Latest / Spiritual Hot Sauce / “The Book of Enoch and Other Interesting Chats - Campfire Fun with Dustin Wright” Ep#21

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“The Book of Enoch and Other Interesting Chats - Campfire Fun with Dustin Wright” Ep#21 · Spiritual Hot Sauce

• 0:00
  Chris Jones: Were there giants?
• 0:01
  Chris Jones: What really was the Tower of Babel?
• 0:04
  Chris Jones: On this episode, Dustin Wright, co-host of Raising the Wild Ones, shares his ideas on the Book of Enoch as well as some unusual stories from the Bible.
• 0:14
  Chris Jones: So join us for a little campfire fun.
• 0:24
  Chris Jones: Welcome.
• 0:25
  Chris Jones: I'm Chris Jones.
• 0:26
  Chris Jones: This is where believers and skeptics alike are invited to embark on a journey of faith, philosophy, and life from a different perspective.
• 0:35
  Chris Jones: Whether we are joined by an insightful guest or we just jump into the deep end, this exploration promises to challenge us all.
• 0:43
  Chris Jones: Are we getting it right?
• 0:45
  Chris Jones: This is Spiritual Hot Sauce.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Sauce, Dustin.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's good to be here.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Excited about this one.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be fun.
• 1:00
  Chris Jones: Yeah, this will be fun.
• 1:01
  Chris Jones: I'm looking forward to this.
• 1:03
  Chris Jones: And Dustin is co-host of Raising the Wild Ones, which I happen to enjoy that podcast a lot.
• 1:11
  Chris Jones: And I got to tell you, though, when I first saw it, I was a little confused because it's you and what's your co-host name?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a buddy of my name, Caleb.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Caleb Gamblin's his name.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's just fun stuff.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's probably fairly confusing.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: We jump back and forth through a lot of different topics, kind of all over the place in a lot of ways, you know.
• 1:31
  Chris Jones: So yeah, your logo is you guys sitting at a campfire.
• 1:35
  Chris Jones: And I was like, what in the world is this about?
• 1:37
  Chris Jones: Until I got into it and started realizing you guys have conversations that you would have sitting around a campfire.
• 1:43
  Chris Jones: It's like you just said, you go anywhere and talk about different things, which I love because we it gives you the opportunity, the opportunity to disconnect from your everyday life of what you're kind of in the flow of doing and allows you to get out underneath the stars and around a campfire and have these discussions that we typically don't get to have.
• 2:04
  Chris Jones: So I really like it because you guys do some really nice things.
• 2:08
  Chris Jones: How long has uh Raising the Wild Ones been around?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: We have we're probably about a just a little bit over a year.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all we launched in August of 2024, is when we launched our podcast.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we kind of, I mean, we started really kind of just discussing some of these like core fundamental Christian beliefs, like, you know, what is God, what is, you know, Jesus, who is Jesus, you know, we discussed the Trinity and stuff like that.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then we really kind of, like you said, started discussing some just just a lot of conversations that you wouldn't you wouldn't necessarily hear in the four year of of church before before church.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Just like but a lot of these things that are important to Christianity, you know, need to be discussed, but you just don't really hear many people talking about them.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:57
  Chris Jones: So we was talking about you and being heavily involved with the youth.
• 3:02
  Chris Jones: And I know you have your children involved with your podcast occasionally.
• 3:06
  Chris Jones: Is that correct?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is correct.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: They they like to we do a segment called Rednecks Read the Bible, because you know, we're all just rednecks down here.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: And where is here where you're from Texas?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Where we are in, we're located in Central Texas.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Central Texas.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So a little bit.
• 3:23
  Chris Jones: So you don't know much about this cold we're having up here in the north then, do you?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: My wife is actually from western New York State outside of Buffalo.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I have I have been up there a couple times and she knows it way better than I do, but no, you probably wouldn't be happy if I told you it was like 74 was the high today.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:47
  Chris Jones: You guys.
• 3:48
  Chris Jones: You guys are having much better weather than we are right now.
• 3:52
  Chris Jones: So with your podcast, I I've listened to some of the episodes, obviously.
• 3:58
  Chris Jones: I try to listen often, but you guys also get into some pretty funky stuff that you would talk about around a campfire.
