Latest / GH Connects Lounge / Robert Earnshaw Ep2: I Went to Play Football but Ended Up in a War

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Robert Earnshaw Ep2: I Went to Play Football but Ended Up in a War · GH Connects Lounge

• 0:05
  Rob Earnshaw, over 500 appearances as a professional footballer, some assaulted in six countries.
• 0:12
  But before any of that, I want to go right back to the start.
• 0:16
  Born in Zambia, spent part of your childhood in Malawi before moving to South Wales at the age of nine.
• 0:22
  Do you remember your life before the move?
• 0:24
  First of all, thanks for having me.
• 0:26
  I'm looking forward to having this conversation with you.
• 0:30
  I've heard big things.
• 0:31
  You're an influencer now.
• 0:35
  Um, yeah, do you know what?
• 0:37
  Um, I, I've had the, the most colorful life and the way I break it down is, uh, you know, my life is, is kind of, I feel like I've lived three lives.
• 0:48
  Um, yeah, I do remember, um, my young days, uh, I was born in Zambia.
• 0:55
  Uh, my mom, Zambian, my dad was actually from, uh, a town, not far from Manchester, actually, uh, Todd, Todd modern.
• 1:03
  I hope I'm saying that right.
• 1:04
  Todd modern.
• 1:06
  Um, so he's, uh, English, um, my mom's Zambian and, uh, he moved to Zambia, met my mom and, um, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
• 1:16
  you know, five kids later, you know, here we are.
• 1:21
  But yeah, I remember my young days, my early days, because, you know, I think being born in Zambia, you grow up differently.
• 1:31
  And that's the thing with me is everything is different.
• 1:36
  Everything is unconventional, including my life.
• 1:40
  So I was born in Zambia.
• 1:43
  I grew up in Zambia.
• 1:45
  And then I think when I was about five, we moved to Malawi.
• 1:52
  I have really fond and quite sharp memories of Zambia, actually, like before I was five, before we moved to Malawi.
• 2:02
  I remember my mom playing football.
• 2:03
  She was boxing as well.
• 2:05
  My dad was a manager of a coal mine.
• 2:07
  My uncles and aunties and...
• 2:13
  us being kids just running around barefoot, you know, so many things.
• 2:17
  I remember my mom playing football and I remember she broke her leg.
• 2:24
  I remember the whole process.
• 2:25
  We had to go home.
• 2:26
  She broke her leg, had to go to hospital.
• 2:29
  So it's interesting that I remember so sharply, like so many things.
• 2:35
  And then we moved to Malawi.
• 2:36
  Malawi was when, you know, at this time I'm five, six, up until I was nine.
• 2:43
  And when I was, um, when I was in Malawi, you, you, you, obviously you're a little bit bigger as a kid and you start to learn things.
• 2:50
  You're aware, you're, you know, you're learning lots, so many different things.
• 2:54
  In Zambia, um, I was already speaking English because of my dad, uh, but then Bemba's the language.
• 3:02
  Uh, and then we moved to Malawi and there's a couple of different dialects, uh, of the languages there.
• 3:07
  Um, so you learn them.
• 3:08
  So, um, yeah.
• 3:10
  And then after that, then I'm, uh, you know, there's things like schools and, uh, learning, making friends.
• 3:19
  Uh, so yeah.
• 3:21
  Lots of really amazing memories, including when I was six, I actually, I was put in a boarding school.
• 3:30
  So I went to boarding school, me and my sister Joanne, we went to a boarding school for two years.
• 3:36
  So from six until eight, I was in a boarding school.
• 3:40
  And
• 3:41
  The crazy thing is you talk about colorful life.
• 3:45
  So the crazy thing I always say about the boarding school we're in, I mean, imagine you're six years old and you're away from your family for, for two years.
• 3:53
  And, but when we used to go back, so it was a completely different town.
• 3:56
  It's about three, four hours away.
• 3:59
  Um,
• 3:59
  Um, and there's times where we used to take a flight, uh, over and a flight back, uh, because the, the, the time we come back on a Friday and have to go back Sunday.
• 4:11
  And if we spend, you know, half the day traveling is it's less time with the family.
• 4:15
  So there was sometimes my dad was friends with a, with a, with a pilot and he's, he used to, uh, take us back and forth.
• 4:22
  So, uh.
• 4:24
  um crazy that we went to school on the plane and came back yeah i mean it was actually my next question was it was going to be i read up online yeah before this before this conversation that you took a flight yeah to school i was going to ask what's a normal week to you at this point
• 4:39
  So interesting.
• 4:40
  So when I was in Malawi, so I'm going to boarding school.
• 4:42
  A normal week would be we'll come back on a Friday.
• 4:46
  And sometimes you'll be driving and sometimes it'll be a flight.
• 4:51
  So we fly back closer to the family home where the rest of like my mom, dad and brothers and sisters were.
• 4:59
  And we'd come back on a Sunday evening.
• 5:03
  We'd get on the flight again, go back.
• 5:06
  to the town that we used to go to.
• 5:10
  It was in Blantyre, St. Andrew's boarding school.
• 5:14
  It was an international school, and that's why we went there.
• 5:17
  And my dad wanted us to have good education, so he sent us there for two years.
• 5:22
  But it's...
• 5:25
  That was a kind of a week.
• 5:27
  Then we go to school for the week.
• 5:29
  And then on the next Friday, we'll, we'll come back.
• 5:32
  Uh, there was times where we, we stayed there and we didn't go back home and those were tough.
• 5:37
  Yeah.
• 5:37
  Those were hard because I'm six years old and, um,
• 5:41
  And I'm thinking, all right, yeah, I won't be able to go back home.
• 5:45
  And all the other kids used to go back home.
• 5:47
  So either they lived nearby, they go back home, or they go back to wherever city that they were from.
• 5:53
  And there was times that was difficult to stay in a boarding school.
• 5:57
  And probably there's two or three of us in a big hall.
• 6:02
  The way to imagine it, it was kind of like how you'd imagine in films, you see a big
• 6:09
  kind of dorm and there's about, you know, 20 beds, one side, 20 beds, the other side.
• 6:15
  Um, and, uh, you know, bathrooms, kitchens, um, and then we, we all had, um, our own beds and then, you know, it was, it was so interesting.
• 6:28
  It was crazy because, um,
• 6:30
  We'd go to school, but part of school was learning the disciplines, learning how to wash up, clean up.
• 6:38
  Breakfast is so-and-so time.
• 6:41
  Lunch is so-and-so time.
• 6:43
  Go back to your beds, get ready for school, go brush your teeth.
• 6:47
  So all these little things we have to do by ourselves.
• 6:51
  And that was...
• 6:52
  It was hard, but at the same time it taught me so much.
• 6:59
  And maybe a big core of mine is being able to just self manage, self, what's the word, you know, be by myself also.
• 7:10
  Yeah, look after yourself.
• 7:11
  Yeah, look after myself.
• 7:14
  And manage things by myself.
• 7:16
  So I've done that a lot in my life, including a football career.
• 7:21
  I tried to get there.
• 7:22
  But that was kind of a normal week of, you know, we would go to school, finish school, go back to the boarding dormitory.
• 7:32
  Then we'll have dinner, we'll have to brush our teeth, have to clean up.
• 7:39
  Everything that was looking after the place was our responsibility also.
• 7:44
  But it was part of teaching us how to be disciplined, how to grow up, how to take care of ourselves.
• 7:52
  And that was a normal week.
• 7:54
  Did it feel normal to you?
• 7:56
  Yeah, it was normal.
• 7:57
  Yeah.
• 7:57
  It felt normal.
• 7:58
  Now, as I grow up and I tell stories and I tell, you know, some of the, um, the stories of, you know, doing, you know, going to school like that.
• 8:09
  There, yeah.
• 8:09
  Then people are like, really?
• 8:11
  What?
• 8:13
  Um, including like, um, the, the one that everybody goes nuts about is, uh, so in our school, so it was a boarding school and there was classrooms and, um, it was kind of like a big square and in, and it was kind of like a school, but it was also like a farm, uh, attached to it.
• 8:33
  And in the middle of our school, our school pet was a crocodile.
• 8:41
  It's true.
• 8:42
  So if you can imagine in a big square, there's buildings on the side and each one is, you know, classroom.
• 8:49
  And this is our school, right?
• 8:51
  And in the middle of the school was this big pen of where they kept the crocodile.
• 9:00
  And the crocodile...
• 9:01
  Every day we used to get up, come out of our classrooms and obviously go and play and break times, lunch times.
• 9:08
  We'd go and play, but we'd go and play and stare at the crocodile.
• 9:13
  Just in the middle.
• 9:14
  Just in the middle of the school.
• 9:16
  So we could see it.
• 9:18
  It was part of the school.
• 9:20
  Uh, and they took care of it.
• 9:22
  And the, obviously there was somebody there taking care of it.
• 9:24
  And, uh, but this was part of our school.
• 9:26
  This was where we, we, we were, and we'd go to class.
• 9:31
  We finished, we'd come back and it's, it's lunchtime.
• 9:33
  It's break time.
• 9:34
  We'd go, of course, you know, if you're six years old and there's a big crocodile there, you're going to go see and do stuff and I want to see.
• 9:41
  So we'd go.
• 9:43
  And I remember.
• 9:43
  Uh,
• 9:44
  Uh, so many times crocodiles used to just kind of not do much, but they're there big, you know, dinosaur, just, just there in front of you.
• 9:55
  And, and it's powerful to look at, uh, but it didn't do much.
• 9:58
  So we used to, I, uh, remember we used to go and like pick up all the stones and we used to throw things at it when we throw things at it, it'll move.
• 10:06
  So it would open its mouth and, and, and react.
• 10:10
  Yeah.
• 10:11
  No, at six years old.
• 10:13
  That's what we used to do.
• 10:13
  Uh, but that's part of our normal week that we, we, we, we used to do.
• 10:19
  Um, and yeah, it was, uh, for us, it was normal for us.
• 10:24
  It was just, you know, this is the school I go to.
• 10:27
  This is what we do.
• 10:28
  This, you know, we go and sleep here.
• 10:29
  We go to class here and we go and, uh, play with the crocodile.
• 10:35
  That was a normal week.
• 10:37
  Yeah.
• 10:37
  I mean, to me, being brought up in the UK, that sounds insane.
• 10:41
  Right?
• 10:42
  It is insane.
• 10:44
  It is insane.
• 10:45
  It's cultures.
• 10:46
  Yeah.
• 10:46
  Yeah.
• 10:47
  And do you know what?
• 10:48
  It was just, it was normal, but I'm so glad it was like that.
• 10:54
  Nothing bad ever happened.
• 10:57
  Everything was taken care of.
• 10:58
  You had somebody who specifically for the crocodiles looked after the farms, the teachers and, um,
• 11:06
  the the people that used to look after us in uh where we were kind of uh we slept day to day so everybody was kind of taking care of their own jobs but um how amazing it is uh you know when when you're six years old and you gotta you gotta crocodile in your school yeah i bet and so what about football then so obviously you had all this going on as well
• 11:30
  Who was your football influence?
• 11:31
  I know you mentioned your mom played football, but did you have anyone else?
• 11:35
  What was your dad like?
• 11:37
  My dad passed away when I was nine.
• 11:41
  And before that, at times he was very, very quiet.
• 11:45
  Very much, he liked his own space.
• 11:49
  He liked his own calm.
• 11:50
  Used to go to work, worked very hard.
• 11:53
  And then there was times where he wouldn't say a lot.
• 11:56
  Uh, he was very, there was times he was very quiet and then there's times where you'd speak a lot.
• 12:01
  He wasn't, I mean, he wasn't a football player.
• 12:03
  He wasn't, you know, I can't remember one time where we kicked the ball.
• 12:07
  Um, he used to let me go and he'll watch.
• 12:10
  Um, and, uh, the, the, the memories I have of my dad was always, he's kind of in the background and he's watching.
• 12:17
  Um.
• 12:18
  And that's the also powerful at the same time.
• 12:21
  But that's what I remember.
• 12:24
  But it was my mom.
• 12:25
  My mom's the one that especially now, I like to credit her a lot because she
• 12:33
  You don't think about it when you're younger, but then after you're kind of like, ah, okay, that connects.
• 12:40
  But my mom used to love football.
• 12:42
  My mom used to also love boxing.
• 12:45
  And so my second cousin is a guy called Kalusha Bualia.
• 12:50
  If you don't know Kalusha Bualia, Kalusha Bualia was probably regarded as the best Zambian player ever.
• 12:57
  For context, I think he was 12th in the Ballon d'Or in like 92, 93.
• 13:04
  African player of the year.
• 13:07
  King Kalusha, they call him.
• 13:09
  And he was the one that made it to Europe.
• 13:13
  Yeah.
• 13:14
  My mom loved football, always wanted to play football, was never allowed to play football from her dad, my grandfather, and didn't want her to play sports, didn't want her to play football.
• 13:27
  But as the rebel that she is, she had to go.
• 13:31
  So she used to sneak off and play football.
• 13:34
  She used to sneak off and go boxing.
• 13:38
  And I guess I get it from there and from her side of...
• 13:43
  having this love of football.
• 13:45
  And like I said, I used to, I remember going to watch.
• 13:48
  And when she met my dad, my dad was the one who really said, no, go play, go box, go do the things that you love to do.
• 13:56
  And I think because of that, I was a kid watching and watching,
• 14:01
  But that's the interesting thing is I never started playing football until I moved years and years later to Wales.
• 14:09
  Now there's a big gap in the middle, right?
• 14:10
  So it's not a traditional, oh, your mom loves to play football.
• 14:14
  You get it from there and then you just pick it up.
• 14:16
  No, no.
• 14:17
  It was Kalusha was the influence on my mom.
• 14:22
  In fact, she used to go and ask Kalusha for his boots and they were too big.
• 14:27
  And so he was the influence on my mom.
• 14:30
  Maybe a seed is planted.
• 14:32
  Fast forward and we're talking, I'm nine years, you know, I moved from Zambia and Malawi when I was nine.
• 14:39
  I don't start playing football till I'm 12.
• 14:42
  Now 12 is late, you know, and especially when you know my story, 12 is very, very late.
• 14:51
  The only time we really just kicked the ball around was in school.
• 14:54
  And in school, I remember we used to make footballs out of plastic bags.
• 14:59
  And so you take so many plastic bags, string them together and make a ball, really.
• 15:06
  And that's what our football was.
• 15:08
  And sometimes we had shoes, sometimes we didn't.
• 15:11
  I was the lucky one, but most of my friends...
• 15:13
  we played barefoot in school.
• 15:15
  So that's the time where I played football a little bit just for fun, but I never really thought about properly playing football.
• 15:23
  And my first team was when I was 12 years old when I moved to Wales.
• 15:27
  Now, like I said,
• 15:29
  When I was nine, my dad died in, so he passes away in Malawi.
• 15:35
  And that was still the most difficult time ever.
• 15:39
  How do you remember it?
• 15:40
  I remember it as being very, very difficult.
• 15:42
  The interesting thing is years later, I mean, he died from typhoid fever.
• 15:48
  Now, I got injured when I was at Norwich.
• 15:51
  And I'm having an operation and the doctor asks you questions and your mom, dad.
• 15:57
  And he says to me, typhoid fever.
• 16:01
  That's wow.
• 16:02
  It's so curable.
• 16:03
  It's so treatable.
• 16:05
  And you can imagine, you know, years later on hearing that.
• 16:10
  But as a kid, you don't know.
• 16:11
  Yeah.
• 16:13
  But from what I remember, I remember everything.
• 16:17
  I remember the weeks, the time, to the point that my dad, the funeral was in our house, in our living room.
• 16:30
  So as I'm there, I'm looking at my dad.
• 16:35
  and still that memories is very, very clear.
• 16:38
  Uh, that, that was really, really difficult because we had so many good times, so many good memories, so many, uh, enjoyable times.
• 16:43
  And in an instant he's gone.
• 16:44
  And the next thing is I'm in my living room and I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm
• 17:02
  The funeral's in my house, that's how we did it.
• 17:06
  And I'm looking at my dad and he's gone.
• 17:11
  Still the most difficult thing.
• 17:13
  Still the most difficult thing.
• 17:15
  Do you think it impacted you mentally after that?
• 17:18
  Yes, it impacted me.
• 17:21
  I wonder if sometimes with certain things or grief or trauma or some things, sometimes it takes
• 17:30
  20 years, 30 years to maybe hit you.
• 17:35
  I think it does.
• 17:36
  I think maybe, because there's sometimes where it hits me certain days now, more than when I was nine and 10 and 12.
• 17:46
  And maybe you don't know so much and you're not aware and you don't understand it so much when you're younger.
• 17:52
  But the dad was taking care of us.
• 17:54
  Now we have to find a way.
• 17:56
  So I think it gave us that in terms of having to survive, having to figure life out, having to move to the UK.
• 18:04
  Because my dad died.
• 18:06
  That's why we moved to the UK.
• 18:08
  He wanted us to have a good education.
