Latest / The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness / Men’s Journey to Strength and Healing | Jeff Low on Finding Connection, Growth, and Authentic Community revisited

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Men’s Journey to Strength and Healing | Jeff Low on Finding Connection, Growth, and Authentic Community revisited · The Observatory | Discovery of Consciousness & Awareness

0:03
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Observatory Podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: With your hosts, Scott and LaRae Wright.
0:08
Speaker 1: Join us each week as we explore living life from
0:11
Speaker 1: the inside out. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast. Today,
0:20
Speaker 1: Rae and I are going to sit down in our
0:22
Speaker 1: home for a beautiful conversation with our friend, Jeff Lowe.
0:26
Speaker 1: We met Jeff about six, eight months ago, and he
0:31
Speaker 1: has had some really powerful transformations in his life and
0:35
Speaker 1: has been creating some beautiful spaces for men. And we're
0:40
Speaker 1: going to talk about that. He calls it bonded brotherhood.
0:45
Speaker 1: And it's something we're going to be going into and
0:48
Speaker 1: talking about here. So please sit back, relax, and enjoy
0:51
Speaker 1: this conversation with Jeff Lowe. Welcome back to the Observatory Podcast.
0:57
Speaker 1: We're sitting in our home today with our friend Jeff Lowe. Jeff,
1:01
Speaker 1: welcome to our home. Welcome, Jeff.
1:04
Speaker 3: Thank you, guys. I appreciate you having me here. Very comfortable.
1:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great to have you here. And Jeff is
1:11
Speaker 2: joining us from Cache Valley, which is just a little
1:13
Speaker 2: bit north of Bountiful in the state of Utah. So
1:18
Speaker 2: thank you for making the drive down.
1:20
Speaker 3: Oh, of course. Anything for you guys.
1:22
Speaker 1: My alma mater. I went to Utah State, so I
1:26
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time in Logan. That area is
1:28
Speaker 1: so beautiful.
1:29
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely beautiful. Yeah, my wife and I both graduated
1:32
Speaker 3: from Utah State as well. Yeah. So it's a beautiful,
1:34
Speaker 3: beautiful valley. We almost moved away when I graduated from college,
1:39
Speaker 3: and then I had a moment of clarity and thought,
1:42
Speaker 3: we will figure it out. I want to stay here,
1:45
Speaker 3: and we've been lucky to be able to raise our
1:46
Speaker 3: kids there.
1:47
Speaker 2: Oh, that's awesome.
1:48
Speaker 3: It's a beautiful place.
1:49
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so, you know, the outdoors around that area,
1:54
Speaker 1: and there's camping and fishing and hiking and hunting and
1:58
Speaker 1: all the things. I grew up that way. We grew
2:01
Speaker 1: up just over the mountain from there in the Bear
2:03
Speaker 1: Lake Valley. So it's just over the mountain from where
2:05
Speaker 1: you are. Were you born there? Did you grow up there?
2:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was born and raised in Smithfield. So I've
2:10
Speaker 3: been in the same little town for 49 years now. Wow. Yeah.
2:15
Speaker 3: Like I said, I had a job offer. We were
2:17
Speaker 3: moving to Arizona and I actually went and looked for
2:20
Speaker 3: an apartment. And as we were coming back, I thought,
2:24
Speaker 3: You know what? As I drove into the valley, as
2:27
Speaker 3: I've done a million times, and I see right as
2:30
Speaker 3: you come in through the canyon and the valley opens up,
2:35
Speaker 3: and I've seen it a thousand times, but that one
2:38
Speaker 3: day I was just overcome. I thought, I want to
2:40
Speaker 3: stay here.
2:41
Speaker 1: We're not going anywhere. Yeah.
2:42
Speaker 3: And I told my wife, I said, I know that
2:45
Speaker 3: we've committed to go to Arizona and this and that.
2:48
Speaker 3: I said, but I'd really like to find a way
2:50
Speaker 3: to stay here. And she said, oh, I'm only going
2:53
Speaker 3: to support you. I want to stay here too. That
2:57
Speaker 3: was the most important two sentences of my life that
3:00
Speaker 3: I almost didn't say because I thought she wanted to
3:03
Speaker 3: go and she was just going to support me.
3:04
Speaker 2: Wow.
3:07
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful area. And what we'd like to do
3:09
Speaker 1: to begin with is just kind of, I know you've
3:12
Speaker 1: had some transitions in your life. You've had things that
3:15
Speaker 1: have been changing, especially in recent years.
3:17
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
3:18
Speaker 1: And if you wouldn't mind, kind of give us your
3:20
Speaker 1: background and a little bit about how you led to
3:25
Speaker 1: the path that you're on now. Just share with us,
3:28
Speaker 1: because I feel like this is a really good story,
3:30
Speaker 1: especially with the work you're doing right now.
3:32
Speaker 3: Awesome. Yeah, that's a big question. So like I said,
3:36
Speaker 3: I was born and raised in little old Smithfield, Utah.
3:40
Speaker 3: My dad always referred to it as Camelot. You know,
3:45
Speaker 3: he grew up in Smithfield when it was smaller than,
3:49
Speaker 3: obviously smaller than it is now. It's grown a lot.
3:52
Speaker 3: But he used to refer to it as Camelot. And
3:55
Speaker 3: I oftentimes, I'm out and around and I interact with
3:58
Speaker 3: people and I thought, this is about as perfect a
4:00
Speaker 3: town as you can come up with. I like the
4:03
Speaker 3: Camelot reference.
4:04
Speaker 1: The size of it is just about right.
4:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.
4:07
Speaker 1: It's not too big, not too small.
4:09
Speaker 3: There's plenty of space. My kids can have always been
4:12
Speaker 3: able to just go and roam and explore. And, uh,
4:16
Speaker 3: and I felt completely safe with, with them doing that.
4:19
Speaker 3: It's a perfect little town. Um, so yeah, I, in
4:24
Speaker 3: my adult life, uh, like I mentioned, my wife and
4:26
Speaker 3: I both graduated from Utah state university and I graduated
4:30
Speaker 3: with a history degree and a secondary education. Um, So
4:36
Speaker 3: I went right out of college and started teaching school.
4:38
Speaker 3: So the job I had in Arizona was to go
4:42
Speaker 3: down and be a wrestling coach and a history teacher.
4:45
Speaker 2: For what grade, like middle school or high school?
4:47
Speaker 3: That job was going to be in a high school.
4:51
Speaker 3: I ended up staying in Cache Valley, and I got
4:55
Speaker 3: a job at a middle school. So I taught 6th, 7th,
4:57
Speaker 3: and 8th grade history for 15 years. So I taught
5:01
Speaker 3: Utah history, world history, which was mostly Eastern Hemisphere stuff.
5:06
Speaker 3: And then my eighth grade classes were U.S. history. So
5:10
Speaker 3: I'd go, you know, I did that every day for
5:15
Speaker 3: 15 years.
5:16
Speaker 1: We probably have a couple of mutual friends. You know
5:19
Speaker 1: Ross Peterson?
5:19
Speaker 3: Oh, very well. Oh, what a great guy.
5:22
Speaker 1: He grew up in the Bear Neck Valley.
5:23
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah.
5:25
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
5:25
Speaker 3: Very influential.
5:27
Speaker 1: Such a good man.
5:28
Speaker 3: Yeah. Everybody loves Ross. He's a good dude. Right as
5:34
Speaker 3: I started teaching school my very first year, I think
5:38
Speaker 3: we had two kids at that point and a mortgage.
5:41
Speaker 3: And I think it was Dr. Phil I heard one time.
5:46
Speaker 3: talking about how you can go broke on love, and
5:49
Speaker 3: that kept resonating with me. I thought, I love this job,
5:53
Speaker 3: I love these kids, I love the school, but I
5:55
Speaker 3: am literally going broke, so it doesn't matter how much
5:58
Speaker 3: I love it. So I had to explore, and I
6:01
Speaker 3: started another business on the side that I would have
6:04
Speaker 3: control over my time, and it grew and grew, and
6:08
Speaker 3: then I did not have control over my time. So
6:12
Speaker 3: I spent the better part of 15, 20 years really
6:17
Speaker 3: working two full-time jobs. I'd get up at 5 in
6:20
Speaker 3: the morning, go to the gym. I was at school
6:22
Speaker 3: by 7.30. As soon as I'd leave school, I typically
6:26
Speaker 3: wouldn't go home. I'd go do sales appointments or go
6:29
Speaker 3: do installs or whatever it was for the business that
6:33
Speaker 3: I'd started. and it grew and grew. And then I
6:37
Speaker 3: was hiring employees and I had employees working for me
6:40
Speaker 3: during the day while I was teaching school. And my
6:44
Speaker 3: accountant every year would look at me and say, you're crazy.
6:47
Speaker 3: Why are you still teaching school? It makes no sense.
6:50
Speaker 3: I said, cause I love it. This other job I'm
6:52
Speaker 3: doing to help pay the bills. I love teaching school.
6:57
Speaker 3: And I was very, very busy. Um, made some bad
7:02
Speaker 3: decisions looking back, and I've talked about this on my
7:05
Speaker 3: own podcast, how my biggest regrets were that 15-year period
7:10
Speaker 3: when my kids were at home and I was focused
7:13
Speaker 3: on work.
7:14
Speaker 1: Working two jobs.
