Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #240 - For Azeroth!: “Compendium 01 - Tripping on Titans"

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#240 - For Azeroth!: “Compendium 01 - Tripping on Titans" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

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Tehran for the Kirin, Tor and Dario for calendar.
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Organists our cars. Not die for the sin Dora for the
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alliance for Azeroth. Hello, and welcome to a very
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special. Special installment of for
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Azeroth. I'm calling this the baz
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compendium for. Now, this will be a special lore
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episode where we dig deep into what might lie in store for us,
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in dragonflight joining me. As always is my co-host with the
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most live. Hello, how are you doing?
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I'm doing well. Manny, how are you doing?
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Great, but we are not alone today.
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I have A panel of lore, experts starting with from Wowhead doing
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articles all over the place, and always filling me in.
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We have discordant Kitty, this gritty.
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Kitty. How are you today?
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I'm good. How are you?
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Like I said, I'm doing fantastic.
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It's been a, it's been a week, but I'm really glad that we got
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to sit down and do this. And then, of course, somebody
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who I have been pestering for the last little bit, we have in
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pervy, mm with With the theories of craziness and how are you?
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I'm doing just well full of breakfast and I'm going to go
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I'm ready to get these theories rolling.
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Okay, well then we won't lay around and wait while you've
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still got your breakfast in you. Let's talk about the pre patch.
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So with the pre patch, we had the legacies, the three videos
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that came out over last little bit and we got even more with
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the track. They're starting zone.
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And the phase two. So right now, there's been a lot
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focused on the drakh theater and the of course, this is true
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because this is a new playable race.
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This is the new player class and they are so tied with the story.
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When you guys were going through the legacies videos, what do you
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think the purpose of those were other than to say, hi.
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This is our Our new drag their leader and with all like, what
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do you think that they're the team was trying to communicate
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to us or hint at us? Let's start with well in
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Peruvian. Let's start with you.
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So one of the one of the things that I know that they were
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trying to do is do a little more background on neltharion and
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death wing and kind of the, in the third episode, they were
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kind of getting a little bit more into his background of like
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how the drag theater kind of came about out, they didn't like
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Come up with the like they didn't explain any reasonings of
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why they showed up, but my take is that he created them to
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combat the Primal and garnets and the threat that they posed.
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But the interesting part is that they showed off how the the
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corruption kind of gave a gave in to the corruption of the old
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gods, to have to defeat Razz Geth and that struck a chord in
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me because We've always seen its like the corruption slowly over
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time was getting to him and it's like we always assume that he
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just kind of fell into it like you just gave in overtime slowly
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surely but this episode basically confirms that he's
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like he's been fighting it this entire time and they just said I
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guess the Whispers were just like hey just give in will let
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you defeat him if you help us and he's like all right we'll do
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it. And he created a portal somehow.
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I'm like whoa, Boyd magic portals like whoa, this is cool
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too. It was a lot.
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There's a lot to that one. That was the episode that stood
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out the most, to me, for sure. Yeah, with that being the third
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episode. I think that's where they were
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really saving their big reveals. Mmm.
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Okay. And then let's pass it on to
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Kitty. What do you think that the
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messages they were trying to put forward with legacies were Well,
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I agree about the third episode. How all the big reveals were in
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that one. It's actually really
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interesting. How, the first two didn't
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actually tell us anything new. In fact, we've got a lot more
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detail on those events, but it was, it was great because, like,
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a lot of people have never read the books, obviously, and don't
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actually know those stories. So I think legacies in general
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is like, just sort of getting everyone in the same.
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Same page about what law are we working with here.
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And then from there, we'll go into Dragon flats and see where
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it's going. I found the hole tighten
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artifacting really surprised me my quick question.
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Do we all think it's tears hand? It's a glove.
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Like and so it's so fitting. That would be tier.
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I don't think so. I think that maybe they're
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making the But let's hear from other people live.
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What do you think? Yeah, so on the note of the
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glove, like I think it is interesting tying that to tears
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hand because explicitly, we don't know what happened to
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tears hand. All we know is that he lost it.
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I think it's assumed that galakrond ate it, but we don't
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know for sure. So there's like there's an air
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of mystery around. Like what what happened to it?
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Like what is where did it go? It did it did it get eaten?
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Did it get deleted? Like what happened to it?
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So I think that that's, that's an interesting option.
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But I think like, I don't know. Like, to me.
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That just says, like, it is screams too easy, like it'sit's
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too straightforward. Yeah, like it's too obvious to
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like now thinking about, it's like, oh well, of course,
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naturally. That's where that went.
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Yeah. Okay, I saw improving you
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grabbed out a book. They are for a little bit of a
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quick check. We're what's your working Theory
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right now? Is it the hand?
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So I was just confirming, which hand in the chroniclesvolume one
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they have the artwork of the like primitive humans.
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Stumbling upon a giant silver hand, right?
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And it was his left hand. So obviously this one's the
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right hand from The Cinematic are from the legacies episode.
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I think because I think it's a type of art.
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I don't think it's his hand. I'm going to say is not his
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hand. I'm going to say it's an
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artifact that tier made possibly as a Fail-Safe.
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In case, there was like an uprising or a user being of
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anything of any kind where tear had to come in and kind of take
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control of the Titan Forge that were coming about and also the
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The mogu, the mogu would have been a great example of like a
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race that tear would have come in and been like, hey, y'all
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need to calm down and, and Thanos glove bright, you know,
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kind of thing, right? Because one thing that I noticed
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between that and all of the other Cosmic forces, there's
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there is a type of control that they have over the wielders,
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right? So this basically confirms that
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arcane Has the type of control, the void has a control as well.
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The life I was life was the one where I had to think a little
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bit, but the spores, the mind-controlling spores from dry
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nor is a great example of that. And then death, you know, being
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able to control the souls and dead bodies is like that, that's
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another fellas, fellas, the hardest one.
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Right? Because the control that they
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have is like, Like dominating demons or other fell infused
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possessed minions, right. I was also thinking like the
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temptation of like the hunger, the fell hunger is another way
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to control because it's like you you have to get the the fell to
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stay alive and stay sane and not explode or whatever Parish or
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whatever. But to bring it back I think
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it's just another artifact that tier had in his Channel in case?
