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Biden Takes Action on the Border · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I am Adisu Demesic.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Dan was supposed to be hosting today. And he was
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: going to get to see Adisu in person up in
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the Bay Area. But unfortunately, Dan is feeling under the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: weather today, Adisu. So I'm stepping in. Apologies in advance
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: to Pfeiffer Nation.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I even repped the Golden State Valkyries. I was trying
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: to really lean into the Bay Area takeover of Crooked.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: But alas, stomach bug.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I went to a Warriors game with Dan once. It
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: was very fun. But it was an old arena.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Go Warriors. I guess go Celtics if I have to.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: If I'm in mixed company here, I got to do it.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you are. You are. We have a great show, though.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: On today's show, we're talking about Donald Trump, who celebrated
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: his New York hush money case verdict by going to
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: a UFC fight. He joined TikTok and he raised a
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: ton of money. We'll get into all of that. And
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: then I talked with Michael Tyler, the Biden campaign communications director,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: about the evolution of the Biden campaign's messaging on Trump's
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: legal challenges.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: My guy.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: How to reach voters.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: You know that guy? Love me some Michael Tyler, man.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: One of my best friends. A great dude.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Brilliant guy, too. One of Adidas' close buddies and colleague
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: from the Booker days, among other campaigns, right? Indeed.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: So I pressed him on, you know, how they figure
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: out how to talk about these legal challenges that Trump
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: is facing, how to reach voters who are getting their
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: information from non-traditional news sources, and then a little bit
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: on how you're preparing President Biden for a debate against
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump that is supposed to happen at VESU in
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: 22 days.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Let's see if it does.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: I hope it does, but I think I never know, man.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I want it to happen. It'll be good to have
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it happen.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: We'll see.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I'd put nothing past the former president of the United States,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: especially given his, let's say.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Current problems. Yeah, he's got some issues. And then we
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: talked a little bit about progressive blowback to Biden's immigration
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: executive order. But first, let's talk about that. So yesterday,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: President Biden signed an executive order that prevents migrants from
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: seeking asylum at the U.S.-Mexico border when crossing surge to
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: above 2,500 a day. Here's a clip from President Biden's
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: remarks announcing the EO.
• 2:21
  Speaker 5: I've come here today to do what the Republicans in
• 2:23
  Speaker 5: Congress refuse to do, take the necessary steps to secure
• 2:27
  Speaker 5: our border. We came to a clear... clear bipartisan deal.
• 2:32
  Speaker 5: It was the strongest border security agreement in decades. But
• 2:37
  Speaker 5: then Republicans in Congress, not all, but walked away from it.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 2:43
  Speaker 5: Because Donald Trump told them to. So today, I'm moving
• 2:47
  Speaker 5: past Republican obstruction and using the executive authorities available to
• 2:50
  Speaker 5: me as president. Frankly, I would have preferred to address
• 2:54
  Speaker 5: this issue through a bipartisan legislation Because that's the only
• 2:58
  Speaker 5: way to actually get the kind of system we have
• 3:01
  Speaker 5: now that's broken, fixed, to hire more border patrol agents,
• 3:04
  Speaker 5: more asylum officers, more judges. But Republicans have left me
• 3:08
  Speaker 5: with no choice. So I will never demonize immigrants. I'll
• 3:12
  Speaker 5: never refer to immigrants as poisoning the blood of a country.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: And further, I'll never separate children from their families at
• 3:19
  Speaker 5: the border.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So President Biden, clearly pretty frustrated there that Trump forced
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Republicans in Congress to walk away from bipartisan legislation that
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: would have done a lot more to address the challenges
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: at the border. Biden's executive order would be the most
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: aggressive immigration enforcement action taken by a modern Democrat. Many
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: moderate Democrats praised the bill. It was criticized by a
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: lot of progressives. So listeners should just know to like
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: set the table on this, that the fate of this
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: executive order is uncertain, if not shaky. It is not
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: clear how the administration would be able to implement this
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: EO without additional funding, without additional resources, and those resources
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: are allocated by Congress. It is also going to face
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: immediate legal challenges and very well may not survive those
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: challenges as a lot of Donald Trump's immigration efforts didn't.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: So really, this may amount to essentially a messaging effort
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: by the Biden administration to show voters that he is
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: concerned about immigration and and that he's willing to shift
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: his own policy views to address those concerns that he's
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: hearing from voters. So Adisu, let's start with the political
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: environment in which President Biden took this action. Earlier this year,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: we saw concern about immigration skyrocket in a lot of polling.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: How much does border security and immigration generally matter to
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: persuadable voters?
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: It matters a lot, point blank, period. I think I
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: wouldn't rank it as high as cost of living issues,
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: economic issues, abortion rights, probably, but it is in a
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: top tier. And that's true in the Democratic base, in
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: the Republican base, and with swing voters, obviously, for different
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: reasons and in different ways. But, you know, I think
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: most voters across the political spectrum support the basic outline
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: of what the president put forward earlier this year. He
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: actually proposed on his first day in office, which is
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: comprehensive immigration reform. That includes tough border security, you know,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: securing the border first and foremost, and then pathways to citizenship,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: pathways for folks who are already here, solving the problem
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: of dreamers, et cetera. That's a plan that, as the
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: president just said, Republicans killed in Congress. And he, you're right, frustrated.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: I didn't realize until you just said it that that
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: was frustration, you know, in the president's voice, because he's
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: pissed off basically that he tried to solve this the
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: right way, the way that he over years of experience
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: was taught to do these things. And because of Donald
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Trump and politics, Republicans killed it. So, Anyway, bottom line
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: is it is an issue. It is a real issue.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: And I think putting aside for a moment, whether you
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: agree with the specifics of the policy, I think there's
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: a clear political imperative here, right? It has been the
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Democratic Party position for as long as I've been in
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: politics that securing the border is part of the broader
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: immigration reform strategy, but it's a part.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: It's not the whole thing.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And President Biden is trying to solve this as best
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: he can, potentially piecemeal here because he doesn't have a
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: partner in Congress to do so. But You know, I've
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: said before on this podcast, I think on this podcast
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: with you the first time I was on earlier this year,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: I don't think this is a change election. I think
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: this is a stability election. And I think the situation
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: at the border, whether we like it or not, the
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: perception of it is that it is unstable.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: There is disorder.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: And thus, what President Biden, I think, politically is trying
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: to do here is, to your point, send the message.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: He's going to do something to get control of the situation.
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: It is not the be all and end all of
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: its policy. It is a piece of the policy, but
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: I do think it's a prerequisite for most swing voters
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: out there, border security, and then we can talk about
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: the rest. And that's true of, again, I don't think
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: that's just true of your sort of white Republicans. I
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: think that's true of moderate Democrats, swing Latinos, you name it.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, remember that President Trump did really well in border
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: communities in the 2016 and 2020 election. I mean, I
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: just think on the policy, I think the status quo
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: is not working for anyone. I think the big picture,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I want everyone who asks for an asylum screening to
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: get one. But at the moment, there are not enough
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: asylum officers to conduct the interviews required to assess whether
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: a migrant has what's called a credible fear of returning
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: to their country of origin. So that means you have
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: people with totally legitimate asylum claims who can't get an
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: interview or get stuck in this Byzantine process and kind
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: of lost for years and years and years. And then
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: on the flip side, you have bad actors, you have traffickers,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: you have cartels, you have others who are trying to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: exploit loopholes in the policy or in our laws. And
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: in the process, they're putting people at risk who are
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: trying to flee desperate circumstances. So the status quo is
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: very bad and it's unbelievably frustrating that Congress won't act
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: because you cannot solve this problem alone. via an executive order.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: You will need an action from Congress.
