Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / COPS: Denver Cardiologist Drugs, Rapes Women, 13 Victims Come Forward

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COPS: Denver Cardiologist Drugs, Rapes Women, 13 Victims Come Forward · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:12
Speaker 2: If you can't trust your doctor, who can you trust
0:18
Speaker 2: the thought of a doctor hovering over your unconscious body,
0:23
Speaker 2: you got to really trust that person, right.
0:26
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
0:29
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at series XM
0:31
Speaker 2: one eleven. First of all, take usten to our Freancy,
0:35
Speaker 2: Casey and c.
0:36
Speaker 3: According to this Denver police Alfi David, a woman met
0:39
Speaker 3: up with Matthews after connecting with him on Hinge, a
0:43
Speaker 3: dating app. They had brunch on a Sunday morning in January,
0:46
Speaker 3: then walked to his West Denver townhouse. There, she said,
0:49
Speaker 3: they hung out in his hot tub. Matthews later told
0:52
Speaker 3: police they had consensual sex, but the woman says she
0:56
Speaker 3: remembers none of that, has no recollection of having sex
0:59
Speaker 3: with the doctor, only remembering finding herself hours later at
1:03
Speaker 3: home with paramedics checking her out.
1:06
Speaker 1: Wow.
1:07
Speaker 2: Did we mention the so called doctor she had a
1:11
Speaker 2: date with is a leading cardiologist?
1:17
Speaker 4: Wow?
1:18
Speaker 2: Okay, what exactly is happening and what is hinge with me?
1:24
Speaker 2: An all star panel to make sense of what we
1:27
Speaker 2: know right now? First of all, Lee and Newbecker joining us,
1:30
Speaker 2: a digital forensics expert President of Enigma Forensics. You can
1:37
Speaker 2: find him at Leeneubecker dot com. Lee, thank you for
1:39
Speaker 2: being with us. What is hinge well?
1:41
Speaker 5: Hune is one of many social dating websites out there.
1:47
Speaker 5: Markets itself has been the last app you need that
1:51
Speaker 5: you'll find someone and delete the app, love happily ever after.
1:55
Speaker 2: Oh hey, that is a great marketing tool. Doctor Bethany Marshall,
2:01
Speaker 2: psychoanalyst joining us out of Beverly Heels. You can find right,
2:04
Speaker 2: Doctorbethanymarshall dot com. Don't pooh pooh online dating. My nephew
2:12
Speaker 2: met his now wife online. He dated a lot of
2:16
Speaker 2: other ladies he met online. They got married, They just
2:20
Speaker 2: had their second son and bought a home, so that's
2:24
Speaker 2: working out. However, you do meet a lot of nuts online, Nancy.
2:29
Speaker 6: You have to have really good antennas when you go online.
2:33
Speaker 6: But you're not all we're all not forensic experts like
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Speaker 6: our previous guest was. You know, I think of this
2:39
Speaker 6: is this is a wonderful tool, a dating tool, right
2:44
Speaker 6: And the more, as I say to my patients all
2:46
Speaker 6: the time, the more tools you have in your toolbox,
2:49
Speaker 6: the better. So if you're going to date, a good
2:51
Speaker 6: tool is self love. A good tool is good judgment,
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Speaker 6: knowing to how to evaluate another person on a date, recept, generosity,
3:01
Speaker 6: optimism towards the future. Knowing where to meet people is
3:06
Speaker 6: an excellent tool, but this tool has become a feeding
3:12
Speaker 6: ground for predators, crazies, people who want something other than dating.
3:19
Speaker 6: And just a quick comment about that. What I hear
3:21
Speaker 6: from my patients is that they don't know how to
3:25
Speaker 6: distinguish between somebody who wants to go on a date
3:28
Speaker 6: because they want a bright future with another person, or
3:32
Speaker 6: somebody who's just looking for sex, somebody who just wants
3:35
Speaker 6: to hook up, or somebody who just wants a friend
3:39
Speaker 6: and this is their only way to make a friend.
3:41
Speaker 6: So it's hard to ferret that out at the beginning,
3:43
Speaker 6: let alone, if you're going to be on the date
3:45
Speaker 6: with a sex predator or a monster.
3:47
Speaker 2: Well wait a minute, wait a minute, lea meanbecker. Let
3:50
Speaker 2: me follow up what doctor Bethany Marshall just said. Lee,
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Speaker 2: When you say that as a matter of perception anyway,
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Speaker 2: there's a big difference between, for instance, plenty of fish
4:02
Speaker 2: and tender.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, well you just have to you have to inspect
4:06
Speaker 5: your fish before you you're real event Yes.
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Speaker 6: Yes, but plenty of hits of the dating site. Right, Yes,
4:12
Speaker 6: that's another one.
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Speaker 2: But I'm saying is perceived as being about love and
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Speaker 2: relationships and finding your forever partner, as opposed to other
4:22
Speaker 2: websites where it's basically a hookup.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, the a booty call.
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Speaker 2: I mean Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Why Bad
4:33
Speaker 2: Looks Good that's a great name, by the way, and
4:36
Speaker 2: author of Red Flags. She's at wendypatrickphd dot com and
4:40
Speaker 2: she's the host of Today with Doctor Wendy at KC
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Speaker 2: b Q Wendy. There's a big difference, and here comes
4:51
Speaker 2: the bride and a booty call.
