Latest / The Art of Adjusting® Podcast / Episode #81 - Category Five Conflicts

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Episode #81 - Category Five Conflicts · The Art of Adjusting® Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Bill Auten of Augin Claims Management.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Chantelle Roberts of CMR Consulting, and welcome to the Art of Adjusting Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to talk about life as an insurance adjuster from the perspective of property, auto, liability, or workers' compensation adjusters.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Our goal is to bring interesting topics in the world of claims adjusting to people who are working as an adjuster now and to people who are considering a career as a claims adjuster.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Heather, how are you?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I am great.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: We are going to have a kind of a short uh little session today because uh we're both busy.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's gonna be one of the themes that we're that we're gonna be talking about because I wanted to talk about uh while we're recording.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: No everybody knows that we record this before it gets released.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh while we're recording this, uh, you know, Melissa is getting ready or has hit Jamaica and uh done a lot of damage there.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna talk about, you know, cat claims and and how to handle them, but also how to how to take care of yourself.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna be practicing a little bit what we preach because we're also going to be taking this to be a little bit shorter of a a podcast.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it is gonna be unfortunate that this podcast will air after CPCU's Into Risk, because there is a big, I think an hour-long session on the ethics of handling cat claims.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's an an excellent topic, but I didn't want to steal all of their thunder, even though people won't hear about it and won't be able to go back unless they can time travel.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know if that's a thing yet?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's a thing yet.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really know, but speaking of time traveling and not to bring up really sad memories, but this is the 20th anniversary year of Hurricane Katrina striking New Orleans, and the CBCU crew is going to be in New Orleans for end to risk this year.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, you can definitely be tested during storms and catastrophic events.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously Melissa's gonna test a lot of people, but Katrina tested, I I can't count how many adjusters on all my fingers and toes, um, that it was it was a tough event for everyone that had to had to go through it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: And and so let's, you know, just a solemn reminder to all of us, these are always the storms are always out there, but taking care of yourself is really important.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so that kind of uh goes into our our little teaser of what we're gonna be talking about, our our five conflicts, because I I came up with the little thing of the category five, because that's what Melissa was, conflicts, and talk about the five conflicts that there is that an adjuster may experience in in claims handling.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, that is going to be uh preparedness, pressure, compassion, loyalty, and the aftermath of all of our fun jazz.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So uh without further ado, let's talk a little bit about preparedness.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, originally I was thinking so many people are not prepared, but there are lots of articles about how to become prepared, not just for our insureds, but even for our adjusters.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm always wanting the C-suite.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I always have that delusion of grandeur that some C-suite is going to be listening to it and go, oh my God, Chantelle is just brilliant, and we totally need to listen to what she's saying.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I wanted to talk about is how the ethics in our claims handling actually begins way before the storm gets here.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's nothing that the desk adjuster necessarily can do.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: However, maybe the agents can do something.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Agents have a lot of power, definitely the C-suites.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm talking about is everybody looking at their book of business in that particular area, let's say Louisiana slash Mississippi, if we think, you know, uh Katrina was gonna go up in that area, and realize that, oh my gosh, I have one million, you know, risks in this area.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I really need to staff up.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, you are not gonna be able to hire that many adjusters and have them trained before someone hits, but maybe you need to have a whole bunch of people come over from the Washington state office or whatever, someone and then staff up while you're training those people.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's not just our cat claims, but we also the thing, oh goody, the ironclaws here.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: See, the thing is uh is that I drink tea with milk and uh the ironclaw has learned, I I have actually created a monster.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: The ironclaw has learned that if he waits long enough, I will give him a little saucer of milk when I get finished with my tea.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So he he patiently awaits, um, and sometimes not so patiently awaits the uh saucer of milk.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Anywho, um, the other thing we need to be thinking about, or the C-suites need to be thinking about as I talk into dead air because nobody's listening to me.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, by the way, Squirrel, I I I asked for five new uh subscribers on on either YouTube or Spotify.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about Spotify, I I don't have that access, Bill has that access, but I did get two new subscribers on YouTube.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much, guys.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I can get another five.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Woohoo! So yay, thank you so much.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Please share, blah, blah, blah.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, squirrel.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, anyway, um, we were saying, look at your risks in that area.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Staff up, absolutely staff up.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and it's not just you know the cat adjusters uh that need to do that, but it's the the the normal, you know, desk adjusters that need to be staffed up.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the desk adjusters, don't get me wrong, they can't do anything.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have any power, unfortunately.