• 4:06
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 4:06
  Chris Jones: So you was telling me about I remember being younger, and I heard this audio, and it was on I forget what show it was.
• 4:13
  Chris Jones: It was like one of those 70s, 80s shows.
• 4:16
  Chris Jones: And they had some, I think it was a cassette recorder, a real to reel.
• 4:20
  Chris Jones: They had recorded out in a cabin, and they were like, I don't know what they said it was.
• 4:24
  Chris Jones: Maybe there was like a Bigfoot or something.
• 4:26
  Chris Jones: And they'd recorded.
• 4:27
  Chris Jones: I remember they had these linguistics on there, and they had these acoustic experts on there.
• 4:31
  Chris Jones: So this is before AI and you could manipulate, and they said, this is not human.
• 4:36
  Chris Jones: So you actually found this guy and had him on your show, did you not?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: We we actually haven't released that episode yet.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: But when is that coming?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're going.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's probably going to be in the first of the year.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we're in, I don't, I don't know if our podcast does seasons, but we're taking a break for the month of December.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: But we have we have found that guy, and we've recorded one episode where he talks about these sounds that he recorded.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they're called the Sierra Sounds.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: He was like in a cabin, right?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so we found him and we talked to him about that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: But then what's a really interesting conversation is we got into a conversation with the guy just about theology.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so we actually had him on a second time where we just discussed theology with this guy.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like, in a lot of ways, of like, how does you know theology, the study of God, and kind of like digging into these things, how does this affect Bigfoot and the Bigfoot sounds?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Which sounds like really weird.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, why would you want to talk about that?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And my question is, is why not about stuff like that?
• 5:40
  Chris Jones: It's this campfire talk, right?
• 5:42
  Chris Jones: This is the kind of things you talk about around the campfire.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it was and it's a real neat conversation that we had with him.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he's had, he's got some interesting views that don't necessarily line up with ours, but uh but it was just a conversation where, you know, we're talking about our views, he's talking about his, and we're just having this big discussion about well, okay, how did how did this event affect the way we view the world and thus the way we view God in the world around us?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:13
  Chris Jones: So you guys welcome a lot of conversations like that.
• 6:16
  Chris Jones: This may not be like yours, correct?
• 6:18
  Chris Jones: And it uh gives insight.
• 6:20
  Chris Jones: Uh I think it it's helpful to everybody.
• 6:22
  Chris Jones: I think it's good to hear these things.
• 6:24
  Chris Jones: So I apologize for that.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell It's it's fun.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's fun.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we get some interesting, you know, and different viewpoints.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and but at the end of the day, you know, I mean it just you sit there and you talk to somebody, and if somebody can pick, you know, just some nuggets out of your conversations and just understand it just a little bit more, then then that's then that's where it is, right?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like God can use any conversation, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And God can use anything for his glory and for his good.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's well, why shy away from the hard conversations?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of the way me and me and Caleb, my co-host, we we view it is why shy away from hard conversations?
• 7:02
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 7:03
  Chris Jones: Yeah, I don't think you should.
• 7:04
  Chris Jones: So has it evolved your podcast since you started it?
• 7:09
  Chris Jones: Because when you first started, what did you actually ideally think it was going to be?
• 7:13
  Chris Jones: And now what has it become?
• 7:14
  Chris Jones: Because everybody, when I talk to them about their podcast, it's evolved into something different.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not sure what we envisioned our podcast to be.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we picked the idea of raising the wild ones to kind of like discuss maybe more or less not really a parenting podcast, but like how do we incorporate, you know, you know, being fathers and stuff like that and bring that together into this podcast.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then we both like had this idea and this kind of thought process of man, we like a lot of these weirder sections of the Bible.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, a lot of these stuff that like people don't really talk about, you know.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you got Genesis six and and like all this kind of stuff, and and and and especially like even some of these more like fringe biblical topics.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Well, we both like these.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we should talk about these.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, tell me about Genesis.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's a ton on that one.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Genesis six is a fun one.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, I because we got the whole story of Noah, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so you got the story of Noah, but then you have this whole little section kind of at the beginning of Genesis six, where it says the sons of the God came down, right?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And they saw the women and saw that they were pleasing, right?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then it says that the Nephilim were on the earth in those days.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Man, it's like one of the best parts is like you don't drop a little information, like the Nephilim were on those, on the earth in those days, and then it says, and thereafter, and then it's like you just leave it.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what does that even mean?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are the Nephilim?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are the sons of God?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you kind of start digging into this, you you can start looking at some other different forms of like theology, and you can start you know pulling things from like the book of Enoch or something like that.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Digging into the book of Enoch, man, that's a cool that's a that's a can of worms right there.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's it's really interesting and it's neat.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: You start digging into these different aspects, and you're like, well, okay, like if this was important to the ancient Israelites and if this was important to the Hebrews, yeah, right.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: If it's important enough that they wrote about it, then it's important enough that we shouldn't just glaze over it, you know.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like some of those weirder sections.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we need to talk about that.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: We need to discuss that.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:26
  Chris Jones: So have you dove into the book of Enoch?
