Latest / The Confident Entrepreneur With Jennifer Ann Johnson / Reignite Your Passion: A Creativity Boost for Entrepreneurs With Evan Cholfin
Transcript
- 0:37Jennifer Johnson: Have you ever felt stuck in a creative rut, desperately searching for that spark of inspiration?
- 0:42Jennifer Johnson: Whether you're an entrepreneur or an artist, or just somebody that is looking to inject more creativity into your daily life, you're in the right place.
- 0:52Jennifer Johnson: In today's episode, we're diving in to the 10 tips to boost your creativity, and I welcome into the studio today Evan Cholfin.
- 1:02Jennifer Johnson: Evan is the CEO and founder of Luxhammer.
- 1:05Jennifer Johnson: He creates and produces unforgettable film and TV and branded entertainment that helps brands make powerful and lasting connections with their audiences, reaching over a billion people and that is a billion with a B.
- 1:19Jennifer Johnson: That's pretty impressive.
- 1:22Jennifer Johnson: He has spent the last two decades developing, packaging, selling and producing film and TV.
- 1:27Jennifer Johnson: Evan has worked on beloved projects, including the Academy Award-winning nominated films the Irishman, the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and Moneyball, as well as the Emmy-winning series the Night Of on HBO.
- 1:41Jennifer Johnson: An avid genre fan, his most recent projects include film and TV adaptations of Sega video games, where he partnered with top-tier filmmakers.
- 1:53Jennifer Johnson: Evan has been featured in over 3,000 publications, including Variety, the Hollywood Reporter, yahoo Finance and Adweek.
- 2:01Jennifer Johnson: Welcome Evan.
- 2:04Evan Cholfin: Thank you, that's an amazing introduction, I appreciate it.
- 2:08Jennifer Johnson: You are an amazing individual.
- 2:09Jennifer Johnson: I mean all of that.
- 2:11Jennifer Johnson: That is so much.
- 2:13Jennifer Johnson: Where did you get started?
- 2:15Jennifer Johnson: Where did?
- 2:16Jennifer Johnson: all of this begin.
- 2:18Evan Cholfin: Well, with my dad's video camera, my Legos and I made stop motion movies when I was five years old.
- 2:25Jennifer Johnson: Wow and all of that leads.
- 2:28Jennifer Johnson: It led you to where you are today.
- 2:30Evan Cholfin: That's right, that's right, and here I am.
- 2:33Jennifer Johnson: And here you are.
- 2:34Jennifer Johnson: Well, that's pretty impressive.
- 2:35Jennifer Johnson: I have seen the Irishman.
- 2:38Jennifer Johnson: I have not seen the girl with the dragon tattoo, but I have seen Moneyball Very cool.
- 2:46Jennifer Johnson: So I want to talk with you today about specifically 10 things that people can do, 10 tips that people can utilize to be more creative.
- 2:58Jennifer Johnson: On an everyday basis.
- 3:00Jennifer Johnson: We're needing to be creative in many different aspects of our lives, and sometimes our creative juices are just gone.
- 3:06Jennifer Johnson: We've worked ourselves into a tither and we're like I can't create anything.
- 3:11Jennifer Johnson: I don't know where to begin.
- 3:12Jennifer Johnson: So I thought it would be amazing to have you share with our audience 10 tips that you suggest to them that they can use to be more creative, Because obviously you're very creative.
- 3:27Evan Cholfin: Yeah, absolutely I'm happy to share.
- 3:30Evan Cholfin: The first one I always tell people is keep your day job.
- 3:35Evan Cholfin: I say that because it's really important to keep a base.
- 3:42Evan Cholfin: You know, whenever you're being creative, it's important to have that level where you don't have to worry, you don't have to struggle so much, you can just build from there.
- 3:58Evan Cholfin: You know, and everybody, even the most successful creative people, all have their day jobs.
- 4:13Evan Cholfin: I tell my management clients that the great documentarian Errol Morris, who has won Oscars for the Thin Blue Line and the Fog War, that his day job is directing KFC commercials.
- 4:24Evan Cholfin: So it goes hand in hand that you know it's a good idea.
- 4:30Evan Cholfin: The second thing that I like to say is to step outside your comfort zone.
- 4:38Evan Cholfin: Don't be afraid to try something new.
- 4:41Evan Cholfin: You know, it's when you step outside your comfort zone that's when you really grow.