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Something were to happen, like a Fail-Safe.
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Okay? I don't think it's his actual,
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and I'm gonna say that. All right, well before I eat,
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just hand it back to you, this gritty Kitty.
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I honestly felt that the fact that the artifact this did that,
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people did not know about it including the other aspects.
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It, it really felt where they're trying to show that even in
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order this entire Paradigm of structure.
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There's a lot of secrets between them and there's more that I'm
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going to talk about with that. But yeah, I don't believe it's
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the actual hand. I hope that answers your
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question Kitty. I'm glad because I don't know.
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I actually don't know what I think about it beyond.
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What why did that exist? And how did he get it?
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You mentioned that you not sure about fell.
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I was actually thinking about how every we know we've got this
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cosmological chart and we know that there's definitely
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motivation for each person each group on the cosmological chart
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to gain full control especially over Mortals.
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And we know that this would be a bad thing.
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We're supposed to believe in Balance.
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It's like sort of standard law but we've seen more and more
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like I was thinking about how seeing this tighten roll lately,
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that's been very about very much about older going too far.
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I like trying to control things. Now, know that in recent or
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interviewed the news has said, with the whole eggs thing.
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It's not he's not controlling the babies with the water.
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It's not that it's not that Sinister, but it's still, he did
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still say, but it's like getting them to align with order.
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So it is still manipulation. It is still form of too much
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control, and we definitely see that in Odin.
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His General approach, is he tends to like, if he can't
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control something, he forces it. Which is like it makes sense
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because he's an order creature. And people they want order and a
11:02
must be frustrating, if you're not getting the order, so you
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just keep pushing until you've got like, But I was thinking
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about previous times. We've seen this through World of
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Warcraft. History, coming from the
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different cosmological charts. And obviously, the first thing I
11:17
thought about was light where for ages, we always thought,
11:20
light was beneficial and benevolent and good.
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And then there was that Legion stuff.
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And then, the, my requests, I'm that sort of gave us this.
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These hints that light can be. It can force the issue, when,
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you know, can use Force to control and then I thought If
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you think about it, this reaches back all the way to, right at
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the beginning of Warcraft, slaw the demon blood.
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The curse of the demon blood is chaos, doing the same thing.
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Chaos is controlling Mortals through some sort of artifact in
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or power and there's like a few a few times throughout the World
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of Warcraft history, where this is a recurring theme.
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It's just for most of it. It's been the canonical e bad
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guys who have been doing it and now we're Are finally seeing the
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good guys kind of do it too and I don't think the Titans are
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being. I don't think the the shade is
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being caused from the Titans on the level of the way that the
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light. We're definitely questioning the
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light now. I think they still want us to
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view. The Titans is generally good
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guys, you know, but I do think there's definitely a push to for
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us to think. No one should have complete
12:34
control. There must be a balance between
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these different Cosmological forces and we're seeing, like, I
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think we're going to see what happens when Titan gets the like
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the other thing is sorry, we just got rid of chaos, so order
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my uniquely powerful now. So I think that's definitely
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something that might come into play.
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Maybe long-term. Yeah, that is that is
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interesting. Now, that now, that so Juris is
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like, taking out of the picture. Like what does, what does the
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pantheon do? Like what is the The what is the
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Titanic Pantheon do and how do they, how do they go about?
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Like keeping themselves from becoming entirely too
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overpowered. Like you mentioned, you
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mentioned the chaos and the first thing that popped into my
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mind, was the power structure with the fell wasn't that chaos
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was controlling everything else or trying to control things.
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But that the power structure within fell was whoever could
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control chaos. The best was was like at the top
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of the And for that. So that was like, like a, I
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think a unique inversion to the power structure that the rest of
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the primordial, Essences, I guess that their power
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structures work. That it's, it's different in
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that. It's not about how the power
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itself, controls things. But how it can be controlled,
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which Is in direct opposition to order which is literally about
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control. I think that the conversation
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about like, oh control and how that each control is actually
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kind of funny because of which, which of them we've seen
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control. And which of them we haven't
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really seen control domination. Magic is like the strictest
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version we've seen so far it doesn't matter what you think
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your entire will and personalities overridden.
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And you are a puppet that is like The most strict form of
14:45
control. We've had seeing the way that
14:48
the school of worked on the track, there wasn't exactly that
14:53
same way. It just gave them a unified
14:56
sense of purpose. It kind of gave them an
14:59
overriding directive, but they still were clutch mates within
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each other. They still had connections to
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each other stronger for some than others.
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It just sort of removed the sent from them and Kind of going
15:15
along the lines of stuff that we have also received with the the
15:21
disc in the new Oldham on. There is this entire thing of
15:26
the life Waters instilling within the dragon flights that
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are born within them. The directives that order wants
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the priorities that order wants them to have and the dragons
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themselves, they have personalities they have Wills of
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Their Own They want to do things but their prerogative Czar
15:48
entirely overrun that they want to do things Titans way orders
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way and that's completely different from like you were
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saying, live with the fell where it almost is that the fell kind
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of removes. Your rationality gives you this
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overriding hungers what it was and it is the control.
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Whoever is the strongest and able to channel that the best.
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The saying, well, What I can get further with you than without
16:18
you so I will follow you but it's almost progressing Lee
16:21
Gould, an ultimate backstabber and all these things within the
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fell. They're like, yeah, you know,
16:27
you longer useful to me, even though we're on the same side.
16:30
So it's just different ways of putting in a list of priorities
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and removing other inhibitions that would stand in the way of
16:39
that. I think that's kind of the more
16:41
subtle control that we're seeing with.
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The glove and with these Waters and with order control right
16:47
now, it is not the light bound where it's like, yeah,
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everybody, we're good with the light and what we saw there.
16:54
But again, it's all levels of control that we are seeing.
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I like the the answer that Steve gave in the that law interview
17:02
where he said, the dragons aren't being directly
17:04
mind-controlled by the water obviously, because we're all
17:08
freaking out, but he he didn't say.
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But he definitely also made a very That they are being
17:15
influenced specifically towards order which is still
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manipulation like, no matter how you look at it, it's still
17:21
dodgy. It's just not as awful as what
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we've seen with the light in certain circumstances.
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Yeah, I would say that's a big part of it.