7:15
Speaker 3: Working two jobs, and I missed so much, so much
7:19
Speaker 3: of my kids growing up, and there's nothing I can
7:23
Speaker 3: do about it now. But we'll talk about, what I
7:30
Speaker 3: can do now in a little bit. And part of
7:32
Speaker 3: why I'm on the journey that I'm on now is
7:34
Speaker 3: I want to, I want to help. I want to
7:36
Speaker 3: be a mentor and I want to help other people
7:39
Speaker 3: make better choices than I did.
7:40
Speaker 1: You've seen, you've seen what that experience brought for your life.
7:44
Speaker 1: And now in the change, you're seeing something different.
7:47
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, and it's one of those
7:50
Speaker 3: things back at that time, at that stage of my life,
7:53
Speaker 3: I didn't feel like I had an option. I thought
7:56
Speaker 3: I have to do this. I can't slow down. Um,
8:00
Speaker 3: every business is expected to grow year over year and
8:03
Speaker 3: I've got to do more. And, you know, I look
8:05
Speaker 3: back at that now and it's like, no, every business
8:07
Speaker 3: doesn't have to grow year over year. That was meant
8:10
Speaker 3: to bring in a couple hundred dollars extra a month
8:12
Speaker 3: so that I wasn't dipping into savings. And it turned into,
8:15
Speaker 3: you know, a successful business, you know, and with employees
8:23
Speaker 3: and all of that, that I was.
8:24
Speaker 1: Doing Is that the same kind of work you're doing now?
8:27
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, it's the same. So it's a window covering business.
8:30
Speaker 3: So I started my window covering business on the side
8:34
Speaker 3: when I was teaching school in 2005. That's now my
8:37
Speaker 3: main job. I left education in 2019, right before the pandemic.
8:44
Speaker 3: Right before the pandemic, I left teaching and When that
8:49
Speaker 3: hit the next year, all my teacher friends were calling me.
8:51
Speaker 3: They were so mad. Like, how did you know to
8:53
Speaker 3: get out right now? This sucks.
8:56
Speaker 2: Because it changed drastically how the classroom was shaped.
9:01
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
9:02
Speaker 3: And it was so hard for the kids. It became virtual,
9:04
Speaker 3: all that stuff. Yeah. And it was so hard for
9:07
Speaker 3: the teachers. I don't think the teachers get enough credit
9:09
Speaker 3: for what they had to endure through that. And I'm
9:13
Speaker 3: grateful I didn't have to be there. Yeah. But yeah,
9:17
Speaker 3: so go ahead.
9:17
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about when you say like
9:20
Speaker 2: you didn't feel you had a choice, that it was
9:23
Speaker 2: kind of like initially the intention was just a little
9:27
Speaker 2: supplemental income. Now it's this thriving business and the pressure
9:33
Speaker 2: to have it continue to get bigger. Was that something
9:37
Speaker 2: that you just placed on yourself? Or do you feel
9:39
Speaker 2: that that was kind of coming from other messages, whether
9:43
Speaker 2: that was unintended messages from friends and from just a
9:47
Speaker 2: growing family and the things you wanted to be able
9:50
Speaker 2: to give the family? Where, where did that pressure or
9:53
Speaker 2: that sort of lack of choice come from?
9:55
Speaker 3: Boy, what a great question. Um, Boy, I think that
10:02
Speaker 3: it's not just one thing. It's like a lot of
10:05
Speaker 3: things in life. There were multiple truths. Part of it
10:10
Speaker 3: was something that I put on myself. And that, I
10:15
Speaker 3: can see now, came from a place of a lack
10:18
Speaker 3: of self-worth.
10:19
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
10:20
Speaker 3: I thought if I do more, if I work more,
10:24
Speaker 3: if I make more, someone will see how hard I'm
10:27
Speaker 3: working and love me. Someone will, you know, maybe I
10:32
Speaker 3: can take my kids on a nice vacation and they'll
10:35
Speaker 3: love me and my wife will love me. Maybe my
10:37
Speaker 3: dad will see how many hours I'm putting in and
10:40
Speaker 3: he'll be proud of me. That probably was most of it.
10:46
Speaker 2: The driver.
10:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I didn't recognize it at the time. And
10:50
Speaker 3: that's why I didn't feel like I had an option
10:52
Speaker 3: is it was intrinsically in me that I was seeking love.
10:57
Speaker 3: I was seeking approval. I was seeking validation. And I
11:02
Speaker 3: thought at that time in my life, the best thing
11:06
Speaker 3: I could do was to show I'm a hard worker.
11:08
Speaker 3: I grew up in a farm town. My dad enlisted
11:12
Speaker 3: in the Army during Vietnam and served almost 37 years
11:15
Speaker 3: in the Army and was a drill instructor and, and
11:20
Speaker 3: all the things, you know, and I grew up with
11:21
Speaker 3: these influences around me in my town and in my
11:25
Speaker 3: church and in school. And that was the definition of
11:32
Speaker 3: a man is someone who put himself aside and did
11:36
Speaker 3: what needed to be done. And so, yeah, messages came
11:41
Speaker 3: from outside. Part of it was me trying to prove
11:44
Speaker 3: my worth. Um, But, yeah, what a beautiful question. And
11:51
Speaker 3: I'm glad I get to explain that.
11:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder because I know that from what you said,
11:56
Speaker 2: the regret that you have is that it sounded like
12:00
Speaker 2: there was something that was external focused that then made
12:05
Speaker 2: an environment where you became more distant. And Scott sometimes
12:09
Speaker 2: refers to that as spiritual distance. And not spiritual in
12:13
Speaker 2: the sense of religious, but distance from oneself. One's spirit self.
12:18
Speaker 1: Your own true self.
12:19
Speaker 2: And so just knowing the rest of the story, I
12:23
Speaker 2: kind of get that inside peek of it, knowing you.
12:27
Speaker 2: But it seems like there was something that had you
12:31
Speaker 2: focused on the outside where that's a big part of
12:34
Speaker 2: the shift that you've gone through is from the external
12:37
Speaker 2: to the internal.
12:38
Speaker 3: I had no self. Yeah. I can see that now.
12:42
Speaker 3: I had no soul. I had no self. It was...
12:47
Speaker 3: I'm not good enough. I was yearning for something. At
12:52
Speaker 3: the time, I couldn't have articulated it like I can now.
12:55
Speaker 3: I didn't know what it was. All I knew was
12:57
Speaker 3: I was full of turmoil and angst and sadness and
13:03
Speaker 3: loneliness and all of those terrible feelings. That was my
13:07
Speaker 3: overwhelming emotion for the better part of 20 years.
13:11
Speaker 2: Wow.
13:12
Speaker 3: Yeah. Until this last year. Until this last year, it
13:17
Speaker 3: all shifted.
13:20
Speaker 2: And kind of tell us, what was the precipice? Was
13:24
Speaker 2: it just that gnawing inside you that there had to
13:27
Speaker 2: be something better? Or what do you feel was like
13:32
Speaker 2: a turning point that said, Jeff, there's something different? You
13:36
Speaker 2: have to see it or find it or look in
13:39
Speaker 2: a different direction than what you've been looking.
13:43
Speaker 3: I wish it was that beautiful, but it's not.
13:46
Speaker 1: Okay, good. It was messy.
13:56
Speaker 3: So, yeah, my life has been messy. And I'm a
14:05
Speaker 3: person that's very, very, very big on personal accountability. And
14:09
Speaker 3: I'm not making, I can't make excuses and I look
14:13
Speaker 3: at my past and think, I did that. I made
14:16
Speaker 3: that choice and I got what that choice brings. Along
14:21
Speaker 3: with that, I had a really rough childhood. Really, really rough.
14:29
Speaker 3: And I didn't realize the effect that had on me.
14:33
Speaker 3: What I just described about why I worked so hard
14:35
Speaker 3: and why I did so much, I missed something. I
14:39
Speaker 3: don't know what it was, but I feel like I
14:41
Speaker 3: missed something in my childhood. That made me feel valued
14:46
Speaker 3: or seen or whatever. I don't know. I'm not a psychologist.
14:49
Speaker 3: I could be completely wrong, but that's what makes sense
14:52
Speaker 3: to me. That's what resonates with me. Ask me your
14:59
Speaker 3: question again. I forgot where I was going.
15:00
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
15:01
Speaker 2: No, I was just, I said, I was wondering what
15:03
Speaker 2: kind of became then the turning point for you to
15:05
Speaker 2: look for something when you said that, you know, it
15:09
Speaker 2: happened this year. Yeah. What kind of was that push
15:13
Speaker 2: or that turning point? But I love that you're telling
15:16
Speaker 2: us about just the messiness. So that's fine. Yeah.
15:19
Speaker 3: Well, that's my reality. That's my, that's, that's my experience. Um,
15:25
Speaker 3: I was in a really, really dark place. Um, most
15:28
Speaker 3: of 2024 throughout the winter of 24 and 25, I
15:29
Speaker 3: was really, really dark. Um, I have a really good
15:42
Speaker 3: friend that about a year and a half ago had
15:47
Speaker 3: an awakening. And I won't share his story, but the
15:53
Speaker 3: day after he had an awakening of sorts, he called
15:58
Speaker 3: me and he said, are you home? I said, yeah,
16:00
Speaker 3: I'm home. He said, I need to talk to you.
16:03
Speaker 3: And he came over. His name's Ryan. And he came
16:09
Speaker 3: over and he said, let's go for a drive. Okay.
16:12
Speaker 3: So I got in his truck and he drove a
16:14
Speaker 3: block and parked. He said, I can't drive and tell
16:16
Speaker 3: you what I need to tell you. And he had
16:20
Speaker 3: had a very spiritual experience of sorts. And in it,
16:27
Speaker 3: he saw me. And he said, I don't know why.
