Latest / Connecting with Kenna / How Bulgaria Survived 500 Years Of Ottoman Rule | Ivana Nikolova & Philip Yanakiev | Sofia, Bulgaria

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How Bulgaria Survived 500 Years Of Ottoman Rule | Ivana Nikolova & Philip Yanakiev | Sofia, Bulgaria · Connecting with Kenna

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of Connecting with Kenna.
• 0:03
  Today with me are my friends Philip and Ivana. I met them three years ago here in China and I'm so excited to get into today's episode and talk about their hometown, Sofia, in Bulgaria. I'll pass it over to them to introduce themselves now.
• 0:15
  Thank you, Kenna. As you know already, I'm Philip. I'm from Sofia in Bulgaria.
• 0:20
  And I'll pass over to Ivana.
• 0:24
  Well, you are probably wondering who I am, as it was not said twice, but I'm Ivana. And actually, fun fact, Kenna was the first person that I saw on campus when I arrived.
• 0:35
  So true. That's so cute. Back when we were like 18, 19. Well, I was 19. Almost 20. So I actually was 19 as well. What?
• 0:45
  Yeah. I turned 19 before coming. I think we're six months apart.
• 0:49
  Wait, are you 2004? Yes.
• 0:51
  Oh, I'm 2003. Oh, okay.
• 0:54
  I'll go.
• 0:54
  No, I didn't. Philip was 18, okay.
• 0:56
  I thought that you were like 2005 or something.
• 1:01
  Philip was also 19.
• 1:02
  Would you guys want to give a little intro in Bulgarian, just so people can understand what that language sounds like, or just give a little intro?
• 1:08
  Okay, maybe Philip can go first, because I'm a little nervous.
• 1:11
  It's my first podcast.
• 1:12
  Здравейте. Казвам се Филип.
• 1:20
  Идвам от България.
• 1:26
  Изключително много се радвам да представя нашият град и държава и известна част от културата на България в рамките на следващите няколко минути.
• 2:09
  Здравейте, аз съм Ивана, а роден е израснал в София.
• 2:27
  But a lot of people know English fairly well. And they communicate with the you know world that's beyond the border. Uh almost, you know, every day. That's just a given in our world.
• 2:40
  Um as to the other activities, you know, Sofia is a lively place.
• 2:46
  We have a lot of um very good uh you know, public spaces where events are happening all the time, people are gathering, they are having a fun time together, uh eating, drinking, or whatever.
• 3:01
  Yeah, I would say that in certain parts of Bulgaria also Turkish is spoken.
• 3:05
  It's the primary language of um, you know, those people because we have a very large like Turkish population. Um I don't think that in Sofia you would hear it as often as like parts of South in the South. Um I would say when we were kids and even teenagers, it's like life in Sofia specifically, it's like very different.
• 3:33
  I think kids and um teenagers used to go out a lot more.
• 3:38
  And I remember, you know, all of the the schools, um how would you say like uh Dvor?
• 3:48
  Oh the um like the outside space campus. Yeah, like the campus.
• 3:53
  Yeah, it's like the outside space. It was always full, like you were there was no space for you, and it's only the older kids that you know have authority over the best spot, so you you don't even have a place to to play. Um, and now it's just empty.
• 4:08
  Um, but I think for us, for more like 20s and um for people in their 20s and obviously older people, it's we we have a a lot of activities.
• 4:21
  I think some of my favorite are the rivers of Sofia, um, very beautiful.
• 4:26
  They turn the canals and uh into spaces that people just um you know hang out, kids can play, it's very beautiful, has um music. Um there's also the long table, which I have not participated in because I'm very shy. Um, but it's essentially a very, very, very long table. Um I don't know, maybe a kilometer, maybe more.
• 4:48
  I I'm not sure. And it's just random people sit together, they eat, they get to know each other, and it's very beautiful. Um, when you look at it, and there's a lot of lights festivals, um I don't know their names, but very beautiful. Um, but I think now it's it's kind of turning into, in my opinion, more of like a European city. Because I think before we still had a lot of brutalist looking buildings and now they're trying to bring more color and repainting. Um, so I think it's it definitely has gotten more lively.
• 5:25
  That sounds beautiful. Do you think that a lot of do you think that the reason why a lot of kids aren't outside anymore is because of technology? And also, um, is your city really walkable? It sounds like there's a lot of places to sit, relax outside, and just enjoy time with family and friends. To an extent definitely technology plays a role.
• 5:43
  Um, but I think I mean obviously I can't speculate because my parents always told me just go out, so they're not one of those parents, but I guess to an extent parents are not as willing to maybe allow their kids to go outside. It's not that it's very dangerous, I don't think it is, but there are a lot of different factors that can contribute into that.
• 6:09
  But um to your second question, what was your second question?
• 6:15
  Is it the walkable oh yes? I walk everywhere. I do not I really like our public transport, I think it's great. Um, but I prefer if I can walk, then I can walk.
• 6:26
  I can walk like 10 kilometers. It's not an issue for me. And it was very funny during the World Cup when all the Europeans were, oh okay, we're going to just like walk to, I don't know, like Kansas City Stadium, and all the Americans were like, you can't do that. And then all the Europeans just walked. Because I think it's just it's very normalized to just walk anywhere. Um, and I think taking a car for something that like a distance of less than I don't know, three kilometers, I think it's just not very common.
• 6:59
  Yeah, I I would agree. Um, I mean, uh, to the first point, I think my parents, they uh they even forced me to go outside and they said, go, you know, go into the city, get lost, learn the names of major streets so that you can describe where you're going to us if you need help, uh, you know, find new people to do that with, uh, and just interact the to the best of your ability uh with your friends.
• 7:25
  Um and I think what really was valuable, they um, you know, when even in in primary school, they were like, oh yeah, you can just go by yourself, go home after school by yourself, you just walk or take the bus if if it's uh you know uh a bit farther away.
• 7:42
  Um but I think that's really valuable for forming connections and and um you know having a good social life or a good balance of social and professional life.
• 7:53
  And on on walkability, of course, uh Sophia, when they were designing the modern layout, um it was a lot like uh Vienna actually, sort of um circular in a sense and um very closely spaced together buildings so that could get there more easily. Um and even today, for the most part, yeah, unless you're going from one end of the city to the other, uh you can walk anywhere, and um of course. Nowadays we have uh a very good subway, very good buses, and very good trams. And they they're always on time, they come every five minutes or so, sometimes every three minutes if it's rush hour.
• 8:35
  Um but there's still a pleasure in walking and just taking in the sights.
• 8:40
  Yeah.
• 8:40
  Yeah.
• 8:41
  Um I would say going back to the the weather technology is part of the issue as to why kids don't go outside. I think um when we were kids, having phones was also not something very common. And so the only way that you can actually talk and see your friends was going outside. And because we didn't have phones, sometimes you would have to yell, like just go in front of their building and just start yelling and just hope that either the your friend or their mom or dad or whoever was home would hear so they would know that you were there and asking them to play.
• 9:18
  And now it's very easy to stay connected with your friends, and um, of course, because of those of the public transport, I think a lot of kids go by themselves to school.
• 9:30
  Um, and so most kids have phones, and it's very easy to just talk to your friend.
• 9:35
  You don't really need to just go outside because there were a lot of times that I would have preferred to not go outside to meet my friends, but I didn't have a choice, so I had to go outside. Um, I think it's good that they're not disconnected and they still have social life. It's just that obviously going outside from time to time it's beneficial for them.
• 9:53
  But yeah, I've noticed in the US as well a lot of kids are more connected to their friends because they're online with like Snapchat, Instagram, all those different social media apps.
• 10:03
  But I think it's isolating kids more than ever and making them more depressed and anxious. And I literally heard from I think it was a neuroscientist that just going for a walk for 20 to 30 minutes can just calm your nervous system.
• 10:17
  And I think just being outside is really good for kids exploring, like getting lost in the city like your parents told you to do is so important.
• 10:24
  And so many kids are losing out on that because of technology, and that makes me so sad. Um, I think I want to get your guys' opinion.
• 10:31
  I don't know if it's like this in Bulgaria, but I think a lot of parents in the US get anxious because social media um like talks about kidnappings or different um horrific tragedies, and I think this makes parents anxious to let their kids go out on their own, and then they feel um like it would be their fault if their kid got hurt or they're they just feel like the world is more dangerous than it was when they were kids.
• 10:55
  Um yeah.