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Impervium, go ahead. I was going to say, you know,
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talking about the light, one of the things that I had thought
17:40
about with control when looking back.
17:44
Cat Legion. We were talking about that and
17:47
we're talking about Legion specifically, with the light and
17:50
seeing how certain people were. So like enticed by it and the
17:57
promises that it gave and like the one, the one path kind of
18:01
deal, right? I remember like the control with
18:05
Illidan, right? When 10 was literally trying to
18:08
flesh, like flush out the fell within his body and convert it
18:12
into light, magic. It look like From a scars.
18:15
And when she exploded, basically, enter aliens eyes
18:20
went from the gold to the brown. I was almost thinking they're
18:25
like people were like, oh it's the it's the light shining out
18:29
of his eyes or whatever and I was like, could that have
18:31
actually been manipulation from Sera leaving his body?
18:38
And that's why he freaked out, right?
18:40
He's like, dude, you did you ruined everything?
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It's like that's what hat. Like that's kind of what
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happened here with the drakh Thea, right?
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Where they had this control within them and then they
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realize it's gone and now they're like wait, what's going
18:54
on like what's happening? I don't know what's happened,
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it's the same deal. Where turalyon lost his control
19:01
is his, he lost his control and the drag fear losing their
19:05
control as well. I think that ties in perfectly
19:09
with this whole sense of every single cosmology Force.
19:13
Now, has this way of controlling, everything to
19:17
create an order that they want to make.
19:20
And it's talking about live with the balance, like you have to
19:23
have the balance throughout all of these things or else is all
19:26
going to be just blended it like so at this point, my huge
19:31
Theory, here's Theory number one, we're just going to destroy
19:36
all of it and there's Be no more energy, no more no more
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cosmology, no more Titans, no more.
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No more old gods. We're just gonna go into every
19:46
plane of existence and destroyed.
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All there's your balance. It's all yours.
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We did it with Dad 0 ball is gone.
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Yep. Nope, yep.
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There's there's, there's, there's no energy then.
19:58
There's no need to balance everything.
20:00
It's all fine. That's the first one.
20:05
Okay, do it does. Anybody have any far-reaching
20:13
theories will call it theories while far-reaching theories on
20:17
where ultimately the balance will go.
20:19
Let's go to you live. I don't really have any
20:23
far-reaching series. I guess, I guess the natural
20:26
conclusion is that things find a way to balance themselves out?
20:30
Like, I don't, ultimately, I don't think that it's like
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something that our characters will do.
20:34
I think it's, it's Like win win one of these Powers Rises or
20:44
when I guess when one of the one of the powers either Rises or
20:50
Falls the other four I guess kind of fill in the gaps in the
20:59
vacuum, that's created. They're so like what we saw with
21:04
Searchers being imprisoned in the burning Legion and Like
21:08
chaotic energy is being suppressed, I think is what kind
21:15
of allowed death to like get powerful enough to force of
21:21
honest to like break the veil like which is not in direct
21:26
opposition to fell that like they're very close to each
21:29
other. Like like what what is it?
21:33
What is it at the opposite end of sell that?
21:37
Well, Well is order K and so do. Yeah, right.
21:40
Okay, so we didn't see we didn't see order get like a huge power
21:45
Spike. We saw one of the others
21:47
tangentially, get a power Spike. So I think I think in that Like
21:54
in the reality that we're working with, it's not it's not
21:59
so much like it's more like a disc and it's like rotating on
22:04
a, on a plane where all the different points are set around
22:11
the circle, and they're all kind of balancing out that way. but,
22:21
I don't know, I don't know. It seems it seems to me as if
22:27
it's a self-correcting system and that our our influence is
22:34
not as not as profound as I think that we're led to believe
22:40
that it is like we replaced as Mortals were placed at the
22:44
center of it. And that's like all of these
22:46
forces are trying to To control us when in reality they're just
22:54
doing whatever they're going to be doing anyway.
22:56
And we're just stuck in the middle of it and we like we have
23:01
some level of control over over these energies and these Powers.
23:05
But ultimately like what we're able to do with them is a drop
23:09
in the bucket compared to the vastness of what they are.
23:14
So, I don't, I don't think that we have the ability to just
23:19
completely unravel the entire power structure of the Universe.
23:25
I don't know, we came really close to death that one time we
23:28
became very close. True.
23:32
True. But that was just a fall like
23:34
that. We didn't we didn't undo death
23:39
because like the shadowlands still existed.
23:41
We didn't blink the shadowlands, right, right, right.
23:44
So we just Just killed one guy, right?
23:47
We killed the former big guy, right?
23:50
No, we killed the guy that everyone thinks is the Jayla but
23:53
he's not great. Right?
23:55
Exactly. I'm telling you that the Primus
23:59
I'm telling you them. I'm telling you.
24:01
I am one day. I'm gonna go today.
24:05
I told you I don't owe me another drink.
24:10
Let's go guardias me to go. Back to the shadowlands.
24:14
I would be a definite. A good twist to start putting
24:17
together because everybody's already thinking about it, but
24:20
hopefully that's far in the future.
24:22
I do want to say on my have, I would say, I completely disagree
24:27
with you live in that. I think the most dangerous part
24:32
about The Mortals is that we do have so much power to unbalanced
24:36
things everybody. And their grandmother is coming
24:40
after Azeroth. Because as her off, it's the key
24:42
to, like, undoing reality, or whatever.
24:44
And as Art of Azeroth. We act with Azeroth and can tip
24:51
the balance. Like, as we're off is like the
24:53
most powerful Titan ever. This is, this is order.
24:57
But all of the Titans are connected to a different form of
25:04
the entire power structure that we have.
25:06
We've got ones for life, we have ones that deal.
25:10
Well, I mean, Argos being the entire Titan of death was
25:17
infused with the power wasn't actually, but he became the
25:21
power of death which also. Yeah, kind of just a quick
25:24
question. What do we think?
25:26
Argos was originally intended or supposed to be?
25:29
Let's go to you kitty. I've never thought of that
25:33
before. Oh man.
25:34
Yeah, Titan of Prophecy. Titan 5c dancing.
25:41
Um, it makes more sense thinking about it now because he sped up
25:47
the death process for fellow-creatures and stuff like
25:51
that, that he could have been an actual Titan of death.