16:30
Speaker 3: It makes no sense, but I need to tell you
16:33
Speaker 3: what I experienced. And we both sat there. And he
16:39
Speaker 3: told me about this experience that he had, and we
16:42
Speaker 3: both cried. And he said, you need to consider this
16:49
Speaker 3: modality to heal yourself. He said, I don't mean to
16:53
Speaker 3: be rude, but something's wrong with you. I can see it.
16:56
Speaker 3: You're unhappy. You're crusty. You're ornery. People aren't drawn to you.
17:00
Speaker 3: And I said, you're right. And thank you for loving
17:04
Speaker 3: me enough to be honest with me.
17:05
Speaker 1: What a friend.
17:06
Speaker 3: Yeah. What a good friend. Thank you for being honest
17:08
Speaker 3: with me and not to tell me that, that you
17:10
Speaker 3: see it because it's, that's the truth. And it was
17:13
Speaker 3: a beautiful conversation and he drove me back home and
17:17
Speaker 3: I walked in the house and my wife said, what
17:18
Speaker 3: was that? And I said, probably the most beautiful experience
17:21
Speaker 3: I've ever had. Ryan just shared with me this experience
17:25
Speaker 3: that he had and it makes no sense to me,
17:28
Speaker 3: but I felt it so strongly. Um, And about six
17:32
Speaker 3: months later, he called me and he's like, Hey, how
17:34
Speaker 3: you doing? Have you, have you done anything to improve
17:38
Speaker 3: your situation yet? And I said, no, I haven't. And
17:42
Speaker 3: every now and then he'd text me. He's like, Hey,
17:43
Speaker 3: just thinking about you. And, uh, February, 2025 of this
17:51
Speaker 3: year came and I was so dark and deep in
17:55
Speaker 3: my head and I I gave myself a date that
18:02
Speaker 3: I was going to commit suicide, which was February 23rd.
18:10
Speaker 3: And over the next couple weeks, I made my preparations.
18:14
Speaker 3: I wrote some letters. And February 22nd, I met you two. Mm-hmm.
18:32
Speaker 3: And the gift that you two have of providing a loving,
18:40
Speaker 3: safe space and providing just the skills and love that
18:48
Speaker 3: you two have 100% saved my life.
18:51
Speaker 2: Wow.
18:59
Speaker 3: So, no, it wasn't a beautiful experience that led me
19:02
Speaker 3: to this space that I'm in.
19:06
Speaker 1: It was you two.
19:09
Speaker 2: Oh, Jeff, we didn't know that.
19:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, you and Ryan know, and my wife.
19:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
19:19
Speaker 2: Wow.
19:24
Speaker 3: And I'm I'll just be eternally thankful forever that I
19:29
Speaker 3: met you two. And I'm thankful that Ryan introduced us.
19:36
Speaker 3: But I woke up February 23rd full of love and hope.
19:48
Speaker 3: I felt my value. I felt that I was worth
19:51
Speaker 3: something I knew that I was loved and my love
19:54
Speaker 3: came from inside of myself um and I was driven
20:03
Speaker 3: I was different I was just different um and you
20:13
Speaker 3: guys had told me to write things down. So I
20:17
Speaker 3: got up that morning, the morning of February 23rd, and
20:19
Speaker 3: I went straight to my computer and created this Google
20:22
Speaker 3: doc and just started typing. And I wrote and wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote.
20:27
Speaker 3: And I, it turned into ramblings and it was past
20:31
Speaker 3: thoughts and past experiences. And my love for YouTube, my
20:36
Speaker 3: love for Ryan, um, It turned into just pages of thankfulness,
20:42
Speaker 3: things I was thankful for, things that I have that
20:45
Speaker 3: I hadn't recognized how beautiful my life is. And I
20:52
Speaker 3: started to live with intent. I've talked about it a
20:57
Speaker 3: lot on my podcast of being intentful. And it started
21:03
Speaker 3: that day. I'd been taught about it and understood the
21:06
Speaker 3: principles of it, but I'd never put it into action
21:08
Speaker 3: until the end of February when I realized I'm in control.
21:22
Speaker 3: I am worth something. I am loved. It has to
21:28
Speaker 3: come from within me first. I have to love myself.
21:34
Speaker 3: And for the first time in my entire life, in
21:37
Speaker 3: 49 years, I really love myself. I feel it deeply.
21:49
Speaker 3: And I've put, I've made kind of a master plan.
21:53
Speaker 3: I just feel driven to do things. I feel driven
21:55
Speaker 3: to help. I'm full of love. I want to give.
21:57
Speaker 3: I want to be something for somebody that I wish
22:04
Speaker 3: I had. And that's what led me to create my
22:07
Speaker 3: men's group, Bonded Brotherhood. It's all from this.
22:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like you unlocked your own potential that
22:17
Speaker 2: was inside you, that was waiting, that may have been
22:21
Speaker 2: what you felt you were seeking, but it was just
22:25
Speaker 2: calling to you. And that's just such a beautiful story.
22:29
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing that.
22:33
Speaker 1: It makes me pretty emotional to hear it and pretty
22:45
Speaker 1: grateful to realize that the work we're doing is really
22:51
Speaker 1: having an impact on people and watching what you're doing.
22:56
Speaker 1: We've been observing and seeing and talking to other people
23:00
Speaker 1: that we've met through you and from you. And it's
23:06
Speaker 1: hard for me to really express the gratitude I have
23:12
Speaker 1: in witnessing what you're doing. You know, we didn't know
23:18
Speaker 1: you before.
23:20
Speaker 3: Yeah.
23:21
Speaker 1: But I've heard your story on the podcast. I've heard
23:24
Speaker 1: you talk about that, the difficulties and things that you
23:27
Speaker 1: went through. And we would encourage everyone who's listening to this,
23:32
Speaker 1: if you want more detail, to go there to the
23:34
Speaker 1: podcast and listen to that.
23:36
Speaker 3: But, man, thank you, Jeff. No, thank you, guys. I
23:39
Speaker 3: think that the last six months I have grown. I've
23:50
Speaker 3: been open to different experiences, different forms of healing. And
24:01
Speaker 3: there's a lot of myself, and I hear myself talk sometimes,
24:04
Speaker 3: and I think, who are you? Who in the heck
24:07
Speaker 3: are you?
24:08
Speaker 1: I can relate to that.
24:09
Speaker 3: But my true self is coming out.
24:11
Speaker 1: Exactly.
24:12
Speaker 3: My true self of love and goodness and wanting connection.
24:18
Speaker 3: And one of the greatest things that's come from this,
24:21
Speaker 3: along with all of that that I've described, is the
24:24
Speaker 3: confidence in myself. I found peace, and right there standing
24:28
Speaker 3: next to peace was confidence.
24:31
Speaker 2: Well, and it had been masked by what you've described
24:34
Speaker 2: as just such a fatigue of life. You know, running faster,
24:39
Speaker 2: trying to build harder, trying to meet an expectation that
24:45
Speaker 2: was going to be forever elusive.
24:50
Speaker 1: It was the carrot dangling out in front of you
24:52
Speaker 1: the whole time, and you're never catching it.
24:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't have caught it.
24:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, never.
24:57
Speaker 3: No.
24:58
Speaker 2: And so that fatigue can, you know, people, I love
25:02
Speaker 2: what you're doing now because you're giving that call to
25:06
Speaker 2: others that says, hey, you may feel this way too,
25:09
Speaker 2: and it's okay.
25:10
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:11
Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with that, but I know how
25:14
Speaker 2: it feels deep inside.
25:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
25:16
Speaker 2: It doesn't answer what you really want.
25:20
Speaker 3: And that is, with my group, that's one of the
25:23
Speaker 3: main things. You hit it right on the head. I
25:28
Speaker 3: want guys to know that they're not alone. I want
25:31
Speaker 3: them to know that they're not crazy for feeling and
25:33
Speaker 3: thinking what they're feeling and thinking. And I want them
25:37
Speaker 3: to know there's peace. There is peace, and it comes
25:42
Speaker 3: by making choices. It comes by putting yourself first to
25:46
Speaker 3: some degree and for a while. Sometimes, you know, even
25:51
Speaker 3: now I say that, put yourself first. I'm like, ooh,
25:54
Speaker 3: that's not okay to say. You know, I've been raised
25:57
Speaker 3: that that's not the right way. You do not put
26:00
Speaker 3: yourself first. But let me put it this way for
26:03
Speaker 3: anybody that that, you know, sounded scratchy to. Put yourself
26:07
Speaker 3: first for a time. It doesn't have to be forever.
26:11
Speaker 3: And it's not a selfish thing. But give yourself permission
26:14
Speaker 3: to do something for you. we've all heard it over
26:18
Speaker 3: and over that you have to be healthy before you
26:21
Speaker 3: can show up the best way for other people. And
26:24
Speaker 3: that meant nothing to me until I experienced it. And
26:27
Speaker 3: now it's everything.
26:29
Speaker 2: And it's so true. I've often heard that like on
26:32
Speaker 2: an airplane when they say, you know, put your mask
26:34
Speaker 2: on first before you help others because you'll be of
26:37
Speaker 2: no value if you don't have some sort of strength,
26:41
Speaker 2: whether that's inner strength or knowing who you are. in
26:45
Speaker 2: order to then help others that are struggling. And it
26:48
Speaker 2: becomes so paramount. And when you're, when you say it,
26:52
Speaker 2: it can feel really selfish until you're actually doing it.