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: And the president was extremely clear about that yesterday. In
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: every statement he made and everything that the White House
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: put out, it was clear that he was not saying
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: this is the solution or the only solution to the problem.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: It was a part of the solution at best and
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: done in the only way he could do it, which
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: is by himself because he didn't have the cooperation of
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: mega Republicans in Congress, thanks to Donald Trump.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: So there has been reporting that this executive order was
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: under consideration for months. What do you think he did
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: this now, sort of early June?
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking about this last time. I honestly
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: don't know. I mean, I think everything is politics, but
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: some things are actually policy and legal. And I'm going
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: to assume that this was in the works for a very,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: very long time. It is complicated, to your point, policy.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: It you know, is already being challenged in the courts.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: And so they had to make sure that it would
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: pass legal muster, et cetera, et cetera. So I wouldn't
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: assume that the motivations are exclusively political, but I think
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: it's pretty clear better to do this five months out
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: from an election in the wake of the Trump conviction
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: than one month out. I think it gives the president
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: something proactively to speak about at the debate that he's
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: doing on border security, which I think, as we saw,
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: you know, earlier this year in the New York special,
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: people were talking about this, the one that Tom Swasey,
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Congressman Swasey won, when we can go on the offense
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: and are not just playing defense on border security issues,
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: it can be beneficial to Democrats. So the politics line up,
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: but I'm not, I wouldn't presume that that was the only.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Reason it was done now.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: I also wouldn't assume this is the last we're going
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: to hear on this issue, right? It is, to my
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: earlier point, piecemeal. And there can be other EOs coming
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: to try to resolve some of these other pathways of
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: citizenship and other issues down the line. So I would
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: guess this is like the first in a series of
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: actions that he's going to take that have to pass
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: or try to pass legal muster that can try to
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: solve this temporarily as best you can through EO.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was my sense too. I mean
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: certainly they probably took as much time as they needed
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to streamline. the executive order legally to try to make
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: it survive these lawsuits. I don't know that it will,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: but I imagine there was a pretty deep legal scrub.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: It's also just the case that President Biden is known
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to kind of chew on decisions for a week or two, right?
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: Like sometimes he takes his time to do these things.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I also imagine though, getting this done before the debate
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: was probably a legal imperative. I mean, when Donald Trump
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: came out and killed the bipartisan immigration bill, he was like,
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: blame me, right? And Republicans at the time were like, oh,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: you have all the authorities you need, et cetera, et cetera.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: And so I think, you know, he's probably going to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: call their bluff.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: The frustrating thing about all of this, you know, that
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: I keep returning to that word is the president's trying
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: to govern, right?
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: And he's not, he's doing things.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: That are probably difficult for him. Not everything he wants,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: not everything that the other side wants. I mean, he
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: obviously came to that deal with Senator Lankford, a Republican
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: from Oklahoma that got killed in Congress.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: That probably was.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: A painstakingly long negotiation and finally got there just to
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: have Donald Trump kill this thing with one tweet or
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: Truth Social or whatever the hell it was. But trying
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: to govern, this is a Democrat's problem in so many ways.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: It's not a problem, it's our strength, but it's also
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: our political weakness is that we want to solve problems
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: and Republicans don't have an interest in solving this problem.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Responsibility gene is a pain in the ass. So President
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Biden has faced some criticism from progressives about this policy,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: both the bill that was tanked by Trump in Congress
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: and now this executive order How concerned do you think
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: the Biden administration should be about, you know, criticism that
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: this is a Trump-like policy or a general sense among
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: progressives that, you know, they're not going to be as
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: motivated to go out and vote for him or volunteer
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: for him in the wake of this EO? Or, you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: you're seeing similar sentiment among progressives about Gaza as well.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, are you worried about the progressive base getting demotivated?
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, when we're talking about five months from today,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: like I'm worried about everything, right? And so anything that
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: causes folks who are otherwise on our side to be
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: less interested in actually, you know, checking that box or
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: filling in that bubble, I'm going to be concerned.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I do think.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: It's lazy and a little ridiculous to compare Joe Biden
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: to Donald Trump on this. I mean, you heard the
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: last part of his quote that we played earlier, like,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: He's not trying to separate families from their children. He's not, or,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: you know, mothers from their children, parents from their children.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: He's not sending the military in to round up and
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: deport people. He's not banning people based on, you know,
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: from the country based on their religion. Like this is not,
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: I can get why you're frustrated in the moment, but
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: like to compare it, take a little.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Bit of settle down juice.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: Like we're talking about comparing Donald Trump and Joe Biden
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: on immigration policy. But that said, the politics of this
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: are obviously difficult. I mean, the politics of pretty much everything,
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: if it gets to the, The Resolute Desk are going
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: to be tough. And the president, I think, is doing
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: on balance the right thing electorally, but I'm not sure
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: that's the sole motivation here. I think he actually wants to... Well,
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I should say, it's certainly part of the calculus. Everything
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: is politics. But he is trying to do the best
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: he can to solve a real problem that the MAGA
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: Republican base is preventing him from solving. And even some
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Republicans seem to be as frustrated as he is with that.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: So I respect that he is trying to govern even
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: in the midst of a very difficult and very tough election. And,
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: you know, that's what we should expect in our president.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's what we should want. That's what we should want, yeah.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: So one of the Republican arguments about that bipartisan border
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: bill that Trump scuttled was, again, that, you know, they said, oh, yeah,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Biden already has the authorities. He needs to close the border.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: He just doesn't want to do it. Some of them
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: went even further and they were like, oh, this is
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: part of the great replacement theory, right? He's trying to
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: bring in new voters from the, you know, across the border. Nonsense. Nonsense.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So Biden issues this executive order. He does what Republicans want.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: He uses the authorities they claim he already has. So
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: let's hear their reactions to this aggressive step he took.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I'm sure they praised it.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: They loved it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: Extremely effusively. Let's hear.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I will make a prediction, Jesse.
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: In the next few months, we're gonna see the numbers
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: drop down a little bit. And this is just like
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: what Biden did with gas prices. They're trying to fool
• 14:20
  Speaker 6: the voters into ignoring his disastrous record. He wants this
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: invasion and so does every other Democrat.
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: Now, suddenly now, now he wants to issue some weak
• 14:32
  Speaker 7: executive order. One, by the way, and we don't know
• 14:35
  Speaker 7: what's in this. The devil will definitely be in the
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: details here, I can assure you.
• 14:39
  Speaker 8: So I have an issue with 2,500, 5,000, or whatever
• 14:43
  Speaker 8: the number is that we've seen before. If that number
• 14:46
  Speaker 8: can be 2,500, why not make it zero?