• 9:28
  Chris Jones: Have you opened that can of worms up, as you say?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've oh, a couple times we've talked about it on the podcast, and then I've done a couple episodes just kind of like digging into it.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I I've read it a couple times.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's what's your thoughts on it?
• 9:43
  Chris Jones: Tell me it's the watchers, right?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what they're called?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: The watchers.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if if I understand correctly, the book of Enoch is actually broken down into like five different sections.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's like five different books within the overall arching book of Enoch.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, it all comes down to dating of these books.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So the first like two or three sections of the book of Enoch date very closely to like Second Temple Judaism.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we got dating back into the Old Testament.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, some of the newer sections of the Book of Enoch, you know, some of like the last two sections, those date later.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it kind of depends.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: But what's really interesting, even into the Can I ask real quick?
• 10:25
  Chris Jones: I'm sorry I don't interrupt.
• 10:27
  Chris Jones: So are you saying like the first two or three chapters they think are pre-Hellenistic?
• 10:32
  Chris Jones: And then the second or the end of it they think has been Hellenistic, it's been influenced by the Greek culture?
• 10:39
  Chris Jones: Possibly, yeah.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's kind of the thought progress there.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not like it's it's it's kind of so the book of Enoch is broken up into five different books.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like you got the Book of the Watchers, you got the book of prophecy, you got the book of dreams and visions.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I should have pulled that up.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a terrible person for not remembering it all.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like what one of the like one key thing that I that I found kind of digging into is so Jesus refers to himself as the son of man.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: That that reference is referenced in the book of Enoch.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: In the book of Enoch, there's like prophecies that discuss a son of man.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And where things get really, really interesting is is this a big deal?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if this is a big deal, if it predates Jesus.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if this predates Jesus, then it's prophecy concerning Jesus.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: If this does not predate Jesus, then it's a big enough deal that they're using, you know, the son of man title that Jesus used, and they're like pulling it into this book.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like it's one of those deals that you'll have a lot of people who will say things like, Well, the book of Enoch is, you know, the forbidden book that was hidden away on purpose.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or you can get really deep into the woods on that.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the things I've got to say is read it for yourself, see what you think.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the thing is like with Christianity, we got the Holy Spirit helps us discern different things and understand it.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, does that mean we shy away from these weirder topics and these weirder books?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, no, read them, see what you think.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because even Jude, Jude quotes the book of Enoch.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so in the book of Jode, Jude, it quotes the book of Enoch.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And Second Peter, second, I think Second Peter also quotes or refers to the book of Enoch.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like we've got these two New Testament writings that kind of look towards this book that was written, and it's like, well, okay.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it is, if it is just early Jewish historical writing, that's still important and that still focuses on and helps us point towards more of a historical context to Jesus and the Jews.
• 12:47
  Chris Jones: So so everybody knows kind of what you're talking about.