• 10:57
  Um I think my dad has always said how now, in terms of safety, it's a lot better because I think both of our parents um were living well, they're low-nef years.
• 11:12
  In in sort of communist times or socialist times.
• 11:16
  Socialist.
• 11:16
  Um when uh the danger was more from the police rather than from criminals because they my father has told me when anything in his neighborhood disappeared, right?
• 11:28
  Got stolen, like they rounded up all the teenagers and just beat the beat them up a bit.
• 11:34
  Uh you know, so that they kept on their good behavior. Nowadays uh that doesn't happen, but um we were born both of us were born uh shortly after the 90s, and that was a uh horrible time. Uh time of with a great uh spike in crime because of all the transitions of you know going to like becoming a market economy and whatnot.
• 11:54
  And but uh as you say, I think nowadays it's it's very peaceful, and even as we were starting to go to school, it was uh very peaceful, I think, at least for me.
• 12:05
  Yeah, I think uh there were especially in Sofia, there were some parts of it that were maybe not as safe, especially after I think the 2010s, 2011s. Um I I think in general it's a lot better than before, especially the 90s. Um a lot of organized crime groups and they were um you know murders every single day, just out in the open, you know, somebody was just having coffee outside and somebody just was driving and shot them, and that was kind of like the daily um landscape, um, especially in Sofia, but everywhere in Bulgaria. And after I think maybe we joined the European Union, things kind of started getting a little better. I think now there are no issues, and I don't think anybody thinks that you'll get kidnapped, um, or your child would get kidnapped. It's not um a part of even our mindset.
• 13:04
  I think an issue is drivers. I think we have you can correct me if I'm wrong, uh but I've I've read somewhere that we have um oh, can I say it in Bulgarian?
• 13:17
  If I don't know how to translate it.
• 13:19
  Yeah.
• 13:33
  So I think just you know, if you are going outside, if your kid is going outside, you're not going to really say just try not to get kidnapped, but you you 1000% say just make sure that like you stop by old lights and you just like look out and watch out for for cars. I think that's the that's the the the main um concern of parents, but not really kidnappings or murders or anything of this sort.
• 13:58
  That's not something that happens.
• 14:00
  So I wanted to ask what was the reason for all the killings and just random not random but violence in 1990, in the 1990s in Bulgaria? Yeah. Could you go into the history and just talk about that?
• 14:14
  Yeah, so um obviously um before the 90s and before the transition, it was a time where um kind of everybody was poor. Um and obviously having opportunity to get more money was on a lot of people's minds. And so a lot of athletes, mostly wrestlers, um started also the the the people who were doing judo.
• 14:42
  Yeah, judo wrestlers the martial arts, martial arts in general, yeah. Um, they started to become businessmen. Um, but in general it was just organized um crime groups. And so it was um I mean can I can I interject for a a second?
• 14:58
  They were you know like a classic racket scheme. So they would you know force you to buy insurance, and if you didn't buy insurance, they they'd come and beat you up, basically.
• 15:09
  If you were a business owner or something, especially the the kind of the most famous ones were insurance guy, brothers. Um and it was a matter all those murders were a matter just of competition.
• 15:24
  Um nothing else. It's just trying to stay in the game and trying to assort dominance in a way.
• 15:30
  Um, and out of those people, and there were many people at the time, um, I think only about two, three, four, four people with remain, um or are still alive. Um, yeah, out of many. And it's again, I I think what's interesting is genuinely it's mostly, if not all, were just martial arts students and students from the sports schools.
• 15:59
  But there's also uh in in addition to to these athletes uh that became uh mobsters, uh there was um also this phenomenon where the people who worked in the former state security departments, they you know they they had a lot of um power over ordinary people uh because of all the dossiers that they kept uh of their activities and whatnot. They also uh I mean they they had all the best connections to the large state-owned enterprises. And so when change came they just, you know captured they were there in those enterprises already, so they they just remained there and uh you know transitioned into being businessmen from being you know installed there by the state and they bought them for very for for very little money when when privatization came around and they just you know continued operating them as they had before.
• 16:57
  Uh so that was uh also they were the other major group that uh remained in power.
• 17:05
  So who were these men targeting?
• 17:08
  I think what's interesting is the fa I think the mobster part, it's mostly men. But then with regarding to with regards to what's capturing the state-out enterprises, it's a lot of like women as well. And even the mother of a certain oligarch right now, um, she is also one of those people, and I think that that has enabled him to control the whole Bulgaria. I think like if we if we are to just like talk about it's like such a broad Yeah, it's like it's it's it's very it's very layered. Um, because it explains a lot of like the issues that we have, and it's just even those people that capture had different interests and they're competing with each other, and it's just like you know.
• 17:51
  It's like we need a whole new episode.
• 17:53
  We have to we need a whole new episode of just maybe history of like Bulgaria's transition.
• 17:58
  Should we? Yeah, or like yeah, or Bulgarian Bulgaria's transition.
• 18:03
  Not China's economic transition, but Bulgaria's transition.
• 18:05
  No, that would actually be amazing. We're gonna talk more about this on episode two of Bulgaria's history. Okay, so moving on. I could you give a short rundown of Bulgaria's history, just like a very brief um explanation, also different religions.
• 18:20
  Maybe you brought that up, um, and just maybe different ethnic groups within Bulgaria.
• 18:24
  If you'd like to share that. So oh, okay.
• 18:28
  Should I start?
• 18:30
  Yeah.
• 18:30
  Okay. So um, I mean, the land where the modern country is uh located in has been inhabited for uh many millennia. Um you know the oldest golden treasure in the world is in the Varna necropolis.
• 18:44
  But over the years there have been uh Thracians, then uh Greek.
• 18:49
  Of course, when the proto-Bulgarians came and they mixed with the local peoples, the sort of modern well not modern state, but the state bearing the modern name Bulgaria was established in 681. Since then there's been you know a lot of expansion, a lot of contraction. Um historically the Byzantine Empire was uh our big enemy at first, right? They um really wanted to get what they had lost. And um at points we beat them, they beat us. Uh you know, the dream of every Bulgarian is uh to see the country expand to its three sea outlets, right? The Adriatic, the Aegean, and the Black Sea. Uh and that's happened uh a few times.
• 19:40
  Uh then there was a brief spell under the Byzantine Empire, then independence again, then about 500 years under Ottoman rule, and towards the end of the 19th century, uh the country became its own thing once more. Uh in the early 20th century, um you know two major national catastrophes following the two Balkan Wars and the First World War.
• 20:07
  The interwar years were um very productive for us, a great economic growth, then 1945, um another catastrophe uh with the Red Army sweeping through the country, it brought the communists to power who reigned until 1989, and then since the 1990s, um we've been a market economy. Uh obviously that happened truly in the early 2000s because those 10 years were uh a mix of the two systems.
• 20:39
  And that's uh very brief rundown on it.
• 20:42
  Um so for religion uh our main religion is Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
• 20:51
  And um it became our official religion um about 160 years ago, um under under under Knazbury the first.
• 21:05
  Um and we were the first um well country or um I I mean I guess but that was allowed to to worship and to have a liturgy and and and use our own language um for obviously religious purposes. Um because at that time it was only allowed to use Greek, Hebrew, um and Latin.
• 21:35
  I have a quick question that enforces those rules on what language you can worship in.
• 21:41
  So it's uh sorry. Uh it's uh so the the three languages, the trilingual dogma it was called.
• 21:47
  Um and it was such because obviously the Bible, the Old Testament was written in in Hebrew and in Greek, and then the New Testament in Greek. And with the Roman Empire gaining enormous power, Latin obviously had to be used uh within its own bounds.
• 22:05
  And um after Christianity was uh established as the empire's main religion, of course, the Pope in Rome as the successor of Saint Peter, uh that meant continuity and Latin and in uh Constantinople at the time, uh of course the the Eastern Roman Empire was Greek for the most part in its constitution, uh and they spoke Greek and they used Greek for everything. Um so in that sense Greek was the language of worship there, and the liturgies were all conducted um in those languages across across the world at the time, um and that was um as a you know a form of also uh making sure that Rome and Constantinople had the highest level of influence and political power in a sense over over Europe.
• 23:03
  Yeah.
• 23:04
  Yeah. Um there's besides orthodoxy, there is um Islam.
• 23:11
  Um under the Ottomans, there were a lot of forced conversions.
• 23:16
  Um and then there's also um well we have a lot of Jews in Bulgaria, I think uh uh a substantial amount, so I think those are the the the three main um oh we have uh uh a substantial Armenian population as well.
