Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / Mailbag: Are Max Clark, Riley Greene worthy of extensions?

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Mailbag: Are Max Clark, Riley Greene worthy of extensions? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:12
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network Detroit Tiger's podcast. I'm Karen Steckley
0:16
Speaker 1: with me as always a man who is incapable.
0:19
Speaker 2: Of being on do not disturb mode. He is Cody Stepnaggan.
0:22
Speaker 2: How are we doing?
0:23
Speaker 3: Oh that's a little too true. It's a little too
0:26
Speaker 3: close to home in this job. What's up everybody?
0:31
Speaker 1: Obviously no new Tigers actions, so we decided we talked
0:35
Speaker 1: about a few things. We asked for some questions on
0:38
Speaker 1: X and you know, some good thought exercises, and again
0:40
Speaker 1: I like, I like doing these for if nothing else,
0:43
Speaker 1: because it gives us a sense, Cody of where the
0:47
Speaker 1: fan base's mind is at, you know what I mean. So,
0:50
Speaker 1: uh So we'll get into some of that, but I
0:52
Speaker 1: did want to start out with uh with this.
0:56
Speaker 2: You know, one of the.
0:58
Speaker 1: Big losses at the trade line, Cody was Trek Schooble
1:02
Speaker 1: not beyond the Tigers. And as it comes to us,
1:04
Speaker 1: Terrek Schooble not beyond the Tigers for us to talk about.
1:07
Speaker 1: I like talking about Trek Schooble. You guys liked it
1:10
Speaker 1: when we talked about Trek Schooble, and so we haven't
1:12
Speaker 1: had a chance to do it in a second, so
1:14
Speaker 1: I thought, why don't we do a little Trek schoobl update,
1:17
Speaker 1: you know, like well, just a little little check in
1:20
Speaker 1: on Tarrek uh. So in case you're curious, he has
1:23
Speaker 1: made three starts for the Dodgers. He is zero and
1:26
Speaker 1: two with a three one eight e R. He's pitched
1:28
Speaker 1: seventeen innings. Come you know, coming off a game in
1:32
Speaker 1: which he pitched one hundred and nine pitches Cody, I
1:35
Speaker 1: thought that was a typo at first. UH and and
1:39
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of getting acclimated to I guess
1:42
Speaker 1: southern California and the and the and what it means
1:45
Speaker 1: to be a Dodger. I love those kind of like
1:48
Speaker 1: little little clips of him just kind of going around
1:51
Speaker 1: and you know, doing it, taking in everything new. That
1:53
Speaker 1: is kind of interesting to me as such a routine guy,
1:56
Speaker 1: just seeing how he's adapting to doing stuff in LA.
1:59
Speaker 1: But he was also in the news because, you know, allegedly,
2:04
Speaker 1: reportedly sources say blah blah blah, it seems like he's
2:08
Speaker 1: motivated to uh to sign before the December one. It's
2:14
Speaker 1: collective barding agreement expiration, so we don't even get the
2:20
Speaker 1: I'm not going to miss an opportunity to talk about
2:22
Speaker 1: a Trek Schooble contract extension or a free agency. We
2:26
Speaker 1: just got that in the news this week, so I
2:27
Speaker 1: thought we should talk about it any.
2:29
Speaker 3: Actually, I can confirm that report the sources my brain.
2:33
Speaker 3: Of course, Trek Scougel, who is aspiring to be the
2:36
Speaker 3: highest paid pitcher ever, is going to want to sign
2:39
Speaker 3: before the lockout, in which there could potentially be a
2:42
Speaker 3: salary cap or some higher you know, harsher CBT taxes threshold,
2:47
Speaker 3: something on the other end that could decent advise teams
2:50
Speaker 3: like the Dodgers from spending. Of course, he's going to
2:53
Speaker 3: want to sign before the lockout. People. That's the same
2:56
Speaker 3: thing most Boris clients, Marcus Simeon and Corey Seeker did
3:00
Speaker 3: before the last lockout. Trek Scoogle is almost certainly going
3:04
Speaker 3: to sign before December first. Now to get that record deal.
3:09
Speaker 3: None of people are talking about this. Trek school is
3:11
Speaker 3: gonna make a lot a lot of money, and he
3:13
Speaker 3: deserves it. But to get that record deal, we're talking
3:15
Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty plus million, he might have to
3:18
Speaker 3: finish this season a little, a little bit stronger. You
3:22
Speaker 3: don't want to leave any doubt about whether you were
3:25
Speaker 3: worth fifty million a season, or about whether you were
3:28
Speaker 3: worth eight or ten years on a contract. Schoobl since
3:32
Speaker 3: going to LA, he's really he's had one okay outing,
3:35
Speaker 3: He's had one kind of bad outing. He's had one
3:37
Speaker 3: pretty good outing. The narrative, even after his last outing
3:40
Speaker 3: seemed like not great, even though he went what six innings,
3:43
Speaker 3: one run, he wasn't that pitch efficient which led him
3:46
Speaker 3: do going one hundred and nine. But wow, it's almost
3:49
Speaker 3: like having a different manager means it's you're capable of
3:52
Speaker 3: suddenly pitching more than ninety five pitches. It's almost like
3:55
Speaker 3: Schooble wasn't demanding out of games once he reached ninety
3:58
Speaker 3: five pitches or something. So I don't know, there's a
4:01
Speaker 3: lot going on there. There will continue to be a
4:04
Speaker 3: lot going on there. We'll see how the schedule lines up.