25:57
Oh, that my head, my head hurts now, let's go.
26:01
Um, But when what he, what could he have been, he could have been
26:07
just the ferryman. He could have been a fairy for
26:09
souls to the afterlife or something.
26:11
I don't know for the Titans, I don't know.
26:13
Okay. Oh my God.
26:14
My head hurts now. Lived, you have any guesses?
26:17
I Because because we do have, we do have Titans for the other
26:25
five, right? Like we have Titan of life.
26:31
That includes our Garrison decide to fell but he willingly
26:35
took that on. Yeah, Bros, he was a war and I
26:38
think that's where it sort of falls apart.
26:40
I think that the Titans while we do have some that are connected
26:44
to life, we don't have a Titan for light.
26:46
We don't have a Titan that was originally meant to be death.
26:49
We don't have Titans that are any of these other forces.
26:53
So why is life so connected with one Titan is the Oddball out
26:57
life seems weirdly connected. All Place.
27:00
I mean, there's that connection with death with Arden wheeled
27:04
and the sisters. They two different Pantheon's
27:08
that their sisters. And then like the other day I
27:12
was reading in the artbook, something about the, the nulls
27:14
who have Decay and I was like what is the care?
27:17
Act's keep forgetting and I was like, it is a death or is it
27:22
care? No, it's a death row is a void
27:25
because You know, both of those have elements of that, sort of
27:30
like, we know that I was thinking of galakrond, and how I
27:33
always thought that was deaths Associated, but now we found out
27:35
that he was the way he was because the void.
27:37
So I was like, what is the K? And someone's like, know it's
27:40
its life Decay is, of course of life.
27:43
So like life is just all over the place.
27:45
So just it's so weird. But I mean they all tend to sort
27:50
of dip in and out of each other. Yeah.
27:54
Thinking about it, like there's not, there's not one for light.
27:56
There is like, I guess they're all of order because naturally,
28:01
their Titan. So that fits but like and
28:05
there's none that it's just strictly order, just like I'm
28:07
order. And this is what I'm going to
28:08
do. Because we're all which I guess
28:10
the closest to that would have been would have been surgery or
28:13
straight like surgeries would have been the, the order one.
28:19
Like as the one that in that embodied, order the most And
28:24
because that's like, part of a story is like, that's what how,
28:27
why it was so affected by seeing the void everywhere throughout
28:31
the cosmos was that he had such a strong sense of order.
28:38
That seeing that there was no no way for him, to course, correct
28:44
for the void being there in like, as prolific as it was
28:50
throughout the Universe. The only conclusion that he
28:52
could come to was, oh, I just have to eradicate the universe.
28:57
I mean, like that's the only way I can fix this.
29:01
So I would say, I would say that he is probably the one that was
29:06
Order which I think says, a lot about the relationship between
29:12
order and fell. But yeah, I I can't, I can't
29:17
really base what I was gonna say off of that now because that
29:20
doesn't like it doesn't track still.
29:23
So I I don't know that he would have been the order of anything
29:29
in particular, just the same way that I like, I don't know what
29:35
Azeroth, like the Titan soul in Azeroth would be of a van, a
29:41
replacement for church areas. Okay.
29:45
So let's pass it over to impervium.
29:48
I think that sargeras like you said sargeras is order, but
29:52
sargeras is the extreme of order, right?
29:56
We're in order to an order to create order.
30:00
Yeah. To establish order you have to
30:03
destroy the thing that's that's causing disorder which is the
30:06
fell and the old gods and basically everything else,
30:10
right? And in turn, he created chaos.
30:14
Ass by doing that he created disorder by by trying to go the
30:21
extreme. I think that anr is the Other
30:25
Extreme, right? What happens when you don't
30:29
control life, it just flourishes to the point where everything
30:35
dies look at dragon or the original dren.
30:39
Or if a grimoire hadn't come by and seen Overgrowth, happening
30:46
with the with the seeds of a and are basically that plan.
30:50
It would have been consumed by life and then ultimately had
30:53
died in the end, right? I think that a, and our is
30:57
needed with the life magic because she is the one who is
31:02
able to cultivate the world souls and make them grow faster,
31:05
and everything because we are, we honestly don't know how long
31:08
it takes for a world soul to grow into maturity and think
31:14
that And our is the one who comes by and helps it grow a
31:17
little like speed the process up, get things going but you
31:25
have to have those two Polar Opposites, right?
31:28
You have to have the one where it's like life is going to
31:30
continue on and the other one is like I'm going to destroy
31:33
everything in order to preserve it, right?
31:36
Well, I think those are two extremes, they are.
31:41
What would you like to say? But aren't the the world cells
31:45
are they? Not are not necessarily Titans?
31:48
Are they like, is it not sort of suggested?
31:52
Now that actually could be whoever gets there.
31:55
First, might be able to claim it.
31:57
That's why the old gods are having a go to Azeroth.
32:00
So I don't know. I don't know if this is actually
32:03
being clarified yet, if they're more blank slates that
32:07
everyone's going after? Yeah.
32:11
We've just been told until now known as rough is a Titan.
32:15
We are considering a table that right sorry, baby.
32:18
And I was like, would have been alive or she had been maybe life
32:23
had already influenced a great deal before the Titans got to
32:27
her or something like that. Yeah.
32:30
Do you any of you recall? The order that the Titans were
32:34
born in like the first Pantheon because that would be a big
32:38
thing if In our was quite early that they discovered her late
32:42
that would fit. Right in, with that sort of
32:45
theory that she was well on her way to becoming part of the, the
32:50
life version of whatever Titans are before they came across.
32:55
Her Andre, ordered her back to something more clothes, but she
32:58
always had that tie. We have definitely seen with the
33:02
infusion of death, that Argus became something unlike other
33:05
Titans and became the Titan of death and that Titans.
33:10
Fall into the fell. And I think just before I hand
33:13
this to you guys, I think that the extreme Where you have
33:18
somebody who is like, okay, everything needs to be
33:20
perfectly. Ordered that falls upon itself
33:23
because when you look at it, you're saying all everything
33:26
needs to be exactly the right order.
33:28
Well, free will will get in the way of that.
33:30
Somebody will step out of line and then what do you do there?
33:32
And then it starts falling apart.
