Latest / High Alpha Hooligans Podcast / DCS's Forgotten Module from the Forgotten War. F-86 Sabre

Transcript

DCS's Forgotten Module from the Forgotten War. F-86 Sabre · High Alpha Hooligans Podcast

• FiFi: Just an analog girl living in a digital world. I took the thirty-eighth parallel going anywhere. Right? You like that one? Harper: Ha ha ha. FiFi: I think it's appropriate for this episode. Okay. Ooh, and you know what I forgot? SCUD: Bravo, bravo. FiFi: Bing the light. Here we go. SCUD: Bing! There we go. The tech, the tech on this concert is awful. FiFi: It's wonderful. SCUD: welcome to High of Hooligans, everybody. I'm Scud. And there's Fifi singing his heart out for you. And and Jimmy can't be here, but we have Harper here taking his place. Welcome, Harper. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: all right. Before we get into anything, right off the bat, I'm gonna call it out so that Fifi has to do it. But we tried to start this episode. Like 30 seconds ago, and he completely blaked on what he was gonna do. And then he quickly ended the recording. And I think he should put it in either right here as a blooper reel or at the end of the video. And I'm I'm doing it FiFi: man. SCUD: l right here on the recording. So he has to put it in there now. Cause it's FiFi: yeah, that was really bad. SCUD: cause it's great. yeah, welcome back to High F Hooligans. let's thank our sponsors and partners. To start off, we have Fox Remanaged Solutions. If you need a server for your For DCS or for IEL or the other games like that, hit up Fox Remeta Solutions. You get discount for the life of your server if you use Hooligan25. we are we wanna shout out our partners Pimax and our partners Moza, both of which, if you want to get a PyMax headset or a MOSA heads or a MOSA force feedback hardware, you can go to their website, you could use our affiliate links. to get that hardware and then it helps us as content creators so you can help us while getting the gear you want. Those links are on our Patreon. So make sure you sign up for well you don't have to sign up for the Patreon, but you want to because we do the post show show. But go to our Patreon to get those links. In addition FiFi: Which is gonna be spicy. Anyway, sorry. SCUD: to that, if you are looking at Thrustmaster gear, use the code Hi Alpha Hooligans to get a discount. Well not a discount, it helps support us. And if you're looking for a head eye tracking solution and you're interested in the Toby tracker five You can use high of a hooligans when you check out with the Toby Tracker for a five percent discount on that. also, thanks to our partner, Segal Dynamics and Heapler and Gornelli Designs and other wait there's a lot. I'm trying to remember them all. What am I missing? FiFi: Yeah. I think that I don't know. I I don't know. I gotta look SCUD: Everything. FiFi: at I gotta look at the thing. All everybody, like you guys are all all all awesome. SCUD: In any case, the hardware you're already gonna purchase can help us and in some cases help you with the discount. So head up to Patreon, check out the stuff that we are affiliated with. and yeah, let's let's let's jump in. This is gonna be the F-86 Saber episode. If you couldn't tell, kind of by Fifi singing his his musical talent, telling the story. but first, Harper. Harper Is part of our team. He's been on the I think the post show for the post wags op wag show, but now he's he's actually on just just him and us to talk about the F86. When I found Harper on TikTok live streaming, and I was This dude's hilarious and he's awesome. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: The best way I describe him is toxic positivity. and and and I was like, hey. Do you do you know about the hooligans? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, Do you want to come be a part of our team? And he's like, yeah. And then he makes some of the best videos that we have posted on our YouTube, particularly his how to start Russian, right now Russian airplanes, but it's gonna be all of them, how to start tutorials, which are not the normal, these aren't your grandpa's tutorials. Harper: Yeah. FiFi: Well, don't don't don't say how to start Russian airplanes. We're just going through the series of airplanes. Yeah. Because if you SCUD: Yeah, I I said it started with Russian airplanes. It's gonna be all of them. FiFi: say safe you might get accused by somebody of supporting of supporting the Russian war. But anyways, we'll get