26:55
Speaker 2: And then you, you say to yourself, I couldn't have
26:59
Speaker 2: helped someone else given where I was. If I didn't
27:03
Speaker 2: do this and this and this, I would have been
27:06
Speaker 2: perhaps a risk or not the, not the, You know,
27:12
Speaker 2: like when you have a baseball team, not the one
27:14
Speaker 2: best suited for the role or the one with the
27:17
Speaker 2: most practice of doing it.
27:18
Speaker 3: There you go. I like that a lot.
27:21
Speaker 2: So it really has to come from that place where
27:24
Speaker 2: you let go of the societal norm that says that
27:28
Speaker 2: sounds really selfish or narcissist or a lot of the
27:31
Speaker 2: words that get used because it's out of love for
27:35
Speaker 2: someone else that you that you love yourself enough to
27:40
Speaker 2: help them love themselves.
27:42
Speaker 3: Very well said.
27:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
27:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I couldn't say that any better. That was beautiful.
27:46
Speaker 1: Without a real, true, authentic love for yourself, you really
27:53
Speaker 1: can't give true, authentic love to anyone. You can feel
27:56
Speaker 1: love for others, of course, and that's easy to do,
28:01
Speaker 1: but that depth of love for someone else You won't
28:06
Speaker 1: experience until you have it for yourself.
28:09
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. You know, and I like the way you
28:14
Speaker 3: said that. I'm just, as you're saying that, I'm thinking
28:18
Speaker 3: of different men that I've met in the group. And overwhelmingly,
28:24
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of my wife. It doesn't have to be
28:27
Speaker 3: in a special setting. It's the people that are closest
28:32
Speaker 3: to you in your life. that you can truly see
28:37
Speaker 3: and understand and love on such a deep level once
28:41
Speaker 3: you love yourself. Before that, it's almost like you're on stage.
28:48
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question.
28:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, go ahead.
28:50
Speaker 1: So your relationship with your wife, after your depth of
28:56
Speaker 1: getting to know yourself and love yourself better, what's that
29:00
Speaker 1: done with the relationship with your wife?
29:05
Speaker 3: It's been beautiful. It's been absolutely beautiful. Just like any marriage,
29:19
Speaker 3: we just celebrated our, in June, we celebrated our 25th
29:22
Speaker 3: wedding anniversary.
29:24
Speaker 2: Oh, congratulations.
29:25
Speaker 1: That is awesome.
29:26
Speaker 3: It's an accomplishment. But every issue that our marriage had,
29:31
Speaker 3: I was convinced was her fault. I had no accountability.
29:38
Speaker 3: I was looking outside. you know and pointing fingers and
29:44
Speaker 3: making excuses but once I loved myself it was so
29:50
Speaker 3: easy black and white I was actually frustrated with myself
29:54
Speaker 3: like how did I not see that I'm causing these
29:57
Speaker 3: problems I'm responsible for for what I'm responsible for. And
30:02
Speaker 3: let me now see it and let me now recognize it.
30:06
Speaker 3: Now let me step up and do my part and
30:08
Speaker 3: love her how she deserves to be loved. And oh
30:12
Speaker 3: my goodness, how that's reciprocated when I can love myself
30:17
Speaker 3: and be accountable and see the mistakes I've made and
30:20
Speaker 3: love her how she deserves to be loved. Who wouldn't
30:24
Speaker 3: reciprocate that? You know, so it's been beautiful. Of course not.
30:28
Speaker 3: We're not perfect. Of course.
30:30
Speaker 1: Nobody is. It's all a journey. Yeah, yeah.
30:33
Speaker 3: And I don't want this to sound like I have
30:35
Speaker 3: absolutely zero problems anymore. That's not the reality of it.
30:38
Speaker 3: But the trajectory of my life is beautiful now.
30:42
Speaker 1: The reason for me personally that I wanted to have
30:47
Speaker 1: you on the podcast is because I know a lot
30:49
Speaker 1: of people like you. I grew up with a lot
30:53
Speaker 1: of people like you. I'm one of those people too.
30:57
Speaker 1: I'm a lot like you. We grew up as country boys.
30:59
Speaker 3: Yeah.
31:00
Speaker 1: We grew up in, in the farm world. We grew
31:03
Speaker 1: up in the hunting and fishing and camping and hiking
31:06
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. And, um, the thing that's difficult
31:10
Speaker 1: for men that have grown up that way is that you're,
31:13
Speaker 1: you're taught to man up. You're taught to, you know,
31:15
Speaker 1: don't cry, uh, you know, work hard, all those, those
31:20
Speaker 1: things that we were taught by, by very, uh, uh,
31:26
Speaker 1: Very good parents. Parents that had the right intention of
31:31
Speaker 1: helping us be successful and all of those things. But
31:34
Speaker 1: the parents, a lot of times, didn't teach us how
31:36
Speaker 1: to feel feelings. Emotionally, it was difficult for us to
31:40
Speaker 1: go to that place where we can feel within ourselves
31:44
Speaker 1: those feelings. It wasn't a safe place. But when we
31:48
Speaker 1: start to love ourselves, it becomes a whole heck of
31:51
Speaker 1: a lot safer. And because I know a lot of
31:54
Speaker 1: people like that, that's where I see the power of
31:56
Speaker 1: your voice and your podcast and what you're doing with
32:00
Speaker 1: the men's group and the retreats and things that you're doing.
32:03
Speaker 1: Because it gives men like that an opportunity to rub
32:08
Speaker 1: shoulders with other men and become vulnerable, go to a
32:13
Speaker 1: place where we can have difficult conversations or emotional conversations
32:18
Speaker 1: about things. That doesn't mean we're all sitting around quiet.
32:21
Speaker 1: crying on each other's shoulders. Maybe we are. But it's still,
32:25
Speaker 1: it's not, it has not been a safe place when
32:28
Speaker 1: you're raised the way you were raised and you were
32:30
Speaker 1: raised the way I was raised to be able to
32:34
Speaker 1: be vulnerable and go to that place. So that's an
32:37
Speaker 1: amazing thing that you're doing. And I hope you see
32:41
Speaker 1: how important that is. It's another niche. There's lots of
32:45
Speaker 1: people that need it. But I call it, I call
32:48
Speaker 1: our lives like, we're like a sun. And we're our
32:51
Speaker 1: own solar system. And what gets drawn into us are
32:54
Speaker 1: those people that resonate in the kinds of things that
32:58
Speaker 1: we resonate in. And that's, I think, what you're really
33:01
Speaker 1: experiencing now as you see the retreats that you're doing,
33:04
Speaker 1: growing more and more people wanting to come and join you.
33:07
Speaker 1: Random people are contacting you and saying how much your
33:10
Speaker 1: podcast has affected them. And I think that's just amazing.
33:15
Speaker 1: I honor you for that. Thank you.
33:17
Speaker 3: That's very kind of you to say. Yeah.
33:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that in that environment, sometimes we have
33:25
Speaker 2: a friend that says, you know, we have to be
33:27
Speaker 2: careful because we've had experiences where our vulnerabilities have been weaponized.
33:33
Speaker 2: Someone that we were vulnerable to or that we allowed
33:36
Speaker 2: ourself to share that vulnerability actually took that vulnerability and
33:41
Speaker 2: sort of weaponized it against us. And so It only
33:44
Speaker 2: took once or twice.
33:45
Speaker 1: Intentionally or unintentionally.
33:47
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter.
33:47
Speaker 2: To quickly say, I will never do that again. And
33:52
Speaker 2: the further you move away from being able to be vulnerable,
33:56
Speaker 2: I think that is part of the path that takes
33:58
Speaker 2: you away from knowing how to love yourself. And when
34:01
Speaker 2: you truly love yourself, you don't care how vulnerable people
34:07
Speaker 2: see you. You actually know that people need to see you.
34:11
Speaker 2: your vulnerabilities in order to relate to you and to
34:14
Speaker 2: build trust and to build that fabric of community that
34:19
Speaker 2: really supports one another and that says that we're all
34:22
Speaker 2: more similar than we are different.
34:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and when I started Bonded Brotherhood and
34:29
Speaker 3: I made a couple videos that I ended up posting
34:33
Speaker 3: on our Instagram, the very first place that I, excuse me,
34:37
Speaker 3: the very first place that I posted anything about bonded
34:41
Speaker 3: brotherhood existing at all was, was on my Instagram page.
34:45
Speaker 3: And it was hard for me to post. Like I
34:50
Speaker 3: meant it. I felt it. I felt called to, to
34:53
Speaker 3: do this work. But I, Scott, you know, the community.
34:58
Speaker 1: Yeah.
34:59
Speaker 3: And I was thinking, Oh, this person that, that I
35:03
Speaker 3: hunt geese with is going to see this and think, Oh,
35:06
Speaker 3: what's wrong with Jeff? You know? And, and, This guy
35:10
Speaker 3: that I worked on his dairy, he's going to hear
35:14
Speaker 3: this and think, oh, good grief. What's going on with Jeff?
35:18
Speaker 3: What's going on with him? And it was hard, and
35:21
Speaker 3: I was full of reservation. But I felt so called
35:24
Speaker 3: and so full of love, I thought, I'm going to
35:27
Speaker 3: do this. I am going to do this. And what
35:30
Speaker 3: I have found is those people that I judged and
35:35
Speaker 3: thought that they were going to think something weird, Those
35:38
Speaker 3: are the exact people that are reaching out and saying,
35:40
Speaker 3: thank you. Those are the people that are reaching out
35:44
Speaker 3: and saying, how can we support you? We love what
35:46
Speaker 3: you're doing. I was wrong. I was judging them. And
35:51
Speaker 3: they're wanting to support me because the need is everywhere.