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Speaker 4: That's exactly right. And some of these apps are geared
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Speaker 4: specifically to one group or the other. You've got e Harmon,
5:00
Speaker 4: You've got Christian Mingle, You've got places where people are
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Speaker 4: supposedly looking for long term, committed relationships versus the hookup sites.
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Speaker 4: So absolutely looking at where somebody's posting, I mean they're
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Speaker 4: not cross posting date right.
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Speaker 2: You know, there are romantic slash let's get married websites,
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Speaker 2: and then there it's tender and others.
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Speaker 6: Buffy meets Bagel is one here in Los Angeles, Jay Date,
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Speaker 6: you know Nancy here. Here's the tricky thing is that
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Speaker 6: the people on the hookup sites don't want the other
5:35
Speaker 6: people on the hookup sites, so they gravitate towards the
5:38
Speaker 6: dating sites because those people, I think there's no value
5:42
Speaker 6: judgment here. But those people are a little more optimistic.
5:45
Speaker 6: They want to spend a little trying together, so they
5:48
Speaker 6: gravitate towards the other sites, and then they've becometh hookup
5:54
Speaker 6: people on a dating site.
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Speaker 4: They also want to exploit vulnerability. I agree exactly with
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Speaker 4: the to Bethannie. They want to exploit the vulnerability of
6:02
Speaker 4: people honestly looking for a relationship because they're going to
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Speaker 4: be more open to it. So that's a great point
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Speaker 4: as well.
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Speaker 2: Also joining us Rachel Countryman, forensic nurse expert for Godoy
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Speaker 2: Medical Forensics. She's a sex assault nurse examiner. A saying
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Speaker 2: sex assault nurse examiner, Rachel, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Rachel.
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Speaker 2: You heard our friends speaking from Casey enc The woman
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Speaker 2: says she remembers nothing about consensual sex. She remembers meeting
6:40
Speaker 2: up after a discussion or an interaction on Hinge dating app.
6:47
Speaker 2: They go for what sounds like a nice day brunch
6:50
Speaker 2: on Sunday morning, and then they walk to his West
6:54
Speaker 2: Denver townhouse. They hung out in the hot tub. The
6:58
Speaker 2: next thing she remembers is finding herself hours later at
7:03
Speaker 2: home with paramedics checking her out. She has no recollection
7:08
Speaker 2: of having sex with this top Denver cardiologist age thirty five.
7:14
Speaker 2: Sounds like a wonderful, eligible bachelor. I mean, he's got
7:18
Speaker 2: to be smart because he got through med school. He
7:22
Speaker 2: apparently has all of his teeth and full insurance.
7:26
Speaker 1: So go for it, ladies.
7:28
Speaker 2: So she wakes up in her own home with no
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Speaker 2: recollection of what happened. So, Rachel Countryman, how do you
7:35
Speaker 2: know if you have been raped if you can't remember it?
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Speaker 7: Well, Nancy, I think that we need to point out
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Speaker 7: here that you know, sexual assault is a crime of
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Speaker 7: violence against a person's body and their will. Right they can't.
7:48
Speaker 7: They can have physical trauma and significant mental anguish and suffering,
7:52
Speaker 7: and especially in situations like this. So she went to
7:57
Speaker 7: this person's apartment that she obviously had some trust in,
8:01
Speaker 7: and she doesn't know what happened. That right there, makes
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Speaker 7: someone less likely to report. They don't remember themselves what happened,
8:10
Speaker 7: so how can they tell somebody else what happened to
8:13
Speaker 7: them and be believed. So that's a huge part right there.
8:17
Speaker 2: So why would she believe she had been raped? What
8:19
Speaker 2: would lead a victim to believe they had been raped
8:23
Speaker 2: when they can't remember anything?
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Speaker 7: Well, I think that victims report and end up going in. Remember,
8:30
Speaker 7: a sexual assault forensic exam also known as a safe
8:34
Speaker 7: is a medical exam first and foremost, And it's not
8:38
Speaker 7: going to show a proof that there was somebody was assaulted,
8:43
Speaker 7: and it's not going to show proof that they were
8:45
Speaker 7: even penetrated. I think the purpose of the exam is
8:50
Speaker 7: to make sure they're okay and possibly collect some evidence
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Speaker 7: and that could possibly id the assailant. And you know,
9:01
Speaker 7: with DNA results and stuff, we can then you know,
9:04
Speaker 7: determine that there was sexual contact that occurred some things.
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Speaker 2: Wendy Patrick is California prosecutor, having prosecuted media rapes and
9:14
Speaker 2: sex assault cases. Wendy, in addition to what the rape
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Speaker 2: victim says, there are other ndisha of rapes, such as
9:24
Speaker 2: you wake up in your underwear is on backwards or
9:26
Speaker 2: inside out.
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Speaker 1: You wake up and.
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Speaker 2: Your underwear is torn or your clothes are not back on.
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Speaker 1: You correctly.
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Speaker 2: Or you're missing an article of undergarment, your bra or
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Speaker 2: your underwear. You may find blood or sticky fluid, you
9:47
Speaker 2: may suffer pain, all sorts of indisha that you were
9:53
Speaker 2: raped and you can't remember it.
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Speaker 4: That's exactly right, and that's one of the reasons start
9:58
Speaker 4: exams can be at tool, among others. As you know,
10:02
Speaker 4: when it comes to a consent defense, which is often
10:04
Speaker 4: the case in these I don't remember much type of
10:07
Speaker 4: scenarios where somebody has been drugged or they've had too
10:10
Speaker 4: much a drink, or one of the other things a
10:13
Speaker 4: start exam can show is the type of contact nobody
10:16
Speaker 4: would ever consent to. Anal injuries fall into this category
10:20
Speaker 4: very frequently. So there's lots of reasons in addition to
10:24
Speaker 4: what we just heard talking about those stacy and ada
10:27
Speaker 4: can be collected, et cetera, that this can be one
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Speaker 4: of many tools to indicate unwanted sexual content.
