Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Guest Host Christina P. Kantzavelos interviews Sarah Stasica

Transcript

Guest Host Christina P. Kantzavelos interviews Sarah Stasica · The Trauma Therapist

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Guy McPherson.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Hello, everyone. Welcome back.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: My name is Christina Consablos, and I am the guest
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: host of the Trauma Therapist Podcast by Guy McPherson. And
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: today I'm excited to meet with Sarah Stassica.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Who is the founder of the Medical Trauma Support Organization. Hi, Sarah.
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: Hi, thank you for having me. I'm excited to have
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: this conversation.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, something that we really haven't discussed here
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: is solely medical trauma. And if you don't mind telling
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: listeners or viewers, what is medical trauma?
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: How do we define that?
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So there are kind of very formal definitions about what
• 0:59
  Speaker 5: medical trauma is, but the way that I define it is,
• 1:02
  Speaker 5: did you experience something that was traumatic to you in
• 1:06
  Speaker 5: a medical setting? And so that's really purposely wide, because
• 1:16
  Speaker 5: one thing that I've experienced in running the peer support
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: groups for people who've experienced medical trauma is I will
• 1:22
  Speaker 5: have people ask me, does this qualify for medical trauma?
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: Like, do I qualify to be here?
• 1:28
  Speaker 5: And my question is, did you experience a traumatic event
• 1:31
  Speaker 5: in a medical setting?
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: And they're like, yes. And I'm like, you are welcome
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: to be here.
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  Speaker 5: And, you know, I want to go a little bit,
• 1:39
  Speaker 5: if it's okay, into, for me, trauma in general is
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: the experience that somebody has, right? So you may have
• 1:49
  Speaker 5: two people who had very similar medical events happen. And
• 1:54
  Speaker 5: one person did not experience it as traumatic and the
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: other person did. And so to me, the only person
• 2:00
  Speaker 5: that gets to decide if they experienced medical trauma is
• 2:03
  Speaker 5: that person who had the experience in their body that
• 2:07
  Speaker 5: felt traumatic. So that's how I define medical trauma. And
• 2:13
  Speaker 5: you can imagine that it is really like a very
• 2:16
  Speaker 5: wide spectrum of experiences that people have that are traumatic
• 2:22
  Speaker 5: to them. You know, you have a baby in the NICU,
• 2:26
  Speaker 5: you have a child who maybe was held down for
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: a vaccine and was fighting, right? You think about the
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: nervous system and they're fighting to run or fight and
• 2:36
  Speaker 5: they're being held down.
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  Speaker 4: That can be really traumatic.
• 2:40
  Speaker 5: And then we go to somebody who may have spent
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: a month in the ICU and experienced delirium.
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  Speaker 4: So It's a really wide spectrum.
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: Another really common trauma that I hear about is birth trauma.
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: Experiencing a trauma while you're birthing. A cancer diagnosis can
• 3:00
  Speaker 5: be incredibly traumatic for somebody. Treatment can be traumatic. It's
• 3:05
  Speaker 5: really very wide spectrum of what people experience that feels
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: traumatic to them in their bodies.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Definitely.
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  Speaker 3: And I feel in like both like personal professional level
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: having having gone through chronic illness right sometimes it adds
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: the little t's add up to become big t's right
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: having to deal with you know searching for a diagnosis
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: and being gaslit.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: By the doctor or the clinic or dealing.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: With insurance and pushback you know not being able to
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: get an appointment not being able to get in um
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: someone not listening to your, about your allergies, right? When
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: you get to the, to the ER and not taking,
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: not taking what you're saying seriously, like these things add
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: up in the nervous system.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: That feeling of being dismissed and invalidated is huge. And,
• 4:02
  Speaker 5: and like you shared with chronic illness, it just kind
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: of happens over and over and over until you finally
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: find the care provider that's going to put you differently.
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: But yeah, absolutely. Those experiences add up. And something that's
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: always so interesting to me is somebody will come into
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: the group or be on the podcast and they share
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: an experience that they had that was really scary, right?
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: I think pretty much anyone in that experience would have
• 4:32
  Speaker 5: really been scared, life or.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: Death kind of situations.
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  Speaker 5: But what they often talk about was the relational component.
