Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 499: Chemical engineer to Consulting. Founder, low numbers. 322 GRE, Software engineer

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MBA Wire Taps 499: Chemical engineer to Consulting. Founder, low numbers. 322 GRE, Software engineer · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Brent Nagamine, Director of admission at the Foster School of Business. And you're listening to the Clear Admit Podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker B: Fantastic. Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, July 6, 2026. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. How are things, Alex?
• 0:35
  Speaker A: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 0:36
  Speaker B: So I guess most of our listeners are coming off the July 4th holiday weekend, if they're in the US or Americans who's maybe celebrated abroad. But otherwise there's a lot to get through this week. We continue to have some great content coming out on the website, including admissions director, Q and A's from Harvard, Georgetown and uncle. We've got a real human alum who's over at Pepsi, an admissions tip, and of course, the candidates that you picked to discuss. But before we get into that, Alex, I wanted to just remind people that this is the 499th episode of the Clear Admit podcast. And that means next Monday's show will be number 500. I know that our producer Dennis is working up some special content and tricks for the occasion and I cannot wait. But in the meantime, Alex, what's going on this week?
• 1:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, obviously the World Cup's top of mind for everybody, even though applying to business school. So, so, so yeah, by the time this as England will have taken on Mexico in Mexico, so hopefully we beat.
• 1:35
  Speaker B: Oh wow.
• 1:37
  Speaker A: But we'll see. I think, you know, despite my hesitations so far, it's been a pretty fantastic tournament. So, so, yeah. Okay. So you mean business school admissions. Yeah, it's quiet in as much as we've clearly so of turn the page from last season, there will be a little bit more, I anticipate a little bit more waitlist activity, but we're pretty much finalized for last season in terms of this season. We're starting to see schools announcing deadlines, announcing essay topics, etc. Etc. So clearly we're looking forward now to those early rounds, first round application deadlines which will come about in the next couple of months. So September will be very busy.
• 2:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, agreed. And actually that's a perfect segue because we've been running that column every week called the Weekly. Yeah, yeah. And I don't, you know, and obviously I don't follow the World cup as closely as you, but I also know the US Is going to have to play Belgium, but maybe between now and when this airs or, you know, or the day this airs. So we'll see if next week when we connect to record, if both of our Teams are still alive. We'll see. But in any event, what I was going to say is that we've been publishing this weekly refresh on the website that goes through which schools have released their essay topics. We actually analyze every school's essay questions in these in depth posts every year. It's actually one of the more popular pieces of content on the site. So in the last week, we published essay topic and video question analyses for Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, nyu, Stern, Wharton. We also shared deadlines from Yale, Stern, Ross, Stanford, and posted recommendation questions which aren't always easy to get at. So some schools don't necessarily share the rec questions. You know, your only recommender sees them, but we have access to those. We post them on the site as well. So definitely check out that weekly refresh article on the site as a great way to kind of stay on top of what's happening and which schools have announced what.
• 3:42
  Speaker A: Very good.
• 3:44
  Speaker B: We also speaking of that, we've got our events coming up in July. So on July 16th at 10:00am Central European Time, we're going to do a kind of AMA with an immigration lawyer and some international students who are current MBA students, just to talk about what is it like for an international candidate to go through the process of getting a visa or potentially even to stay in the United States and work. So we'll get into all of that and then that's sort of the kickoff and we go from there. July 21, 22, 23, 28 and 29, we're having our essay workshop series where we'll talk essays, video questions, and really the nuts and bolts of admissions strategy. Uh, we've got amazing school admissions directors lined up to join us for that. Usually it's about four or five schools per event. And you know, looking at the list, I'm seeing a lot of the very top schools from, you know, Berkeley and Chicago to, oh, gosh, you know, Wharton and INSEAD and LBs. I mean, it's just, it's a long list of schools, Columbia, et cetera. So join us for Those go to clearbit.com events and you can sign up otherwise. Alex, we did an admissions tip this past week about volunteer experience. And it's interesting because the piece sort of talks about why this stuff matters and it talks about how these activities and volunteer experience in particular can separate you from the pack. It also talks a little bit about how this kind of thing can be good for young or old applicants, in the sense that if you're really young and maybe you haven't had quite as much professional Experience. Having a really dedicated volunteer experience that you've been pursuing over the years could be a source for kind of leadership anecdotes or maybe even a letter of recommendation. And then similarly with older applicants, it can be a way to signal that you're someone who gets active in your community and that you would be an active member of the MBA community. So there's a lot of good advice in this article about how to position that stuff, but. And I think you had a hand in that way back when it was put together. But that's up on the site and you and I, there's a video that accompanies it as well that you and I did.