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Speaker 2: So we hear what this woman is saying, and so
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Speaker 2: far a right case, we cannot make out. We know
10:42
Speaker 2: a little bit about her, but what do we know
10:45
Speaker 2: about him? Take a listen to Brian Moss at Case
10:49
Speaker 2: and c.
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Speaker 3: The woman had two mimosas at breakfast, then another at
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Speaker 3: his home along with two shots of tequila. Doctor matthews
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Speaker 3: lawyer says to his client and the woman had consensuals
11:00
Speaker 3: zacts on their first state that lifestyle can result in
11:03
Speaker 3: buyer's remorse, jilted lovers, and tall tales. But the attorney
11:07
Speaker 3: said it is not a crime.
11:25
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace Christopher Gavin, breaking news reporter
11:30
Speaker 2: for The Messenger at The Messenger dot com.
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Speaker 1: Christopher, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: Buyers remorse that lifestyle can result in buyers remorse, jilted lovers,
11:45
Speaker 2: and tall tales, but the lawyer says, it's not a crime.
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Speaker 1: Man. I would have thought long, at hard before.
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Speaker 2: I put that statement out there. So the defense says,
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Speaker 2: buyers remorse. What exacts actly does that mean? Christopher Gavin,
12:02
Speaker 2: That's what this doctor has to say back.
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Speaker 8: Well, basically, you know that doctor Matthews had told police,
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Speaker 8: according to the Affidavid that to him and the woman
12:13
Speaker 8: had consential sex. She vomited a few times after she
12:17
Speaker 8: had some drinks. She offered her water but she declined,
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Speaker 8: and offered her a shower but she accepted, and he
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Speaker 8: claims that she was doing better after a while and
12:27
Speaker 8: she called nouber and went home.
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Speaker 1: Wow.
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Speaker 2: So doctor Messidy Marshall in that scenario that Chris Gavin
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Speaker 2: with the Messager accurately pointed out as having been the outline.
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Speaker 1: The good doctor gave.
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Speaker 2: Where does buyer's remorse that lifestyle can result in Buyer's
12:46
Speaker 2: remorse jilted lovers and tall tales.
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Speaker 6: What he thinks he's the best thing out there?
12:52
Speaker 1: But how can that resonate with anybody?
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Speaker 6: Hasn't it points to his psycho pathology.
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Speaker 2: Buyer's remorse I don't think ray allegations by a victim
13:06
Speaker 2: or Buyer's.
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Speaker 6: Remorse, Nancy. This speaks to motivation on his part. He
13:13
Speaker 6: thinks he has rationalized that he is the best thing
13:17
Speaker 6: out there and that she wanted him and now she's
13:21
Speaker 6: regretting it. But if you just think of the storyline
13:25
Speaker 6: of what happened that night. He's a cardiologist, and then
13:28
Speaker 6: he gives her water when she's thrown up three times.
13:31
Speaker 6: I mean, we all know that she probably needed an
13:34
Speaker 6: IV at that point, he puts her in the shower. Well,
13:38
Speaker 6: that's not great. And then exactly and then she puts
13:44
Speaker 6: her in an uber. We all know that even if
13:47
Speaker 6: you go for a polenoscopy or any kind of medical
13:51
Speaker 6: procedure where you are put under anesthesia. You're told to
13:56
Speaker 6: have a familiar person drive you home, so he puts
13:59
Speaker 6: her in uber and she's out of it. I mean,
14:02
Speaker 6: it has wrong written all over the story.
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Speaker 4: You know, I think buyer's remorse is the wrong analogy.
14:09
Speaker 1: Well, that's one way of putting it.
14:11
Speaker 2: I think they stuck their foot right in their mouth,
14:13
Speaker 2: and I'd like to stick it somewhere else. But I mean,
14:17
Speaker 2: you at very best have sex with a woman. She says,
14:21
Speaker 2: she recalls nothing of it, and wakes up, and the
14:24
Speaker 2: EMTs are working on she, for whatever reason, believes she's
14:29
Speaker 2: been raped. And the response is buyer's remorse, jilted lover,
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Speaker 2: oh h e double l noo. If the lawyer had
14:39
Speaker 2: any brains, they would have said nothing. But if they
14:43
Speaker 2: felt they had to speak, I would have exhibited caring
14:48
Speaker 2: and sympathy for the female complainant instead of jilted.
14:54
Speaker 1: Oh m hmm, what were you saying, Wendy Patrick.
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Speaker 4: You know the reason that's the wrong analogy is women
15:00
Speaker 4: don't claim rape as the result of a bad date.
15:03
Speaker 4: When you claim rape and you are interviewed and everything
15:07
Speaker 4: that goes along with that. You're on trial and you're
15:10
Speaker 4: in the spotlight, and that is not where sexual assault
15:12
Speaker 4: victims want to be. It is a painful, difficult, challenging
15:16
Speaker 4: process to work through some of the what goes on
15:19
Speaker 4: after that. So I think what we're looking at here
15:22
Speaker 4: is not knowing what happened, trying to figure it out,
15:25
Speaker 4: and just being honest about what they do remember and
15:28
Speaker 4: why they wouldn't have consented to some of what went next.