• 18:09
  He wanted us to come and get educated in the UK.
• 18:15
  That's where he's from.
• 18:16
  And also the other thing is my auntie was also living in the UK and my mom's sister.
• 18:20
  So she also wanted to be closer to her.
• 18:22
  So my background, most people don't know that it's very much was in Zambia and Malawi and all of these things going on.
• 18:32
  as much as me moving afterwards after I was nine to, to the UK to grow up.
• 18:39
  Who inspired you growing up?
• 18:41
  I'm one of those, like I said, the thing to know about me is I don't get,
• 18:46
  inspiration just from one area.
• 18:48
  Like for example, I became a football player.
• 18:52
  I didn't just get inspiration from football.
• 18:56
  Now I can name football players, lots of football players that influenced me and where I thought, oh, that's inspiring.
• 19:04
  I think I got it from everywhere.
• 19:07
  For example, I'm big into music.
• 19:11
  You know, the Prince, Michael Jackson, the larger than life characters and personalities and performers.
• 19:24
  I was always drawn to them.
• 19:27
  And even before that, I remember we're in, and we didn't have TV when I was young.
• 19:34
  So I remember when we got to watch TV was because somebody got the fight or got, you know, and say fight because, um, people like Muhammad Ali and we got to watch Muhammad Ali.
• 19:48
  And I remember it was like, uh, you know, at the time it was like midnight.
• 19:53
  And I remember watching one fight and I was like,
• 19:58
  he inspires me, you know, and people like Muhammad Ali and Prince and Michael Jackson, they inspired me when I watched them and not because of the sport that they're doing, because I want to do the sport, not because of that.
• 20:10
  It's because something electric, something energy, something big, something personality and, and, um,
• 20:18
  I think maybe the genius I was seeing the genius in what they were doing.
• 20:23
  And I was like, that inspires me.
• 20:25
  Um, you know, I remember also things like we used to go into the village when I was in Malawi and, um,
• 20:34
  there was someone who managed to get like videos and screen them every Friday night.
• 20:42
  And we used to go to this literally like a hut and there was like 25, 40 people.
• 20:48
  And it was the cinema.
• 20:51
  And that was the only time we really got to watch films.
• 20:55
  And I remember watching Bruce Lee.
• 20:57
  And Jackie Chan and the karate films that, that we're on and karate films were big in the eighties, nineties.
• 21:03
  They were, they were, they were huge.
• 21:06
  And, um, you know, Bruce Lee enter the dragon is, is playing.
• 21:11
  And, um, and Jackie Chan, you know, the way he moved and, and,
• 21:15
  And I was, that inspired me.
• 21:18
  So from those early days, those are the people that inspired me.
• 21:23
  Now fast forward later on, who inspired me in football?
• 21:29
  Now I remember watching, I remember watching football on TV when I moved to the UK.
• 21:34
  And I see football on TV and I'm like, whoa, what's that?
• 21:39
  So I watch a little bit and I'm like,
• 21:42
  the thing that I loved was it came through the screen.
• 21:47
  It was that, wow, like, that's amazing.
• 21:50
  Now, I watched my mom play football.
• 21:53
  And I think maybe the seed grew when I came to the UK.
• 21:57
  Now, when I get to the UK and I see it on TV, and I'm like, that's what I want to do.
• 22:03
  Now, I remember watching, you know, really, when I look at, you know, early days, you know, I used to watch Man United and Eric Cantona,
• 22:11
  Um, with his collar, uh, and his elegance and his personality.
• 22:16
  Um, but I think when I, when I, Manchester United were playing Barcelona one time and they got batted four nil and I was disappointed because I was like, ah, you know, they got batted.
• 22:30
  But then on the other team, there's a player called Romario, Brazilian Romario.
• 22:36
  What player?
• 22:37
  Yeah.
• 22:39
  And I remember watching him and I was like, I love this guy.
• 22:46
  I love this guy.
• 22:47
  And instantly the way he moved, his charisma, his balance, his finishing.
• 22:54
  And I was like, from watching it on TV, watching those games, watching Romario.
• 23:02
  And I remember the 1994 World Cup.
• 23:04
  When I was watching the 1994 World Cup, I was like,
• 23:08
  That's what I want to do.
• 23:11
  That's what I want to become a football player.
• 23:13
  But I remember watching those players.
• 23:15
  And the thing is, the way I look at things, the way I look at football is I am an absolute savant.
• 23:26
  That's the best way to do it.
• 23:27
  Oh, word.
• 23:28
  I watched so much.
• 23:31
  And you talk about the 94 World Cup.
• 23:33
  When I was watching the 94 World Cup Argentina, I'm watching Batistuta.
• 23:37
  You know, I'm watching Brazil.
• 23:40
  I'm watching Romario and Bebeto.
• 23:43
  Italy got Roberto Baggio.
• 23:45
  Romania got Georgie Haji.
• 23:48
  So I'm watching all of these amazing football players.
• 23:52
  Yeah.
• 23:53
  And I was always watching then from that moment on.
• 23:56
  So I didn't get it from just one area, one specific thing.
• 24:01
  I kind of watched different people, completely different industries like, you know, music, boxing, performance, football.
• 24:10
  Um, and, and that's what inspired me.
• 24:13
  So all the big characters then pretty much.
• 24:15
  Yeah.
• 24:16
  All the, all the big personalities.
• 24:18
  Um, but the, the thing is there was there, I always find that there was some kind of genius to them.
• 24:24
  That's what I loved.
• 24:26
  It was how amazing, like through like pierce your soul type of genius.
• 24:33
  That's what I was drawn to.
• 24:34
  That's what like.
• 24:36
  For me mentally, I was like, how do they do that?
• 24:40
  What makes that happen?
• 24:43
  And that's what I was drawn to.
• 24:44
  That's what inspired me.
• 24:45
  And for me, that's what inspired me to then, what do I want to do?
• 24:50
  I saw it on TV.
• 24:51
  I want to become a football player.
• 24:52
  And from there, I want to do football.
• 24:56
  But when I do football, I'll do it my way.
• 24:58
  Yeah.
• 24:59
  Because of the different energies that I've been surrounded by.
• 25:03
  Yeah.
• 25:03
  Nice.
• 25:04
  And where football all began was, like you said, your mom made the decision to move the family to Wales because of your auntie.
• 25:11
  Her sister living there, right?
• 25:12
  Yeah.
• 25:12
  What was your first memory of moving to Wales?
• 25:15
  I remember us being on the plane.
• 25:17
  We moved to Wales.
• 25:19
  And when...
• 25:20
  We get to Wales, first of all, it's freezing.
• 25:25
  It's cold.
• 25:27
  And second of all, it was just a completely different world.
• 25:31
  Completely different world to what I was used to.
• 25:34
  You know, you look around and everything's different.
• 25:39
  And I knew of the UK because of my dad.
• 25:43
  but I never felt it.
• 25:45
  And when I moved to the UK, I felt it.
• 25:47
  It was so different.
• 25:48
  So everything was so new, so foreign.
• 25:51
  So I didn't know so much, you know, and you're going from, you know, most things in Zambia and Malawi to not know anything.
• 26:00
  what's this, what do I do here?
• 26:01
  Where, you know, where do I get food?
• 26:03
  What, what happens here?
• 26:05
  Um, and I remember we also things like we, we then didn't go to school for about a year or two.
• 26:10
  Um, I think maybe a year.
• 26:12
  Uh, so I, we didn't go to school because we missed the cutoff period and then we had to wait till the next year.
• 26:18
  Um, so we, um, we didn't, I like didn't have a lot of friends, you know, apart from just our, our family, uh, brothers and sisters.
• 26:27
  And, um,
• 26:28
  It was very different.
• 26:29
  And moving to the UK was, you know, just a completely different world.
• 26:35
  So you go from almost living in a school to not going to school.
• 26:38
  Yeah.
• 26:39
  It's crazy.
• 26:40
  Yeah.
• 26:41
  And I remember, yeah, we didn't go to school.
• 26:43
  And I remember there was, we lived with our auntie for a long time.
• 26:46
  And she looked after us until my mom found a house.
• 26:50
  And my mom needed her sister to help her to how things work.
• 26:56
  how, you know, even to find a house and where to live and go to school and what happens with the kids and all of these things.
• 27:03
  So my mom went through it.
• 27:05
  My mom really did so much to look after us.
• 27:09
  And then I remember we lived with our auntie and I remember being so sad at times because for that year we moved there.
• 27:17
  I didn't, you know, I had lots of friends in Malawi and in Zambia.
• 27:22
  But we lived with our auntie and across the road from our auntie was, uh, was a school.
• 27:28
  And so every break time you hear all the kids.
• 27:31
  So I used to go and look over the window and look across the road and I used to just watch the kids, uh, play and then break time finishes and then I'll go back.
• 27:42
  And then we're, you know, we're just in the house cause my mom wanted us safe.
• 27:46
  She didn't want us to go outside.
• 27:47
  We're too small, too young.
• 27:48
  We don't know, um, yeah.
• 27:50
  this new world that we've kind of ended up in.
• 27:54
  Um, so that was, that was really emotional.
• 27:57
  That was, that was tough.
• 27:59
  Uh, that was a tough year.
• 28:01
  And so, so it sounds like you were desperate to kind of make friends mingle with these people.
• 28:05
  What, what was your first memory of football?
• 28:07
  How did that begin?
• 28:09
  In Wales.
• 28:10
  Yeah, it was.
• 28:11
  So when we found a house and we were put into this council estate in Lansbury Park in Caffilly in Wales.
• 28:20
  Lansbury Park.
• 28:21
  Yeah.
• 28:22
  Very famous for being a very bad neighborhood.
• 28:26
  Yeah, for sure.
• 28:27
  A very bad council estate.
• 28:29
  Very rough.
• 28:30
  Very tough.
• 28:31
  But that's where we got put into a house.
• 28:34
  So we lived there and all the kids used to go outside, play football every day.
• 28:39
  And, um, my mom never used to let us for a long, long time.
• 28:43
  And then, you know, you get to know your neighbor and, uh, and then they say, oh, come play football with us in, in, uh, in, in the street.
• 28:52
  So that's what it was.
• 28:53
  way I was really started playing.
• 28:55
  And I remember we playing football every day in the street.
• 28:57
  And one of the kids, um, one of the boys said, I play for a football team.
• 29:02
  Uh, you should, you should come along.
• 29:03
  You're not bad.
• 29:04
  Um, you should come along.
• 29:05
  So I remember going to a team called Lambradoc and I was there to a few weeks ago.
• 29:11
  Um, but there was a team called Lambradoc under 12s.
• 29:13
  So I get to Lambradoc under 12s.
• 29:16
  Um, and there's like a trial, uh, my friend who asked me to come, he already plays for the team a couple of years.
• 29:22
  He, uh, there's an A team and a B team.
• 29:25
  So we went and, you know, I didn't know what was going on, but it was a trial.
• 29:30
  Um, so we train in session and then we had two or three training sessions.
• 29:35
  Uh, and then they picked an A team and a B team.
• 29:37
  Um, a lot of the A team knew,
• 29:40
  you know, that who they were, the good ones, they, they were always in there and they were picking a B team because there's so many kids.
• 29:47
  Um, but anyway, uh, you'd think with my football in Korea, I, I got in, I didn't get in.
• 29:55
  Um, I didn't get into the A team.
• 29:57
  Um, and I, I, uh, was put into the B team.
• 30:02
  Um, and, uh,
• 30:05
  There's a guy called Mike Hart, who was the manager at the time.
• 30:08
  And, um, I got to see him recently.
• 30:10
  I still remind him still to this day.
• 30:13
  And I think everybody reminds him that remember that kid you put into the B team that you never put into the A team that you said wasn't, uh, wasn't so good.
• 30:21
  Um, yeah, he went on to do something.
• 30:24
  What was his reason?
• 30:26
  I guess I just thought I wasn't good enough.
• 30:30
  I wasn't as good as a lot of the other kids, a whole team of them.
• 30:36
  I wasn't as good as.
• 30:37
  So I never got into the A-team of Lambradic, and I got into, I guess, you know, the B-team was just to make up the numbers and you still play a game.
• 30:45
  But, so I played with Lambradic for, you know, when they had games in the B-team.
• 30:52
  And, yeah.
• 30:54
  That was my first team that I played.
• 30:58
  And that's the first time I really played football in a team, in team setting, went training.
• 31:04
  But I continued.
• 31:06
  Because for me, it was a challenge.
• 31:07
  The challenge was...
• 31:09
  oh, okay, I need to be better.
• 31:12
  And that was the thing for me is I need to be better.
• 31:15
  And that sets this, I guess, momentum of, okay, I need to be better.
• 31:21
  I need to be better.
• 31:21
  And I need to do better.
• 31:24
  I need to practice more.
• 31:24
  I need to, and in the street, I was really good.
• 31:28
  I was one of the really good kids, but in the team, I wasn't good enough.
• 31:32
  And I was told I wasn't good enough.
• 31:34
  So that's the team I played for.
• 31:38
  Then fast forward a couple of years later, I go, you know, one of my other friends is, they started a new team, said you should come and play.
• 31:47
  I went and played there.
• 31:49
  I played there for a year, did quite well.
• 31:51
  And then there was a team, the old Cofili team, and it was sponsored by GE Wales.
• 31:58
  They were named GE Wales, but it was Cofili.
• 32:00
  So it was my local team.
• 32:03
  The reason they were called GE Wales is because we played on Cofili,
• 32:07
  the side of their building.
• 32:09
  Now in Kefili, um, General Electric is their factory is, uh, right in, in, in, in Kefili on, on, on the slope as you go to the town.
• 32:21
  Uh, they used to have a football pitch there.
• 32:24
  And the reason I became a football player was a bit accidental really.
• 32:30
  So, uh,
• 32:32
  I play for GE Wales.
• 32:33
  I play in the first year.
• 32:34
  And after the year ends, I mean, this is when I was starting to become good.
• 32:42
  And we had good coaches and they took us and developed us.
• 32:46
  And now I'm starting to show that I've got a little bit of something.
• 32:50
  And we had good players.
• 32:53
  We play for the first year.
• 32:54
  After the first year,
• 32:56
  GE, the company, they say, oh, we have to kick you off the football pitches because the football pitches are going to be turned into factories, bigger factories and bigger buildings on the side.
• 33:08
  So we're going to extend the factory.
• 33:10
  So they kick us off the football pitch.
• 33:12
  We had to find a new football pitch.
• 33:14
  So they build this big giant building, which is still there today.
• 33:18
  And coincidentally enough, my mom ended up working in there as a cleaner later in the years.
• 33:25
  And so they built these big factories all across big buildings.
• 33:32
  So we got kicked off the football pitch and talk about a blessing.
• 33:37
  So we have to find a new football pitch.
• 33:40
  We go 10 minutes down the road in Traforest.
• 33:43
  Traforest is football pitches, and now there's a university there as well.
• 33:47
  That's kind of grown.
• 33:49
  But there used to be just local playing fields.
• 33:52
  We moved there.
• 33:53
  We were playing there.
• 33:54
  And the interesting coincidence was on the same pitch,
• 33:59
  Every Saturday morning, Cardiff City play their youth team games on the same pitch.
• 34:05
  I mean, on the next pitch over.
• 34:08
  Now, the reason I became a football player was we got kicked off the football pitch.
• 34:13
  We moved down.
• 34:14
  And one Saturday morning, Cardiff City youth team are kicking off, say, at 11.
• 34:21
  We kick off at 10.
• 34:23
  Yeah.
• 34:24
  So we're playing the Cardiff City youth team coach watches our first half.
• 34:29
  Our first half, I score a hat-trick.
• 34:32
  I do very well.
• 34:34
  And all of a sudden, he takes notice.
• 34:38
  Now, after the game, they go play their game.
• 34:43
  After the game, he comes over to our coach, says, who's the kid that scored a hat-trick in the first half?
• 34:48
  Oh, that's Robert Earnshaw.
• 34:50
  He's a good player.
• 34:52
  Yeah, so I saw him play.
• 34:54
  And then that's when he asked me to come for some trials with Cardiff City.
• 34:58
  And at this point,
• 35:00
  the trials for the youth team was to pick the next under the the youth academy which is under 18s at this time so I never got the lucky great okay you go through an academy and you play for five six eight years before you go into the under 18s and I never got that and I
• 35:24
  He asked me to come for trials.
• 35:26
  I go for the trials and the trials were on Indian Park on the first team pitch in the stadium.
• 35:31
  And every Wednesday we went there and we had about three or four training sessions there.
• 35:37
  And then the last training session was the day of my school record of achievement night.
• 35:45
  Now, I couldn't miss the last record of achievement night.
• 35:49
  And he goes, okay, yeah, this training session is this night.
• 35:55
  And straight away, this is the record of achievement night.
• 35:57
  I'm picking between that and the last training session.
• 36:02
  So I said, okay, let's do both.
• 36:04
  I went to the training session, had the most amazing training session ever.
• 36:09
  Afterwards, Gavin Tate, who's the youth team coach, he pulls me into the office and I didn't know any of this.