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's gonna be management.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: But also what you need to do is if you know that you're going to be having like a lot of cats come through, I don't know, Louisiana and Mississippi, partner with a cat firm.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we did when I was a TPA.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I had a signed contract that said uh you would have a hundred cat adjusters ready for me out of the drop of a hat as soon as I called you.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that uh people can do as well.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: So and I think it's just really important to talk about like the necessity of training in that like slow-moving period prior to the event, because you're gonna get like an influx of thousands and thousands of calls, and your agents are gonna be overwhelmed.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, preparing everyone, not just senior level leadership being prepared and understanding the ground situation and then making those big decisions about do we partner with this firm, do we bring these folks in, but to get your people ready for what it's going, what it's gonna be like for them after one of those events.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And the you know, the ethical piece of this is that you want people on the phone that can be a lifeline to folks whenever an event like this happens.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And if they're not prepared to answer questions or if they're not prepared to understand the policy language and really and really gear up for that, then you're gonna be in that situation where it's gonna be ready, fire, aim all the time.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it doesn't work that way, and uh as we'll talk about later, you get into lawsuits.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing that I often see, of course, is so many insureds talking about preparedness, and this is more for the agents, and I know I have a couple of agents that listen, is that so many insureds are underinsured.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, this is a great time after Melissa went through, even though it didn't hit the US, but this is a great time to talk to your insureds, our clients, and everything, and say, okay, so let's do the math.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pretend even a category three, which has, I think, sustained wind damage of uh 100 miles per hour or something like that, rips off your roof and there's a lot of rain coming in.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, your house is probably gonna be a total loss, as well as all of your goods, your your clothing, you know, all uh bedding, all of this kind of stuff.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to buy all of this.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just look at your house and say 80% of what it takes of rebuild, and you're gonna be paying$54,000 out of pocket or whatever.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Are you I mean, do you have$54,000 in in your back pocket?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I sure don't.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that is going to be another way to help prepare our clients, the the insureds, and maybe sell some more insurance.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like, I think there's I think there's a really important responsibility that kind of everyone bears during this.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, insureds are always going to be most of the time underinformed about how their policy works, and that's an expectation.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: So agents walking into that conversation, armed with knowledge, armed with resources, armed with the understanding of like helping people to know why it's so important to make sure that their limits are appropriate, you know, not right before the event, but you know, not like seconds before the event, but six months or a year before the event.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because a lot of times you get in these moratoriums and before catastrophic events, and then it's gonna be like cats in your face, cat butts in your face yet again.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's gonna be a recurring theme of the art of the adjusting.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I have actually created a monster.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, squirrel again, real quick.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: I um, in order to keep the iron claw entertained while he's sitting up here, and basically to stop him from walking back and forth in front of me while I'm trying to type or do whatever I'm doing, yeah, I I I have two screens.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so on the second screen, I've pulled up YouTube's cat for or cat TV, you know, and so it just shows birds chirping and and squirrels, and someone has a live camera somewhere with like bird feed, blah, blah, blah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and so he just loves it.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: He just sits there and is entranced and blah, blah, blah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So now every morning he comes and sits on my desk looking at the second screen, going, Why are we looking at legal documents?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Where's my entertainment?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did I not request TV to be on um this thing?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, uh, takeaway, we should be proactive in staffing up here.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, talking about preparedness, we should be proactive in staffing up.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: We should be proactive in letting our insured know they could be underinsured.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And just telling them that doesn't mean anything.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: You actually need to walk through the math with them or send them a letter or send them an email, blah, blah, blah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And for our adjusters, like our desk adjusters who happen to, like maybe they're not even working a cat claim or whatever.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: If you happen to have a underinsured insured, I always called the agent and I CC'd the agent on that letter, that settlement letter, so that the agent would know this is a great opportunity to sell to sell more insurance, you know, because really we're we're helping our client, and that's what we're supposed to be doing.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can't you can't get yourself in that trap again.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked about this like all the time on on everything that we've talked about through these moments that we've shared here, but don't get yourself in the trap of just thinking about like the claims lane, because if you look at a policy, you need to be looking at that from the lens of an underwriter as well.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that means training yourself to even understand that.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, how would you know that someone was underinsured?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe you need to go talk to your underwriting partners and say, how do you determine property valuations?