- 4:46Evan Cholfin: And when I was tasked this was a little while back, when I was a creative director for a campaign for Japan Airlines we had to really think outside the box to come up with an idea to attract business travelers, to really raise awareness about the airline, which they had said that they had zero awareness outside of Japan.
- 5:16Jennifer Johnson: And.
- 5:18Evan Cholfin: I came up with an idea and I knew I wanted to create this global artwork, and I didn't know exactly how.
- 5:31Evan Cholfin: So I did a bunch of research and I came across this artist named Yasan, who is a GPS artist, and this was totally new to me.
- 5:44Evan Cholfin: So a GPS artist is someone.
- 5:49Evan Cholfin: What he did, I'll explain it by how he did it.
- 5:52Evan Cholfin: He traveled all across before our campaign by foot, by train, by bus, however.
- 5:58Evan Cholfin: He could tracked his GPS data.
- 6:01Evan Cholfin: Foot by train, by bus, however.
- 6:05Evan Cholfin: He could tracked his gps data, uploaded it to google maps and it spelled out the words marry me across all of japan oh my gosh, that's how he proposed his girlfriend at the time that is crazy yeah, and he put everyone else who proposed anything to anyone to shame.
- 6:22Jennifer Johnson: I would think so.
- 6:23Jennifer Johnson: That is crazy.
- 6:24Jennifer Johnson: But you know, not outside the box, right?
- 6:31Evan Cholfin: Yeah, exactly, so fortunately she said yes.
- 6:34Jennifer Johnson: That wasn't all for us.
- 6:36Evan Cholfin: Yeah, it cut to a couple of years later and we were able to give him an opportunity to travel, to break the world record that he set 14 times over by traveling to 19 cities across six continents, and he would fly to each spot and meet people in each city and they would basically push the button on his iPhone and it would activate the next leg of his journey and, as he flew, it tracked the GPS data and so he not only met all of these people, but they helped him to create this global artwork and it spelled out the word, literally spelled out the word peace, and so the campaign peace on earth that he created, and we um, you know it was something that we were, uh, told you know this, this is a crazy idea, you know, there's so many things that could go wrong and it was certainly a challenge, but we pushed through and definitely stepped outside our comfort zone to create something, and we were very happy with the result.
- 7:52Jennifer Johnson: Well, I think it's so apropos because a lot of business owners are afraid to do that.
- 7:58Jennifer Johnson: They're afraid just because no one's tried this before, that if they try it and it doesn't work, they're going to look like a failure and then, you know, everybody's going to think less of me.
- 8:09Jennifer Johnson: We get in our own head and in our own way, whereas if we just embraced it and went, screw it If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
- 8:18Jennifer Johnson: I've learned something from it.
- 8:20Jennifer Johnson: Failure is never final, it's always.
- 8:22Jennifer Johnson: You're learning something from it.
- 8:24Jennifer Johnson: I call it hiccuping.
- 8:26Jennifer Johnson: You had a hiccup, but you learned from it, right?
- 8:30Evan Cholfin: Absolutely.
- 8:30Evan Cholfin: And then the client got about 3,000 images and 3,000 hours worth of footage and we were able to give them this uh, cut it down to a five minute highlight reel and a card holiday card that people could send out during the holidays.
- 8:49Jennifer Johnson: So that's cool yeah, it was.
- 8:52Evan Cholfin: It was something that I'm still very proud of um A lot of hours.
- 8:58Jennifer Johnson: You had to convince into a pair shot.
- 9:03Evan Cholfin: Yeah, our documentary team that followed Yasson did an incredible job, and shout out to Mark Apicella for doing an incredible job directing that.
- 9:13Evan Cholfin: They went around the world with Yasson.
- 9:16Evan Cholfin: And the next tip would be be curious, you know any, I like to say combining two disparate ideas really as many ideas into one is really the basis of creativity.
- 9:34Evan Cholfin: And so exploring the world, you know that could be through books, by travel.
- 9:40Evan Cholfin: So exploring the world, you know that could be through books.
- 10:07Evan Cholfin: I think that helps you see things through a different lens and allows you to expand your mind and be more creative.
- 10:14Jennifer Johnson: And it's that always be learning mentality, because there's so much that can be learned in the everyday, mundane things that are happening or happening around you and if you're not paying attention, they'll pass you by and there are great opportunities that you could potentially use for something, but we have to be aware of them.
- 10:37Evan Cholfin: Yeah, absolutely.
- 10:38Evan Cholfin: And then I would say the next one is really important, I think, for people is making a creative habit time and space to each day, work on whatever creative thing that you're working on.