• 36:15
  I was just trying to get in.
• 36:17
  He goes, I've got one spot left on our youth team.
• 36:22
  Do you want it?
• 36:24
  I said, absolutely.
• 36:27
  Were you a confident player at that age?
• 36:30
  Yeah.
• 36:31
  Yeah.
• 36:32
  I mean, talk about confidence.
• 36:36
  This is probably 96, 97.
• 36:40
  I'm wearing yellow boots.
• 36:42
  At 15 years old.
• 36:43
  Yeah.
• 36:45
  At 15 years old.
• 36:46
  Yeah.
• 36:47
  So, yeah, confidence was always part of who I was.
• 36:54
  in my family is you, you be who you are and you express yourself how you are.
• 36:59
  So confidence was that it was just part of it.
• 37:03
  Right.
• 37:03
  Uh, and, um, and my mom taught us that, uh, but yeah, confidence was always part of the package, part of who I am.
• 37:13
  Even now, I mean, if you, if you're going through life, you, you have to be, you have to be confident.
• 37:19
  If you want to become a football player, confidence is very, very key because, uh,
• 37:24
  There's going to be some ups and lots and lots of downs and confidence is the number one thing that you've got a hold of.
• 37:31
  That's, that's for you.
• 37:32
  That's the way I look at it.
• 37:34
  That's for me.
• 37:35
  Um, it's not to do with anybody else.
• 37:38
  And the way I always put it is with my confidence, you don't get a vote.
• 37:43
  You don't get a vote on my confidence.
• 37:45
  Yeah.
• 37:45
  You say this, you say that, I'm sorry.
• 37:48
  I, I, that's not for me.
• 37:49
  Um,
• 37:50
  I'm in control of my confidence.
• 37:52
  So it was part of being a football player.
• 37:55
  But even if I wasn't a football player, I'd be the same.
• 37:58
  And that's the way I kind of always looked at it is, yeah, you have to be confident in life in what you want to do.
• 38:04
  But that was a big thing.
• 38:06
  But anyway, I got picked because I was confident.
• 38:11
  I got picked because, and if you, you got to look at it, he gambled in a way to pick me because there was kids that were ready.
• 38:19
  There were boys that were at that point, 15, 16, just about to leave school that were, you know, in terms of strength and physique and all of these things, uh, they were ready.
• 38:31
  I was smaller.
• 38:33
  So, but I think maybe the confidence, uh,
• 38:36
  and also the ability that I was scoring lots and lots of goals.
• 38:40
  I remember that season when he picked me and when he saw me play,
• 38:45
  I think I scored 87 goals in that one season.
• 38:49
  And how many games is that?
• 38:51
  It's probably 50 games or something.
• 38:54
  That's an unreal ratio.
• 38:56
  Yeah, I was just scoring goals.
• 38:58
  I loved scoring goals.
• 39:00
  The thing for me on the football pitch was, the reason I was watching Batistuta and Romario and all of these top players and Maradona's before that and Pele's is because I loved the moment when they scored goals.
• 39:14
  For me, the best thing in the world, the feeling when you score a goal, that was it.
• 39:19
  So when I stepped on the football pitch, it was about scoring goals.
• 39:22
  That's what I love to do.
• 39:23
  So I think it was, you know, because I scored lots of goals, because I was confident, because I showed that I had the ability to...
• 39:35
  to do something more.
• 39:38
  Maybe that's why he picked me, but I got picked and I left the room, went to my record of achievement night, walked straight through the door.
• 39:48
  My class was literally walking through.
• 39:50
  I joined the line as I walked through the door, went up, got my record of achievement picture on stage, went all the way around, sat down, and I just went, my friend turned around, what happened?
• 40:02
  Yeah.
• 40:03
  you'll, you'll never guess.
• 40:06
  And that's the, that's the night that I got picked to become a football player because it was, first of all, academy into the youth team.
• 40:16
  Then you tried to earn your professional contract contract.
• 40:19
  Now, uh, that year was a big year because when I, that year, if you talk about 1997 in April, uh,
• 40:34
  I don't know what I'm doing that next year.
• 40:36
  And my friends are saying, Oh, what are you going to do?
• 40:38
  Are you going to go into sixth form?
• 40:40
  Um, I don't know.
• 40:41
  You know, I don't know what I want to do.
• 40:42
  I don't.
• 40:42
  Uh, and fast forward that October, that same October, um, I'm coming out in front of five, 6,000 in a, in a, in a,
• 40:53
  Welsh Cup game for Cardiff City in the first team.
• 40:57
  Yeah.
• 40:57
  The 16 years old football league trophy.
• 40:59
  Yeah.
• 41:00
  That happened in that same year.
• 41:02
  How did you find out you were in the squad that day?
• 41:06
  So funny stories.
• 41:07
  The,
• 41:09
  So our week to week in the youth team was we come in and we were in every day, six days a week.
• 41:17
  The sixth day was the game, which was the Saturday, but we're in every day.
• 41:20
  And we used to come in and the first team sometimes played on a Tuesday night.
• 41:24
  So we train on the Monday and it was hard session running.
• 41:28
  Normally Monday, Tuesday was a hard session, right?
• 41:31
  And you'd be running the fitness, extra fitness.
• 41:35
  And we did all of this on the Monday and the Tuesday.
• 41:38
  Yeah.
• 41:38
  So we train and I guess Gavin Tate, the youth team coach, gets the meeting, you know, come into the managers, first team manager's office, says, yeah, we want Rob Earnshaw to be involved with the first team.
• 41:56
  After you just trained?
• 41:57
  After I just trained.
• 41:59
  So he doesn't know anything about it.
• 42:01
  So he comes to me, says, listen, guess what?
• 42:03
  Yeah.
• 42:05
  You're going to be involved with the first team tonight.
• 42:07
  This was a Tuesday night, I remember.
• 42:09
  And, um, it took me about two hours to get home every day.
• 42:16
  So by the time if I left and went home and then came back for the first team, I wouldn't have had enough time.
• 42:21
  So, um, after I trained in the morning, I get the nod and saying, okay, you're going to be involved with the first team.
• 42:28
  Um, and, uh, I said, okay, um, okay.
• 42:32
  I guess I'll just wait in the stadium because at that point we used to, we always arrived in the stadium and we stayed in the stadium and, uh, we cleaned the boots, we cleaned the change room.
• 42:42
  Uh, we left to training from there.
• 42:45
  Um, so I was like, well, what do I do?
• 42:48
  So I read you slept in the boardroom.
• 42:50
  Yeah.
• 42:50
  So, yeah,
• 42:52
  They say, oh, you're going to have to just stay here.
• 42:54
  You haven't got enough time to go home.
• 42:55
  So I didn't have enough time to go home.
• 42:57
  And so I stayed in the stadium by myself.
• 43:02
  And I remember one of the coaches says, he was joking around and said, just go upstairs in the boardroom and take a nap if you want.
• 43:11
  So I did.
• 43:12
  You took it literally.
• 43:13
  So, yeah.
• 43:14
  So the first team were meeting up, I don't know, like six o'clock in the evening.
• 43:18
  And this was probably like 12 o'clock.
• 43:20
  So I had about six hours to kill.
• 43:21
  So I slept in the boardroom upstairs in the stadium at Ninian Park before the first game that I ever played.
• 43:30
  And I came on that night.
• 43:33
  Yeah.
• 43:36
  I never thought anything else apart from the joy and the pleasure.
• 43:41
  And I completely forgot what happened that day and how much fitness I did and where I slept that afternoon.
• 43:50
  Because it was all about earning your first call-up, first minutes, first time you get into the change room and you get changed with all the pros, you know, and all the men and...
• 44:03
  And that's where you were trying to get to.
• 44:06
  So I played my first minutes after taking a sleep in the boardroom.
• 44:10
  What a story.
• 44:12
  And shortly after then, you scored your first goal in the first league game, correct?
• 44:19
  Against Hartlepool.
• 44:20
  It wasn't just a normal goal either.
• 44:23
  Yeah.
• 44:23
  It was a very, very good one.
• 44:24
  Yeah, I remember it was...
• 44:28
  I was, I was always obsessed about scoring the spectacular goals.
• 44:32
  Right.
• 44:32
  So I remember we used to practice so much, you know, before I even got called up to the, uh, the first team or youth team, we were always practicing overhead kicks, bicycle kicks, you know, we watched Pelé do it.
• 44:46
  Um, so.
• 44:49
  The interesting thing is it was my first start.
• 44:53
  And Frank Burrows, the manager at the time, says, you're gonna start.
• 44:56
  And so the interesting thing is I'm playing with somebody who's double my age.
• 45:01
  I remember John Williams, played at Coventry, played in the Premier League, great, great guy.
• 45:09
  And he goes down the right-hand side, crosses the ball.
• 45:14
  And it was a bad cross.
• 45:16
  It was behind me.
• 45:17
  But instinctively, because I practiced so much, instinctively, it was like, oh, if it's behind me, it's overhead kick.
• 45:23
  So I connected with this ball, and it flew into the roof of the net, and it's still one of my best goals that I've ever scored.
• 45:30
  And that was my first ever goal.
• 45:32
  It was Hartlepool away.
• 45:33
  And the interesting thing is I score the goal, go to celebrate, don't think anything of it.
• 45:38
  Fans are jumping up and down.
• 45:39
  And of course, with Cardiff City,
• 45:44
  if it's one of the young players that come through, it's a little bit more special.
• 45:48
  Yeah.
• 45:49
  So it's me.
• 45:50
  I score the goal, everybody's celebrating.
• 45:52
  And then I realized afterwards, people are telling me the story.
• 45:55
  When I scored, I do the somersault and there's all the fans are jumping on.
• 45:59
  They're on the pitch.
• 46:00
  They're in, they're in the goal.
• 46:01
  They're climbing on top of the crossbar and somebody's run on the pitch.
• 46:05
  And,
• 46:06
  smashed into the post and knocked themselves out on the, on the post.
• 46:10
  And we're over here celebrating and somebody's done that over there.
• 46:13
  And I guess somebody's picked them up, throw them back into the crowd or whatever, but that, yeah, somebody knocked it still to this day.
• 46:20
  Somebody knocked themselves out.
• 46:22
  Um, I get reminded of that.
• 46:24
  Did you ever find out who that person was?
• 46:25
  I can't really, yeah, no, no idea.
• 46:27
  The story lives on because I get reminded of that so much.
• 46:31
  But that was my first goal.
• 46:33
  Hartley pulled away and it was the best way to arrive.
• 46:37
  You mentioned then that you practiced and it was an instinctive move.
• 46:41
  Did you ever study goalkeepers and defenders?
• 46:44
  Yeah.
• 46:45
  Yeah.
• 46:46
  Some of my favorite players were goalkeepers, for example, and defenders.
• 46:50
  You know, when, you know, when, you know, Peter Schmeichel, for example, somebody I used to love watching, Peter Schmeichel.
• 46:57
  I used to watch...
• 47:00
  Jorge Campos, the Mexican goalkeeper with the colorful kits.
• 47:08
  Chilove, I think Paraguay played for.
• 47:12
  You know, so all of these, I used to watch so many goalkeepers.
• 47:15
  And the interesting thing is I never realized that when I was watching goalkeepers,
• 47:21
  I was partly studying them as well.
• 47:23
  So when I was a striker, Oh, what do they do?
• 47:26
  Where do they move?
• 47:27
  Where do they go?
• 47:28
  Um, so part of me becoming good as a striker was also looking at all the habits of a goalkeeper.
• 47:34
  What do they do?
• 47:34
  Where do they position themselves?
• 47:36
  How do they move when they're going to save the ball?
• 47:38
  What's their footwork like?
• 47:40
  And all of these things I was kind of studying along the way as watching just as a fan.
• 47:45
  And, um,
• 47:47
  I used it.
• 47:48
  I used it in terms of taking an advantage as a striker.
• 47:52
  So there was times where I scored goals.
• 47:55
  And when I scored goals, I didn't have to look at the goalkeeper because I knew how many steps he'd moved to the left.
• 48:03
  Then he positioned himself, how far wide his feet are.
• 48:07
  And then I kind of just knew where to shoot.
• 48:11
  So there was times where I didn't have to look at the goal.
• 48:14
  And I think that's the best way to arrive as a striker.
• 48:21
  Because sometimes you don't have time to look at the goal.
• 48:24
  You have to know.
• 48:25
  You have to know where the goalkeeper is.
• 48:27
  You haven't got time.
• 48:28
  Things are split second.
• 48:30
  If the ball drops here, have I got time to look at there?
• 48:35
  And then come back and then plant my feet and then wait.
• 48:40
  I'm going to shoot.
• 48:40
  That's too long.
• 48:41
  Yeah.
• 48:42
  Because the ball drops down, you've got to score.
• 48:45
  And that's how quick sometimes it happens.
• 48:47
  So sometimes you've got to be ahead of that and practice that and know and understand where the goalkeepers are, where the defenders are.
• 48:53
  And a lot of my career was about that.
• 48:56
  It looks like instinct, but it's...
• 49:00
  because of understanding and studying how things move on the pitch, the habits, the goalkeepers, the defenders, where the ball's going to drop, even to the point where if the ball is spinning one way or the other way, you've got to know how to hit the ball, how to connect with the ball, how hard you have to swing or not swing.
• 49:27
  So all of these details was about...
• 49:30
  understanding getting to know and you understand that by a process process is hours and hours and hours of repetition on the training pitch that's what i that's what i did that's what i was uh i loved and and did so much of a repetition the amount of balls that i and everything's not going to go your way you hope the final end product in a game goes your way and
• 49:56
  Luckily there was lots of that, but on the training pitch, flying here, flying there, you know, because you're practicing and that's what it's for the training pitch.
• 50:04
  And then once it's game time, once it's the stage, once you hit the stage in the stadium and in front of the lights.
• 50:11
  It goes in.
• 50:12
  And this leads me really to where everything explodes to you.
• 50:15
  2002 to 2003 season, you score 35 goals in all competitions, breaking a Cardiff City record.
• 50:23
  So that record stood for 56 years before you did it.
• 50:27
  Cardiff win promotion through the playoffs.
• 50:30
  You scored over double the amount of the goals the season before.
• 50:33
  What changed for you in that year?
• 50:35
  I think what changed, first of all, was...
• 50:40
  the team around me was really, really excellent.
• 50:44
  Really good players.
• 50:46
  You know, we had James Collins, Danny Gabadon, Graham Kavanagh, Willie Boland, two Irish central midfielders, brilliant.
• 50:59
  I mean, I could name so many, but we had so many really good players, um, around me.
• 51:04
  Um, and also at the time is I'm developing, I'm also starting to play for whales at this time.
• 51:10
  I'm also starting to see what's the, what's the world class level is like, because I'm playing with, you know, the Gary speeds and, uh, Ryan gigs at the time and I, it
• 51:22
  At the time, Ryan Giggs is world-class, right?
• 51:25
  One of the best wingers in the world.
• 51:27
  And I get to be called up and play with him for a couple of weeks, every, you know, probably six weeks or so.
• 51:33
  And I get to see that, feel that, learn from that.
• 51:36
  So I think that just the natural process of me wanting to be the best, me wanting to play in the Premier League, getting also to train with world-class players in the Wales team,
• 51:49
  and players that were regarded as some of the best in the UK.
• 51:55
  And then being able to play in my team and say, okay, that's the level I have to be.
• 52:01
  I need to be better.
• 52:02
  So I'm going to go and do this and do that.
• 52:05
  And I think what changed really was, the way I always put it is...
• 52:12
  You get to a point where everything clicked, all your practice, the amount of reps that you do, the amount of finishes that you did, your movement, your understanding of the game, the amount of times you've practiced on the training pitch.
• 52:26
  You're doing it for years and years and years.
• 52:29
  And then that season, 2002, was when, you know, in the film, The Matrix.
• 52:35
  Yeah.
• 52:36
  And, uh, Neo eventually, uh, faces the agents and then he thinks, ah, this is it.
• 52:45
  This is the end.
• 52:47
  But then he puts his hand out and, and the bullet starts to stop.
• 52:51
  Then he realizes he's the one.
• 52:55
  Yeah.
• 52:55
  Okay.
• 52:56
  And in that film, it was, it's that, that's the way I describe it is the, the Neo, the Neo effect really was, was when everything just slows down and you can just do things.
• 53:10
  And all of a sudden everything's just connecting.
• 53:13
  Right.
• 53:13
  You know, now for me, it was because the amount of times I practice.
• 53:18
  Now in first team scenario, I was now doing it based on just, it just clicked.
• 53:26
  It was just, you go into this kind of mode, this way that every chance just went in.
• 53:33
  Um, every moment, every half chance, every, all your technique is just right, just perfect.
• 53:40
  And I scored so many different types of goals in that, in, in that season.
• 53:45
  And, um, everything just, it felt like the, the Neo moment where you just, you, you finally find that you're the one.
• 53:53
  Yeah.
• 53:54
  Yeah, no, it's actually a great way to think about it.