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: And really understand that from your own company's perspective so that you can be that kind of mitigation person on the front end um and helping those people because that's what you're there to do.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the issue is, as everybody knows, we've talked about it before, speed.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we just don't have enough time, but it does feel like when we do have a catastrophe, everybody wants everything now.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you're getting 300 claims a day.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, you know, if you do it right, you cannot make contact with everybody that you are getting the claim for.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like I've said, the the the quote unquote Chantel way, which would be the quote unquote right way, which is not necessarily, don't get me wrong, which is not necessarily the standard practice and procedure or whatever.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just go a little bit overboard.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: It takes an hour to do everything because you're probably spending a good 30 minutes on the phone with the insured.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can't necessarily do that in the middle of a cat because you're getting a good, I think I got like a hundred claims a day one time.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it's that's just what happens.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I remember when Katrina came, we literally were just answering the phone from the hours of eight to five.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had to do our work, like sending out letters and everything before and after.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of bleeds over into like the compassion fatigue and and um this sort of thing.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: So excuse me.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So go ahead, I'm sorry.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and you know, like you're juggling hundreds of claims normally, yes, and you know, some companies have like triage operations that you have like extra staffing that would take care of like first contacts and things like that for everyone.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: But what what what everyone in that chain of things happening needs to understand is what information do you need to gather on the front end of that claim so that you're not adding time to the back end of the claim and have this because that is exactly like I just saw like a schematic where someone talked about like that first moment that you talk with someone in a claim is so stinking crucial that if you don't get that right, that's what leads to all of the conflict and frustration and irritation by a customer throughout the process is because they've had to tell their story like a thousand times.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: But if there's proper information, proper documentation, and then the person that might get that in the middle actually goes back and reviews that then they're up to speed before they're even trying to handle things.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I know like speed versus accuracy, speed versus quality is always that argument that happens, and speed has become the rule almost anymore claims operations.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that justifies people cutting corners on the front end or in the middle or wherever they're involved in that process.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And people just get that temptation.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm just gonna rubber stamp this and just move it on because it's claims, claims, claims it's a hurricane loss, it's all gonna be the same.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you gotta slow down, folks, at least for a moment so that you can get quality information and that customer isn't sitting there feeling disillusioned and frustrated and taking all that out on you.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you will reduce your own stress level just by making sure that that chain of information stays open and constant, but that it starts with a really, really good contact.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like you said, slow down.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: You say it takes an hour.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure every claim takes an hour, but a lot of them would.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and when I say takes an hour, I mean starting from review of policy to writing all of that stuff down, good claim notes of this is what the coverage is, to contacting the insured, explaining coverage, which is of the utmost importance, explaining the claims process so that they have a good timeline to do things, and then assigning the appraiser or field adjuster or you know, you making the appointment, you going out there.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you're absolutely right.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: When when we have 15 voicemails, because we're spending that amount of time on the thing, we just don't have time to explain all of that.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it might get cut down to, oh, it's just going to be um explaining coverage because that is the requirement by the Department of Insurance and and the unfair claims trade practices is explaining the coverages that the insured has.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Explaining the process is not.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of people let that slip.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: They let that slip even in normal times.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: And and what happens?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: You get phone calls every five minutes going, what's the status of my claim?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's the status of my claim?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: What's the status of my claim?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's the status of my claim?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, dude, the the or I should say, bruh, to to reach my Gen Z uh listeners, bruh.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um don't uh it's not Hurricane insert name here.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was Hurricane Katrina or Hurricane Ian or Hurricane Melissa.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's look look to your left and look to your right.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: There are other people who need to do this, and I'm juggling five billion balls.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you can't say that as an adjuster.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can't, I mean, you just simply can't.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but the temptation, you mentioned rubber stamping, the temptation to just like rubber stamp everything and let it go.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, either pay what what your field appraiser has said without reviewing it can be uh the issue that leads up to bad faith claims.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where I come in because this is how I see it.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I see it at the once litigation has started.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what the adjuster's done is the adjuster has been so overworked.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Again, not the adjuster's fault.