• 23:38
  So Coptic who who came after the uh the genocide in 1916 and Greek people also quite I mean we were talking about religions.
• 23:49
  Oh really oh sorry, sorry. No, but ethnic minorities as well, no.
• 23:54
  Oh, it was that part of the question.
• 23:56
  Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
• 23:58
  And uh Greeks and um some Vlachs from from Romania.
• 24:04
  Yeah, yeah.
• 24:05
  Um yeah, there's uh uh I have met more Armenians in Bulgaria than I think any other um kind of ethnicity, um well, except Turkish, obviously, um, which I think it's very interesting.
• 24:24
  Um, but yeah, so I guess in a sense also than Coptic Christianity, because Coptic and Eastern are um different and they're not in uh communion, so they're kind of different, really.
• 24:39
  Could you explain the difference between Coptic Christianity and also Orthodox Christianity or Eastern Orthodox Christianity?
• 24:45
  Yeah, so the main um the main difference um in what so they kind of separated in the middle of the fifth century.
• 25:01
  And the main theological difference is the way that they explain or the words that they use to explain um God's nature or Jesus' nature. Um Eastern Orthodox, though the way that they explain it is that Jesus has two natures, fully God or fully divine and fully human.
• 25:25
  And then Coptic Christians, the way that they say it is Jesus has one form that is fully divine and fully human at the same time. Essentially, they kind of mean the same thing.
• 25:38
  Um that very big um, well, obviously it's big if they separated, but it cost a big um, well, fight between obviously not physical, but just in terms of theology. Um and so they they separated, but there were also a different things that are not related to theology, I uh you know, because Eastern um, you know, they have supported some saints or have um worship some saints that the Coptics did not, and the Coptics had the Pope of Alexandria and the Eastern did not.
• 26:24
  And so um the main theological difference is the the nature of Jesus.
• 26:29
  Um from thank you for that explanation. Um so to get this straight, the Coptic Christians believe in one God, but they believe Jesus can be both human and God at the same time or separately.
• 26:45
  So um essentially we believe uh the same things. Um they have a couple of additional books that they um that they used, um, and uh they're a lot stricter in terms of uh fasting and um prayer times than Eastern currently. Um but it's basically just Jesus.
• 27:07
  Essentially, Jesus is fully human and fully divine, fully God, right? It's just the way that they say it. I believe it's kind of the same, they mean the same thing. It's just the way that they say it, it's different. So so Coptic, Jesus has one nature.
• 27:26
  He he has only one nature that is at the same time fully divine and fully human.
• 27:31
  While Eastern is like Jesus has two forms that is one is divine and one is human.
• 27:39
  Thank you for that explanation. Um, I also have another question, and um it's regarding the different religions within Bulgaria.
• 27:48
  Were there any religions that forced religion upon another one?
• 27:53
  Like um Islam forced Christianity to convert, or Christians forced um Muslims to convert, or different um religions as well.
• 28:04
  Yeah, I think to start this, we need to go back to when Bulgaria actually the kind of the whole country converted and made Christianity a official religion because at that time the proto-Bulgarians they believed in their main god was Stangra, and they had their own religion, and then the Slavic tribes um they were worshipping Birun, and so um they had their own religion, and it was traitian tribes.
• 28:36
  The tracian tribes did their own their own pagan rituals and everything.
• 28:40
  So it's very hard to have uh, I mean, especially at that time, I suppose, um, to have a country and um you know try to sustain it being a country when so many different um well not so many, but three main ethnic groups worship different gods and do different things because the proto-Bulgarians were more of uh horsemen, they were more in into battles, um, while the Slavs are more agriculture centered.
• 29:15
  Um and so there needed to be uh unification, and so our um ruler Knyas Buris um he thought that yeah religion, Christianity was the right move, and actually we were supposed to, well, I'm not sure if we were supposed to, but the Pope sent a letter.
• 29:40
  Yeah, so he very cleverly I I think um asked both the Pope and the Patriarch in Constantinople uh to give him you know uh a Christian title equivalent to uh emperor essentially, right? So in the under the Eastern Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire that would be in um you know something akin to uh Basileus, which is the highest level of power, and previously Bulgarian rulers had been awarded the title of Kesar, which is uh very much like the Roman Caesar, meaning emperor.
• 30:15
  And so he felt that for the sake of continuity and given past history, they can uh that he could claim that and that he could unify through Christianity the whole country into one. Uh and as you said, the Pope gave him a very um uh uh uh like a very positive answer and was willing to go ahead, but he thought that Constantinople being much closer geographically and having much more influence in the region, and at that point the Eastern Roman Empire, of course, uh was you know at the height of its power, Rome proper was uh waning, uh unfortunately. And uh he thought that he could gain more political points, right? Legitimacy from Constantinople if he went ahead with them. So that's why that's what he did.
• 31:08
  So that's I guess if you want to talk about forcing religion, I think that was the the first time that that has happened. Um, and then the second time um was during the Ottoman Empire, um, where if you do not want to pay taxes, which the the worst tax was the blood tax, which is they go around and they get your sons, especially they if they're young, so they don't remember you, uh, for the genissary, which is uh the army of the Sultan that are made up of just Christian um or boys from Christian families, obviously no longer Christian.
• 31:51
  Um, so a lot of people that wanted to save their um kids would convert, but um obviously many did not, which is why we remained a predominantly Christian country. Um I think this is one of the one of the things, many things that I admire about Bulgarians, um, which is resistance.
• 32:18
  And we have managed to um, you know, not only keep our religion, but our language, our practices, our culture in general, um, which is amazing. It's 500 years. Um, and you know, those people did not even know about Bulgaria.
• 32:37
  They have never lived under, like, or have they have never lived in a country called Bulgaria.
• 32:43
  So for them it was an idea um and it was something from the past, but they still, you know, are fighting for it. And um, you know, it especially keeping religion keep keeping their religion is I I think something very hard for them, like in those days to to to do. And um in Bulgaria it's very interesting how you say no and yes. I think now it's kind of I think the younger generation is kind of using the you know, this is a yes and this is a no, but um, especially older people, and I think for me it's a little mixed. I think it depends. Um, you would do this as kind of like a no, and you would be like, and then for um yes, you would do this. Yeah, um, and I think that I have heard stems from when being asked, do you convert to Islam? Because uh, you know, the villages they would gather them and do you convert to Islam? And some people would really don't want to do that.
• 33:40
  Um, but so they would just nod, and that kind of became um, you know, a symbol of actually no instead of yes, which is very interesting.
• 33:51
  That is really interesting. So if I went to Bulgaria and I ordered a drink, for example, and they asked if I wanted to add something into it.
• 33:59
  If I wanted to say no, I would shake my head yes. Yeah, you would be like that's interesting.
• 34:04
  Thank you for sharing that. Um do you think that the reason why language and tradition and religion is so carefully preserved in Bulgaria is because of the daily rituals, tradition, um, the way you come together as a family. What has preserved that?
• 34:25
  Well, language I think is uh a very interesting point here. It's of course uh uh again it was created especially for the purpose of of unifying these various peoples into a nation.
• 34:36
  Um and uh the original purpose behind the Glagolithic uh script, which is what preceded Cyrillic, uh it was made by these two brothers, Cyrus and Methodius. They were Greeks from uh modern-day Thessaloniki, and it was again made on on uh Byzantine orders so that they could absorb culturally the region. Uh but then our own scholars went ahead and and uh created the Sibyllic script and uh old Bulgarian, and that you know spread spread around, spread uh all the hymns and chants and whatnot.
• 35:17
  Uh and not only in the country, it throughout Eastern Europe, right? Through Serbia, Chechia, Poland, uh Belarus, uh Russia, and whatnot.
• 35:27
  Nowadays Russia.
• 35:29
  Yeah. Kievan, uh Rus first, of course, uh what's today Ukraine.
• 35:33
  Um and uh uh yeah, that's just a side fact, I'm sorry. But uh because we you know language was so intrinsically tied to culture, the fact that this permission from the Pope was uh obtained to use your own language for your own religious purposes, that also really kept that consciousness alive through the ages. And uh rituals, of course, uh you know, family is very important to us.
• 36:01
  Uh nowadays everyone says that. Uh, you know, if you watch a Fast and Furious film like they went to the moon on the power of family. Um but you know, saying it is different to actually doing it.