• 12:50
  Chris Jones: So the book of Enoch, the the thing that everybody gets excited about is it talks about the Nephilim, correct?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's the that's in the first section it talks about.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: One of the one of the big things that really kind of that first section talks about, it talks about the sons of God.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it talks about how the sons of God came down and the things that they gave mankind in exchange for this relationship with the women, right?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like it talks about how the sons of God, when they came down in the first section of the Book of Watchers, it talks about that they gave them metallurgy.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: It gave them how to cut roots and and find medicines, which which gets really interesting because when you start digging into the translation on that, I got a good buddy of mine.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the moments where I need to call Joel and be like, Joel, you need to tell me what this means.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But like when you when you do it.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody needs a Joel, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's my he's my Hebrew guy.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, I tell him, like, Joel, you're my Hebrew guy.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Every time I have a Hebrew question, you're my Hebrew guy.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, but he was we were talking about this whole idea, and he's like, when it comes to the book of Enoch, where it tells that where it says that they learned how to cut herbs and medicine, it's not what we necessarily think of medicine, but it's more of like psychedelics and drugs type stuff.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: The way it's translated is like both and.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And also the most like especially the Book of Watchers, you know, when they're telling the story of the Book of Watchers, it's it's pre-Genesis six and it's pre-flood.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so when God comes and floods the earth, it's like, well, he's flooding the earth because of what we read.
• 15:23
  Chris Jones: And how does it describe these these Nephilim?
• 15:28
  Chris Jones: Well, I mean, what is their characteristics?
• 15:29
  Chris Jones: How is it what's their image?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Nephilim, Nephilim's a fun one because it doesn't necessarily describe the image of the Nephilim.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It it talks a lot about the sons of God, which are kind of two different entities.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: You've got the sons of God, and then where things get interesting, where it starts discussing the Nephilim, is the Nephilim are the offspring of that relationship between the sons of God and the women, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the Nephilim are the offspring of this.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it talks about the Nephilim are like giants.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: They are, but we we get a different perspective from different recordings.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's some aspects of the book of Enoch where it talks about how they are as big as the Cedars in Lebanon, which the Cedars of Lebanon were massive, right?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so you kind of get this idea where you have like giants that could be, you know, 20, 30 foot tall.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then you kind of come into the biblical, you know, texts and start looking into those.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you get even the whole idea of like David and Goliath, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of people who are like, well, Goliath was just a tall dude.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: He was just like six foot, but then you start looking at the cubit, which is used for height, and that puts David around or Goliath around nine to ten feet.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like basically like when you talk about Nephilim, it's like the idea of just giants.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, how big were the giants' words?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Your guess is as good as mine.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Could they have been like 60-foot dudes?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 16:49
  Chris Jones: So I mean if well, I mean, and I I'm just jumping in here because this sounds fun to me.
• 16:57
  Chris Jones: But if Goliath was that height, but that wasn't at the time of when all that happened, so it would have been generationally got smaller and smaller and smaller.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's possibility for that, yeah.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of one of those deals like where you're asking my thoughts on it, man.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know, but I have a big imagination.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I think these dudes might have been pretty massive, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But then I mean, we and when we start looking at like science, I got I got another another buddy of mine, he's been on our podcast a couple times.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: His name is uh Judd Burton, his Dr.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Judd Burton, and he's a biblical like anthropologist looking at the people groups in the biblical times.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and he'll tell us like his whole discussion is you get into the whole idea of like megafauna that we know that was on the earth, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: These giant plants and all this kind of stuff.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he'll say, Well, all that was pre-Genesis 6.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, So giants could have been some real big dudes, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they did a lot of like terrible things.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: We can tell that through the book of Enoch, you know, how, you know, basically in the book of Enoch, God enacts his judgment and tells Enoch, hey, you're gonna go tell these guys, you know, what's going down and the judgment that's to come.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's so it's like it talks about how the offspring of the Nephilim are gonna fight each other and they're just going to be eradicated from the world, and the sons of God are just gonna have to watch this happen.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's kind of how the whole process of the book of Enoch, how it goes through it.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like you start talking about how big they were and all that kind of stuff or what they looked like, and it's it's I don't want to say it's anyone's guess, but I mean they could be really big, they could be averagely big.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like a 12-foot dude's gonna be stinking huge, if you ask me.
• 18:42
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 18:43
  Chris Jones: Oh my gosh, yeah.
• 18:44
  Chris Jones: So sons of God, uh is this like supposed to be fallen angels?