4:06
Speaker 3: Might even get to see him at Comerica Park sooner
4:09
Speaker 3: than later. Like I've said a million times, you know what,
4:12
Speaker 3: I'm really not worried about Trek Scouble. For all the
4:14
Speaker 3: noise around him, this guy's a really good pitcher. The
4:17
Speaker 3: Dodgers mostly got him to pitch in October, although they
4:20
Speaker 3: need to start winning some games themselves. But Trek School
4:24
Speaker 3: is going to be just fine. The Dodgers are going
4:26
Speaker 3: to be just fine. And free agency, he's gonna make
4:30
Speaker 3: a lot of money. Yes there, yes, yes, I predict
4:33
Speaker 3: they will be just fine.
4:36
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know.
4:38
Speaker 1: I have some doubts on that one. You can only
4:41
Speaker 1: you can only kick the can down the road so much, Cody.
4:44
Speaker 2: That's uh, that's.
4:45
Speaker 3: All talking about their financial situation. I don't know if
4:48
Speaker 3: they'll Yeah, I don't know. I have to do a
4:51
Speaker 3: lot more reading about that. In terms of their play
4:53
Speaker 3: on the field in twenty six, I predict they will
4:56
Speaker 3: be just fine.
4:58
Speaker 2: They get it together about that, all that other stuff.
5:02
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, bills come do. That's what the bills
5:05
Speaker 1: tend to do. They tend to they tend to come do. Anyway,
5:08
Speaker 1: all right, let's uh, let's get to some mailback questions here, Cody.
5:12
Speaker 1: I like I said, when you when you when you
5:16
Speaker 1: when you ask for questions, it gives you an idea
5:18
Speaker 1: of what the fan base is thinking about. And and
5:20
Speaker 1: on our last episode, we talked about Max Clark and
5:25
Speaker 1: the Good things that that we have seen from him,
5:28
Speaker 1: and given what this front office likes to do, it
5:33
Speaker 1: stands to reason like, is there a motivation to this
5:37
Speaker 1: comes from Sparky's ghosts? Will the Tigers extend Max Clark
5:41
Speaker 1: or any of the other rookies before the CBA expires,
5:44
Speaker 1: which again that's December first. Also, he asks who are
5:47
Speaker 1: the swing and mis relievers the Tigers should target in
5:50
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven. I will say we will get to
5:52
Speaker 1: that in the off season. We will have plenty of
5:54
Speaker 1: time to uh to to talk about that.
5:57
Speaker 3: Content answer for that right now is all of them
5:59
Speaker 3: should target all of the swing and mis relievers, and
6:02
Speaker 3: we'll hone in on a couple once we get to
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Speaker 3: the off season.
6:06
Speaker 1: Yes so, but Max Clark extension. Does that idea do
6:12
Speaker 1: anything for you?
6:14
Speaker 3: It certainly does. It seems like the Tigers like to
6:17
Speaker 3: at least try this with most of their young players.
6:20
Speaker 3: They've extended Colt Keith and Kevin McGonagall. I'm of the
6:23
Speaker 3: belief they have at least floated some extensions to others
6:26
Speaker 3: that they also tend to like to start with extreme
6:29
Speaker 3: low ball offers, like starting Trek Schoogle with four years
6:33
Speaker 3: and seventy five million. So yeah, I think this would
6:40
Speaker 3: make a lot of sense. Max Clark is not a
6:42
Speaker 3: Bors client, He's a Wasserman or now called the team client,
6:47
Speaker 3: So in theory, maybe this should be on the table.
6:50
Speaker 3: What I'm most interested in is like, how do you
6:53
Speaker 3: value Max Clark? Because the Tigers gave Hi McGonagle eight years,
6:57
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty million. That deal is going to
7:00
Speaker 3: top out at twenty three million per season with incentives
7:04
Speaker 3: from twenty thirty two to twenty thirty four. I think
7:08
Speaker 3: we've talked about this son. There's probably enough uncertainty in
7:12
Speaker 3: terms of Max Clark's floor that I don't think he's
7:17
Speaker 3: going to get the McGonagall extension. So what would you
7:20
Speaker 3: give him? What would you be comfortable giving him? Knowing
7:22
Speaker 3: he certainly has the upside of a Corbin Carroll esque player,
7:28
Speaker 3: and maybe that's where you begin drying out a comp.
7:32
Speaker 3: Let's pull up the Corbyn Carroll contract real quick. Corbin
7:35
Speaker 3: Carroll got eight years, one hundred and eleven million. That's
7:40
Speaker 3: really all things considered, that sounds like a lot, But
7:43
Speaker 3: when you're extending that over eight years, that's not a ton.