• 4:39
  Speaker 5: So while they were in that very vulnerable space, somebody
• 4:46
  Speaker 5: was relationally hurtful to them. And that is, that is
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  Speaker 5: what really stands out. And I think that goes to
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: my whole thing about bringing more humanity into healthcare because
• 4:59
  Speaker 5: we're all humans in this healthcare system. And when we're
• 5:02
  Speaker 5: at our most vulnerable, we really need somebody there who's
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: like present and attuned and compassionate, but that, often doesn't
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: happen because the system is draining the care providers, right?
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  Speaker 5: They're not getting what they need from the system. So
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  Speaker 5: it can be really hard for them to show up
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  Speaker 5: in this kind, compassionate way that we really need when
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  Speaker 5: we are at our most vulnerable.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, a thousand percent.
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  Speaker 3: And we're going to get more into that in a bit,
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  Speaker 3: but first I'd love to know how did this How
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: did this call to you, this path?
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  Speaker 2: What got you here?
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  Speaker 4: I'm going to try to sum it down.
• 5:48
  Speaker 5: I'm going to try to keep it short.
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  Speaker 4: There's so much.
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  Speaker 5: So what really started it was when I was pregnant
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  Speaker 5: with my first child, we found out at an ultrasound
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  Speaker 5: that there would be some medical interventions that we would
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: need to do at birth. And so it started there
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  Speaker 5: for me. And I was not in... the trauma world,
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: I didn't have any idea what the emotional impact would
• 6:15
  Speaker 5: be on me and my husband, what the emotional and
• 6:19
  Speaker 5: physical impact would be on my child.
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  Speaker 4: And so the first two.
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  Speaker 5: Years of their life, there were quite a few visits, procedures.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: That created trauma. And I know that now because.
• 6:36
  Speaker 5: Over the years after that, we started to see what
• 6:40
  Speaker 5: I now know were trauma responses. And they, some of
• 6:44
  Speaker 5: them seemed like, I don't, what is happening? Like, why
• 6:47
  Speaker 5: is this bandaid causing this total freak out? I know
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: now because I understand more about trauma.
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  Speaker 4: And so.
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: That we had that experience. And then I experienced a
• 6:59
  Speaker 5: birth trauma after having my first child. And I, about
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: a year after that, I think as part of my
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: like trying to heal and understand, I went and did
• 7:12
  Speaker 5: a doula training and I did the training, not expecting
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: that I would become like a doula for a career,
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: but I fell in love with being with birthing people
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: in these beautiful, intense, challenging times. Um, And the interesting
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: thing while I was doing the doula work is I
• 7:34
  Speaker 5: really started to learn more about advocating in the medical system.
• 7:41
  Speaker 5: And so that was a huge, like really important piece
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  Speaker 5: to my whole journey to get where I am now.
• 7:48
  Speaker 5: And that journey involves becoming a peer specialist. It involved
• 7:52
  Speaker 5: becoming a trauma-informed yoga teacher to learn more about the
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: nervous system and the somatic practices we can do to
• 7:59
  Speaker 5: help ourselves and our family. And then ultimately I went
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: back to school and I got my master's in social work.
• 8:07
  Speaker 5: And it was while I was in that program that
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: I was able to do an independent research project with
• 8:13
  Speaker 5: one of the professors who's like the trauma professor. And
• 8:17
  Speaker 5: I was studying in that project, I was studying childhood
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  Speaker 5: medical trauma and how do we help parents help themselves
• 8:30
  Speaker 5: so they can then help their children through these really
• 8:32
  Speaker 5: kind of challenging medical moments and the aftermath, the emotional
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: mental aftermath that happens after the treatment. And one of
• 8:43
  Speaker 5: the things that I was doing was trying to gather
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  Speaker 5: resources for the parents, right? Like what, who was talking
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: about medical trauma? Who was researching medical trauma? Who's writing
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: about it? And it was like crickets. There were like
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: a couple of people that I found I did not
• 9:00
  Speaker 5: find any medical trauma support groups. And so I decided
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  Speaker 5: to start my own. So that is where this journey,
• 9:09
  Speaker 5: that's a very abbreviated, um, you know, description of the
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: journey that's led me here and through the peer support groups,
• 9:17
  Speaker 5: which I love, I love them. I love the people
• 9:21
  Speaker 5: that are drawn to them. You know, it's, I've just,
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  Speaker 5: I've learned so much more, right. I learned so much
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  Speaker 5: more than I did through my own journey and through
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: doing the research.
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  Speaker 4: It's like, and so I've.
