Latest / The Green Runners Storytime / Laura Briggs: The Original Way

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Laura Briggs: The Original Way · The Green Runners Storytime

0:00
We love the trails, but we know our footprints leave a mark.
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How do we protect the wild places we run in without losing
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our minds or our hobby? I'm Laura Briggs and this is
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story time with the Green Runners.
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Whether you're mid run or mid recovery, join me as I talk to
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the Trail Blazers and everyday heroes taking imperfect actions
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for a healthier planet. This isn't just about being a
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perfect environmentalist, it's about moving in the right
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direction. Let's get into today's story.
0:35
Hello Namaste and welcome back to the Green Runner Story time.
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You must be noticing a different voice and a face today than
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usual. I'm Jeev, your host today and
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I'm one of the Co founders of the Green Runners.
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Today's episode is bit special in many sense.
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We are talking about pilgrimage, about courage, about climate
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obviously, and about what happens when you decide to run
1:08
your way through all these three things.
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My my guest today is is Laura Briggs.
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Yes, the host of the TGR port for the last few episodes is
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back as a guest, so the tables are turned in the green runners.
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Laura helps as a partnership and communications manager, but she
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also does so many other things. She is an incredible runner and
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has plenty of amazing ultra running achievements, be it
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running 300 mile long Macmillan Way solo or Dragon's Back
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Hatchlings race in Wales and recently doing solo Camino
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Primitivo in Spain in a deliberately low carbon values
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LED way. So we are going to explore who
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Laura is before running these long miles and why the Camino
2:13
idea cemented in her mind. So if you're a runner, a Pilgrim
2:18
at heart, climate conscious or anxious wherever you lie in that
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spectrum, or just curious about how ordinary people do
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extraordinary things and sometimes imperfect but always
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honest ways, you are in exactly the right place.
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Laura, our all round awesome TGR member, welcome to the podcast.
2:46
It's so good to have you here. Steve, that was the nicest
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introduction I think I've ever had in my life.
2:52
Thank you. And what an honor it is to be
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interviewed by you and on the on the receiving end of the
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questions for change. Well, honor is mine.
3:00
Umm, I have to say one thing as someone who, you know, sometimes
3:05
struggle to organize, uh, you know, Saturday long run or
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Sunday long run, the idea of, you know, calmingly,
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meticulously organizing a low carbon multi day Camino.
3:21
I mean, it feels mildly intimidating to me, to be
3:23
honest. I think the key is not to
3:27
overthink it. Actually, I'm It might be a good
3:32
trait or it may be a bad trait in some respects, but I'm one
3:35
for saying yes to things. And then once I've said yes, I
3:39
worry about the rest later. And that's kind of what happened
3:43
with this a little bit I think. And I just couldn't not do it.
3:46
Yeah, yeah. And that's that's, that's really
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great. But I mean, before we dive into
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Camino sort of things and all those crazy miles you ran, I
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would actually love to start with you as a human being, you
4:03
know, So when you look at your life today, the running, the
4:07
work family side of things, obviously the green runner's
4:12
responsibility, you know, on all that lot, how would you describe
4:18
who you are in this season? That's a big question and I
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don't know that I've got one word that would explain who I
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am. I suppose multifaceted like all
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of us, because we all play different roles in different
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scenarios. I'm a mum, I'm a wife, I'm an
4:45
employee, a colleague and I'm a runner and all those things
4:51
don't always happen at the same time.
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So I have to take each of those responsibilities in a different
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way. You know, first and foremost, I
5:01
have to say, I think that the kind of mum, wife, family comes
5:06
first for me, always has done the running is more for me.
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So the running comes, you know, with that freedom and brings
5:20
maybe a sense of me doing a better job with the mum life and
5:27
the family life because it it means that I can go and clear my
5:30
heads and come back and do that job better.
5:34
So yeah, there's lots of there's lots of things that make up
5:38
Laura Briggs. I'm not sure you can pinpoint
5:42
one particular thing. I love, I love life.
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I'm very, I'm very kind of full of joy.
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I like to think I love. I do things that I enjoy and I
5:54
do things that make me happy. And I hope that doesn't come
5:58
across as a selfish thing because I have spoken to people
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before who said, oh, you know, you do these massive challenges,
6:05
you take days off away from your family.
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Isn't that a bit selfish? And actually, I, I say to the
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contrary, I think that it's really good for a wholesome
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family life. My children appreciate what I do
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and it's something for them to aspire to or look up to.
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I'm a happier, better person for it.
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So you know, it, it kind of complements each other, I think.
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And yeah, my core, I want to do better for our planet and for my
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kids and leave the world a better place than when I came
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into it. I suppose that's such a, you
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know, idealistic view, but it's something I really, I really
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work hard to to try and achieve in some way, I suppose.
6:56
Yeah, that's wonderful. I think that selfish aspect
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which you touched on, it resonated with me as well.
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One of my coaches, he did mention once, be selfish to be
7:10
selfless, you know, so when you put the oxygen mask on yourself,
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then you can really help the people around you.
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And as you said, like, you know, you're a better person to be
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around. You can do your responsibilities
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better if you have taken that oxygen, you know, first thing
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for yourself. And yeah, I mean, life is full
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of sacrifices and compromises we make.
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But at some point, you know, you have to you have to take care of
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your your own needs, if especially it gives you like a
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bit of a space. But I mean, one question which I
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would ask probably is over the years, you know, Laura, as a
7:54
core, as a person, right? Do you think the running side or
7:59
the climate responsibility side of the things have grown inside
8:05
you with time? Absolutely, 100%, yeah.
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When I started running, I was in my 20s and I was very much a
8:12
club runner, probably ran once or twice a week.
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I was a journalist. I didn't write about the
8:19
climate. I didn't really have much
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knowledge about the climate. I don't think really it was that
8:25
talked about at that time. My husband ran, he's always been
8:30
a very keen runner and I think I got more into the running side
8:34
of him things through him. And the running obviously
8:39
brought about that being in nature a lot more.
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So a lot trail running moved from kind of that road running
8:44
club running to more trail running, just getting outdoors,
8:47
being outdoors. And I'm realizing that that had
8:51
a really positive effect on on my brain and my body and just
8:55
feeling great about life. But of course, when you're in
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nature, you then notice nature and then you start to notice the
9:01
things around you that maybe a changing the climate, you know,
9:08
the way the ground is all cracked in the summer and the
9:11
way it rains way more now. And you know, there's little
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things that perhaps you weren't noticing before.
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So through my job, like through journalism, that kind of
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progressed a little bit into I went, went freelance and I
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started writing for publications like the Ecologist and I did
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some work with Lush who were very, you know, keen on
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sustainability and ecology and community.
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And it just kind of brought about an awareness of what was
9:44
going on with the climate for me and kind of piqued my interest.
9:48
And then when I, when I get my teeth into something and I want
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to explore a bit more than I really, I'll go for it.
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And so from there I kind of changed a lot about myself as
9:59
well. I, I became plant based about 10
10:02
years ago now, which was a really big change for me.
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And then I started advocating for, you know, vegan eating and,
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and that went hand in hand with the environment.
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And then of course I got involved with the green runners.
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So yes, in terms of me growing as a runner and you know, with,
10:23
with the work I do for the environment, yes, hugely.
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I'm a completely different person now to to when I started
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out. I think in, in, in that answer,
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one thing which makes me curious is, and I think I was when I was
10:43
researching for this podcast, I came across a lovely line in
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that roar piece you wrote, you know, about the, the moment you,
10:55
you stopped trying to fit running in and I think an
11:00
instead made it part of your lifestyle.
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So something like that. So I think curiosity in me is
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like, can you describe that turning point?
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You know, if it changed your mindset or your day-to-day and
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then suddenly you know, you are a proper runner as an identity
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and you are getting into like more miles and and things like
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that. That is the turning point.
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There's been a couple of moments.
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I, I once interviewed a runner and I remember we were talking
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about, you know, when you say to your, your family or your
11:39
friends, I've got to go out for a run today.
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And he said to me, you need to flip that on your head, on its
11:45
head, you, you don't have to go out for a run.
11:48
You want to go out for a run and you can go out for a run.
11:53
And I said, Oh my God, that's like such a tiny little change
11:56
in mindset. But from saying, oh, I've got to
11:59
go out for a run to, oh, I can go out for a run now.
12:02
It just makes it so different and I feel hugely privileged to
12:08
be able to run and if I want to run I've got to make that happen
12:12
within my day and fit in with my responsibilities.