7:47
Speaker 3: Twenty million is basically a two and a half war player.
7:51
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what Max Clark's gonna be, but
7:54
Speaker 3: i'd like to think this guy's going to be a
7:56
Speaker 3: two and a half war player as long as he
7:58
Speaker 3: can play good d fins and center field. That's it's
8:01
Speaker 3: not that hard to get there. So I don't know.
8:05
Speaker 3: I'd be very curious kind of what the team's number
8:07
Speaker 3: would be and what Max Clark's number would be, but
8:12
Speaker 3: for something in the one hundred plus million range, I
8:16
Speaker 3: think they should certainly be open to it.
8:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that.
8:21
Speaker 1: My concern is given this, like when I know the
8:26
Speaker 1: Colt Key thing is different because he had not played
8:28
Speaker 1: in major leagues yet, but with mcgonagall's extension, like we
8:34
Speaker 1: had a pretty solid major league sample size and you know,
8:38
Speaker 1: throwing all the minor stuff and spring training even it
8:42
Speaker 1: was like okay, like this, like we got we got
8:44
Speaker 1: a pretty good idea here, and then we can structure
8:47
Speaker 1: it this way. The whole point of Max Clark is
8:52
Speaker 1: that there's a world where he would be quote more
8:55
Speaker 1: valuable than even Kevin McGonagall. That's why he went third old.
9:00
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that's how it will play out, but
9:03
Speaker 1: like that's the idea behind a Max Clark right, especially
9:06
Speaker 1: the center field piece. You know, we'll see where McGonagall
9:09
Speaker 1: ends up defensively long term, and then we'll see where
9:12
Speaker 1: Clark's bat lines up. But that complicates what a number
9:19
Speaker 1: would be for either side to be able to be
9:21
Speaker 1: comfortable with. So while I would certainly be comfortable with
9:25
Speaker 1: the carrol S contract, I just don't know if there's
9:29
Speaker 1: really any motivation on Clark's side to settle on a
9:33
Speaker 1: number without even even he knowing exactly what he is
9:38
Speaker 1: in the Major League. So that that would be my opinion,
9:42
Speaker 1: And that's.
9:42
Speaker 3: One reason I'm always kind of skeptical these things are
9:44
Speaker 3: going to get done. The credit to From the way
9:48
Speaker 3: I understand it, there was quite a bit of back
9:49
Speaker 3: and forth on getting the McGonagall thing done, and the
9:53
Speaker 3: way he played in spring and early in the season
9:55
Speaker 3: might have incentivized getting it done and the Tigers paying
9:58
Speaker 3: up a little bit more. Clark is interesting because there's
10:03
Speaker 3: it feels to me a little riskier. But if I'm
10:06
Speaker 3: Max Clerk, if I'm Max Clerk's agent, as you just said,
10:09
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, he could be worth more than that,
10:12
Speaker 3: especially if if he's ends up playing a gold glove defense,
10:16
Speaker 3: which I don't know if he will, but he's already
10:18
Speaker 3: showing he's that that outcome exists, right, So be fascinating
10:24
Speaker 3: to see how those negotiations go down. I wouldn't be
10:26
Speaker 3: shocked if the two sides at least chat about it.
10:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then I'll lastly on that, I'll say that
10:35
Speaker 1: if you look at like you say, like, it feels
10:38
Speaker 1: more risky, Like that's kind of the Max Clerk experience
10:41
Speaker 1: to this point, because it's a higher varity of variety
10:45
Speaker 1: of outcomes, right, the higher variants. But at the same time,
10:49
Speaker 1: if you just kind of look at everything he's done
10:51
Speaker 1: this season just to get to the bigs and then
10:54
Speaker 1: the big the big league experience he's had thus far,
10:58
Speaker 1: he's done everything that's asked of him. He's come in
11:00
Speaker 1: with a good attitude. If I'm him, I'm thinking I
11:04
Speaker 1: have shown a lot of growth this year. There's no
11:07
Speaker 1: reason for this to be a short curve, so I'm
11:10
Speaker 1: not going to short curve my potential salary in the future.
11:16
Speaker 3: So yeah, that while we're on this real quick and
11:18
Speaker 3: that's like I've seen people like, oh, I can't believe
11:20
Speaker 3: the Tigers didn't offer Casey Mice, like, what was the
11:25
Speaker 3: market for Casey miz I don't know that we know
11:27
Speaker 3: what the market for Casey Mice is right now. At
11:30
Speaker 3: what point in his career would you have felt comfortable
11:33
Speaker 3: offering him a sizeable amount of money? I mean, I
11:36
Speaker 3: don't know. Could at the before the trade deadline? Could
11:39
Speaker 3: you have offered him three forty five like I guess
11:43
Speaker 3: if he wanted to. He was also hurt again right
11:46
Speaker 3: around that time, So that's probably one reason that that
11:49
Speaker 3: they never offered Casey anything. And again, if you're Casey
11:53
Speaker 3: who was made an All Star team last year pitching
11:55
Speaker 3: really well this year, Casey Mice has increased his value
11:58
Speaker 3: a lot from let's even just say opening day, and
12:03
Speaker 3: how he ultimately affairs in the free agent market will
12:05
Speaker 3: probably depend a lot on what he does in the
12:07
Speaker 3: final six weeks of this season with the Padres. So
12:12
Speaker 3: sometimes it's hard to define what guys are actually worth.