15:31
Speaker 4: That's what seems to be the fact better.
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Speaker 2: Rachel Couchman joining us friends saying nurse and a saying
15:37
Speaker 2: sex assault nurse examiner. Let's just go on what the
15:40
Speaker 2: defendant said. Excuse me, the good doctor, Rachel. What would
15:46
Speaker 2: a shower? What effect would a shower have on evidence
15:49
Speaker 2: regarding a rape victims?
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Speaker 7: Well, the shower could wash away evidence. Touch DNA, you
15:56
Speaker 7: know we have we are able to get DNA now
15:58
Speaker 7: on touch liva. Depending on how much she bathed and
16:04
Speaker 7: showered and washed those areas, potentially DNA could have.
16:09
Speaker 2: Been washed away saliva, as Rachel Countryman points out, sperm
16:14
Speaker 2: if it's on her body, pubic hare, which will be
16:19
Speaker 2: part of a pelvic exam, the pubic hair of the
16:23
Speaker 2: victim is combed with a special type of comb. It's
16:30
Speaker 2: very fine to gather pubic hairs left by the rapist
16:37
Speaker 2: on the victim. All sorts of evidence is gathered during
16:42
Speaker 2: a pelvic exam, but a shower could get rid of
16:46
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence. Even if sperm DNA is found
16:52
Speaker 2: in her vagina or rectum, there's still the defense it
16:57
Speaker 2: was all consensual. She can't remember what happened, so what
17:02
Speaker 2: does that mean? What more do we know? Take a
17:08
Speaker 2: listen to our friensy kc mc.
17:10
Speaker 3: Matthews had a dating profile on the Hinge app in
17:14
Speaker 3: twenty twenty and connected with a woman we'll call Jane,
17:17
Speaker 3: who went with him to his Uptown apartment. There, she says,
17:20
Speaker 3: after minimal drinking, she blocked out, woke up naked on
17:23
Speaker 3: the floor, and texted a family member, I think there's
17:26
Speaker 3: a good chance something very bad happened to be The
17:29
Speaker 3: next day, September twenty ninth, twenty twenty, she underwent a
17:33
Speaker 3: rape exam and sent an email to Hinge about what
17:36
Speaker 3: she says happened. We'll be taking immediate steps, wrote back Hinge.
17:40
Speaker 3: We permanently banned him from Hinge. The company told her,
17:44
Speaker 3: so is he is.
17:47
Speaker 1: He banned from Hinge take a listen.
17:50
Speaker 3: But four months later, as she was on the dating
17:53
Speaker 3: app again, she again found his profile and again wrote
17:57
Speaker 3: Hinge on January thirtieth, twenty twenty one, I was raped
18:01
Speaker 3: after a first day with an individual I met and
18:04
Speaker 3: communicated with by a Hinge. He still exists within your ecosystem,
18:09
Speaker 3: she wrote, and is posing a potential threat to other
18:12
Speaker 3: women within the Hinge community.
18:14
Speaker 1: Their ban is essentially meaningless.
18:18
Speaker 3: Eva Galprin is the director of cybersecurity for the Electronic
18:22
Speaker 3: Frontier Foundation.
18:24
Speaker 1: Whatever they did was clearly insufficient. It did not even
18:29
Speaker 1: clear the most basic bar of what you want to
18:33
Speaker 1: do when you want to ban someone.
18:36
Speaker 2: So let me understand Christopher Gavin joining us from the Messenger.
18:40
Speaker 2: This woman goes to Hinge, tells them what happened, and
18:44
Speaker 2: they agree to quote ban him. But for most letter,
18:48
Speaker 2: she checks and he's back. Do I have those facts correct,
18:51
Speaker 2: Christopher Gavin?
18:52
Speaker 8: Yeah, according to that TVs support, Yes, yes, ma'am.
18:55
Speaker 5: I mean you have a problem if you're going to
18:57
Speaker 5: ban someone. The principal ways they do are based on
19:00
Speaker 5: an email and a phone number, and it doesn't take
19:03
Speaker 5: but ten minutes to create a new email account by
19:06
Speaker 5: a burner phone. But the only way these dating apps
19:09
Speaker 5: financially have forced us is to use AI photo recognition
19:13
Speaker 5: and id the purps based on their profile pictures. And
19:18
Speaker 5: that doesn't appear to be happy.
19:19
Speaker 2: Guys, you're hearing Leate Newbecker, digital forensics expert at Enigma Forensics,
19:24
Speaker 2: where he is the president and CEO. You're saying, and
19:28
Speaker 2: regular people talk, not technical digital talk, that it would
19:32
Speaker 2: have been an easy thing for Hand to Banhand unless
19:36
Speaker 2: he came back under a burger phone exactly.
19:38
Speaker 5: And people who are doing bad things they find ways
19:42
Speaker 5: to get around it. Even with photo detection. They can
19:44
Speaker 5: alter photos, make photos unique so they can't be identified
19:48
Speaker 5: as easily interesting.
19:50
Speaker 2: But Hinge didn't do that. Okay, guys, take a listen
19:54
Speaker 2: more of Brian mass.
19:56
Speaker 3: After Jane's second report to Hinge in twenty twenty one,
20:00
Speaker 3: Hinge emailed her. It appears he created a new account
20:03
Speaker 3: using completely different login credentials. We have now permanently banned
20:08
Speaker 3: that account and taken additional steps to ensure that he
20:11
Speaker 3: stays permanently off Hinge. But whatever steps they took clearly
20:17
Speaker 3: didn't work. But according to text messages, between Matthews and
20:20
Speaker 3: other women. He was back on the Hinge app again
20:23
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three.