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's management's.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: But on the flip side, you know, you gotta you gotta speak up for yourself.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, a whole nother podcast.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, you you just rubber stamp it and you go, yeah, that looks good, and you cut a check without looking at the photographs, without looking at the estimate, without reading a report, without applying coverages, and then you send out a standardized letter that hasn't been changed.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many times in my expert witness uh career where let's just say loss adjustment expenses, uh, you know, ALE additional living expenses isn't an issue.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: But that standard 30-day letter still talks about it.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and take that out, you know, because it confuses the insured if they even read it.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what I'm saying?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, you you're going to get sued over like these sorts of things.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um slow, take a breath.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: That pressure piece that you talked about, you know.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean it's a high stress, high pressure job.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: And these are the moments that matter, though.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, these are the moments where you got to kind of reach into your gut and say, I'm I'm gonna do it right because it's the right thing to do.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if somebody's up, somebody's upset with me about numbers and phone calls and all those things, pull them in and say, look at the results.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Look at the look at the file handling time, look at the, you know, look at the number of phone calls that came back on that particular claim file and judge the judge the totality of the file versus that the issue of I'm just gonna spin it up and and stamp it and say, you know, sign cell delivered, we're gonna we're just gonna give it, we're just gonna deal with it that way, versus we're actually gonna get some accuracy in this process, which is what people what the customers want.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: They want speed, don't get me wrong.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: They want both, and they want the world, and they wanted it yesterday.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but but if you give them quality in that process and treat them well on top of that, that will alleviate the stress off the desk that you're dealing with or off the field, the truck that you're driving around all of the time, you know?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and we're talking uh now also about like empathy and and the moral fatigue, and and well, let's just even talk about brain fatigue.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, oh my gosh, because look, when there's a cat involved, you you are gonna be working more than 40 hours a week.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know you you can walk away from your desk, you're absolutely right, because it stresses you out.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I wouldn't recommend it because then that's when you just do speed instead of accuracy.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: When the phones aren't ringing, this is when you can be more accurate.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you're facing insureds who may have lost everything.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if anybody's seen any pictures from Jamaica, but it looks a lot like uh New Orleans did.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is gone, it's just flattened, it's a bunch of, it's a debris field.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: And and you're basically just taking pictures of the ground at this point.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, you know, you're you're balancing compassion with your contractual duty because you also have the policy language and and you have to talk about, okay, so flooding isn't covered.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And does the insured understand that?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, because they believe that that their homeowners policy pays for everything.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And even if they have flood coverage, and you know, flood coverage doesn't have the same benefits as homeowners.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, usually it's like ACV, there's a much smaller limit involved.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: They may not be getting everything paid for.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And explaining that is hard and it takes a toll on the adjuster.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: But imagine what it does to grandma who is sitting in front of her, you know, yard going, I'm on a fixed income.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, empathy needs to be expressed not only through that communication, that written communication, which again, if you're not having this coverage be involved, take it out because it's confusing, even if they read it.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because I guarantee you, again, I've seen this where because the adjuster did not take it out, they filed suit over it saying that they owed it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Even though there's notes saying, yes, I don't need it, blah, blah, blah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: There was never an e there was never a letter saying, I understand you don't need an additional living expense.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know if that changes, right?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's not never that.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and and so you not only are talking to them, but but you're writing them.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Communication, communication, communication.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think one of the most compassionate things you can do for a customer during an event like this is show them that you care.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: Show them that you understand how they how they're feeling, right?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because you've seen this, you've seen this multiple times if you've been through cat events.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um but making sure that they understand why their policy is the way that it is as well.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's not easy news to deliver.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's never easy to say, yeah, I'm sorry, like there's there's nothing here that you can do.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: But you also can arm yourself with the resources that that customer might be able to access that are beyond their insurance coverages.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Help them to understand that as well.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that that takes educating yourself about what those are so that the customer knows, like, you know, I don't administer these, I don't have any control over these, but oh, by the way, I do know that these things are available to you.