• 36:15
  And uh for us, you know, uh uh a family meal that's sacred, right?
• 36:20
  There's always uh order, like who sits at the table, who who gets served first, you know, how you address your uh elders, how how you behave at the table, that's uh you know, that's sacred. Breaking bread is you know, bread is like one of the most uh important food items, right?
• 36:40
  Not you cannot allow it to to drop on the floor or to let it go to waste because it's so valuable, yeah. And food, I I feel like that's that's our love language nowadays, right? If you really like if you'd really like to do something for someone, you cook for them.
• 36:57
  So we had to cut this episode um because a man, we're in the library right now, started taking photos of us, taking videos, and his ringer was on, so you could hear the pictures being taken. And and then his phone ringer or ringtone started going off, and it was the YMCA song. So that's great. And then Ivana individually chased him, and then Philip did. Ivana asked him to delete the photos and videos because we told him not to take videos of us, but he did anyway.
• 37:26
  Well, we were talking about like a really lovely conversation, um, talking about how breaking bread is very sacred in Bulgaria, coming together as a family for mealtimes is very sacred as well.
• 37:35
  I think that's a really beautiful thing. And I'm thinking maybe this is a good transition into food in Bulgaria. What's food like? What do you remember eating growing up?
• 37:44
  What was your favorite food? If you could eat food right now, what would it be? If I was transported to Bulgaria right now, what dishes would I eat? And what would you want me to try first?
• 37:55
  Should we want to take it?
• 37:57
  Hard questions, hard questions. Um well when I was younger, what I remember uh from when I was in kindergarten, my favorite thing was well, just like a plain piece of bread with like butter and chubriza, which is um salt and other like spices, I guess. Um it's called colorful salt, yeah. It's a plenty of spices.
• 38:30
  Oh my gosh. And if you the in my kindergarten, the first like five people that ate their lunch would get like like um filia, like that's how you call it. And I always tried to finish first.
• 38:46
  Um, I think the only times that I couldn't was when we had um spinach.
• 38:50
  Um, like no, I like spinach, don't get me wrong, but it was like just belly done spinach.
• 38:55
  Like I still the fact that I remember this 20 years later says a lot.
• 39:00
  Um, but I really like okay, couscous is not like um Bulgarian food, but uh couscous with cinnamon.
• 39:07
  Yeah.
• 39:08
  It's like I really like it. I really cinnamon is uh a special bulgarian.
• 39:14
  Bulgarian cheese. You know, feta cheese, it's uh pretty similar, but in my opinion, a lot better. Um, just how Bulgarian kissum blagues is so much better than Greek yogurt, and it's more um it has it's healthier. It's healthier, it has a specific bacteria um that um is only in Bulgaria, Lactopotilikus Bulgaricus. Um and yeah, so I think when I was a kid, it's definitely Philia. But um what else do they like? I didn't I don't remember much from when I was a kid in terms of like what I was eating, except those two.
• 39:52
  Because I would sometimes go and hide and just take pieces of bread, and then my grandpa would be like, You get fat, like you should stop eating uh so much, because he he they know obviously the bread is disappearing.
• 40:02
  Who who is it who is eating all the bread? Telling me. I was like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. And he's like one day you you remember, oh grandpa said this once upon a time, and he was right. He it didn't mean it was right, but you know, so but currently my favorite food for the past maybe I don't know more than 10 years, it's stuffed peppers with kisum laco.
• 40:28
  With kisum laco, 1000%.
• 40:31
  I have a question. Do you can you stuff like anything? Is it beef, um, and other veggies? Because in the US, I would make stuffed peppers with my mom sometimes growing up, and we do ground beef with different veggies and maybe rice inside.
• 40:43
  Yeah. What would what do you guys add?
• 40:45
  It's rice and then veggies, and depends um if obviously we're fasting, um no meat. Um, but if you're not, then I uh minced beef um with like rice and the vegetables.
• 40:59
  Yeah, and then on top you would put uh like a mixture of um quiso muraco um and I think eggs, right? And eggs, and it's uh it's very nice.
• 41:10
  Before going on to Philip's favorite foods, um what is fasting like there?
• 41:14
  I have I'm wondering what it's like in Bulgaria and how you guys fasted growing up.
• 41:19
  So I think it really depends. Um I think ha nobody or not nobody, but it it it's not something talked about a lot. I think one of the reasons is the fact that especially in Christianity, fasting it's something between you and God, and you don't really like announce it to everybody. It's not really a common practice to do that.
• 41:42
  Um and then the other is that there are not that many people fasting, I think. Um, or many as or maybe as many as before, especially my age.
• 41:51
  Um, in general, fasting in orthodoxy is a Wednesday and Friday.
• 41:58
  Um it's no it's just vegan. I I think it depends. Again, it depends on your family, but the easier version is just vegan. Um, the harder version is just a black fast, so no food, no water, no nothing. Um and Coptic and the Coptic Christians and the Christians that or the Orthodox Christians that fast in general, that are I mean also Eastern fast for about 200, more than 200 days a year.
• 42:30
  Um when it comes to fast before Lent, it's usually one meal a day. Um and vegan, no oil, no nothing, for about more than 40 days. Uh for uh Lent before uh Easter it's about 50.
• 42:50
  Um and before Christmas is around, I think, 40. Um but depends again on how hard in your family and just the traditions.
• 43:02
  Um doing those, like the the days during Lent, um not only you have one meal a day, but for example, you have maybe a four hour window um where you can only drink water and then rest of the day you can't.
• 43:19
  But again, it really depends. I think in Bulgaria, most people just stick to the vegan, um, to the vegan um fast. And I mean my uncle especially, um, he's a very serious like faster.
• 43:41
  Um he he I think hearing even the word fast, I think, for the first time came from him.
• 43:45
  I mean for me in terms of food, um, there are a couple of uh couple of things that I I always look forward to. And whenever I I travel back home, I I say please make sure that there's that on the table. One is uh we call it banitza, it's um yeah, these layers of phyllo pastry that you brush with butter, and then every five or so you put the the the like Bulgarian white cheese that we and a little bit of kashkaval also is like just a little bit.
• 44:17
  Really? I think just a little bit.
• 44:20
  And you know you you lather it on until your baking tray is full, and then you pour a mixture of um egg, butter, um, and some sort of um baking agent, meaning baking soda, or uh nowadays uh a lot of people do sparkling water, it works quite well actually, yeah. And you bake that and it becomes crispy and soft and very moist on the inside, it's really good. Um something I really enjoy uh when I'm traveling is um we call it Givetch, where I mean I don't know, that's my my love of the mountains, but on on Sundays, right, in the morning, usually would be my uncle, myself, and my brother, we would go into the forest and collect mushrooms.
• 45:04
  We do um mostly porcinis, or only porcinis because they're uh you know edible and and all of us recognize them. And they're delicious. And then we did they have an evil twin?
• 45:14
  Yeah. Uh but the evil twin goes blue when you cut it, right?
• 45:19
  So that's how we know. Um and then it's a real labor of love to make it because you need to take potatoes, carrots, uh, eggplant, courgettes, you know, peppers, and obviously uh your meat, either usually beef or or chicken, and you first uh pre-cook that and then you put them all together to bake, uh and it you know takes half a day practically. But it's delicious, uh and uh you know everyone loves it.
• 45:52
  But I think traditional breakfast usually another Philip said banita, so I think it's for example, a traditional breakfast would be banitza um with um I mean on the table, you would have like a couple of different things. I mean, when my grandma she is she was cook, and uh I mean everybody says that for their grandma, but in general, when you're at your grandma's house, I think mothers tend to not go as hard.
• 46:19
  Um, but your grandma would put banitza um burjini filet or French toast. Um but for us it's just burjnifil or mikita, uh, which is um just a like fried dough. It's kind of it's a little similar to yotya, but not not, it doesn't taste the same. Like it doesn't even have the same form, but it's kind of similar in the way that you make it. Um you would have vegetables, um, so tomato, well, tomato is a fruit, sorry, tomato, cucumber, olives. Um, my grandma would stuff like just green pepper with a lot of syrup in it.
• 47:04
  Oh, yeah, that's great.
• 47:04
  Um, and you would have, you know, some dried meats, like cut um kashkava, which is another type of boger and cheese, seed in it, and then you have airan, which is um it's it's a drink. Um it's kiseumlaco, so like yogurt with water and salt. Um I love it.
• 47:27
  I drink it every single I drink it all the time. It's the best.