in that in the post show. SCUD: Harper, Harper: Hello. SCUD: tell us. Tell tell don't tell us. Tell the the listeners who you are. Harper: I am Harper. I'm from Australia, the land down under. And I just I just try and make people smile on DCS. by making my videos. And my tutorials may not be the most in depth, but they get the job done. But I don't think you're really there to learn how to start it. You're just there to learn how to smile and have fun. Yeah. Make sure you yeah. Yeah. Make sure your parents aren't around. SCUD: Very child appropriate videos on your how to start airplane video. FiFi: Yes, he's just family friendly. Great great to Harper: Or you're watching those videos. SCUD: How long have you been playing DCS? Harper: I have been playing roughly I'd say probably th three years but more like five years on and off. Like I'd I'd play it for you know, five years ago I'd play it for like five to five months or so on and off and then uninstall it and then go back to flight simulator and then come back. But now that I've got this wonderful community that has taken me in. Big happy family, I've been sort of playing that more than I have flight simulator. and I've just recently gone on a bit of a break, but now I'm back. So we're gonna see another we're gonna see an F sixteen Viper tutorial by let's let's let's set a deadline. Let's call it SCUD: An an F sixteen fighting Falcon? Harper: sorry, sorry. The the SCUD: Ha ha ha. Harper: The Fighting Falcon. Yeah, so we're gonna see that FiFi: I love it. SCUD: Yeah. Harper: one let's call it Saturday. Next Saturday. FiFi: That'll be fun. Harper: Yes. SCUD: Yeah. is that the is that the the Harper post of video day? Fifi, is that good? Saturdays? All right. Saturday's your post of video day. FiFi: Sure. Yeah, that's your post a video Harper: Cerrés. Sweat. Sweet. FiFi: day. SCUD: All right, so Saturdays, you can you can expect whenever Harper has a video, it'll drop on Saturdays. Harper is a real pilot. He's not just a DCS pilot. FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: Yeah, he gets that grin on his face. Come on, every FiFi: Yeah, look at that. Yeah, dude. Harper: He's a he's a he's a real pilot. No, I've just I'm trying to get my career going. FiFi: Yeah. That's SCUD: He's he's he in when he's not dropping pretend bombs, he drops he drops meat bombs, is that what you call them? Harper: Meep meat bombs, meat bombs. So unwilling victims, you slam the roller door FiFi: Ha ha Harper: up at the back of the caravan and you say, You better get out of my plane right now or I'm gonna tip you out. FiFi: Yeah. Harper: And y you know, FiFi: Yeah. Harper: you could you can throw a caravan around and I mean, you know, it's a it's a bit of a bust, but like you can yank and bank on that thing and it'll do what you want. But but I've just recently SCUD: No. FiFi: forget, that's awesome. Harper: recently got my turbine rating, got checked out on the caravan and did ten hours time on class with some guys up in cairns. So hopefully now I'm winning Waiting to see what happens with that career wise. So fingers crossed. Not Yeah, SCUD: Start getting paid to fly planes. Harper: paid to paid to drop out. SCUD: All right. And I got one question one more question for you. And then we'll see if Fifi has any. Being a a real pilot and a DCS player, what's your if you had to get rid of every module in DCS except one, what is the what is the one module you're gonna hold on to? Harper: I'm biased. SCUD: And and I and this is tough for him because Harper flies everything. Harper: Yeah. I don't know. I'm biased towards I really, really, really enjoy the MiG twenty nine. Because a and FiFi: That's true. Harper: yeah, and even like it's just it's such a underdog module. Like you could take it into a modern even into contention and then you're like you're like everyone else has got a better radar than me. But you can if you get that sneak attack with a with a twenty seven ET And you're you get that and you see it explode and you're like, my god, did I just do that? Did that just happen? I'm gonna run back to base now. No, I I honestly reckon the MiG twenty nine. Yeah. SCUD: This this sounds eerily similar to all of your op wags playing. FiFi: Yeah. Harper: No, I think the MiG twenty nine, honestly. I reckon the MiG twenty nine. FiFi: It's a cool jet. It that's it's a it's a it doesn't the MiG twenty nine does not get enough credit, I think. It's a it's a really cool jet. It does everything. It's