• 9:32
  Speaker 5: Become even more passionate about it. And, you know, one
• 9:36
  Speaker 5: thing you and I have talked about was, um, before
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: we started recording, but one thing we talked about, you know,
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: the ICU and the experiences people have in the ICU
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: and the experiences they have when they get home. And, um,
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  Speaker 5: so I've, I've learned so much about that from all
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: these amazing people, these survivors and clinicians who are working
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: with survivors to help them. as they are navigating post-intensive
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  Speaker 5: care syndrome.
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  Speaker 4: So it's really.
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  Speaker 5: Been like this, you know, 15 year, 15 and a
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: half year journey for me that's gotten me to where
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  Speaker 5: I am at this moment.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So it's so beautiful how you've really turned this into a,
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  Speaker 3: And I think also so often when we're talking about
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  Speaker 3: medical trauma, we're just talking about the patient, right, the
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: client in which it's being or who's being affected. We
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: don't discuss the parents or the caregivers or those around
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  Speaker 3: them and their secondary trauma and witnessing their child or
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: their loved one, you know, suffer essentially. And I think
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  Speaker 3: it's important to talk about that and how the caregivers
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  Speaker 3: are affected.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Absolutely. Absolutely.
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  Speaker 5: I think that's so important, whether you're, you know, you're
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: caregiving for a parent, you're caregiving for a loved one
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  Speaker 5: who is an adult or you're caregiving for your children,
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  Speaker 5: you know, for the caregivers, it's important for people to like,
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  Speaker 5: recognize like there's terror. Like for my child, I was so,
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  Speaker 5: I was scared. I was really scared. And then on
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  Speaker 5: top of that, you're seeing your child in pain. And
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  Speaker 5: you're then you're questioning, like, is this should I have
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: done this? Is this the right thing to do? Because
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  Speaker 5: I've brought my child to this medical appointment and they're
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: in pain. And so there's just so much to it.
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  Speaker 5: And I think, you know, I've talked to people who
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: are caregiving for the older parents and and they're just
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: seeing like these end of life things that are happening
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: and they're questioning. Did they really need to happen because
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: of the they're traumatic?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. they're traumatic for my parent and my parent is
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: at the end of their life.
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  Speaker 5: So it's really challenging to be the caregiver as well
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  Speaker 5: and to witness it. And so that's why one of
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: the things that I was working on in this project
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  Speaker 5: I did in my program was to help educate parents
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  Speaker 5: about their own.
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  Speaker 4: Needs as caregivers.
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  Speaker 5: Because I think it is crucial for the parents to
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  Speaker 5: first of all, have just kind of a basic understanding
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: of the nervous system.
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  Speaker 4: Like you don't need to know all the words or
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: get deeply into the clinical words for it.
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  Speaker 5: But just to understand what's happening in your own system
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: and what's happening in your kid's system. It changes everything
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: when you start to think of it as, Hey, we're
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: humans with this nervous system. And it makes a lot
• 12:37
  Speaker 5: of sense that my heart is pounding, that my hands
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: are sweaty. Um, and so you have more compassion for
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: yourself and then you can start to do things that
• 12:46
  Speaker 5: can help support you in it and support your nervous
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: system in it. And then you're better able to, to
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: be at a way for your child to regulate themselves
• 12:56
  Speaker 5: through co-regulation with you. So I think that's a really
• 13:00
  Speaker 5: important piece to the whole medical trauma conversation.
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: Completely caregivers need, need support, need that, that level of guidance.
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  Speaker 2: And as you said, co-regulation.
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  Speaker 3: And I would say a portion of those I see are,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: are parents or children of parents who have some form
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: of chronic illness or some kind of disease where it's
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: difficult for them to find a therapist, let's just say
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: who can, who can understand or relate to that specifically.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Cause it is so, it is so, it is so specific.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: And I'm wondering for, for those tuning in, you know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: what are some signs that someone's experiencing medical trauma or
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: even secondary medical trauma?
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: Well, you know, I think one, one way is you
• 13:50
  Speaker 5: feel different, right? You know, something has changed. You feel different.
• 13:56
  Speaker 5: Life feels scarier. It's harder to access those old feelings
• 14:01
  Speaker 5: of joy and connection that you did before. Um, nightmares,
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: like a lot of times after we've experienced medical traumas,
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: it really impacts our sleep.
• 14:13
  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 5: And it impacts our sleep for a couple of different reasons,
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  Speaker 5: but one is nightmares, right? You have nightmares or you
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: wake up in a panic attack. It's really scary to
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: want to go back to sleep because you're like, if
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: I go back to sleep, I might wake up with
• 14:27
  Speaker 5: a panic attack.
