Latest / Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU / Creating Direction and Opportunity: Jeffrey D Hartmann’s Vision for Student-Centered Education

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Creating Direction and Opportunity: Jeffrey D Hartmann’s Vision for Student-Centered Education · Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU

• 0:00
  Matt Giovanniello: Welcome to the Exceptional Educators podcast by Friendlytics edu, where innovation meets inclusion in education. I'm your cohost, Matt Giovanello, the CEO and co founder of Friendlytics. At Friendlytics, we put special education and English language learners front and center. Our award winning Friendlytics EDU platform helps streamline progress monitoring, improve communication and compliance, and offers truly personalized learning to your students of all abilities. Each episode of our podcast features candid conversations with district and school leaders, classroom changemakers, edtech founders, and industry executives, all dedicated to transforming learning for each student, especially our learners with unique abilities.
• 0:38
  With a focus on extraordinary educators and the exceptional students they serve, explore the latest in special education, accessible technology, and inclusive leadership. In this episode, Exceptional Educators is exceptionally thrilled to welcome Doctor. Jeff Hartman, the superintendent of Galleon City Schools in Ohio. With over two decades of educational leadership across Ohio and Pennsylvania, Jeff brings in a deep vision for student excellence rooted in community partnerships and data driven innovation. Jeff, thanks for joining us this morning.
• 1:07
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Hey, Matt. Thanks so much.
• 1:08
  Matt Giovanniello: So excited to have you. Excited to jump into this conversation. One of the first questions we ask all of our guests, Jeff, is what is your why? It's a question often asked in this world of education. What brought you here to this space?
• 1:20
  What's keeping you in the world of education today?
• 1:22
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Well, I think it's three main kind of components for me. It's how do we not give up on kids? How do we use data to guide our improvement? How do we work together in teams? And I've personally, throughout the course of my life, benefited from those three things.
• 1:35
  And so I really think kinda my entire professional motivation is how to pay that forward. It's it's worked for me. People have done that for different scenarios in my life. And how can I do that for others?
• 1:47
  Matt Giovanniello: That's awesome. I know you've been a longtime educator starting as a teacher and a principal and now serving as superintendent. So let's get into those early days. What were some of those early experiences like that still sit with you present day? And what are a couple of those pieces that have now influenced the way that you guide your current district and your leadership roles that you've taken on Times Pass?
• 2:05
  Jeffrey Hartmann: You know, the, in the early days, which seems like just yesterday, you know, so I started I I got my undergraduate degree from Slippery Rock University in Pennsylvania and ended up getting hired like most Pennsylvania teachers out of state. I ended up working in Maryland for two years. And that was really educational because it was a it was a complete cultural difference. You moved, so you were kinda self reliant. But it was really, you know, the first experience I had with meeting kids where they were.
• 2:31
  So I was a social studies teacher, so I was thrown into an AP World History, And and really, that was the first time that kids in that particular school had exposure to an AP course. So a lot of it was, just helping kids realize that they can do hard things. And so really meeting kids where they are was the first experience. And then I ended up moving back home outside of Pittsburgh, and I was there for a a period of time. And it was kinda the same thing, although it was a different technique.
• 2:59
  So then I started realizing you gotta differentiate your approach. I was kinda solid on the whole Maryland thing, but that technique didn't always work in the PA scenario. And so it was really interesting kind of transition. It was also the first exposure and experience to the power of good teachers and the power of good teaching. Because I'll tell you what, good teachers are worth their weight in gold.
• 3:20
  There's a really, really good book, never work harder than your students, Jackson, and I really took that to heart. It fits in with the authentic learning stuff that we'll talk about a little. Kids don't care how much history I know. You know? They wanna know how much are they gonna learn, how much are they going to, to apply the knowledge for their own reasons.
• 3:36
  So, yeah, I mean, all kinda, like, con congealed together into, my professional sense of of self.
• 3:43
  Matt Giovanniello: It sounds like you learned that lesson really importantly early on in your career, you still hold onto it so deeply present day. I think it gives a real purpose and an answer to that why question that students oftentimes feel is missing as they're going through a public school system. It's amazing to know that their superintendent from top down has that front and center and tries to instill that, whether it's through PD, whether it's through hiring, whether it's through messages directly from you to their families and to students themselves. This is why we're all banding together. This is what we're doing.
• 4:11
  This is why you're doing it. And beyond a trust me, when you reach the real world, you'll get it later on. It's like, let's get that answer to them now. I love that you're doing it from an early age for your students because you learned that way back in your early teaching career. I need to hear a little bit more about your Fulbright experience.