35:56
Speaker 3: We grew up in this town, in this community, and
36:01
Speaker 3: we all were raised similarly. Obviously, there's different parents and
36:05
Speaker 3: different approaches and all that. Not everybody worked on a farm,
36:08
Speaker 3: and not everybody hunts and fishes. But what I'm finding
36:13
Speaker 3: is these guys that I thought were the strong, stoic
36:17
Speaker 3: people are the ones that are reaching out and saying,
36:20
Speaker 3: in tears, somebody needed to do this.
36:25
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
36:26
Speaker 3: That's really powerful.
36:28
Speaker 1: When you look at what's happening in the world today,
36:33
Speaker 1: you can see it if you want to turn on
36:35
Speaker 1: the news and watch it just give it five minutes
36:38
Speaker 1: and you can see what's being portrayed there and it
36:43
Speaker 1: puts everyone in a place where they don't want to
36:47
Speaker 1: keep just looking at that they want to find something
36:50
Speaker 1: deeper something more meaningful something that can help them be
36:54
Speaker 1: connected instead of all this separation that we've been experiencing
36:59
Speaker 1: so that that makes total sense to me that even,
37:03
Speaker 1: even the people, the last people you would imagine that
37:06
Speaker 1: might want to, to have that are actually the people
37:09
Speaker 1: who want it the most. Yeah.
37:12
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it's been, it's been educational for me too.
37:15
Speaker 3: And it's been motivating as, you know, as I've put
37:19
Speaker 3: myself out there more and more, and even sharing this
37:21
Speaker 3: story is really hard for me to put out there
37:24
Speaker 3: for anybody that will listen. We'll, we'll know, uh, more intimately,
37:30
Speaker 3: my struggles. But it's the truth. It's my truth, and
37:37
Speaker 3: I have received so much love. I almost feel a
37:40
Speaker 3: little bit selfish that my motivation is I'm receiving love
37:45
Speaker 3: in return. People are saying, oh, somebody needed this. We
37:48
Speaker 3: love the work you're doing. And I honestly... keep having thoughts.
37:55
Speaker 3: I need to be really careful about where I let
37:57
Speaker 3: my mind go with this because I don't want it
38:00
Speaker 3: to become about me. Right. You know, I, I, I
38:03
Speaker 3: need to be intentionally careful of my motivation is to
38:06
Speaker 3: help men and to bring us together and not get
38:10
Speaker 3: an ego that I'm doing this, this thing. Um, and
38:14
Speaker 3: that's not going to be hard to do because I'm
38:16
Speaker 3: aware and, and I'm, and I, and I love, and
38:19
Speaker 3: we're having success, you know, and guys are, guys are
38:23
Speaker 3: growing and learning and just becoming better dads, better, better everything,
38:31
Speaker 3: you know? So that's an interesting part of it that
38:34
Speaker 3: I've just been ruminating about the last couple of days. Um,
38:38
Speaker 3: there's a friend of mine, Casey McFarland. I did a
38:40
Speaker 3: podcast with him a couple of weeks ago that came out,
38:43
Speaker 3: just a beautiful thinking person. And he texted me, he's like, Hey,
38:49
Speaker 3: how's your podcast doing? And I said, man, these people are,
38:51
Speaker 3: messaging me all the time. And he said, yeah, that's
38:56
Speaker 3: a really fun part of it, isn't it? And he
38:59
Speaker 3: was just having a conversation with me, but it made
39:01
Speaker 3: me think I need to be careful.
39:03
Speaker 1: Right.
39:04
Speaker 3: The thing I.
39:06
Speaker 2: Would encourage you to look at is, because you're the
39:11
Speaker 2: one creating it right now, and as you ask for
39:14
Speaker 2: that co-creation to be shared with others, it'll feel differently
39:18
Speaker 2: as it starts to take more shape. But there is
39:22
Speaker 2: always an energy exchange. And there is always, you fill
39:27
Speaker 2: your cup and then you empty it to others. and
39:29
Speaker 2: then you fill your cup and then you empty it
39:31
Speaker 2: to others so you know don't don't feel like there
39:36
Speaker 2: shouldn't be some that comes to you because your cup
39:38
Speaker 2: has to be filled in order to be emptied to
39:41
Speaker 2: others and so allow that filling to come you know
39:47
Speaker 2: to keep coming to you that's what will encourage you.
39:51
Speaker 2: That's what we'll keep showing you this whole, you know,
39:55
Speaker 2: process or, or journey of reciprocity.
39:59
Speaker 3: I like that a lot.
40:01
Speaker 2: Because it, it isn't about suddenly you being somewhere that
40:05
Speaker 2: you will never have a dark day again.
40:06
Speaker 1: You, you will.
40:08
Speaker 3: And I, yeah, I still do.
40:09
Speaker 2: And so you, that you have to be very aware
40:12
Speaker 2: of that filling your cup and feeling that love that
40:16
Speaker 2: you have, um, for yourself and helping others find it
40:20
Speaker 2: for themselves and knowing that that will ebb and flow.
40:27
Speaker 2: And it's important to keep that.
40:28
Speaker 1: That healing that we do is, we never arrive there.
40:32
Speaker 3: No.
40:33
Speaker 1: It's always an ongoing thing. I've called it the infinite
40:38
Speaker 1: onion because you're just peeling back layer after layer after layer.
40:42
Speaker 1: Underneath one layer you find something very beautiful and you
40:45
Speaker 1: sit with that for a while and then It's like
40:48
Speaker 1: the way we are designed as humans is we forget.
40:51
Speaker 1: And we start getting proud or we start getting forgetful
40:57
Speaker 1: or we start getting whatever it is. And then we
41:00
Speaker 1: get another lesson. It's all ongoing lessons that we get
41:04
Speaker 1: to receive.
41:05
Speaker 2: Or you're strong enough and then yourself says, now it's
41:10
Speaker 2: time for you to see an even deeper truth. And
41:12
Speaker 2: that deeper truth can be harder. It's like, oh, I
41:15
Speaker 2: kind of like the truth I was at. you know,
41:19
Speaker 2: now I have, Oh, that was even deeper. And so
41:22
Speaker 2: all of that is, is meant for part of what
41:25
Speaker 2: Gary Zukav calls earth school. You know, that's all part
41:29
Speaker 2: of what we are here to experience and share together.
41:33
Speaker 2: So I, I wanted to kind of have you share
41:35
Speaker 2: kind of what, what it is that you do with
41:38
Speaker 2: your group, like this bonded brotherhood, you know, you, Do
41:42
Speaker 2: you have weekly gatherings? Do you go away together? How
41:46
Speaker 2: does that show up and what form does it take?
41:49
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question. So up to this point,
41:53
Speaker 3: I've been hosting camping retreats. So I created this as
42:02
Speaker 3: a nonprofit so that I can hopefully receive some donations.
42:05
Speaker 3: And the reason that I did that is money can
42:08
Speaker 3: keep people from having experiences. And I wanted this to
42:12
Speaker 3: be something that's free or very close to free that
42:15
Speaker 3: anybody that feels drawn or has a need can just
42:18
Speaker 3: show up. So I hold these camping retreats and, you know,
42:29
Speaker 3: they're really low key. It's I provide the food, I
42:33
Speaker 3: provide the tents, a location, the time, and let's just
42:40
Speaker 3: get together and Let's have fun. Let's play some games.
42:44
Speaker 3: Let's share some experiences with each other. Let's share some knowledge.
42:48
Speaker 3: Share some things that we wish we would have known.
42:52
Speaker 3: Some guys share some hard stories about things they're going
42:56
Speaker 3: through right now. This is around the campfire in the
42:59
Speaker 3: evening type stuff. We're transitioning into... For example... The first
43:09
Speaker 3: Tuesday of every month, we'll have a men's wellness, a
43:14
Speaker 3: group wellness class where we'll get together and we'll have
43:18
Speaker 3: a specific topic that we're going to talk about as
43:21
Speaker 3: men together. And then the third Tuesday, we're going to
43:24
Speaker 3: go do something fun together. So we might go on
43:28
Speaker 3: a hike. We might go swimming. We might go to
43:30
Speaker 3: a movie. We might have a game night.
43:32
Speaker 1: So it's... All of this is in person then?
43:37
Speaker 3: All of this is in person. Okay. Yeah, so I'm
43:41
Speaker 3: wanting to build this so that, because the issue is
43:44
Speaker 3: guys are lonely. Guys are unfulfilled. Guys are depressed, you know,
43:49
Speaker 3: a hundred different things. And I started this with the
43:55
Speaker 3: idea of I'm going to do these camping retreats. And
43:57
Speaker 3: then I thought, well, that's not enough because these guys
44:00
Speaker 3: will come from all over the place. And we had
44:02
Speaker 3: one just a couple of weeks ago. We had guys
44:04
Speaker 3: from come from all over the place. come up and
44:07
Speaker 3: go on this camping retreat with us. And I thought,
44:11
Speaker 3: I don't want these guys to meet each other and
44:13
Speaker 3: have this awesome experience and then not stay in touch.
44:17
Speaker 3: So I've created this Slack page for Bonded Brotherhood where
44:21
Speaker 3: the guys that go on these retreats can stay in
44:23
Speaker 3: touch with each other. And that's great, but it's not enough.