it's just it's just a cool jet. So yeah. Harper: It is. It's cool. And and the thing is like a lot of people don't tend to use it in the air to ground aspect as much either. Like I see a lot of people flying it around. But it can it can drop like, you know, Fab five hundreds and you use C C I P and it it'll get it right where you want it. Rockets, things like that, you know, it's SCUD: I don't think I've ever done air to ground in it. Harper: well we need to. We need to. I'll teach you. SCUD: Yes. FiFi: Sounds sounds cool. Harper: Yeah, it is. SCUD: Fifi, do have any questions for Harper before we go into the next piece that he doesn't know about? FiFi: no, actually I don't. besides, I don't know. I mean, like I don't know, I'm just happy to have you here because it's always fun hanging out with Harper. Like it's just it's just it's just so much it's Harper: Thank you. SCUD: Toxic positivity. FiFi: always it's always just fun and cool to hang out with Harper. So I'm just like, yeah, I'm just here for the vibes, man. SCUD: Yeah. Yeah, we're luck we're Harper: Thank you. I'm I'm good to be. Glad to be. Thank you. SCUD: we're lucky to have you around. normally we we we do this we've done this in the past with guests and we kind of fell off from doing it and we normally do it later in the episode, but we're gonna do it right now because we're talking about him. We're gonna go directly into gun hot squat guns hot questions. These FiFi: yeah. SCUD: are these are quick answer questions that Harper does not have a chance to read ahead of time or know what's coming. FiFi: So so we are SCUD: Woo. FiFi: we are here for the we are here for the fun on it. All right. Are you are you ready? All Harper: Let's go. FiFi: right, here we go. It's seventeen questions. This might go so this is gonna be good. I think we're gonna have a lot of fun with this. on a scale from one to crocodile dundee, how Australian are you? Harper: That's not a knife. This is a knob. Next question. FiFi: Okay. If if Harper came with a warning label, what would it say? Mm-hmm. Harper: Warning explosive. SCUD: Okay. Take that how you guys want. FiFi: Okay. Yeah, take out how you want it. Have you ever had to explain to someone that yes, you really are a pilot despite may w what they may have just witnessed? Harper: Yes. FiFi: this could be a story, but we'll we'll get to we'll we'll get that one out of you later. SCUD: Yeah, we we can we can save that one. FiFi: What is the biggest lie DCS teaching people about being a real pilot? What is the biggest lie that DCS is teaching people about a real pilot? Harper: That you that you get that you get unlimited lives. FiFi: You know what? Honestly, that's super fair. That's valid. That's super valid. SCUD: Valid. FiFi: Which DCS aircraft attracts the biggest bunch of absolute spoons? Harper: Mm the Hornet. FiFi: Wow. SCUD: boo. FiFi: that's rude. So rude. What's most likely what's the most likely death to a rookie saber pilot? The MiG fifteen, the ground, or their ego? Harper: Probably probably the MiG fifteen, honestly. After after what we saw before. FiFi: Yeah. That's true. That's true. speaking of the MiG fifteen and the F eighty six, since that's what this episode's about, what what's your pick? F eighty six and the MiG fifteen? SCUD: I knew that. Harper likes the Russian birds. Harper: Ha FiFi: Yeah, he does Harper: ha ha. FiFi: he does though. Like, yeah, we'll we'll we'll get into that later too. okay, question eight drop bears, really or really scary? Harper: Really scary. SCUD: Do you hear the intensity in the way he answered that? FiFi: Yeah. Harper: Do not joke about the drop bears, mate. They will jump out and they will get you. FiFi: I are they are they really like SCUD: It's creepy as hell. FiFi: are they always like are they actually like super prolific Harper: They're real. FiFi: in the wild or they just like or do you just kinda everywhere? Harper: They're everywhere, mate. Day to day I wake up. Day to day mate, I wake up, right? I wake up. I go find a beer. Drink Zed beer. I walk outside in the tree. There's a family of these drop bears, right? And I have to use my my spiritual what have you on those drop bears. Right. And then they come crawling down. They come crawling down. They walk out. Day to day life, mate, it's survival here. FiFi: Speaking of beer. SCUD: That's a short right there. That is a short right there. FiFi: We could speak of beer, Australian beer or American beer. Harper: I've only ever had