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So if I would like to go for a run, I'm going to get up before
12:22
the school run or I'm going to run in the dark in the evening,
12:25
because that's the time I have to be able to do it.
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And suddenly it's not quite the chore.
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It's actually your time, it's your enjoyment.
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And if you want to have that enjoyment, you have to make it
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work, you know, within your life.
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So I think that was a, that, that to me was quite, you know,
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really resonated. But before that it, it just when
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I was training for like the longer runs, when I, I got
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really into these kind of challenges.
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And I, as you mentioned, ran the McMillan way over 6 six and a
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bit bit days to raise money for Macmillan, Macmillan Cancer
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Research. You know, I had to, I had to get
13:05
the training and there was no, there was no option.
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So I just, I just got into a rhythm and it would be a rhythm
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of getting up at 5:00 every morning and running and then
13:15
going about my day. And it almost just then it just
13:19
became part of what I do. And it wasn't like, oh, I've got
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to go out for a run, right? I'm going for my run.
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And then the day follows and I actually feel way better.
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Once you've done a run in the morning, you've got it out the
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way, you know, that you've got the rest of the day.
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And if somebody else is then going have having to go for
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their run in the afternoon, yeah, well, I'm already done.
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So I feel very smug. So yeah, it shifted in the way I
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think about running that it's, it's not something I have to do.
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It's something I want to do. And I'm very privileged to be
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able to do it. Yeah, I think something clicks
13:57
inside us right. Then we are like, oh, I have a
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run to do today in my plan versus I have to go for my run
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today or my run is intervals or I have to do my tempo.
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And you know when that switch happens, that's when you
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realise, yes, there is a genetic formation has happened inside
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you, I believe. Absolutely, yeah, yeah.
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And it's for me. It's not competitive either.
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I've, I've never been a a competitive runner.
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I run for me. In fact, I, I very rarely will
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answer. If there's a tight cut off in a
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race, I I won't be answering it. I'm not fast.
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I I get out because I enjoy it. And so that's my philosophy.
14:49
It's about me having my time and this is just the way I choose to
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do my running. And I know everybody is
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different. Yeah, and I think people who do
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these like long adventure or journey races kind of adventure
15:08
or they create their adventures, you know, they that breed of
15:14
runners is, is very different. You know, they are looking much
15:17
more deeper meanings, you know, from from their runners.
15:22
So I, I totally get it. But has this multi day staged
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kind of, you know, long adventures?
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Has that been your your thing like since the start?
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Or you got into it somehow or something clicked and then you
15:36
started liking these things? Not at all, no.
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I I used to work with a running brand make him made running.
15:44
Close. And the founder of that brand
15:48
just loved ultra running. And I'd never run an ultra in my
15:51
life. I was, you know, 10K Max, happy
15:54
days ticking over. And she said to me one day, why
15:59
don't you do an Ultra? And it was like really an ultra.
16:02
Like, do you know how far that is?
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And do you know how slow I am? Never going to happen.
16:07
But of course, she was one, one of these really just lovely,
16:12
supportive, convincing people. And so it was like, well, if, if
16:16
she's doing it then yeah, why not give it a go?
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And I did my first ultra and it was, we're talking years ago
16:23
now, and it was a 50K race in Salisbury.
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And it was so I was so slow. I was so slow.
16:31
And I went through all the feelings, all that, you know,
16:34
like, my leg is falling off, I'm dying, all of the things.
16:39
And yet somehow I finished it. And I was like, oh, I quite
16:43
enjoyed that. So somewhere my brain is a bit
16:46
messed up because there were points in that run where I just
16:50
thought never, ever, ever again. And then as soon as I'd
16:52
finished, I was like, right, sign me up for the next one.
16:55
And it became more about the challenge, I suppose.
17:00
For me, it was like, wow, I've done 50K, That's amazing, right?
17:04
What's next? And it was about just pushing my
17:07
own boundaries. And from that there were, you
17:12
know, there were other races. And then I thought about how I
17:15
love to run without being constrained with time.
17:18
I just kind of like that space to myself.
17:21
I don't like to be under the pressure, so to speak.
17:25
And I remember during lockdown, I was, it was suggested to me
17:32
that there was a challenge you could do called an accumulator,
17:36
which is where you've probably heard of this too, where on like
17:39
day one of the month, you run one mile, day 2.
17:42
Of the month you run. 2 miles, Day three.
17:44
Those were the things which were quite popular.
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Back then they all kind of, yes, they just really got quite,
17:48
quite big, didn't they? So I chose March to do my
17:53
accumulator and I did a 500 mile month and it was for no, it was
17:58
for no reason other than to challenge myself.
18:01
It wasn't raising money for anybody.
18:03
And then following that came the Macmillan way.
18:08
And that that kind of was born from a dear friend of mine who
18:13
had terminal cancer. And she said, Laura, you do
18:16
amazing running challenges. If you ever want to raise money,
18:20
raise money for Macmillan. They're amazing.
18:22
They've looked after me so well. So I ran that for MO and I
18:27
raised just shy of 9000 lbs and it was just honestly the, the
18:33
best thing I'd done. You know, it was for her, it was
18:36
for a great 'cause I did it by myself.
18:41
So it taught me a lot about those kind of multi day events.
18:46
And then yeah, I kind of finished that and thought,
18:50
Blimey, I'm not sure I'm ever going to run again.
18:52
Absolutely broken. And then I did the hatchling,
18:58
the Dragons, but I hope to do the full Dragons back.
19:00
But sadly I got timed out on day one, which is why I don't do
19:05
timed races because I'm too slow.
19:08
And I met a great bunch of people.
19:10
And yeah, that's where the idea actually came from, running the
19:15
Camino, because a couple of the chaps I met on the Dragon's Back
19:19
race were going to do it with me.
19:21
We were going to do it last year, but one of them really
19:25
hurt their foot. So I instead decided I'd run
19:29
across the two Moors over three days with a full pack and a tent
19:33
and a bivvy, and it was so heavy.
19:36
I carried about 11 or 12 kilograms on my back, which was
19:41
too much, absolutely too much. But again, taught me so much for
19:46
running the Camino. And yeah, the people I was going
19:50
to go with, one by one got injured and then I had to make
19:54
the call. Do I do it alone or do I quit
19:59
and I just? So, so, so let me interrupt you
20:02
here. I mean, so is this the moment
20:04
where? You know, the Camino seed was
20:08
sort of like planted in your mind because Camino primitive
20:13
isn't just like a average, you know, weekend ultra.
20:17
You know, it's it's very old pilgrimed route.
20:20
It has some spiritual connotation, connotations to it.
20:25
A lot of like historical weight is there on this route.
20:30
And then I think in your story you chose to run this
20:34
intentionally in a very low carbon, self supported way.
20:39
So was this the moment when the seed came?
20:42
Or there's a different story to do that the seed was way before?
20:47
Well, the seed wasn't my idea, if I'm honest.
20:50
You know, the seed came from Jay, who I met on the Dragon's
20:54
Back race and we became friends and he said I've done the Camino
21:00
Primitivo walking it my wife. And he said when I got to the
21:03
end, he saw a runner come past with a really light pack on and
21:10
he thought to himself, why didn't I run it?
21:13
But I could run this. And so he said if I ever decide
21:16
to run it, would you come with me?
21:20
And I said absolutely, 100%, count me in.
21:23
It sounds amazing. And so that's where the idea
21:27
came from because of my work with the green runners and what
21:32
I do, I kind of added that layer of, right, if we're going to do
21:36
it, let's make it meaningful. Why are we doing it?
21:40
And that's where the idea of, OK, let's do this, you know, not
21:45
like an average Pilgrim who will fly out there, who will buy all
21:49
the new kit, who elite in, you know, the larger restaurant,
21:53
stay in hotels. We're going to do it as low
21:57
carbon as we can. So I like to think that I
22:01
brought that idea to the table and yeah, there was a little
22:06
group of us that was going to run it together, and it ended up
22:10
just, as I said, just just being me.
22:12
Yeah. So what happened?
22:13
I mean, I'm very curious because I found it from, from social
22:18
media post. Was it your partner or some
22:21
friend who did it? And we, we, we, we saw that and
22:25
came as a surprise. So that's why we were rooting
22:27
you even more. So what happened there?
22:30
I mean if. You if you can share, of course.
22:32
So initially there was, there's three of us.