• 53:56
  That's the best way I can describe it is you think everything's so fast, fast, fast, fast.
• 54:02
  And then all of a sudden you're just like, ah, it's slow.
• 54:05
  It's like this.
• 54:06
  And you're just doing it and doing it.
• 54:07
  And you do it again and you do it again.
• 54:09
  And it almost just kind of slows down a bit, even though to the naked eye, to the people watching, it was like full speed.
• 54:16
  It was almost kind of like that.
• 54:18
  And that's how it felt for me.
• 54:19
  It felt like every chance was I just knew what to do.
• 54:25
  later on, I, I, I read something that really clicked and it took me straight back to that 2002 moment.
• 54:36
  Now I mentioned the matrix there because of one of my favorite films, but, um, I read that your subconscious mind is 30,000 times, uh, better and more connected than your conscious mind.
• 54:51
  So when you try to do something, uh,
• 54:54
  there's that rigidness of like, I'm trying to do it.
• 54:59
  But when you almost don't try to do it and, you know, say, for example, in football, you've practiced so much and then it just you don't think about it so much and you don't try so much.
• 55:10
  You're trying, but not too much because it's, you know, it's like when you get the chance and you you try to smash it as hard as possible and then it goes over because for a split second, your technique was a little bit off because you got underneath it and you blaze it over.
• 55:25
  And and this but the the difference is so small.
• 55:30
  So in that moment, you're kind of like, it just connects.
• 55:36
  So,
• 55:39
  I guess for me, the way I look at it, and this is deep, but I always find that when I didn't try so much, I let my body almost take over in the moment.
• 55:52
  My technique, my timing, the way I finished, the detail of the ball, where I connected with the ball, all of these things, the way I scored a goal, and was not so rigid, was not so rough, was not so hectic, was not so panicked.
• 56:09
  And almost that panic takes away.
• 56:11
  And that's what I found that when you practice so much and get yourself together so much, at some point it just connects.
• 56:19
  And all of a sudden you're able to just do it with almost ease because you've...
• 56:26
  it's, it's now part of you.
• 56:27
  You can now just do it.
• 56:29
  And, um, I guess I was always chasing that, you know, when I was watching the amazing artists that, that I mentioned earlier about, you know, what inspired me, what I learned from his, um, um,
• 56:43
  is because of those things.
• 56:45
  And that's how, you know, you're trying to become good at something.
• 56:48
  You're trying to become great at something.
• 56:50
  Yeah, you almost have to go through the rough and the tough and the practice and rigidness and mess up, mess up sometimes.
• 56:58
  And then all of a sudden,
• 57:00
  it starts to click and less noise and more calm, more, more clear.
• 57:05
  And all of a sudden it's just smoother, uh, and, and cleaner.
• 57:10
  And all of a sudden you're then at some point, uh,
• 57:14
  It's great.
• 57:15
  And that mindset obviously did lead you to that Wales debut.
• 57:19
  So it was in May 2002.
• 57:21
  You had your senior debut for Wales against Germany.
• 57:24
  You scored the only goal of the game against Oliver Kahn.
• 57:28
  That sounds crazy to even say it out loud, right?
• 57:30
  Yeah.
• 57:31
  Oliver Kahn was one of the best goalkeepers in the world at that point.
• 57:34
  He placed for Germany, placed for Bayern Munich.
• 57:37
  I watched him on TV.
• 57:39
  And all of a sudden, I get called up into the squad and I'm...
• 57:43
  you know, we're playing Germany.
• 57:45
  Germany, one of the best teams ever, right?
• 57:47
  They made the final that year.
• 57:48
  Yeah, they did.
• 57:50
  So interestingly enough, so before my first game for Wales, I almost never played because two days before we're having a training session and I go to shoot and I tweak my knee a little bit.
• 58:01
  And I was like, ooh.
• 58:03
  And bear in mind a couple of years earlier, I tweaked my knee a little bit and damaged my ligaments.
• 58:11
  And I was out for two times, you know, a month at a time.
• 58:15
  And I thought, oh, no, I felt this kind of feeling before.
• 58:19
  So I got to see the doctor that evening.
• 58:22
  And then the next day we had a training session and the doctor was kind of like, well, it's a little bit loose, but it's up to you, really.
• 58:31
  I mean, if you feel strong enough, you can get through it, but it's not really recommended.
• 58:35
  Yeah.
• 58:36
  So I was like, and you do the training session in that week, right?
• 58:41
  And Mark Hughes is the manager at the time and he's, he'll set the teams up and it looks as if I'm going to be playing by the training sessions, the exercises that we're doing.
• 58:52
  And it looks as if I'll be playing.
• 58:53
  I was like, I'm not missing my chance to play against Germany.
• 58:57
  So I was like, listen, I have to play.
• 59:02
  I'm going to have to suffer through it.
• 59:04
  Like it's not quite right.
• 59:05
  So my left knee, and if you go back to that game, I've got a strapping, kind of like a one Sebastian Varon strapping.
• 59:12
  You can kind of see it when I score the goal because my socks actually came down a little bit during that game.
• 59:18
  And there's a strapping on my left knee.
• 59:21
  That was almost like just helping me just to keep the strength.
• 59:24
  But I almost never played.
• 59:27
  That game, 2002, I start the game.
• 59:32
  And when you're a kid, and I'm that kid kicking the ball against the garage door, and I just wanted to play one game as a professional and appear one time on TV.
• 59:47
  And maybe if I get called up for Wales, I play one game.
• 59:52
  This was my first game.
• 59:53
  So I get called up, and I just want to play.
• 59:55
  I just want to play minutes.
• 59:56
  But it was interesting that that game was one of the best games I've ever played.
• 1:00:04
  Because there was a moment where just before kickoff, it was like, I felt like you got nothing to lose.
• 1:00:12
  It's Germany is one of the best, some of the best players in the world, but guess what, you got nothing to lose.
• 1:00:18
  So just go play.
• 1:00:19
  And I, I just had that feeling.
• 1:00:21
  I was almost like I'm talking to myself.
• 1:00:24
  And I just said, let's go.
• 1:00:26
  And then I remember getting the ball within a minute and I said, I'm dribbling here.
• 1:00:31
  So, and that was a way of motivating myself.
• 1:00:34
  I'm dribbling here.
• 1:00:35
  So I went down the right wing and all of a sudden it was almost like saying, you've got a game on here.
• 1:00:41
  I know Germany, you're one of the best teams, but you've got a game on here.
• 1:00:44
  I remember going down the right wing and I got tackled, got a throw in, but dribbled past a couple of players.
• 1:00:50
  And it was almost like the announcement of,
• 1:00:53
  this is where I want to be.
• 1:00:54
  This is the stage that I want to be at, playing against the best.
• 1:00:58
  And fast forward, second half kicks off.
• 1:01:02
  Within a couple of minutes, I score a goal and we're 1-0 up.
• 1:01:07
  And you just think, wow, how has this happened?
• 1:01:13
  But we were competitive.
• 1:01:14
  We had a good team.
• 1:01:15
  We had a...
• 1:01:17
  They had some of the best players in the world, but we had a real connected, good team that was working together.
• 1:01:24
  And that was the key.
• 1:01:25
  And then, you know, we could finish as well.
• 1:01:27
  I score the goal and it ends up being 1-0.
• 1:01:31
  We've just beat Germany.
• 1:01:33
  Fast forward, the gravity of beating Germany was two months later, I think they're going into the last rounds of the World Cup and they still haven't conceded a goal.
• 1:01:43
  I was the last one to score against them.
• 1:01:44
  So defensively, they were amazing.
• 1:01:47
  And then in the World Cup 2002, I'm watching Ronaldo, Brazilian R9 Ronaldo, destroy them in the World Cup final.
• 1:01:58
  But they were amazing.
• 1:01:59
  I mean, one of the best teams in the world at the time with Brazil.
• 1:02:03
  But it was an amazing night, amazing debut.
• 1:02:06
  I mean, what a way to announce yourself.
• 1:02:09
  And it was just so surreal of...
• 1:02:14
  Just scoring a goal against one of the best teams in the world on your debut for your national team.
• 1:02:21
  And it was awesome.
• 1:02:23
  It was the very, very best thing in the world.
• 1:02:26
  Did you feel like you had more pressure considering where your life began as well?
• 1:02:33
  Whether there was pressure or no pressure, I'm guessing there was.
• 1:02:39
  But I never felt it.
• 1:02:42
  I never felt one bit of it.
• 1:02:45
  I remember the national anthems are playing and I watched Ryan Giggs on TV and some of my teammates on TV before, right?
• 1:02:57
  And I'm playing, I'm in a starting lineup and you line up, the other team is there and the national anthems are playing.
• 1:03:07
  And I remember just kind of looking up and thinking,
• 1:03:11
  looking at the crowd and I was just thinking, this is what it's about.
• 1:03:16
  This is what it's, when you have a dream as a kid and you're thinking, what would I love to do if I couldn't fail, this was it.
• 1:03:25
  And I was looking at the crowd, I looked around and then I looked to my right hand side and one of the best players that I saw, Ryan Giggs, is standing next to me and I was just like, this is it.
• 1:03:37
  This is the best thing ever.
• 1:03:40
  so let's go.
• 1:03:40
  Um, because now it's perform time.
• 1:03:44
  So I didn't have time to think, um, or whether I did, I, I almost put it away.
• 1:03:50
  It was almost like getting, if there was pressure, uh,
• 1:03:53
  Okay, I'll put it in my pocket.
• 1:03:55
  And that's the way I always approach things.
• 1:03:57
  I turned, if there was pressure, I almost turned it into being more excited.
• 1:04:03
  I felt I played good when I was excited.
• 1:04:07
  So I knew that.
• 1:04:08
  It was almost like, okay, pressure, I'll put it in my pocket.
• 1:04:11
  We'll play with it.
• 1:04:12
  I'll play with it.
• 1:04:14
  But I turned it more, I was more excited.
• 1:04:18
  and grateful and thinking, this is your dream.
• 1:04:22
  This is exactly why you want to become a football player.
• 1:04:26
  This is it.
• 1:04:27
  So go and enjoy it.
• 1:04:29
  And I turned it more into thinking about excitement than any pressure.
• 1:04:34
  And we talk about some of the names you've mentioned there.
• 1:04:36
  So obviously Ryan Giggs.
• 1:04:39
  I mean, even for me, that's, you know, as someone that wasn't ever as good as you.
• 1:04:44
  But, you know, you look up to Ryan Giggs and that midfield alone.
• 1:04:48
  Let me just say it.
• 1:04:48
  So you had Simon Davis, right midfield, Robbie Savage and Gary Speed as the center midfielders.
• 1:04:53
  Ryan Giggs on the left.
• 1:04:55
  And then in the striking options, there's so many as well.
• 1:04:59
  How good was it to play in a team like that with so many talented players from different clubs?
• 1:05:06
  It was amazing because I think almost all of them, except for one or two, were playing in the Premier League for different teams.
• 1:05:13
  And I think Chen Hartson was playing at Celtic and...
• 1:05:19
  Ryan Giggs at Manchester United, you know, one of the best in the world.
• 1:05:22
  I think Craig Bellamy was playing in the Premier League.
• 1:05:26
  And even, you know, you talk about the bench and people like Nathan Blake, you know, Robbie Savage, Gary Speed.
• 1:05:34
  Gary Speed, you know, in the top 10 of most appearances in the Premier League.
• 1:05:40
  Yeah.
• 1:05:42
  And, you know, Simon Davis, I think maybe he was at Tottenham at the time, I think.
• 1:05:48
  So a lot of them were Premier League players.
• 1:05:51
  But the good thing is Mark Hughes took over in his first job and he really got us together.
• 1:05:55
  He really got us almost...
• 1:05:59
  working really with his high, you know, football IQ and, and bringing us together as a team.
• 1:06:06
  And, and he, you are, you know, the likes of youngsters like me, I was probably a youngster who had high potential and,
• 1:06:14
  but hadn't played in the Premier League yet because I'm still playing at Cardiff.
• 1:06:17
  So I haven't been bought yet.
• 1:06:20
  I'm moved to the Premier League yet, but I'm playing with Premier League players.
• 1:06:23
  So, but that's where I want to be.
• 1:06:26
  And I think that was amazing to be around because we were a good team and all of a sudden we...
• 1:06:36
  We connected together, but also we played brilliantly together because I think that was probably as close as we got to a major tournament at that time for years and years and years.
• 1:06:49
  I mean, we lost in the playoffs to Russia 1-0, which we should have won in 2003 going into 2004 Euros.
• 1:07:01
  And that was, it was devastating because it felt like this is it that we, I mean, we topped the group for the first five, five, six games, I think, or, uh, yeah, I think four or five games and we were flying and we were doing so well.
• 1:07:14
  So we just didn't have enough towards the end.
• 1:07:18
  Hmm.
• 1:07:19
  But it was a great team, really good time, and I learned so much.
• 1:07:24
  And, I mean, at that time, you're playing with some great, great players.
• 1:07:29
  And I was lucky enough to play in those teams, but then fast forward a few years, then I'm playing with some of the young players that come through and some of those, you know, the Aaron Ramseys and Gareth Bale and those players coming through as well.
• 1:07:43
  So I was lucky to be...
• 1:07:44
  to play with kind of both generations a little bit.
• 1:07:47
  Did you ever feel frustrated looking back that such a talented team didn't make a major tournament?
• 1:07:53
  Yeah.
• 1:07:54
  Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  I've never been as disappointed as I was when we played Russia in 2003 and we lost in the playoffs.
• 1:08:06
  Because it was a two-legged playoff.
• 1:08:09
  We play them away.
• 1:08:10
  We draw nil-nil in the coldest conditions in Russia.
• 1:08:14
  And everybody thought I was going to be playing because I scored goals in that qualifier, in the qualifiers.
• 1:08:19
  And I was then on the bench.
• 1:08:22
  So I don't know what Marcuse did or thought or his idea in that situation.
• 1:08:27
  But we looked more defensive.
• 1:08:30
  And that was probably a mistake.
• 1:08:34
  And it just, it felt like our team was more than good enough.
• 1:08:38
  We were better than Russia at that point.
• 1:08:40
  And at this point, Russia, we're regarded as a quality team in Europe.
• 1:08:45
  So I was devastated.
• 1:08:47
  We were devastated.
• 1:08:48
  And I've never been as devastated, really, after that 1-0 Russia loss in the playoffs.
• 1:08:56
  Did you ever ask Mark Hughes, or since this point now to this day, have you ever asked Mark Hughes why?
• 1:09:03
  No, no, I mean, it was a man of few words anyway, but no, I never asked them.
• 1:09:08
  I guess, you know, you kind of leave it and...
• 1:09:11
  as manager's decision but um yeah i think maybe at some point i'll ask him uh what was what was the thought because you kind of look at those things and sometimes those you know say for example we qualify we go to a major tournament you're playing in a major tournament um at that point you know i'm you know 21 22 maybe and you think wow you know this you know maybe your career
• 1:09:42
  You don't know what could happen, especially when you play in major tournaments.
• 1:09:45
  But that was our chance.
• 1:09:46
  That was our chance.
• 1:09:47
  And it felt as if we struggled after that because it felt as if almost like Wales was too distraught after that for years and years and years.
• 1:10:04
  that not qualifying, that was the one, you know, it felt like we lost something.
• 1:10:10
  And it took a long time, took years to really get it back together again.
• 1:10:15
  No, it really did.
• 1:10:15
  And I think it's probably because of the new generation coming through and players going out as well.
• 1:10:20
  So going back to your club career in 2004, you left Cardiff, you joined West Brom.
• 1:10:27
  How difficult was that moment leaving Cardiff?
• 1:10:30
  Yeah.
• 1:10:30
  So, yeah.
• 1:10:31
  So, I mean, that's the dream you want to play.
• 1:10:33
  So when I came through at Cardiff, I was there for seven years.
• 1:10:39
  Now I was still only, I think still 23, 24 when I, when I get the call that, oh, guess what?
• 1:10:47
  West Brom want you.
• 1:10:48
  They just got promoted to the Premier League.
• 1:10:50
  So now it's a Premier League team wants you.
• 1:10:53
  And at the time I'm scoring goals in the championship and I,
• 1:10:58
  What I didn't know, and I'll tell you what I didn't know after, but at the time, what I knew was, oh, this is your chance to go to play in the Premier League, play against some of the best players in the world.
• 1:11:07
  And, you know, around that time, I'm watching, you know, Jose Mourinho, you know, has just come to Chelsea as the special one.
• 1:11:16
  Arsene Wenger's on the side, you know, at Arsenal, you know, the philosopher.
• 1:11:22
  Alex Ferguson is on the side over here.
• 1:11:24
  And, you know, obviously great teams of the 90s with Manchester United.
• 1:11:30
  So you're seeing legendary people and players all around the Premier League.
• 1:11:36
  And you're watching that every week.
• 1:11:37
  And then West Brom want to sign you.
• 1:11:41
  Now, it took so long.