- 11:04Evan Cholfin: So that could be getting up early in the morning, taking half hour or an hour, whatever it is, and working on that thing, whatever it is that you're trying to be creative with, when you have no distractions, when you can really concentrate on it.
- 11:22Evan Cholfin: And what's great about it is it's like exercise and it's hard at first sometimes, but as you do it, it's like exercising that muscle and you get better and better at it and then the more that you do it, the more creative you actually become.
- 11:43Evan Cholfin: So it's important to give yourself that time and that space to do it.
- 11:52Jennifer Johnson: I'm curious for you what do you find is your most creative time during the day?
- 11:58Evan Cholfin: For me, it's definitely right when I, right after I wake up, I think it's a time when I've woken up from dreams and I might still have a dream or an idea that I'm coming off of.
- 12:15Evan Cholfin: You know, especially when it comes to writing or when coming up with an idea and I want to just get it down on the page.
- 12:24Evan Cholfin: It's really helpful to just do it then and there's no distractions at all, which is great before I start getting phone calls and all the things that come with life.
- 12:39Jennifer Johnson: Do you keep that pad of note or that notepad by your desk with, or by your bedside with a pen?
- 12:44Jennifer Johnson: So if you wake up.
- 12:47Evan Cholfin: I don't do that, but I do.
- 12:49Evan Cholfin: I do take a lot of notes on my phone.
- 12:51Evan Cholfin: My phone is is is my notepad.
- 12:55Jennifer Johnson: I'm old school, I pen and paper.
- 13:00Evan Cholfin: I type faster than I write now, so it helps me.
- 13:06Jennifer Johnson: You know, I totally agree with that.
- 13:08Jennifer Johnson: You know you have to find the time during the day that works for you to really you know when your creative juices are flowing.
- 13:15Jennifer Johnson: Do you see every day, do you feel like every day you do that, or is it just when you feel like it?
- 13:23Evan Cholfin: I mean, it kind of goes to the habit of yeah, I try to adhere to the creative habit and try to do something creative each day when I'm working, especially when I'm working on a project, it's really important that I do that.
- 13:43Evan Cholfin: Or if I'm writing, working on a column, you know I might, you know, get up early and work on that.
- 13:50Evan Cholfin: So it just depends.
- 13:53Jennifer Johnson: Okay, well, that's awesome.
- 13:56Evan Cholfin: That was that was.
- 13:58Jennifer Johnson: That was.
- 13:58Jennifer Johnson: That was tip number four.
- 14:01Jennifer Johnson: I can't wait to hear.
- 14:02Evan Cholfin: I can't wait to hear five rolling through, so number five.
- 14:12Evan Cholfin: I say, find your key.
- 14:14Evan Cholfin: So it's really.
- 14:14Evan Cholfin: You know, creativity obviously can be really challenging, and finding your key it's really about forcing yourself to open up areas of your mind that might be locked away.
- 14:26Evan Cholfin: So when you get stuck, it allows you to to get unstuck.
- 14:33Evan Cholfin: So it's really about finding your reason why.
- 14:35Evan Cholfin: So if you're telling a story, for example, or you're writing a script, or you're working on a project or you're you have a company, you have to have your reason why, and that reason why is the single thing that keeps you going and finding that thing is so important to unlock and it will tell you every decision that you have to make throughout the entire process.
- 15:06Evan Cholfin: It will guide you.
- 15:07Evan Cholfin: I think it's key.
- 15:10Evan Cholfin: It's your key.
- 15:13Jennifer Johnson: I love that because it really helps you understand.
- 15:16Jennifer Johnson: Oh, it's the unlocking of that proverbial why, why am I doing all of this?
- 15:26Evan Cholfin: Yeah.
- 15:27Jennifer Johnson: Do you have any tips for that, like how you find your why?
- 15:31Evan Cholfin: Yeah, that's a really good question.
- 15:33Evan Cholfin: I think everybody kind of comes to their own why, through who they are as a person and what their, what their uh morals are, what their uh message is, what, what they're trying to say, what they're trying to do in the world, um, you know it, it can come from uh so many different places, but it really tends to be something internal that drives that person and gives you know.
- 16:14Evan Cholfin: If it's a company, for example, you know you, you it has to be that thing that gets you to wake up in the morning and be excited about working for you know, if you're an entrepreneur, you know it's hard to be an entrepreneur, but it gets you excited to work on what you do, so it has to come from something internal, I think.