• 18:49
  Chris Jones: Is that what we're saying?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's another, I mean, that's another kind of fun one where you can talk about is this the idea of so I mean we get some ideas like in Ezekiel where we talk about like the divine counsel.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can get this idea even through Job, where at the beginning of Job where it says like Satan's roaming the earth looking for somebody, and you know, he comes before God and they're like, Hey, have you, you know, talked about my servant Job?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Satan's like, well, okay, but you know, and so you get that whole story there, but that kind of gives you the idea that you know God is holding court, you know, with these other, I don't say like divine beings, but you can kind of discuss like angels, you know, those sorts of things.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's surrounded by this idea of like, you know, sons of God.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so some people will say that the sons of God that came down are like the fallen angels that fell with Satan, you know, when all that happened.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Other people were say, well, maybe they weren't those fallen angels, but they were a different group of fallen angels, since we don't have like an exact judgment for Satan himself, you know, kind of written within that Satan's judgment is you know, later on through the New Testament.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we can get like these different references and kind of almost a glimpse.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we're we're Things are really interesting.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of to me discusses like what how the Bible was like written, you know, in a way to show, you know, Christ and show the light that is to come, not necessarily the darkness that has happened.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, these are all fun things we can talk about, but it doesn't necessarily say exactly what the sons of God were.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if Joel were here, he would be like, no, Dustin, this is what the sons of God were.
• 20:27
  Chris Jones: Again, everybody needs a Joel.
• 20:30
  Chris Jones: Everybody needs a good Hebrew guy of a Joel.
• 20:32
  Chris Jones: So well, let me ask you, what's your personal feelings?
• 20:35
  Chris Jones: Is Jesus actually quoting the book of Enoch, or do you think it was the reverse-engineered that it came after to try to give it credibility?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you want to know kind of like my personal thoughts on it, I I think in some instances Jesus is referring to himself as the Son of Man because of the Book of Enoch.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think in some instances the Book of Enoch did come first.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so does that give the Book of Enoch legitimacy?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in some ways, yes.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Does that also mean that not the entire book of Enoch has legitimacy?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: In some ways, yes, because some of the later parts of the book of Enoch were written after Jesus.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: But there are spots where it clearly talks about a son of man that is to come, and then it gives a fairly detailed kind of just not necessarily description of Jesus, but what Jesus is going to do.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then Jesus is referring to himself as a son of man.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I think he's doing that to kind of be like, hey guys, look over here.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: You guys remember that book of Enoch that was written?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know, it's like I'm that guy.
• 21:40
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Chris Jones: Oh yeah.
• 21:42
  Chris Jones: That's interesting stuff.
• 21:44
  Chris Jones: That's interesting stuff.
• 21:45
  Chris Jones: So do you think that Goliath was one of these Nephilim, one of these offsprings?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I I think he was a giant, yes.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I it's uh you talk about like Nephilim itself.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on if you're discussing the you know direct descendants.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think he was a descendant of the Nephilim, you know, in some way, shape, or form.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, thus, thus in fact, yeah, Nephilim, but he was definitely a giant.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what's really interesting when you look into like even like the book of Enoch and other historical Jewish writings says that Nephilim or not Nephilim, that David had five brothers.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then we've even got to those other stones, right?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he picks up five stones, and it's like it's little stuff like that that they're not going to teach you that in vacation Bible school.
• 22:32
  Chris Jones: No, no.
• 22:34
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 22:35
  Chris Jones: So if Nephilim was around back then, that means there's descendants of Nephilim around now.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's the$10 million question, right?
• 22:44
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So what part of the world would those guys be in?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting into like modern stories and modern tales and stuff.
• 22:53
  Chris Jones: Huss is off no, this is campfire.
• 22:55
  Chris Jones: You got me on your campfire.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's discussions, man.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like even you want to talk about like modern stuff.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is there was there's an account of what they say the Kandahar Giant.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say this happened during the first Gulf War, I think.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I can't remember.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't quote me here.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: This is weird stuff that Dustin's read and looked at.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like an account of a special forces team within, you know, relative, you know, close times to us today.
• 23:25
  Chris Jones: And I do want to qualify that you're we're moving away from the book of Enoch and anything scripture this way.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just chatting, right?
• 23:34
  Chris Jones: Yeah, this is just fun.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it's kind of the idea of, you know, a special forces team encounters possibly a giant.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now, did this happen?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so we kind of get into the idea of are there Nephilim like today and here today?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's and then we go back into the Old Testament and we see like the conquest of Joshua and how Joshua was specifically like going after the Canaanites, and he's specifically going after these quote unquote giant races, right?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he's yeah, it's like it's the final judgment to destroy them and and and maybe in some way wipe them off the earth.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: So how does that look today's terms where we are today?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's interesting stuff to think about and kind of discuss.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, could there possibly be?