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then the other piece of it is is helping them to understand, and maybe maybe right at the moment that the claim happened, it's it's very hard to help them to understand that.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: But helping them to understand that if you go out on a limb and you're paying for things that aren't covered by the policy, it actually hurts people and hurts all people that are involved in the insurance pool.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and a lot of times, I know people buy insurance because they want it paid, right?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: They want they buy the product because they want the claim paid, but helping them to understand that costs will continue to increase and premiums will continue to increase if we pay for things that are not covered by the policy.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I say that as somebody who used to have to balance handling the flood side of a claim and then the homeowner side of the claim as well, as a write your own and when you know, kind of work for was a write your own insurer, and that was that was hard for people.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like they were like, well, the homeowners should just cover it.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really sorry, it can't.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, by the way, if you're frustrated with the coverages that are underneath your flood policy, that's not something that we control even.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: We're just here to register it and pay the claim for you, and like we're supposed to pay it, and the government tells us how we're supposed to pay it, you know.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that is, you know, those are those are hard conversations, but helping people to understand the basis of decisions and then also understanding and recognizing that they're going through a traumatic event and their brain is not working the way that it's supposed to.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's that's the compassion and the empathy right there.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about that before, you know, it's a traumatic event, and and the they're I like the fact that you're telling them to the adjusters to give the insured resources because they don't know what to do when you say no.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they're like, well, what's the next step?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and so uh we're not counselors, you know, we can't do that, but you you can say maybe you want to talk to your agent, or uh maybe you need to look at the Department of Insurance.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that they have some next steps for people who aren't uh having resources enough, blah, blah, blah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then help them to understand, you know, in catastrophic events, sometimes there's some government resources that are available to people.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: The resolutions there most of the time.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there are there are different types of agencies that might be able to assist them in some way.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now, it's not perfect, it's kind of a little bit of a broken system.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: We all know that, but it's something that can help to fill some of the gap for people when they're struggling through these types of events.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and those are hard again, like those are the things that hit an adjuster hard.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're like, okay, I'm in this conflict of loyalty, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly that I have to protect and the consumer that I feel really, really bad for right now.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and the carrier that's paying my, you know, that's signing my check.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I I totally get it because sometimes the carriers do get it wrong.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was talking to my students about this.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: We were doing a little claim scenario, and I said, there are actually four people who got this answer right.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the the thing is is that you may be thinking that you're doing it wrong, but stand by your guns and and let other people know, okay, everybody thinks this, but I really think that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's what your proverbial mom always said, well, if someone's jumping off a bridge, would you jump off?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I would always respond, yeah, probably because there's a good reason.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got grounded.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that's okay.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Bygones, squirrel, anywhere.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Way.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so there is this conflict because you're a human, you feel bad, and you want to help people, but the policy doesn't let you.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or or you know, you finally want you've been missing your kids' baseball game for f six weeks.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: You you want to go see your kids' baseball game or whatever.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's I I even would consider that to be a thing because you're you you gotta do your job, but you also and you need to help other people, but geez, Louise, you also need to be a family person and take care of yourself as well.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is a lot of internal and external conflicts that you would have.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that transparency is is is really important.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I also think like you need you need leaders who are prepared to lead in these types of situations.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: You should you should always have leaders who are prepared to lead, even more in catastrophic situations, because your people are going to feel that conflict.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and leaders just acknowledging that realistically, like I know you feel this right now, but let me equip you with some things that can help you.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: You can come to my office and you can vent and talk about these things that you're frustrated about.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: You can you we have contractual duties, and yes, those must be upheld with the highest ethical standards, right?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're feeling that pressure, you've got to have a leader who recognizes that in their people and and say, Okay, we got these real world dilemmas, people are are beaten down by something awful that happened, everything has been destroyed, you feel completely helpless in that situation, other than I got a check.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it took and it oftentimes takes a minute to get that check.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and because especially if it's like six figures, because it has to go through three layers of management, doesn't it?
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and meanwhile, you're getting yelled at by the insured, where's my money?