one American beer and that was a that was a Budweiser. FiFi: Was it Bud Light or the big or the heavy Bud, the red Bud? okay. At least it was the lager, yeah. Harper: No, Budweiser the red the red one. Yeah. No, Aussie B. Aussie B. All day, every SCUD: Exactly. Harper: day. FiFi: I've never had Aussie beer. I have to Harper: There's plenty here. FiFi: I'll have to have to get some. SCUD: There's plenty here. Harper: Yeah. FiFi: let's see. I'm gonna skip that one. What's the most Australian way to tell somebody that they're flying is horrible? Harper: There's a few good ones. you could j you could just tell that they are we do we have sensors on d are we censoring anything on here? No. FiFi: No, no. SCUD: You can say what you want to say. Harper: Alright. I don't know, I I I just I I think you could just say you you fly like shit mate, like get a grip. You know? Yeah A fuckin' brick could fly better than you, mate. God. SCUD: There he is. There's Harvard. FiFi: There's Harper. All right. two more questions. We'll do two more questions. three more questions. If Hyafa Hooligans became a cult, what would what would our completely irrational founding belief be? Harper: That's that SCUD enjoys the seven three seven. SCUD: Fuck off. FiFi: It's a couple. coming back. It's so great. It's so great. Harper: That one's for you, Sharker. FiFi: You don't you you know you know you know my god, that's so good. I love that. I'm so glad that it keeps coming back. okay, two more. Flight suit or budgy smugglers. Harper: Badzi smuggless. FiFi: I need to get myself a real pair. And then Harper: You do. I'll send you some. FiFi: nice. And then last question, Danny Rick or Oscar Payastri. Harper: Well, I mean Danny Danny FiFi: Mm. Harper: is is the people's the people's man. That is the people's man. So probably Danny. I'd say Danny. Grew up watching Danny. FiFi: Good good choice. Good choice. That's it for Guts Hot. SCUD: Cowboy Rick, huh? Harper: Mm. Mm. SCUD: I have one other thing to point out before we we we jump into the the actual F-86 Saberjet. and that is that by complete and and total accident, because both of us are lazy and it was the first thing laying on top of the laundry pile, me and Fifi are now matching with Flight Sim Expo shirts. Harper, where the hell's yours? FiFi: There it is. but shout out to Flight Sim Expo. We'll we'll be in Vegas. We'll be in Vegas next year, so SCUD: We will. All right. FiFi: That that's gonna be that's that's gonna be interesting. SCUD: The F eighty six. The the the the yet another slept on module question mark? FiFi: We could have forgotten module, for sure. Harper: Mm. Yeah. SCUD: From the Forgotten War. all right, so FiFi: There's there's the episode title. Thank you. SCUD: I love how this is it just happens. It manifests. FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: So I I I like the F-86. A little bit of of like not in depth, but a little bit of background, right? F-86 is is not the first US fighter jet, but the of the early fighter jets, a very successful one. It first flew in October of 1947. So this is like Just after World War II. Very, very, very early jet tech. it was it's most well known for its role in the Korean War fighting against MiG-15s. look up MiG Alley, and there's just tons of of information about the F-86 MiG fights over over the Korean Peninsula. It did serve well outside of the Korean War, especially in in other countries that flew it much, much later than the United States did. But this is for me in DCS, I really enjoy like the the different generations of flying, different decades of flying. and this is the transition from like World War II piston air power into very early jet air power. And the next logical step past the F eighty six would be the F 100, where you're you're now getting supersonic flight and you're getting slightly more advanced systems. afterburners and and and or like the miG-21 where you're going from you know same thing the MiG-21 and compared to the MiG-15 like the F-100 compared to the F-86. And what I really enjoy about the airplane, and we'll we'll get into it, is that you can see the transition very prominently in this in this module. It is still a very poorly laid out cockpit with old gauges. It is swept wing, but it's not like super maneuverable like you'd expect from a jet fighter. It's air to air and air-to-ground systems are slightly more advanced, but not like really advanced. So it's just really cool to see these this generational jump