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: Well, first of all, it's a nothing that he did,
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: and allowing massive numbers of people still to come in,
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: and it's just misinformation, disinformation, and just another hit job.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: So that was Ted Cruz, Speaker Johnson, Congressman Juan Siscomani,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and Donald Trump, obviously. I don't expect these guys to
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: praise Joe Biden, but it couldn't be more obvious that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Republicans actually don't want to fix the immigration system because
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: they want to run on it. How do we show
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: that to voters who are upset about the border and
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: have been fed a steady stream of Fox News clips
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: that say, oh, this is what the Democrats want. It's
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: only their fault. But when the reality is there was
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: a bill on the table that could have passed if
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Republicans hadn't spiked it.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: So I think two things. I think, one, that is
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: the political upside of this announcement. that, you know, 22
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: days from today when the president stands across from Donald Trump,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: he can say, I did something on this. And it's
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: something that my base didn't love. It's something that I
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: may not have loved, but I'm trying to solve a problem.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: You are just trying to create an issue here. And
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: it's a communications challenge, honestly, is how do we tell
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: the story that Democrats are trying to seriously address the
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: issues at the border that are of serious concern to
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: voters and Republicans are trying to create a political issue.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: And I think for a lot of the last decade,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: I think we have, as Democrats, lost the thread on...
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: We've been playing defense on this issue a lot and
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: just taking the incoming about the caravan and all this
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: stuff and saying, oh, no, it's not us. But going
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: on offense as the Swazi campaign, and I think the
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: lesson that the Swazi campaign earlier this spring taught us
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: is that when we are affirmative, when we state our
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: affirmative beliefs, and those can be humane border policies, right?
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: The EO yesterday has exemptions for unaccompanied minors. It has
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: exemptions for people with medical emergencies, things that are, but
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: still has some stricter, tougher policies. We can say that
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: out loud. And that actually can be something that persuades
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: voters that we're serious about the issue and allows us
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: to open the door to do the other things we
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: want to do, like solve the dreamer issue and expand
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: pathways to citizenship, et cetera. So I guess bottom line is,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: We need to be able to make an affirmative case
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: about what our immigration policy is and not just treat
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: it as a third rail and a cudgel that Republicans
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: are going to, regardless, beat us over the head with
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: if we don't say something positive ourselves.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Totally agree with that. You have to be talking about
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: what you're for, not just trying to duck the issue
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: or criticize Republican policies. Before we take a quick break,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: everyone should know that it's Pride Month and the Crooked
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  Speaker 1: communities across America. Shop over 50 new pieces at crooked.com. And.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for ways to understand the news and
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: implications on Trump's 34 felony convictions, consider signing up to
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Dan's newsletter, The Message Box, where he cuts through the
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: usual media noise to bring you a clearer understanding of
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the 2024 campaign landscape. Guys, I'm going to go off
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: script here. Dan's Message Box is the smartest thing I
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: read every time it comes out that week. I know
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: that almost every campaign is a subscriber to Message Box.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I know that people, the chief of staff in the
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: Biden White House was reading Message Box and replying to Dan.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: It is like the smartest, thoughtful, deep dives into polling
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: and messaging and strategy. And best of all, it gets
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: sent directly to your inbox. Sign up today. It will
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: make you smarter. Go to messagebox.substack.com. Well, let's take a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: minute and talk about what the former president has been
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: up to and how he responded to being convicted on
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: 34 felony counts. He, you know, of course, reacted with
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: his usual sobriety and seriousness of purpose. First, he went
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: to a UFC fight and then he joined TikTok. So
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the first TikTok was a video of Trump and UFC
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: CEO Dana White walking into this arena, I think in Newark,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to what at least sounds like raucous applause. Let's take
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a listen. The president is now on TikTok.
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: It's my honor.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: It's just like a kid rock song running for president.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: The Trump campaign, the RNC, also announced that they raised
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: $ 70 million in the 48 hours after the verdict for
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: a total of more than $ 140 million in the month
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: of May. To put that number in perspective, it's near
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: three times what Biden and the DNC raised in April. So, Adisu,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: you guys are doing a ton of research on the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: issues that move swing voters. How much do you think
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: they Trump guilty verdict matters with the, the persuadable universe?
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I think, okay.
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: First thing I have to say, because we talked about
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: this in the, in the last time I was on
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: a couple of weeks ago is anybody who thinks that
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: this is a good thing for Donald Trump needs to.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Go outside and touch grass. Like I agree.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: It is for the former president of the United States,
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: the nominee or soon to be nominee of a major
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: party to be a convicted felon on 34 counts is
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: a bad thing for his political future.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: It just is.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: And sometimes I think Democrats, we forget how to like
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: take the W. It's like sometimes a win is a win.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Like this is a win. With that said, I think
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: the scale of the win is what is debatable, right?
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I think in the world that I live in, the
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: world that you live in, the world that most of
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: the folks listening to this podcast live in, you would
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: think that a felony conviction would be disqualifying for a
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: nominee for any office, let alone president of the United States.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: But the reality is, and this is, this is, just
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: how it is, it's not how it should be, is
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: it is not. It is just not disqualifying. It is
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: not the only thing that is going to be the
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: silver bullet that kills the Donald Trump candidacy here.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: So is it over?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: No.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: Does it help us?
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: And then the question becomes, how do we use it, right?
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: And to me, I think the biggest and most effective
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: use here is on the communication side is it allows
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: us to make the case very credibly, I think, that
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Trump is running for himself and not for you. And
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: You know, the contrast, I think the fundamental contrast of
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: this election is that Donald Trump is running for president
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: and wants to be president for selfish reasons. And Joe
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Biden cares about people and is trying to do the
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: right thing by people. And this is just as clear
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: evidence as it is. He wants to pardon himself. He
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: wants to stay out of jail. He wants to use,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: you know, the federal apparatus to punish his political enemies
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: who he feels like mistreated him, even though it was
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: a state case and not a federal case, whatever. And
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: that is why he's running for president. That has nothing
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: to do with your pocketbook, your daily life. And Joe Biden,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: you know, say what you will about him, but he
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: is at least trying to help you. And so that frame,
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: I think, can change minds, right? And to John's point
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: from a couple of podcasts ago, it only needs to
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: change a couple of people's minds. There's 80% of the
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: electorate who's not changing their minds regardless of what happens.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: But in that 20, if this really can move a
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: significant portion, like that could be the margin of victory
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: or defeat.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we need some tens of thousands of people in
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: places like Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, et cetera, et cetera. But, I mean,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: I think you made an important point there because I
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: think for a lot of people listening to this show
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: or kind of like in the progressive space, just the
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: fact of this verdict to us is like it's obvious.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: It's disqualifying. It's over. But I do think the messaging
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: around the verdict, like the messaging fight started long before
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: the verdict happened. But in some sense, Donald Trump has
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: a head start on us, right, because he's been consistent
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: in calling this case rigged. unfair and a kangaroo court,
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera, for months and months and months.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: And Democrats were trying to be, or at least President
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Biden was trying to be more responsible and wait for
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: a verdict and then point out, okay, this guy was
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: found guilty by a jury of his peers. And I
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: think the broader point that you're making here about, you know,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: this is another proof point about where Trump only cares
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: about himself and is running for office to get out
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: of trouble is we have to advance that message and
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: we have to be back to Republican message of, you know,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that this is a politicized attack led by Joe Biden's DOJ,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Obviously that's wrong, but getting that
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: message to people is not easy. And back to the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: TikTok point, I mean, with only a few days, after
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: just a few days of getting on TikTok, Trump's account
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: had more than 5 million followers and that intro video
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: that we just heard had 80 million views. And so
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I talked to Michael Tyler about this too, but I mean,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Biden does the worst with voters who get their news
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: from nontraditional media sources like TikTok or social media generally.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: And Trump's advantage in those places only seems to be increasing.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: How worried are you about this explosive growth on TikTok
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: for Trump and this sort of general challenge of like
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: getting information to voters who are looking to those places
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: for news?