22:35
So there's myself, Jay Grady, who is actually the presenter of
22:38
the Trail and Error podcast, and Professor Ben Garrett.
22:42
And is this Jay, the same Jay who gave you the idea initially?
22:47
That's right. Well, you know what the world
22:49
needs more friends like Jay, I would say.
22:52
This is great for absolute brilliant friends and.
22:55
Thank you, Jay. The three of us were like the
22:59
core team and we, we were like, right, we're going to be called
23:02
eco pilgrims. We're going to do this low, low
23:05
carbon footprint, as I said, and we managed to then get another
23:12
person potentially on board to even do some filming as well
23:15
along the way. So it was quite a, you know,
23:17
decent operation with a lot of logistics involved.
23:21
And what happened was, as I said, we were going to go last
23:24
year and then Ben, Ben really damaged his foot to the extent
23:30
that it was like, OK, this is not, it's not going to happen.
23:32
And we didn't want to run without Ben either.
23:35
So we held off and we penciled it in for April to, you know,
23:41
this month. And then in the run up to that
23:46
chap that was going to do the filming for us, he got a foot in
23:49
injury. And then Ben and Jay was just
23:55
life events happened. I won't get into details, but
23:59
you know, things happen in life, don't they?
24:01
And it just makes it very difficult to stick to to a plan.
24:05
And as it drew closer and closer, Jay kind of said, hat
24:10
guys, this isn't going to happen.
24:11
I'm just not going to be able to make it, you know?
24:14
And it was fine. And then it was just me and Ben.
24:17
And then, yeah, at the at the 11th hour, Ben was kind of like,
24:21
I really don't want to let you down, Laura.
24:24
Absolutely hate to say this, but I just can't do it.
24:28
And I at that point was like, it doesn't matter.
24:32
I don't want anybody to feel bad about not coming with me, but
24:37
equally I have to do it now. Like I can't not do it.
24:40
Berries booked. I've been thinking about this
24:43
for two years, you know, and when when something takes up
24:47
your headspace for two years, you can't do it.
24:51
I was just like, I've just got to get it done because this
24:54
needs to now be out of the way. So I made the decision to do it
25:00
on my own. And yeah, there were a few
25:02
raised eyebrows, not from the team, but from, you know,
25:07
friends and family. I think from a safety
25:10
perspective, a lot of the time as a woman doing anything on
25:14
your own, and I'm not saying this doesn't happen to men as
25:16
well, but predominantly from my experience, if you're a woman
25:20
doing something on your own, somebody is going to raise an
25:23
eyebrow and say, Are you sure? Are you sure you should be doing
25:27
this? And my theory on this generally
25:32
is as long as you're really prepared and you know what
25:36
you're going into, you know the risks and you mitigate as best
25:39
as you can that, why shouldn't a woman do it on her own, much
25:44
like a man would do on his own? So off I went.
25:50
That's that's great. And I think it would be a big
25:54
inspiration for other fellow female runners to create their
25:59
own adventures. I think risk aspect is probably
26:05
driven by fear as an emotion right inside us.
26:09
And Alex Honour, he talks quite in detail about it.
26:14
If you are in control of the aspects, you know, which you
26:19
think are risky enough that that fear factor, it's sort of like
26:25
goes down a little bit and then and then you, you basically go
26:29
for it. But I mean, in your story, I
26:31
mean, one thing which I would like to probably ask you is
26:37
like, what were the hardest logic logistical knots you
26:43
untangled, you know, while while planning for this, because
26:48
logistically it's, it's quite a project in itself and and
26:52
especially when you're doing it alone, right.
26:55
Yes, you're right. And logistically it was almost
27:00
like the what you would imagine to be the simple things ended up
27:04
being the most complicated to untangle.
27:08
So for example, we'd booked the ferry under Jay's name, so he
27:13
was the lead traveller and just kind of getting the ticket
27:18
changed from four people to 1 to the different.
27:23
We actually, I actually changed the sailing date slightly as
27:25
well, but then I had to obviously rearrange who was the
27:29
lead name. They've got dates wrong on the,
27:32
on the booking. So it was, it was the kind of
27:34
the small little admin bits that needed sorting, which, which
27:40
were the most of a headache for me.
27:43
And then because I knew I was going on my own, I wanted to, to
27:48
pre book some accommodation because we'd initially said, oh,
27:53
well, we'll run, see where we get to and just stop off in a,
27:58
they're basically bunkhouses. They're called Albergas.
28:01
So we just stop where we found ourselves.
28:04
But I just wanted to have a bit more security.
28:07
So I, I would have to kind of, you know, book ahead some of the
28:11
albergas guessing a little bit where I would end up each day.
28:15
Initially, Jay was really keen to run this in five days.
28:22
Now I've told you I don't like being too restricted on time and
28:25
I also was really keen to show that this couldn't be enjoyable.
28:29
You know, this journey was meant to be enjoyable, to show that
28:32
other people can do it. In a similar vein, 5 days would
28:36
not have been fun, certainly not for me, and the mileage would
28:40
have been too high for what I wanted to achieve as well.
28:43
So I had to relook at the mileage and I pared it back a
28:48
little bit. So my day one was my highest
28:50
mileage. I did 38 miles on day one and
28:53
then I. Think Laura, for the audience,
28:55
if you can tell them like what's the total in Kamino primitive?
28:59
And I think there are various versions of it as well, like
29:01
some Kamino Francis and and others, right?
29:05
There are so many iterations of the Kamino route and you know,
29:11
you can start in Portugal, you can start in France.
29:14
They go all over. But this is the original route.
29:17
So it's 315 kilometers and I think the elevation is somewhere
29:22
around 10,000 meters. How nice it goes.
29:27
It starts in a place called Doviedo and it ends in Santiago
29:31
de Compostela. And it's, it's beautiful.
29:35
It goes through the Asturias mountain range and then you
29:39
Passover into Galicia. So you've got kind of that
29:43
contrast in, in landscape as well.
29:46
It's absolutely stunning. It's it's hailed as the most
29:50
technically challenging of the Pilgrim roots because of its
29:54
elevation. But it's very, you know, it's
29:58
very doable. It's not, I'm not going to say
30:00
it's hugely technically challenging to most of our
30:03
listeners here. They will be able to do it no
30:05
problem at all. It's, you know, beautiful
30:08
trails, very well signposted, very well marked, very well
30:12
trodden. So it's, it's really stunning
30:16
in, in that respect. So yes, so I, I wanted to have
30:21
my accommodation and bits and pieces booked, booked ahead of
30:24
time, as I said. So for me, the might, yeah, the,
30:27
the tweaking of the mileage, the, the booking of the ferries
30:30
and the accommodation, they were the kind of the, the, the things
30:34
that I suppose were the most irritating to have to sort out
30:38
everything else I could. It was all about me.
30:40
It was how out about how I performed, you know, where I
30:44
stopped to eat, where I, you know, choose to sleep or
30:48
whatever it is. It's, and when it becomes just
30:50
about you and your little bag of stuff, actually life is very
30:55
simple and kind of things are easy to sort out.
31:00
You know, I, I got my buses sorted as well.
31:03
Was the other thing to say that I, I just needed to know that I
31:05
had my bus ready to come back because it was a nine hour bus
31:09
journey back from Santiago to Santander, which is where I was
31:12
sailing out from. So I need, I just wanted to know
31:14
that that was in place. Once all those markers were
31:17
down, I knew where I had to aim each day.
31:21
Everything else just kind of fell into place really.
31:24
As long as my body held up then, then what could possibly go
31:28
wrong? Nice.
31:31
I think this puts us in a very good position as a host and also
31:38
listeners to sort of like, you know, look into your day by day
31:43
story of how the Camino went. I think as the day unfolded,
31:51
there were few which stood out in your updates on social media,
31:56
which we all were glued to, I can say.
32:00
And I think if I'm not wrong, day three sounded like your
32:03
favorite. Day 4 was with Winburn and Big
32:09
Mileage, and then there was a sense of finish on Day 6.
32:14
So could you walk us through a couple of those days that really
32:20
stayed with you and what made each of those days special or
32:28
challenging in that respect? Yeah, of course.
32:32
I mean, I suppose, you know, day one was always going to be the
32:38
scariest in terms of this is where we're doing this.
32:42
And I don't know, you may have seen my update on day one.
32:47
I set my watch to the navigation app and I leave the bunkhouse at
32:52
like 4:00 AM because somebody's snoring and they're just
32:54
absolutely doing my head in and I'm in the city.