• 5:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think volunteer experience is really important and I think it surprises folks when they first start looking at the MBA admissions process that this does become quite important. I wouldn't say that it's fundamental to a business school application. You can certainly apply to business schools without any volunteer experience and because you've got really strong work experience and academic experience, goals, etc. Etc. Be very successful. But what I think volunteer experience can do do is differentiate you. Right. So if you have all. The core fundamental ingredient to the MBA application is often things like what you do in your additional time that help separate you from other really well qualified candidates. So I would sort of think about it in that regard. The other thing I'd say very quickly is when people say, well, what sort of volunteer experience should I pursue? Pursue something about which you, you're passionate. Don't just do volunteer experience because you know it's a good thing to do, etc. Etc. Find something that you're truly passionate, that you'll commit to and enjoy that experience as you are participating.
• 7:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, I could not agree more. And actually in the article there's a whole section that's, that has a kind of subtitle that's called Passion and it talks about the importance of picking something or, you know, being able to demonstrate to the committee that you've got passion for something. So. So you're spot on there. Yeah, so read that. If you're applying to business school, obviously really critical advice to take in otherwise. Alex, you know, we're now really off to the races with our admissions director Q and A's. This is where Lauren on our team catches up with admissions directors at top business schools and asks them lots of different questions. So I'm going to start with Harvard Business School. So Rupal Ghadia, who's the admissions director over there, did hers recently and one of the things that we asked her is we have this question that says conversations about MBA value often center on jobs, salaries, and roi. What are some of the other ways students benefit from the MBA experience that may be harder to quantify upfront? And she says, I actually gave a great answer. She said one of the most valuable benefits of the HBS experience is the development of judgment. At hbs, we help students build the confidence to navigate complex decisions when the stakes are real and the information is incomplete. We do not teach our MBA students what to think. Instead, through the case method and interaction with classmates, faculty, and leaders from around the world, students learn how to weigh competing perspectives, make decisions amid uncertainty, and understand the human consequences of those decisions. We think of leadership as a muscle that is strengthened through practice, and the case method gives students the opportunity to build that muscle every day. So I thought that was obviously compelling argument for the case method at hbs, but also just an interesting way to think about something you get out of an MBA that's maybe a little less easy to quantify.
• 8:55
  Speaker A: I think that's absolutely fantastic. By summarizing with the term judgment, it really aligns with the future trajectory of how MBAs are going to be perceived in the marketplace. Judgment is going to be such a super important. I guess skill is the right term. I don't know. But judgment is going to become more and more important, especially as we're managing machines.
• 9:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I could not agree more now because I know everyone likes the admissions sort of tidbits in these Q and A's. I also pulled another quote from her. We asked about the interview process, and here's what Rupal had to say. She said, because the interview is a conversation about you, it's tailored to your experiences and application. We may discuss your professional experience, leadership examples, career aspirations, or topics raised elsewhere in your application. Through this conversation, we hope to learn more about what has shaped you, how you lead, and the impact you hope to make in the organizations and communities you plan to serve. Also, I'll just paraphrase, she talks a lot about how when you get an interview and the person on their admissions committee that ultimately interviews you, that person has spent a lot of time with your file and has read it right before you interview again, just to make sure that they're really diving in and not. It's not a surface kind of interview. And so you got to be ready for an HBS interview because it's. It's a peeling of the onion. It's definitely way deeper than a kind of, oh, tell me about yourself. What's your resume because they already have. Have all that. Have read it and know a lot about you.
• 10:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. They're one of the few schools that adopt a non blind interview and there are real advantages of doing that, I think, in terms of. Of for schools to really understand the candidate as expressed. I also think it puts a little bit more work on the admissions office at Harvard in order to do that. So kudos for them for doing that. They're not the only school that does this, but they're one of the few schools that does non blind interviews.
• 10:59
  Speaker B: Yeah. And it is kind of fascinating because you hear both sides of the argument because I've talked to some admissions deans who are like, we purposely do blind. And the person that sits down with you knows nothing about.