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: I I need my money.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would say partial payment, but that's uh again, you know, uh or or you're but yeah, I'm sorry, interrupted.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead, continue.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, but the reality is is there's a lot of stuff that happens during catastrophic events that can make an adjuster feel a little jaded about things.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I had my own personal experiences with a lot of looting stuff that happened after events, but then there were like stage looting events, and there's a lot of you know, the fraud stuff that you start getting seeing coming in, and then you feel like, well, wait a minute, how do I believe grandma over here and the commercial business person who's staging looting losses, and you know, maybe grandma knew them or something, and it's like you start to you start to like jade yourself and your brain of everything is you know, everything is like that, and you you can't have that attitude.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: You have to stick with the facts when you're investigating those fraud losses.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure that you're involved in the partners that can investigate them beyond your desk or whatever you're doing.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: But don't don't feel pressured by what feels like a massive amount of conflict that happens during these circumstances.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I would say use the tools in your tool belt, which may be the manager, your manager, you know, to complain, or even I cannot take this woman talking to me anymore.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to yell at her if I if if I'd have to talk to her one more time, you've got to take the phone call, or the SIU.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And those are great ways to help take care of yourself, in addition to because like I said, you you're probably working 16 hours a day.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's pretty much every day.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the first three weeks, maybe four weeks.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: But after that, I would say continue on, because I mean you have to until it gets down to a manageable level, but then maybe take a Sunday or Saturday off just for the mental health break.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because you're gonna have these ongoing disputes, such as the scope disputes, the reinspections, the litigation, which will come about two years later.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: But in the meantime, you are always arguing.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like it feels like it's a battle because the public adjuster says they need 15 squares, and you say you need three squares or what have you, um, or another storm has come in and they're trying to put the same loss under a different storm.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Guys, I have seen this almost in every single one of my expert witness cases.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Open another claim, guys.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's another date of loss.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and they're gonna have to pay another deductible, but it's another date of loss.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, uh do the reinspection.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Don't fight this.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and again, one of the tools in your tool belt is an appraisal process.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you and the insured do not agree over the damages, the amount, the the the scope or or how much it should be to get it repaired.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: The bottom line is you got to come to a decision about coverage, and you gotta come to a decision about damages and how much that damage is.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and most of the time, yeah, there's there are disputes about coverage, but in cat events, that's not as much, you know, because unless you're dealing wind versus flood, and then that just kind of has to get sorted out as the loss is adjusted on the damages, you know.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: But the damage is part of this, you know, upskill yourself on your on your the skill set that you need to be able to write damage estimates and catastrophic events.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: There are different parts of the building that might be damaged and involved than your traditional water losses or your traditional, you know, claim that you might have for hail or whatever.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: And there's going to be like wide-ranging things that you need to understand, but also realize you don't know everything and you might be out of your depth and you might need to call in an expert, especially on those larger losses that can really discern those damages for you and write a good scope or estimate.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: That demonstrates that you're reaching outside and saying, Wait, this is beyond us, and we we know that, and we need to make sure we get it right.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that usually helps to alleviate that problem of fighting and arguing and being, you know, frustrated about the amount of the loss.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: Don't use the tools that are at your disposal to be able to resolve those situations.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Appraisal is not a bad thing.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know it feels adversarial, but it's not a bad thing whenever it's utilized, especially in these events, because then it's you're you're demonstrating as an insurer, we are willing to work this out.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and come to a resolution of the damage that these people are owed.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I absolutely, I absolutely agree.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: And one point that I would make is when you're doing these reinspections, uh, whether it be with an expert or like an engineer or a building construction person or even the public adjuster and your field appraiser or whatever, is to do the reinspections at the same time and try to come to an agreed scope so that everybody agrees, oh, instead of 50 squares and three squares, okay, we all agree that it's 25 squares.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the pricing may be different, I don't know, but at least we've got that amount.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or we can sit there and go, I think that this is covered, and the other per the other side can go, no, I don't think it's covered for XYZ, and maybe y'all can talk it out right then and there.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna save you some time on the back end on at the field or or at the desk, excuse me.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and recognize, and you know, and this is just from experience, prices are going to go up during catastrophic events, folks, because supply chain is is impacted by that.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna tell you, Xactimates a median price, is what it is.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now that doesn't mean that it it doesn't mean that it's always exactly accurate, and just like digesting that into your brain that there could be there can be fluctuation in pricing, especially in today's market.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: My gosh, there's just there's inflationary pricing even without catastrophic events happening, you know, because of supply chain issues.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: So have awareness, have cognizance, understand, you know, that Xactimate pricing is not the Bible and the dogma.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know somebody said, like somebody over there is probably gonna show up at my door here in a few days and tell me, you know, you're wrong.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I would it's a median price.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I and I would say this you're absolutely right.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: Everything does increase.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you are going back a year and a half later with someone and doing a re-inspection, use the current pricing.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: The insured, the insured is owed it.