32:57
I have no idea where I am. And I set and I'm, I'm speeding
33:01
off and I'm really, here we go running through the city 10,
33:05
about 10 minutes passes and I glanced down at my watch and I
33:08
noticed that the timer is just not moving.
33:11
Yeah. So it's telling me I'm going in
33:13
the right direction. But then I'm like, oh God, the
33:15
watch is basically just completely frozen on me.
33:17
So never had a technical issue ever with my watch and then it
33:22
decides to go wrong now. So fleeting moments of Oh my
33:26
gosh, you know, how could this possibly happen?
33:29
And then I figured out how to do the reboot at the watch and all
33:32
the rest of it. And I just thought, why have I
33:35
got it on navigation? Like there are there are little
33:38
shells that you can follow throughout the whole route, like
33:40
they go through the city and they're little bronze shells and
33:43
they kind of glint in the in the head torch light.
33:46
So I just turned it off. I set it to a run because
33:49
obviously I want to log my miles.
33:50
Doesn't everybody? And then I just, I just looked
33:53
down and I just followed the shells and I got into the rhythm
33:58
and it was, you know, it was out of the city, out of this glow,
34:01
this orange glow up into the into the mountains.
34:05
Start with the mountains and it's pitch black, you know, and
34:08
I'm like, Oh my God, I'm on my own in Spain.
34:13
I have no idea what I'm doing now.
34:15
What, what the hell was going through my head?
34:17
And then as the kind of the sun comes up and you just hear this
34:21
amazing cacophony of birds and crickets and cowbells and donkey
34:26
bells because everything's got a bell on it.
34:29
It was just so uplifting. And I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm
34:33
doing this. I'm actually doing this.
34:35
It was such an amazing feeling, like really freeing and
34:40
affirming. You know, I was like, I can do
34:42
it and I will do it. And then it just got more and
34:47
more beautiful the more I climbed.
34:49
And I think I got in my in my little notebook that it was, you
34:54
know, maybe 33 miles from my first day.
34:57
These were all very approximate kind of miles.
35:00
And honestly, I hit 33 miles and I was still going and I was
35:04
still going and I was climbing and climbing and climbing and it
35:06
just seemed like a never ending hill.
35:09
And I remember ringing the the alberge to say I'm going to be a
35:13
bit later than I thought. Can you hold some dinner for me?
35:16
Because they could they kind of cook for you as well.
35:18
It's a communal meal at the end of the day.
35:20
Nice. And I phoned ahead and as I was
35:22
on the phone walking up this just ridiculous hill, the guy
35:27
just appeared beside me like really out of it was really out
35:31
of the blue. And I was, I'm so sorry.
35:34
I haven't been on my phone all day.
35:36
I'm I'm going to hang up now and, you know, really apologized
35:39
because I hadn't been on the tech at all.
35:41
And then the one time someone appears, I'm on the phone and he
35:44
said, oh, my God, he's like, am I pleased to see you?
35:47
This hill is relentless. And I said, oh, where are you
35:50
staying? And he said, oh, I'm, I'm
35:52
staying at this place called El Teshu and I don't know if I'm
35:55
going to make it in time. He said that's literally who I
35:58
was on the phone too. So it turns out we're both
36:00
staying at the same place together and we had to walk
36:02
another 2-3 miles. And you know, I'd done the
36:07
running for the day. This was like a fast hike now,
36:10
but the time just absolutely speed past from that moment
36:13
because I suddenly had someone I could share the journey with and
36:17
that was that was just such a highlight for the first day.
36:21
To have someone to walk those those last few miles with was
36:24
was wonderful. From then it kind of just became
36:29
that get up, go, get up, go, you know, really early, bleary eyed,
36:35
couldn't eat a lot really because the food was unless I'd
36:41
expressed, you know, I'm a vegan and it was this communal meal.
36:44
So I had a look, had a Curry that first night, which was
36:46
delicious. But then I'd wake up for
36:48
breakfast. Everything would be shots.
36:50
So I kind of have to just grab a bread roll and that would be my
36:54
breakfast or if I was lucky, a banana or an orange.
36:58
And so I just got into the habit of, of just eating what I could
37:02
when I could. And day 2, again, just you know,
37:07
you've, you've just got beautiful scenery all the time.
37:10
The day is just, you know, I just filled with amazing views.
37:14
And then on today, I mean, day three for me was the absolute
37:20
pinnacle. It was, it was absolutely
37:23
stunning. And on the Camino Primitivo, you
37:26
have two options. You can go up to to a route
37:31
called Hospitalis or you can go down and the down route is the
37:36
longer route. And that is the one that I took
37:39
because it's, if you look at like the fastest known times and
37:42
things like that, that's the route that the runners take.
37:45
So I went that way and I stopped in a little place called Pollo
37:48
de Lande and in a hostel run by a Dutch chap.
37:53
And it was just a lovely place to stay.
37:57
And then, yeah, day three again, this massive time, it was about
38:01
800 meters of climb within about, you know, a mile.
38:05
It was, it was ridiculous. I just felt like.
38:07
The climbing difference is not there.
38:09
I mean, even doesn't depend whichever route you take, the
38:13
climbing is. Sort of, yeah, it was quite,
38:15
yeah. It's similar in terms of the the
38:17
climbing, but the hospitality. You've got the 360 Panorama
38:20
views and which would have been lovely, but that wasn't a goal
38:25
of mine for this particular trip.
38:26
So. Yeah, I, I went the other route
38:29
and then climbed up and then just such dramatic landscapes
38:36
and the weather was glorious. I mean, you might say it was too
38:40
hot because it was really hot, but it was just, it was just
38:45
kind of awe inspiring. And I remember seeing a lot more
38:48
people on that day. And I'm picking them off, you
38:51
know, 1 by 1 because I was like trotting past them and and that
38:55
was just amazing. And you go past this, this dam,
39:00
and you kind of look back over the dam and just remember
39:04
feeling so insignificant and so tiny in the landscape.
39:08
And I really love moments like that because you're like, oh, my
39:11
goodness. You know what?
39:13
We're just little dots on this planet.
39:15
We really are. And the moments like that just
39:19
really. Yeah, really uplift me.
39:22
And then kind of day 4-5, you just into the rhythm, totally
39:28
into the rhythm of it all. And then kind of day six, you
39:33
start meeting loads more people because that's where the Caminos
39:37
all converge. So you've got the Camino del
39:40
Norte and the Francis and they all come together in this one
39:46
little town called Meli Day. And then you're seeing other
39:50
people. And then you're also seeing
39:51
people who've been bussed in to do like the little walks and
39:55
then get back on the bus and go to wherever they're staying.
39:57
So meet all the big backpacks that you were seeing earlier on.
40:02
They're now turning into like little bum bags or carrier bags
40:05
for the. People like the.
40:06
Day trippers? Exactly.
40:08
Yeah, that exactly, yeah. And so I feel at that point just
40:12
like kind of smelly, sweaty, dirty, grubby hippie, because
40:19
you're seeing people now who have had showers and have, you
40:22
know, done their hair and they're wearing all the, all the
40:25
cool clothes. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm
40:27
feeling really self-conscious. I quite like just being
40:31
invisible in the landscape. That for me, and that was a real
40:36
switch actually, because those first kind of four, 4 1/2 days,
40:42
I felt really on my own, not, I don't want to say lonely,
40:47
because I actually I'm quite happy in my own head, but I felt
40:52
really alone. And it was lovely.
40:54
It was a total switch off. And then those last few days,
40:58
you see all the people again and you're back to kind of a bit
41:01
more of that hustle and bustle. And I missed the solitude from
41:04
that point, I really did. So yeah, it was it was a
41:11
transformational journey. And of course you then you,
41:14
you're moving out of the Astorius, which is very rugged,
41:19
very sharp mountainous landscape.
41:21
And then you move into Galicia, which is more kind of rolling
41:25
hills, kind of more think more kind of dart, more landscape and
41:31
a lot softer. So it's very different.
41:34
You're seeing different things in nature.
41:36
I remember looking up one night and it was pitch, sorry, it was
41:41
in the morning, it was pitch black.
41:43
And I looked up and I just saw all these shooting stars above
41:47
me and it was like, how often does that happen?
41:51
I'm just on the top of a mountain, like 7 shooting stars
41:56
before the sun's come up. It was just, I just felt so
41:59
privileged to be able to do it. It was, yeah, it was great.