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: Another thing to go back to the.
• 14:30
  Speaker 5: Nervous system is when we've experienced trauma, whether we've witnessed trauma,
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: we've experienced in our own bodies is our nervous system gets.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: More hypervigilant, right?
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  Speaker 5: It's a beautiful way that our body tries to keep
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: us safe and alive, but we do become a little
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: bit more sensitive to looking for danger. And so that
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: feeling of hypervigilance, you know, constantly being on the lookout
• 14:56
  Speaker 5: for danger in a way that you didn't feel before.
• 15:00
  Speaker 5: is another indication. Some people may feel like more depressed,
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: more kind of like shut down. Another thing that is
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: really common with medical trauma is that you want to
• 15:14
  Speaker 5: avoid things, right? So after experiencing a really stressful medical event,
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: you may be like, I am not walking back into
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: that hospital. I will not walk back into a doctor's office.
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: Oftentimes it is also like impact dentist visits. So avoidance
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: is a big one. And in our peer group, we
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: were talking about how sometimes it can feel like your
• 15:39
  Speaker 5: body is essentially saying to you, don't go back or
• 15:42
  Speaker 5: you are walking to your death. It's that feeling of
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: like walking to something that will kill you.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: So those are like a few of the things that
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: people experience.
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: And, you know, I definitely think that there are universal
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: human responses to medical trauma. Also, we each might have
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: some that feel a little bit unique to us as well.
• 16:05
  Speaker 5: So if you have noticed a change in yourself after
• 16:10
  Speaker 5: a medical experience, that's oftentimes an indication that it was
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: pretty stressful or traumatic for you.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: And I feel like it's, it's avoidance or there's like this,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: this visceral trigger, if you will, when you discuss anything
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: related to medical.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Care, right?
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: Just, you just, you see somebody in scrubs, you know,
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: you see someone in scrubs, it could just out at
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: the grocery store, maybe they're shopping after their shift ended
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: and it just kind of makes your whole body.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Clinch up, you know, that's, that can be really common,
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: I said a Band-Aid for a child could be a
• 16:53
  Speaker 5: trigger because maybe something about the stickiness reminds them of
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: what they went through in the hospital. Smells are huge, right?
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: The smell is so powerful. And so for me, there
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: is a particular soap smell that I remember from the hospital.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: I know which one you're talking about. I can feel
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: my body clenched just thinking about it.
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: And so things like that. I mean, that's like a
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: perfect example, right? Of you smell something and your whole
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: body clenches up. Our bodies really remember. I do also,
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: I think it's so important for us to also say
• 17:36
  Speaker 5: that we can shift things, right? It doesn't mean that
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: we're never going to have a nightmare. We're never going
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: to remember what happened to us, but over time we
• 17:47
  Speaker 5: can actually make little shifts so that the response isn't
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: quite as big. And we are able to like have
• 17:56
  Speaker 5: practices and start to call in support and advocate for
• 17:59
  Speaker 5: ourselves so that walking into a medical setting isn't quite
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: as scary. It doesn't necessarily feel like we're walking to
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: our death anymore.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: It might feel like, I don't want to go. I
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: don't want to go.
• 18:12
  Speaker 5: But that's, you know, kind of part of that journey,
• 18:16
  Speaker 5: you can start to see some changes, the recovery journey
• 18:19
  Speaker 5: from medical trauma.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: I get to, and I think like you, I get
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: to see it on a regular basis. So if you're
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: tuning in, you're like, is this the rest of my life?
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be. I think with the right
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: level of support and also being seen as by doctors
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: who believe you, who you can trust, who you feel like, yeah,
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: this person has my back, truly can make all of
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: the difference as you continue to process and get your
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: nervous system into a more flexible state. And I'm sure
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: you've seen a shift in yourself with the work you've
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: probably done.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: I think it's probably one of the reasons I am
• 19:03
  Speaker 5: so passionate about this is because of the shift I've
• 19:07
  Speaker 5: seen in my own body and in my own nervous system.
• 19:10
  Speaker 5: And I've also seen it in the clients I'm working
• 19:13
  Speaker 5: with as a therapist. And we're talking about it in
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: peer groups. And something that I just think is so
• 19:21
  Speaker 5: beautiful that often comes up in peer groups as part
• 19:24
  Speaker 5: of this recovery path is people.