and go, okay, cool. This is the next iteration. And then you can take that to the next plane and the next plane and you can kind of see the progress. and when they first came out, they eventually put missiles on it, AM9Bs. But when it first came out, it didn't have missiles. It is it is a ground attack, but when it comes to air to air combat, it is a purely a gunfighter, as was the MiG fifteen. So you're you're now, like I said, transitioning from World War Two gunfighting into jets, but it's still just gunfighting. FiFi: And we need to talk about the gun the gun thing because I think when you compare it against the MiG-15, the the gun differential between the two is huge because the Americans are still coming off of having all that fifty cal and it had six fifty cals on it because you know what? Six fifty cals worked. And you think about it, and a lot of these guys who are flying the F-86 as it's coming out are all former P fifty one pilots moving over into the F-86. And so now you have just you know, essentially what the Air Force is probably thinking was like a jet powered F you know, P fifty one. And so it's got six fifty cals and, you know, they're flying that. Meanwhile, the MiG-15's got twenty and thirty-seven millimeter cannons on it. So which yeah, which played a huge SCUD: Yeah, we we can talk about that when we get into the weapons. You're absolutely right. And FiFi: role in that. SCUD: heritage, right? So North American Aviation built the F-86. They also built the T6 and the B-25 and the P51 Mustang, and they built the F-100, and they built planes after that. So it's its lineage is right, it sits right there in the manufacturer's lineage, in its heritage between the Mustang and the Super Saber. So so it is. It is like a jet-powered faster version of the Mustang. They just built on what they knew and then on sweptwing design and this new jet engine technology and made a essentially a a jet-powered faster Mustang. Very similar in a lot of its systems, outside of the fact that it's got a jet engine and hydraulics on the flight controls. Harper, what are your initial thoughts since you fly everything and you like the old birds? Harper: About the F eighty six. I think you know, in especially coming from just knowing how the DCS F eighty six works. I think it's great that like in terms of armament, like you've got si what is it? How many fifty kills is it? SCUD: Six. Harper: Six. Yeah, six. But you've got all that ammunition, to sort of play with. And yeah, it's still it's still lethal. Like a fifty kel will rip shreds off anything. and compared to the MiG, I mean you've really got to pick your shots with that 'cause you you don't get much ammo. So and I mean it i it is, it's a good fighter, like f it for the error, like the F eighty six and it's it's famous for a reason. Like it was successful. I think it's great. SCUD: Yeah. Many aces in the F eighty six, Harper: Yeah. SCUD: in the Korean War. All right, so let's talk about let's talk about in DCS. let's just go through some of the major topics here. Three D three D modeling. FiFi: So, okay. I wanna I wanna I wanna open up with this one because this was this was a I had this inspiration when we first like one, we've been talking about doing this episode for like a year now. but yeah, SCUD: Yeah, we we wanted to do this for a long time. FiFi: we've been wanting to do this episode for a long time. We just finally did it. but but like I went back and watched the the reveal release trailer for the F86 module from DCS. It's 10 years old. And SCUD: Ha ha ha. FiFi: holy crap. Like, do you see the how far the game has come since then and Harper: Yeah. FiFi: how far the graphics come and even like people say, you know, it's not updated. Go back and watch the original F eighty six release trailer and I'll tell you how much the F eighty six has been updated. Like it has been shown love, a lot of love in over the course of time. But yeah, I do believe it's kind of a forgotten module because DCS is a game of eras, right? And the Warbirds era stuff is very, very defined. The Korean War, not so much. I mean, you have two incredible jets from it, but that's it. Like you don't see Korean War anything. Like if show me a server out there that's got Korean War settings style, you know, style setting stuff. And then, you know, you have eighty six F eighty sixes flying alongside, you know, Corsairs, right? Shout out movie devotion. But and then and other stuff like that, you know, it would be