• 4:27
  I know that you're accepted to the prestigious Fulbright Leaders for Global Scholars Program, and Galleon Schools was singing your praises when they hired you for your participation to that back in the days. I'd love to hear a little bit more about what that was like for you and what your experience internationally in The UK may maybe how that influenced your principles, your teaching decisions, your leadership decisions, now that you're bringing those principles back to Ohio and thinking about what we need here in The States.
• 4:53
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Yeah. Kind of impressed that you even found that. Yeah. The the Fulbright thing was was fascinating, but I I have a pretty significant background in the international space as well. In one of my high schools, we traveled to to China and set up, two sister schools, one in Shanghai, one in Fuzhou.
• 5:10
  You know, that was a fascinating experience. I traveled to Rwanda, to Kangali, to a a conference there to learn about it was a peace conference supported by Kent State University of Rwanda, and then the Fulbright experience when I came here. And, you know, the thing that always sticks with me is, you know, for as different as those spaces are, how the similar how similar are. I'll never forget being in a school in China. I think it was in Beijing.
• 5:36
  And there's just this little kid, big backpack, little body, you know, just kinda what we see here in kindergartners, and he's just wandering around the hallways. You know? He just doesn't know where to go. He's just confused. It was adorable because the cultures are different.
• 5:49
  The languages are different, but we still have kids that need help. We still have kids that are confused. Kids that need a sense of hope and a sense of direction regardless of their circumstances. You know? Yeah.
• 6:00
  The techniques change. You know, the the approaches change, the cultural and historical contexts change, but it just always strikes me of just how similar things are. I would probably say The UK had perhaps the most evolved sense of pedagogy teaching and learning structures in that they were not so you know, they have their GCSEs and the a levels and that kind of thing, but they were not so test heavy. And their assessment of how schools are performing was very much a, let's get a team together and let's go see these schools. Let's do a site visit.
• 6:33
  They had that on a rotating basis, you know, between three and five years. Different inspectorates that were set up to do that. Very much kind of a peer review process of here's the rubric. We're gonna come in and see if you're doing these things at at different levels. And it's a very different approach than what we have here in The States where it's such a test heavy, you know, are you making the mark?
• 6:51
  Are you not? And what we do in schools is so qualitative. How do you gauge the relationship between a teacher and a student? You have to see that in action. You can't put a test metric around that.
• 7:02
  You know, can you do different surveys and whatnot? Sure. But even that doesn't really peel back the layers of, you know, this is a teacher that believes in me, that I'll run through the walls for because we had such a really great relationship that's developed. Or the kid that comes back five years later or ten years later, or I remember that teacher because. The UK seems to have that structure.
• 7:24
  They also have a very different administrative realm where a lot of administrators with the exception of b principal are also teachers. So they have a foot in that world, but then a foot in the leadership world as well. And that creates just a lot of camaraderie and kind of empathy. Because sometimes I think as as administrators, depending on how long you've been in, sometimes we lose the idea of what it's like to be in the classroom.
• 7:46
  Matt Giovanniello: Despite your best efforts of wanting to remain close, it's just it's an unfortunate function of the duties of an administrator here.
• 7:52
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There's a so I'm gonna go and cover a class or one of our preschool classrooms because, the teacher won a prize. And, you know, she said, I'm not I don't think I'm gonna leave. I just wanna watch you interact with my preschoolers for an hour, you know, which
• 8:06
  Matt Giovanniello: That is adorable. You're gonna have the best time there. I wish I could bring this camera and follow you into that preschool class. That would be adorable. Living in on preschool classes is one of the cutest things I've had opportunities to do across the districts we work with.
• 8:18
  So cute. Yeah. Okay. I have a lot of questions for you, Jeff, on this Fulbright experience and the outcomes that came out of it. One of the pieces you brought up just now is the philosophy of administration and how schools are built and function and look and feel like in The UK are markedly different than here in The US.
• 8:35
  I know there are benefits and drawbacks to each of these different styles. Based on your professional experience and opinion, what do you think some of those benefits of the way The UK does things in education are compared to what we do here? And what do you think as you return to The States, we still do better?
• 8:49
  Jeffrey Hartmann: I think one of the benefits just in their day to day, the way they have their days daily schedule set up, just allows for more flexibility for kids, for teachers, for administrators, and also allows for a lot more democracy. The part that I kinda rolled into some of these schools, and I was just like, they have, like, five assistant principals for a school of 500 kids. Like, that's kinda crazy. Well, the reason for that is because each assistant principal has a focal point. You know, maybe it's student services.
• 9:14
  Maybe it's special ed, or they call that send. Or maybe it's academics, or maybe it's student discipline. You know, they have they have different focal points, but that's only part of their day. The rest of their day, they're doing classroom stuff they're teaching. You know?