12:16
Speaker 2: Exactly.
12:17
Speaker 1: We are going to get to a quick break and then,
12:19
Speaker 1: speaking of defining what a guy is actually worth, we
12:23
Speaker 1: have another extension question with a three time All Star
12:25
Speaker 1: on this Tigers team.
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13:33
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, So if you want to
13:35
Speaker 1: talk about risk, let's go with a Riley Green extension question.
13:39
Speaker 1: This is from Spankster the Gangster. What are the odds
13:44
Speaker 1: of Riley parentheses ever getting extended? And if the Tigers
13:49
Speaker 1: do make an offer, do you think it would the
13:51
Speaker 1: total money would be more than Kevin mcgonagall's one hundred
13:54
Speaker 1: and fifty million. So, just to recap Riley Green, obviously
13:57
Speaker 1: he's currently hurt, but he is a three time All
14:00
Speaker 1: Star if people care about that, He's a five point
14:02
Speaker 1: three war player in twenty four, two point two war
14:04
Speaker 1: player in twenty five, and as of right now, he
14:08
Speaker 1: is a two point zero war player. So and we
14:12
Speaker 1: and you know, seeking a variance. We've seen a different
14:14
Speaker 1: type of Riley Green just in this last three years
14:17
Speaker 1: really in terms of what his profile actually is. So
14:20
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on a Riley Green extension?
14:23
Speaker 3: Sure? What's he have two more years of team control?
14:26
Speaker 3: Is that right?
14:27
Speaker 2: Yes? So free agent in twenty twenty nine.
14:30
Speaker 3: Three time All Star, another player fascinating to do. I've
14:34
Speaker 3: already heard from a couple agents like kind of saying
14:37
Speaker 3: that they don't think Riley Green is going to do
14:38
Speaker 3: that well on the free agent market in two more
14:41
Speaker 3: years because he's a corner outfielder and he's no longer
14:46
Speaker 3: grading out as a good defender. He's now grading out
14:48
Speaker 3: as a below average defender. And if you're a below
14:51
Speaker 3: average defender, you better be hitting. You better be an
14:55
Speaker 3: elite hitter, not just a very good hitter. Right now,
14:57
Speaker 3: Riley good as he is. I think he's very talented,
15:00
Speaker 3: terrific player, probably profiles a little more on the very
15:03
Speaker 3: good range. Not necessarily the type of guy who's gonna get,
15:08
Speaker 3: certainly not one hundred and fifty million dollar deal. I
15:11
Speaker 3: feel pretty confidencing I'd be stunned if Riley Green were
15:14
Speaker 3: to get that much in an extension or even when
15:16
Speaker 3: he eventually becomes a free agent. Now, what he is
15:19
Speaker 3: is a pretty dang good player, though it is worth remindering,
15:22
Speaker 3: like if you go on fangrafts two and a half
15:24
Speaker 3: war that's twenty million last year, two point nine or
15:28
Speaker 3: twenty three million, So you know, I think if I'm
15:32
Speaker 3: Riley's camp, I would be wanting to see nine figures,
15:36
Speaker 3: so five one hundred six, one twenty five if you consider, yeah,
15:42
Speaker 3: if you consider his actual production. That's not that's not crazy,
15:48
Speaker 3: but the injury risk looms large. The fact he's already
15:51
Speaker 3: slowed down, already declined as a fielder would make me
15:54
Speaker 3: very hesitant as a franchise to extend him. I think
16:00
Speaker 3: the Tigers would be more comfortable seeing where he's at
16:03
Speaker 3: in a couple of years, right, seeing how his body
16:06
Speaker 3: is doing, how he's aging. So there could be dh
16:08
Speaker 3: risk with Riley Green. There could be things that inhibit
16:11
Speaker 3: his earnings. It's one of the reasons him getting hurt
16:14
Speaker 3: this year, even though it seems relatively minor, is unfortunate.
16:17
Speaker 3: He was playing his butt off, even though speeding defense
16:20
Speaker 3: weren't there. He was staying healthy right, he was on
16:22
Speaker 3: the field producing well at the plate. That's about all
16:27
Speaker 3: I got to say. I've we've kind of been talking
16:28
Speaker 3: about this for a couple of years already because it's
16:31
Speaker 3: just hard to know. But I also think if you're
16:35
Speaker 3: the Tigers, like it's kind of hard to pull the
16:38
Speaker 3: trigger on the extension. As you said, Kieren, there's a
16:40
Speaker 3: little too much risk there, I think.
16:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:44
Speaker 1: And for the record, he turns twenty six in late September.
16:48
Speaker 3: She's still really young.
16:50
Speaker 2: He is still very young.