- 19:09Jennifer Johnson: What ignites you essentially the fire in?
- 19:15Jennifer Johnson: The belly what makes you feel that feeling Exactly.
- 19:18Jennifer Johnson: Yeah Well, I love the analogy of finding your key.
- 19:21Jennifer Johnson: That's great, that's awesome.
- 19:25Evan Cholfin: Yeah, the next one.
- 19:26Evan Cholfin: It relates to writing, but it also, I think, relates to any kind of projects that you might be working on.
- 19:34Evan Cholfin: I call it writing the vomit draft.
- 19:40Jennifer Johnson: And so the idea.
- 19:43Jennifer Johnson: Vomit draft.
- 19:45Evan Cholfin: Yes.
- 19:46Jennifer Johnson: Okay, so the idea is yeah.
- 19:49Evan Cholfin: Yeah.
- 19:50Evan Cholfin: So the idea is to yeah, yeah, it's the idea to get it all out on the page, because what we tend to do is our analytical mind loves to just immediately filter and start to analyze anything that we're working on.
- 20:07Evan Cholfin: So you have to let your creative side get it out all unfiltered and raw and finish it unfiltered and raw before you start analyzing it, before you start breaking it down.
- 20:21Evan Cholfin: That's all for the second draft to create first, and then do your analysis and actually go through and think critically and assess it.
- 20:40Jennifer Johnson: And that's honestly such great advice for anything.
- 20:42Jennifer Johnson: Like you said, it doesn't have to just pertain to writing, because how many times do we as entrepreneurs have an idea right and we sit here and analyze it, and analyze it until we analyze ourselves out of doing whatever that is?
- 20:57Jennifer Johnson: And if we just put it on paper and then come back to it, maybe there's going to be something else in there that speaks to us that we didn't see before, or that we go oh yeah, that that still wasn't a good idea.
- 21:15Evan Cholfin: Yeah, exactly, and it can allow you to explore like you're saying new possibilities that you may not have thought of, which is the whole point of creativity.
- 21:31Jennifer Johnson: But it just gets it out there.
- 21:32Jennifer Johnson: It gets it out of your body, your head.
- 21:34Jennifer Johnson: You're just like I need to get this on paper.
- 21:36Jennifer Johnson: I have felt that myself, and I feel so much better when it's actually on paper, not on my phone, but on paper, yeah, absolutely yeah, and then it's really important, of course, to get creative feedback.
- 21:57Evan Cholfin: So you know we don't live in a vacuum unless you're in space.
- 22:03Evan Cholfin: Getting feedback is essential from people that are close to you, people that you work with, tend to be helpful.
- 22:19Evan Cholfin: Getting that outside perspective help you to catch things you may have missed, things that might be bumping or not working for them, and there's testing in the marketplace.
- 22:39Evan Cholfin: There's different ways to have you know peer review, you know, but getting that feedback is also really essential because it just makes what you do stronger.
- 22:55Jennifer Johnson: Right?
- 22:55Jennifer Johnson: Have you ever?
- 22:57Jennifer Johnson: Or how do you feel about getting feedback from people that are not in your industry or not one of your peers?
- 23:03Jennifer Johnson: Is it beneficial?
- 23:07Evan Cholfin: Yeah, it definitely can be, because sometimes, when people are not in my field in particular, like I work with clients all the time where they don't do exactly what I do, but they might, you know, have a feeling about something, or they might they might have an opinion about something.
- 23:29Evan Cholfin: It actually he it gives a clue about what.
- 23:35Evan Cholfin: There might be something around what they're commenting on that needs to be fixed, and oftentimes there's.
- 23:45Evan Cholfin: You know, if there's something bumping for them, then oh, maybe we should take a look at it, because there might be something that maybe it's not the exact thing they're talking about, but there could be something around it.
- 23:59Evan Cholfin: And then some people are just really astute, because the truth is that we live in a world where so many people consume media that you know it's pretty amazing how people notice you know stuff and are very media savvy.
- 24:21Jennifer Johnson: It's funny that you say that because my daughter, who's in college, I was filming a bunch of stuff on my phone one day and she saw me doing it and she's like what are you doing?
- 24:30Jennifer Johnson: And I told her that's cringy, like that's what people did a year ago, whatever it was I was doing.
- 24:38Jennifer Johnson: And I'm like really, because she watches TikTok and Instagram and she consumes a lot of stuff on YouTube and everywhere, so she's up on what's going on right now, whereas apparently I'm not.