• 47:31
  I think homemade is the best, obviously, but uh but it's also not bad.
• 47:35
  Um I used to like it when I was younger.
• 47:41
  I think now I haven't had it in probably like two, three years.
• 47:45
  I think I grew out of it. Uh it's a fermented drink.
• 47:49
  Um, it's um so it's either wheat or rye that you ferment with water and then you put some sugar in that. Um yeah, and it it you know, you either love it or you hate it.
• 48:04
  Yeah, there's no in between, yeah.
• 48:06
  No in between.
• 48:06
  It's like cilantro.
• 48:07
  Kind of, oh I'm on the hate side on cilantro.
• 48:09
  See I wanted to ask, is it alcoholic or is it just fermented?
• 48:13
  No, no, it's just fermented, like butcher or something. Yeah.
• 48:16
  Okay, so like kids can drink it. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, of course.
• 48:19
  And I think in general for the other meals, you 1,000% are going to have a salad, 1000% going to have a soup, and then 1000% going to have anything that has meat.
• 48:29
  So salads are big on salads and big on soups. Um, my favorite salad is Uvcharska salad, uh, which is the yassified version of uh the I think it's technically our national dish, Shopska Salata? Is it not?
• 48:46
  No, but like the the Uvcharska Salata, like that's like a shepherd salad.
• 48:50
  That's existed for a very long time. It's right, so you take your tomatoes, your cucumbers, peppers, onion, and most importantly, you know, baked peppers, red peppers, and you mix them in with some cheese as well.
• 49:06
  Sirene, yeah. Sirene, yeah.
• 49:08
  And then olives.
• 49:09
  Yeah.
• 49:09
  And you add a little bit of meat.
• 49:11
  Oh, I like it without meat, but really, yeah. But then I like both.
• 49:16
  Depends. You know, that's delicious, yeah.
• 49:17
  But yeah, it it's that's my favorite. Um, and kyopu.
• 49:21
  Kyopu and lutin it's uh yeah.
• 49:23
  I I don't know if it's it's salads or spreads. I I think lutinita is a spread.
• 49:28
  Kyopu is a salad, but they're technically the same consistency, so obviously there's something wrong with my perception. Um, and then soups.
• 49:37
  Well, let's explain what they are. Oh, yeah. So you bake uh eggplants and then you mash them into a paste. You mix in some parsley, some um some garlic, and a lot of spices.
• 49:57
  And you eat it, you can eat it either on its own or on a little piece of uh toast.
• 50:04
  Both ways it's delicious, and Lutin is uh a true labor of love.
• 50:07
  So you start, you know, with your tomatoes, you grind them down into tomato juice, then you take peppers, bake them, grind them down into a paste, you take ectans, grind them down into a paste, uh, you take carrots, grind them down into a paste after baking them, and then you put all of these together and you boil for you know many hours in this very large vats.
• 50:34
  Does it thicken after you cook it for a long time?
• 50:35
  Yeah, yeah. And then obviously you put it in jars and store it for all winter.
• 50:43
  Yeah. Uh but that's you know, that's I think one of the best things.
• 50:48
  Yeah.
• 50:48
  Yeah.
• 50:49
  That sounds lovely. I'd love to try it. Sorry, we we talked so much about it.
• 50:55
  I'm like hungry now. We talked so much about food. No, but it's good.
• 50:58
  Um, so I want I have a question. If you could choose one spice to put into all the Bulgarian dishes, what would it be? Like, what's the most popular spice that you couldn't live without?
• 51:06
  Oh you could do multiple as well, but I'm interested in what spices are most commonly used there.
• 51:12
  I think we use a lot of herbs.
• 51:14
  Yeah.
• 51:16
  Um I feel like rosemary actually. I don't know if you can that as maybe Georgian.
• 51:22
  I feel like it's Georgian. That's true. I think spearmint in English.
• 51:26
  Spearmint. Is that really?
• 51:27
  It's it's a type of mint. I'm not sure which type though.
• 51:31
  I don't know. Um I think I don't know if I can choose one. I think it's a lot I really like putting a lot of herbs and um only one.
• 51:43
  I don't know. To be completely honest, maybe not uh a salt is not a spice, but so if it doesn't have salt, it doesn't matter what kind of spice it has, it's not going to taste good.
• 51:53
  Yeah, the dishes you're explaining, in drinks, there's a lot of salt.
• 51:56
  It's a lot of salt. Uh I don't know if I think I can live without spices, but without salt, I don't think I can manage. Because even for kyppol, uh yeah, you put a lot of spice, a lot of like herbs and stuff like that.
• 52:06
  But without salt, it's not going to work.
• 52:09
  Yeah. It sounds like everything's so fresh there too. So salt adds to that.
• 52:12
  We are yeah, I think of a big difference, I guess, between American and Bulgarian or even a lot of different col a lot of other quiz national cuisines is that we barely fry anything. Wow.
• 52:26
  I think maybe just like mikiti, but in or like bugti, like some of these like sweet stuff, but you don't really eat them every day.
• 52:35
  But our everyday dishes, you don't really fry anything.
• 52:38
  Do people often cook their own bread as well, or do you buy packaged bread?
• 52:42
  Or are there a lot of bakeries like in France or other countries like that?
• 52:46
  I think it's a mix of both.
• 52:48
  I think it just depends. Uh, if you're very busy, I think it's uh obviously like we have a lot of a lot of options of bread. Um my mom makes her own bread, and my grandma used to make her own bread.
• 52:59
  Um, and my grandma now makes her own bread. So you just um I think I guess I guess it depends, but there are still a lot of bakeries. Um, and people go and especially banitsa is something that's our kind of um our street food. It's kind of banitza and uh other like meats, meaty dishes like uh kyftete and kevabta, which is just meat, just grilled meat. Like that's kind of our like version of a burger, I guess. Oh, and doing that, but do they um we can we need a whole another episode on just food?
• 53:33
  Food, I think.
• 53:34
  Yeah, we can go into all the different topics. I should break up my podcast like that, maybe. Um, I had a question. Is tea and coffee there popular, or is it mostly just like yogurt and like juices? Or what's popular drinks there?
• 53:49
  And is drinking culture heavy there? Like alcoholic? Maybe Philip can answer the alcoholic part of the of the question.
• 53:57
  Well, I mean, yeah, sort of we're in a very interesting spot, right? One winemaking originated in in Georgia, um and then spread uh from Georgia to Europe. Um and um we have a very good climate for that.
• 54:12
  Um wine has been made for you know thousands of years.
• 54:23
  May I say something? Yeah, um, and you know how diff different countries have different types of diplomacy, and for China, for example, it's tea diplomacy for us, it's wine diplomacy. So it's very interesting.
• 54:28
  Yeah. And then um there's this brandy, it's called um rakia, where every every Balkan country claims to have invented it and to have the best, right? Uh and the distinctive version in Bulgaria is that it's made from grapes, so you ferment them and you distill them into this. Uh and of course, you know, one of the highest forms of uh uh appreciation you can show to another person is if you give them the homemade stuff as a gift, you know, in a in a plastic water bottle that's you know used to have coke inside. Yeah, and you put it in the fridge.
• 55:03
  And then it was used uh for water and then eventually yeah it was used for requirement.
• 55:08
  But that that you know that it's such a concoction that you know if you're ill, your uh parents will do uh like a massage on you and and they'll rub it into your skin and it you get better instantly. You know, if you have a sore throat, you'll do a compress around your neck and you you'll get better. Or also there's the if you have a cut on your hand you they will rinse that to disinfect it and then you know put a band-aid on. So it has many uses, yeah.
• 55:39
  Yeah, the uh you can also make it into like a syrup syrup for when you have like call when you're coughing very bad with um spice some spices and um and honey.
• 55:49
  Yeah.
• 55:49
  Um, I don't remember exactly the the recipe, but uh people would give that to their children, but it actually works. Um yeah, so I I think you know rakia is so important.
• 56:04
  When me and my cousin were born, so I'm born 2003, my cousin is born 2004, and my brother's born 2008. And my grandpa, he every time a grandchild was born, he has three, um he will make like the rakia.
• 56:22
  And so for my graduation, we had hundred maybe like a hundred bottles of uh of rakia, and then he had for my cousin, and then for my brother, and he still has left for our um for our weddings. So that's how important it is. And obviously, he did he he made those 18.