• 24:20
  Chris Jones: Well, I'm sure they wouldn't be that tall now because they've been, you know, after generations of getting shorter and shorter and shorter.
• 24:29
  Chris Jones: But I'm sure they would have some genetic mutations that everybody else wouldn't have.
• 24:33
  Chris Jones: There's something different about them, right?
• 24:35
  Chris Jones: Oh, yeah.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's some some talks are six fingers and six toes, something like that.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I've heard that before.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard I've heard that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's some other stuff that I've kind of heard that might be some of those genetic markers, I guess.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just I'm just spitballing here.
• 24:56
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 24:56
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 24:57
  Chris Jones: Well, I mean, uh it's it's like you said, it's fun.
• 24:59
  Chris Jones: These are your the kind of stuff.
• 25:01
  Chris Jones: But and so Genesis six, you guys jumped in and and had some fun with that.
• 25:06
  Chris Jones: What are some other places in the Bible that kind of get glossed over as you say, but it's fun.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a I mean, you start talking about like even like Ezekiel and the Valley of the Dry Bones.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's a passage we've probably all heard, you know, if you're in church, you've heard a pastor at some point preach on it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: But then if you stop and think about it, it's like, you know, he's prophesying to these bones and he tells them to grow flesh, grow sinew, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, and like all this stuff happens, and he's like, well, but nothing's gonna happen unless, you know, you know, the breath of God enters them.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, that's interesting, that's cool.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's really neat to think about.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, it's a lot of these like little nuggets that you would get bits and pieces of it like growing up, but you wouldn't like understand the full story.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, because even like Jonah and the whale, I mean, that's an awesome story to tell kids, right?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he gets swallowed by the whale, you know, because he doesn't want to go to Nineveh and all that kind of stuff.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: But then if you like take a moment and stop and see who Jonah is as a person, I mean, at the end of that whole story, and they don't really like we kind of stop teaching it after, you know, he's preached to you know the Nineveh, and then they repent.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then after that, it says he goes up to the top of the mountain to watch God destroy them.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, hold up here, Jonah.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they totally just repented.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, God's not going to destroy them because they repented.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And Jonah's like, no, no, no, no, no, not God.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: God said he was going to pull the trigger, go pull the trigger.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go take care of that.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, it's, I mean, there's a ton of stuff you just kind of sit there and look at and you stop and think and go, well, that's interesting.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little different.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we we talked a little bit about the book of Job.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the book of Job is just a wild book that just kind of talks at the very beginning.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: It says Satan is just prowling around looking for somebody, and he just kind of goes before God, you know, and then God almost like boasts about Job and he's like, Hey man, have you, you know, check out my servant Job down there.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it's like we've got these passages that will get preached on sometimes and get discussed sometimes, but a lot of times they just get kind of like they never get opened up.
• 27:17
  Chris Jones: And yeah, but they are they do need to be opened up.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: They do need to be opened up.
• 27:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like like kind of back into the Genesis 6 a little bit, but like in 2 Peter, there's a whole part where it talks about how Jesus supposedly went down and prophesied, you know, to these entities that fell in the time of Noah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: It it it says he goes down there, prophesies to them, and then comes back.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, well, what does that mean?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Did he go down there and just like tell them, hey guys, I'm the savior?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or does he go down there and says, like, hey guys, you screwed up, I won, tough cookies?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, yeah, but it's like, well, okay, we've got this little passage that it's kind of hard to swallow and it's kind of hard to deal with, but I mean, it's biblical and and and we need to deal with it and and look at it and understand it and try to understand it, you know?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:05
  Chris Jones: And it's just there's there's fun little stuff kind of like all throughout scripture that why do you think that that's been because you're right, you're not going to hear that in a church four-year, and you're definitely not going to hear this stuff from a pulpit, but it is stuff that needs to be talked about.