• 11:08
  Speaker A: Should I tell you what that's called, Greg? Saying it's called confirmation bias.
• 11:13
  Speaker B: Yeah. Right. Because they're.
• 11:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, we all suffer from it. So. So yeah, we have not. We have blind interviews. So I'm going to justify exactly why that makes sense. Right. But I think in the grand scheme of things, there's one thing that's really clear. Non blind interviews, I mean. Yeah. Non blind interviews put more pressure on the admissions office to do more research before they conduct the interview, etc. Right. So, yeah, so there's cost component to doing it that way and I would, I would therefore conflate that to. Actually, it's probably a better process.
• 11:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 11:53
  Speaker A: But anyway, that's my opinion. You, you wrote an opinion piece this week. I've got an opinion on these interviews.
• 12:00
  Speaker B: Yeah. We'll see how the opinion piece lands. We'll talk about more. More about that next week, I guess. But I think, you know. Yeah, it's just an interesting. This also just underlines you got to know when you go to an interview, what kind of interview you're having.
• 12:11
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 12:11
  Speaker B: Because if you go into HBS thinking you're just going to talk about stuff and can repeat the same stories that you put in your essays, you're going to be rudely awakened. So in any.
• 12:20
  Speaker A: Again, again, as long as you know who you are in your why you've done things and what you've done, etc. Etc. You should really enjoy the HBS interview, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And as long as you know how you pitched yourself in in the. In in the essays and the application. So. So it's not like you got to learn rocket science to prepare for an interview. You just got to know yourself.
• 12:41
  Speaker B: Yes. Know thyself. Yes. So. So anyway, so we also. So that's the hbs. There's obviously, you know, pages of interview content from, from hbs. So go on the website and read that. Admissions director, Q and A. But we also caught up with Ann Kililby at Georgetown McDonough. Ann is the most lovely person. She's just terrific. Every time I hang out with her, I have a good time. She's. We asked her this question that I thought was interesting, which is, you know, again, the kind of ROI question. And her answer also merited kind of inclusion here. So we asked, you know, like, what, what is, you know, what are things that, you know, how do students benefit that are less quantifiable, at least up front? And she said an MBA is valuable not only because of the job, that it helps you secure immediately after graduation, but because it equips you with skills that will serve you throughout your career. As a general management degree, it builds capabilities that transfer across industries, functions and leadership roles. Specifically at Georgetown, I would highlight our power skills. Students gain both technical competencies such as data analysis and AI literacy, and also the human power skills that effective leaders need, like critical thinking, empathy and collaboration. So kind of reinforcing some of what we heard earlier from the admissions director at hbs. But I think these are really good points.
• 13:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
• 13:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And then last but not least, we caught up with Katie Radal, who is the admissions director over at Uncle Kenan Flagler. And she has a kind of storied past in our industry because she used to be at mit and she arrived at, I want to say she's been at unc, oh gosh, for maybe we're going to come up maybe a year and a half now, maybe two years. So she's newer in this role at unc, but a lot of experience in the space. And that shows in her answers in the Q and A. But we asked, what's one aspect of your MBA program that you wish applicants knew more about? And so she, in talking about unc, she says our location. When people think about top MBA programs, they often focus on schools in major cities. But UNC Kenan Flagler sits in the heart of one of the most dynamic regions in the U.S. chapel Hill offers an incredible quality of life and a close knit university centered community. While the Research Triangle gives students access to more than 7,000 companies across industries like healthcare, tech, life sciences, consulting and finance. And as someone who spends a lot of time on the road, I appreciate that our airport keeps adding direct flights to key business hubs. It really is the best of both worlds. A connected, growing region with the charm and community of a college town. So definitely some interesting comments about Chapel Hill. And I mean, I think when you look at the statistics, I was really surprised when I was going there. Not so long ago, I was able to get a direct flight from London to Chapel Hill to the. I think it's the rally Durham Chapel Hill airport. So she's right about all these direct flights and I think that's because of all these companies that are there.
• 15:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And frankly, location is super, super important, as we know and we talk about quite a lot on this show.