• 56:42
  So like for example, for my brother, because he just graduated this year, uh, he made his 18 years ago when he was born. So that's how like important it is, and it shows I think how much also you love a person. Um, to you know, make a hundred to make enough rakia for like 100 bottles, it's it's not easy, definitely. But for the coffee and tea, yeah.
• 57:06
  Um I I feel like we we need more on the tea side. I also think so.
• 57:11
  I also think so. I think coffee, I think now with like the mainstream like uh coffee culture, now that it's getting thing, people are just now going to Starbucks and um different little coffee shops. But I think in general, um inside your house, I think mostly tea.
• 57:27
  Yeah, and sometimes I mean coffee for those that work.
• 57:30
  Yeah, but even uh for coffee, I feel like we are more on the purist side.
• 57:35
  Uh you know, you use a mocha pot at home, everyone has that.
• 57:39
  Yeah. Uh or those uh copper copper vessels like they do in Turkey where you you heat the coffee in the water directly and then you pour it in in a glass, or you know, they'll get an espresso shot at uh even at Starbucks or something, not the large orders that uh yeah, it's not like Ethiopian coffee, like that type of like very strong, and uh you know, you're more on the Italian side.
• 58:05
  Yeah.
• 58:05
  Are a lot of your drinks and food more savory than sweet? What do you say?
• 58:10
  I think I can think of the same amount of savory um and like sweet like food. But uh like different types of like kicks and uh different cakes and uh cakes and kicks sounds the same, but it's not actually.
• 58:31
  Um yeah.
• 58:36
  I don't know, but I feel like we eat more savory. Yeah. We tend to eat more savory.
• 58:41
  Okay. That's nice. So I'm really fascinated by different architecture around the world, and I'm wondering what um architecture, old architecture remains in Bulgaria, and are old styles still incorporated in new buildings today.
• 58:58
  So shall we go chronologically from the start, or shall we go from the you know, latest architectural style uh and and go to the get to the start?
• 59:08
  I think chronologically would make more sense because we've talked like historically.
• 59:13
  We've mentioned a lot of like history, so that makes more sense.
• 59:17
  Well, I mean in terms of uh history, we have a lot of stuff from Roman times even remaining.
• 59:24
  Uh in our city, Sofia, the uh specific uh uh way they constructed buildings was using this red brick.
• 59:30
  That's quite distinctive. And they have ruins even to this day.
• 59:34
  When you go to the city center where all the you know the Prime Minister's office, the president's office, the National Assembly underneath all that, uh you can see columns and aqueducts and the remains of buildings.
• 59:49
  There's this uh round church nearby that's also very distinctive.
• 59:54
  It's uh uh this specific shape and the specific material for it uh are only associated with that.
• 1:00:02
  Then in in Puovdif, which is the second largest city, there is a you know fully open uh Roman amphitheater, uh a Roman stadium that you can partially enter. They're still digging it out.
• 1:00:15
  Um in HM, they're actually when you walk in HM, they're just ruins there. But also in Sofia uh what he mentioned the Roman ruins, you can just walk. Like it's it's free and it's actually on your way to the metro.
• 1:00:31
  Like you're kind of in the metro station. Um, and it's the ruins are there.
• 1:00:36
  Like you can just walk around, you can touch, you can do anything.
• 1:00:39
  I have a question. Yeah. Um, in certain as or certain areas of Sophia, can um like commercial stores not uh buy out different buildings?
• 1:00:51
  Do they like to preserve like local cafes, local bookstores, rather than bringing in um like Starbucks or HM, for example?
• 1:01:00
  I I know that. So um if if it's a historic building, you have to preserve it.
• 1:01:06
  Right? You can change the you can arrange the interior as you like it, but the walls the outside. Yeah, the wall, but even inside the walls have to have to remain the original material. You can put something, you know, like a few centimeters from them, but you cannot change the original walls, and you have to preserve the the outside facade for sure.
• 1:01:26
  Um and that I think hails back to our revival period, which is the one where you know a truly unique architectural style emerged. So people were building um these houses where um because they were strapped for space, right? The ground floor um is uh fairly small, and then the second floor is actually uh larger than the ground floor, and there are these beams, wooden beams that curve out to support the second floor, and that expansion, and that has remained in many places. There are sort of entire cities nowadays where you go just for that view, and they used a lot of color, so uh it's uh a lot of blue and blue and and red and green, right?
• 1:02:14
  Yep, and green.
• 1:02:15
  Yeah, uh and they painted uh around the the shutters of the windows.
• 1:02:21
  Yeah. Um that was uh very unique and um they kept up with it until the 20th century, roughly when they uh transitioned into you know sort of uh neo baroque style, yeah, as was common in Europe at the time. Um that's when a lot of um tobacco warehouses were built and nowadays they're designated as as you know sites with uh cultural heritage. Um and they're really really beautiful, it's like something that you would see in in Paris or in Vienna, yeah.
• 1:02:53
  Yeah, um I think we also have well not in the cities, but there are a lot of ruins from the first Bulgarian Empire and the Second Bulgarian Empire, and uh um I mean not only ruins but also Velikutornovo.
• 1:03:11
  Um it's uh kind of um how do you say it like it's not it's not like a castle, it's like a fortress. Uh it's a fortress and you can still go.
• 1:03:21
  I think that's the main attraction um in that city. Um there are not many or I don't think there are any remaining well pieces of um well architecture I guess from when Bulgaria was created or when the name was given, like the seventh century, because the Proto-Bulgars were living in Nurtz, and then the the Slavs were living in uh different types of houses.
• 1:03:50
  So we don't have anything from that from the first maybe I think like hundred, 150, 200 years of when Bulgaria was created until we started being in the fortresses, and um I think castle is kind of like an overstatement, but I guess castles and things like that.
• 1:04:06
  But then we moved to the socialist area when they started building these very ugly, brutalist buildings and um just very grey, very soulless. I personally don't like it.
• 1:04:21
  Um there are a lot of people that find but they're they have their own charm, which I guess can be true to an extent, but I think it's just when you compare to what was before and what happened after, it's just um I don't know.
• 1:04:43
  I I have a very hard time trying to justify why would someone choose that type of architecture over something. I mean, again, more in the Baroque or even revival of style housing.
• 1:04:57
  Yeah.
• 1:04:58
  And now it's more modern, like very modern. I think nowadays we don't really tend to build very um big or high apartment buildings.
• 1:05:09
  It's uh mostly I think it's mostly for residential buildings.
• 1:05:13
  It's like five, six floors, pretty small, really modern. Um nothing like the brutalist era.
• 1:05:21
  Yeah. Yeah, I I I'd agree with that. And obviously, you know, nowadays uh skyscrapers are emerging everywhere because they're mostly for work and for business purposes. Um but but like people are always trying to you know sell more or rather buy up as as much developing space as they can and then sell it to different companies in those business, whatever building, yeah. But that's I think normal for everyone across the world at at this moment, yeah.
• 1:05:56
  Yeah, for sure. I also think interior design is changing a lot inside buildings.
• 1:06:01
  Like a lot of buildings are a lot less colorful and don't have as much charm, which makes me sad. Um you mentioned castles, and that reminded me of our conversation freshman year.
• 1:06:13
  Yeah.
• 1:06:14
  That led us, that led me to realize that Ivana actually has a Scottish accent.
• 1:06:22
  Oh my gosh. It's so funny. Yes.
• 1:06:26
  Um, I it's very I don't even know if Philip knows, but we were thinking about buying a castle, like the two of us buying a castle and then raising our kids there.
• 1:06:36
  Yeah. And that was like happening with Starbucks. We were supposed to actually go and study, and we were definitely not studying.
• 1:06:41
  We were also thinking it'd be a cute place for a wedding venue that's like to rent it out.
• 1:06:46
  It'd be so beautiful. Yeah, yeah. So there's like cheap castles that you can buy in Scotland.
• 1:06:52
  I definitely I feel like I'm I'm very I'm a very maximalist person, especially in interior design, and I really like a lot of vintage and I like a lot of things.
• 1:07:01
  Um, and I like a lot of color, and maybe that's why just from a personal standpoint, I cannot stand anything grey, anything very just colorless. My dad on the other side, he he's really into Scandinavian like inter design, like Swedish, like IKEA type of thing. Like more minimalistic.
• 1:07:22
  Yes. Oh, yes. Um, and there's a very big clash between between us.
• 1:07:28
  But I think nowadays, from what I see from a lot of listings online, a lot of people tend to lean towards that kind of uh Scandinavian like lifestyle, as IKEA calls it, I think.