• 9:26
  So so it allows for kinda more share the wealth kinda scenarios, which from a morale perspective in today's age, having teachers feel like they're part of the team, that they're part of the solution, and they have a seat at the table. I mean, those sort of things are huge. We have a a team here in my district called the leads team, leading educators and developing students. And that's it's connected teachers that we all sit together, and we go through continuous improvement processes that are focused solely on the space between student and teacher. So, you know, we use the instructional core component from Harvard, and we look at the elements within the core, and how do we improve the interaction between the teacher, the student, and the content.
• 10:06
  And that's all that that team focuses on. And the teachers are so appreciative that they even have a seat at the table to have that conversation. So I noticed that in terms of, you know, what is it that we do well, structurally, we've had pretty significant focus on trying to make sure that every kid has access to high quality education. The UK system is pretty fragmented between they're different between, you know, Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland. They all have kind of the same ish structure, but here in this country, you know, always interesting whenever I read the Phi Delta Kappa national statistics about how schools are doing, and it's always, you know, schools nationally need to improve, but my school's great.
• 10:47
  I'm like, wait a second. That doesn't that doesn't make sense. You know? I I just go, alright. Whatever.
• 10:51
  But when you go and talk to parents, even our parents, you know, for the most part, people are happy with with what's happening in their child's school. And so I think just kind of the the unfinished project as it were in this country is is really kinda something I I noticed, but, you know, differences between the two.
• 11:07
  Matt Giovanniello: It's really interesting. I think as you make your return back to The US as a part of this timeline that we're now going through, you've served in administrative roles across a lot of districts. As you reflect, can you think of a particular district? Like I know you're in Pottstown in Pennsylvania. You were in a couple of districts in Ohio before Galleon.
• 11:21
  Were there any districts in particular where you channeled those principles of your time, either through Fulbright or in your teaching positions prior where like this district needed more help or this district was more ripe for reform? Is Galleon a kind of district where you had a lot of change in your two and a half years as superintendent. Where did you kind of pour the most amount of those resources? If you had to pick one into any of those districts where you've been?
• 11:43
  Jeffrey Hartmann: That's a hard one, Matt, because and anybody who's gonna watch this and knows me probably is just kinda, like, either smiling or laughing at this point because it's it doesn't it seems like wherever I go, I just end up going into those districts where it it's like, we do this, but how do we do it better? And I just happen to be naturally built that way. So, you know, I'm all in whenever I come into a system. Stowe, I was there for eight years. We we did a lot of really, really good things, especially around the collaborative PD space for teachers.
• 12:11
  How do you work together in teams? How do you end up doing the data component? You know, all of that kind of stuff. So, you know, that was enjoyable. And then certainly my work here in Galleon has been really just it's been enjoyable.
• 12:23
  It's been motivating. Being in a superintendent role and having kind of the keys of the kingdom, so to speak, being able to to make recommendations to our board to say, hey. We need to do this because it's gonna be good for kids. And then helping remind everybody the kid facing aspect of this. You know?
• 12:37
  Why should we do this versus this? And it's very much a question of adult needs versus kid needs. And then is it best for adults, or is it best for kids? And sometimes what's best for kids is a little bit harder for adults. You know?
• 12:49
  And what's best for adults is maybe not the best thing for kids because of whatever. Yep. But just being that kinda that person to continually hold up the mirror, I guess, and say, is this the type of place and people we wanna be? Right now, we're going through a process at our distant galleon about, mission, vision, values, belief statements, roles, and we call it the directional system. We're working with a consulting group to help us articulate all of that so that I can give a single sheet of paper to staff and say, all the stuff on this list, you do what you gotta do.
• 13:19
  This is the boundary in which to do it. Don't gotta ask me questions. Don't gotta get permission. Here it is.
• 13:26
  Matt Giovanniello: That's awesome. What a what a wonderful goal actively be pursuing right now. Running a 1,700 student and 300 staff district, that's no small feat to be like, here's your single sheet of paper and marching orders, anything within the general boundaries of this is your license to go ahead and make our district a better place by helping us achieve these specific objectives. That's really cool. Like, this is this is no small feat to be to be leading the change kind of in a very active state at a district like Galleon.
• 13:52
  You know, reputation jokes aside, I think it's a a really good one to have that you're coming in and you're like, okay, I'm ready to impact some change. I'm not ready to sit here and continue with the status quo. There's always an opportunity for us to do better, no matter how good we are, because the reality is there's always room for improvement. And even if we think we're the best, maybe our numbers say otherwise, or our parents say otherwise, or our student outcomes say otherwise, or our staff says otherwise, whatever that otherwise might be. So I'm glad that you're not just ready to sign up and continue to do the usual of your predecessor, whatever position you might have been in the past or whatever district you might find yourself.