16:52
Speaker 1: There is an extension number that I'm comfortable with there,
16:54
Speaker 1: or I would say length, There is an extension length
16:57
Speaker 1: that I am comfortable with basically before you get too
17:02
Speaker 1: far in the backs, like in the early thirties, Like
17:04
Speaker 1: any number there like I can work with. And then
17:08
Speaker 1: again a lot of this is CBA dependent, but numbers.
17:11
Speaker 1: If you're just like kind of in line and you
17:13
Speaker 1: do a little bit of projection with what his war
17:16
Speaker 1: is worth, you know, according to all these metrics that
17:18
Speaker 1: people use, it's not outrageous to me, but it does
17:22
Speaker 1: put you in a position to have to pay for
17:25
Speaker 1: something that you don't have to, which.
17:27
Speaker 2: Is always a risk with extensions.
17:28
Speaker 1: But Riley Green Optics and his history like tells you
17:34
Speaker 1: like that's something that has to be taken into account.
17:36
Speaker 1: And then from his perspective, it's like, hey, I'm worth
17:38
Speaker 1: a minimum of this, Why would I accept anything less
17:42
Speaker 1: when I have prime years left to prove myself being
17:47
Speaker 1: being worth maybe double what they would be offering. So
17:50
Speaker 1: it seems unlikely on both sides, but I think it
17:52
Speaker 1: could get done if people were if people were motivated
17:55
Speaker 1: for it.
17:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd be surprised if the Tigers are motivated for
18:00
Speaker 3: but you never know. I have not, I have not
18:02
Speaker 3: heard that directly, so we'll see what happens.
18:06
Speaker 2: Well.
18:07
Speaker 1: Speaking of projecting, now, we have a question from Carson Parker.
18:11
Speaker 1: What do you guys, what do you do with guys
18:14
Speaker 1: like Torque and carry this winner with Brasigo and Hope
18:18
Speaker 1: not far away? This is a question that I've bounced
18:22
Speaker 1: around in my head, Cody, especially every time you get
18:25
Speaker 1: a highlight a host way and you know, Hope just
18:28
Speaker 1: had like a double and a home run the other night, so, like,
18:32
Speaker 1: you know, nice to see him get out of that slump.
18:36
Speaker 1: I don't think any move is going to come this
18:39
Speaker 1: offseason with either one of them. I think the Tigers
18:42
Speaker 1: will do the thing where they hang on, maybe try
18:45
Speaker 1: to add some competition, maybe organically create some competition for
18:48
Speaker 1: these guys. But I don't see them cutting bait or
18:53
Speaker 1: being subject to a roster crunch yet.
18:57
Speaker 2: That's my blos.
18:59
Speaker 3: I think think you're probably right. It's just really interesting
19:04
Speaker 3: to try to project this out. I would say you
19:06
Speaker 3: can't just bank on everything going smoothly for these guys
19:10
Speaker 3: who are not yet in the major leagues. Yeah, or
19:13
Speaker 3: one more injury if Persiennio gets hit in the hand
19:16
Speaker 3: and has to have another surgery, then you're like, oh, well,
19:19
Speaker 3: we probably shouldn't have cut Torque. So I don't think
19:21
Speaker 3: it's gonna happen. Yeah, that smoothly, that decisively is letting
19:25
Speaker 3: it happen organically the best way, maybe, But you can
19:29
Speaker 3: also kind of see all these roadblocks coming. I wish
19:34
Speaker 3: the Tigers could find some way to make a trade
19:37
Speaker 3: or two that kind of cleans things up for them
19:39
Speaker 3: at the major league level. I don't know what that
19:41
Speaker 3: looks like, but I wonder if that's possible this offseason.
19:45
Speaker 3: I almost think it's necessary this offseason in some form
19:48
Speaker 3: or fashion. Think about it. Even you have the infield's
19:53
Speaker 3: getting crowded, you have how yu Lee, Max Anderson a
19:56
Speaker 3: year from now here, and Bryce Rayner might be knocking
19:59
Speaker 3: on your door real loudly, and so it's like, okay, well,
20:01
Speaker 3: one natural pivot is putting cold Keith to first base,
20:06
Speaker 3: where granted, this guy's got work to do defensively, but
20:08
Speaker 3: that could clean some things up if you decide you're
20:11
Speaker 3: over the Torque experience. At the same time, Kieran, I
20:15
Speaker 3: don't think the Tigers are in the business of just
20:17
Speaker 3: moving on from guys who can hit twenty five to
20:19
Speaker 3: thirty homers a year, even if they're not maybe the
20:22
Speaker 3: well rounded players we would like them to be. We've
20:25
Speaker 3: talked about Tour looking more like a well rounded hitter
20:28
Speaker 3: in recent days. That matters, Actually, like what he does matters,
20:33
Speaker 3: Carrie too. I think it's almost less pressing with Carry.
20:37
Speaker 3: You would love to have the good version of Carry
20:39
Speaker 3: Carpenter back, but you can always fall back on him
20:42
Speaker 3: just being a lefty platoon killer, and you'll probably always
20:46
Speaker 3: have room on your roster for that type of guy.