- 24:53Evan Cholfin: Yeah, absolutely.
- 24:57Jennifer Johnson: Everybody has it on their phones and you know they go to bed with us at night.
- 25:02Jennifer Johnson: They wake up with it, so that makes sense.
- 25:07Evan Cholfin: Yep, it's easy to be cringy.
- 25:11Jennifer Johnson: Apparently.
- 25:12Jennifer Johnson: I am Watch for more cringy videos coming soon.
- 25:15Jennifer Johnson: That's right, I might have to send them over to you and you can tell me it could be like yeah.
- 25:26Evan Cholfin: Yeah, so along those lines it's always.
- 25:31Evan Cholfin: It's always good to have uh to find mentors and mentees.
- 25:38Jennifer Johnson: And.
- 25:39Evan Cholfin: I can't stress enough how important it is to find not just one mentor, but many, and mentors can be not.
- 25:47Evan Cholfin: You know, we always have a stereotypical older person who's been in the field a long time, who's done the thing, but the truth is done the thing.
- 26:03Evan Cholfin: But the truth is they could be younger or they could be your peer, and you know, your kids can actually mentor you in things that you may not know about.
- 26:10Evan Cholfin: It's amazing how much you can learn from other people.
- 26:15Evan Cholfin: So it's always good to have lots of people who can uh to quote unquote mentor you and um, you know, I think the best mentorships are the ones where you set a goal and you, yeah, you set that goal and you actually achieve it, and then you tell your mentor hey, I actually achieved that goal.
- 26:42Evan Cholfin: Because then it makes them feel like they did something, that that, that you've actually, um, accomplished something.
- 26:52Evan Cholfin: And because that's really what most mentors are in it for.
- 26:56Evan Cholfin: They're not in it for anything else other than wow, I actually gave some advice and helped.
- 27:01Evan Cholfin: That's exciting to them, so also obviously having mentees is really important because you're sharpening and honing your craft and anything that you do and you're passing it along to the next generation, which is good.
- 27:27Jennifer Johnson: And I love the whole mentee mentor thing because you know you give out what you're going to get back as well and you know that's so important.
- 27:31Jennifer Johnson: But also you know, like you mentioned, having a mentor that maybe is that untraditional mentor, maybe someone younger than you are is very beneficial.
- 27:41Jennifer Johnson: I have a few in my life that I have learned a lot from, because we can be stuck in our I don't want to say stuck in our ways, but we can be stuck in a rut with.
- 27:51Jennifer Johnson: This is how I've always done it.
- 27:53Jennifer Johnson: But then somebody younger or newer in your industry comes in and is like well, this is a solution that we found and it's worked better for us and it kind of oh wow, yeah, you're right, you know it helps.
- 28:10Jennifer Johnson: So it doesn't matter age or anything like that, it's just who you find that you align with and who understands you, and you know it has to be a good relationship to really play off of each other.
- 28:22Jennifer Johnson: But mentees and mentors are very important.
- 28:27Evan Cholfin: Yeah, definitely.
- 28:27Evan Cholfin: And then the next one.
- 28:31Evan Cholfin: I'd like to say that rejections cost nothing and really you know when you're getting your work out there.
- 28:41Evan Cholfin: You could be turned on a thousand times before you get that one yes and I know personally I have, and I think that's the truth is that one yes is what really matters and so it's okay to get those rejections.
- 29:01Evan Cholfin: Um, and of course you know, sometimes it does sting and you know, but you, you know you go through those, but then you learn that you know it's not that big of a deal, it's okay.
- 29:15Evan Cholfin: You know not, not everyone.
- 29:17Evan Cholfin: You don't need everyone to say yes, um, and whatever you're doing, you just need, uh, you know that that one really important one, you know it's.
- 29:29Evan Cholfin: It's funny Back when, uh, uh, I'm thinking about the Irishman and it took nearly a decade to get made.
- 29:42Evan Cholfin: And that was a gangster movie with Martin Scorsese directing.
- 29:46Evan Cholfin: Right after he did the Departed, had Robert De Niro, al Pacino, joe Pesci attached written by Steve Zalian right after he did American Gangster and all Academy Award winners and sat on the shelf of Paramount until Netflix picked it up and it's amazing that it took that long.
- 30:08Evan Cholfin: But that's you know, just acknowledging those, uh, those rejections and let that fuel you to continue on.
- 30:21Evan Cholfin: I think is really important.