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I'm really worried about it. I think anywhere.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: You know, the thing that has changed the most in
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: the time that I've been in politics, that you've been
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: in politics, is how people consume political or any news information, right?
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: It used to.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Be pretty straightforward about how you sort of mainlined information
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: to the voters and tried to move public opinion, and
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: now it is not. And even over the last four years,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: TikTok has exploded in how it is now a real
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: platform where voters, particularly younger voters, get information about everything.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: And it's harder to track and it's harder to influence
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: and it's harder to move because it's algorithm-based and all
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: these things. And so the fact that the Trump campaign
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: and I think the right wing in general is very
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: active on that platform gives me a lot of pause.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: And honestly, I'm surprised they didn't get on there sooner.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: Me too. I think it was the Super Bowl, right,
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: when– the Biden campaign and president Biden got on there.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: So that's five or whatever, four months.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Ago, but it's no, it's, it's to have a fully
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: owned and operated broadcast channel for free where you, you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: is essentially what TikTok is, is a valuable asset for the,
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: for the Trump campaign. And we have to take it
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: seriously and compete there.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: And you know, you're, you're right that Biden got on,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: I think around the Superbowl several months ago, but I
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: think they only have about 350,000 followers. I tried to,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: get Michael Tyler to engage me on this question of.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Whether- The follower count question.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: No, the question of like, look, Joe Biden signed a
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: bill to ban TikTok, and then Donald Trump used to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: want to ban TikTok, but then one of his biggest
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: donors had a meeting with him, and that guy owns
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: a huge stake in ByteDance, which is the parent company
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: of TikTok. And wow, what a surprise. Now Donald Trump
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: no longer wants to ban TikTok, and Trump does really
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: well on the platform, and Biden is struggling. I'm not
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: saying that's the only reason why. Obviously, communicating on the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: platform has been greatly complicated by the war in Gaza,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: for example. But it's concerning that we just don't really
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: know why Trump's seen this explosive growth and favorable pro-Trump
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: content has.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: I think, A, they've invested a lot just infrastructurally in
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: building a sort of right-wing echo chamber. I think some
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: of it is structural in that it's easier to be
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: the opposition. And so it's easier to make critical content
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: than it is to make and share critical content than
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: it is to make and share supportive content of.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: The incumbent president.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: And it does better, right? So, you know, I think
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: some of it is strategic. Some of it is structural.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: It is what it is.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: But I think, I know that the Biden campaign and
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: allies are acutely aware of this. And it's not just
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: the official accounts. Like, sure, Biden has fewer followers than Trump,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: but this is a network problem. You need to have
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: accounts to share. You need to solve the algorithm. And
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: God bless whoever is the content uh, strategy director for
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: the Biden campaign. Cause like, you know, you don't have,
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: you've seen their, their accounts with, uh, 30 followers that
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: go super duper viral because the content is really good.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: And so some of this is a content strategy question
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: where we might have fewer followers on our side, but
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: if we have better content than whatever that mess is
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: with data, data, white and Donald Trump, like it'll be
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the algorithm go viral. We'll have influencers to amplify it
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: behind the scenes and so forth. So, It's an entire
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: like battlefield that is just new, new to me, right?
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: I ran a campaign for president four or five years ago,
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: and this was like kind of on the radar screen.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: And now it's like.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Squarely in the middle of the battle for hearts and minds.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And just on that content strategy and how communications
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: have changed. I mean, you know, like we kind of
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: set up Trump going to a UFC fight to show
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: that like he wasn't taking the verdict too seriously, or
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: at least not too hard. But listeners should understand that
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: like going to a UFC fight is a message event, right?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Like we think of message events as like real people, you.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Know, at a table about healthcare, the.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Press corps, right?
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: This is very different. Like Trump walks into a stadium
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: with 16,000 people. They go nuts for him. The TV
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: cuts to him. He's buddies with Dana White who runs
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: the UFC. So he gets the star treatment. Trump walks
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: around the arena. He says hi to a bunch of
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: kind of influencer types, almost entirely male. but who talk
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: about that interaction later. Maybe they're on podcasts, maybe they
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: just post about it on social media. And so I
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: know it can sound a little silly, but I think
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: this is actually a great use of time when you
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: think about the voters he's trying to reach and turn out.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, we have to think about content
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: differently nowadays, or I should say, we have to think
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: about reaching voters and persuasion and mobilization differently via content.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: It is, you know, Paid advertising is exceptionally important. I
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: think even more important this year than it has ever
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: been because you just need volume to break through the noise.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: But the way to organically, what we call organically for free,
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: reach people is like this, right? It's doing things that will,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: on their own, take on a life of their own
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: beyond the exact moment. And so in the old days,
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: it was you do a rally in a swing state,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: you get local press to cover you. which I'm not
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: suggesting is a bad thing. It's a great thing, right?
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: And you get some local influencers maybe to come, you know,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: so they talk about it in their neighborhoods and it
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: fires up your base and volunteers so you can knock doors.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: Still an incredible part of the strategy, but, or important
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: part of the strategy, but this is just that, the social.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Media version, right?
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: And it's got to be a part of what every
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: campaign and certainly at the presidential level does going forward
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: because it's how people engage with politics now.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I honestly, I just, I don't know what
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the kind of progressive version is of a UFC fight
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: in Newark.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, President Obama, you know, went to NBA games, right?
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: That's true. Right?
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: Like they were just, I think the UFC base is, Yeah,
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: it's a little whiter, a lot maler.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't say that.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: It's actually pretty white and Latino, which I think is
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: most combat sports.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: It's diverse.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: It's diverse. It's just very male. It's diverse, yeah.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: But certainly very male. I think a little more looks
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: like the Republican Trumpy base. NBA, more diverse, more black.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: So it makes sense.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: So we have our own kind of sports strategy that
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: I think mirrors it. But that is not small potatoes,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: to your first point.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: It is actually.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: you know, showing up at a, whatever it might be,
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: is not a, the OTRs as we used to call them.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe they're still called, right? Off the record.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: Stops are like, they're not little stuff. That's actually, can
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: be really big stuff. And I think this was smart, honestly,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: for the Trump campaign to do this, to go to
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: a place where he's adored right after he, you know,
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: got convicted of 34 felonies.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And, you know, you sort of helped me get
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: to my last question here, which is about fundraising. So,
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: to date, you know, the Biden campaign has been out
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: raising Trump by a lot. Uh, Trump, you know, keeps
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: spending tons of money on legal bills, which isn't, which
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: is not ideal if you're the campaign manager and trying
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: to think about, okay, what do we have for ads
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: down the road? But what do you make of those,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: those Trump numbers? I mean, I was a little, um,
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I expected him to get a bounce, but not that
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: big of a bounce to be honest.
• 31:12
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: I think the same. I, I certainly, his base is
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: feeding grief, you know, it's a grievance base and it
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: has been since 2015. So this is the be all
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: and end all of grievance politics.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Um, and our leader, our savior is being persecuted is
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: a great, easy pitch to your base to ask for money.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: So it's a little more than I would have thought.