20:49
Speaker 3: The idea of him playing a ton in the field,
20:52
Speaker 3: him playing more every day is probably fading as he
20:55
Speaker 3: misses more time with injury, unfortunately, but that still exists
20:59
Speaker 3: for him to works. The one that it's just a
21:01
Speaker 3: little more uncertain because every time you're like, oh, well,
21:05
Speaker 3: maybe it's just time to move on, either he starts
21:07
Speaker 3: playing better or then solsis like, I don't know, Like,
21:10
Speaker 3: is this a guy you want to let go? And
21:12
Speaker 3: then he goes and he has a career year for
21:14
Speaker 3: the Milwaukee Brewers. You know, I don't think you make
21:17
Speaker 3: that move until you have to, So yeah, yeah.
21:22
Speaker 1: And again like my my, My opinion on Torque has
21:25
Speaker 1: always been show me, show me the replacement that is
21:29
Speaker 1: realistic and and and gives you at least some measure
21:33
Speaker 1: of upside that Torque does. And the Prasinia thing is real.
21:36
Speaker 1: It's not me knocking him as a prospect. But he's
21:39
Speaker 1: also still in double A right now, right, So like.
21:42
Speaker 3: Preceno is really good, you know, was a really good
21:48
Speaker 3: prospect who could hit Spencer.
21:53
Speaker 1: Spencer, Yeah, exactly, so until I get proof of concept.
21:58
Speaker 3: Has played six games and Bullet by the way, okay.
22:01
Speaker 1: Six games, so yeah, sorry about that. So so yeah,
22:04
Speaker 1: that's that's a factor. And I think eventually a decision
22:07
Speaker 1: will have to be made. I just don't think it's
22:10
Speaker 1: going to be in the winter of twenty six going
22:11
Speaker 1: into twenty seventh.
22:12
Speaker 2: That would be my answer to that.
22:14
Speaker 1: All right, speaking of crowded what's this comes from Moman's
22:19
Speaker 1: play what's the reality when it comes to Jace Young
22:21
Speaker 1: in his future as a Tiger.
22:24
Speaker 3: We just went through that whole discussion without mentioning Jace Young,
22:27
Speaker 3: which is telling, uh, this is a guy you know
22:32
Speaker 3: that I wonder if the Tigers will move on from
22:35
Speaker 3: this winner. I'm not sure that I just think it's
22:37
Speaker 3: unfortunate Young has never gotten a longer run in the
22:40
Speaker 3: major leagues. He only has one hundred and fifty seven
22:43
Speaker 3: played appearances, Kieren. I feel like there are times they
22:46
Speaker 3: could have brought him up this year, and you know,
22:49
Speaker 3: just to have a lefty infield bat. It seems pretty
22:52
Speaker 3: clear they've soured on him, and yet they've kept him around,
22:55
Speaker 3: kept him on the forty man roster to the point
22:57
Speaker 3: I'm like, why is he occupying a forty man spot
23:00
Speaker 3: if it's pretty clear you're not going to bring him up.
23:03
Speaker 3: He's hit two thirty two in Toledo this year, which
23:05
Speaker 3: isn't great. He does have nineteen homers seven to eighty ops.
23:10
Speaker 3: Like again, it's not like he's really stated the case
23:12
Speaker 3: for himself. It's also not like he's been terrible. I
23:16
Speaker 3: remember a scout told me this year they just bring
23:18
Speaker 3: up yet Trace Young. He can at least give you
23:20
Speaker 3: a quality at bat. Fielding's not great, but I think
23:23
Speaker 3: there's I think he is a major league hitdterer, and
23:26
Speaker 3: I think another team would pick him up and he
23:29
Speaker 3: could be on a major league roster somewhere. Seems like
23:33
Speaker 3: that's got to be coming to a head. This winner.
23:36
Speaker 1: Feels like a guy that could go to like Tampa
23:40
Speaker 1: or the Baltimore or to the A's and do you
23:44
Speaker 1: like look up and you're just like, does he really
23:47
Speaker 1: have seventeen home runs?
23:49
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
23:50
Speaker 1: Like it it feels like that could that could be
23:53
Speaker 1: the play for him, and hopefully like it seems like
23:55
Speaker 1: he's definitely had a challenging road to this point in
23:59
Speaker 1: his professional career. So if if that's what happens for him,
24:02
Speaker 1: I'd be happy for him, but I would always I
24:05
Speaker 1: will always be disappointed that I never felt like he
24:08
Speaker 1: got any sort of run, because I did feel like
24:11
Speaker 1: the profiled marriage.
24:13
Speaker 3: Well, and we are now clearly at the point where
24:15
Speaker 3: other players are getting chances before him, probably because the
24:19
Speaker 3: Tigers like their overall profiles more right, which is which
24:22
Speaker 3: is fine, but doesn't mean that Jase Young, Jace Young,
24:26
Speaker 3: I would imagine, has probably gone from the point of
24:28
Speaker 3: like why am I not getting a chance to like
24:31
Speaker 3: just send me somewhere else, man, you know.
24:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see, Yeah, well we shall see. All right, We're
24:37
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break and then afterward we
24:39
Speaker 1: have a question about what to do about the rest
24:41
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25:48
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here, this comes from g money
25:52
Speaker 1: and obviously kind of feeling after this Pirate series loss.