• 1:07:43
  Does your family have any antiques that were passed down? Because I think nowadays families are buying such cheap furniture that they will not be able to pass down for generations because it's so cheap. So I'm wondering if like you have any clocks or tables that have been passed down, watches, anything like that?
• 1:08:03
  Yeah, so I mean for me uh furniture has for the most part not survived passing down.
• 1:08:10
  But um there's uh uh uh a fountain pen that I'm very fond of.
• 1:08:15
  A what's her fountain pen. Oh. And uh I really I really enjoyed them, but that one it's been you know.
• 1:08:24
  Is that your favorite one? Because I know you have like a collection.
• 1:08:28
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that one, you know, it it's been in the family, I don't know, for many decades. My great-grandfather uh first got it as a gift when he was graduating high school, and it's been passed down ever since. Um there are a couple of watches that are beautiful, right? One is a pocket watch, the other is a wristwatch. Both of them, you know, fully mechanical, also really uh exquisite sort of pieces in terms of uh uh the engineering behind them, because even uh every moment that you can get with them, sort of if you just wind it and put it next to your ear, you know, it works. It doesn't it doesn't uh lag behind or anything like that.
• 1:09:09
  And uh there's this like really cool determin that's uh you know that's in uh again many decades of use. Uh that's really nice as well. Yeah.
• 1:09:22
  Oh me. Um I don't think so. Uh there was uh a camera uh that got stolen here, um, and I filed a police report because it's very important.
• 1:09:32
  It's uh a film camera, pretty old. Um, and I really love it.
• 1:09:36
  I have taken a lot of photos, and there was even film with photos with my friends inside.
• 1:09:40
  Um, I think this is the one thing that I can think of. Um, and maybe that's why I really love it so much, and it's very important to me. Um anything else? I think a lot of I don't think furniture, but I actually have a lot of not a lot, I have some letters that my grandpa wrote that he never really um sent to anybody. And my grandpa um well, my grandparents on my mom's side, they're um alive and well, thank God. Um my dad uh recently lost his mom. My grandma passed away this year, and my grandpa passed away two years ago. Um and you know, when my grandpa and my dad's side, I was very, very, very close.
• 1:10:26
  Um just I think we we're also very similar. And so, you know, I can only think about things past from him. So the camera and the letters, and the letters are essentially not something that you would think it's something um very important.
• 1:10:43
  Um for me it is, but I guess you wouldn't count it as antique. But I think piece of history and piece of his heart and his thoughts. So for me it's like I think worth m more than anything, yeah, watches, jewelry, anything.
• 1:11:05
  So yeah.
• 1:11:05
  Thank you for sharing that. Um, so would you guys want to move on to like fun facts about yourself?
• 1:11:14
  Or favorite quotes, or is there anything else you want to share about um Bulgaria?
• 1:11:18
  Usually I end on like a light note, just talking about quotes, inspiration that you have received from family members, or just something that you'd want to share with the audience or listeners.
• 1:11:32
  Should we do a fun fact first? Sure. Okay. Well, my fun fact.
• 1:11:38
  I'll make it okay, I'll make it Vulgare related. My favorite kind of I don't know, unique uh it's not like a festival, but something that we do.
• 1:11:48
  Um I actually have two. One is called Kukirri, um, which is actually like a trecian ritual.
• 1:11:57
  Um, and it's essentially the the purpose before was to um drive away all of the evil spirits um after winter and to welcome abundance and prosperity.
• 1:12:11
  And there's a lot of tension because um we're Orthodox Christians and that's a pagan ritual, and then in the uh 400s, um oh actually no, not the 400s, like six six hundred and ninety, I think, um in the uh council of uh Tulo uh in next to Bari, like the the city, you know, with the um whatever it was said that you you cannot really like perform and like take part of that type of like rituals, especially like masked and everything. And that's um orthoxy has kind of like two ways to think about things, um and one is kind of more um like like it's not mandatory, and then you have the mandatory part. So um, you know, this falls into mandatory, like you're not supposed to do that.
• 1:13:08
  Um it's the acrimea, I think it's how it's it's it's it's in Greek.
• 1:13:15
  Um but I think having something as a culture and have and believing in something is like two different things, like taking part of it, because I don't necessarily believe that that actually drives the spirits away. But I and I do not partake in this, but I think it's a very great piece of um you know culture that has been preserved and it's very unique because it's uh essentially people in um I it I think it's like the costumes are made of like animals, right?
• 1:13:48
  Yeah, animal furs.
• 1:13:49
  Of animal fur and they have their mask and then big bells. And uh usually traditionally how it was done is uh they at night they go around the whole like village.
• 1:14:00
  Um now they do it, but you would mostly see them in the big cities and like kind of type of festivals.
• 1:14:08
  Um so I think that's um one of my favorites like things uh to to to kind of see and witness. I think it's very beautiful.
• 1:14:18
  Well for fun facts, you know, personally I think I can do tarot card readings even though I don't, you know, believe in any of that. Yeah. It's it's fun. I like the pictures, right? And I learned uh what their meanings were. I've been told I'm okay at that, not not great, but um Wow. Yeah, like if if someone wants their future known, they can come to me.
• 1:14:44
  Well, from my fun fact okay, I love wolves. I think it's okay, so I love wolves. Um my like the wall behind my bed at home is just like a painting of a wolf. It's a pretty scary painting.
• 1:15:05
  People are kind of people think it's creepy. Um but I have an Instagram also that is for preservation of wolves. It's just a lot of news and advocacy. Uh, I think kind of nobody knows that I have that.
• 1:15:18
  Um and when I was younger, I used to go over the summer with my mom's friend. Um, she was working um at Sophia Zoo and she was taking care of the monkeys, but the monkeys were kind of in a close proximity to the wolves, and I would just go and just like uh you know watch them and it's it's my favorite animal.
• 1:15:43
  I love wolves and everything, my wallpaper is a wolf. Um I I really love wolves and um thankfully um right now in the US in in California uh there was like a a bill that would have well endangered the wolves, uh well, wolves by enabling, you know, the murder and whatnot, but uh Newsom stopped it, so that's that's very good. Yeah, very happy about preservation of wolves.
• 1:16:18
  For favorite quote, weren't you didn't you have something very interesting?
• 1:16:21
  Oh yes, a favorite quote. You can say it in Bulgarian and try to translate it as well if you want, or just however you want to say it, he he'll have a good one.
• 1:16:30
  I don't know, like I I don't think translation would work that that well on the spot because it's from a poem. Uh, but I'm um on the top of my head. Ulysses by Alfred Lord Tennyson comes to mind, right? Um and it's uh towards the middle of the poem, and and it goes like this Death closes all, but something here the end, some work of noble note may yet be done, not unbecoming men that strove with gods.
• 1:16:59
  Why do you why why does that speak to your heart? Oh sorry, you're the speaker, but why yeah.
• 1:17:05
  Well, you know, I think uh death is universal.
• 1:17:10
  Uh coming uh from uh a place uh that's uh existed for you know many many years that's uh been through catastrophes and come back. I think there's uh I mean I don't want to call it existential, but there is something you know about like a that group consciousness that tends to to be older than uh the comparison that the comparative level in your peers.
• 1:17:38
  So in that sense, right, I think uh you know you feel like you can still be useful and contribute in your life even though uh even though it's gone through sort of many trials and and tribulations, yeah.
• 1:17:53
  I was going to go with a Bible quote, but then I decided to change it up a little bit.
• 1:17:58
  Um I think it's not I don't even know who said that. Uh I'm not sure where I saw it or when I saw it, but what you're not chasing, you're choosing, I think it's um very powerful because we don't tend to really think like that.
• 1:18:15
  It's just oh I'm just it's just happening. It's just you know, and I think I'm somebody that is very like self-critical, and I never thought about what I'm not changing, I'm choosing. Because essentially I would think, oh, I'm not choosing to to do this, it's just happening. But then if I can at least like try or do something to to change it, then it's I don't know if it makes sense, but I think it's uh I think it's like a a very powerful quote, and I try to really live by it ever since I saw it and um just be a better version of myself um and just do good deeds.
• 1:18:56
  I really like that. Yeah, it's also important to be responsible for your emotions and how you feel and how you treat others, although you can't control everything that happens to you.
• 1:19:07
  You can um control how you react to it. Yeah, and I think that um aligns with the quote that you shared. So I like that a lot. Yeah. What is your favorite quote?