• 31:35
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: But how much of it is going to program that's
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: going to reach voters versus, you know, some law firm
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: bottom line is a question I, you know, I don't know. Um,
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: but I'm going to assume is not insignificant amount. So, um,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: We have to be, look, this is still going to
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: be a close election, even in the wake of a
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: felony conviction. You know, like I said earlier, if a
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: significant percentage of a quarter of the electorate is now
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: open to being persuaded or persuaded by the conviction, we
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: still have to do the work to persuade them and
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: not to mention the folks who might be in our base,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: less motivated to vote, et cetera, et cetera.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: That all costs money.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: And the bigger advantage that we have in being able
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: to do all of that The more likely it is
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: we're going to win. So the more money they raise,
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: the better, the worse it is for us, better, the
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: worse it is for us. And, uh, uh, that to
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: me is like the, in some ways, the only silver
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: lining for Trump in this crazy conviction situation is that,
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: you know, he's kicking gin up his base and, um,
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: try to offset the bad politics with, you know, more
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: spending and more money.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: And just, you know, for our audience, like who are
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: hyper engaged in, in reading these headlines and sort of
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: trying to constantly compare the Biden's results with the Trump results.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Just know that not all fundraising is equal. Money to
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: the campaign itself, like federal hard dollars are actually more
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: efficient because of the rates you get on advertising down
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: the road. Donations to like the DNC, for example, the RNC,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: you can take way bigger checks. So it's easier to
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: raise money into those accounts or state party accounts. And
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: then there's the super PAC side where donors can cut,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: you know, basically unlimited checks based on how much cash
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: you have. But those ads are not going to go
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: as far down the road when the advertising environment gets
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: really tight.
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 33:25
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Hard dollars are definitely the most efficient dollars. And you
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: also can coordinate it with your candidate and there's all,
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: you know, you can spend it on your offices or
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: your field staff, et cetera, et cetera. But it is not,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: you know, we should not take this lightly. And if
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: there's one sort of piece of advice I can give
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: to the audience here is, we should not be spiking
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: the football based on this conviction. We should celebrate it
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: as a W, as I said before, but this is,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: we've got five months left, and we're going to have
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: to run through the tape for these five months and
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: use this as a tool in our arsenal to persuade voters,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: but we got to make the case. We can't assume
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: the case is being made for us just by the
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: facts that happen to be on our side.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's a great place to end it. Adisu,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: as always, great to see you. I'm sorry, everyone, for
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: not being Dan. I say that all the time It's
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: all good. Most Monday pods. But he will be back
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: hopefully Friday. If not, maybe I'll be in here. Are
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: you guys going to let me leave? We'll see. But
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: thank you again, Adisu. Great to see you.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: My pleasure to be here always, man.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Have a good one. And stick around. We're going to
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: take a break. When we come back, you're going to
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: hear my interview with Michael Tyler from the Biden campaign.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And you will not want to miss that. Joining me
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: now is the communications director for the Biden-Harris campaign, Michael Tyler. Michael,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: it's great to see you. Thank you for having me.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: It's great to be on. All the way live from Wilmington.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: You got a nice backdrop there. We see some Joe signs,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: some baby blue. Everything's very nice. It's very professional setup.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: I just want everyone to know that. So thank you
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: for joining. It's been a wild week or two in
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: this campaign. Obviously, President Trump, or former President Trump, had
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: some legal challenges that came to the fore last week.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: President Biden and the campaign... have gone from declining to
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: comment on Trump's trial in New York and various legal
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: challenges to you and Robert De Niro going down to
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: the courthouse the other week where Trump's trial was happening
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: for a press conference where you guys focused on January
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: 6th to releasing campaign statements on the verdict itself. Can
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: you just walk us through the evolution of your strategy
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: and messaging and why you guys decided to weigh in
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: when you did?
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no.
• 35:41
  Speaker 8: So let me back up and talk about during the trial.
• 35:44
  Speaker 8: During the trial, of course, the president in this campaign
• 35:47
  Speaker 8: was never going to comment on the substance of the
• 35:48
  Speaker 8: trial while it was underway. It's very important that we
• 35:51
  Speaker 8: respect the rule of law, that we respect the integrity
• 35:55
  Speaker 8: of the justice system and let that process play out.
• 35:58
  Speaker 8: What we did last week when we went down to
• 36:00
  Speaker 8: the courthouse was, I'm sure you know this and everybody
• 36:04
  Speaker 8: who listens, who watches cable news knows this, that every
• 36:07
  Speaker 8: single day since Trump's criminal trial began, News media cameras
• 36:11
  Speaker 8: were camped out there 24 hours a day, seven days
• 36:13
  Speaker 8: a week. Incessant coverage where they were showing nothing but
• 36:17
  Speaker 8: NYPD and security guards outside the courthouse steps. A lot
• 36:21
  Speaker 8: of the news media coverage was about the personal stakes
• 36:23
  Speaker 8: for Donald Trump and not necessarily what the stakes are
• 36:26
  Speaker 8: for the American people in this election. So when we
• 36:28
  Speaker 8: went down there, we went down there with that precise
• 36:31
  Speaker 8: message that Donald Trump is a threat to the American
• 36:33
  Speaker 8: people and to our democracy, echoing what the president said
• 36:36
  Speaker 8: when he challenged Donald Trump to the two debates that
• 36:39
  Speaker 8: we're now doing starting on June 27th for the things
• 36:42
  Speaker 8: that he wants to talk to Trump about as relates
• 36:44
  Speaker 8: to the threat that he poses to the American people, right?
• 36:46
  Speaker 8: The role that he played in overturning Roe v. Wade,
• 36:48
  Speaker 8: the political violence that he continues to sow, the failed
• 36:52
  Speaker 8: economy that he wants us to return back to, right?
• 36:54
  Speaker 8: Like those are the things that Donald Trump, when he's
• 36:57
  Speaker 8: not stuck in a courthouse or not down in Mar-a-Lago,
• 36:59
  Speaker 8: when he actually goes out onto the stump, those are
• 37:01
  Speaker 8: the things that he is talking about every day. And
• 37:03
  Speaker 8: we want to make sure that that the conversation going
• 37:07
  Speaker 8: into the first debate and going into this general election,
• 37:09
  Speaker 8: as more people start to tune in, is about the
• 37:11
  Speaker 8: fundamental stakes. And so that's what we were focused on then.
• 37:13
  Speaker 8: That's what we're going to be focused on for the
• 37:15
  Speaker 8: next month here leading up into the debate.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: And it's what the.
• 37:17
  Speaker 8: President is going to talk about every single day between
• 37:20
  Speaker 8: now and November.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's a good sort of
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: peek behind the curtain into sometimes how basic communication strategy
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: can be. It's like, hey, the cameras are all here.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Let's go to the cameras, right? Like Chuck Schumer's made
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: a political life out of having press conferences on Sunday
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: because the New York media needed something to cover and
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: talk about. You guys did that De Niro press conference.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, you said directly to those reporters, like, we're
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: doing this because you're here, right? We're doing this because
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: you're focused on this trial. Later, I saw the campaign
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: express some frustration with the fact that Trump's trial was
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: getting more coverage than some of President Biden's events. Can
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: you help us understand the frustration there? I mean, isn't
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: it a good thing when your opponent's legal troubles are
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: getting like roadblock coverage?