cool to see, you know, F three F Panthers or F nine Fs or whatever in there as well. But But yeah, it's a forgotten module, I think. And so yeah, it's it's a little old, it's a little outdated, and but it it kinda it deserves some some sunlight. So here we are. I'm gonna I'm rambling. So please somebody take the mic for me. SCUD: yeah, I I agree. It shows its age, right? In in the 3D modeling world in DCS, it sh well, it shows its age, but about that also sh like you said, it shows how far DCS has come. There are other modules that I feel are the same way. I think the Mustang is in need of a an a refresh on the exterior. I think the Huey is in dire need of a 3D model refresh. It's a great module, but it looks very dated. the outside of the F eighty six looks still pretty good. But the inside 3D modeling is where you really see it's it's a little bit of an older module. Everything feels FiFi: Gunsight The gunsight needs love so bad. SCUD: I don't think there's much wrong with the gun side. It's just the one, everyone who knows the podcast knows I cannot stand an old airplane with a clean cockpit. They need to look dirty, like the Harper: Yeah. SCUD: Phantom FiFi: Ha ha SCUD: and the Tomcat and the F-100, and even the warbirds look dirty, and the F-86 looks too clean. But in addition to looking too clean, the textures just are a little bit too old. So it everything it feels like I bought the F-86 off of Wish and I got one with a plastic interior instead of like a nice metal or leather wrapped interior, right? It's it's the it's the SE version of the Civic. It's not the fancy one with leather seats. It just Harper: Ha ha ha. SCUD: because the the 3D modeling is just older, it doesn't feel tangible and real. It feels more video game ish. And then there's some perspective things. There's a couple switches on the side panel that don't look like they're the right size. Like all the switches feel right up front, and then I look in VR down at the side panel and they all look like they they they're about a, I don't know, three-quarter scale. Suddenly everything's shrunk over there. I'm like, how did the pilots twist these kn the teeny tiny knobs and switches? Maybe they were really like that. I don't know. But it feels a little dated. Harper: Yeah. I think I think that goes I think it goes for most of the older modules though. Like a lot of you know, most of the exteriors are still pretty good in today's world of DCS. but a lot of the cockpit interiors, they s they r a lot of really feel dated now. I think a lot of them just need a overhaul. But yeah. FiFi: Do you think do you think that's maybe a little bit of recency bias because we've had things come out like the B U and Harper: I mean, yeah, we're so used to like now we're getting these great modules that w you know, mad cockpits. Like they're so detailed and that's what I'm saying is like they're they're so old a lot of these older aircraft that are, you know, five, eight, ten years old. like they could just do with a retexture, you know. SCUD: Yeah, I agree. the inside the cockpit, aside from 3D modeling, is every bit of as chaotic as an immediate post-war jet should be. which means there's no good layout to any of the gauges. They're just smattered all over the instrument panel. And so cross-check sucks. But all that stuff is not bad. That's ex that I love that because that's what the plane was like. there is one thing that they added into this that I As far as being in the cockpit that I cannot stand. And I fly in VR, maybe it's different for flat panel people, but there's a setting that will automatically adjust the seating position, whether your gear's up or down. And so when your gears down for takeoff and landing, you're sitting like really high up in the cockpit. And the moment you put the gear up, the whole thing goes and you're Harper: Ha ha ha. SCUD: like your perspective drops like a foot. So you can see through the HUD, which the airplane didn't do that, right? The pilots adjusted their seat or they leaned down to look through the HUD. And it is so disorienting. And then I I don't know. I I d I don't know if you guys have used that or seen it, but it's so weird to put the gear up and then have your pilot's body go and like drop. FiFi: As a as a as a flat panel guy, it it is helpful. And also it makes me feel like every super cool YouTube pilot personality out there who like to sit like way ba way below the glare shield in all their pilot videos. You know what I'm talking