44:26
Speaker 3: I want people to really create a connection. I want
44:33
Speaker 3: to provide the space where people can really human to human,
44:37
Speaker 3: face to face, get to know each other and support
44:40
Speaker 3: each other and know somebody that when they have a need,
44:44
Speaker 3: they can call somebody. Or when they're going to go
44:47
Speaker 3: to lunch and they're like, I don't want to go
44:49
Speaker 3: to lunch by myself again. I've created this group where
44:52
Speaker 3: they can just put out there, hey, I'm going to lunch.
44:54
Speaker 3: Can anybody go to lunch with me? Basic human connection
44:58
Speaker 3: is what so many men are missing and it's what
45:01
Speaker 3: we're building. So It's kind of threefold, right? We're doing
45:05
Speaker 3: fun stuff. We're doing group therapy classes and we're doing
45:09
Speaker 3: these camping retreats. And I'm also doing the podcasts so
45:13
Speaker 3: that we can reach a wider audience. Um, cause somebody
45:17
Speaker 3: might need to hear something that we share and hopefully
45:21
Speaker 3: it'll resonate with someone and be like, ah, I'm in Texas.
45:24
Speaker 3: I'm not in Utah, but I appreciate what these guys
45:27
Speaker 3: are saying. That's the point of our podcast is to
45:31
Speaker 3: just put out a, a positive message to a wider audience. Right.
45:36
Speaker 2: Well, it's what you said earlier about, um, that people
45:40
Speaker 2: are not alone. So we actually see ourselves in other
45:43
Speaker 2: people's stories as they share their story. It's like, you know,
45:47
Speaker 2: just what you and Scott were doing when we started saying, Oh,
45:50
Speaker 2: we have all these similarities. And so that's just part
45:53
Speaker 2: of who we are. And when they see that, then
45:55
Speaker 2: you become, you become like a lifeline to them. Oh,
46:00
Speaker 2: someone who will understand me, someone who, that I all
46:02
Speaker 2: have something in common with that I could go and,
46:06
Speaker 2: you know, be a part of. I love that.
46:08
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's really just about connection. It's about building
46:12
Speaker 3: connection and support because I needed it. And so I'm
46:18
Speaker 3: building what I needed. Yeah. Yeah.
46:20
Speaker 1: And, and in doing that, you're finding out how many
46:23
Speaker 1: other men I actually need that too.
46:25
Speaker 3: Oh, it's everywhere.
46:26
Speaker 1: It is everywhere.
46:27
Speaker 3: It's everywhere. Yeah.
46:28
Speaker 1: You said something, you said a Slack page. Yeah. What
46:32
Speaker 1: is that?
46:32
Speaker 3: Oh, that's a good question. So Slack is an app,
46:35
Speaker 3: or it's web-based also. So I went on there and
46:39
Speaker 3: created a channel that's called Bonded Brotherhood. And I can
46:44
Speaker 3: invite people. So when they go to our website and
46:47
Speaker 3: sign up for a retreat, fill out this form, or
46:50
Speaker 3: they can sign up to just be on our email list,
46:53
Speaker 3: and I'll send out newsletters and things. They get invited
46:56
Speaker 3: to this Slack page, and it's not open to the public.
46:59
Speaker 3: Somebody has to put forth a little bit of effort.
47:02
Speaker 3: on our website to fill out a form. And then
47:04
Speaker 3: they join us and we've got all these guys on
47:06
Speaker 3: there that have filled out this simple form on our website.
47:11
Speaker 3: And we can just get to know each other. And
47:13
Speaker 3: in there, I've created little sub channels. So dad hacks,
47:19
Speaker 3: best hikes, book recommendations, podcast recommendations.
47:23
Speaker 2: And you can access all of that.
47:24
Speaker 3: And you can access all of that. And guys will
47:26
Speaker 3: get in there and they can communicate and share different
47:29
Speaker 3: things with each other And it's just another, it's a
47:33
Speaker 3: tool to communicate.
47:34
Speaker 2: So it's like texting, but you have different channels.
47:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:39
Speaker 2: All in the same channel.
47:40
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
47:41
Speaker 2: So I belong to a text group, but then there
47:43
Speaker 2: are these other sub-channels I can go in and out of,
47:46
Speaker 2: and I can text in all of them.
47:47
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
47:48
Speaker 2: And everyone can see and be a part of it. Yeah. Well,
47:51
Speaker 2: that's awesome.
47:52
Speaker 3: Yeah. So we had a guy yesterday share a little
47:55
Speaker 3: one-minute video about authenticity and being vulnerable. And thought, hey,
48:02
Speaker 3: this resonated with me. Hopefully this will help somebody. And
48:05
Speaker 3: then it starts a little discussion on this one sub-channel.
48:09
Speaker 3: I like that. It's beautiful. It's a way for people
48:13
Speaker 3: to stay in touch at some level. It's good, but
48:17
Speaker 3: it's not human connection. Right.
48:20
Speaker 2: It's an avenue, but it's still not when you're together,
48:24
Speaker 2: the value of when you're actually together.
48:27
Speaker 3: Yeah. But at the same time, it is providing value.
48:29
Speaker 2: Right. It is. It's definitely a tool.
48:32
Speaker 1: Well, you've got to take advantage of technology because it
48:35
Speaker 1: makes things so much easier to develop a way to communicate,
48:39
Speaker 1: and then that leads to the deeper experiences, right?
48:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And I had lunch with a friend today,
48:47
Speaker 3: and he was telling me that he's got a group
48:51
Speaker 3: of friends that they– are you familiar with Marco Polo?
48:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, we use Marco Polo.
48:55
Speaker 3: We use that. Yeah, so I guess you can do
48:57
Speaker 3: similar things in Marco Polo where you create a group
49:00
Speaker 3: of people that can... It's not just so... I used
49:05
Speaker 3: Marco Polo for the first time about two weeks ago.
49:07
Speaker 3: So I didn't know that you could have a group
49:09
Speaker 3: Marco Polo.
49:10
Speaker 1: I don't think I knew that either.
49:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, of course, we have a group.
49:13
Speaker 1: We do?
49:13
Speaker 2: We have small groups that we Marco Polo back and forth.
49:15
Speaker 2: And what's great is people don't have to be live
49:18
Speaker 2: to watch it. So it'll save it, and then you
49:22
Speaker 2: can watch it at your convenience and then respond to it.
49:25
Speaker 2: And it's all video-based. So our Marco Polo has gotten in.
49:29
Speaker 3: Yeah.
49:30
Speaker 1: It's a group. look at it as a group thing.
49:33
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's just us and our friends. Yeah.
49:37
Speaker 2: We have one with our friends that we travel a
49:39
Speaker 2: lot with. We started it when we were planning trips,
49:42
Speaker 2: but then it just kept going because we love to
49:44
Speaker 2: see each other in person.
49:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that I'll incorporate something along those lines
49:48
Speaker 3: because you can see them. It's like you said, it's
49:52
Speaker 3: video based. Instead of just reading text, you can see someone,
49:56
Speaker 3: you can read their facial expressions. There's, there's a little
49:59
Speaker 3: more to it when you, And there's the visual part.
50:02
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, when you, it's, it's nice because
50:05
Speaker 2: you're kind of geographically in what, in a somewhat similar place,
50:10
Speaker 2: but eventually you could be, you know, across the country
50:13
Speaker 2: and then you could have groups that are meeting up
50:16
Speaker 2: in geographic similarity, you know, similar places, but still all
50:20
Speaker 2: connected to the whole.
50:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
50:22
Speaker 2: So you, you have to kind of build it with
50:25
Speaker 2: a big picture and then allow it to Like build
50:29
Speaker 2: it and they'll come. Build it and invite them, right?
50:31
Speaker 3: There you go. I love that.
50:33
Speaker 1: Field of dreams.
50:34
Speaker 3: I know. Build it and.
50:35
Speaker 2: They will come.
50:36
Speaker 3: I know. I picked that up.
50:40
Speaker 2: Oh, that just sounds wonderful. Now, you know, I have
50:43
Speaker 2: to be the voice here for the feminine, but do
50:46
Speaker 2: you envision that eventually, you know, there will be events
50:50
Speaker 2: or things where you can invite your partners and it
50:52
Speaker 2: can also have an element of sort of co-ed bonding?
50:58
Speaker 3: I think that would be beautiful. Yeah, I hadn't thought
51:01
Speaker 3: of that, but that's actually a really, really good idea.
51:06
Speaker 3: I like that. One thing that I have from the
51:10
Speaker 3: very beginning, because this was my experience, I don't have
51:15
Speaker 3: a lot of rules with our group. I want people
51:18
Speaker 3: to be open and be vulnerable and talk about or
51:20
Speaker 3: don't talk about whatever they want. But I highly, highly
51:24
Speaker 3: encourage people To show up with the attitude to be
51:29
Speaker 3: accountable for yourself and we're not going to be a
51:33
Speaker 3: group that says all my problems are because of my wife.
51:36
Speaker 3: We're not going to bash anybody or anything. We're going
51:41
Speaker 3: to be present and we're going to talk about what
51:43
Speaker 3: we can do in the situation that we are in.
51:46
Speaker 3: To honor and respect the women that are in our lives.
51:50
Speaker 3: That's really the point. I don't want to turn into
51:52
Speaker 3: this negative group that does anything. I want it to have...
51:57
Speaker 3: An aura of positivity and helpfulness.
51:59
Speaker 1: Right.
52:01
Speaker 2: That's good because I think both sides, men and women,
52:05
Speaker 2: you run the danger of it becoming that way.
52:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
52:09
Speaker 2: You know, where it's like an escape. I can escape
52:11
Speaker 2: to my friends and, you know, and sometimes that's good
52:16
Speaker 2: to share feelings that can't be shared, but it's also
52:19
Speaker 2: really supportive if the group can help you just find
52:22
Speaker 2: your way back to being able to like you said,
52:25
Speaker 2: be accountable and then share what's maybe difficult to share
52:28
Speaker 2: with a partner, with a parent, with a sibling, whoever
52:32
Speaker 2: that challenging relationship or relationship that feels strained is in
52:37
Speaker 2: your life.
52:37
Speaker 3: Yeah. And we haven't had any, any of this at
52:41
Speaker 3: all yet. Um, But it is something that I'm aware
52:45
Speaker 3: of and I've been cognizant of from the very beginning
52:47
Speaker 3: because of my own experience. I blamed everything on my wife.
52:50
Speaker 3: I thought I need to really be careful on how
52:54
Speaker 3: I navigate this and give guys instructions. You can talk
52:56
Speaker 3: about anything you want except for this. So I dance
53:02
Speaker 3: around that really gently at the beginning of our retreats.
53:05
Speaker 3: And guys understand.
53:06
Speaker 2: Sure.
53:07
Speaker 3: They do. So it's a safe place. And we're here
53:11
Speaker 3: to be accountable. And we're not going to bash anybody
53:14
Speaker 3: or anything.
53:15
Speaker 1: So let's see.
53:16
Speaker 2: You said you started it how long ago? Like a
53:20
Speaker 2: few months ago now?
53:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're just a few months old.
53:22
Speaker 2: Wow, that's awesome.
53:24
Speaker 1: You mentioned that someone had shared a video about vulnerability
53:30
Speaker 1: and authenticity. And for men, that's the most unsafe place
53:36
Speaker 1: for most of us, right?
53:37
Speaker 3: Yeah.
53:38
Speaker 1: But that's the place where I've seen in the men's
53:41
Speaker 1: groups I've been part of, that that's the place where
53:42
Speaker 1: we end up focusing the most because that's where most
53:47
Speaker 1: of the healing happens. Once we can get to that
53:50
Speaker 1: place of being vulnerable and being authentic and not trying
53:54
Speaker 1: to hide or not trying to not feel or whatever
53:58
Speaker 1: it is that, just speaking for me, man, that was
54:05
Speaker 1: a huge place of growth for me. I told Ray
54:07
Speaker 1: one day, I said, You know, the new currency is authenticity,
54:13
Speaker 1: being authentic, because it's such a rarity, it seems. I
54:18
Speaker 1: really don't think it's that rare. I think people want
54:20
Speaker 1: to be authentic. They just don't feel safe in doing it.
54:24
Speaker 1: But the more people that do it, it becomes like
54:28
Speaker 1: this exchange, this currency where, oh, listen to this man
54:33
Speaker 1: share his story about this very vulnerable thing and how
54:38
Speaker 1: authentic and how it makes me feel within me. This
54:41
Speaker 1: makes me feel like, wow. And then that says, well,
54:45
Speaker 1: I have this story. Maybe I could share that and
54:47
Speaker 1: someone else could also have that feeling. And it just
54:52
Speaker 1: balloons out. It's just, it's expansive. And I think that's
54:55
Speaker 1: how humanity eventually goes through a deeper healing and we
55:01
Speaker 1: start to have a deeper realization of who we really are.
55:05
Speaker 1: we're way more than we have any idea about.
55:09
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Well, I just think we've been conditioned, poisoned
55:15
Speaker 3: to put who we are aside. We're these mass of
55:20
Speaker 3: people showing up and presenting ourselves how we think other
55:26
Speaker 3: people want to see us instead of putting our authentic
55:29
Speaker 3: selves out there. And I just think, I think you're right.
55:34
Speaker 3: The world right now is craving authenticity. Yes. I was,
55:39
Speaker 3: and I didn't even know it.
55:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
55:42
Speaker 1: I think everyone is and may not know it.
55:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. And people can see through fake, which
55:51
Speaker 3: I think is emerging. We just accepted the world as
55:56
Speaker 3: it was. It's this way because it always has been
55:59
Speaker 3: and because of tradition and because big media said so
56:03
Speaker 3: or whatever. But I think as a whole, I've seen
56:06
Speaker 3: a shift that people can see through that. People are
56:10
Speaker 3: turning the TV off. People are doing more things for themselves.
56:15
Speaker 3: I see this throughout the country, really. It feels like
56:22
Speaker 3: a movement, almost, where people realize, what I've been doing
56:28
Speaker 3: is not working. I can see the bull crap in this.
56:33
Speaker 3: I can see the bull crap in that. And I
56:36
Speaker 3: really just want to be myself. Yeah.
56:40
Speaker 1: I think that.
56:41
Speaker 2: I want to be myself.
56:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. We've been seeing this even from when we were
56:46
Speaker 1: going through it. But when humanity, not just the U.S.,
56:50
Speaker 1: but the entire planet.
56:51
Speaker 3: I agree with that.
56:52
Speaker 1: Got to experience what happened in 2020. Yeah. It shined
56:56
Speaker 1: a light on.
56:58
Speaker 2: There's.
56:59
Speaker 1: Lots of stuff going on that I had no idea about.
57:02
Speaker 1: There's lots of things that I made assumptions were real
57:06
Speaker 1: and true that aren't. And I think in hindsight, in
57:14
Speaker 1: 100 years, when we look back on that, it's going
57:17
Speaker 1: to be a catalyst to a significant change for humanity
57:21
Speaker 1: in general. And you can get stuck in what's true
57:26
Speaker 1: and what's not true. That's beyond the point. The point
57:29
Speaker 1: is it shifted our skepticalness. We became skeptical and our
57:39
Speaker 1: willingness to just accept things being told to us went away.
57:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
57:44
Speaker 1: And now we question. And I think that's a healthy thing.
57:48
Speaker 1: When we question, it's healthy. It pushes back against... that
57:54
Speaker 1: paradigm of power, whether it's political or religious or whatever
57:59
Speaker 1: kind of system it is out there, it pushes back
58:04
Speaker 1: against all of that and it becomes the genuine authenticity
58:10
Speaker 1: of each individual person. Each individual person having their own
58:14
Speaker 1: life experience. And we all get to just be mirrors
58:17
Speaker 1: for each other. It takes all of us to have
58:21
Speaker 1: that experience. It's not any one group. And it's not
58:24
Speaker 1: about being right. It's about being open and it's about
58:28
Speaker 1: being willing and about being loving and compassionate and kind
58:32
Speaker 1: and just holding each other's hands as we walk through
58:34
Speaker 1: all this stuff.
58:36
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go. So I'm going to ask you
58:39
Speaker 3: a question. I agree with everything that you just said,
58:42
Speaker 3: but to play devil's advocate of myself a year ago,
58:46
Speaker 3: or possibly you at some point in your life, if
58:48
Speaker 3: you were to hear someone say that and think, that's
58:52
Speaker 3: a utopian dream that will never exist. So does that
58:57
Speaker 3: mean that we don't try? That's what I'm thinking. Yeah,
59:01
Speaker 3: not everyone will be there, and it's never going to
59:03
Speaker 3: be perfect. But my mindset now thinks, yeah, that's fine,
59:08
Speaker 3: but we can still improve ourselves. We are here on
59:12
Speaker 3: our own journey. Each individual has an individual journey. And
59:16
Speaker 3: if we're letting outside sources that may be right, may
59:21
Speaker 3: be completely full of baloney, if we're letting them and
59:25
Speaker 3: how we perceive that people are perceiving us guide our existence...
59:30
Speaker 3: That's not a life I'm interested in living anymore. Yeah,
59:33
Speaker 3: me neither.
59:34
Speaker 2: In fact, for us, we found that we didn't need
59:38
Speaker 2: to open the door and just step full in to
59:41
Speaker 2: something that we hadn't experienced yet. But the door had
59:45
Speaker 2: to open where we were willing to be curious about
59:48
Speaker 2: the what if. And once that happened, you can't unsee
59:55
Speaker 2: where curiosity takes you. And once that started, it was like, well,
1:00:00
Speaker 2: if that's true, then maybe I should be curious over
1:00:04
Speaker 2: here with this or with that or with this. And suddenly,
1:00:09
Speaker 2: just curiosity now in general, even if it's someone having
1:00:13
Speaker 2: an opinion about anything, just instead of defending or resisting
1:00:20
Speaker 2: or accepting, just become really curious as to why they
1:00:23
Speaker 2: feel that way and why you either agree with them
1:00:25
Speaker 2: or that you don't. Because curiosity can be a tremendous
1:00:29
Speaker 2: tool partner in this journey of just figuring out who
1:00:33
Speaker 2: you are.
1:00:34
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And along with that, a lot of times I
1:00:37
Speaker 3: found myself, someone will say something, again, religious, political, you know,
1:00:42
Speaker 3: just in a random conversation, and I feel a strong emotion.
1:00:47
Speaker 3: And old me would have been like, they're wrong because
1:00:52
Speaker 3: I felt an emotion. Now I go, oh, I feel
1:00:57
Speaker 3: an emotion. I must care what they're talking about. Now
1:01:00
Speaker 3: let me sit with this and not run from it,
1:01:03
Speaker 3: not be afraid that I feel a human emotion, but
1:01:06
Speaker 3: let me figure out why I feel this and what
1:01:09
Speaker 3: does it mean.
1:01:10
Speaker 1: Where is it coming from?
1:01:11
Speaker 3: Where is it coming from? And it might be an
1:01:13
Speaker 3: emotion that I like. I'm like, oh, I like this conversation.