• 39:40
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Don't still use the pricing from the the date of loss.
• 39:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're owed it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the the issue may be, of course, and this is a whole different podcast because we you know we're trying to keep it short today, but uh but uh the issue may be that that damage that you're writing doesn't have anything to do with the date of loss of the claim that you're working.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so now you've got coverage, it's just fine.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's again, whole different podcast.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I would also recommend you look to your to your mentor or you do some uh meditation in addition to mediation or arbitration.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh go to your local claims association where you can just chew the fat with some some people who actually understand what you're going through rather than your spouse.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, like there's there's no shame in saying this is overwhelming to me at all, you know, and that's why I I love to give a plug for this organization anytime that I can, especially for um insurance professionals.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's an organization out there called Project 55, project55.org.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's a nonprofit that was started by a couple of people who saw like trending in insurance professionals of you know, mental health stresses and like you know, burnout issues and all those kind of things.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, what can we do about this?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, maybe we can equip people with some tools to be able to help someone in those circumstances.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: They have a free training program, it's mental health first responder training that you can go through that was designed by a professional, designed by a psychologist.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's no cost to this company, by the way, no cost, zero, zero cost other than the time for somebody to sit through it.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Get your people equipped with those tools to be able to help their fellow adjusters that are around them, especially during these types of events.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because those resources are really good to help people to manage through the the coping and the stress of these circumstances that you're kind of forced into anytime Mother Nature decides to flare her ugly face.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, to flex her muscles or uh be sigma or whatever.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, the they are seem they seem to be getting bigger, getting bigger or more dangerous more rapidly.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot that we can do, like we said, to prepare for this, either as as an independent ourselves or as a desk adjuster, we're I mean, it would be great if the C-suite would get more people, but we know that they're looking at the bottom line.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: But there's still things that we can do ourselves.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I'm I uh anything you'd like to add?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um just grab a hold of the power and control that you have to be able to manage that circumstance and do the things that you can do, knowing that there's a whole lot of other uncontrollable control the controllables, is what I gotta say, is like the best piece of advice during catastrophic events.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and on top of that, I'm on pig it back real quick uh is to let go what you can't control.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Stop stressing out what you can't control.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm actually going to say goodbye to you.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Goodbye, goodbye, because yes, I know it's like, oh my gosh, it's like, oh um, this is your last podcast as a guest podcaster with me.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: So be sure to follow not Melissa.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's your Heather?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because I got I got Melissa on the brain.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, how are you doing?
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm probably gonna edit that out, not really, because that's like way too much work.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so be sure to follow Heather, the insurance rebel, on LinkedIn.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, where else are you going to be?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you're gonna, oh, you're well, after this, it's too late, but you you will be speaking at two places in CBCU into risk and and things.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, and I I'm always out there in those conference environments as well.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: And and just a quick shout-out and a plug, if you're ever interested in stepping into those kind of worlds and maybe exercising and flexing some of the skill set that you have as an industry professional, hit me up.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always looking for opportunities to be able to pair folks with from my own organization with people who are on the front lines, dealing with this kind of stuff day in and day out, because I that that's an opportunity for you to be able to grow as a professional as well.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so good news is that Bill will be back in not too, I guess it'll be a month by the time that that everybody hears this.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: And new episodes every Thursday on Spotify and YouTube.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: Please like, subscribe, comment, because it really does help the algorithm.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Pick us up and like suggest us to random people who uh will like to see cat butts in my face.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so thank you, Heather, so much.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we will see you on the flip side, I guess.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us on the Art of Adjusting Podcast, where we talk about life as an insurance adjuster.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: All right, all right.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this podcast or this episode, please give us five stars and a review.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: It does help the algorithm pick us up.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hit that subscribe button real quick and tell all of your adjuster friends to check this out as well.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: For independent adjusting services, go to www.autin.claims.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: And for anyone interested in working as an independent liability adjuster, go to the contact us tab to join our roster.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, you can contact me at theartofadjusting.com for consulting and training purposes.