• 14:26
  Jeffrey Hartmann: One of the things there, Matt, just to to follow on, is it's taken two years for us to kinda revamp our why as a district, as a whole, and so we finally settled on at the end of last year, we we did all of our marketing, is our tagline at Galleon City Schools is courage to climb. We give kids courage to climb because believe it or not, tigers do climb and I'd challenge listeners to go and Google that and find out why, but tigers climb, and so how do we give our teachers and our students and our community really the courage to climb? Because, you know, we have a high poverty rate here. We need to give our kids hope. We need to give our community hope, and so what is that common refrain?
• 15:04
  So when teachers came back this year, courage to climb was everywhere. I mean, it's above doors. It's on walls. It's it's all over the place. And that's the common refrain is you wanna go on a field trip?
• 15:14
  You want a PD? You want curriculum? You want this thing? How's it gonna give our kids courage to climb? That's the common question.
• 15:22
  Matt Giovanniello: That's such a cool tagline. I'm really glad you brought that up. It's interesting because you have a high poverty rate, you have a fixed enrollment by diversity, and yet you have really high graduation rates. And so the supports that you have at your district, just to go through some of those, have about a 94% high school graduation rate across, you know, a plethora of student needs. Maybe let's get into that a little bit.
• 15:43
  We'll change gears. Tell us a little bit about some of the frameworks, the supports that you have in place. You've talked about increasing staff capacity since you started your superintendency tenure. That's one piece of this puzzle, right? What other supports do you have in place to meet the growing and diverse needs of your students?
• 15:59
  And of course, you're on a podcast about special education and English language learners. So we can think about it in that context as well. How are you meeting the increasingly diverse needs of your students nowadays at Galleon?
• 16:09
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Well, I think, you know, one of the things is you mentioned the staff capacity component, but I think it goes hand in hand, you know, if we, if we look at it just from the special ed lens how do we make sure that we're providing the support we need to our students? And, unfortunately, the special ed kind of world is so litigious. You know? You can't talk about special ed without quickly making a connection to some attorney somewhere. So we just kind of embrace that, and we're just like, listen.
• 16:33
  Let's bring in legal counsel. Let's sit and have a conversation about IEPs, how to write goals, what are appropriate levels of SDI and and least restrictive environment type of conversations. A legal perspective, we're we're safe, but we're also able to square that with the need of the kid so that we're doing right by the kid, but we're also doing right by the district and the taxpayers and the money that that we're provided. You know? So that's one aspect of it.
• 17:00
  You know? Every, we have IEP writing days, and we provide our, special ed teachers. I get two of them every year, to just sit and have a conversation in small groups about let's talk about IEPs, let's talk about goals, how do we make things better, have an internal monitoring team where it's very much anonymized IEPs, and we sit, we'd look at them and say, okay. How could we make this goal better? How could we better support this document or this student?
• 17:25
  And that's all led by it's led by an administrator, but it's all teacher driven. You know? And that's in the special ed world. You mentioned graduation rates and and the high poverty rate. There's a lot of complexity in the poverty space.
• 17:38
  There's a lot of trauma. There's a lot of generational poverty, a lot of the working poor. And so, you know, what is it that we need to do to help kids be ready to do school? Well, we need mental health services. We need counseling services.
• 17:50
  We need community partnerships. So we have a family engagement coordinator who goes out and knocks on doors and she has no problem doing that. She came from the juvenile justice world and is kinda fearless and knows the the social services to hook families up with, whenever there's a challenge in that way. We have social workers and school counselors now that if kids can't get counseling on the outside, we can provide that support, you know, on the inside because we're not immune to the fact that, you know, maybe something went on last night at the house and the kid's not ready to do school. Okay.
• 18:21
  Well, we need to the kid needs support to do school. They're not gonna care about math if they just saw, their aunt or their uncle get arrested last night. So how do they process through all of those conversations? And then just a consistent conversation of just the kid facing aspect of it. Like, what is it that the kid wants to do?
• 18:39
  How do we we have a career coach that, because at the secondary level it turns into, why do I have to do this? School is dumb. You know, that kind of stuff. So then adding the authenticity, the relevancy to it of, hey, you you wanna go do this thing? Let's hook you up with a business or an organization in town or in the region, and you can go see what it takes to go and be a veterinarian or go and be a welder or a plumber or, you know, to a fighter pilot.
• 19:03
  You know what I mean? There's we have a ton of connections in our community and just leveraging all of those so that we can meet the need of the kid. So I think it's just kind of a continuum of services to offer, and when you have high rates of poverty, those services become more encompassing, but you never really lose the focus on the kid facing aspect of it.