• 15:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. And then just to be complete here, I did also I have a quote from her about this sort of question about ways that students benefit from the MBA experience that are harder to quantify. And she said the relationships our students make at UNC Kenan Flagler are significant to their experiences and provide lifelong roi. Ask our alumni what they value most years after graduation and many won't start with their first post MBA job. They'll talk about the classmates who became lifelong friends, trusted advisors, business partners, and members of their personal support network. Those relationships often end up being one of the most enduring parts of the MBA experience. So, yeah, so just. I'm so glad we added that question this year because it's getting a lot of good responses.
• 16:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. And again, this one doesn't surprise me at all because when you're going to a top business school like Kenan Flagler, they've done all this sort of filtering and they've put you in a classroom of really high quality colleagues, et cetera, et cetera, who become, as they point out, potentially lifelong friends, lifelong sort of business partners, etc. Etc. So. So, yeah, no, I think, you know, the networks and the connections that you make at top business schools are super powerful. And even myself not having gone to a top business school, but worked at one, I mean, the relationships I developed have really completely shaped my career.
• 17:14
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, agreed. And I think one little kind of shout out to kind of slightly smaller programs here and in, in places like Chapel Hill. And we talk about this sometimes on the show, but they really are able to foster community. And I think obviously UNC has this new building, so there's a lot, definitely a lot going on there, which is great. One last thing before we talk about our candidates this week is we have a real human alum who went to Yale. Her name is Brianna and we profiled her on the website. I think, because there was only one this week, we might be. I need to ask Lauren on our team, but I think we're kind of phasing out that series for the year and then it'll come back next spring. I think we've profiled dozens and dozens of alums. I love that series, but. So Brianna went to Yale. She's currently a finance associate manager at PepsiCo. She listed her hometown as Dallas and Chicago, so I guess she probably split her childhood and early years across those two. She went to Notre Dame where she studied computer engineering as an undergraduate and then obviously has her MBA from Yale. And she actually did a science business concentration. And it sounds like before business school she was working as a consultant in a kind of custom software development consultancy. So big tech kind of background in terms of her computer engineering undergrad. But now she's at Pepsi working in consumer packaged goods and kind of on the finance side. But we asked her just tons of questions. But the one I wanted to call out here is we asked her if she had any advice that she wished she had been given during her mba. And she said, one piece of advice I wish I had been given was to choose classes based on what truly interests and excites you rather than what you think you should be taking. Looking back at the classes where I followed my curiosity. Sorry, looking back, the classes where I followed my curiosity taught me the most, introduced me to new ways of thinking and ended up being far more impactful than the ones I selected just because they felt practical or expected. So that's an interesting take. I mean, I'm trying to think back to my days in business school. And it is true, I remember a lot of the classes that I took, not on a whim, but that just because I read the description, they seemed really interesting and not necessarily 100% aligned with my kind of career plan, but those often were the more memorable ones. So I kind of understand what she's saying.
• 19:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, but that doesn't surprise me, right? These sorts of classes, you show up, you pay attention and you engage because you're really curious. So, you know, not. Not there's anything wrong with the fundamentals of the curriculum in the MBA program. But there are classes that are fundamental that you just have to know and you have to learn, etc. Etc. But it's not necessarily the most sort of engaging and interesting stuff. But, yeah, absolutely, those classes stimulate your curiosity. You will remember, yeah, I had a
• 20:09
  Speaker B: great class at Wharton called Entrepreneurial Marketing with Len Lodish, and that that always stood out to me and I took it kind of on a whim. I didn't know for sure at that point that I wanted to even be an entrepreneur. But whereas, you know, the core course in cost accounting, I don't remember a lot of that. But I mean, you know, so in any event. All right, so I guess, Alex, we can probably move into our candidates. I did want to remind people, if you want to write to Alex or me, you can just email us@infoearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps and we will get back to you. Alex. Anything else before we talk about the candidates you've picked?
• 20:44
  Speaker A: Let's get going.
• 20:45
  Speaker B: All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this year comes from an apply wire entry on the site. This person wants to start business school in the fall of 27. They've got four, five schools that they're considering at this stage. Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Stern and Darden. So very east coast, kind of almost Mid Atlantic, northeast centric. And they have been working pre MBA in the defense industry as an engineer. They studied chemical engineering at both the bachelor's and master's level. They have a 3.44 in undergrad and a 3.4 in that chemical engineering master's degree. They've been working for three years located in New Jersey. They would love to land in New York, hence that list of schools, I guess. They also currently mentor entry level engineers. And they say in their note to us, they say that they're worried about the transition from a more engineering field to consulting, which is their target, and how the master impacts their admissions odds as well. So Alex, what do you think?