1:01:17
Speaker 3: I need to have more of these conversations with this
1:01:19
Speaker 3: sort of people. Or it's a bad emotion. I'm like, oh,
1:01:23
Speaker 3: let me sit with this and figure out, am I
1:01:25
Speaker 3: feeling this because I disagree with them? Am I feeling
1:01:28
Speaker 3: this because I'm uncomfortable that I know they're right and
1:01:31
Speaker 3: I've always thought something different? Or, you know, it could
1:01:33
Speaker 3: be a hundred different things. Right. But being authentic and
1:01:38
Speaker 3: living with purpose, I don't run from my emotions anymore.
1:01:41
Speaker 3: And that's been so powerful. It's brought a lot of
1:01:43
Speaker 3: growth to realize these are human emotions that I should
1:01:50
Speaker 3: learn from. Yeah. I can't run from them. And so
1:01:54
Speaker 3: many times in different situations, we feel an emotion and think,
1:01:58
Speaker 3: I feel something. You have to stop talking.
1:02:00
Speaker 1: Right.
1:02:00
Speaker 3: And that's not the case.
1:02:02
Speaker 2: No. Yeah. In fact, uh, emotions are our teachers. And when,
1:02:07
Speaker 2: once you get that, you then see like, Oh, because
1:02:11
Speaker 2: for a long time, anything emotional was just more of a,
1:02:15
Speaker 2: I took it that I was out of, I was
1:02:17
Speaker 2: losing control or that I wasn't, um, I didn't see
1:02:22
Speaker 2: it as a teacher. I saw it as a bad
1:02:25
Speaker 2: aspect of myself. Oh, I'm getting emotional about something. And
1:02:28
Speaker 2: then it was like, oh, no, wait, that's actually bringing
1:02:32
Speaker 2: up something that I have to understand about myself, why
1:02:37
Speaker 2: that feels the way it does, whether it's just suppressed
1:02:41
Speaker 2: joy even or a suppressed fear or a suppressed, you know,
1:02:46
Speaker 2: aspect about myself that I'm, you know, that I didn't
1:02:49
Speaker 2: get to have that chapter. And so when I, when
1:02:52
Speaker 2: I witnessed that chapter with someone else's having, I, I
1:02:56
Speaker 2: get emotional about it. And so I love when you
1:03:00
Speaker 2: find that emotion, all of those broad range of emotions
1:03:04
Speaker 2: are teachers and they're nothing to be feared. They're to
1:03:07
Speaker 2: really be embraced.
1:03:09
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah. And I, Give yourself space to feel them
1:03:15
Speaker 3: without reacting. That's been powerful to me too. I'm not
1:03:20
Speaker 3: real good at it yet, but I'm just becoming aware
1:03:23
Speaker 3: that when I feel an emotion, I don't have to
1:03:26
Speaker 3: instantly speak or act. But I'm just now learning that
1:03:32
Speaker 3: when I feel something, to just pause. To pause, sit
1:03:37
Speaker 3: with it, even if it's for one second.
1:03:40
Speaker 1: Right.
1:03:41
Speaker 3: It gives me space to see it different and to
1:03:44
Speaker 3: speak different or to not speak. So that's something that's
1:03:50
Speaker 3: been valuable to me that I would challenge anybody to
1:03:52
Speaker 3: try and implement. If you're looking for one thing to
1:03:55
Speaker 3: take away from this and you're, you know, whatever, learn
1:04:00
Speaker 3: to give yourself space with your emotions. That's very, very healing.
1:04:05
Speaker 3: It's very telling. And it opens yourself up for a
1:04:08
Speaker 3: lot of growth. Yeah.
1:04:12
Speaker 1: Learn how to feel.
1:04:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:04:14
Speaker 2: And sit with it. Like allow it to simmer.
1:04:16
Speaker 3: Yeah. There you go.
1:04:18
Speaker 1: And shift and change.
1:04:19
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:04:19
Speaker 2: Because I'm sure it does. Yeah.
1:04:21
Speaker 3: Because my whole life I felt something. I'm like, oh, stop, run,
1:04:24
Speaker 3: end this conversation. They're wrong because I feel something. And that's,
1:04:28
Speaker 3: I've been so wrong. I've been so wrong.
1:04:31
Speaker 1: So. That's beautiful.
1:04:33
Speaker 2: Oh, Jeff, this has been a fabulous conversation. I'm so
1:04:36
Speaker 2: glad that you came and joined us. And I love
1:04:39
Speaker 2: hearing about Bonded Brotherhood and the things that you're doing.
1:04:44
Speaker 2: We'll definitely need to put in the show notes all
1:04:46
Speaker 2: about where to reach you and how to reach you.
1:04:49
Speaker 2: When's your next event that you're going to be holding?
1:04:52
Speaker 3: This Friday. Oh, wow. Yeah, this one is just going
1:04:55
Speaker 3: to be fun. This is, well, mostly, purely fun. So
1:05:00
Speaker 3: this one is in Cornish, Utah. My wife grew up
1:05:04
Speaker 3: on a dairy farm and her dad, my father-in-law, has
1:05:09
Speaker 3: this piece of property that goes down into the river bottoms,
1:05:11
Speaker 3: down into the Bear Rivers. And about 15 years ago,
1:05:14
Speaker 3: he thought, I need to turn this into something the
1:05:16
Speaker 3: family can use because it's just all trees and wooded.
1:05:19
Speaker 3: So he spent a couple years down there with the
1:05:23
Speaker 3: tractor and back hose and cleared out this spot down
1:05:27
Speaker 3: in the river bottoms. And now it's this big grassy
1:05:29
Speaker 3: field with a big pavilion and lights and a huge
1:05:33
Speaker 3: redneck water slide. And he dug a pond in there
1:05:35
Speaker 3: with zip lines and we're going to just go be kids.
1:05:39
Speaker 3: That sounds like fun and have fun. Yeah.
1:05:42
Speaker 1: Come up. Who wouldn't want to do that?
1:05:44
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a good time. We're just going to, we're
1:05:46
Speaker 3: just going to relax and have fun and be a
1:05:48
Speaker 3: little bit vulnerable and eat good food. Um, yeah. So
1:05:53
Speaker 3: in just a couple of days, so.
1:05:55
Speaker 2: And then otherwise events are, you'll either share them on
1:05:59
Speaker 2: your Instagram or on your website.
1:06:01
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, um, I'll put things out on the website,
1:06:05
Speaker 3: put them out on the Slack page, put them out
1:06:07
Speaker 3: on Instagram.
1:06:09
Speaker 1: Instagram handle is Bonded Brotherhood, right?
1:06:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Bonded Brotherhood. We do have one planned overnight.
1:06:19
Speaker 3: I think it's a two-night camping retreat up Logan Canyon.
1:06:24
Speaker 3: I rented a guard station up there, so it'll be private.
1:06:28
Speaker 3: That will be September 26th through the 28th, I believe. Okay. Yeah,
1:06:35
Speaker 3: that'll be the next overnighter.
1:06:36
Speaker 2: That's a perfect time up there.
1:06:38
Speaker 3: Oh, it's going to be beautiful.
1:06:38
Speaker 2: Oh, that canyon will be so beautiful.
1:06:40
Speaker 3: Yeah.
1:06:41
Speaker 1: Leaves might be starting to turn around then.
1:06:43
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, they should be. Definitely. We should have some
1:06:45
Speaker 3: color up there and a little crisp in the air
1:06:47
Speaker 3: in the evening. It's going to be awesome.
1:06:49
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that's nice.
1:06:50
Speaker 1: Logan Canyon is one of my favorite places to drive
1:06:52
Speaker 1: in the fall. It's so beautiful up there.
1:06:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
1:06:56
Speaker 1: Great.
1:06:57
Speaker 3: But again, guys, I want to publicly express my love
1:07:01
Speaker 3: and gratitude and thankfulness for you two. For you two who,
1:07:07
Speaker 3: being authentic and being yourselves and putting yourselves out there
1:07:11
Speaker 3: for the world, you're truly making a difference. If you
1:07:17
Speaker 3: ever think that you're not, just think of me and
1:07:21
Speaker 3: think that my kids have a dad because of you two.
1:07:25
Speaker 2: Wow.
1:07:26
Speaker 3: And I mean that, so thank you.
1:07:28
Speaker 2: Makes me emotional.
1:07:28
Speaker 1: You can't make me cry at the end, Jeff.
1:07:31
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
1:07:33
Speaker 3: I just did, but I can't say thank you enough.
1:07:39
Speaker 3: And I will always be humble enough to give credit
1:07:42
Speaker 3: where credit is due.
1:07:44
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. We're honored to have you here. Right.
1:07:47
Speaker 1: You know, we've felt like we wanted to have you
1:07:50
Speaker 1: on here for a while. First time I heard your podcast,
1:07:54
Speaker 1: I was like, well, this is something special. that needs
1:07:57
Speaker 1: to be out there. So we're going to encourage everyone
1:08:00
Speaker 1: to go check out your podcast. Again, Bonded Brotherhood is
1:08:03
Speaker 1: where they can find that on all the podcasts.
1:08:05
Speaker 3: All the podcasts, yeah. I shortened it to Bonded Bros
1:08:09
Speaker 3: just so I can have more characters to type in
1:08:11
Speaker 3: mental health or whatever. It's an SEO thing, but it's
1:08:14
Speaker 3: Bonded Bros on the podcast.
1:08:17
Speaker 1: Okay, great. All right. Well, until next time then, thank you.
1:08:20
Speaker 3: Bye.
1:08:21
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1:09:04
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