• 19:21
  Matt Giovanniello: I think it's extremely important in the wake or in consideration of the very varied backgrounds that your students have, including those coming from high poverty backgrounds, including those coming from first generation student backgrounds, those coming into a special education track at your district that those experiences and those opportunities are there. So it's amazing to hear that the district not only is aware of them, but you're continuing to invest in them. Some of the themes that I heard you mentioned, Jeff, just to kind of put a fine point on them, I think you're coming from an aspect and a position of trust and building that trust to make sure that everybody feels supported throughout this whole journey. I think you're also shifting the mindset from one that's a little bit more reactive to one that's proactive. You know, just going back to your examples of IEP writing days, making sure that as a team, have capacity to review IEPs in that anonymized fashion to make sure that, Hey, we are putting together goals that are individualized, that they're measurable, ones that we can act on so that, you know, in a world where things might be litigious in that special ed space, how do we get ahead of it?
• 20:22
  How do we better service the needs of our students? Because at the end of the day, everybody wants to, but how do we do that from a more proactive basis and make sure that our staff are as supportive as they can so that, you know, the bulk of their time is not being poured into a lawsuit or something similar to that. So just kudos for some of those examples. I'm really glad you're bringing them up. I think it's also a really good segue into authentic learning.
• 20:43
  I know that's a really big piece that you're proud of. So first off, give us a definition of what authentic learning looks like at Galleon and what your big push over these past couple of years has been like to better meet the needs of your students and give them these real world experiences that we just know they're craving that maybe historically, they would not have access to or they haven't in times past?
• 21:03
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Yeah. Sure. So the the definition of authentic learning that we have in our district is what is the meaning or the relevancy for whatever the task is beyond the academic? So we know we gotta do x y z because we have state standards and whatnot, but what else is there? There has to be something else for why we're learning the Pythagorean theorem.
• 21:23
  There has to be something else for why we're learning to conjugate verbs in Spanish. You know, there has to be another level to that. You know, different examples of that. Our PR person today is going to do some some pictures in, in Spanish or in our Spanish classroom because they're collaborating with other classrooms throughout the district. Because sometimes, you know, if you're struggling with the with that, you know, what is the purpose beyond the academic?
• 21:49
  Maybe sometimes the purpose is revealed whenever you end up going and teaching it to other people. So we just had our football team go to the elementary school and read, read to some of our elementary kids. We have fifth grade classes going to help kids learn to spell the primary school building, that K 12 Building. We'd have, and I'm pointing over there. You can't see it.
• 22:08
  It's our high school. You know, the wood shop just created free libraries for us to put all over the build all over the camp the community, and we just fill those with books. We ended up getting book vending machines recently, which literally is a vending machine that has books in it. Kids get a a token or a coin for kind of the PDIS thing for the Kotu and Good, and they can go and buy a book of their own. You know?
• 22:31
  So there's just a a variety of things that we're kind of pivoting to because we realize that education is the great equalizer. Education truly is a panacea. It can cut through and disrupt the cycles of poverty. And we are very much engaged in a cycle of poverty here, so how do we we give our kids a leg up? And so how do we give them that courage to climb?
• 22:53
  And these are these are the opportunities to do that.
• 22:55
  Matt Giovanniello: I'm really glad you made that reference and quoted how education is that panacea. It's the single greatest way to uplift a generation historically, such as yours that have been in this cycle that you can't seem to break it. That's 100% true. Think that adopting and getting belief in that mindset is also a big barrier and some communities face headwinds and understanding and believing that to be true. And it sounds like you made great progress and offer countless ways for those generations that feel that way, those families that feel that way to realize like, Hey, this is our path forward.
• 23:28
  This is how we could break through this systemic problem. I know also you gave a couple examples through authentic learning of exposing students to experiences that they would never ever, ever otherwise have access to. I think your civil air patrol program is one of them. You briefly alluded to that. Expand a little bit more about what that ROTC like program might look like for students who would never even know that out there in the real world.
• 23:50
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Yes. Civil air patrol is generally the unofficial moniker is America's best kept secret. Listeners can go and Google Civil Air Patrol. Go civilairpatrol.com or cap.gov. It's the Air Force Auxiliary.
• 24:01
  They have a cadet program. They've been around since the forties. 12/01/1941 is when they were officially chartered, ironically. And I was part of Civil Liberal. I still am.