• 21:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think this is a really good pivot. Not a pivot that I would be necessarily concerned with. And I'm a big believer that when you marry these sort of an engineering type undergrad and experience with an MBA training on top of that, you can become a super well rounded, really impactful potential employee, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't think there should be much concern with the pivot is the point here. This pivot makes a lot, a lot of sense and chemical engineering is notoriously a difficult degree. So I'm not so worried about the slightly lower than average gpa. And obviously the masters is very notable in terms of the higher gpa. And again, I wouldn't worry. There's no concern having taken a master's and then doing an MBA because they're very different disciplines and so forth. So the area. So we don't really know so much about that real impact at work, etc. Etc assuming that they've done well and I think they've talked about mentoring and various other things. So they've potentially taken on a bit of leadership too. So that's very good. If they can show real impact and real growth at work and they can show some, you know, additional activity outside of work. As we've talked a lot about volunteer experiences already on this show and so forth, that that would be very helpful if they could do all that. I would say, you know, they need to be targeting some of the very best schools. Why not? The numbers are quite decent and so forth. The one thing that puzzles me a little bit is their, their goals, their post MBA goals. So going into consulting directly afterwards makes a lot of sense. Right. So you do chemical engineering, you work as an engineer, you get an mba, you do consulting work to get broader sort of applied experience based off of what you've learned in the mba. But their longer term goal, which I think they really need to think about long and hard and anchor that sort of their applications around, is to go into leadership in anything that deals with the fda. Right. So food, cosmetics, pharmaceuticals is what they talked about and I'm wondering what's triggered that because their work experience to date is in the defense industry. So if they can explain that really well, that would be quite important, I think. Otherwise I would have assumed that their longer term goal would be to go into leadership within the defense industry and that would align directly with their experience to date. So would have been more palatable for the adcom.
• 24:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, that is an interesting. So I think I failed to mention also their GMAT score which is 675. So that's like a 720, 730 on the old scale. Good score. The other thing that struck me, so, I mean I like the goal of consulting like you said, in the short term makes a lot of sense for an engineer. But yeah, I would love some connective tissue between that and why FDA related Fortune 500 management like you say. It did strike me though that they do some tutoring of high school and early college students. They've been doing that since they finished their bachelor's. They also did their master's part time. They have some hobbies and interests, like they rock climb and they're a photographer, so they tick a lot of boxes. One of the things that struck me when I looked at this profile, thinking, you know, okay, engineer, good, good work experience. They say that they have a recommender, what their boss is willing to write for them, that they've been increasingly challenged at Work with harder and harder projects. And so one of the things that struck me was this school list. I mean I don't see Wharton, I don't see Harvard. I mean they want to stay in. I know they want to be in New York afterwards. Right. So those schools would both make sense. But they're not here. And I wonder, are they self selecting out or is it that they are drawn to something else? Because if you look at Stern, Darden, Tuck and Johnson, you could say, oh, these are smaller, kind of close knit. But Columbia's on their list. That's a bigger school.
• 26:21
  Speaker A: And Sloan's.
• 26:23
  Speaker B: Oh yeah, Sloan's not there either.
• 26:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, not there either. Obviously they'd be more engineer focused and they're slightly smaller than some of their M7 peers. So. Yeah, and I agree with, with that maybe they're not reaching high enough.
• 26:37
  Speaker B: Yeah. So I mean not to say that their numbers are off the charts, but I just, I like that 388 in their masters in Chemical Engineering that they did while working, you know, GMAT is in the ballpark. GPA definitely in the ballpark. So I don't know if I were them, I would take a flyer on one or two more M7 and see where the chips fall. They could always apply to some additional schools in the second round if they fall short of those top goals because they're not going to be overrepresented. We know this is actually a pretty good time to be applying to business school for domestic candidates. So in any event, I think they tick a lot of the boxes and yeah, I'm not worried about some of the things that they seem to be worried about in terms of the transition. So in any event, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Yeah, just think about those goals in the long term and how they can connect them. But they should be in good shape. Let's move on and talk about WireTaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week also comes from an ApplyWire entry. This candidate wants to start school in the fall of 27. They have three schools on the list. Harvard, MIT and Stanford. This candidate is located in Dubai. I think they originally are from Pakistan. Maybe that's what it looks like here. And they used to work for Carney, which is a consulting firm. Now they're kind of a founder in a boutique financial consulting firm. They've got six years of work experience. They've actually founded a couple of companies in their over the course of their work experience. Their GPA is a 2.93 and they mentioned they know that is a weakness. It's the top, it is from the top business undergraduate business school in Pakistan but they know it's a weakness. Their GRE is a 301. They also know that's a weakness and they said it's still in progress and they're currently going to retake, hoping to get they say into the 315 to 320 range with a strong quant score to offset the academic profile. Post MBA goal is to scale into senior operating or founder roles in fintech and financial financial services building on their existing consulting and startup background. So Alex, what do you make of this candidate?