20:26
Speaker 2: The fact that he's back on a dating app is concerning,
20:30
Speaker 2: and I certainly do not want to limit his freedom
20:33
Speaker 2: of speech.
20:34
Speaker 1: It's concerning because of this Listen.
20:37
Speaker 3: He was back on the Hinge app again in twenty
20:39
Speaker 3: twenty two and twenty twenty three, meeting more women like
20:44
Speaker 3: this woman he went out with in January of this year.
20:48
Speaker 9: I should have never ever even been able to match
20:51
Speaker 9: with him, because he should have never been able to
20:53
Speaker 9: make another account.
20:54
Speaker 3: She says. After several drinks with Matthews at his home,
20:57
Speaker 3: she blacked out and underwent a rape test next day,
21:00
Speaker 3: which she says showed she had intercourse which she does
21:03
Speaker 3: not remember.
21:04
Speaker 2: To Christopher Gavin from The Messenger, let me understand, we
21:08
Speaker 2: now have two victims saying essentially the same thing, except
21:11
Speaker 2: the first one had drinks with him at Sunday brunch
21:14
Speaker 2: and the other one had.
21:16
Speaker 1: Drinks at home.
21:17
Speaker 2: Is that the only difference except drinks at his home
21:22
Speaker 2: not her home.
21:24
Speaker 8: Well, I believe that.
21:25
Speaker 10: Yeah, there were some drinks in the January case at
21:30
Speaker 10: the back brunch, but there was also drinks, I believe
21:33
Speaker 10: in both cases at doctor Matthewston's personal home.
21:37
Speaker 2: That's really interesting that you said that, Chris Gavin to
21:40
Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall.
21:42
Speaker 1: I want to go into.
21:43
Speaker 2: The dynamic of why you'd one half sex with a
21:45
Speaker 2: basically unconscious person. But before I got to that, let
21:50
Speaker 2: me ask you this. Do you see his mo unfolding?
21:53
Speaker 2: If in fact these allegations are true, it has to
21:56
Speaker 2: be at his home so he can control the arena,
22:02
Speaker 2: he can control the crime, saying.
22:04
Speaker 6: Nancy, absolutely, this, This is a well oiled machine at
22:07
Speaker 6: this point. He knows where to control. For victims, he
22:11
Speaker 6: probably knows based upon their response patterns, we know how
22:16
Speaker 6: far he's going to get with them. Not to blame
22:18
Speaker 6: the victim, but he probably has some pattern in his
22:21
Speaker 6: own mind, even if it may not play out in reality.
22:24
Speaker 6: He takes them to a public place where they drink
22:27
Speaker 6: something so he can say, oh, they drank too much
22:30
Speaker 6: when they were you know, out at brunch.
22:33
Speaker 2: And there'll be survilla's video of them at brunch most likely, but.
22:39
Speaker 1: For lunch. Yeah, go ahead.
22:40
Speaker 6: Well, who knows what else is in his home? You know?
22:43
Speaker 6: That's that's why I was wondering, you know, are there
22:45
Speaker 6: is there a bondage kit?
22:47
Speaker 4: Uh?
22:48
Speaker 6: Is there? Remember the Max Factor heir when he was
22:52
Speaker 6: raising victims, drugging them, but then he would take films
22:56
Speaker 6: of them and then replay and replay them. So you know,
23:00
Speaker 6: are these women being taped? You know what what is
23:04
Speaker 6: he doing with that tape or with that footage? And
23:08
Speaker 6: you know, I think you're right in his home. Other
23:13
Speaker 6: than him taping them, there's not going to be any surveillance.
23:17
Speaker 6: That's an excellent point. So he can do whatever he
23:20
Speaker 6: wants while they're out of it and don't remember, and
23:23
Speaker 6: he can basically gaslight and see nothing happened.
23:27
Speaker 1: Winny Patrick, California prosecutor and author.
23:30
Speaker 2: I was thinking about a scenario not as complex as
23:33
Speaker 2: what doctor Bethany Marshall just told us. I was thinking
23:36
Speaker 2: of something more fundamental to keep the victim at his home,
23:40
Speaker 2: control the crime, saying, you don't have to worry about
23:42
Speaker 2: a roommate walking in. You don't have to worry about
23:45
Speaker 2: does she live with her family, does she have children?
23:48
Speaker 2: Of course, a lot of that he could determine in
23:50
Speaker 2: their discussions on him, if they were, you know, going
23:54
Speaker 2: back and forth in a sort of digital conversation. You
23:57
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about her having Samie Elsviebia in
24:01
Speaker 2: her home that she can then pull up and go, oh, look,
24:04
Speaker 2: you raped me. There's not a dog bounding story that's
24:07
Speaker 2: going to bite you in the rear end. There's all
24:10
Speaker 2: sorts of factors that would make it more conducive to
24:14
Speaker 2: a nefarious rape at his place.
24:17
Speaker 4: That's exactly right, and it also forecasts the potential defense.
24:21
Speaker 4: If you've got a stranger rape. Oftentimes you don't see
24:24
Speaker 4: somebody picking up someone at the bar and going back
24:26
Speaker 4: to the perpetrator's home because then the victim will know
24:28
Speaker 4: who it is and where he lives. But if you
24:30
Speaker 4: need on a dating app, you're not hiding identity. The
24:33
Speaker 4: defense is going to be consent. So controlling the crime
24:36
Speaker 4: scene avoids interruptions like Amazon deliveries, relatives, stopping over all
24:41
Speaker 4: the types of things that you have no control over
24:43
Speaker 4: because you don't know the person well enough, hence the unconsent.