• 24:12
  And so that was a tremendous impact for me, growing up, and they happen to have a a program where they can do it during school. Typically, it's a it's a two hour in the evening, once a week type of meeting, but we decided to to leverage the school program. And the difference between the ROTC component and the the CAP component is CAP can start at sixth grade, so six through twelve versus nine through twelve. Yes. The district has to pay for the instructors and a lot of the material support, but I was able to get it up and running sooner.
• 24:42
  Quite literally, the the the DOD, wait list for an ROTC program is anywhere from, you know, five to seven years long. And our kids need support now. Yep. You know, and why CAP and well, first, there's a STEM component to that, so there's a strong aviation, obviously, component to it. But there's citizenship, teamwork, communication, character development.
• 25:03
  There's a lot of other pieces to it. They're a military focus. Yes. But it's more about just being a good human and how do you make the right choices? Do you even know what right choices are?
• 25:14
  And so when I mentioned earlier about that space between having kids ready for school, this is one of those tools that allows kids to be ready for that. We have so much interest that we ended up having to hire another instructor. So we don't we don't just have one but two. And then I just had the middle school principal talk to me a couple of weeks ago and ask if we could hire a third because her middle school kids, just they keep clamoring to join the program and we just don't have the capacity at this point.
• 25:39
  Matt Giovanniello: What a good problem to have. That's awesome.
• 25:41
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Absolutely, absolutely. But you know, what is it, the stuff that they do? You know, there's your typical ROTC ish types of experiences but in June, June '25, we ended up taking about 20 kids to Wright Patterson for a week long experience with 500 other kids from across the country And I was there. One of our teachers went down as well. I mean, we had we had our kids flying an airplane.
• 26:04
  Like, they they went up with the certified instructors as part of the civil air patrol experience. They go up in Cessna 182, and they they get off the ground. And, you know, I have a I have a great picture of one of our kids, you know, just at the controls and just smiling. I mean, just ear to ear smile. You know?
• 26:23
  And then I I I, talked with him later, and and you could just see us walking on Cloud9. It was just such a cool experience, but this idea that we, you know, giving our kids courage to climb, they can do hard things, that was a really, really, like, hard week for, I mean, all of them. First time away from home, first time that they were gonna be traveling anywhere, and every one of them wants to go back.
• 26:46
  Matt Giovanniello: That is huge. Right.
• 26:48
  Jeffrey Hartmann: You know? So we're onto something, but, you know, the culture in our high school has completely changed in large part because last year's eighth graders are this year's ninth graders, and we had a significant group of eighth graders part of this program. So, you know, we have great instructors. Kids are really engaged. Our parents are seeing changes at home.
• 27:05
  I just had a bus driver's explain talk to me about the differences they see in the kids that that they've grown up with because I think bus drivers are one of those unsung heroes that see kids throughout their development experience. Right? From kindergarten all the way to senior, and they're they're telling me I'm seeing a difference in the kids that are part of this program. So just another way of bringing relevance into the school environment.
• 27:28
  Matt Giovanniello: Jeff, you must have had an inkling about the impact that this program could have on your students, but did you foresee the significance of this impact? Like, were you anticipating this to be as incredibly impactful and successful as it ended up being, or was this a surprise to you also?
• 27:43
  Jeffrey Hartmann: It wasn't a surprise for me because just being here for a period of time, it was very clear to me that we had a group of kids. And, really, middle school is is kind of the the sweet spot in a way is where kids are just starting to discover who they are. They try on different personalities. They they do different things. God bless our middle school staff and middle school staff everywhere because it takes a very unique human being to do that.
• 28:06
  We have great middle school administrators. So even more kudos to them to lead a building, you know, in that space. But it was very clear to me that that kids were they needed something. We were losing enrollment. Kids are are are just kinda they're voting with their feet.
• 28:20
  They're going in different places, and we needed to they're doing that because they're they're leaving us. They're escaping to somewhere else, which tells me that there's, you know, there's a relevancy component there. So what is it that we need to do? Oh, by the way, we're dealing with generational poverty. We're dealing with generational trauma.
• 28:36
  There doesn't seem to be a career focus at a high level for opportunities, and we don't have any systemic way of helping kids realize that they can do hard things. It's one thing to say it. It's another thing to experience, which is exactly what that week long experience did. You know? So now I have 20 kids that are going and telling their friends who are also in the program, you guys gotta go do this next summer because it changed your life.
• 28:58
  And I don't mean that in a bombastic kinda over the top way. Literally, the kids are telling me that.
• 29:03
  Matt Giovanniello: I believe it wholeheartedly. And it's just like it's emanating off of you. I think these students who maybe never got pushed to that higher level are now more resilient, more aware of the world around them, and stronger as a result. And it's amazing to hear that not only it impacted them so well, or so significantly, but also like the school staff that are with these kids every single day, especially as they transition buildings. And the fact that it's spreading to other students who could really benefit from this experience, they're now naturally telling them to go partake in it too.