• 1:11:43
  It took a little bit of time to really make the decision because I was like,
• 1:11:49
  I feel like Cardiff city because at the time Cardiff city were built to go to the premier league.
• 1:11:54
  Sam Hamm at the time was signing players from the premier league who had potential, but the aim was to take Cardiff city almost kind of like what Wrexham are doing right now.
• 1:12:04
  Um,
• 1:12:05
  of taking the Welsh team all the way to the top, all the way to the Premier League.
• 1:12:09
  And that was us.
• 1:12:10
  It's the exact same kind of comparison as Wrexham right now of taking the team to the Premier League.
• 1:12:16
  That was his idea.
• 1:12:18
  And it felt like, well, if I leave now, then maybe when we do do it and get to the Premier League, it'll be with a team that maybe...
• 1:12:28
  it would have been nicer to do it all the way through and play all the way through.
• 1:12:31
  So, um, and at this point I've scored lots of goals for Cardiff city and lots of hat tricks, but I think it was very hard because of that.
• 1:12:40
  It was because of understanding that the amount of years I put into Cardiff city, the amount of time, the amount of energy, the goals, the, the connection with the football club.
• 1:12:48
  And, um, and also this pursuit of, um,
• 1:12:51
  Um, when, when I was starting at with Cardiff city, they were in the bottom division and we, we went through the leagues and we were one step away from the premier league.
• 1:13:03
  So that was very hard.
• 1:13:04
  That was difficult.
• 1:13:05
  But what I didn't know was Sam Amman was really running out of money and he needed to sell me.
• 1:13:13
  I only found this out years later.
• 1:13:15
  He needed to sell me because I was the most expensive player at the time and the one that could demand the most money at the time.
• 1:13:25
  And West Brom came in.
• 1:13:27
  They had a conversation with me and said, you know, do you want to go?
• 1:13:31
  I was like, well, yeah, I do want to play in the Premier League, but it's so hard to leave.
• 1:13:37
  So in the end, I chose playing in the Premier League and I chose the dream of playing at the very, very top.
• 1:13:45
  And that was the idea.
• 1:13:47
  That was why I chose to go to West Brom.
• 1:13:50
  That was why I wanted to go to, I wanted to leave and go play at West Brom.
• 1:13:57
  And, um, yeah, I was, I got some great experiences and played against some great, great players.
• 1:14:05
  And, uh, it was, it was amazing to just feel, you know, because I think there were people say, I'll play in the, in the premier league or, uh,
• 1:14:13
  But when you get to feel the Premier League and see the speed and see the world-class players up close and you're playing against them and you see the things, the amazing things that they do, then you're like, wow, okay, this is special.
• 1:14:29
  But it was hard to leave.
• 1:14:31
  But...
• 1:14:33
  When somebody gives you the chance, sometimes you have to take it.
• 1:14:36
  You finished your first Premier League season as West Brom's top goal scorer with 14 goals in all competitions.
• 1:14:41
  In that season, March 19th, 2005, you came on in the 63rd minute against Charlton and broke the insane record we hear about a lot.
• 1:14:51
  You became the only player in the world to score a hat-trick in the Premier League, the Championship, League One, League Two, the FA Cup, the League Cup and international football.
• 1:15:00
  It's a crazy record to hold.
• 1:15:02
  But did you know that you were actually creating that record when you did it?
• 1:15:06
  I had no idea.
• 1:15:08
  I had no idea.
• 1:15:09
  When I was a kid, the perfect day was I score a hat-trick and take the match ball home.
• 1:15:16
  It was just the way I approach games.
• 1:15:19
  If I get a hat-trick, that's the perfect day.
• 1:15:23
  So when I got to do it in the first team,
• 1:15:27
  It was amazing.
• 1:15:28
  But then fast forward the Charlton game.
• 1:15:30
  So I come on, and this is the great escape West Brom year.
• 1:15:36
  So I came on in, like I said, I came on in the 63rd minute.
• 1:15:41
  I had no idea what records were what, you know, which league I scored them in.
• 1:15:47
  And if I tick this box and tick that.
• 1:15:50
  So I come on, score a hat trick.
• 1:15:53
  I think it was like 17 minutes.
• 1:15:56
  And, um, how it was amazing because it was in the Premier League.
• 1:16:02
  And for me, it was like, that's what I'm there to do.
• 1:16:06
  That's, that's what I want to do.
• 1:16:07
  I want to score hat-tricks in the Premier League.
• 1:16:10
  And, um, so I scored the hat-trick.
• 1:16:12
  We win the game.
• 1:16:14
  Obviously it helps my team.
• 1:16:15
  West Brom is a big win because we need to stay up.
• 1:16:19
  And, uh, at that point, no team had ever stayed up by being bottom at Christmas.
• 1:16:25
  So we were bottom of Christmas and we were struggling in the Premier League and no team had ever come back and stayed in the Premier League and not got relegated.
• 1:16:33
  And we were trying to also achieve that record.
• 1:16:35
  And then that Charlton game, we win the game.
• 1:16:40
  I obviously scored a hat trick.
• 1:16:42
  And then so the interesting thing is I got to do the interviews after.
• 1:16:47
  So I go to the.
• 1:16:48
  interview room and I think it was Chris Kamara was doing the interview and then he goes, so Rob, you now set the record for scoring the Premier League Championship, League One, League Two, the League Cup, the FA Cup and International.
• 1:17:07
  You're the only man to ever do that.
• 1:17:09
  What's your thoughts?
• 1:17:11
  And I kind of paused because that's the first time I actually got to realize that that happened.
• 1:17:17
  So I didn't know that I broke the record and I was the only one to ever do that.
• 1:17:23
  And, um, so it was kind of like, whoa, and then do the interview.
• 1:17:30
  So it was, uh, it was, it was nice.
• 1:17:34
  It was because for me, the.
• 1:17:38
  If I'm a striker, if I'm a forward player, the credit is when you score goals and do your job and do your job multiple times.
• 1:17:46
  So the hat trick was you did it in the best way.
• 1:17:50
  So that was almost like the trophy of saying, well done, you're consistent and you're doing it well enough.
• 1:17:58
  And it's amazing because...
• 1:18:01
  You know, when you fast forward years later and people, so many people now remind me of that because that's one of the first things that comes up, you know, attached to my name is the only person in the world to do that.
• 1:18:12
  And I think, wow.
• 1:18:14
  But now I'm really grateful for it because maybe when you're playing, sometimes you don't think too much about it.
• 1:18:21
  But now I'm really grateful because a lot of people say, wow, you know, you did it in so many competitions.
• 1:18:27
  in England, in, in the UK and international.
• 1:18:31
  And, uh, the only player to do that for me, it's very, very special.
• 1:18:36
  What did you do with all the match balls?
• 1:18:38
  Um, cause there's a lot of them.
• 1:18:40
  There's a few of them.
• 1:18:41
  Yeah.
• 1:18:41
  Uh, I, I, I kept them.
• 1:18:43
  Yeah.
• 1:18:44
  I kept them there.
• 1:18:44
  This, they're still there.
• 1:18:46
  My mom holds a lot of them.
• 1:18:48
  Um, they, yeah.
• 1:18:49
  So, uh, they're still there and, um, being, you know,
• 1:18:55
  I guess on the, on the display.
• 1:18:57
  Do you know how many there are?
• 1:19:00
  Uh, I'm not sure actually I should know.
• 1:19:02
  This sounds like a moment where I'm going to tell you, but I actually don't know.
• 1:19:06
  I don't know.
• 1:19:06
  I actually don't know.
• 1:19:08
  There's a lot.
• 1:19:09
  That season, um, you touched on it then.
• 1:19:11
  So that was the great escape season.
• 1:19:13
  West Brom became the first team in the premier league to avoid relegation after being rock bottom at Christmas.
• 1:19:20
  Um,
• 1:19:20
  You managed to survive.
• 1:19:21
  Obviously, absolute carnage on the pitch.
• 1:19:24
  I can remember this day very well as well.
• 1:19:26
  So Brian Robson, I can remember Kieran Richardson being lifted.
• 1:19:30
  You're there getting grabbed by fans.
• 1:19:32
  What was it like having a manager like Brian Robson in these kind of moments?
• 1:19:38
  Do you know why?
• 1:19:38
  It was, it was interesting.
• 1:19:39
  It was such an interesting team, so many different characters, so many different personalities and, uh, you know, everybody had their own personalities within, within the team, but it was, it was, um, it was an interesting thing because it was, you know, uh, you know, the manager brought some, um, some, some qualities, you know, obviously playing for Manchester United and having a great career, um, really made, I think the, the, you know, the team, um,
• 1:20:07
  you know, have this kind of connection of like, okay, well, no team has ever kind of been bottom at Christmas.
• 1:20:13
  So you've got nothing to lose.
• 1:20:15
  Let's go and try and do it.
• 1:20:16
  Let's go and try and prove people wrong.
• 1:20:18
  You know, you're playing in the Premier League.
• 1:20:19
  This is where you want to be.
• 1:20:20
  So to stay here, you've got to win games.
• 1:20:23
  So there was always a drive and there was always a, you know, a real kind of,
• 1:20:28
  force and drive to do that.
• 1:20:31
  We had so many different personalities within that group and everybody contributed, so many different people, so many different goal scorers, so many different people that did well in so many different games.
• 1:20:40
  So it was brilliant because
• 1:20:44
  at that point, I remember when you're playing against players, you're playing against, you know, I remember we, we, we play Bolton and JJ or Kocher and, um, even like Anelka, uh, people like this.
• 1:20:57
  And you go to, you know, you're playing Liverpool and Xabi Alonso, Gerrard and Torres and, you know, all of these players and you're playing Chelsea and, you know, did
• 1:21:08
  Diadrochba and Lampard and all of these guys.
• 1:21:11
  And even Ian Robin, you know, just great players around.
• 1:21:16
  Manchester United, I mean, you can list 20 players there, but so many, there were so many world-class players and so many quality players playing in the Premier League.
• 1:21:27
  So it was, it made it even more special to do it at that time because of so many world-class players, so many superstars that were playing in the Premier League.
• 1:21:38
  at that time.
• 1:21:39
  But it was, it was great because it was a great experience also great learning as well.
• 1:21:44
  And so there was an interesting there was a gap in the international window.
• 1:21:49
  And I remember, we were okay and got a few decent results.
• 1:21:55
  But we went away to Florida because when you're in a Premier League, the media hype is so much.
• 1:22:02
  And especially when you'll never do it, you'll never do it, they'll never do it, they're not going to.
• 1:22:07
  So it was almost like there was a 10-day gap between internationals, between our games.
• 1:22:13
  And then we went to Florida almost to take a training break.
• 1:22:17
  And we went and trained four or five days over there, came back.
• 1:22:21
  And then from then on, that was one of the best things that ever happened.
• 1:22:26
  I got, uh, I got over there and one of the players that we had was, uh, Kevin Campbell and I played with Kevin Campbell lots and I got to room with him.
• 1:22:35
  Now, Kevin Campbell at this point is played with Ian Wright and one of, you know, I used to love Ian Wright with celebrations and his goals.
• 1:22:41
  I learned so much from watching Ian Wright.
• 1:22:43
  Kevin Campbell played with him.
• 1:22:44
  So it was great to room with somebody like that.
• 1:22:47
  And he tells you the stories and he tells you why and how, and you know, um,
• 1:22:52
  All the inside details of somebody like, you know, I used to say to him, you know, tell me about Ian Wright.
• 1:22:58
  It's finishing and, you know, what's he like?
• 1:23:01
  You know, so it was great to room with somebody like that.
• 1:23:05
  And then we come back and it was almost like a little mini season.
• 1:23:08
  And we went on and we won games.
• 1:23:10
  And I remember the Charlton game, we went and beat them.
• 1:23:13
  And I think we beat Everton.
• 1:23:15
  We drew at Old Trafford.
• 1:23:18
  And you just, it was like...
• 1:23:21
  we're going to do it.
• 1:23:22
  And then we end up doing it.
• 1:23:23
  We end up staying in the Premier League.
• 1:23:25
  And it was amazing.
• 1:23:27
  It was amazing.
• 1:23:28
  But it was also, I always say sometimes the trophies, yeah, there's one trophy for the Premier League winners, but sometimes the trophies are everywhere else scattered where you achieve something that you're not supposed to achieve.
• 1:23:42
  You know, maybe we...
• 1:23:43
  You know, we might've been not good enough at some point during the season, but then we made it that we were good enough.
• 1:23:50
  And sometimes the trophies are for that, that you did something and you achieve something that.
• 1:23:55
  you know, other teams didn't achieve before that.
• 1:23:58
  And sometimes the Premier League teaches you these things that, you know, it's also special when you get to do something you're not supposed to.
• 1:24:07
  And you could see that from the fans as well.
• 1:24:10
  I don't know whether it was celebrating or relief as well.
• 1:24:13
  It was everything.
• 1:24:14
  The emotion that's in football, it really shows in these kind of moments, I feel.
• 1:24:19
  Yeah.
• 1:24:19
  And the crazy thing is when you're faced with,
• 1:24:24
  I remember we go to Old Trafford, the game before the last game of the season.
• 1:24:29
  So the last game is, the last two games is Manchester United away at Old Trafford.
• 1:24:35
  And we have to get something from the game because the way the results went, we get a 1-1.
• 1:24:42
  And then the next game is Portsmouth at home.
• 1:24:45
  And the crazy thing was, we felt that
• 1:24:51
  If we got something from Manchester United at Old Trafford, that was the game that was the hardest game.
• 1:24:58
  And that was the game that we felt that we stayed up.
• 1:25:03
  Because the next game against Portsmouth, we were like, we'll take care of that at home.
• 1:25:07
  We know we'll beat Portsmouth.
• 1:25:09
  But when we got something at Old Trafford, that was the game where it was, ah, it was.
• 1:25:14
  You know, and bear in mind, you know, Ryan Giggs over here, Rio Ferdinand, Scholes, and Cristiano Ronaldo over here.
• 1:25:22
  And that was the game we drew 1-1.
• 1:25:25
  And then the next game, the last game, we beat Portsmouth at home.
• 1:25:31
  And then there's a moment that there's about three or four minutes between our result is done, game over, final whistle, season's over.
• 1:25:42
  We've won 2-0.
• 1:25:44
  But then there's three or four minutes where we don't know the other results.
• 1:25:48
  Now we win, but we need the other results.
• 1:25:52
  So then everybody's looking around and there's 30,000 people on the pitch, fans, players, you know, our, our shirts again, ripped off shorts and people throwing it in players up in the air.
• 1:26:03
  And there's three or four minutes that everybody's kind of just wondering, have we stayed up?
• 1:26:07
  Have we not stayed up?
• 1:26:08
  did the results go for us?
• 1:26:10
  Did they not?
• 1:26:10
  And then there's just an eruption of just excitement that the results came in.
• 1:26:17
  Everybody's listening.
• 1:26:19
  Okay.
• 1:26:20
  Yeah.
• 1:26:21
  Yeah.
• 1:26:21
  We confirmed that the results that came in, then everybody just lost it and just celebration.
• 1:26:26
  And imagine, you know, 30,000 people on the, on the pitch and you're one of the players and everybody's just jumping around and it was just celebration because, um,
• 1:26:36
  it was achieving something that nobody ever did at that time is, is stay in the Premier League when you were bottom at Christmas.
• 1:26:42
  Now the first half was a disaster of a, of a, of a start, you know, for us as a Premier League team in the, in the first half.
• 1:26:49
  But the second half,
• 1:26:50
  we were like, we need to show why we're here.
• 1:26:54
  Then we went and did that.
• 1:26:56
  But it was amazing to do and be, and also because it's the caliber of who you're playing up against as well.
• 1:27:03
  The caliber of who you're playing up against was hard.
• 1:27:06
  And that was also, I guess, the celebration of doing it against some of those players.
• 1:27:12
  At one point in 2006, 2007, you were the championship's leading scorer before you picked up a groin injury.
• 1:27:19
  How did that affect you?
• 1:27:21
  Yeah, it was a real key moment in my career.
• 1:27:25
  And I think some of the hardest things as a football player, and you think about, okay, hard things in... One of the hardest things is when you get something taken away from you.
• 1:27:36
  In anything.
• 1:27:38
  When you get something you really want to do every day and you love doing and you're doing it and then all of a sudden it's taken away.
• 1:27:43
  Now, at that point, I scored 17 goals by Christmas.
• 1:27:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:27:48
  And we're having a training session.
• 1:27:51
  And it's right at the end, and it's the last shot of the training session.
• 1:27:57
  And the ball's laid off, and I go to just curl a ball like I did a thousand times.
• 1:28:02
  And I opened up my groin, and I just felt just a complete detachment.
• 1:28:10
  And my groin came off the bone.
• 1:28:14
  And as I did that, I was like, oh my God.
• 1:28:18
  And I literally dropped to the floor and I couldn't move because my groin literally came off the bone.
• 1:28:24
  And it was, you know, it was hanging on really.
• 1:28:28
  And, um...