- 30:23Jennifer Johnson: Is that how you deal with rejection?
- 30:26Evan Cholfin: Yeah, yeah, I think I think that you know you take, you take each one and kind of let that feel you and that that makes or let it roll off off your back.
- 30:40Evan Cholfin: It depends on what it is.
- 30:42Evan Cholfin: You know, some are no big deal at all and some things are kind of like oh wow, I really spent a lot of time on that, but you, you just kind of lick your wounds a little bit and then let it feel you for your next opportunity with the mentality that well that wasn't for me or it wasn't for me at the time.
- 31:10Evan Cholfin: Yeah, sometimes it's interesting when you think about in retrospect.
- 31:12Evan Cholfin: You think about timing can also be really important too, and sometimes the timing does play a big factor in in terms of your success and sometimes, I think most of the time, it has very little to do with you and a lot to do with luck.
- 31:37Evan Cholfin: I think I think it was actually Scorsese, speaking of that said that he owes 80% of his career to luck.
- 31:44Evan Cholfin: So that's, you know, pretty incredible filmmaker 100%.
- 31:54Jennifer Johnson: Had a lot of good luck.
- 31:55Jennifer Johnson: Had a lot of good luck.
- 31:57Evan Cholfin: Yeah, and then the last one that I wanted to share is that they want you to succeed, and you know if you're presenting any kind of creative work or idea, and someone's granted you that opportunity.
- 32:14Evan Cholfin: Just remember that they want it to be the best pitch they've ever heard.
- 32:18Evan Cholfin: They want it to be the thing they take to their boss, or the green light in the room.
- 32:23Evan Cholfin: They want it to be something that is going to be the next sliced bread.
- 32:30Evan Cholfin: They, they, because it's just going to make them look good too.
- 32:37Evan Cholfin: And so when you go in with that, that kind of approach, then there you don't look at them as you're not.
- 32:49Evan Cholfin: You're not scared going in because they're on your side.
- 32:54Jennifer Johnson: It brings that scare factor down a little bit at 10%.
- 32:58Jennifer Johnson: Because you sometimes walk into a room and you have to present something and you're like, oh my gosh, these are all really like you know in your world A-listers, right, and you can freak yourself out and freak yourself out of a job or position or whatever it is because you're just like scared.
- 33:19Jennifer Johnson: But if you look at it that way, that helps reframe it a little bit.
- 33:25Jennifer Johnson: Yeah exactly, and that's useful in any anything that people do, whether it's regular life or business.
- 33:34Jennifer Johnson: It's a very useful information, very useful tip, for sure.
- 33:39Jennifer Johnson: Well, thank you.
- 33:42Jennifer Johnson: Yes, I have loved all of these, these thoughts, these, these 10 tips that you've shared with us today have, I think, are going to be very, very useful to our listeners, because they're going to.
- 33:57Jennifer Johnson: There's nuggets in here, there's gold nuggets sprinkled throughout this entire podcast.
- 34:02Jennifer Johnson: Is there anything that we haven't touched on today that you would love our listeners to know?
- 34:12Evan Cholfin: Yeah, I mean, the important thing is, you know, if you're an entrepreneur thing is, you know, if you're an entrepreneur, if you are building a business to, really the biggest thing is to not give up, to believe in yourself and to believe that what you're doing is something that's going to change the world.
- 34:38Evan Cholfin: And it's you know.
- 34:39Evan Cholfin: Being an entrepreneur myself, you know there's days where you just don't want to get out of bed and and it's OK.
- 34:45Evan Cholfin: You know, give yourself some grace.
- 34:48Evan Cholfin: I think it's really important to do that and also know that you will have those days where you'll win, will have those days where you'll win, and so please, you know, give yourself a grace and a space to to, to grieve, but also that know that there's better days.
- 35:08Jennifer Johnson: Yeah, I love that grace and space.
- 35:11Jennifer Johnson: That's wonderful.
- 35:14Jennifer Johnson: Well, evan, if our listeners would like to get in touch with you, how can they do so?
- 35:20Evan Cholfin: Sure, they can just go to Luxhammercom.
- 35:30Jennifer Johnson: I have all my contact info on there or they can follow me at Luxhammer LLC on Instagram Wonderful.
- 35:33Jennifer Johnson: Thank you so much, Evan, for being on our episode today.
- 35:37Evan Cholfin: I really appreciate it.
- 35:38Evan Cholfin: Thank you for having me.