• 29:31
  So like the evolution of it is really, really cool. And I can't wait to continue to follow it as it as it continues to grow, especially in this pivotal middle school year, trying to figure out, you know, who they are, you know, grow into themselves in this middle school age, as you mentioned. And I think this is a really great structured, impactful way for them to do exactly that. Love it. Love it.
• 29:50
  All right. I have one more set of questions for you. Then we're going wrap up for today's Let's switch gears a little bit, Jeff, and talk a little bit about this whole child approach that you have at Galleon, thinking about data that you collect of your students. You mentioned that at the beginning of today's discussion. We are a very test driven country, and Ohio is no exception to that.
• 30:08
  Tell us a little bit about how MTSS is embedded across your schools at Galleon, how data is considered. Is there any sort of special structures you have in place that you're particularly proud of for supporting your learners with diverse needs? What does that look like at your district?
• 30:23
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Yeah. You know, that's one of the things that was really well articulated even before I got here. The district has spent a fair amount of time creating those structures and and, kind of refining them. So we have a kid talk process, which is kind of the the tool for kid identification before we get into the special ed space. So sort of that type of role.
• 30:44
  And, you know, it's funny because you talk about MTSS, but then every district, every school puts a different label on it. So you have to go, wait a second. Is that MTSS? Is that
• 30:52
  Matt Giovanniello: so Right. Is it RDI? Is it our own version? And then as a executive, the state of Ohio beginning this upcoming school year is rolling out iMTSS. So everything's got a little bit different flavor to it.
• 31:03
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Right. Right. So then just how do you make that your own, you know, at the local level? So, anyway, we have our kid talk process. We have data analysis days where we end up taking the data that our kids are generating.
• 31:13
  And we certainly have conversations about what does that what does this look like? How do we group kids differently? And we have two instructional coaches that help with that process. Our our principals are instructional leaders, so they are embedded in that process and sitting down having those conversations as well. And then we have a a director of learning improvement, and so she's kinda, like, overseeing all of those systems and structures to make sure that we continue to have that kid facing conversation.
• 31:38
  You know? And and it's really interesting, and the educators that are listening, you know, you have those conversations of, should we group kids this way? Well, yes. Because it's gonna be easy for me as the teacher to do x. But then we could group the kids this way.
• 31:51
  It's gonna be a little bit harder for me, the teacher, to do x, but it's gonna be better and more coherent for the kid from their perspective. Know? So every day, it's it's that conversation of, you know, what's best for adults versus what's best for kids, and how do we make sure that we're servicing the kid in the best way possible. You know? So that whole child approach, it's easy to forget it because the systems and the structures, the default setting of schools, if you will, is not set for the kid facing aspect of it.
• 32:19
  You know? And one of the reasons, Matt, that we ended up going into the directional system values conversation is because this district, previous district, every district I've been in, what's best for kids? And if I ask you that question, your answer is gonna be different than my answer versus every other person who's listening to this podcast. Their answers are all gonna be different. And at Galleon City Schools, we need a common definition of what is best for kids because without that, it's gonna default to our own experiences as as learners, our own experiences early on in our careers.
• 32:51
  But we need a common definition because we need to to kinda row in the same direction. We don't have you know, we're not replete with resources. We need to use those responsibly. You know, we need whether that's time, whether that's money, whatever it is, But if we continue to fight each other because we don't have a simple common definition of what's best for kids, well, what are we doing?
• 33:11
  Matt Giovanniello: I think I think both things can be true, Jeff, as you're getting at. You know, the discourse on the definition and the differences of opinions are important. But if there's no consistent answer to serve as guiding principles, then everybody's going to take that different directions. And at best, it's inefficient at worst, everybody's working against each other. And the irony is while you're trying to benefit students the best and serve them in the best way, we're actually falling way short of that promise because everybody is, you know, kind of heeding to their own their own principles and, you know, kind of counteracting each other's efforts.
• 33:43
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Yeah. So and, you know, at the end of the day, mom and dad are sending us their kids. They're not keeping some kids at home. You know? They're sending all their kids to us.
• 33:51
  And so they're, you know, their pride and joy, and that's we have to acknowledge that. We have to accept that and meet the kids where they are, but then also realize that the kid that is coming from this home over here may be have means versus the kid over here may not have means. And if you will ascribe different meanings of what's best for each one of those kids, because maybe this kid needs tough love and this kid needs a break. Well, do they? Maybe they don't.