33:33
So they start suppressing free-willed right?
33:37
When you are saying that, everything needs to be one in
33:40
the light. Well then nothing can exist.
33:42
Outside of the light and that caused it causes an issue.
33:46
And And when you are have something where it's like, oh
33:50
life life must be preserved at all cost.
33:53
Well then if one form of life is attacking other form of life,
33:57
that's an issue and that needs to be quelled.
34:00
So I think if you go to any extreme of these, it all sorts
34:03
of falls apart on itself and the balance again, is where we find
34:07
The Mortals in the Mortal realm. But again, I want to pass it to
34:11
any of you who might know and just put up your hand if you do.
34:15
Was he an are one of the earliest, Titans or anr?
34:21
I see. See impervium looking lamentable
34:25
was first. A mantle, was definitely the
34:27
first one and he went her. It says, here in the Chronicles,
34:31
I, he went around and nurtured the souls, it doesn't
34:34
specifically say what the ordering.
34:39
Was that I can that I can see. Yeah, I think the only
34:44
information that we have so far with the history of the Titans
34:49
is that is that he was the first that aman'thul was the first and
34:54
then he awoke the rest of them which makes you think if a man
34:59
Thule was there when they are awoken at had awakened, did he
35:06
willingly let the Life Energy? Like if that's if the Life
35:10
Energy was, was seeping into her and all her stuff while she was
35:14
forming in Amman did a month old?
35:16
No order. Damon through, like kind of
35:19
brush it off as like a oh this isn't going to be a big deal.
35:21
Or did he plan it to happen in order to have that aspect of
35:27
order within the pantheon? And it can very well be that he
35:33
couldn't wherever he whenever he came across it, he couldn't do
35:37
much about it. Much like we have seen with the
35:40
Life Pools in the initial issue that came from galakrond being a
35:45
mutation and unfortunate, filtration, they couldn't
35:49
suddenly change galakrond into an aspect Dragon.
35:53
They then came up with the aspect dragons after that.
35:56
So there this is what I love. When the ambiguities allow for
36:03
these things, it's not-it's not a red car on that eventually
36:09
Deathwing, sorry, rather, at that point, now thalian was just
36:13
like, okay, fine? Like I give Something's Gotta
36:16
Give or we're going to lose and I think that that actually might
36:21
be how we get mirrors. 'And, we Face a unwinnable
36:27
situation and the aspect of times Says the only way I'm
36:31
going to be able to do this is to fall down that path.
36:36
And do you guys think that that is going to happen this
36:39
expansion? Let me pass that to Kitty first.
36:45
I absolutely think we're getting more, has onto the suspension, I
36:49
keep thinking, is he marries under Eddie?
36:54
I honestly think I think Taliesin from Taliesin ever tell
36:59
mentioned that there's motivation that maybe he could.
37:07
The re the way, what if he turns into mirrors are not because of
37:11
the, you know, it's bad or the old gods to trick him.
37:14
But what if he has genuine reason, like a legitimate
37:17
grievance with the Titans, a legitimate complaint.
37:20
One of the Prime lists have a point, and he comes to
37:24
understand that points and agrees.
37:27
I mean his powers have not been fun for him.
37:30
He does not seem to have had a good time as the aspect of time.
37:34
He's been pretty much miserable ever since he saw his own death
37:39
and then we go into this dungeon and we find these law books that
37:44
the whole bunch of stuff about and Ike.
37:46
He knows time backwards. So is it news to him that
37:51
galakrond was actually, it was a man who was a mistake and oopsy
37:58
where they by mistake ably made him what he was or is it like,
38:05
was it just, like, does he know that or is it news to him and if
38:09
it is news to him, is he annoyed to find the South?
38:12
Or does he not care? He doesn't come across as Is
38:14
care in like he seems very Pro Titan pro aspects.
38:18
Every time you see him, but like, if I was him, I'd start
38:22
having questions about the Titans.
38:24
That's, you know, Yeah, I uh I I always feel that when you deal
38:31
with time and you break causality, it becomes this
38:35
impossible question because he in the legacies shorts, is
38:40
looking for an answer, an answer that has been obscured by who
38:45
knows, and I will be asking about that.
38:48
Who knows what's obscuring it? But in order to obscure the
38:51
answer, for somebody who is omnipresent in any point in
38:55
time, you would need to Gertie answer from the moment, it
38:58
happened throughout all time afterwards because what's
39:01
stopping him from going, I'm going to look forward to three
39:04
days and see if I figure out the answer.
39:05
Oh, okay. So his he can't be, he can't be
39:11
all-knowing of every moment in time.
39:13
There has to be some sort of limitation, very real
39:17
limitation, probably more. Now that he's no longer an
39:19
aspect on how much of time. He knows he may see these very
39:24
key moments in time. Which is what we saw with the
39:29
hour of Twilight, which is what we saw with.
39:32
He knows he's going to die. And the heroes are the heroes.
39:35
These five Heroes who may change from run to run, are the ones
39:38
that kill him. But he knows that point in time.
39:42
He doesn't know when he changed in tumors on, and if he knows
39:46
everything between there, he would know murders on would know
39:50
why he changed what he changed. So I think that he has to be
39:54
incredibly Limited in his knowledge.
39:56
Of the time ways and they have to be very obscured in general.
40:00
It's just that when he looks for a particular moment, it's like,
40:03
oh I can't I can't see it and then he can't.
40:07
Look at a relevant moment slightly after that, because of
40:12
it. So, impervium, I'll pass it to
40:14
you. Go ahead.
40:16
I think that was intended by Design from Amman Thule because
40:24
if he was able to see everything, like we like Like
40:27
you had mentioned, he was able to see everything in time with
40:29
no interruption during thing. He could see everything that
40:33
happens and can just pick whatever.
40:35
You know, pick your own a choose-your-own-adventure.
40:37
Basically what it turns into I think a menthol specifically did
40:41
that in order to prevent that from happening.
40:43
So that there would be time set of events that happen within a
40:48
certain order. Huh?
40:51
There you go. It was all planned out, emmental
40:54
knew that more that At nozdormu was going to basically Drive
40:59
himself insane trying to find the actual answer to when he
41:03
turns into more as on and how he can stop that a menthol
41:07
obviously knew all this. He's the he's the Titan of time,
41:11
he knows it. So I think he's allowing this to
41:15
happen. I will say to answer the
41:17
question Moore's on will definitely show up in this
41:20
expansion. And I think more is on is going
41:22
to be the reason that we get crepitus.