• 28:51
  Speaker A: I mean I think that consulting and startup background is probably what's going to help them sort of stand out a little bit and you know, presumably their startup experience, the founder experience since undergrad because they founded a business also during undergrad. Right. But since undergrad's been impactful and so on and so forth. So assuming all that's in play, that'll help them. But I'm very nervous about their numbers as you point out, their GPA is going to be below average. I think it's from the top school in Pakistan. But nevertheless that's a bit of an early warning sort of issue and maybe that was compromised a little bit by spending too much time on the startup business focusing less on, on academics and that might well be the case and they can make a case for that. But then that talks to the, the adcom. ADCOM will be like well what's your commitment to academics when you come here? Maybe you'll just decide to start a business over here and, and not get engaged. So, so however they couch that they've got to be quite careful but you know, to, to help compensate they need a much better GRE score than their, their they're planning to hopefully get. 315 to 320 is not going to mitigate a lower GPA. The schools they're targeting the average GRE scores, the mean GRE scores are going to be 328, 330 somewhere around there and they need to score above that if they're using the GRE to help mitigate. So despite the fact that I truly believe they're probably a really interesting candidate based off of their professional experiences and their clearly very talented based off of what they've done, their numbers are really going to be a drag on their applications at this point.
• 30:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, And I mean, you know, I like the career goals and like you say, I love the work experience. This is a talented person. But I feel like. So two things have to happen. As you say, they've got to retake the gre, which they're planning to do, and they need to get it up into the above the average at these top schools. Remember, I'm just reminding everyone they're applying to Harvard, MIT and Stanford. And so what I think the other thing they absolutely have to do is they need to apply to some other schools because even if they were to get a 340 on the GRE like something astronomical, there's no guarantee they're going to get into Harvard, Stanford or MIT because there still is this low GPA issue. I think there are a number of reasons why it may not work out. Right. So they need to think about whether there are other schools that could help them achieve their goals. Clearly there are. And so I don't know whether that's a. It depends where they want to be. They claim they want to be in the US afterwards, so they might want to just continue to look at top 16 US programs because these numbers make it a real challenge. So I just want to put that out there and maybe they will apply to others. They just wanted our take on where they stand at these top schools. But hopefully this helps them. They should go and really buckle down on the GRE for now.
• 32:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. And if they do decide that they're going to apply to other schools, they need to do that in the first round, not wait to see the results from these programs in the first round and apply in the second round. They want an upfront and nice spread of schools, I would reckon.
• 32:16
  Speaker B: I agree they could be counted as somewhat overrepresented. So yeah, they need to get it all in in the first round. They'll probably get wait listed if anything, at some of these schools because of the numbers. And so, yeah, getting started early would be smart.
• 32:28
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: Anyway, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Hopefully this advice is useful. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our third candidate this week. Again, it comes from an apply wire entry, which I think is another sign that we're heading into the new season because we've got three candidates and no more decision wire entries. But this person's got 21 schools on the list and I'm not going to read them out, but essentially it's sort of a smattering of the US top 16 and then, you know, you've got some HEC, Paris, ESA in Seattle, BS except, etc. So there's some, you know, European Schools, including Cambridge and stuff. So it's a mix of all the sort of, you know, it's 21 top schools in the world. Essentially, you could argue this person's been working in a kind of quantitative role, software engineer at a top investment bank. Now, after business school, they don't seem to know exactly what they want to do. They indicate consulting, they indicate finance and they indicate technology and they list company under each of those. So they haven't yet decided. GRE is a 322. The GPA is a 7.45. This is out of India. They've got three years of work experience and they would love to land either in the us, the UK or the Middle east after business school. This candidate is a female candidate. She's 24 years old. She indicates that her 7.5 undergrad was from a Tier 1 Indian in college and that she was very active in sports as a student. So she was, you know, swimming at the national level, she won medals. She also was playing badminton. And she does, looking back, think that some of her kind of sports activities may have, you know, kind of taken away from the academics. So she has an explanation there. She was the captain of the battle team and sportsman of the year, Sportswoman of the year for her college. So, you know, there was a lot going on and as we know, out of India, a 7.5 from a tier one university. That's not the end of the world typically. So in any event that's kind of her background. I mean, obviously there's some other things here too. You know, she was very involved. There was an incubator on her campus as an undergrad and you know, again, she's got to three years of work experience. She doesn't get into, I didn't see too much about outside activities, but obviously she's a sports, you know, gov sports and was very, very active as an undergrad, so I think that'll translate. But Alex, what do you make of this candidate?