• 28:20
  Chris Jones: Why do you think it is kind of hush hush while you're in the church?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a that's a tough question to kind of talk about.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because uh I think in a lot of ways, uh, pastors and and sometimes people are scared of what other people might think and view.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like in a lot of ways, we've taken Christianity and we've kind of pulled the Bible down to its bare bones.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, we can talk about Jesus, we can talk about this, and we can talk about that, but all these weird stuff that starts just kind of coming around into the side, it's like, yeah, we don't really like discuss that that much.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, start talking about like demons and like all these sorts of things.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, no, that's just that's fringe, this aside.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, but if it's not getting discussed, and you know, I don't want to say like I keep going back to the foyer, if you're totally hanging out with me and Caleb and the four-year of our church, we're probably talking about weird stuff.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like if it's not getting disgusted in these safe places where we can have these like full discussions, where we can have these hard discussions, then where is it going to get discussed?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, is it ever even going to get talked about?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is it, you know, is it is are we gonna discuss things like you know, demons and even like demon possession and like all these like weird stuff that's like people like, well, no, no, no, no, no.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's just Bible times things.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's not, you know, and it's like if we just kind of leave it there in this little box, then that's where it stays when it's scriptural and God wants us to examine all of scripture, not just bits and pieces of it, you know.
• 29:57
  Chris Jones: Have you studied the will within the will and all that stuff?
• 30:01
  Chris Jones: Uh I've looked into that.
• 30:03
  Chris Jones: Yeah, and I'd like to hear your thoughts.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's Ezekiel's wheel, right?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's talking about.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I haven't looked into that too much.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: That is one that I'm just starting to kind of like dig into, but that's definitely one of those passages that you're like, well, what's what's even going on here?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you start getting into like speculations, like, well, well, is this like, is this aliens?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is this you know that, or is this you know this kind of stuff?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, okay, you know, but when I mean, like kind of back to my other point, when was the last time you heard somebody preach that passage?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like I I'll be honest, I haven't heard one.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Probably I'm not sure if I've ever heard anybody preach, you know, like once when I was a kid.
• 30:46
  Chris Jones: Or once when I was a kid, I heard it, but it wasn't pres it was glossed over.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: It was yeah, yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's a hard passage.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if that's one, I'll be honest, my thoughts probably are kind of like base level on that, and I'm not totally sure where I'm at there yet, because I'm just starting to kind of like dig into that one, you know, and and and really look into it so I can be more knowledgeable.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of the ones we're gonna talk about probably in the spring on our podcast.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's up to go ahead.
• 31:13
  Chris Jones: Get that episode.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear that one.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear what you guys come up with.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: I tell them I'm like, man, you gotta give me a couple months to read into this for a little bit, you know, so I can kind of grasp it and and understand it a little bit more.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Tower of Babel is another fun one, too.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, there's a lot of cool stuff in there.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's the it's the idea of like, what was the Tower of Babel?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: What was going on there?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you got the idea of we we understand this guy named Nimrod was kind of like over the Tower of Babel.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what were they building?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Were they building just a literal tall giant tower to heaven?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what they're building?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or were they trying to build some sort of like maybe portal to you know, wherever it was, you know?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, or were they trying to find Eden?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, because that's the one of the fun ones I always think is really fun, is I tell Caleb all the time, I'm like, hey, I'm gonna go look for Eden.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if I don't come back, then you know those flaming swords dudes that I did found me and they killed me right there.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or I got in.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Or I got in, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, but it's just interesting because even with Eden's a fun one because it's like, low-kay, does that mean Eden can be found?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, God clearly has angels guarding it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it says it right there that angels are guiding Elon.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: That means can we find, you know, the gates to Eden?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh possibly.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting stuff to really discuss.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
• 32:34
  Chris Jones: That's all interesting.
• 32:36
  Chris Jones: The Tower of Babel.
• 32:37
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 32:37
  Chris Jones: You don't think about what they were actually trying to build?
• 32:40
  Chris Jones: What was it that was so yeah.
• 32:43
  Chris Jones: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 32:44
  Chris Jones: You never get into that aspect of it.
• 32:46
  Chris Jones: You just know it's the Tower of Babel and they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.
• 32:49
  Chris Jones: You know, they're upsetting God.
• 32:52
  Chris Jones: They uh was talking about that the Tower of Babel that was built out of pride and arrogance of trying to be like God, what I always refer to as the serpent's venom, pride, because that's the venom that caused Eve to take the fruit, is that she would be like God, you know, is put your throne up with God's.