24:47
Speaker 4: And that's one of the things that really distinguishes the
24:49
Speaker 4: case like this from a hookups at a bar where
24:52
Speaker 4: there's no preconceived or pre existing relationship, even from a
24:56
Speaker 4: dating app.
24:57
Speaker 2: Now we've focused on the doctor. But what role, if any,
25:02
Speaker 2: does Hinge play in this? And she remember so far,
25:07
Speaker 2: only told you about two alleged to victims. Take a
25:11
Speaker 2: listen to our cut fifteen.
25:13
Speaker 9: If they had listened to the multitude of reports that
25:17
Speaker 9: they had received about this person and just banned him
25:20
Speaker 9: in the first place, I would not be sitting here
25:23
Speaker 9: today having this conversation.
25:25
Speaker 3: Doctor Matthews lawyer previously indicated his client as innocent. Hinge
25:29
Speaker 3: said in a statement, what's been reported is horrible, and
25:32
Speaker 3: they said they would assist law enforcement in any way
25:35
Speaker 3: they can. Important to note here Hinge would not answer
25:38
Speaker 3: our repeated questions about how, after this doctor was reportedly
25:43
Speaker 3: banned from their website, how he managed to maintain a
25:45
Speaker 3: Hinge dating profile for several years.
25:48
Speaker 1: I bet they aren't.
25:49
Speaker 2: I bet they are not saying it weren't so Lean Newbecker.
25:52
Speaker 2: How did he stay on Hinge?
25:54
Speaker 8: Well, I think we've got to.
25:55
Speaker 5: Be a little bit fair here because the notion that
26:00
Speaker 5: any app like hins as total control over the users
26:04
Speaker 5: is a little on. Sure is very easy to create
26:07
Speaker 5: a new account, new credentials and log and what I
26:09
Speaker 5: don't know if him just doing Now are they tracking
26:12
Speaker 5: the photos because once a perpetrator is identified, they can
26:17
Speaker 5: take the digital hash values of those photos and identify
26:21
Speaker 5: any other user transmitting this. And we don't know if
26:24
Speaker 5: they're doing that or no. If they are, they're doing
26:26
Speaker 5: the best they can do.
26:29
Speaker 2: Good point, very good point, Lee Nee Becker. Okay, So
26:32
Speaker 2: let's just pretend for arguments say that Hinds did everything right,
26:37
Speaker 2: which I'm not sure I believe that.
26:40
Speaker 1: But how is this guy still practicing? Take a listen
26:44
Speaker 1: to our friends at nine Knews.
26:46
Speaker 3: The woman says she decided to go forward with the
26:49
Speaker 3: criminal case after she learned that a family friend had
26:52
Speaker 3: gone on a day with doctor Matthew several years ago
26:55
Speaker 3: and said she had a similar experience.
26:58
Speaker 11: Please say the first came forward. She accused of cardiologist
27:02
Speaker 11: Steven Matthews of sexually assaulting her after meeting him on
27:06
Speaker 11: the dating app Hinge. On March twenty eighth, the Denver
27:09
Speaker 11: prosecutors charged him with three felony accounts of sexual assault.
27:13
Speaker 11: One month later, Matthews was still able to renew his
27:17
Speaker 11: license to practice medicine.
27:19
Speaker 1: So what echo ink you jink?
27:22
Speaker 2: One alleged victim actually is in contact with a family
27:27
Speaker 2: friend who went through an almost identical alleged sex assault
27:34
Speaker 2: by this cardiologist.
27:37
Speaker 1: So the police go.
27:39
Speaker 2: Ahead and they charge him. But yet one month later,
27:45
Speaker 2: he still is able to renew his practice, his medical
27:51
Speaker 2: license to continue to practice.
27:54
Speaker 1: More from nine News.
27:56
Speaker 12: I'm shocked and dismayed as a person, as a FI
28:00
Speaker 12: physician and as a colleague who practices in cardiology.
28:03
Speaker 11: That I News medical expert doctor poll Coley thinks there
28:05
Speaker 11: needs to be more oversight. She knows how renewals work
28:09
Speaker 11: because she submitted her application last mind, it was.
28:12
Speaker 12: A less than five minute process. Uh, and it didn't
28:15
Speaker 12: require me to talk about my criminal convictions or mental
28:18
Speaker 12: health changes. It was just a blanket sort of a question.
28:21
Speaker 12: Have there been any changes that you would like to report?
28:24
Speaker 11: Yes, that you would like to report. According to a
28:27
Speaker 11: notice by DORA, the Department of Regulatory Agencies, it's up
28:31
Speaker 11: to the applicant to list any arrests or churgeons.
28:34
Speaker 12: Which physician would voluntarily give up information when they haven't
28:39
Speaker 12: yet been convicted, only been charged that may put their
28:41
Speaker 12: license at risk.
28:42
Speaker 2: Wow, So the whole process is basically anything you want
28:47
Speaker 2: to tell us, And of course he says no and
28:51
Speaker 2: continues to practice medicine. Having one lady after the next
28:55
Speaker 2: undress in front of him and more listen.
29:00
Speaker 11: Dora says, the Medical Board renews a license unless it's
29:03
Speaker 11: under suspension or an applicant reports something bad about themselves.