42:05
Yeah, I can totally relate to it.
42:08
When I was doing my Bob Graham, the second leg was in the night,
42:14
so I picked my pacer somewhere around midnight and we were
42:21
running the Hellwillen range and there was a little bit of a clag
42:29
on the peak. But then it cleared very
42:30
quickly, and there was this big moon and sky was like totally
42:36
clear, so many stars. And it was me and my friend.
42:42
And there was like, Saluti of the mountains and the backdrop.
42:48
And I have a trail name. You know, in US, you have this
42:52
culture of having a trail name if you're doing something.
42:55
So I have a trail name called Dark Wolf.
42:59
Yeah. And, and.
43:01
And I was like literally howling with my friend.
43:06
And it was a moment where I felt like I became the trail, you
43:12
know, So I can totally relate what you're saying there, that
43:16
you just go numb. You, you are in nature, but you
43:20
become nature. And that is the ultimate feeling
43:25
which we have in our genetic memory over this thousand years
43:29
of evolutionary process. And that's why sometimes I think
43:32
we feel it's so great actually when we are in that kind of
43:36
surrounding, don't we? It's so natural that we've
43:41
forgotten that it's natural because we we are now so
43:45
surrounded by convenience and everything is so fast-paced and
43:49
we forget to to slow down and to appreciate that.
43:53
And when you finally can, you have those moments, it does
43:58
almost take your breath away. And it's like.
44:00
Oh. This is what it's like and it's
44:02
calming. Like it just you just feel like
44:05
all the stresses of day-to-day just completely melting away.
44:11
You know, we are we're all so busy now.
44:13
We have, you know, if, if you're working, if you have kids, if
44:18
you're just, you know, scrolling on your phone all the time,
44:22
you're being bombarded by something and we just, we forget
44:25
to switch off. And this is what, you know, this
44:29
pilgrimage brought me. It got me that opportunity to
44:33
completely unplug, unplug from modern life and to really
44:38
experience what it is like to be in nature.
44:42
And yeah, what what an amazing thing to be able to do.
44:46
And people say to me, you know, oh, you're so brave, You're so
44:51
brave doing that on your own. And I'm like, no, I'm really
44:54
just really lucky. I'm lucky that I have the
44:57
support network to be able to do this on my own.
45:00
It's not about brave. It's not about brave.
45:03
It's about, it's about being able to have the support to do
45:08
those things and to be in a position, you know, as I say,
45:11
privileged position to be able to do it.
45:14
Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I mean, I was literally able to,
45:18
you know, feel and I, I felt like being there and I was able
45:24
to imagine when you were explaining all those things.
45:27
The other thing I would say is like right at the start, you
45:29
know, when your watch failed, you know, in the book called The
45:35
Alchemist, I think the protagonist, one of the
45:40
characters say that you should surrender to the universe,
45:44
right? And you will get the signs on
45:47
your path. So in this case, you got the
45:50
sign from the universe on the trail right at the start, you
45:54
know, and then and yeah, at the beginning and then the later.
45:57
I mean, I come from a culture where we believe in all these
45:59
sort of things. But I mean, on that so far, what
46:05
you told us, apart from those things, were there one or two
46:12
moments, a view, a conversation, a dog, a coffee, you know that
46:20
that normally wouldn't show up on the GPS file, but it feels
46:25
like the IT was the heart of the of the trip for you.
46:29
Were there a couple of moments which you could share with us?
46:34
It's a lot about the people for me.
46:37
Like I know I said about that solitude and I had solitude for
46:41
hours and hours and hours in a day.
46:45
And there was one day when I was kind of going past a farm and I
46:51
think this old chap kind of like whistle, he caught my attention
46:55
anyway and I looked over and he kind of summoned me over and I
46:59
was like, OK, he was like El Peregrina Peregrina come on over
47:04
all in Spanish. And when you do the Camino, you
47:09
get what's called the Credencia lay.
47:11
So it's it's basically a passports and as you pass
47:15
through each town and village, you nip into a bar or you know,
47:20
someone's house and they will stamp it.
47:22
And it's proof that you've done the route basically.
47:26
So this chap in the middle of nowhere kind of calls me over
47:31
and said, you know, do you want to stamp in your book?
47:33
So I'm like, wow, that's amazing.
47:35
Yes. OK, so rummaging around and I
47:38
put the put the credential on the on the table and he he does
47:43
the stamps and then he just brings out this little bag of
47:46
walnuts and he was cracking walnuts for me.
47:50
And he, he kind of turned me round and he stuffs both of my
47:55
shorts pockets like I'm wearing, you know, those kind of tight
47:59
cycling shorts styles. And he like turns and he just
48:02
shoves these nuts in my pockets. And it was like he was the
48:07
kindest man. He was so delightful.
48:11
He was and I said, can I give you, you know, a donation?
48:15
And he said no, no, no, you know, what you're doing is, is
48:19
wonderful and kind of sent me on my way.
48:21
And I, I didn't have the heart to say, look, I'm really trying
48:25
to travel light, you know, 2 pockets full of all nuts is not
48:28
going to help me. I just kind of went off with all
48:32
these nuts trying to kind of balance bits in my hands and in
48:36
my pockets. And I ate a few obviously.
48:38
And then on the way, I'm just kind of shucking walnuts out as
48:42
I go along the trail. And that was so random.
48:47
And that guy, I wouldn't have known he was there from my GPS.
48:51
You know, that was just a moment that that will stick with me
48:55
because it was a lot about people's kindness.
48:59
And they're the things that I, I remember.
49:02
I remember Christian from day one, the chap up the hill, you
49:06
know, walking those few miles with me to the Albergae.
49:09
And I remember this old farmer giving me walnuts.
49:13
And I remember, you know, those kind things when when the
49:18
Spanish people really tried to understand my Spanish, which is
49:23
patchy at best, but really, you know, made the effort to to hear
49:28
what I was saying. And they're the bits that kind
49:31
of stick out because you really, it makes me think that's what
49:37
it's about. It's about being kind to people.
49:39
And that's how I would like to be.
49:41
So I'm going to bring that back and I'm going to be kind to
49:44
somebody for no reason necessarily, you know, just
49:47
because, because that's what that's what makes the world go
49:51
round. I absolutely agree with that.
49:55
I mean, I firmly believe that very word kindness, if that
50:00
becomes the very fundamental core value of the nature of all
50:05
the human beings in the world, the world will be such a
50:08
different place. I firmly believe in that.
50:11
And if you approach any situation with that value, you
50:16
know you you behave completely differently actually.
50:20
Yeah, it it almost became a mantra in the sense that people
50:26
may tell you that certain individuals in northern Spain
50:31
might not be that kind. They might have a certain
50:34
attitude to tourists. And if I was ever met with that,
50:38
my mantra is always kill it with kindness.
50:42
Just be kind like it doesn't matter that they're ignoring you
50:48
in the first instance or ridiculing your pronunciation of
50:52
Coca-Cola, which happened to me. It's like how many ways are
50:55
there of saying Coca-Cola? Apparently lots, you know, kill
50:59
it with kindness. Just smile, try your best, be
51:03
nice and eventually people come round and I've seen people be
51:08
really aggressive and then gradually just become super
51:13
nice. And then you're having a
51:14
conversation with them and that that for me, that's almost like
51:18
a win. That's, you know, that's a tick
51:20
in the box. I've turned them round.
51:23
That's interesting. Do you think that these are sort
51:27
of like weapons in disguise against the safety aspect of
51:33
being a female running solo, etcetera?
51:36
But you, if you approach with these feelings, what you just
51:40
explained, now you know, the elves actually become your
51:45
strength in other sense to to gauge different situations to to
51:51
act and different sort of, you know, points or situations
51:56
meeting with different people. What's your take on that?
51:59
Well, they say, don't they, that you should do something that
52:02
scares you every day. I don't know who said it
52:05
originally, but it's the thing. And I really believe that if you
52:12
act confidently, even if you don't feel it, it can act as a
52:19
kind of suit of armor in a way. So there were a lot of times
52:23
when I felt apprehensive, anxious, a bit nervous.
52:28
I didn't, you know, know the language.
52:30
I didn't know really where I was a lot of the time, but if I was
52:36
just confident and I needed to find something out, I would just
52:41
go for it. And yes, I think you're right.
52:43
I think that is a mechanism. That's a coping mechanism for
52:46
sure. And probably as a woman on my
52:50
own, that for me is a way of getting through and feeling safe
52:55
and showing a strength that might not really be there.