• 34:59
  Speaker A: I mean, I think this again could potentially be a very strong candidate, but they really need to sort of settle down a little bit and figure out exactly what they want to do, especially with the mba. So for instance, they don't have any geographic preference, uk, US or Middle East. They don't have any school preference. They've listed, I don't know, 25 schools or something like that and they've not expressed any post MBA goals. And these are all symptoms of perhaps a candidate that's a little earlier in their career and hasn't really thought through this pathway and so on and so forth. And yeah, they've got three years of experience, so we'll see. You know, it's typically candidates, like I say, at the beginning, the earliest stage of their career that have less focus goals. But I would really suggest that she spends a lot of time over the next month thinking through what is the ideal scenario for her. That's still realistic, but it's ambitious, et cetera, et cetera, and think through that, talk to folks that are in those roles, really learn, because that will will then help her develop a much more cogent application for the schools that she ultimately ends up targeting, hopefully only 5 or 6 instead of 15 or 20, and will serve her really well. The other thing that I would suggest that she does is have one more go at the gre. It's an okay score, but again, for some of the schools on her list, it'll be below the median. If she thinks there's scope for improvement, why not take that opportunity? But other than that, you know, she's obviously been very involved, especially sports wise, etc. Etc. She's now at a top investment bank, so. So she has to have done well. But I think she just needs to really take a step back a little bit and develop the plan.
• 37:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, I could not agree more. Now there's something interesting here too, which is that. But I think like you said, she just needs to figure out where does she want to be. And I just recorded a podcast the other day. I think it's going to air. It'll probably be another week or two before it's ready. But I recorded a podcast with Camilla DeWitt, who works at GMAC but also used to be head of Careers and Admissions at esade. Just a font of knowledge on kind of careers and career goals and admissions. And one of the things we talked about was just how people, they often have it sort of backwards. They like first come up with a list of schools and kind of start the application process and then they have to think about, oh, what are my career plans? And answer these essay questions, when in reality it should be the other way around. You should already think about what is it that you want to do and that should drive your school list and how you approach the whole process. So I have a feeling this is someone who's like, oh, I want to get an mba. I know it's a good thing to do, but hasn't figured out, well, what is it I want to do afterwards.
• 38:00
  Speaker A: It's basically a passport to the world, right?
• 38:02
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 38:03
  Speaker A: Getting the MBA for this candidate. Right. It gives me the, gives them the opportunity to consider uk, us, Middle East. But now focus. Where do you want to be and what do you want to be doing?
• 38:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, and I was just thinking about, well, she has US UK Middle east. So maybe it's like, well, who's president in the us? Are bombs falling in the Middle east or is, you know, the uk? Like, is there a Prime Minister or not? So maybe she's trying to hedge, hedge her bets about where to be. But in any event, no, I'd be good. It'd be really helpful for her to kind of narrow that focus. So. And then the last thing I will say on her is she mentioned she really wants to know if she can get scholarship and that's where your advice on the GRE is really important because 322 is a great score. But if she gets up to 28 or 330, more money will come her way. So definitely retake it. Sounds like she's willing to and thinks she could do better. So she should take it again. Yeah, I think that's about it on that one, Alex. I want to thank her for sharing her profile. And yeah, Alex, thanks for picking these out. It's always fun this time of year where we get into talking all apply wire. But yeah, we'll do it next week for our 500th episode. I can't wait.
• 39:10
  Speaker A: Very good. Stay safe everyone. Take care. Of.