29:07
Speaker 11: Two weeks after the board approved Matthew's application, the Denver
29:11
Speaker 11: District Attorney charged him again for assaulting nine more women.
29:15
Speaker 12: But it should really be some sort of a bigger
29:17
Speaker 12: systemic thing that if there is a criminal charge against you,
29:21
Speaker 12: that should be reported to Dora directly, you know, So
29:25
Speaker 12: it's a way to protect our patients.
29:26
Speaker 11: Matthews agreed with the board to not practice right now
29:29
Speaker 11: after the additional charges.
29:31
Speaker 2: After the additional charges crime stories with Nancy Grace, how
29:52
Speaker 2: many more women did he meet? I mean, doctor Bethany.
29:56
Speaker 2: Not only is social media completely failing these women, I'm
30:00
Speaker 2: talking about hinge unless, as Neebacker says, they did everything
30:05
Speaker 2: possible to keep them off their.
30:07
Speaker 1: Site, which I doubt, but that's what they're saying.
30:11
Speaker 2: And now the Medical Board, who does no investigation at all,
30:18
Speaker 2: I mean, to get a law license, they even would
30:21
Speaker 2: go and talk to neighbors to find out about you.
30:25
Speaker 6: Nancy. The Board of Behavioral Science Examiners here in California,
30:28
Speaker 6: which I have to be is a board that renews
30:32
Speaker 6: my license psychoanalyst, Marriage and Family Therapists LCSW clinical psychologists.
30:40
Speaker 6: You have to answer a questionnaire in which you are asked,
30:43
Speaker 6: have you ever been arrested? And then they investigate. The
30:49
Speaker 6: board is connected to the DMV, it's connected to I
30:55
Speaker 6: don't know whatever edge agency it is, or they would
30:57
Speaker 6: check to see if you've been arrested. It's not a
30:59
Speaker 6: self apporting family. You're required to self report. But then
31:03
Speaker 6: if you haven't arrested and you don't report it, then
31:06
Speaker 6: that's a whole nother offense because you've purgured yourself and
31:09
Speaker 6: you likely will never get your license renewed again. And
31:12
Speaker 6: you know Nancy, and another aspect of this, So many
31:15
Speaker 6: people came in contact with this guy as a physician
31:18
Speaker 6: who maybe should have had some suspicion he knew how
31:21
Speaker 6: to drug these women so that they didn't remember what
31:24
Speaker 6: was happening. And I know there are you know, the
31:26
Speaker 6: common date rate drugs, but I'm sure she had friends
31:29
Speaker 6: who were pharmacists, who were anesthesiologists, people who are experts
31:35
Speaker 6: in you know, administering profile fill and things like that,
31:38
Speaker 6: and so kind of wonder. It's not just the licensing board,
31:43
Speaker 6: it's this broader network of professionals that should be holding
31:47
Speaker 6: each other to a higher standard. This is not just
31:50
Speaker 6: your neighbor, this is your guy. You're in the o.
31:53
Speaker 1: R with guys.
31:54
Speaker 2: Ultimately, do we ever find out how many a victims
32:00
Speaker 2: have been raped by this top Denver cardiologist? Drug and
32:05
Speaker 2: rape allegedly. Take a listener hour cut nine our forensic
32:10
Speaker 2: casey and C.
32:11
Speaker 3: The new cases have been sealed, but core records show
32:13
Speaker 3: two of the new cases against Matthews involve a ledged
32:16
Speaker 3: sexual assault. The other seven charge him with second degree
32:20
Speaker 3: assault for allegedly drugging women. Within hours, Denver police descended
32:25
Speaker 3: on Matthew's West Denver townhouse, executing a search warm and
32:29
Speaker 3: seizing evidence.
32:30
Speaker 1: More from nine Knews.
32:31
Speaker 13: Stephen Matthews remains in custody pending his criminal case involving
32:35
Speaker 13: dozens of charges, including sexual assault. Matthews faces fifty one
32:40
Speaker 13: criminal charges after thirteen women came forward.
32:43
Speaker 2: And of course, guys. He is claiming that he is
32:46
Speaker 2: not guilty, but this really brings back memories another well
32:56
Speaker 2: known person charged with a similar crime.
32:59
Speaker 1: Take listen to our cut thirty.
33:02
Speaker 14: Bill Cosby called me out of the blue and he said,
33:06
Speaker 14: can you come by and see me? And I was like,
33:08
Speaker 14: of course. I went up to his hotel and I
33:12
Speaker 14: was alone. He talked about, let me see what type
33:15
Speaker 14: of acting skills you have. I want you to improv.
33:18
Speaker 14: And as I tried to do improv be fixed a drink,
33:21
Speaker 14: I noticed myself getting a little dizzy.
33:24
Speaker 2: And more, guys, you were just listening to our friends
33:27
Speaker 2: at doctor Phil take a listen to ABC.
33:29
Speaker 15: Cosby was convicted of drugging and sexually assaulting Andrea Constant
33:33
Speaker 15: at his home.
33:34
Speaker 1: The court will now also.
33:35
Speaker 15: Revisit the judge's decision to allow five other women to
33:40
Speaker 15: testify about Cosby giving them drugs.
33:43
Speaker 2: You know to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, Doctor Bethany,
33:47
Speaker 2: what is the psychopathy behind someone that enjoys raping a
33:54
Speaker 2: lady while she is completely unconscious, drunk or drugged.