41:24
I won't come at us. Can we have chromaticism?
41:26
Since expansion have incredible. He busted out of prison and
41:30
everything will be great. He would be the one to do it.
41:33
Absolutely. That'd be cool.
41:35
Okay. Live, let's pass it to you.
41:39
You ever you ever have like an entire conversation planned out
41:43
in your head and it just like immediately blades that we
41:46
existence the moments are you get called on?
41:48
Yeah. Oh gosh.
41:53
Can you I could come back to you.
41:55
I can get back. Yeah come back to me.
41:57
Okay and perfume, I do not think that anybody that we have met
42:04
has the ability to know all moments in time.
42:08
It can't be granted including you know the pantheon they can't
42:13
like they granted some ability to see these key moments in
42:17
time, right? And the dragonflights into
42:21
Titans can like follow string. Things.
42:24
But you also have to remember that that's not unique to order.
42:27
That's not unique to life. That's not unique to anything.
42:31
Because when you look at the light, it sees one pathway, one
42:37
destiny, and it follows that dogmatically.
42:39
When you look at void and the many Whispers it sees all
42:43
possible Futures and they're all confusing and it just tries to
42:47
work on. Whichever one is manifesting the
42:50
most at a certain time. So all of these Powers have seen
42:53
some Level of Clairvoyance, but none of them can be can say for
42:59
certain that this is what's going to happen because that
43:03
means that Free Will doesn't exist if it was always going to
43:07
happen. So in that way, we are seeing
43:12
the Titans trying to apply that kind of order to seeing time to
43:17
traveling through time. And it is the most hardest for
43:21
them because they would have to think And that one time line
43:25
goes through much like light in my opinion.
43:28
Alright, Liv you ready? I remembered what I was going to
43:31
say so I think that nozdormu chooses when he becomes Marissa
43:42
and I definitely believe that that's going to be that's going
43:46
to be something that we see whether it's, whether it's
43:49
bye-bye, but discordian But you said of like he's got a bone to
43:57
pick with the Titans or there is like some there's some like
44:00
insurmountable power that they're that they're up against
44:04
and it's in a in a moment that if the he doesn't do the thing,
44:08
then they'll die. Then like I think that it's
44:13
going to be that, but I like you mentioned the end times dungeon.
44:18
and, We know that that doesn't come to pass ultimately because
44:25
in that dungeon, what's in the background of that fight, when
44:29
we run, we're killing, whereas on is deathwing's corpse draped,
44:33
over worm rest Temple. We know that that doesn't
44:35
happen. That's how Deathwing dies.
44:37
So the moment that we killed Deathwing, that timeline is now
44:42
not true. It doesn't exist anymore.
44:45
So I don't I don't even think that we're the ones that
44:49
ultimately bring me. Resigned to his end.
44:55
And I think I think what what nozdormu is looking for with,
45:03
with the director of like why he's dragged and breath all out
45:06
of out of stasis isn't Isn't to find like what happened with
45:18
them. But in instead, to glean some
45:21
sort of some sort of inference point to say, okay this makes
45:28
sense as to as to why I would choose to why I would choose to
45:34
to like give myself over to Murray resigned because that
45:39
that is an inevitability, like it is going to be something that
45:42
has to happen. Some point because otherwise,
45:45
without it, the infinite dragonflight never exist.
45:48
In the fact that they exist means that Mraz Aunt exists.
45:53
Okay, I have another question to ask all of you with the
46:00
conversation that we've had been having with these, like extreme
46:03
forces with the prime illest, trying to do stuff.
46:08
Are we the bad guys here? Do we have it wrong?
46:12
Should the are the Willis got something going on and we should
46:16
be listening to them. Let's let's throw this to you in
46:19
Peruvian. Are we the bad guys?
46:22
That's, that's a tale as old as time and definitely without
46:25
floor. Um, It's it mean it comes down
46:31
to morality at that point, right?
46:34
Where it's just like as Titan children Azeroth Ian's our Titan
46:43
beings. Kind of going back to like the
46:47
Blake slate and kind of thing where I feel like Azeroth Ian's
46:51
are blank slates but that's why Mortals are in the very middle
46:56
of the chart. If you look at it because they
46:59
are, you have the affinity for basically anything, right.
47:03
Much like world souls, if if our theory is correct.
47:11
I feel, I mean, it's hard, it's hard to say.
47:13
I will say it's pretty hard to say, because there are obviously
47:17
there are good Arguments for both sides, but at that point,
47:20
are the Primal incarnate, what are they fighting for?
47:23
Are they fighting for preserving Azeroth?
47:27
Are they fighting just to not be controlled by order?
47:31
Like what is their motivation, right?
47:34
That's my question to them, Primal.
47:37
And card is say, answer me this question probably will get
47:40
answered hope. Polly.
47:42
Okay, let's pass it on to Katie. Do you think we're the bad,
47:46
guys? Do you think the prime List have
47:48
some right of it? Well, I have a soft spot for the
47:53
bad guys. Always, I always find myself
47:56
going. Maybe they have a point, so I'm
47:59
definitely I'm doing it again with the promise, and I can see
48:01
myself doing it as. I mean, they're, they're,
48:05
they're influencing babies, you know, that's that's bad.
48:12
I don't think that's actually where the story is going.
48:14
If I'm going to be 100% honest, this the parents are very much
48:18
done in the very every time we engage with them.
48:21
A 3D cartoon bad guy. It's very you fools kind of
48:25
attitude. The we literally see the the
48:29
Proto dragons who, I guess I kind of aligned with the
48:32
parabolas trying to eat eggs in one of the early cutscenes.
48:37
Like I don't think we are supposed to sympathize too much
48:42
with the parameters, which I think is a Pity because I do
48:45
think there's a great story to be explored in how they just
48:51
like the idea that they just want to embrace being who they
48:55
are. Which is Elemental instead of
48:58
being turned into something else, which is the Titan Powers
49:02
was a great story and I do think there's like definitely a huge
49:07
amount of foundation in shadowlands with the Korean in
49:09
the US one for us to still have a reveal that their grievances
49:16
were actually good Grievances and maybe some in the future.