25:56
Speaker 1: So the Tigers continue this postseason push. The bullpen isn't
25:59
Speaker 1: going to get them out of the wildcart and at
26:01
Speaker 1: what point do you just try to keep everyone healthy
26:04
Speaker 1: for next year? Speaking of which, can we get a
26:08
Speaker 1: Meadows and Wentze update? We said our last episode Wentzel
26:12
Speaker 1: might be getting a rehab start soon. Feels like Meadows
26:16
Speaker 1: far away with that broken broken arm and you know,
26:19
Speaker 1: having the heel in multiple places. But but yeah, so
26:23
Speaker 1: is there like, is there still incentive to push for
26:25
Speaker 1: the postseason?
26:27
Speaker 3: Essentially this question, Yeah, I don't really know what this
26:29
Speaker 3: question means. I mean, you have to you have to
26:32
Speaker 3: play the rest of the schedule, all right. I don't
26:33
Speaker 3: think the Tigers will be forfeiting the rest of the season.
26:36
Speaker 2: Get much younger, that's the other thing.
26:39
Speaker 3: I guess it means, like stop giving opportunities to veterans,
26:43
Speaker 3: shut down the Riley Greens of the world so they
26:45
Speaker 3: stay healthy or whatever. I mean, that seems a little
26:49
Speaker 3: extreme to me. You already do have a young roster.
26:51
Speaker 3: There's only so much further you can go with with
26:54
Speaker 3: playing the kids. You kept Kenley Jansen, you kept Glaberts.
26:58
Speaker 3: Whereas at the trade deadline and like you're you have
27:02
Speaker 3: to play those guys to some extent. So yeah, yes,
27:07
Speaker 3: and also yes they should continue the postseason push. As
27:10
Speaker 3: bad as it's been, as much as I do not
27:12
Speaker 3: like this bullpen, they are in it, and in the
27:14
Speaker 3: week stayed with the American League. They're probably gonna stay
27:17
Speaker 3: somewhat in it until the until the final days of
27:21
Speaker 3: the season. I will they do it, like, I don't
27:23
Speaker 3: know if they can, if they get hot, or the
27:25
Speaker 3: bullpen can continue to crush them. I'm not gonna predict
27:28
Speaker 3: what's gonna happen. I think the unfortunate, somewhat unfortunate reality
27:32
Speaker 3: is this American League wildcard race is so bad, so chaotic,
27:37
Speaker 3: that they're probably going to stay in this thing. They're
27:39
Speaker 3: one good series away from being right back there, probably
27:42
Speaker 3: even occupying a playoff spot. So yeah, yeah.
27:47
Speaker 1: The way I look at it, Cody, is like, I
27:50
Speaker 1: still believe there is value in merit for the guys
27:53
Speaker 1: that are going to be on this team long term
27:55
Speaker 1: to be in a high pressured postseason push.
28:00
Speaker 2: You know, maybe make it, maybe not, you know whatever.
28:03
Speaker 1: Like the guys like keV McGonagall, the guys like Max Clark,
28:06
Speaker 1: like playing meaningful games I think is meaningful you know,
28:10
Speaker 1: I mean like and like and and obviously you got
28:13
Speaker 1: to deal with this point of the season as a whole.
28:15
Speaker 1: But if you're just kind of being really narrowly focused
28:17
Speaker 1: here horse blinders on like every day, there's something there.
28:21
Speaker 1: There's an opportunity for these guys to make, you know,
28:25
Speaker 1: to make the play that kind of pushes his team forward.
28:28
Speaker 1: Whereas as bad as the season has been, not every
28:30
Speaker 1: team gets to say that. And so I do think
28:32
Speaker 1: there's value long term for these guys to be in
28:35
Speaker 1: in this situation. So that's it, I'd be how I answer.
28:37
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, I don't think there's any pulling the plug
28:40
Speaker 3: until you're mathematically eliminated, which again is not gonna happen
28:44
Speaker 3: anytime soon.
28:46
Speaker 1: All right, let's wrap up with this one. How high
28:50
Speaker 1: this is from Matt Broadhead? How high is the ceiling
28:55
Speaker 1: for one Drew Summers?
28:58
Speaker 2: Well? Is it? Does the ceiling exist? Is my follow
29:02
Speaker 2: up question there?
29:03
Speaker 3: Cody. You look at this Drue Summer stat cast page.
29:06
Speaker 3: We showed a couple episodes ago. It's only gotten better
29:09
Speaker 3: since then. He is ninety ninth or one hundred percent
29:13
Speaker 3: style in a lot of categories, thirty six point three
29:18
Speaker 3: percent strikeout rate, thirty seven point six percent, chase rate,
29:22
Speaker 3: elite extension, elite ground ball rate, elite hard hit rate.
29:26
Speaker 3: Like he's pitching like a guy who has a very,
29:30
Speaker 3: very high ceiling. How do you describe that ceiling for
29:33
Speaker 3: like a lefty reliever. I don't I don't know. I'm
29:37
Speaker 3: not really prepared to say, like, oh, he's he's a
29:40
Speaker 3: future closer, because like, does he have a Josh had fastball?