• 33:09
  Chris Jones: And it was because they were building this Tower of Babel in pride and they were trying to be like God, that through that they were knocked down, there was division, there was war, there was chaos, you know, they spoke different languages, and everything just kind of fell apart.
• 33:26
  Chris Jones: That was a precursor of the upper room on the day of Pentecost, because when the Holy Spirit came down, and when they were in a humble posture there on behalf of Christ, the Holy Spirit came down and the division was gone because they spoke a tongue that they could all understand, and it brought them all together in community.
• 33:49
  Chris Jones: And I thought, man, that's a beautiful symbolism of kind of what happened.
• 33:54
  Chris Jones: Yeah.
• 33:54
  Chris Jones: Earlier you said it, that we break it down to this, the bones of it, and this is what we talk about, but we don't talk about all the other cool stuff that's in there that is a part of it.
• 34:05
  Chris Jones: Why were they building the tower?
• 34:08
  Chris Jones: And how do we build a tower of Babel in our culture and in our life, you know?
• 34:13
  Chris Jones: Because it always ends up the same way.
• 34:15
  Chris Jones: It's it's I talk about archetypal warnings, and it's not just in the Bible, it's in everywhere that we are warned about putting our throne up near God's, that that always ends bad for us.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they shouldn't be doing that, and they're building a giant tower, but it's like, well, what was it?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting stuff because it's like uh Caleb was telling us we were talking about, we were actually originally talking about, you know, the dry bones and that whole thought process there.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, what's what's the core dry bones of Christianity?
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, it's it's A, B, and C, you know, it's well, Jesus and the death on the cross.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, we can give all of that, you know, kind of flesh by looking at it through the entirety of the Bible, you know, and kind of looking at it through the prophecies of Jesus through the Old Testament, you know, even like looking at it through the prophecies, you know, through like the prophets, and then come back and you see into Jesus.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, and even Jesus addresses it when you start talking about, you know, casting out demons and like all of these things going on.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Jesus isn't shying away from these hard topics, you know, Jesus isn't backing off of these things.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, so why should we?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Why should we not also just discuss and talk about them?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Does that mean we're gonna completely and totally understand them?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, I've got a list 10 miles long of what I'm gonna ask God when I get to heaven.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, and I know once I get there, it's not gonna matter anymore, but I'm still gonna ask my questions.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like we can keep on digging into this idea of like theology.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: And that's like we me and Caleb, we call ourselves the redneck theologians.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, because only a couple of rednecks are gonna really sit around and talk about some of this stuff.
• 35:56
  Chris Jones: But it it's well, like I said, I think these are important conversations because they do open up the door to other conversations and it it keeps the spontaneity going.
• 36:06
  Chris Jones: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 36:07
  Chris Jones: So well, man, this has been a lot of fun.
• 36:10
  Chris Jones: And I gotta tell if for those people who don't know Raising the Wild Ones podcast, you've never listened to, I think you just got a little bit of a taste of it.
• 36:18
  Chris Jones: That's not all they talk about.
• 36:20
  Chris Jones: You know, that's just a rabbit hole I took us down.
• 36:22
  Chris Jones: They talk about a lot of good stuff over there, not just the different stuff that we got into tonight.
• 36:27
  Chris Jones: So thank you.
• 36:28
  Chris Jones: Dustin, thank you so much.
• 36:30
  Chris Jones: I appreciate it.
• 36:31
  Chris Jones: And uh, this was good stuff.
• 36:34
  Chris Jones: And uh I'll uh we'll see you soon.
• 36:37
  Chris Jones: Yeah, man, for sure.
• 36:38
  Chris Jones: All right, man.
• 36:39
  Chris Jones: Thank you.
• 36:40
  Chris Jones: Thank you.
• 36:42
  Chris Jones: Thanks for joining me here on Spiritual Hot Sauce.
• 36:45
  Chris Jones: I'd love to hear from you.
• 36:46
  Chris Jones: So please reach out with questions, comments, andor concerns.
• 36:50
  Chris Jones: And don't forget to like, subscribe, and review us.
• 36:54
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• 36:57
  Chris Jones: And if you enjoy the flavor of the sauce, then please share it with others.
• 37:02
  Chris Jones: I would appreciate that.
• 37:03
  Chris Jones: We'll see you next time.