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: Starting to want to step back into the system to
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: help other people. Yes.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: And it's so beautiful. It's so healing.
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: Like you said, finding a care provider that's compassionate is
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: a really healing step. So is that step of starting
• 19:47
  Speaker 5: to advocate for other people. And we have within our
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: peer group, we have so many people that are putting
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: their own spin on how they're advocating for other people.
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: They may be talking to their local hospital about making
• 20:01
  Speaker 5: changes or writing a book or speaking out, you know,
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: going and doing speaking engagements just to really spread the word.
• 20:10
  Speaker 5: But I want to go back to what you said
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: about the compassionate healthcare workers as well, because I think
• 20:17
  Speaker 5: sometimes when people hear medical trauma, they think that you
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: like hate.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Medical providers, right?
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: If you're talking about medical trauma and that is absolutely
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: not true, right? They're there are many people who have
• 20:32
  Speaker 5: been harmed. I want to acknowledge that there are people
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: who have been harmed in medical settings.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: We know this.
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: And also there are some of the most compassionate, loving
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: and kind people working in the medical system. And I've
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: had some of them on my podcast and I've had
• 20:51
  Speaker 5: doctors and nurses and I, I, you know, I think
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: oftentimes they don't actually understand the impact that they have
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: on their patients by showing up as compassionately as they are.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: And I try to tell them, I'm like.
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: You're not only creating an experience for this patient in
• 21:14
  Speaker 5: this moment, but you are actually helping them heal from
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: past medical trauma. And so I just think that is
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: so important. And I think it's so important for people
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: to keep looking until they find that care provider.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: And I know it can be so discouraging.
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: Sometimes we need to take a break and we need
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: to say, I need a break before I look for
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: that care provider. But it is so healing when it happens,
• 21:45
  Speaker 5: when you find them.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: There's a quote that healing happens when someone listens to you, right?
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: And I know I went through it on my own.
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: Healing journey when it took me so long to find
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: the right care providers. But when I did, it really made.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: A huge difference.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: And again, I witnessed that in my day to day.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: And you deserve anyone tuning in. You deserve or your
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: clients deserve to find the right provider. We're allowed to
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: shop for our practitioners until our body goes, yes. this is,
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: this is the person I desire to work with.
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: I love the way you said that and tell our
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: body like, yeah, our body does know.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: It's so, it's so, so does our bodies are so
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: intelligent and really amazing. And for, for those tuning in
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: who are like, Hey, perhaps I've experienced this and, or
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: I know someone else who has, What are the next steps?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: What do I do next?
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: So I think, well, first of all, the first step
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: is becoming aware, right? And that's what we're talking about
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: right now. So anybody listening to this who wasn't aware
• 23:05
  Speaker 5: of medical trauma, this is the first step is to
• 23:09
  Speaker 5: become aware. I think that the next step is to
• 23:13
  Speaker 5: find support and support can look like a lot of
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: different things. It can look like a therapist, right? It
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: can look like, and honestly, I love layers of support.
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: So I love it when we can have layers. We
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: can have a therapist. We can find a support group.
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: You know, there are a lot of support groups out there.
• 23:32
  Speaker 5: I run a support group, you know, for anyone who's
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: experienced medical trauma. But there are support groups specific to PICS,
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: which is post-intensive care syndrome. You know, there are support
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: groups specific to birth trauma. I know that there are
• 23:46
  Speaker 5: chronic illness and chronic pain support groups.
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: You may run one.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: I knew that you did that work as a therapist.
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: I wasn't sure if you had a group.
• 23:56
  Speaker 5: So, so really finding that support, whether it's a therapist
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: and or a peer group and even, you know, within
• 24:04
  Speaker 5: your community, you may be able to start your own
• 24:07
  Speaker 5: support group.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: And I've had some.
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: People on my podcast that have started support groups in
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: their areas. And so, you know, a lot of support
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: groups are virtual and, But then there are some people
• 24:18
  Speaker 5: starting support groups in the cities where they live.
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: And that's beautiful too.
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: So I think support is step two, right? Step one
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: is awareness to even realize like, oh, there is a
• 24:32
  Speaker 5: name for this change that has happened to me. And
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: step two is to find support for it. And then
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: of course, I'm going to have to say nervous system
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: education is, Is just life-changing.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: I'm huge on it.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: I'm... It's so, so important to get that nervous system
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: in a flexible, out of survival, out of fight or
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: flight or freeze or fawning response.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: So.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: I know your website has quite a few different resources.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: Would you like to speak to them and your offerings
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: and so forth?