• 34:17
  Maybe they maybe, you know, let's have that conversation. You know, let's come to an agreement on what is it that all of our kids need. And you know, sometimes teachers just need permission. This year and last year, I literally gave our teachers permission slips. You have a permission slip.
• 34:32
  Here it is. It's signed by me. It says right there, you have permission to do something different and new.
• 34:37
  Matt Giovanniello: Love
• 34:37
  Jeffrey Hartmann: it. And the number of the number of teachers that at the end of the year, said, did you guys actually use that? Some of them raised their hand and said, yeah, but many others had it, like, tacked up on their board above their desk just as the reminder that they had permission to do something different in service of kids.
• 34:52
  Matt Giovanniello: It's the physical reminder that somebody could see on a daily basis that might just be enough to push them over the edge. And so whether it feels gimmicky for somebody to not actually redeem, and hang it up on their board above their computer, if they feel that like, I'm actually going to carry through on this and execute, who cares what method they use of actually employing it? The fact that they're doing it is what matters.
• 35:12
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Yeah. I mean, I'd have yet to meet a teacher that has gotten into the field because they dislike kids. You know, everybody gets into this field because they wanna do right by kids. They wanna pay it forward. They're in the helping kinda mindset or or whatever.
• 35:27
  You know? And teachers are amazing human beings. They're dealers in hope. They they help kids do hard things. All courage the whole thing.
• 35:34
  Right? How do we as leaders, in some cases, get out of the way, in other cases, give them the marching orders so that they know what our our intentions are and they know what right is? And that's where I think systemically, that's where where the we all fall down. We get so hung up on mandates and whatever political nonsense is out there when really kids only care about what's happening. Is the teacher gonna like me, and am I gonna have opportunities to shine?
• 36:03
  Those are the two things that are in kids' minds.
• 36:05
  Matt Giovanniello: Right. And understandably so. In the simple minds of kids, those are the priorities, and that's what they should be. It shouldn't be getting distracted by these other pieces that staff and administrators and all of us in this broader education world are getting caught up in. Got to get back to those basics.
• 36:19
  I'm glad you're reminding us of that. Think it's really important. Jeff, today's episode just flew. We are at the end of our time here. And so I wanted to pose one more question for you.
• 36:28
  A good segue to what we were just discussing of what really matters in the minds of educators, and more importantly, the minds of students. And so our final question, what does being an exceptional educator or being an exceptional leader mean to you?
• 36:40
  Jeffrey Hartmann: It means never giving up on kids or staff. And and I and I mentioned that because, you know, everybody's like, oh, sure. Kids. You know? But, you know, sometimes we have really, really good educators that are just they've been burned in the past, and they're terrified to try something new.
• 36:56
  Maybe they're just risk averse, and and they just, you know, they're in a routine and they're familiar with that and and the thought of doing something different. But, you know, every district early on, you mentioned about, you know, changes and coming into districts. I'm a change agent. I've kind of made peace with that a long time ago. And I realized that when you activate the change process, it really mimics the grief process.
• 37:17
  And, you know, I have to acknowledge that and be very aware of that. And the hardest time some people have with change are the ones that are just they've just been so kinda burned in the past, but the people that make the biggest difference for those educators is not me. It's the person next to them that leans over and says, hey. I think you should give that a shot. I'm not giving up on you.
• 37:40
  You're a good person. You're gonna do right by kids. Give it a shot. You know, I see you kinda thing. So we know not to do that for kids.
• 37:49
  We don't give up on kids, but I think sometimes we forget about not giving up on staff and colleagues as well.
• 37:54
  Matt Giovanniello: I think that's really important for everybody to keep top of mind. I'm glad that you do. I think your staff are eternally fortunate that you do. Your administrators, your parents, and of course, most importantly, your students are really grateful for that as well. The fact that you're a change agent, we need more of you in this world, especially in this space of education.
• 38:10
  Thank you for your commitment to the districts that you serve throughout your tenure in education, all the way from teacher to now superintendent at Galleon. Thank you for just spending some time with us this morning, sharing your thoughts, sharing your leadership perspectives. I certainly learned a lot through this conversation today, and I know our listeners will do as well. Jeff, you are exceptional. You need to be reminded of that.
• 38:30
  I think you're far too humble. You are just so authentic, and there's a ton that we can learn and strive to achieve and apply into the schools that we all support and work in from today's conversation. So thanks for just sharing some of your thoughts. Was really great to be a part of this discussion with you.
• 38:44
  Jeffrey Hartmann: Absolutely. Thank you, Matt.
• 38:47
  Matt Giovanniello: Absolutely. Was such a pleasure having you on this morning. To all of us listening to today's episode of the Exceptional Educators Podcast, thank you for joining us. I look forward to seeing you at the next one.