• 1:19:18
  That's a good question. I'm asking you all of you guys. Um I actually have a lot, but I I'm trying to think of one off the top of my head that I could share.
• 1:19:28
  Um this is a very short quote, but I really liked this when I first came to school.
• 1:19:33
  I actually made a tote bag and it said embrace it all on it.
• 1:19:37
  It's a really short quote, but I really like that. I like trying to be present in the moment instead of worrying about the past or the future. Because if you're always worried about everything, then you're not gonna actually live life in the present moment, which is the only time in your life that you can actually you're capable of changing your environment and your um outcome. So I like to embrace every moment as is.
• 1:19:59
  If I'm sad, then I'll be sad for a little bit and then let that emotion pass by and then move on to the next thing that'll bring me um purpose and joy. So yeah, that's a quote that I like.
• 1:20:13
  Is that kind of like your life motto and how you like to just live your life now?
• 1:20:18
  Yeah. So you're more you would you say that you were just every day for that day?
• 1:20:24
  Like you're just a day-to-day person.
• 1:20:26
  Yeah, I would say I'm a big dreamer. Like I like thinking about the future, and I also like thinking about how I can do better for my future by reflecting on my past, but I don't like to think too deeply about the past or the future because I get really anxious if I do that.
• 1:20:42
  I can learn a lot. You need to teach me your ways.
• 1:20:45
  I think that's also something that I really need to work on.
• 1:20:48
  Um I mean it took me a long time to work like I'm still working on it, obviously, but two secrets. I want to share another one now.
• 1:20:57
  Just gonna think I can't think of one.
• 1:21:00
  What do you think about when you wake up?
• 1:21:03
  Me? Yeah, just like making the most of my day. I like to be grateful for the day.
• 1:21:10
  Because I always think like we're not promised the next year, the next week. I need to be better at really thinking about what I want to accomplish in my day.
• 1:21:20
  Because I always have like main things that I want to get done, but I want to have more intention with each day. It's something I want to work on.
• 1:21:28
  So you start your day by basically being grateful. You know what, I also am grateful when I wake up, but I think I tend to be not poor grateful.
• 1:21:40
  Grateful, but I tend to express my gratefulness at night. I feel like that's interesting.
• 1:21:45
  I think it's good to do both.
• 1:21:46
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. But I think I write it down and just like Yeah.
• 1:21:51
  I think writing down things, also praying helps, just like reflecting and being grateful and also reflecting on what you can do better. That helps as well. Yeah.
• 1:22:00
  I think it makes sense because you're more of a morning person and more of a night person.
• 1:22:04
  That's true.
• 1:22:04
  I get so tired past 10 p.m. I'm like, I can't stay up any later.
• 1:22:09
  Oh yeah.
• 1:22:10
  Sorry, I kind of was asking about it.
• 1:22:12
  No, no, thanks for asking.
• 1:22:15
  Do you guys want to share anything else? I feel like I learned so much more about Bulgaria and I'm really thankful for this conversation. Also, I wanted to ask something about the mushrooms.
• 1:22:24
  How are you taught to harvest them? Ivana said something about the blue line.
• 1:22:28
  Means that they're poisonous. Yeah. So what like how do you harvest school?
• 1:22:33
  They would teach us. Oh wow. We even had it in the textbook.
• 1:22:38
  That's true, but uh I feel like for that it's just experience.
• 1:22:45
  My uncle, he he's you know very interested in in foraging, foraging mushrooms in particular.
• 1:22:50
  And um he uh as a child learned to recognize the edible from the inedible.
• 1:22:58
  Yeah, I mean that that's about it. Sort of he showed me what to look for and this particular mushroom and we don't gather anything else, right? And that's it, yeah.
• 1:23:09
  Yeah, I I think for me it was just like seeing it in the textbook.
• 1:23:15
  Okay, the mushroom that I really like, my favorite Pachikrak, I don't even know how it was the name in in in English, but I don't think it has an evil twin.
• 1:23:24
  No. I don't think so, right? So like I wouldn't I wouldn't I I wouldn't even be looking at the other mushrooms. But i in the textbooks I could be like, oh well in case I don't even know why it was in the textbook, why why would we need it as like I don't know fourth graders, but it was in the textbook, so it's really interesting.
• 1:23:42
  That is interesting, it's good that they taught you that as well.
• 1:23:46
  The 2004 tsunami that hit Thailand, um three weeks before that I was reading about this, a little girl was taught about warning signs, like tsunami warning signs, and the water acts very different before a tsunami, and she caught onto the warning signs and saved hundreds of people, all because of like one lecture. It's good that they actually listened to her because a lot of people would not, yeah.
• 1:24:10
  You know, when I read because Bulgaria, uh Sophia it's uh situated next to a mountain and um uh Vitusham. And when I was younger and I read, oh, long time ago it was a volcano, and then I watched one movie about a volcano, um, and I don't remember the name, but I remember that the main character, like the woman, she had recently divorced like that guy, and she had, I think, two kids, and she had to, or grandma on the dad's side wanted to see them, and she lives in the mountains and whatnot.
• 1:24:46
  And so they went to she she was driving the kids, and then the volcano erupted, and she wanted to save and blah blah blah. And so I got so scared that Vitusha was going to wrap.
• 1:24:58
  And I kept asking my dad, like, are we close? Like, who is closer, me or my cousin? My po who who who lives closer to to Vitusha?
• 1:25:05
  Um, I don't know, just my child head, you know, my my brain.
• 1:25:08
  Yeah, and I had um um like a bag full of uh important things, and now that I think about it, they're not important. I had napkins, I had uh uh um how would you call um kitshizushi?
• 1:25:23
  I forgot. Like ear the q-tips. Um I had uh one flashlight.
• 1:25:29
  Did you have a lighter? I had I I don't think so, because I I don't think my parents would have allowed me to like touch it.
• 1:25:35
  Yeah.
• 1:25:36
  Um just uh a notebook, stuff like that, and then when there were a well not a lot, but there was one serious like earthquake, and I thought, oh, that's going to awake the you know the volcano, and we're going to you know need to flee.
• 1:25:51
  And so I had to my I had my bag next to my bed for such a long time, you know. I just remember, and I had a list, and I don't know why I was thinking that napkins are so important, but apparently they were to me. Um, because you know the mountain it has uh like uh this specific part of the mountain has a lot of big stones, like I don't even how would you bullize, I guess. That it's from when it was when it erupted, like the last time it erupted, whatever many years. So people just go and climb, and it's it's very pretty, but I was terrified. That's so fun.
• 1:26:29
  I lived by Yellowstone National Park and I had the same fears, like, oh, if it erupts, I guess I'll die in 20 seconds. Yeah, because they would always tell me if it erupts and the whole world dies, like people in Asia will die from the ashes. And we literally lived right outside of the East Gates.
• 1:26:45
  That's crazy. Um, so I was like, okay, like I guess I'll die in 30 seconds, and then like someone from California will die in an hour, and I would always like calculate in my head like what would happen if it exploded or erupted, sorry.
• 1:26:56
  Yeah, no, you know, and I think I don't know if it was like 13, 14, and I'm very I was very into conspiracy theories, and there was this oh, it's in Bulgaria where Baba Vanga is, there uh like um um well people say that that has like that place has a very specific like energy, and then um there were some people saying how um the birds like left the area and how this is connected to Yellowstone, how Yellowstone was going to erupt. And my aunt she lives and my cousins they live in the US, and so I was terrified. And I was telling my dad, like, tell her to just come back because Yellowstone is going to erupt, and then I was just terrified. But I think you know, the good thing about um I think movies um is that everything bad always happens to the US, you know, all alien invasions happen in the US, dinosaurs um happen in the US, uh volcanoes erupting. So, yeah, to an extent, uh my only that's why I was never really worried about alien invention invasions or you know, uh d dinosaurs, because you know, we didn't have anything that is you know that kind of resembled what I saw in Hollywood movies, but the volcano was the one that like that'll get all of us out that's so funny.
• 1:28:22
  Yeah, well thank you, thank you for coming on my podcast today.
• 1:28:26
  It's been so amazing having you on here, Philip and Ivana, and it's been so nice to get to know more about your country and more about your guys' lives and hometown.
• 1:28:34
  Thank you for coming. Thank you so much for having us.
• 1:28:38
  Yeah, thank you for having us. It was a lovely conversation.
• 1:28:40
  I'm sorry for talking a lot.
• 1:28:45
  Thank you.
• 1:28:46
  Bye-bye.