34:00
Speaker 6: We know about perversions is that when you have a perversion,
34:05
Speaker 6: you are sexually excited by anything other than the other
34:09
Speaker 6: person's personality. You might be as stimulated by let's say,
34:15
Speaker 6: only pictures, or being stomped on by high heels, or
34:20
Speaker 6: being whipped, or maybe by children stimulated sexually by children,
34:26
Speaker 6: or rubbing up against unsuspecting people in public, fraudism, exhibitionism, voyeurism.
34:33
Speaker 6: But boy, you do not want to relate to another
34:35
Speaker 6: person in terms of who they are, with thoughts and
34:39
Speaker 6: feelings and emotions of their own. And that's one of
34:41
Speaker 6: the ways we diagnose perversions in clinical practice is the
34:46
Speaker 6: person is excited by an aspect of sexuality, but not
34:52
Speaker 6: by the person. They want that person to be dead, gone,
34:56
Speaker 6: an object when.
34:58
Speaker 2: You know, not a real person, Doctor Bethany, before I
35:01
Speaker 2: went out of time, I want to fall up on something,
35:03
Speaker 2: you said, Christopher Gavin with the Messenger. One accuser says,
35:07
Speaker 2: at least one that we know of, says Matthew sent
35:10
Speaker 2: her photos of her naked in the hot tub after
35:12
Speaker 2: she refused to see him again. Another says she woke
35:16
Speaker 2: up with bite marks on her arms. What can you
35:19
Speaker 2: tell us about allegations of revenge porn?
35:22
Speaker 8: Those are somethings that came up in the Affidavid. That's
35:27
Speaker 8: kind of all we know right now in terms of
35:30
Speaker 8: how those photos might have been distributed, that doctor Matthew's
35:34
Speaker 8: alligedly sent them back to the woman, we don't know
35:37
Speaker 8: if they had appeared anywhere else, which I think bench
35:40
Speaker 8: Porno would imply. But that's all we know right now.
35:44
Speaker 2: So what do you think about that, doctor Bethany alleged
35:47
Speaker 2: photos and videos taken of the victims.
35:50
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I think in that case, whatever he
35:53
Speaker 6: can do while they're unconscious and it's outside of their
35:57
Speaker 6: awareness is going to steal him. Minute they start to
36:01
Speaker 6: wake up and become conscious, he probably loses interest in them,
36:06
Speaker 6: other than if he can use the revenge porn to
36:09
Speaker 6: lure them back in, render them unconscious, and then do
36:13
Speaker 6: whatever he wants to do with them again. And Nancy,
36:15
Speaker 6: you know, I'm scared to think about what he did
36:18
Speaker 6: do to them when they're out. I mean, we know
36:20
Speaker 6: about the bitemarks, we know about all of the other
36:25
Speaker 6: things that the reporter just now mentioned, what else, you know,
36:30
Speaker 6: bringing out their perse stuff?
36:31
Speaker 4: And I think that's a great point because one of
36:33
Speaker 4: the ways we can answer that is to what else happened?
36:36
Speaker 4: Is when you have a classic case.
36:38
Speaker 8: You know, I.
36:38
Speaker 4: Normally say patterns make the predator, but after listening to
36:40
Speaker 4: doctor Bethany, I'd say patterns make the perversion. But if
36:44
Speaker 4: that pattern includes filming when the search warrant was served,
36:47
Speaker 4: they may turn up some of the evidence about what
36:49
Speaker 4: else happened, what happened to each of them, What are
36:52
Speaker 4: the similarities. You know, there's safety in numbers. We've had
36:55
Speaker 4: a number of women that have come forward, But for
36:57
Speaker 4: other victims that are out there, you know, silent, this
37:00
Speaker 4: is not golden and this may encourage them to find
37:03
Speaker 4: their voice. Maybe there'll be more allegations in the future
37:06
Speaker 4: once they find some of this footage Lee and Niebecker.
37:09
Speaker 2: Is it possible that any evidence is going to be
37:12
Speaker 2: discovered through digital seizure?
37:15
Speaker 5: Well, certainly, if police seizes his cell phone in his computer,
37:19
Speaker 5: it's highly likely that he has images of victims on
37:22
Speaker 5: the computer, and they may be able to identify other
37:25
Speaker 5: people that were perpetrated and trace those leads. Same thing
37:28
Speaker 5: with Hinge. Hinge may have a history of all the
37:31
Speaker 5: people he communicated with, and they may have that data.
37:33
Speaker 5: So we don't know exactly what police have or have
37:36
Speaker 5: not done, but I would fully expect it with the
37:39
Speaker 5: rest they would want his computer in a phone so
37:43
Speaker 5: that they could identify other other victims.
37:46
Speaker 1: More from nineties.
37:48
Speaker 13: Stephen Matthews remains in custody pending his criminal case involving
37:52
Speaker 13: dozens of charges, including sexual assault. His attorney entered.
37:55
Speaker 3: A policeman and at this time on behalf of Dr Matthews,
37:59
Speaker 3: wo'll be entering that he'll deeply announced to set promotions
38:01
Speaker 3: in trial.
38:02
Speaker 13: After that, the judge set a trial date for March fourth,
38:05
Speaker 13: which could take up to three weeks.
38:06
Speaker 2: If you have information regarding the case of doctor Stephen Matthews,
38:12
Speaker 2: top Denver cardiologist, please call seven two zero nine one
38:17
Speaker 2: three two thousand repeat seven two zero nine one three
38:23
Speaker 2: two thousand.
38:25
Speaker 1: Goodbye, friend,