53:00
But if I can kind of appear confident and strong, that will
53:06
see me through. Yeah.
53:09
Yeah, and with that kind of smile which you have, Laura, I'm
53:12
pretty sure it it could melt anyone.
53:16
Stop it. But I mean, you, you, you spoke
53:20
quite at length on the cultural side of the thing.
53:23
So thanks for sharing that. But were there any cultural
53:28
curveballs, you know, that caught you by surprise, made you
53:34
rethink how you were moving through the place?
53:38
I think back in the days when I used to travel a lot, the siesta
53:43
culture in Europe is quite a thing, right?
53:46
Everything closes, you know, between certain time in the
53:51
afternoon. You can't even buy something.
53:54
And as a runner, when you are, you have to, you know, refuel,
53:59
you know, refurbish your supplies, you know, could become
54:01
a challenge sometimes. And then in certain places, I
54:06
think on Sundays, nothing opens up.
54:09
So did you face these sort of like, challenges?
54:11
And how did you adapt? You're so right.
54:13
Like these challenges were real. I told you about breakfast.
54:17
Breakfast was just a no hope, right?
54:20
So I'd, I'd planned for this because I wasn't sure what would
54:25
be open when, what wouldn't be open.
54:26
That's one of the things I couldn't really plan that well
54:29
for. And it was, it's low season.
54:31
It's just the season's just starting.
54:33
So a lot of albergues are still not even open.
54:36
And obviously I'm going through these little villages and towns
54:40
that are, they're tiny, right? They look a bit, you know,
54:44
medieval and feel they're beautiful.
54:46
But nothing's open. There's no people there.
54:49
Sometimes there's a couple of dogs you might see and they're
54:52
meant to be, this is meant to be the main town.
54:54
So finding things to eat, especially as a vegan was really
54:59
tough. So I before I set off, I made
55:04
sure I had some basically nutrition bars with me that I
55:10
took. I'll give them a mention they
55:12
call Real Meal. And no, I have no affiliation
55:15
with them. I just like them and the vegan,
55:18
but they're really calorific. So I was like, well, if the
55:21
worst comes to the worst and I can't find a meal, I can just
55:24
have one of these bars and know that I've got enough calories in
55:27
May. And actually I had to fall back
55:29
on those so many times. I took six with me and they're
55:34
really heavy. But it was worth it 100% because
55:39
no, couldn't rely. I really thought, oh, it'll be
55:43
fine. I'll just stop off at
55:44
supermarket and I'll get some gazpacho or I'll get some bread
55:47
or get some hummus and I'll be fine.
55:49
But of course, supermarkets are so few and far between in the
55:53
mountains, you don't just get a supermarket.
55:55
I hadn't really factored that in to be honest.
55:58
And so finding food was tough. I was very often hungry, but I
56:05
managed to carry with me or, you know, I kind of borrow and
56:09
steal, as I said to you, oranges, bananas and bits of
56:14
bread in the morning to take with me in my pack for for the
56:18
rest of the day. And that's what I'd essentially
56:20
survive on. So yeah, that was a curveball in
56:22
the sense that there there wasn't the food to buy when I
56:26
was on the trail that I thought there would be.
56:30
And I'm just glad I took the extras that I did.
56:35
Now that's interesting. So alongside the landscape and
56:42
the people, I think the external journey which you did in these
56:47
many miles that we are now aware of, you know, So thanks for
56:53
sharing all of that. But I believe there is also the
56:59
inner journey because these sort of adventures are, as I call
57:05
them, journey adventures, you know.
57:06
So you go through some external journey but also inner journey.
57:11
So who you are at the end compared with the person who
57:16
started is very different at times.
57:20
So when you think about the Laura who set out on the Camino
57:28
at the start and the Laura who arrived at the end, you know,
57:35
were there any differences? What feels different now, both
57:39
as a runner, but I think most importantly as a human, you
57:44
know, is there something which shifted drastically?
57:50
So it's that classic that everything changed and nothing
57:54
changed. You know, I ran, I ran a Camino.
57:57
I felt like this was the the biggest challenge in the world.
58:01
I came back and literally, you know, life had carried on.
58:05
Nothing had stopped. I got home, I had to go shopping
58:08
at, you know, take the kids to school, blah, blah, blah.
58:11
So it was like, gosh, this little microcosm of adventure
58:15
happened while everything else was just going on around me.
58:18
And, you know, did anyone even notice I was gone?
58:21
That kind of thing. But I think internally I, I just
58:29
come back and I feel like I can conquer the world, I suppose.
58:33
And that sounds so cliche, but when you do something like that
58:38
and you rely on yourself, you realize that actually you, if
58:45
you want to do it and you, you can manifest it, you can make
58:48
these things happen. I, I, I know we all get into
58:53
this trap and I strongly believe this, that social media is an
58:59
enemy in the sense that we get too much information.
59:03
Now, if you want to find something out right, you'll go
59:06
online and someone will tell you what they think you should do.
59:12
And then we get sucked into that.
59:14
Oh well, they've done it before, so they must know best.
59:17
So therefore I better listen to them and we stop listening to
59:19
ourselves. You know, there is just
59:22
information everywhere and opinion, people's opinions and
59:27
every opinion is valid, but it doesn't mean everybody's right
59:31
for what you're doing. But we get sucked in, don't we?
59:34
We're like, oh, so and so said this.
59:36
So I have to take polls with me because it's really hilly
59:40
because so and so said so and so and so did it.
59:42
I took polls with me. I didn't use polls once.
59:45
And it's remembering that I'm a runner.
59:49
I've practiced, I'm fit enough, I'm strong enough.
59:54
I know I can do this. I can get by with a little
59:56
Spanish. I know where I'm staying each
59:59
night. I know I can look after myself
1:00:01
and I can do it. And I did it.
1:00:03
And I now can come back and say we all need to trust our own
1:00:08
instincts a lot more. We need to believe what we
1:00:12
believe and not let all the other noise diminish our
1:00:17
confidence. And a lot of people will say to
1:00:20
me, I can't believe you did that.
1:00:21
And I said to you before people say you're brave, it's because
1:00:25
people don't believe in themselves enough.
1:00:27
And I just want to kind of shake people and say, you can do this.
1:00:30
Like you can do this. Please don't let all the other
1:00:35
noise stop you from thinking you can achieve what you want to
1:00:39
achieve. And I hope, if nothing else, my
1:00:41
children will look at me and think, mom, I want to do that.
1:00:45
And I know I can. That for me is is everything.
1:00:51
That's wonderful. Is there any specific aspect of
1:00:56
that which you now trust about yourself more than than before?
1:01:05
Any particular quality that OK, I can be X?
1:01:08
I'm 100% confident because I did Camino.
1:01:13
It's not so much a physical thing because I think we rely on
1:01:17
our physicality for a certain amount of years.
1:01:19
And then obviously we, you know, as we age as well, I feel that
1:01:23
now, you know, I'm not going to be able to do these things in
1:01:26
physic in the way I do physically now.
1:01:29
But mentally, yes, mentally I feel more resilient.
1:01:34
And again, it's that confidence. It's even if you don't quite
1:01:41
believe it, maybe just be confident and you'll start to
1:01:45
believe it. You know, that kind of almost
1:01:48
comes after and just throw yourself out there because it's
1:01:54
a bit like, you know what, what's the worst that can
1:01:56
happen? What's the worst that can
1:01:59
happen? That's that's wonderful.
1:02:01
But before like embarking on Kamino, sorry, I'm going a
1:02:05
little bit backwards, but as far as the physical aspect and the
1:02:11
mental aspect is concerned, did you do something special to
1:02:14
train on the physical and mental aspect like visualization or
1:02:19
something? Although planning provides you
1:02:21
ABC scenarios, you know which in in a project like this is a big
1:02:24
thing and gives you that cushion.
1:02:26
But anything from performance aspect which you would like to
1:02:30
share for our audience? Yeah, I mean, I can't not
1:02:34
mention Co founder Damien Hall because he wrote a training plan
1:02:40
for me. I was like, hey damo, I'm doing
1:02:43
this thing and I'm, you know, I'm a bit shonky when it comes
1:02:47
to my running fitness. I just need to be able to get
1:02:50
through this. And he wrote me a plan and it
1:02:52
was it was a plan that had rest days in it, which I'm a bit
1:02:57
like, oh, wow, I'm allowed to have rest.