• 1:28:29
  That was one of the hardest things because you're there to do something that you love to do.
• 1:28:34
  And then instantly that's taken away.
• 1:28:36
  And because I was doing so well as well, I always say when I was at Norwich, it was one of the most consistent times in my career.
• 1:28:42
  Now, I felt like the same thing.
• 1:28:46
  I felt at Cardiff where I was just scoring goals and everything just clicks.
• 1:28:51
  And it looked as if I was going to score goals.
• 1:28:53
  you know, 40 goals in that season, you know, because it looked as if every single game I was going to score.
• 1:28:58
  Now I get that injury and it took me three months to, to really the hardest thing about that injury was I got back playing really, really quick for the injury that it was because I ripped it off the bone and that's where I,
• 1:29:20
  I got to have the operation and the operation and the doctor says, um, your dad passed away from typhoid fever.
• 1:29:26
  It's so treatable.
• 1:29:28
  And it just, that, you know, was the punch to the gut really because the doctor, he didn't know anything.
• 1:29:34
  He was just talking out loud.
• 1:29:35
  Uh, um, but that was hard on top of the injury and that was harder than the injury.
• 1:29:43
  Of course,
• 1:29:45
  Um, now I got back within three months, but the hardest thing was during that three months, I was literally went from playing scoring goals one week, and then I had to learn how to walk again.
• 1:30:03
  Uh, and I remember, uh,
• 1:30:05
  My mom coming up because for the first two weeks I couldn't move.
• 1:30:10
  For two weeks straight I was in bed.
• 1:30:13
  I couldn't even go to the toilet.
• 1:30:15
  I couldn't.
• 1:30:17
  I mean, it's the groin off the bone.
• 1:30:19
  And I had to have the operation.
• 1:30:21
  And from the operation then it's the recovery.
• 1:30:23
  The recovery for the first two weeks you literally can't move.
• 1:30:27
  And then I had to.
• 1:30:29
  I remember it took me an hour to walk 10 yards to the toilet.
• 1:30:36
  Uh, that, that was a, that was the worst injury I've ever had.
• 1:30:40
  And also the hardest one, because after that I had to learn how to walk.
• 1:30:44
  I had to, I had to literally strength by strength and inch by inch kind of start to, you know, to, to get the strength back again.
• 1:30:54
  And I remember it was just lots of time again on my own to, uh,
• 1:30:59
  you know, to really strengthen it and put the work in every day.
• 1:31:03
  And I remember I'd go to the physio room, you know, by myself, and then he gave me the program, and then the program, part of the program was you go into the gym and do the gym, and then after that, then I had to do...
• 1:31:16
  the walking to strengthen it because the walking is part of, you know, your body getting used to walking and moving again.
• 1:31:24
  And for, I think for about a month I was out just walking in the rain by myself around the training ground,
• 1:31:31
  at Norwich, Norwich's training ground.
• 1:31:34
  And yeah, those, those times are hard because you're on your own and you just, you and get to work and, and to the point of starting to, because normally a lot of injuries are, okay, you, you, you're back moving and you just can't play and you can do quite a few things, but that was literally learning to walk again.
• 1:31:54
  So that was very hard for me.
• 1:31:55
  That was really, really difficult, but yeah.
• 1:31:59
  And not just that is then I was back in three months, but after three months, I actually then managed, had to manage the same injury for two years after that because it was getting infected.
• 1:32:15
  And I guess they had to put like a metal...
• 1:32:21
  attachment in my groin to kind of put it together once they did the operation.
• 1:32:27
  And it didn't react well with my body.
• 1:32:31
  And for the next two years, I was really managing it.
• 1:32:34
  And it didn't feel quite right, even though I was playing, I was back, and technically I was fit, but it just didn't feel like correct.
• 1:32:44
  And I managed it really for two years, up until I got to Nottingham Forest.
• 1:32:50
  a couple of years later.
• 1:32:51
  Yeah, so during this time then, you've moved to Derby, which turned out to be probably the most difficult chapter of your career.
• 1:32:58
  How hard did you find that, knowing you're not scoring the goals that you wanted to be scoring or previously?
• 1:33:05
  Yeah, and that's the thing.
• 1:33:09
  I was managing this injury.
• 1:33:11
  And also on top of that, I went to Derby.
• 1:33:14
  It was literally...
• 1:33:16
  I got the call.
• 1:33:18
  They've accepted a bid.
• 1:33:20
  And do you want to go to Derby?
• 1:33:23
  And at the same time, Derby just got to the Premier League.
• 1:33:26
  Do you want to play Premier League football?
• 1:33:28
  And that's the reason I went.
• 1:33:30
  Now, I guess in hindsight, maybe you choose a different thing.
• 1:33:34
  But at the time...
• 1:33:37
  really realizing that I was managing this injury for all that period of time.
• 1:33:43
  That was difficult.
• 1:33:44
  That was difficult because you also want to do well.
• 1:33:47
  You want to do well in the Premier League.
• 1:33:48
  When you get the chance and you're given the opportunity to play in the Premier League, you want to do well.
• 1:33:53
  But I was managing this injury really up until I got to Nottingham Forest.
• 1:33:59
  Now I stayed for one year at Derby.
• 1:34:02
  Then I moved to Nottingham Forest.
• 1:34:05
  Uh, and then at Nottingham Forest, I had to have another operation.
• 1:34:09
  Um, and then that's when I kind of put it right and, and the injury felt better.
• 1:34:16
  And so, yeah, maybe it's connected.
• 1:34:18
  Maybe it's, you know, I wasn't quite right.
• 1:34:21
  Um, and carrying this injury while I was at Derby and then go to Nottingham Forest and then have the, when I had the second operation is when, uh,
• 1:34:30
  I really felt that I was back to myself again.
• 1:34:32
  Before you actually joined Nottingham Forest, I read online that you considered retiring from Wales international football after the devastation of being left out of the squad.
• 1:34:45
  Did you ever doubt yourself at all during this time or did you just really feel you should have been in that squad?
• 1:34:51
  Oh, I felt I should have been in the squad, yeah.
• 1:34:54
  The...
• 1:34:58
  The reason I said that and the reason that happened was really because I remember finishing a training session and I'm playing in the Premier League.
• 1:35:06
  And normally, like I said, when I played with Premier League players, that quality carried through into the national team.
• 1:35:12
  Now, you can't sign players from everywhere.
• 1:35:15
  You can't go and buy this player, that player.
• 1:35:18
  You have to have the quality that you have from the selection that you have and the players playing at a high level.
• 1:35:25
  Of course, that carries a weight because to reach that level, you have to be at a certain level and certain standard.
• 1:35:32
  And I remember finishing a training session, and at this point I was probably in the national team for about eight years or so, seven years or so.
• 1:35:43
  And then I finished the training session, and it was an international break coming up.
• 1:35:48
  And all of a sudden I...
• 1:35:53
  I see the TV and the TV on the, um, is got the whale squad and my name's not on it.
• 1:35:59
  And that's how I found out that I wasn't in the after seven years or so of almost every, uh, training camp, every international, uh, I found out just on sky sports and on the TV that I wasn't in the next squad and I was left out and I was thinking, well,
• 1:36:18
  how do you leave a Premier League player out of, you know, when he's always been involved?
• 1:36:26
  And, you know, how does that happen?
• 1:36:28
  So that's when I think maybe frustrated at that time.
• 1:36:32
  And I'm thinking, well, I mean, your first reaction is, do I need to...
• 1:36:40
  uh, set a statement and, and, and a statement is, well, I'll pull myself out of it.
• 1:36:46
  Then I'll retire if you don't think that I should be in it because everybody else thinks that you should be in it.
• 1:36:53
  So I think that was the, that was the reason for that.
• 1:36:57
  And, um, yeah, that was John Toschek at the time.
• 1:37:00
  And, um,
• 1:37:02
  And no phone call, no heads up, no, you know, even conversation beforehand to say, listen, I'm going to leave you out.
• 1:37:15
  No, nothing.
• 1:37:15
  I literally found out on the TV.
• 1:37:18
  And I just thought that was a, I guess, unprofessional way.
• 1:37:25
  to announce, you know, that somebody's not going to be in it.
• 1:37:28
  So the first question was always, well, how come a Premier League player, Robert Earnshaw, is not in your squad?
• 1:37:35
  And then the questions were to me, it was, well, when did you find out?
• 1:37:39
  Well, I found out on the TV.
• 1:37:41
  Now that's never the way.
• 1:37:43
  You cannot find out on the TV.
• 1:37:45
  There's no way that you find out on the, on the TV with no phone call.
• 1:37:49
  How much did that hurt you?
• 1:37:51
  Yeah, that hurt me.
• 1:37:51
  Yeah.
• 1:37:51
  Because you're together in it.
• 1:37:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:37:55
  You know, and I'm the same.
• 1:37:57
  The one thing is, the thing that you expect from that is, well, we're together in this.
• 1:38:06
  You know, we're the national team.
• 1:38:08
  We're representing our country to go out and try and win games against other international.
• 1:38:14
  So, you know, so whatever happens, you know,
• 1:38:17
  if I'm in it or not, I'm going to be supporting this team.
• 1:38:20
  I want this team to do well.
• 1:38:22
  But we treated each other with respect also at the same time, especially when nothing has happened.
• 1:38:28
  And that's, that was, that was the hard thing.
• 1:38:30
  I think when nothing happened and there was no reason, and that's, that was, that's, I think that's always harder.
• 1:38:37
  It's just a, it's just a decision of,
• 1:38:40
  I guess, you know, his own thinking.
• 1:38:44
  Yeah.
• 1:38:44
  It's a lot easier when you know why.
• 1:38:46
  Yeah.
• 1:38:47
  Yeah.
• 1:38:47
  It shows though how quickly football can change though because he left Derby then and moved to Nottingham Forest who was their biggest rivals but the goals started coming again.
• 1:38:59
  What actually changed
• 1:39:03
  Just the shirt.
• 1:39:05
  That's literally it.
• 1:39:07
  Just the shirt.
• 1:39:08
  Because even at Derby, I remember scoring against Arsenal.
• 1:39:12
  And Arsenal, one of the top teams, even then.
• 1:39:15
  And you think, yes, how amazing, you know, because you're scoring against one of the best teams.
• 1:39:24
  And I think just the shirt changed, because nothing else changed, really.
• 1:39:27
  Because the way I kind of always looked at it,
• 1:39:31
  And this is a, I guess, when you talk about confidence, it's a personal confidence of knowing what you can and can't do.
• 1:39:38
  Now, scoring goals was my craft.
• 1:39:40
  Now, the amount of times I study the game, and I always mention about scoring goals, scoring goals and being in my position as a striker to score goals and do well.
• 1:39:53
  the amount of times that I studied the game and I treated it, I treated it like it was university.
• 1:39:59
  Like when I study and look at goals and study how to score goals and how to be great at your craft,
• 1:40:10
  I put in those hours.
• 1:40:12
  Now then to put it on the training pitch in actions and repetitions, I did that.
• 1:40:16
  The amount of hours I spent out there.
• 1:40:19
  Now, once you go into a game and, you know, I go to Nottingham Forest, well, you put the shirt on and we had a good young team at that time.
• 1:40:27
  And then I had a really great, great relationship with Colin Calderwood at the time, who was the manager who brought me in, who, um, and we had a brilliant, he had a great way.
• 1:40:38
  And,
• 1:40:39
  I've always been like a bit of a maverick, right?
• 1:40:41
  You've almost kind of got to allow me some freedom, right?
• 1:40:48
  I think with people that kind of a little bit different, you've got to give them some kind of freedom for the creativity, for them to do something that you don't know.
• 1:41:01
  Now...
• 1:41:02
  The interesting thing is he kind of left me to, he gave me a lot of freedom to go and do what I do because he literally said to me, he said, I want you to come here and score goals and be a good influence on the rest of the squad, but go score goals.
• 1:41:18
  Go do what you do.
• 1:41:21
  Now it was a nice conversation because it was almost him saying, now he played as a defender.
• 1:41:27
  He's like, almost like, I don't know
• 1:41:32
  about scoring goals more than you.
• 1:41:34
  It was that kind of conversation.
• 1:41:35
  So go and do that, you know?
• 1:41:38
  And then in the meantime, I'll add, and he added lots of things and he's very good at that.
• 1:41:42
  But in the meantime, it was going to do what you do.
• 1:41:45
  And, um, I think that was nice because when, anytime in my career, I was given a lot of freedom.
• 1:41:51
  Yes.
• 1:41:51
  You were playing within the team.
• 1:41:52
  Yes.
• 1:41:53
  You do this, but you're there to produce.
• 1:41:56
  Yeah.
• 1:41:57
  produce your craft.
• 1:41:58
  My craft was scoring goals.
• 1:42:00
  And I was always doing well when somebody gave me that freedom.
• 1:42:04
  And that was what happened in Nottingham Forest.
• 1:42:07
  And Nottingham Forest is a big, big football club.
• 1:42:09
  You feel the history.
• 1:42:10
  You feel like just the weight of this historical football club.
• 1:42:17
  But it was brilliant.
• 1:42:18
  But I also loved that.
• 1:42:20
  And for me, I've never, I've always enjoyed playing
• 1:42:24
  going to a football club and there's almost that pressure of like, oh, you have to score goals for us.
• 1:42:29
  You know, I kind of love that.
• 1:42:31
  And you actually joined Nottingham Forest with an absolute footballing legend, Andy Cole.
• 1:42:37
  So you were 10 years younger than him.
• 1:42:39
  What was it like having someone like him as another striker in the dressing room?
• 1:42:43
  Oh, brilliant.
• 1:42:44
  Yeah.
• 1:42:44
  Amazing.
• 1:42:45
  Because I saw Andy Cole score goals in the Premier League.
• 1:42:47
  I mean, he was devastating in the Premier League at Newcastle, then at Manchester United winning titles, um, being one of the best goal scorers, um, in the Premier League.
• 1:42:57
  And, um, he signed, um, um,
• 1:43:01
  Yeah.
• 1:43:01
  People don't realize I played with him in, uh, I played with him for a few months because one day he was there and then the next minute he was gone and everybody said, oh yeah, Coley's retired.
• 1:43:13
  Yeah.
• 1:43:14
  Yeah.
• 1:43:15
  And he was, he was literally gone.
• 1:43:16
  Hmm.
• 1:43:17
  But so it's such an interesting, but he was a good guy.
• 1:43:21
  Well, I, for me, it was about watching it.
• 1:43:25
  Anytime I played, I used to love, I loved when players were brilliant at what they did, because I used to love watching them.
• 1:43:36
  Why are they so good?
• 1:43:38
  And even if I'm playing with it, it's always been interesting to me to be like, why is he so good?
• 1:43:43
  What does he do?
• 1:43:45
  Is it because of this?
• 1:43:45
  Is it because of that?
• 1:43:46
  Is it technique?
• 1:43:47
  Is it not technique?
• 1:43:48
  Is it something other?
• 1:43:50
  And then sometimes you see, like I said, the genius of something.
• 1:43:54
  You know, maybe his movement is amazing.
• 1:43:57
  Maybe his ability to read the game is amazing.
• 1:43:59
  Maybe his technique is phenomenal.
• 1:44:01
  But you see these little things up close and then you're like, ah.
• 1:44:05
  that's why, you know, that's what he does.
• 1:44:07
  That's what, you know, so, uh, I, I really enjoyed playing with Andy Cole for, it was literally only, uh, probably six months maybe, but it was, yeah, it was his last club.
• 1:44:19
  Uh, he retired after that, uh, but he came in and played his, uh, I guess, I think it was a family, um,
• 1:44:27
  It was a family decision for him to come to Nottingham Forest.
• 1:44:31
  But good time.
• 1:44:33
  I was lucky enough to play with some excellent players, great players.
• 1:44:37
  And yeah, Andy Cole was one of them at Nottingham Forest.
• 1:44:39
  Yeah, well, you went on to have over 100 appearances at Nottingham Forest, but then you returned back home, back to Cardiff.
• 1:44:47
  Did you feel like when you went back to Cardiff, there was more pressure to be the Earnshaw that everyone remembered?
• 1:44:54
  Yeah.
• 1:44:55
  Yeah.
• 1:44:55
  There was, there was definitely pressure there, but I also loved it.
• 1:44:59
  I enjoyed it.
• 1:45:00
  And, but it was a, it was a different football club.
• 1:45:04
  I think that was the thing.
• 1:45:05
  It was a different football club, different manager, different, different time, uh, even different stadium because it was a, it was a different stadium.
• 1:45:13
  So it was a very different time at that point returning back.
• 1:45:19
  But it was great because the first time when I left, it was done within a few days.
• 1:45:25
  And I always felt that it was difficult because I never got to say goodbye to the Cardiff City fans because I was literally like their son.
• 1:45:35
  When I was on the pitch, it was like their son is playing.
• 1:45:38
  That's the feeling that was always with Cardiff City.
• 1:45:43
  And I never got to kind of say bye.
• 1:45:45
  And that was the reason I retired.