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: I will. Yes, I would love to. Thank you.
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: So my website is medicaltraumasupport.com or.
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: Org.
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: Either way will take you to my website. And I
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: have a lot of resources, right? I have a lot
• 25:30
  Speaker 5: of resources there for different types of medical trauma and
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: then kind of the umbrella of medical trauma. you can
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: go there and you can read about it and I,
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: you will probably read things and think, wow, yes, this is.
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: What I've experienced.
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: Um, I also have a podcast called the medical trauma
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: support podcast where I bring guests on. Um, they are,
• 25:55
  Speaker 5: you know, people who have experienced medical trauma themselves. Um,
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: I have clinicians on, I have therapists, I have, um, doctors, nurses, um,
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: So that is another resource that is free and available
• 26:09
  Speaker 5: to anyone. I do have some nervous system practices on
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: my YouTube channel, which everything is under medical trauma support.
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: So my Instagram is medical trauma support. My TikTok, which
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: is a newer one I'm on, they're all under medical
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: trauma support.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: So you can find a lot of resources there.
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: And then one of the things that I offer is
• 26:33
  Speaker 5: a community for people who've experienced medical trauma. And that
• 26:37
  Speaker 5: is called the Medical Trauma Support Circle. So within that
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: community is where we have peer groups. We have soothing
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: yoga sessions. We have community conversations where we bring people
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: in to come and speak to our community.
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: There's a lot there.
• 26:54
  Speaker 5: And I also have a course for people that are like,
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: I want some more information, but I'm not sure that I'm.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: Ready for a group yet.
• 27:03
  Speaker 5: That's another option is a course, but I do have
• 27:05
  Speaker 5: to say the groups. There's, and the people that are
• 27:10
  Speaker 5: drawn to this community are so kind and compassionate and supportive.
• 27:17
  Speaker 5: And so even if you are kind of scared to
• 27:19
  Speaker 5: start a group, there is not an expectation in our
• 27:22
  Speaker 5: peer groups that you have to share your story. sometimes
• 27:26
  Speaker 5: people come in and they just want to listen and
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: see that they are not alone in it. And that feels,
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: I think a little bit easier for somebody to step
• 27:33
  Speaker 5: into a group to know that they don't have to
• 27:36
  Speaker 5: come in and share their story. They can just be
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: with others. So I hope I listed all the resources.
• 27:44
  Speaker 5: There may be more that I've forgotten, but you can
• 27:47
  Speaker 5: start at my website and find a lot there.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: No, you have, it's yeah. I recommend visiting the website.
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: To anyone tuning in and, and remembering to like, just
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: like a provider, like it can take a moment to find,
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: to find the right community too.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: That's yes. So ensuring that your body's going, yes, this is,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: this is it. I'm excited. And like you said, you.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: Don't necessarily have to, to share or feel forced to do,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: to do anything.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: You can tiptoe.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: That's what I, that's what I like about how your
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: approach is so gentle.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Any phase you're in is welcome.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Yeah. Yes.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: I'm like trauma. Let's go slowly and gently. Slowly.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: It's so true.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: And I, and I do, and I wholeheartedly believe that
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: we heal in community and yeah, it's, it's very powerful,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: especially as women and what we know about our nervous
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: systems now.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: Right. Yeah.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: That co-regulation piece is vital. So yeah. Thank you.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, really thank you for, the work that you're
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: doing in this, in our community. And I'm wondering if
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: there's anything you'd like to leave with those who are
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: here with us today.
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: Yes, I would.
• 29:09
  Speaker 5: I think number one is you're not alone. You know,
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: you're not the only person feeling this. It can feel
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: so isolating, but you are not alone. And so I
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: think finding your community, like you said, we heal in community.
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: So I think that's really the biggest thing for me
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: is to find that community where you don't feel isolated,
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: you don't feel.
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: Alone in it anymore. And it is such.
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: A beautiful way to start your own journey toward recovery
• 29:36
  Speaker 5: and healing.
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: Because that is that is possible.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: I think that's the other thing too, is you're not
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: alone and it is possible to.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Start to feel better.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: Say that all the time. Amen.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Amen. Amen.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Sarah, thank you so much for being on here today.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: And again, thank you for all the work you do.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It was
• 29:59
  Speaker 4: so good to talk to you. Thank you.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: And thank you to all who tuned in.