• 38:01
  Speaker 8: Well, certainly now the American people know that we're running
• 38:03
  Speaker 8: against a convicted felon who's going to do anything to
• 38:07
  Speaker 8: regain and hold on to power to serve himself. Like
• 38:09
  Speaker 8: that is fundamentally true moving forward here. I think the
• 38:12
  Speaker 8: problem through a lot of the news media coverage, and
• 38:15
  Speaker 8: it's not just related to Donald Trump's legal trials, it's
• 38:18
  Speaker 8: related to, you know, the overall sort of media ecosystem
• 38:22
  Speaker 8: that we're dealing with, right? It is far more interested
• 38:24
  Speaker 8: in in process, in horse race, rather than the actual
• 38:28
  Speaker 8: issues and the substance and what the personal stakes are
• 38:30
  Speaker 8: for the American people, their families, their communities, their lives.
• 38:35
  Speaker 8: And so what the campaign and what the president understands
• 38:38
  Speaker 8: is that we are going to have to circumvent that
• 38:40
  Speaker 8: a lot of the time. So sometimes that means going
• 38:42
  Speaker 8: down to the courthouse to bring your message directly to
• 38:45
  Speaker 8: the shiny object that the media is incessantly focused on.
• 38:48
  Speaker 8: Sometimes it means going and when the president does a
• 38:51
  Speaker 8: speech in a place like Philadelphia, not just doing the speech,
• 38:54
  Speaker 8: but actually sitting down around a kitchen table with the family,
• 38:56
  Speaker 8: bringing our own cameras and then chopping it up and
• 38:58
  Speaker 8: using it for our digital platforms, right? To have personal
• 39:01
  Speaker 8: conversations about the fundamental stakes for this specific family. I
• 39:04
  Speaker 8: think you saw us do this in North Carolina a
• 39:06
  Speaker 8: while ago when we first launched.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Our TikTok account. Yeah.
• 39:09
  Speaker 8: You actually had a kid who posted it on his
• 39:10
  Speaker 8: own account. We then amplified it from there.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:12
  Speaker 8: Got far more coverage than any speech we would give
• 39:14
  Speaker 8: on any single day. So we understand the challenges of
• 39:17
  Speaker 8: the news media environment that we're operating in. So we
• 39:20
  Speaker 8: have to find creative ways to get around that.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think people don't totally understand that last
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: mile problem with all communications and messaging and politics. It's
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: like you can edit that speech for as long as
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: you want, but if nobody covers it and doesn't get
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: it to the listener and to the voters you need,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter. There is a broader like constant
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: debate about messaging focus. Some strategists will go on cable
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: news all day and say President Biden should only focus
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: on economic messaging because people are mad about inflation and
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: you got to meet them where they're at. Others say
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: President Biden is going to win this race by going
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: negative and disqualifying Trump every day. Obviously, every campaign is
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: a combination of both positive and negative. But how are
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: you guys thinking about that balance? Because you just had
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: this verdict that is this unprecedented, enormous outcome that a
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: lot of voters don't know about yet. And it's your
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: job to communicate it to them.
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:12
  Speaker 8: So a couple of things, right? Number one, Every campaign
• 40:16
  Speaker 8: always has to do both, right? Regardless of the dynamics,
• 40:18
  Speaker 8: regardless of the circumstances. I think particularly as it relates
• 40:22
  Speaker 8: to the 2024 election and the work that Joe Biden's
• 40:26
  Speaker 8: campaign understands it needs to do is that we're doing
• 40:28
  Speaker 8: quite well with a lot of voters who are paying
• 40:30
  Speaker 8: a lot of attention, right? You listen to this podcast,
• 40:32
  Speaker 8: you watch cable news, you read the New York Times,
• 40:33
  Speaker 8: like you're tuned in, you're far more likely to support
• 40:36
  Speaker 8: Joe Biden and understand the fundamental stakes. What we are
• 40:39
  Speaker 8: dealing with in 2024 is a combination of factors, right?
• 40:42
  Speaker 8: an increasingly fragmented, fractured media environment, an electorate that has
• 40:47
  Speaker 8: been through a lot since going back to 2016 and
• 40:50
  Speaker 8: is tired and has been rejecting politics and not necessarily
• 40:54
  Speaker 8: tuning in, actively resisting politics. And so what we have
• 40:57
  Speaker 8: to do is address the information gap. So yeah, we've
• 41:00
  Speaker 8: spent a lot of time going back to August of
• 41:02
  Speaker 8: last year, communicating the president's historic record of accomplishment, everything
• 41:06
  Speaker 8: from the 15 million jobs he created, 800,000 of those
• 41:08
  Speaker 8: being manufacturing jobs, the work that he has done to
• 41:11
  Speaker 8: lower costs for Americans, capping insulin at $ 35, $ 2, 000 out-of-pocket
• 41:16
  Speaker 8: prescription drug cap for our seniors, the work that he's
• 41:18
  Speaker 8: done in spite of Republican intransigence in a Supreme Court
• 41:22
  Speaker 8: that tried to get in his way of reducing the
• 41:24
  Speaker 8: student loan debt burden to the tune of almost $ 170 billion,
• 41:28
  Speaker 8: like relentlessly communicating the record of accomplishment, while simultaneously addressing
• 41:33
  Speaker 8: the fact that Donald Trump, outside of the last few weeks,
• 41:36
  Speaker 8: has just not been in the spotlight. So the emotional
• 41:38
  Speaker 8: reality that the American people live with the sense of anxiety,
• 41:41
  Speaker 8: the chaos, the fear, the violence that this man inspired, right,
• 41:46
  Speaker 8: has not been front and center in the lives of
• 41:48
  Speaker 8: the American people. And so we absolutely have to not
• 41:51
  Speaker 8: only remind people of the record of accomplishment, the vision
• 41:54
  Speaker 8: for the future, but we need to remind people of
• 41:57
  Speaker 8: the fundamental stakes now that we are running against a
• 42:00
  Speaker 8: guy who is a convicted felon, who is out for himself,
• 42:02
  Speaker 8: who is running a campaign of revenge, of retribution, who
• 42:05
  Speaker 8: is literally in the wake of his criminal conviction. Once again,
• 42:09
  Speaker 8: talking about jailing his political opponents, sowing violence, sowing chaos,
• 42:13
  Speaker 8: like we have to remind people of what's at stake
• 42:15
  Speaker 8: in this election. So we're going to do both from
• 42:17
  Speaker 8: now until November.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you made a point that is really
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: important for listeners to understand, which is that there's a
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: lot of data showing that President Biden does really well
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: with college educated voters and voters who are getting their
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: news from traditional media sources, like vetted good information. President
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Biden is doing less well with non-college educated voters and
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: voters who are getting their news from social media, or
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: just generally not paying attention to politics. So the good
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: news for the Biden-Harris campaign is that voters who understand
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: your record tend to like it more. The bad news
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: is the voters we are losing, the Democratic Party are losing,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: are the hardest to reach. There was a data for
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: progress poll that showed swing voters are actually the least
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: likely to have heard about Trump's conviction, which is troubling.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: How are you thinking about the best ways to communicate
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: with those voters and especially to inform them about the
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: guilty verdict if, you know, they're not listening to the
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America or reading the New York Times or,
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: you know, traditional news.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: So you got to use every tool at your disposal.
• 43:15
  Speaker 8: That's why a lot of our work, as I said,
• 43:17
  Speaker 8: began as far back as August to sort of fertilize
• 43:19
  Speaker 8: the contrast for what we knew was coming. That continues
• 43:23
  Speaker 8: right now. Like we continue to run paid advertisements. But again,
• 43:26
  Speaker 8: to address the information gap. making sure that we're not
• 43:29
  Speaker 8: simply running TV ads, but that we are over-indexing on
• 43:32
  Speaker 8: things like streaming, right? Hulu, YouTube TV, et cetera, et cetera.