49:22
Maybe we will see some of the promised son are like have the
49:26
same as the Force One, the leaders of the force, women were
49:30
bad and had to die for the most part for the most part, but the
49:33
Force One themselves, who all got sucked into it was sucked
49:37
into it for good reasons. And in the end, the Korean had
49:40
to Change their approach for that reason.
49:43
On the other hand, the aspects themselves claim that what
49:47
happened was the Prime Minister wanted to get rid of the Titans
49:50
completely. Meaning, you're not even the
49:51
aspects could have their Titan cars which is like, that's not
49:54
really very combative. If you need to you need to let
49:58
everyone have what they want. Everyone must be other Elemental
50:02
Titan, if that's what they want you can't really insistent.
50:06
Ours is the only way. So yeah, that's my non-committal
50:12
answer. Impervium.
50:15
You have a something to say I was I was going to say, do we
50:19
know if the Primal incarnate, follow the elemental Lords, they
50:25
do not seem to right now. We've told that they follow the
50:28
path of galakrond, was what they were sort of saying at one
50:32
point. But they haven't really given us
50:33
any further back up. And I don't, I've never seen
50:36
galakrond as Elemental. Especially since he was
50:40
influenced by the old gods, I think, what the, what the
50:46
incarnates are trying to do is say that no, no, no, we
50:49
shouldn't be messed with by any outside force.
50:52
We should be, we should seek our own power and DragonCon should
50:58
be ruling over. Every everything is there a bad
51:02
guy lean but not being influenced by these other
51:07
powers? That's very bad car or clay,
51:11
that's very original night. Boring like where they're like,
51:16
yeah, I'd like we don't need to mess with the fell until they
51:19
kind of lost their way. Yeah, because I was going to
51:22
say, if they were influenced by the elemental Lords, it would
51:28
make more sense that they would be against the Titan.
51:31
Seeing how they don't like the Titans, they literally force
51:34
them into the prison that they're at, right?
51:36
It would makes it would give You so much more cause to be like oh
51:42
their whole thing is they just want to bust the like the
51:44
elemental Lords were like, hey you want to bust out of prison?
51:46
And was like, oh they're gonna bust me out of prison and then
51:48
it becomes primordial astaroth again with the elemental Lords
51:53
on the physical plane and everything that would make way
51:56
more sense but probably not, I don't know.
52:00
Lift good. So it's it.
52:05
I've been intrigued by this and it prompted me to think back to
52:11
the history of like the early days of Azeroth, where the, the
52:18
Primal Lords were like, they were the original inhabiters of
52:22
Azeroth. Like they were the ones that
52:24
control everything and then the old gods came in and the Titans
52:27
came in and then everything, you know, Got blown up and and
52:34
broken down and remade and several times over.
52:38
But I think I think to say to say that the Proto Drake's and
52:44
these primal Primal dragons. They're they're tied in with the
52:56
the elemental Lords and and the elemental powers just because
53:04
like they were one of the first races on Azeroth aside from the
53:08
elemental forces. I think it and I maybe I may be
53:13
entirely wrong on this, but I think somewhere, it's it's
53:17
stated that, the, the the dragons were the, the Proto
53:22
Drake's were like, One of the first like sentient beings on
53:27
Azeroth which I picked again, I could be completely wrong in
53:29
that. I'm just like, I remember that
53:32
from somewhere if I'm wrong. I'm sure.
53:35
Someone will tell me. They're one of the older races.
53:40
It was like, yeah. It was them in the, the trolls I
53:43
think were the first true Leaf might be later, but considering
53:47
we're seeing these Elemental. Giants.
53:53
That were one of their big big components that might have also
53:56
been when the early races to. Yeah.
53:58
So I think, I think that they're, they're tied in with
54:00
the elemental Lords in the sense that they were.
54:04
They were some of the first sum of the first beings on Azeroth
54:10
before. All of these other outside
54:11
forces started coming in and changing, and corrupting things
54:15
to fit their own powers, which is, I think, Think something.
54:24
like something that I think a lot of people forget is that
54:27
like, the, the corruption of now, Therrien is very close to
54:33
the corruption of the Primal, or not, the Primal Lords, the
54:39
elemental Lords where it was, they're just so intertwined in
54:45
the Earth with the planet itself, That the old gods, their
54:52
corruption just kind of like diffused into them over time.
55:00
Just something sent like even even like the exploring Azeroth
55:08
book that just came out the none of the northern when it talks
55:13
about yogg-saron about how even still to this day Yorkshire
55:18
wants blood. Still like wildly affects
55:23
everything that it touches and it´s like seeped into every
55:27
corner of northrend. So like their tie with the Earth
55:33
itself is is such that. Yeah, absolutely there.
55:39
They're going to like kick back against anything that's coming
55:43
into, to want to, to change them in some way to make them fit to
55:49
do something that they're They're not.
55:53
Okay, so I kind of want to jump off of that because that sort of
55:57
leads into my big Theory and I want to get your opinion on
56:01
this. We know that the first boss, the
56:05
rather, the last boss of all told, he incarnates is going to
56:07
be razza, the youngest of the incarnates, because of the
56:11
starting zone, we know that she's on a mission to free, her
56:14
kin. The other three in the one of
56:18
the trailers they speak of one of the names that That normally
56:24
fears above all the other ones, which is a Riddick on, we don't
56:29
know which of the elements Riddick on is aligned with as
56:33
far as I'm aware and you guys can correct me.
56:36
But do we think that that will be the final boss of this
56:43
expansion and it's going to be us versus the primals or
56:46
expansion. Do you think that this expansion
56:49
is going to be swerving where? Because these incarnations Our
56:53
names have been trapped for so long low in the ground and the
56:56
dragon Isles is really close to northrend.
56:59
Do you think we're going to see avoid corrupted versions of
57:04
these dragons? Because In our interview, with
57:10
Alex acts, the author of exploring Azeroth.
57:14
Northrend, they specifically said that one particular thing
57:20
was mandated by blizzard to be put into those books.
57:24
They know what's coming up. This could be a huge swerve and
57:28
people would be saying oh, why were they showing Deathwing and
57:32
his corrupted form? We've seen aspect Dragon
57:36
corrupted, we're going to be going up against these
57:39
incarnates. Are we going to see a true?