29:44
Speaker 2: No?
29:45
Speaker 3: Does he even have a Josh Hater? I mean that
29:47
Speaker 3: some of the numbers on slide are pretty nasty, But
29:49
Speaker 3: is he going to be a guy who uses that
29:52
Speaker 3: sixty percent of the time or something? I'm not sure.
29:55
Speaker 3: I think maybe you can settle for elite lefty reliever
29:58
Speaker 3: and you could feel pretty good about that. Obviously, he's
30:01
Speaker 3: still kind of polishing. Maybe some of the rough edges
30:05
Speaker 3: the command can get away from him at points, even
30:07
Speaker 3: just mentally, like being a dog who comes down and
30:12
Speaker 3: locks down a big situation, that's something you have to
30:14
Speaker 3: grow into a little bit. It is there, and he
30:17
Speaker 3: is really close to becoming a full on force. For now,
30:22
Speaker 3: I'm gonna leave that as just like one of the
30:23
Speaker 3: better lefty relievers in the game. I don't know, you know,
30:26
Speaker 3: I don't know if I ever see Drew Summers saving
30:29
Speaker 3: forty games in the big leagues or anything like that.
30:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I see the vision for a long time.
30:37
Speaker 1: Admittedly I didn't because it just seemed too wild to me.
30:40
Speaker 1: But now I get it, and now I'm kind of
30:43
Speaker 1: like carrying water for him where I'm like, he's just
30:45
Speaker 1: getting beat by these bs ground balls, like you know,
30:49
Speaker 1: to the right of the shortstop and the left of
30:51
Speaker 1: the third basement, you know what I mean. And so
30:54
Speaker 1: give him credit and give the Tigers credit for being
30:56
Speaker 1: patient with him and him taking the instructions and all
30:59
Speaker 1: that stuff. He might end up being like the left
31:02
Speaker 1: handed side. If AJ could ever like truly platoon his
31:06
Speaker 1: safe situations quote unquote, he might be the lefty part.
31:09
Speaker 3: Definitely going back to that next year, you know. Yeah, Oh,
31:13
Speaker 3: we're definitely going back to there's no closer next year. Yeah.
31:17
Speaker 1: If if like will Vest or a will Vest equivalent,
31:21
Speaker 1: Uh is in on the team in twenty twenty seven,
31:24
Speaker 1: the lefty part of it is AJ and he's just
31:26
Speaker 1: gonna play around, you know what I mean.
31:28
Speaker 2: Or the lefty part of it is Drew and AJ
31:31
Speaker 2: is just going to play around.
31:32
Speaker 3: Drew Summer is gonna like eleven saves next year. It's
31:36
Speaker 3: gonna be talking like should he be the closer?
31:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then AJ is gonna be like, you know
31:40
Speaker 1: I had I had multiple guys with ten plus saves.
31:43
Speaker 1: You know, he's you know, he's gonna go on and
31:45
Speaker 1: on about that. So so yeah, I mean, like I said,
31:49
Speaker 1: credit to him, Credit to the staff for like being
31:52
Speaker 1: able to get him to focus and hone in on
31:54
Speaker 1: what can make him really really really effective. Uh and
31:59
Speaker 1: if you're gonna go and the feeld ratings of the
32:02
Speaker 1: guys that they have really relied on these past couple
32:04
Speaker 1: of weeks, between him and Finnigan and ken Lee, I mean,
32:08
Speaker 1: he might be number one now, which maybe that's a
32:12
Speaker 1: little bit reactionary, but the numbers kind of bear that out.
32:16
Speaker 3: Metrically, he has been the best pitcher in the bullpen.
32:19
Speaker 3: It's not really close. And even some of the other,
32:21
Speaker 3: like we talked about Kenley's metrics a little better than
32:23
Speaker 3: you would think that, Like, Summers has been the dude
32:26
Speaker 3: and his results are just now kind of matching up
32:29
Speaker 3: to his process to like the way he is pitching.
32:33
Speaker 3: So there's a lot to be encouraged about for sure.
32:37
Speaker 1: All right, and we will see what happens in Kansas
32:39
Speaker 1: City this weekend. Of course, we will talk about it
32:42
Speaker 1: on Monday for you guys, and then moving forward the
32:45
Speaker 1: rest of the year as we figure out what to
32:48
Speaker 1: do with this Tiger's team. It might take a whole
32:49
Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty two to figure out what to
32:51
Speaker 1: do with this Tiger's team, but we'll be there every
32:53
Speaker 1: step of the way.
32:54
Speaker 2: You can follow us at Cody Stavenhagen.
32:55
Speaker 1: I'm at Kieran on a sports decicly pot page, at
32:58
Speaker 1: Tiger Territory, Underscore, at YouTube, Spotify.
33:00
Speaker 2: You guys know what to do.
33:01
Speaker 1: We appreciate all of you, so for Cody Stavenhagen, I'm
33:04
Speaker 1: Kieren Steckley. Everybody have great there,