• 43:36
  Speaker 8: So when people are sitting down in front of their screens,
• 43:38
  Speaker 8: like we're actually hitting them with our messaging, it means
• 43:40
  Speaker 8: that we're doing digital organizing. A lot of the lessons
• 43:42
  Speaker 8: that we learned from 2020 still apply. But frankly, even
• 43:45
  Speaker 8: more so now in 2024 is like now that we've
• 43:48
  Speaker 8: put the worst of the pandemic behind us, thank you
• 43:51
  Speaker 8: to Joe Biden, we have to get back to some
• 43:53
  Speaker 8: of the old school, like, you know, boots on the
• 43:55
  Speaker 8: ground organizing. So the work that we are doing in
• 43:59
  Speaker 8: the month of June, for example, is scaling up our
• 44:01
  Speaker 8: organizing apparatus. We now have 200 field offices across all
• 44:04
  Speaker 8: the battleground states. We are doing things, not only traditional
• 44:08
  Speaker 8: door knocking, phone banking, but we're working with small businesses,
• 44:12
  Speaker 8: for example, right, in black and brown communities, not just
• 44:15
  Speaker 8: doing visibility, but doing things where our Canvas launches will
• 44:18
  Speaker 8: actually launch out of these places. So if you're going
• 44:21
  Speaker 8: to get your hair cut, you're already going to run
• 44:22
  Speaker 8: into a Canvas, right? And that's your opportunity to open
• 44:25
  Speaker 8: up the door of the campaign, get involved, volunteer, right?
• 44:28
  Speaker 8: And so increasingly making sure that we are tapping in
• 44:31
  Speaker 8: to local grassroots organizations so that we're not simply relying
• 44:35
  Speaker 8: upon broadcast media to communicate our message is going to
• 44:38
  Speaker 8: be the thing that helps us continue to address the
• 44:40
  Speaker 8: information gap over the summer as more and more people
• 44:43
  Speaker 8: continue to tune in.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Do you think we'll see information about the Trump verdict
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: in campaign ads? Stay tuned. Stay tuned. Do you think
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: we'll see Al Pacino doing a press conference? Are we
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: just going for that kind of generation back here? Look,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing.
• 44:58
  Speaker 8: Whether it's De Niro, Pacino, or anybody else who understands
• 45:01
  Speaker 8: the stakes, now's the time to understand what's at stake
• 45:04
  Speaker 8: here and sign up. Al Pacino wants you to go
• 45:06
  Speaker 8: to JoeBiden.com. Not only donate, but to volunteer.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I texted you that morning. I was like, the fact
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: that you had to stroll up with those guys and
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: launch that press conference must have been intimidating as hell.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: It was a very New York day. It was a
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: very New York day. Speaking of social media, ever since
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: President Biden signed a bill to ban TikTok, it seems
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: like there has been an explosion of pro-Trump content on TikTok.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: He got on, Trump recently got on TikTok. He got
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: massive follower growth almost immediately. Are you guys at all
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: worried that they could put their thumb on the scales
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: over there given- that, you know, this is an existential
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: election for the company itself?
• 45:43
  Speaker 8: Well, listen, I think we're under no false illusion that
• 45:45
  Speaker 8: there's going to be all kinds of issues that we
• 45:48
  Speaker 8: have to deal with on these platforms from Trump, from
• 45:52
  Speaker 8: foreign actors everywhere else. We've seen it going back to 2016.
• 45:55
  Speaker 8: That's absolutely going to be a factor. I think that's
• 45:57
  Speaker 8: why this campaign understood it was even more incumbent for
• 45:59
  Speaker 8: us to not fight with one hand tied behind our back.
• 46:02
  Speaker 8: Like you have to be on these platforms. You have
• 46:03
  Speaker 8: to communicate with your own voice, with your own message
• 46:06
  Speaker 8: across TikTok and other platforms. So we're going to continue
• 46:09
  Speaker 8: to do that. We launched our own TikTok account going
• 46:11
  Speaker 8: back in February of this year. So we're going to
• 46:14
  Speaker 8: be on that platform and all others. Of course, I'm
• 46:16
  Speaker 8: getting a phone call during this conversation to make sure
• 46:19
  Speaker 8: that we are leaving no stone untouched, right?
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Was it Biden? Was it Joe Biden? You can take
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: it if it's him. Just conference him in. We'd love
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: to get him on.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: Sorry.
• 46:27
  Speaker 8: So yeah, like there are going to be barriers, right?
• 46:30
  Speaker 8: There's going to be misinformation. There's going to be just
• 46:33
  Speaker 8: direct disinformation. but it's on us as a campaign and
• 46:36
  Speaker 8: the entire ecosystem to combat that, right? It takes, frankly,
• 46:40
  Speaker 8: like a deluge of our own messaging to overcome that.
• 46:43
  Speaker 8: So that's why we're on those platforms. That's why we're
• 46:46
  Speaker 8: excited that our allies understand the need to be on
• 46:48
  Speaker 8: those platforms because we have to use every single tool
• 46:51
  Speaker 8: that we have at our disposal.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then this is one that's really on not
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: just the Biden-Harris campaign, but literally everyone listening. Like if
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: you're concerned about a flood of Trump content on social media,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: then you got to get on social media and push
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: your own positive message We are all messengers here, as
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Dan Pfeiffer likes to tell us.
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: Correct.
• 47:06
  Speaker 8: You cannot rely upon the content moderation. We have to
• 47:10
  Speaker 8: flood the zone with.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Our own messaging. Yes, absolutely. Switching gears here. So President
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Biden is supposed to debate Donald Trump on June 27th.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: That is ridiculously soon. How are you guys preparing for this?
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Are you going to do the standard debate prep camp?
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: What does that look like? Yeah.
• 47:26
  Speaker 8: So we are prepared to debate on June 27th. I
• 47:29
  Speaker 8: think it's an open question on if Donald Trump shows up.
• 47:31
  Speaker 8: There's one candidate. here who has a record of complaining
• 47:34
  Speaker 8: about the debates, then skipping out on them. That's Donald Trump.
• 47:38
  Speaker 8: He got beat by the president twice in 2020. He
• 47:41
  Speaker 8: hasn't shown up to a debate since. So Joe Biden
• 47:44
  Speaker 8: will be in Atlanta on June 27th, but we'll see
• 47:47
  Speaker 8: what happens with Donald Trump. The president's going to be ready.
• 47:50
  Speaker 8: He's going to be well prepared. The campaign is also,
• 47:54
  Speaker 8: as you know, we're crisscrossing the country right now, sort
• 47:57
  Speaker 8: of setting the table for the debate, for the questions
• 47:59
  Speaker 8: that Donald Trump is going to have to answer for
• 48:01
  Speaker 8: when he takes the stage. You have victims of his
• 48:04
  Speaker 8: extreme level of abortion bans that are crisscrossing the country.
• 48:07
  Speaker 8: You have Capitol Police officers who put their lives on
• 48:10
  Speaker 8: the line to protect and defend our democracy on January 6th,
• 48:14
  Speaker 8: who are doing the same, crisscrossing the country. And so
• 48:17
  Speaker 8: we're going to make sure that when he takes the stage,
• 48:19
  Speaker 8: that the American people understand that in Donald Trump, you
• 48:23
  Speaker 8: have somebody who presents a persistent and growing threat to
• 48:27
  Speaker 8: the American people, to our economy and to our democracy.