57:43
And we've also had them talk about how the water was infected
57:47
by. The old.
57:48
God, specifically, I know specifically that would have
57:51
been I'm blanking here. I apologize.
57:55
Anaconda. Yeah, galakrond and how he
57:58
became monstrous. This seems like the perfect
58:01
storm to be to get new level of that and that become the final
58:08
boss of this expansion or do you think we're getting something
58:10
else? All right, Kitty start us off.
58:13
Okay. So we actually have the models
58:16
of the other Primal incarnate on while head so I can tell you
58:23
what they're affiliated with early.
58:27
Quran is Stone. It's like Stone and fire.
58:31
He's the stone. Scaled VAR enough is the frozen
58:37
heart and it's ice and fire. Iraq is the Blazing and he's
58:41
fire. And if you look at the final map
58:45
of V of the akan at, there's four platforms one that's got
58:49
like different colors on it one. That's blue one.
58:52
That's yellow. One, that's red.
58:54
And those those platforms sort of correspond with these
58:59
products. So I think that's what we're
59:01
going to see on. Do you think we're just going to
59:03
see them as that if one of them transforms into Voyage is
59:09
another story? I'm personally Think the Prime
59:13
Minister aren't associated with the old gods.
59:16
At first, I thought they would be because the elemental
59:18
connection but it was the void energy that was used
59:22
specifically to trap a promised. So I'm That Kind of pushes my
59:28
belief that the parameter is still kind of have a good
59:30
intention well, like have have good motivations somewhere down
59:36
the line because they not being influenced by the old gods.
59:40
They genuinely just want, they're normal.
59:43
No, their elemental powers, just leave them alone, but the old
59:48
gods have to come this expansion.
59:50
Right? There's no way that you can go
59:52
to the dragon Isles and not have the old gods that used to be an
59:55
Old Guard Temple. And there's so many hints all
59:57
over the place. So an Old Guard dragon.
1:00:02
I think it's possible. We could get a resurrected
1:00:05
galakrond. I mean, I would be cool.
1:00:08
Yeah, on that note of galakrond being resurrected that like, one
1:00:14
of the, one of the big things with with wrath, a Lich King was
1:00:21
like in dragonblight like, having to stop that.
1:00:27
I think it's the death point cultists from coming in and
1:00:32
resurrecting. Galakrond and they're like
1:00:39
that's that's one of the one of the the big things with the with
1:00:45
a couple of different void. Cults has been we got to get the
1:00:48
galakrond and like we've only we've only physically stopped
1:00:53
one attempt, it resurrecting Gala crime.
1:00:56
But that that has to be, has to be a huge thing.
1:01:00
Because like they've made they've made like a bunch of
1:01:04
Transformers Temple, which is another another Titan construct,
1:01:12
just as the rest of the rest of the Dragon Isles is a Titan
1:01:16
construct. So the tie the tie is there for
1:01:21
sure for there to be some sort of even even just an attempt to
1:01:28
resurrect galakrond I think has to be on the table.
1:01:33
Okay. And a veeam.
1:01:35
Final boss and or at least. Where do you think we're going
1:01:38
at the end of this? Are y'all ready for bold
1:01:42
prediction? Number two?
1:01:43
He lets you. All right, I think that we will
1:01:47
get galakrond back, but I don't think it's going to be for this
1:01:52
expansion. I think, at the very end, we
1:01:57
will either fight more as on or chromaticism.
1:02:01
I hope it will come out. As I really do, we fight more
1:02:03
zond in his last effort is to resurrect or to bring back
1:02:10
galakrond because we know that he has the power to manipulate
1:02:15
time and all that stuff. Would he be able?
1:02:18
You think he would be able to like, basically Turn Back Time
1:02:24
on galakrond himself to resurrect him?
1:02:29
if he could, if he could that would lead into the next
1:02:34
expansion which everybody's like, it should be a light
1:02:39
expansion because of the good boy, The Golden Boy, turalyon it
1:02:44
would make so much sense for a light versus void expansion.
1:02:50
Where you, you have turalyon with the army of the light
1:02:56
fighting off against the void Dragon, galakrond, I think
1:03:00
that's going to be what happens. Here, the end Wars on resurrects
1:03:04
galakrond leading into the next expansion.
1:03:08
There It Is. Well I've kept you guys here for
1:03:12
the hour even though I had to run off you guys kept it going.
1:03:15
Strong, thank you so much just before we go.
1:03:18
Where can people find you guys? So let's start again with you in
1:03:21
per VM. Where can people find you around
1:03:23
the internet? Y'all can find me on the
1:03:27
Discord. The the bonus Action Discord.
1:03:30
I talked in there on the evil. Wait, there's Lortab.
1:03:33
You can find me on twitch.tv slash a via my stream there from
1:03:37
time to time not a lot lately, that's really it.
1:03:41
I don't really use. I have like a personal Twitter
1:03:43
now that I just don't really use it either, but those are the two
1:03:46
places you can find me mostly, okay, live.
1:03:50
Where can people find you? You can find me.
1:03:53
Of course, in the fastest cord as always Oh God.
1:03:59
Geez. Oh gosh, it .l.
1:04:01
Y / back to. Thank you.
1:04:04
Thank you, thank you, thank you. And while Twitter still exists,
1:04:09
you can find me there at live sling spells, okay, and kitty.
1:04:14
Have you started up a mastodon yet?
1:04:16
Are you still over on Twitter? I am actually a mastodon.
1:04:21
You can find me on Twitter that as discordian Kitty, that's
1:04:25
going to be where that's where I'll be until the site goes down
1:04:28
in flames. Flames also am a student.
1:04:31
I just have to it's just going to Kitty .me dot U k-- for now
1:04:36
that might change and otherwise I am Anwar head, I'm just
1:04:40
kidding. Kidding on while head as well
1:04:41
that I've got a profile page, it's got links and stuff.
1:04:45
Beautiful. As for me you can also find me
1:04:49
online at True Villain, Manny, that's true, without the e.
1:04:53
I'm also part of for Azeroth which we just put out the
1:04:56
Discord earlier and Until next time, guys, may all your hits be
1:05:01
crits.