1:02:59
That's mad. And I would write to him
1:03:01
occasionally and say, oh, God, you know, I'm feeling really
1:03:04
under the weather. Is it OK if I skip this run?
1:03:06
He'd go skip the run. You know, your rest is really,
1:03:08
really important. And his advice and his plan that
1:03:14
I followed 100% stood me in good stead to, to finish this and to
1:03:20
and to feel like just fit. I didn't, I didn't feel achy.
1:03:26
I didn't come home hobbling. I, I would start really early in
1:03:31
the morning, I'd finish probably about 3-4 in the afternoon.
1:03:34
I'd have time to recover and I'd feel good the next day.
1:03:36
So whatever he does, tells you to do, do it because he's
1:03:42
brilliant. So physically that that is what
1:03:46
worked for me and it worked around my lifestyle as well.
1:03:50
Mentally, I just think the planning you, like you said, the
1:03:56
writing it down where I'm going each day, you know, figuring out
1:04:01
what I needed to, to pack and, and realizing that, you know, my
1:04:07
life has basically shrunk into a tiny 5 kilogram bag.
1:04:11
You know, that that was my, my life visualization of this is me
1:04:15
now. This is how it's going to be.
1:04:18
Beyond that, there's not much. I think I could have done more.
1:04:23
I just, I just had to get out there.
1:04:25
I just had to be there and then I would face whatever happened
1:04:29
along the way. That's the way I deal with
1:04:31
things as they approach. By the way, there is a rumor
1:04:36
that Damo gives like ultra long tea drinking sort of like
1:04:43
sessions in the training plan. Is that true?
1:04:46
Definitely prescribes tea at any available opportunity.
1:04:53
No, he was, he was brilliant. Yeah.
1:04:56
I, I got loads of support from, from the green runners.
1:05:01
You know, I, I was really lucky. Yeah.
1:05:06
That's wonderful. So I think this brings us nicely
1:05:10
to the green runners side of the things because obviously it was
1:05:17
a personal quest, but it is bigger than that.
1:05:22
And I think it was sort of a lived experiment and a classic
1:05:29
case study for anyone who can understand the four pillars
1:05:35
which we talk about in the green runners, right?
1:05:37
So which is how you travel, how you feel, how you get and
1:05:42
activism or speak out. So maybe a question for you,
1:05:46
Laura, is when you look back at your own Camino, can you relate?
1:05:54
How did each of these pillars show up in practice for you?
1:06:01
Obviously, you talked about travel, but are there other
1:06:05
concrete choices you made in each of these areas which which
1:06:10
we can learn from and get inspired from?
1:06:13
Yes. So it's worth saying first and
1:06:15
foremost is that when this idea was a seed of an idea and we
1:06:20
were the eco pilgrims and there was, you know, plural.
1:06:24
We had looked at the root of the Camino and there's about 400,000
1:06:31
people every year travel across the Camino in the, in its
1:06:34
various forms. And most of them are
1:06:39
transatlantic flights. And you know, most people, most
1:06:43
people will be buying new kits to go on the Camino.
1:06:48
They'll be, you know, eating in restaurants, they'll be staying
1:06:52
in hotels. You know, this kind of normal,
1:06:56
what I would call tourism. OK, So that's a huge amount of
1:07:00
people and it's just grow, is growing exponentially, as is
1:07:04
adventure tourism. So, you know, people are
1:07:07
traveling all over the world now to do ultra runs as, you know,
1:07:09
an adventure. So it was about thinking, right,
1:07:12
this is just going up and up and up.
1:07:14
More people want to do these adventures.
1:07:17
If we keep going the way we are going, you know, we're just
1:07:20
going to keep, you know, destroying the planet.
1:07:23
We need to think about small changes, individual changes that
1:07:27
people can make to reduce their own carbon footprint.
1:07:31
And this isn't to say people shouldn't be flying from the
1:07:34
States to Spain because, you know, you don't want to get on a
1:07:37
boat. Sometimes it's impractical to do
1:07:40
things. But for for us at that point, it
1:07:43
was like, right, what can we do in the UK?
1:07:45
How can we do this journey but show that you can make
1:07:49
significant changes. So the travel, how we travel OK,
1:07:54
we would definitely no fly. So we went as foot passengers on
1:07:59
the ferry that that was that was the plan.
1:08:03
So yeah, foot passenger pack on the ferry and it was get a bus
1:08:07
and then it was run bus back ferry back how we kit up That
1:08:13
was always let's look at what we already own.
1:08:17
I do we have to buy new kit for this adventure?
1:08:20
And yes, is the answer. I did buy new kit.
1:08:24
I bought a new pack because the one I had before was just really
1:08:29
ill fitting and actually gave me shoulder cramps so I knew I
1:08:32
needed something that fitted me better.
1:08:34
So that was my kind of one big ticket item, as was my trail
1:08:38
shoes because I needed a pair of new trail shoes.
1:08:41
So everything else that I was wearing was had been mine for
1:08:49
years and years, was from vintage, had been repaired.
1:08:52
I had a jacket that was mandatory kit for the Dragon's
1:08:55
back race that I took with me to the mountains and everything I
1:08:59
had was essential. There was nothing in my packs
1:09:03
that I didn't need or wouldn't have needed in an emergency.
1:09:08
So it was really pared down how we fuel for me, you know, I'm
1:09:18
I'm a vegan and I'm not going to preach what people should eat,
1:09:23
but we all know that eating a plant based diet is much better
1:09:27
for the environment. So I wanted to continue that.
1:09:30
It was about eating as locally as I could and in, you know, as
1:09:38
I told you, I didn't really get that much food.
1:09:40
I'm going to be honest. I wouldn't.
1:09:41
I wouldn't say that was the best, the best.
1:09:43
Movie very heavy on cheese and and ham and it's.
1:09:46
Cheese and ham the whole way. Cheese and ham.
1:09:48
So it was, yeah, I ate very lightly.
1:09:52
And of course the how we speak out.
1:09:55
So in my life, I advocate, you know, I advocate for the animals
1:10:02
through veganism and I advocate for the environment through the
1:10:05
through the green runners. And this was an opportunity to
1:10:09
extend that. So doing things like this,
1:10:13
talking about how we can reduce our footprint, not everybody is
1:10:18
going to go out on a ferry, they're not going to eat a vegan
1:10:21
diet. But there are small things that
1:10:23
I did that other people can do and hopefully will also do.
1:10:27
Do I really need to buy a new pair of walking trousers or, you
1:10:32
know, running shorts for this trip?
1:10:34
Or can I repurpose the ones I've already got?
1:10:37
You know, do I need to buy drinks and plastic bottles along
1:10:41
the way? Because there are vending
1:10:43
machines the whole way where you can get your plastic bottles.
1:10:47
I didn't do that. I took refillable bottles.
1:10:50
It's those small things that I think the green runners really
1:10:54
want people to think about. It's about, it's about being
1:10:59
imperfect but trying to do a little bit better.
1:11:03
And that's all we ask. And we're humans, We're always
1:11:07
going to travel, we're always going to want to explore.
1:11:10
We're going to want to push the boundaries, but we have to start
1:11:13
pushing those boundaries in a way that is more sensitive to
1:11:16
the planet because we just cannot keep going on the way
1:11:19
we're going. So I didn't want it to be
1:11:22
preachy at all. Yes, it was a massively
1:11:27
personal, you know, journey for me and it and a huge achievement
1:11:32
that I'm very proud of. But it had a purpose, and it
1:11:36
will continue to have a purpose for as long as I can talk about
1:11:39
it in a way that, you know, recommends other people do
1:11:44
these, these adventures more sustainably.
1:11:48
Yeah, I think there's a phrase we use a lot in green runners,
1:11:55
imperfect but honest action. And I think here is a very good
1:12:00
example of that. And regarding imperfections side
1:12:05
of the things, see it depends what philosophy one sort of
1:12:11
subscribed to the if I'm not wrong, there's a word called
1:12:16
wabi sabi in Japanese culture, I guess, which talks about
1:12:21
celebrating imperfections. You know, so nothing is perfect
1:12:25
in the world. And if you do celebrate
1:12:29
imperfect but honest actions, it actually leads to a lot of
1:12:35
contentment in life. So I think this this is a, this
1:12:38
is a perfect example. But a subsequent question which
1:12:43
I would probably ask you is the constraints for someone who's a
1:12:49
new green runner, for example, right?