• 48:30
  Speaker 8: And that Joe Biden, as you're seeing every single day,
• 48:32
  Speaker 8: is somebody who wakes up every single day fighting relentlessly
• 48:35
  Speaker 8: for the American people. So the president's going to be
• 48:37
  Speaker 8: ready and the campaign is certainly going to be ready.
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: My tip is get that COVID vaccine booster like pretty soon,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: you know, because you don't want to get sick from
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: that fucker again.
• 48:46
  Speaker 8: Exactly.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: Trump has repeatedly tried to suggest that. in the wake
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: of his verdict that his legal problems will actually help
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: him with black voters. He has suggested that black voters
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: relate to his mugshot. He said that repeatedly. Yesterday, his son,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump Jr., posted a photo of George Floyd with
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: the text, Democrats, and then said, quote, I don't know
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: how you can support a felon. The suggestion being that
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Democrats who say that Donald Trump being an unrepentant felon
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: makes him unqualified for the presidency is somehow compared to
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: not wanting George Floyd to be murdered by police, I guess,
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: is what they're trying to get at. Marjorie Taylor Greene
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: recently said that, quote, Democrats are still worshiping convicted felon
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: George Floyd. All of this strikes me as shockingly cynical
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: and racist messaging. But I was wondering if you guys
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: are seeing data or hearing from voters directly about these
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: kind of comments from President Trump and if you have
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: a response to Marjorie Taylor Greene or Don Jr.
• 49:51
  Speaker 8: I certainly don't have a response for them. I think
• 49:53
  Speaker 8: my response to the Trump campaign's entire outreach strategy here,
• 49:57
  Speaker 8: it's ridiculous.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: It's offensive. It is, in fact, racist.
• 50:00
  Speaker 8: The idea that you're going to associate black people with
• 50:03
  Speaker 8: criminality as the basis of your outreach strategy is just
• 50:05
  Speaker 8: abhorrently racist. But frankly, it's in line with who their
• 50:09
  Speaker 8: candidate is, who he's been his entire life. This is
• 50:12
  Speaker 8: a man who stepped into public life in many ways
• 50:14
  Speaker 8: by falsely accusing the Central Park Five and continue to
• 50:18
  Speaker 8: do so even after we knew them to be the
• 50:19
  Speaker 8: exonerated five. This is a person who, as you very
• 50:22
  Speaker 8: well know, stepped into the political mainstream by taking birtherism
• 50:26
  Speaker 8: and bringing it mainstream. And then this is a person who,
• 50:29
  Speaker 8: when he was in power, like his entire policy agenda
• 50:33
  Speaker 8: was was incredibly racist, right?
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Like his tax policy, for example, gave.
• 50:37
  Speaker 8: Double the benefit to the typical white household than it
• 50:40
  Speaker 8: did the typical black household. This is a person who
• 50:43
  Speaker 8: fumbled the bag on the COVID response, which left black
• 50:45
  Speaker 8: people disproportionately dead, left black businesses disproportionately shuttered. So it's
• 50:48
  Speaker 8: no surprise that they can't figure out an intelligent way
• 50:52
  Speaker 8: to actually communicate with black voters as we head into 2024.
• 50:56
  Speaker 8: I think the way that you can and should is
• 50:57
  Speaker 8: the way that Joe Biden is doing it, right? Which
• 50:59
  Speaker 8: is reminding people of what you've actually done, making promises
• 51:02
  Speaker 8: and keeping them.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 51:03
  Speaker 8: And so things like black wealth increasing by 60 percent
• 51:06
  Speaker 8: since before the pandemic, record low black unemployment during the
• 51:10
  Speaker 8: first term of this administration, black child poverty cut in
• 51:13
  Speaker 8: half through the child tax credit, which is something that
• 51:15
  Speaker 8: we're bringing back since MAGA Republicans cut it out in
• 51:19
  Speaker 8: the work that we're continue to do into a second term.
• 51:21
  Speaker 8: That's how you earn the respect and earn the votes
• 51:24
  Speaker 8: of black voters. That's what this campaign is actually doing.
• 51:27
  Speaker 8: It's certainly not what the Trump campaign is doing.
• 51:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: Black women on the Supreme Court. the vice president. Final question. Yesterday,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: President Biden announced an executive order that will allow him
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: to effectively shut down the southern border after a certain
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: number of migrants cross or seek asylum. He got some
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: pretty quick blowback from progressives like Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, who
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: argued that the EO was modeled after Trump's immigration policies.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: I wonder if you have a response to that and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: if you guys are worried that this executive order could
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: further anger progressives who maybe are frustrated about other issues
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: like Gaza or demotivate the Democratic base at a time
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: when we're trying to bring it together going into this election?
• 52:07
  Speaker 8: No, listen, I think what the American people are going
• 52:08
  Speaker 8: to see, what progressives are going to see, what all
• 52:10
  Speaker 8: voters are going to see is a president who takes
• 52:13
  Speaker 8: seriously his responsibility as the president of the United States, right?
• 52:16
  Speaker 8: As a president who worked relentlessly towards a bipartisan border
• 52:20
  Speaker 8: security deal, one that was on the table, that was
• 52:22
  Speaker 8: ready to go until Donald Trump came along and blew
• 52:25
  Speaker 8: it up and said, blame me. So we will continue
• 52:28
  Speaker 8: to do that. We will continue to blame him on
• 52:29
  Speaker 8: this issue. The president himself remains committed to bipartisan comprehensive
• 52:35
  Speaker 8: immigration reform that not only addresses the border, but treats
• 52:38
  Speaker 8: people here humanely with the dignity and decency that they
• 52:41
  Speaker 8: deserve as human beings, that provides for a pathway to citizenship.
• 52:45
  Speaker 8: All of that stands directly in contrast to what we
• 52:48
  Speaker 8: know our opponent is going to do. This is somebody
• 52:49
  Speaker 8: who is not actually interested in border security, certainly not
• 52:52
  Speaker 8: interested in bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform. This is somebody who
• 52:56
  Speaker 8: was telling us out on the stump every single day
• 52:59
  Speaker 8: what he wants to do. He wants to erect mass
• 53:01
  Speaker 8: deportation camps. He wants to bring back family separation, separating
• 53:04
  Speaker 8: kids from their mothers. He wants to end birthright citizenship,
• 53:08
  Speaker 8: something that's been foundational to the U.S. Constitution going back
• 53:11
  Speaker 8: to Reconstruction. So the contrast is pretty clear here. It's
• 53:14
  Speaker 8: between a president who is fighting relentlessly for solutions and
• 53:17
  Speaker 8: a chaos agent in Donald Trump who only cares about
• 53:19
  Speaker 8: his own personal self-interest.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Well said. Michael Siler, thanks for doing the show. Good
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: luck with that debate prep, man. My experience is presidents
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: don't love doing it. You get kind of used to
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: everyone standing up when you walk in the room after
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: a couple months in the job, and all of a
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: sudden you're at some debate prep, and someone's telling you
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: your answer sucks, and Barack Obama's like, get out of
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: my face. I have better things to do than talk
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: to you, David Axelrod, or whoever. But I'm very excited
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: to see how this goes, and root for you guys. Thanks, man.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: We're looking forward to it. Thanks for having me. Thanks
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: again to DCU for being here. Thanks again to Michael Tyler.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: And we'll talk to you guys on Friday.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: Take care, everybody.
• 54:01
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