that's a struggle for people to have someone always in your room, but it's necessary.
15:04
Speaker 2: And it's-- at the end of the day, I try to get people to understand it's not personal.
15:08
Speaker 2: It really is the work of transforming schools.
15:12
Speaker 2: Presence matters, and also providing really quality feedback matters.
15:18
Speaker 2: The coaching and mentoring piece, the continual loop of providing feedback to teachers and staff, principals, whoever the case may be, superintendents, central office people, it's very important because if they don't get feedback, they don't know where to improve.
15:33
Speaker 2: And feedback should not be painful.
15:36
Speaker 2: But of course, it depends on how you deliver it and the spirit you deliver it in.
15:41
Speaker 2: For me, excellence is above all.
15:43
Speaker 2: I believe in doing everything with excellence.
15:46
Speaker 2: If, if I'm gonna say good morning to you, I'm gonna do it with excellence because that's what matters.
15:51
Speaker 2: Now, again We have to kinda move out of this subjectivity when accountability is introduced.
16:00
Speaker 2: I hold very high expectations for my staff, very high expectations for my students, and I also hold high expectations for my team, the administrators.
16:11
Speaker 2: I hold high expectations for central office.
16:14
Speaker 2: If we're going to engage, we're going to do it excellently and respectfully.
16:19
Speaker 2: And again, that's just about being clear.
16:21
Speaker 2: Clarity, again.
16:22
Speaker 2: It's just one of those things that if you're gonna transform a school or a district, you have to have those elements.
16:27
Speaker 2: And the more consistent you are with your messaging, the more people know what to expect from you.
16:33
Speaker 2: Then there are s- then there are no surprises.
16:35
Speaker 2: So, and we, we, we have a good time though with it as well.
16:39
Speaker 2: I don't want you to think it's just this arduous lift.
16:41
Speaker 2: It's a good time, especially when you see kids starting to learn, and you see teachers experience success, and you see families say,"I didn't know he or she could do it," and look at them.
16:52
Speaker 2: And then at the end of the day, you get to see them all with at graduation I mean, again, goes back to the last question.
16:59
Speaker 2: High school principal's best work and how we transform schools is we keep that North Star in mind in everything we do, kids being successful.
17:09
Speaker: You know, turnaround work is difficult, and you actually just described your process that you work through.
17:15
Speaker: That takes time, effort, energy, thinking, reflection, all of those things.
17:21
Speaker: How do you make sure that you stay enthusiastic about the work and that you stay, in reality, rested up-
17:28
Speaker 2: Yeah
17:28
Speaker: to be able to do the work?
17:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
17:30
Speaker 2: You know, my faith is my foundation.
17:33
Speaker 2: My faith in God, my faith in family, my faith in kids, my faith in community, my faith in teachers, my faith in the process, my faith is my foundation.
17:45
Speaker 2: I believe.
17:47
Speaker 2: I believe it can be done.
17:49
Speaker 2: I don't care what the circumstances are.
17:51
Speaker 2: We can change this place.
17:54
Speaker 2: I don't care w- how bad it is.
17:57
Speaker 2: Um, I, and I have been in some tough spots, and just that unrelenting faith that we can do this.
18:06
Speaker 2: Um, I'm, I'm also I, I truly believe in a, uh, a I don't know, I don't know if it's a work-life balance, but I definitely believe in separating work from home.
18:17
Speaker 2: When I go home, work shuts off.
18:19
Speaker 2: When I'm at work, I try to make sure that home is, you know, put to the side as far as much possible, unless there's an emergency.
18:27
Speaker 2: I just believe you grow where your feet are planted.
18:30
Speaker 2: If I'm immersed in the work at work, then my s- my school will grow.
18:35
Speaker 2: And then when I'm at home with my son, then he will grow.
18:38
Speaker 2: And we, uh, we get into the Middletown streets, and we exercise together, and we, we go out to dinner together.
18:47
Speaker 2: Um, we, we spend time talking about our days.
18:51
Speaker 2: Um, it's, it's truly, like, the most rewarding opportunity to be a principal And be a, a father to so many kids, and then come home and be a father to your kid.
19:04
Speaker 2: And I do not let what goes on in the day interfere with our time together, and I truly believe that if people would just keep that in focus, they would c- remember their why for what they're doing, then this work becomes...
19:18
Speaker 2: It, it's the most, the most rewarding, fulfilling work.
19:22
Speaker 2: Um, so yeah, my faith, my faith is just...
19:26
Speaker 2: Like I say, I have the belief in the least.
19:29
Speaker 2: I do.
19:30
Speaker 2: If, if you're here, we're gonna educate you.
19:32
Speaker 2: And if you're here and, you know, you may not be the most effective teacher yet, but if you submit and commit to the process, and you actually allow the process to work, I believe in you, too.
19:43
Speaker 2: And so it's just one of those things that, you know, I think is...
19:47
Speaker 2: I, I love this question because it kinda hits at the core of who I am, that a lot of times people don't get to necessarily get this up close and personal to.
19:56
Speaker 2: Um, you know, they see the principal, they see this figure, you know?
20:01
Speaker 2: And I get it.
20:02
Speaker 2: I understand, you know.
20:04
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, we're all still people, and we all still have the things that motivate us and drive us, and my faith is very personal to me, and it's something that I'm not ashamed of, and it's something that I speak about often.
20:19
Speaker 2: You and I have had these faith-filled conversations, and I appreciate the opportunity to have people that actually get it, to understand that faith is a driver, it's a motivator, and it's what keeps us in this work when it's difficult.
20:34
Speaker 2: 'Cause it can...
20:34
Speaker 2: It is difficult work.
20:35
Speaker 2: It's hard.
20:37
Speaker 2: But it's definitely possible.
20:38
Speaker 2: All things are possible to them who believe.
20:42
Speaker: Thank you so much for sharing that.
20:44
Speaker: There's so much more we need to discuss, and our conversation with Dr.
20:47
Speaker: Hill is far from over.
20:49
Speaker: In our next episode, we'll dive deeper into the incredible results taking shape at Middletown High School, explore the strategies driving their success, and hear Dr.
20:58
Speaker: Hill's vision for what's next.
21:00
Speaker: Be sure to join us for part two as we continue this inspiring conversation and uncover even more practical insights for education leaders working to create meaningful change in their own schools and districts.
21:13
Speaker: We look forward to having you with us.
21:15
Speaker: I'm Dr.
21:16
Speaker: Elizabeth Lolli, and it's been a pleasure to have you with us.
21:19
Speaker: If you found today's conversation valuable, be sure to subscribe and share with your colleagues.
21:25
Speaker: For more information about leadership tools and professional learning resources, visit ohioleadership.org.
21:32
Speaker: Until next time, keep leading with purpose