1:12:52
And they are thinking of doing something similar with what you
1:12:55
have done. The very first thought which
1:13:00
could come to their mind is there are few constraints,
1:13:04
right? Limiting flights, thinking
1:13:06
carefully about kid eating, plant based diet on the move,
1:13:11
etcetera, etcetera. So from your perspective, making
1:13:15
these choices, did it make your adventure richer or was it just
1:13:21
plain hard? You know, what's your take on
1:13:24
both? Or is it both?
1:13:25
Better both, but I'm not going to lie.
1:13:27
So I got I felt horribly seasick on the ferry.
1:13:30
It was the first thing to say. So you know, that wasn't the
1:13:34
joyful experience that I had hoped for.
1:13:38
That's not to say everybody will be, but over the Bay of Biscay
1:13:42
where it's particularly choppy, it can be, you know, pretty
1:13:45
grim. Also a nine hour bus journey,
1:13:47
you know, back from back from Santiago was, was not much fun,
1:13:52
but it gave me, it gave me options.
1:13:56
You know, it, it opened my eyes to different ways of doing
1:13:59
things and I'd rather not fly. So I, I feel better about the
1:14:06
journey because I didn't fly. But that's not to say I'm going
1:14:10
to, I'm going to tell somebody else that they, they shouldn't
1:14:13
fly. And also there's cost
1:14:14
implications. You know, the ferry is actually
1:14:16
way more expensive than a flight from the UK to Spain.
1:14:19
So you have to take that into account as well.
1:14:22
Not everybody is going to pay more money to go on a ferry.
1:14:26
Why? Why would you?
1:14:28
But it's, it's about if you can offset it, can you offset it?
1:14:33
Can you do something else that you maybe wouldn't have
1:14:35
otherwise done that can mitigate that a little bit?
1:14:38
It's, it's about asking people to think about it.
1:14:44
Too many people now just don't think about it.
1:14:46
It's hop on a flight, stay where you like, eat what you want,
1:14:52
wear what you want, buy what you want, you know, with no thought.
1:14:56
But if we all just thought a little bit harder about the way
1:14:59
we do things, that's going to make a massive difference.
1:15:02
It's about, you know, we're doing our Gear for Good campaign
1:15:07
with the green runners. And we want to say to people,
1:15:10
you know, if you're going to buy a piece of new kit, make it a
1:15:13
piece of kit that you are going to love and you're going to use
1:15:17
and you're going to use it to death because that is way more
1:15:21
sustainable than buying something that is going to last
1:15:26
you 2 minutes. You know, buy it.
1:15:29
Buy the thing that we're not saying don't buy new things, but
1:15:33
buy something that you love and that you'll wear.
1:15:36
So it's just a little bit of a mindset shift, and I think it's
1:15:41
really important to make that clear that we don't want to
1:15:44
vilify people that fly or eat meats or buy new things because
1:15:50
we all do these things in one way or another.
1:15:55
It's just about thinking more deeply about what we do and how
1:16:00
we do it. Yeah, that's that's, that's
1:16:04
brilliant. So I think as a closing
1:16:11
reflection, when you think about someone listening to this on
1:16:18
their commute or their long run recovery run, maybe feeling a
1:16:24
bit of climate anxiety and also running ambitions, you know,
1:16:30
what do you hope they shake from your Camino story?
1:16:35
What's the sense sentence or what's the feeling you would
1:16:39
like them to to carry away? Well, I think I have to end on a
1:16:45
very positive note because we have to remember that although,
1:16:51
you know, it can be very doom and gloom about the climate at
1:16:54
the moment, when you travel across somewhere like the Camino
1:17:00
and you see the breadth of nature and the vast landscapes
1:17:07
that we still have and that are pretty pristine actually.
1:17:12
You know, I said about waking up with all those birds and you
1:17:15
hear the the wildlife, the nature all around you.
1:17:19
You know, there's so much to be grateful for and there's so much
1:17:24
still that we can protect. So that's really positive.
1:17:28
And I want people to take that away.
1:17:31
And Sir, and to look at what's around them, to just take a look
1:17:35
and realize what we still have before it's too late.
1:17:40
You know, it's not too late now. We have a beautiful planet.
1:17:45
We can still do so much. And just that sense of
1:17:50
community, you know, the, the green runners in itself is, is a
1:17:53
community of people who all want to do and achieve the same thing
1:17:59
in respect of saving, you know, this earth.
1:18:03
And we're so lucky to have that and to just connect with each
1:18:06
other. You know, you don't have to do
1:18:09
everything. You don't have to be perfect.
1:18:11
Just do one small thing, reach out to another green runner, see
1:18:16
if you want to go for a run together.
1:18:18
You know, let's, let's just, let's just make that community
1:18:23
more strong and come away feeling like we've done our
1:18:28
best. Brilliant.
1:18:32
And for you personally, Laura, like looking ahead, does this
1:18:36
journey point you towards, you know, some projects or
1:18:43
something, not necessarily big, but anything next, some shinier
1:18:51
challenge? You know, that is 1 aspect, but
1:18:55
also does it leads you to words in terms of kind of runner, mum,
1:19:02
campaigner, human, you know, what do you want to be in next
1:19:07
few years? You know, like much more
1:19:09
holistic sense. For me, I really love the part
1:19:14
about the green runners, particularly where we can speak
1:19:17
out and I, I love talking about what we can do and how we can do
1:19:24
it. And I think if you've got the
1:19:25
experience to share with people, that's really valuable.
1:19:29
And I hope that people can take something away from my journey
1:19:35
like I have. So I would love to think that
1:19:39
people might want to read about it and talk about it.
1:19:43
And yeah, who knows, there might be another challenge in the
1:19:46
future, but it's not something that I've come back and
1:19:49
immediately thought about. It's something that we'll have
1:19:51
to percolate for a few, a few months at the very least.
1:19:55
But there's so much opportunity out there.
1:19:58
You know, maybe it's maybe it's for somebody else to, to do the
1:20:01
next green running challenge. And I can pass on the button.
1:20:06
But yeah, it's about it's, it's about talking about it and
1:20:10
keeping that story alive for me. Brilliant Laura, thank you for
1:20:17
taking us with you on this communal journey and for being
1:20:21
so honest about the messy side of things as well beautiful
1:20:28
reality of trying to live your values in motion.
1:20:33
Are there any aspects which we might have missed during our
1:20:36
conversation which you want to passionately talk about?
1:20:40
Gosh, it was a it was a hell of a journey.
1:20:44
And and you know, it was a pilgrimage in, in not just the
1:20:49
respects that that's a pilgrimage route, but it was
1:20:54
almost spiritual for me in a way that was not, not religious, but
1:21:00
spiritual in terms of really connecting with nature.
1:21:04
And I think the term pilgrimage now maybe means something a
1:21:09
little bit different than it than it used to, and that anyone
1:21:12
can go on a pilgrimage and it doesn't have to mean faith
1:21:17
necessarily. Yeah, yeah.
1:21:19
But it can, yeah, it can mean different things for different
1:21:23
people. And I would take it as an
1:21:26
individual journey. That's that's what I did.
1:21:31
I came out, I really, I really feel like I, I got a great sense
1:21:36
of myself from doing this journey and, and hopefully other
1:21:41
people would, you know, can do the same.
1:21:46
Amazing, how can people know more about you, can catch your
1:21:53
your thoughts etcetera. If you would like to share any
1:21:56
social handles or something. So I've actually I'm writing
1:22:01
about the the experience and a more blow by blow account over
1:22:04
on sub stack. So if you search eco pilgrims on
1:22:08
sub stack, you'll find me there. My Instagram account is vegan
1:22:13
fitness runner as well, if you want to check out Instagram.
1:22:17
But of course, also people need to join the Green Runners, which
1:22:21
is the biggest message here. So we must, we must direct
1:22:26
anybody there and to tell their friends to join because the
1:22:30
Green Runners is honestly the best community.
1:22:34
OK, cool. We will pop links in the show
1:22:37
notes to the green runners, your Instagram and and sub stack page
1:22:43
and also if there's any green Camino writing so that people
1:22:49
can dive deeper into your thought process and and this
1:22:54
journey. And to everyone listening may or
1:22:57
next run, however small hold even a tiny bit of this spirit
1:23:04
of pilgrimage and possibility. I think it would be great.
1:23:07
So thanks for joining us and we will see you next time.
1:23:11
Thank you, Laura. Thank you.