• 1:45:50
  I was in negotiation with Notting Forest.
• 1:45:53
  Then the negotiations broke down.
• 1:45:55
  Actually, Steve McLaren came in as the manager at that time.
• 1:45:57
  I remember going into a meeting with him and having a conversation.
• 1:46:01
  And then for some reason, the contract negotiations broke down.
• 1:46:05
  It wasn't quite right.
• 1:46:06
  Then Cardiff City came in.
• 1:46:07
  Then it was actually at a choice for about three or four teams, three or four in the UK.
• 1:46:15
  But there was a couple abroad as well, including, I think, China at the time.
• 1:46:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:46:22
  And, uh, so I had, I, I spent actually a couple of weeks deciding of, because at this point I was out of contract when I was out of contract, it was okay.
• 1:46:33
  These are the teams really, who do you want to go?
• 1:46:36
  What do you want now?
• 1:46:37
  And, and it was every category and, and maybe this doesn't get kind of.
• 1:46:42
  So imagine a table like this and this glass is China, this glass is so-and-so, this glass is this team and this glass goes to, you know, this is, you choose this and it's going to take you this direction.
• 1:46:57
  And so there's also so many different things.
• 1:47:00
  life choices within that move.
• 1:47:05
  But in the end, I was like, I kind of want to come back and say goodbye to the club, to the team that I started with.
• 1:47:13
  Because I think, I guess maybe after that, I knew that things were going to take me wider.
• 1:47:21
  Now, wider as in, you know, I always wanted, even as a kid, I always wanted to play abroad.
• 1:47:29
  So maybe I knew if I came back to Cardiff after that, most likely I was going to play in different countries also.
• 1:47:36
  But it was great to come back, but it was a different football club, different time.
• 1:47:42
  But I was glad I came back because I got to really...
• 1:47:47
  play in the new stadium, say goodbye to the fans, say goodbye to Cardiff City, and also then just be with those special fans again.
• 1:47:56
  And I use the word pressure because throughout this whole conversation, you never felt any pressure at any point.
• 1:48:02
  And this is the first time by the sounds of it where you may have actually felt that pressure.
• 1:48:06
  Can going back to the club that you grew up playing at ever feel the same?
• 1:48:11
  Yeah.
• 1:48:15
  I think it's always moving, but it's always different.
• 1:48:18
  But I think it can.
• 1:48:22
  I think it can feel, but I think what changed was a lot of what Cardiff City was, changed, you know, the managers, the club, the backroom staff, the board, you know, the things that what made Cardiff City special was,
• 1:48:44
  this team of, yeah, we're trying to get to the top, but there's almost this like, um, crazy.
• 1:48:52
  And it was the crazy gang.
• 1:48:53
  It was the second crazy gang because Sam Herman was our owner.
• 1:48:57
  And it felt as if like this underdog trying to get to the very top and not doing it in a conventional way.
• 1:49:04
  And I felt that it wasn't the same after that.
• 1:49:08
  It wasn't, it didn't feel the same as that core, uh,
• 1:49:14
  we're going all out underdog, but we are the underdog and we're going to make some big shocks along the way, but we, we, we're heading to, to the very, very top.
• 1:49:25
  So I think this is 2012.
• 1:49:28
  It just didn't feel the same.
• 1:49:30
  It didn't feel the same that it was like that.
• 1:49:33
  It had the same spirit, that same character of that.
• 1:49:37
  But you got to say goodbye, which is obviously the main thing for you and what you wanted to do.
• 1:49:41
  Your career eventually takes that change that you mentioned you wanted to do.
• 1:49:46
  You wanted to play abroad.
• 1:49:48
  You went to Israel, Canada and America.
• 1:49:50
  You win the league title with Maccabi, Tel Aviv and finish your career in North America.
• 1:49:56
  You had a pretty crazy time in Israel.
• 1:49:59
  Talk to me about that.
• 1:50:00
  Yeah, I mean, I got, I went on loan because Jody Cruyff was the technical director.
• 1:50:09
  And he called me up literally one Sunday afternoon.
• 1:50:12
  And I guess he obviously saw me play, wanted me to come and play games, really.
• 1:50:21
  And they knew they were getting me on loan.
• 1:50:25
  And at the time, I'm wanting to...
• 1:50:28
  leave Cardiff City and play abroad.
• 1:50:31
  So in the back of my mind, I was like, I want the challenge of playing in a different type of football, different country.
• 1:50:39
  So he called me up on a Sunday afternoon and says, listen, I think the transfer window was closing.
• 1:50:47
  So we have to make decisions very quickly, but I want you to be part of it and come and play with us.
• 1:50:53
  There's a real...
• 1:50:55
  there was a big Spanish influence at that time, that period with the coaches, with some of the players who played in Spain and, and, and just the way they did things was a very much a way of, of from the Spanish philosophy, I guess.
• 1:51:14
  But I, I,
• 1:51:16
  you know, he calls me up on a Sunday afternoon and says, listen, do you want to be part of it?
• 1:51:19
  But the transfer windows is closing soon, so we have to make a quick decision because, you know, you either come or not, really, because we also, there's other players that we want to look at.
• 1:51:31
  And because the foreigner rule at that point, you kind of have to make a decision because it affects the next decision on which type of player that you go to.
• 1:51:40
  So anyway, he calls me up and says, kid, do you want to be part of it?
• 1:51:44
  And I was like...
• 1:51:46
  I don't know.
• 1:51:47
  I don't even know where the club is.
• 1:51:49
  So I obviously, you know, spoke with my agent at the time, thought about it.
• 1:51:55
  And that evening he calls back and says, okay, what's your decision?
• 1:52:01
  And I said, well, I need to play games.
• 1:52:03
  Because at that point,
• 1:52:05
  I wanted to be in the national team as well.
• 1:52:08
  So I wanted to play games.
• 1:52:09
  And you can't go too long without playing games for your club and getting 20 minutes here and not playing...
• 1:52:18
  Enough minutes that you're match fit properly, that you can really do well for the national team.
• 1:52:25
  So I was like, yeah, I think it would be a good experience to come and work with you guys.
• 1:52:32
  And then I decided to go, and it was literally in an afternoon.
• 1:52:36
  And I guess maybe in football, that's something that kind of doesn't get talked about.
• 1:52:40
  And that wasn't the first time then I was going to move...
• 1:52:44
  and decide within a few hours.
• 1:52:47
  So I got the call that morning on a Sunday.
• 1:52:52
  In the evenings, decisions made.
• 1:52:55
  By Wednesday, I'm at a brand-new training ground, ready for a game on the weekend.
• 1:53:02
  I had a couple of training sessions, and then all of a sudden I'm in a different country.
• 1:53:07
  And then a couple of weeks later, everything's fine.
• 1:53:10
  A couple of weeks later, sirens go off.
• 1:53:13
  And I'm like, what's going on?
• 1:53:15
  And at that point, then, this was the time that...
• 1:53:20
  the missiles were coming into Tel Aviv where the team trained.
• 1:53:27
  And that's where the war, you know, really escalated and went off.
• 1:53:32
  And at the time, I was like, what's going on?
• 1:53:36
  But we take, you know, we had to take cover on the side of the buildings.
• 1:53:39
  And, you know, there's rockets, missiles and every day for a few weeks.
• 1:53:45
  And, you know, it's crazy that, you know,
• 1:53:49
  When I went there, I went there just to play football, stay match fit, and then, of course, come back and try and get, you know, be ready for the national team.
• 1:53:59
  But I went to play football, but ended up being in a war and a war I wasn't part of.
• 1:54:07
  And that was that was the crazy part of going to play at Maccabi Tel Aviv.
• 1:54:13
  Did you find that quite scary?
• 1:54:14
  Yeah.
• 1:54:15
  Oh yeah.
• 1:54:15
  Yeah.
• 1:54:16
  I mean, it was, everything was, you know, for, for weeks, it was missiles in the sky, um, buses getting blown up, buildings getting, uh, blown up, shrapnel getting, you know, you know, dropped, um, on, on cars and things like this.
• 1:54:34
  So it was, uh,
• 1:54:37
  Not regularly as if you see everything, but it was around.
• 1:54:41
  And yeah, after a few months, that's when, you know, my loan was done and we were out of there.
• 1:54:50
  Were you desperate to get out of there at that point?
• 1:54:54
  So the interesting thing, I had some, you know, I made friends in the team, a Spanish guy, Gonzalo Garcia, was a good friend of mine and he's Uruguayan Spanish, but he, he was, you know, I didn't want to, I got on so well with, with, with my friends there and.
• 1:55:19
  In the end, yes.
• 1:55:21
  In the end, it was about, this is not what I'm part of.
• 1:55:24
  This is not for me.
• 1:55:27
  I'm a football player trying to play football, and I'm in the middle of dodging missiles and
• 1:55:37
  listening to sirens every day.
• 1:55:39
  That's not what it's about.
• 1:55:42
  I mean, that's absolutely mental.
• 1:55:44
  But for most of your life, people have known you as Rob Earnshaw, the footballer.
• 1:55:48
  Who are you without football now?
• 1:55:52
  Well, I think the biggest thing for me is I'm very much about the most important things in life.
• 1:56:04
  And the most important things for me in life is, you know, your family, your relationships, uh, your health, your, uh, what is your calling day to day?
• 1:56:18
  Uh.
• 1:56:20
  Now, you know, professionally, I guess a lot of people now see me on, um, analyzing games and, uh, I don't like the word pundit.
• 1:56:31
  I like more, uh, analyst or personality.
• 1:56:34
  Uh, I guess I'm a football personality.
• 1:56:37
  I think that's probably what a lot of people see me on the sky sports and BBC.
• 1:56:41
  And now I'm freelance, so I have not, uh, I work with everybody really.
• 1:56:45
  And, but it's nice because, um, yeah.
• 1:56:48
  I coached for a little bit, then professionally now I guess I'm seen as a media personality and not an influencer like you.
• 1:57:00
  Yet, maybe, I don't know.
• 1:57:04
  But yeah, I think these days I really pay attention to life first.
• 1:57:09
  and then everything else second.
• 1:57:12
  And you said, you know, I've lived like three lives.
• 1:57:17
  I feel like I'm going into my fourth.
• 1:57:19
  Now, I think when you kind of have experiences and things happen in your life,
• 1:57:27
  And lots and lots of experiences.
• 1:57:29
  And like I said, you know, I lived in six different countries and I've moved everywhere all around the world.
• 1:57:36
  You know, I've lived in Canada twice.
• 1:57:38
  I've lived in America three times.
• 1:57:41
  I've spent so much time everywhere traveling around the world.
• 1:57:44
  And I think now I make sure I love my kids.
• 1:57:52
  my wife and my family.
• 1:57:55
  And also the other thing is we're not here forever.
• 1:57:59
  So every day is, I try and look after my health in some way.
• 1:58:05
  And I probably train just as much now as I did in my football career.
• 1:58:10
  So I think I had a period, and it's very hard.
• 1:58:13
  And I'll talk a bit about this because I think a lot of people kind of go through it when you change careers and, you know, you go from one career to another, or maybe you have a change of circumstances.
• 1:58:25
  And then, you know, I went through a period of...
• 1:58:29
  you know, yeah, who am I after, you know, I was a football player, but then what do I do now?
• 1:58:35
  You know, and the thing about being a football player is nobody's telling you what time you've got to be in, what you've got to eat, how you structure your day, how, you know, what are you doing today, tomorrow, next week, tomorrow.
• 1:58:52
  All that just kind of goes away from structure, structure, structure and timings.
• 1:58:56
  And you see the physio this time, trainings this time, games this time, you know, your schedule for almost the year and all of these things to zero.
• 1:59:05
  Now I went through a period where it was like, whoa, I've got to find myself here.
• 1:59:08
  I've got to find myself.
• 1:59:10
  you know, who I am, what I, what I want to do now.
• 1:59:13
  I, I, I coached a little bit, um, and use that process to find myself a little bit.
• 1:59:21
  And then fast forward a few years later, I, I, uh, I'm now kind of started doing media and with media.
• 1:59:30
  Um, I work within the game of football.
• 1:59:33
  Um, and, uh,
• 1:59:35
  I think that's really interesting and I find it gives me a real pleasure.
• 1:59:41
  But at the same time then, off camera, I'm really big on, you know, we're not here forever.
• 1:59:51
  So I take care of this, this, and this.
• 1:59:58
  And what I mean by that is, you know, every day, for example, I do something for the mind.
• 2:00:08
  learn something, do something, work, whatever it is.
• 2:00:12
  Um, something for the body.
• 2:00:13
  I go to the gym every day.
• 2:00:15
  I, I work, work out every day.
• 2:00:17
  I exercise every day.
• 2:00:18
  And then something for the soul, you know, relationships pair, you know, um, uh, mom and brothers, sisters, this, you know, family relationships, people.
• 2:00:28
  Um, so I try and take care of those things.
• 2:00:31
  And then who am I is, I'm still finding myself.
• 2:00:35
  Um,
• 2:00:36
  I have this thing where I am always trying to improve.
• 2:00:44
  I don't know if that's amazing or a curse, but I see it as positive.
• 2:00:50
  But there's always a constant improvement in,
• 2:00:53
  And, uh, that's what I kind of do every day.
• 2:00:57
  Uh, there's things that I'm always trying to get better at be, can I be better at this, that, and there's certain things in my life that I want to improve on still.
• 2:01:08
  And, um, that's kind of what I do every day as well as, uh, really put time into, uh, as much as possible, my, my kids and, uh,
• 2:01:23
  Yeah, it's a hard one to answer when you say, you know, who am I?
• 2:01:28
  Because I think the thing that I've detached happily is everybody, I think a lot of people like to attach who they are with what they do.
• 2:01:42
  Mm hmm.
• 2:01:44
  I've learned this because I was the same.
• 2:01:48
  Now you attach maybe being a football player to who you are.
• 2:01:53
  And I do this, and this is who I am.
• 2:01:55
  Now, I think there was always, I had periods that felt the same, but
• 2:02:01
  But I was always fighting against it, you know, and there was always a feeling inside of me of like, that's not really who I am.
• 2:02:07
  I'm not just a football player.
• 2:02:09
  And there was always a fight, even though you are and you're the football player.
• 2:02:13
  But I think there's always a, for me, there was always a fight of, yeah, I don't want to be just a football player.
• 2:02:19
  So I've got comfortable with that now.
• 2:02:23
  So I've been a football player.
• 2:02:26
  I'm now a media personality, but that's not who I am.
• 2:02:29
  And I love to not just be one thing.
• 2:02:33
  And I think that's the, you know, people sometimes be like, oh, this is what he does and this is who he is.
• 2:02:40
  For me, I've always had an issue with that.
• 2:02:43
  Even when now, you know, people introduce me, oh, this is Rob, he's a football player.
• 2:02:48
  And I kind of always had like a little...
• 2:02:52
  not nice feeling about that because for me it was like, no, no, I'm more than that.
• 2:02:57
  I, I do so many other things more than just play football.
• 2:03:03
  Um, I played football for a few hours in the day.
• 2:03:06
  Then it's the other few hours.
• 2:03:07
  I mean, I,
• 2:03:08
  So, um, I, I, uh, I like to enjoy and do things that maybe I never got to have the chance to do and enjoy and learn and be when I was just playing football and busy and your time is taken up.
• 2:03:25
  Um, and, or also the energy, um, that you didn't have now, maybe I have it now to do other things.
• 2:03:35
  Um, yeah.
• 2:03:36
  I think, you know, the things that I like to do, the things that I enjoy now, and the things that I enjoy have to every day bring value.
• 2:03:46
  So I look at it as like, it has to bring value.
• 2:03:50
  I'm not going to just do something just to do it or just...
• 2:03:56
  you know, just go about the day and have no idea of the things that I want to kind of achieve in the day.
• 2:04:03
  Every day generally is about achieving.
• 2:04:07
  Now, I heard this thing in a Japanese kind of way called Kaizen.
• 2:04:12
  Do you know what Kaizen is?
• 2:04:15
  No, I don't.
• 2:04:20
  Kaizen is the process of constant improvement.
• 2:04:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:04:25
  So whatever it is, it could be, for example, right now I love to play chess, right?
• 2:04:30
  So I enjoy and love to play chess, right?
• 2:04:35
  And...
• 2:04:37
  it's, I'm choosing chess as an example because every day there's a constant trying to improve it, you know?
• 2:04:45
  So Kaizen is the, is the constant improvement of whatever you're going to do.
• 2:04:49
  Like, for example, when I go into the gym now, I want to be better at the gym.
• 2:04:52
  I want to be fitter in the gym.
• 2:04:54
  I want to, um, I want to,
• 2:04:56
  you know, tweak things.
• 2:04:56
  So it's just a little bit better than yesterday, a little bit better than six weeks ago.
• 2:05:01
  Um, when I, when I do that and, you know, when I'm at home or with relationships, uh, I want to be trying to be better a little bit at communicating or a little bit better at understanding somebody and then knowing what to say, what to do or not say something at all, uh, because they just want to be heard or something, you know, and try to, so, uh,
• 2:05:24
  The idea of Kaizen, when I heard it, I was like, that's the words to what I'm thinking.
• 2:05:30
  I like that.
• 2:05:31
  That's described what I'm thinking.
• 2:05:33
  So it's the constant improvement or constant small improvements in what you do.
• 2:05:40
  I think everything that you've just said there sums up why you've had such a successful career and why you're so good at what you do.
• 2:05:48
  Yeah.
• 2:05:49
  I mean, trying to be better all the time from my point of view, I think can only be a positive.
• 2:05:56
  But I do hear what you're saying.
• 2:05:57
  I hear what you're saying.
• 2:05:58
  Some people are really tiring.
• 2:06:00
  It can be tiring.
• 2:06:00
  I don't know how you do it, but, um, but I, I love it because I love it.
• 2:06:05
  I, I, I realized that I've approached, uh, uh, most things this, the, with that idea of, uh, the process of constant improvement because, um,
• 2:06:19
  For example, people talk to me about goals.
• 2:06:22
  Oh, you know, it's got loads of goals and you achieve this.
• 2:06:24
  And it's like, yeah, but I loved the process of, I spent six hours a day training and the next day, four hours.
• 2:06:35
  And then the next day, another six hours.
• 2:06:37
  And we spent an hour just shooting on this specific technique.
• 2:06:44
  And I loved that.
• 2:06:46
  I loved that process of training.
• 2:06:50
  I know when I'm, you know, level zero here.
• 2:06:55
  And then when I'm level two, you know?
• 2:06:59
  Yeah.
• 2:06:59
  And I feel that.
• 2:07:01
  I mean, most people maybe can connect that when you, when you start something,
• 2:07:08
  And any, like anything, right?
• 2:07:09
  Once you start something, anything large, anything meaningful, anything that you want to do, um, you know, maybe this podcast, for example, you want to, you want to be brilliant at it.
• 2:07:20
  Right.
• 2:07:20
  And you start and later on you'll be like, oh, I can't believe I was like this and this went this way or whatever, but anything large, anything meaningful that you do.
• 2:07:30
  And at the beginning of it, you feel, you know, overwhelmed and then
• 2:07:38
  you know, part two is okay.
• 2:07:40
  Then you get frustrated and a little bit of anger.
• 2:07:43
  Now the first two always happen before step three.
• 2:07:49
  Step three is those first two happen just before you learn something, just before you succeed and you feel great and you feel brilliant.
• 2:08:01
  Now I enjoy those processes.
• 2:08:03
  Now it's not easy, but I enjoy those processes of, um,
• 2:08:07
  I was like this or this is the level I was on this.
• 2:08:11
  Now I'm this.
• 2:08:13
  And I love that I went from this to this.
• 2:08:16
  Yeah.
• 2:08:16
  It's like a transformation journey.
• 2:08:18
  Yeah.
• 2:08:18
  So I really, I've really always enjoyed that.
• 2:08:21
  And even maybe goal scoring.
• 2:08:24
  And I feel like I never ended getting better before.
• 2:08:29
  I feel like there's more.
• 2:08:31
  I feel like now the way I think, I feel like I'm a better goal scorer now that I've retired than when I was scoring goals.
• 2:08:41
  So that's how I feel because I constantly am like looking, learning, watching and little details and understanding a little bit more.
• 2:08:49
  So I'm like,
• 2:08:52
  I feel like I would be better now.
• 2:08:55
  Yeah.
• 2:08:56
  I don't know.
• 2:08:57
  But I enjoy that.
• 2:08:58
  What I'm trying to say is that, is that like idea of,
• 2:09:02
  of what happens now based on years ago is enjoyable.
• 2:09:11
  Thank you for obviously sharing that.
• 2:09:12
  Before we close up, we're going to have a bit of fun, right?
• 2:09:16
  Throughout your career, you played with a number of leaders that capped in club or country.
• 2:09:23
  Listen to this list.
• 2:09:24
  It's actually astonishing.
• 2:09:25
  You play with Ryan Giggs, Aaron Ramsey, Craig Bellamy, Gary Speed, Robbie Savage, Kevin Campbell, Dion Dublin, Wes Morgan, Ashley Williams.
• 2:09:33
  That's just a few.
• 2:09:34
  The list could go on.
• 2:09:36
  If you had to pick one player to be your captain in a cup final, who would it be?
• 2:09:42
  It doesn't have to be one of them.
• 2:09:43
  It could be another one.
• 2:09:44
  But they're the names that I picked out.
• 2:09:46
  Oh, wow.
• 2:09:49
  Wow.
• 2:09:51
  one player to be your captain in a cup final.
• 2:09:56
  I mean, for different reasons.
• 2:09:58
  If I'm picking somebody I want to win me a game, I'm picking Gareth Bale.
• 2:10:06
  But a great leader, a great person, great leader, Gary Speed.
• 2:10:12
  He was special.
• 2:10:13
  He was really, really special.
• 2:10:15
  What was he like off the pitch?
• 2:10:17
  Um, so interesting, such a, he was a personality and also quiet at the same time.
• 2:10:26
  It's so interesting that, uh, he was, he was, he was amazing because he was so helpful and, but at the same time, and, and so soft in, in certain ways.
• 2:10:39
  but at the same time, so strong in other ways.
• 2:10:43
  And I mean it in terms of if we didn't do well in the dressing room or a game or something's happened, he didn't wait for the manager.
• 2:10:51
  He almost will say it with strength.
• 2:10:57
  what needed to happen, what was going wrong, who's not doing what.
• 2:11:00
  But at the same time, he could be the softest one where you put your arm around you and say, it's okay, keep going, keep going.
• 2:11:07
  But you respected whichever.
• 2:11:09
  And it didn't matter that whatever he said, absolutely we go with it.
• 2:11:14
  Because he was very much, he understood what needs to be said, what happens.
• 2:11:21
  So he was amazing.
• 2:11:22
  Could you ever see him at that time becoming the Welsh manager?
• 2:11:27
  Yeah.
• 2:11:27
  Good.
• 2:11:28
  When I was playing with Gary Speed, I, um, uh, me and Danny Gabadon used to room together and sometimes you'll come through and you'll, you'll come through our room and you'll say something or he's looking for somebody.
• 2:11:40
  Have you seen so-and-so?
• 2:11:40
  And then, um, you know, we'll have a small conversation or you come in the, in the physio room and, um.
• 2:11:48
  with the Wales camps, and he'll come through.
• 2:11:52
  And we always joked and called him gaffer, as in, you know, the manager.
• 2:11:59
  Because he just, he had the aura.
• 2:12:01
  He had aura, he had personality, he had the strength, he had almost like the...
• 2:12:07
  he was kind of like a manager before he was an official manager.
• 2:12:11
  And I always say he changed world Wales, a Welsh football.
• 2:12:17
  He completely changed Welsh football because he connected everything, but also not connected everything.
• 2:12:22
  He made improvements in every area of Welsh football that needed to be done in order for the whole nation to, to come together and, um,
• 2:12:32
  you know, go and do some amazing things at the Euros in 2016.
• 2:12:37
  And, you know, then Euros and World Cups, and all of a sudden we're qualifying for tournaments when it went for so long.
• 2:12:47
  It wasn't by accident.
• 2:12:49
  He did so much.
• 2:12:52
  So amazing, amazing human being, amazing guy, but also as a football coach.
• 2:13:00
  uh he had such a high potential and those those foundations now have created some of our greatest memories as welsh people um i've got a bit of trivia during your football career you loved the somersault after scoring we've somehow not spoken about this right this this whole thing really do you know how many somersaults you actually performed during your senior career
• 2:13:24
  That's one of the best questions I've ever had in my life.
• 2:13:27
  I think, I don't know.
• 2:13:28
  I mean, I know the amount of goals I scored.
• 2:13:33
  And we need to update Wikipedia because we went through it one day.
• 2:13:37
  And it was, I think it was 500 and...
• 2:13:42
  I think 579 appearances in football and I think 236 goals.
• 2:13:50
  So it's 236.
• 2:13:51
  That's what we went through and counted officially or unofficially.
• 2:13:56
  I can confirm 236 goals is your goal number based on my own research.
• 2:14:01
  But the amount of somersaults you did from what I can find is 199.
• 2:14:08
  Okay.
• 2:14:09
  So.
• 2:14:09
  Interesting.
• 2:14:10
  37 goals.
• 2:14:11
  You didn't do the somersault according to my research.
• 2:14:14
  Yeah, there was a few.
• 2:14:17
  The time when I never did the somersault was if we were like more than a two goal difference in a game.
• 2:14:26
  Say we were...
• 2:14:28
  If we were 2-0 down, I scored and it's 2-1 and the game's close.
• 2:14:32
  Okay, then I did it because everybody expected it.
• 2:14:34
  We're close.
• 2:14:35
  Okay, let's go.
• 2:14:36
  Then we try and win the game.
• 2:14:37
  But when it was like time to not do the somersault and, you know, let's get back to that halfway line.
• 2:14:43
  If we can score another one, then okay, game on.
• 2:14:46
  Let's get it closer.
• 2:14:48
  Or when we were completely battered.
• 2:14:51
  Well, now I've told you it's 199.
• 2:14:52
  Yeah.
• 2:14:55
  If we were to put you in a legends match, could you still perform it and hit 200?
• 2:15:02
  Yes.
• 2:15:03
  Hopefully it's this week.
• 2:15:05
  So this week I'm playing in the game for hope at Everton.
• 2:15:10
  So it's the Merseyside, so Liverpool Everton Merseyside 11 against the rest of the world.
• 2:15:16
  And I'm playing for the rest of the world.
• 2:15:20
  Now, Tim Cahill is captain in the Merseyside team.
• 2:15:24
  And there will be some stars that have played for Liverpool and Everton for that.
• 2:15:30
  And then the rest of the world is, you know, I'm part of the rest of the world team.
• 2:15:33
  And also, you know, influencers and actors and musicians and some real stars going to play in that game this week.
• 2:15:44
  So Rivaldo was one of the players that I love to watch and looked up to when I was younger.
• 2:15:50
  So...
• 2:15:50
  Hopefully this week is the week that there's 200 somersaults.
• 2:15:55
  What's amazing about this is this episode will go out after this so we can have a look if it happens.
• 2:16:01
  And we can obviously update it.
• 2:16:03
  Or I'll just do it anyway.
• 2:16:04
  It's or not.
• 2:16:07
  Just do the so-as-alt say you hit 200.
• 2:16:10
  Like I said, according to Google, you scored 236 goals based on our research.
• 2:16:15
  Can you name four of your former teammates who scored more than 200 senior goals as well?
• 2:16:23
  Four of my former teammates?
• 2:16:25
  There's only four.
• 2:16:27
  Oh.
• 2:16:28
  It is 100.
• 2:16:29
  Andy Cole.
• 2:16:30
  Andy Cole, 290 goals.
• 2:16:36
  Dion Dublin?
• 2:16:37
  No.
• 2:16:37
  No.
• 2:16:39
  Kevin Campbell?
• 2:16:40
  No.
• 2:16:43
  Unless my statistics are wrong, of course.
• 2:16:45
  But I've got four.
• 2:16:48
  Four.
• 2:16:48
  I actually don't know.
• 2:16:50
  Okay, so we've mentioned two out of the remaining three, we've mentioned their names during this.
• 2:16:59
  Two of them are Welsh.
• 2:17:01
  One of them is Scottish.
• 2:17:08
  One of them is Scottish, anyone I can think of.
• 2:17:12
  Kenny Miller?
• 2:17:13
  Kenny Miller is correct.
• 2:17:14
  So Andy Cole, Kenny Miller.
• 2:17:16
  Not Craig Bellamy, is it?
• 2:17:17
  It's not Craig Bellamy.
• 2:17:19
  There's an insanely obvious one.
• 2:17:23
  Scored over 200 goals.
• 2:17:25
  In their senior career, including Wales, this is.
• 2:17:31
  I'm struggling with that one.
• 2:17:33
  Do you want me to give you them?
• 2:17:34
  Yeah.
• 2:17:35
  Gareth Bale.
• 2:17:36
  Gareth?
• 2:17:37
  I was going to say him, but I was like... Again, this is purely based on what I find.
• 2:17:42
  This could be wrong.
• 2:17:43
  I hope it's right.
• 2:17:44
  I should have said it.
• 2:17:44
  It could be wrong.
• 2:17:45
  But Gareth Bale, I called it...
• 2:17:46
  He was the one I was going to say, but then I was like, no.
• 2:17:49
  226 goals.
• 2:17:50
  Okay.
• 2:17:50
  Which is unbelievable.
• 2:17:53
  And then John Hartson totaled at 211.
• 2:17:56
  He's the other one, yes.
• 2:17:57
  Yeah, so that's the four.
• 2:17:59
  So Andy Cole, Kenny Miller, Gareth Bale, and John Hartson.
• 2:18:02
  Amazing.
• 2:18:03
  So you played with four players that scored over 200, and of course you were 236.
• 2:18:07
  At the start, I asked you, who inspired you growing up?
• 2:18:11
  If I was to ask you that again now, who inspires you now?
• 2:18:15
  The principles are still the same.
• 2:18:18
  Who inspires me now?
• 2:18:21
  Magnus Carlsen, the chess player.
• 2:18:24
  The best chess player in the world.
• 2:18:27
  Who inspires me now?
• 2:18:28
  I think somebody of great character and has some genius in them.
• 2:18:42
  Okay.
• 2:18:42
  So the principle is still the same.
• 2:18:45
  But I think it's a little bit harder now.
• 2:18:48
  because you haven't got the Muhammad Ali's, you haven't got the Michael Jackson's, you haven't got the Prince, those, some of those guys where, you haven't got the Bruce Lee, you know, you haven't got people that are so insanely genius in what they do as much.
• 2:19:11
  But there's a lot of people that I love what they do.
• 2:19:14
  I think they're amazing.
• 2:19:18
  It's hard, I think I'm big into music, so a lot of, maybe musicians, when I look at somebody like, I don't know, Pharrell, Pharrell Williams, I love Pharrell, I love what he does in not just music, creativity, he can do so much, different areas, different industries, he's amazing at what he does.
• 2:19:47
  there's probably a few, there's a few others, maybe for the next episode.
• 2:19:53
  We'll come back to it.
• 2:19:54
  Rob, you scored hundreds of goals, a legend for your country, represented clubs around the world, broken records that will never be matched.
• 2:20:02
  I don't think that record will ever be matched.
• 2:20:04
  Yeah.
• 2:20:05
  But I don't think you realise the impact you've had on Welsh kids growing up, especially kids of colour.
• 2:20:10
  I grew up as a Welsh boy, obsessed with Man United.
• 2:20:14
  My first Wales shirt in 2000, 2002, was the Kappa shirt, and I had number seven on the back.
• 2:20:21
  I only ever owned one Premier League shirt that wasn't at Man United, and it was a West Brom shirt with number 34 on the back.
• 2:20:28
  No way.
• 2:20:28
  Robert Earnshaw.
• 2:20:29
  So I used to attempt somersaults on a trampoline and shout Earnshaw at the top of my voice.
• 2:20:34
  So this has been a huge honour for me.
• 2:20:37
  For the next kid growing up in Wales, wanting to be a footballer, if you could leave one piece of advice, what would it be?
• 2:20:45
  I appreciate that, by the way, because...
• 2:20:50
  I think it's nice when you leave something for somebody else, when like an influence, when whether you know it or not, uh, because lots of people left influences for me to become something of what I enjoy doing.
• 2:21:06
  Um, so I appreciate what you said.
• 2:21:09
  If I was going to leave some advice right now, um, um,
• 2:21:15
  It's a really nice thing that I, I heard recently.
• 2:21:21
  Um, you know, so for example, if I ask you a question, if you, if you went to the gym, uh, so if you didn't go to the gym and put some resistance in your muscles, um, would you expect your muscles to grow?
• 2:21:39
  No.
• 2:21:41
  Okay.
• 2:21:41
  So if you didn't read and study things, would you expect your mind to, to grow and be more intelligent, understand better?
• 2:21:52
  No.
• 2:21:53
  Okay.
• 2:21:53
  Well, if you didn't travel and experience and, and understand different people, would you expect your perspective to grow and be wider and more understanding and, um,
• 2:22:08
  No, you probably wouldn't.
• 2:22:10
  So the idea is you have to do those things in order to be better, to grow, to have a better perspective, to be more understanding.
• 2:22:24
  Because what you go through, you grow through.
• 2:22:29
  So in order to do something great in life, you have to do the thing to become great at the thing.
• 2:22:39
  So you, in order to do anything special, you have to go through it to grow through it.
• 2:22:46
  So that's what I would leave.
• 2:22:47
  You have to go through what you go through, you grow through.
• 2:22:52
  I love that.
• 2:22:53
  Rob Irnshaw, Welsh legend.
• 2:22:56
  Thank you very much.
• 2:22:57
  Pleasure.
• 2:22:59
  Amazing.
• 2:23:00
  Amazing.