about. Like when you watch any SCUD: I know what you're talking about. FiFi: you watch any any sort of pilot show like on YouTube and they're like they're like, come fly with me, my TBM. And that's like they're like they're like sitting below the glare shield, like you can't even see anything. What are you talking about? It's IFR, it doesn't really matter. SCUD: Like grandma behind the wheel of the car. FiFi: Yeah. it was like that in the trucking world too when I was trucking, like the lower your if your seat was on the wasn't on the floor, you were stupid. But but no it it definitely that that feature helps that feature helps in flat panel, I'll say that. Because like you it when you're using just a head tracker, like when you try to like look up over the dash, you know, you can't as well as you can in VR. So I'll give SCUD: I think I think this seat should just stay up. And then you could lean down to look through the HUD. Because and this is this comes from real world stuff. When I when I taught in the T38, and I was a victim of it when I was a student in the T38, you finally get into a 38 and you have a HUD. You're like, I finally have a HUD. But the 38 didn't have a HUD to begin with. And so the HUD where they put it, the slope of the windscreen, the HUD sits too low. So the only way to see through it is to lower your seat. All the way down, and then you can see through the HUD. It's like right there in front of my face. It's this big, beautiful HUD. And we, myself as a student and as an instructor, I would tell the students, I'm like, don't sit where you can look through the HUD. Sit high, high up. If you have to lean down to look through the HUD, then you're in a good seating position. And then they would ignore that and they would sit low. And then the moment they got to doing anything other than navigation, the moment they needed to look outside for a threat. Or they needed to fly formation and keep eyes on their wingmen. They can't see their wingmen. They can't see outside because the canopy rail's right here. And they're like, I can't see them. Like yeah, you can't see him because you're sitting below the below the canopy rail. Like sit sit up high. That's how it feels in the in the F-86 when it auto lowers the seat. I'm like, cool, I can see through the HUD and I can't see anything outside the canopy. Can't see Harper: Yeah. SCUD: shit. Harper: As soon as you yeah, as soon as you look left or right, the canopy rail's right there. Yeah. SCUD: Yeah, way too low. On that note though, cool feature of the F eighty six, super cool feature because it's so old and analog, is the canopy was painted on both sides with dive angle paint indicators. So when you're in a dive, instead of having to look at the ADI or guess, you can just look out the side and see if you're on a 30 or a 40 or a 50 or a 60 degree dive. Because it's old. FiFi: Yeah. Which was later put into acrobatic aircraft too. When you look out on the wing of a pit of the pits and you see the little you see the little spider web out there hanging off the studs. Yeah. SCUD: The spider web. All right, let's talk about systems. Cause I do think this is where this module kind of can can shine. the engine sucks. Great job because it's supposed to. Like the spool FiFi: Yeah. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: up time on it is ages. And it can compress your stall and it can flame out. But it is, it is, it takes ages to get the power out of this thing. that's exactly how it should be. The engine, it'll go the plane'll go fast. Give give her a minute and she'll pick up speed, but she's not going to accelerate anytime soon. it handles really great when it's fast, but with that lack of power, she bleeds energy so hard in a fight. It's it you just look behind you for a second and just pull on the stick a little and it's like all my airspeed's gone. Harper: And I think one of the FiFi: Yeah, well Harper: one of the big thing i or sorry to cut you off, If you but I think one of the the big things is with the F eighty six, is if you are in a dog fight, you've gotta anticipate, okay, if I'm gonna pull hard here, I'm gonna bleed a lot of energy off. So I'm gonna s I'm gonna spool the engine up now before I even start the turn. And then you know, it's constant like I've gotta be SCUD: Wait. Harper: two steps ahead. Instead of one step ahead of the aircraft, I've got to be two steps ahead. FiFi: Yeah, it's true. Like it's and it what's what's cool about the F-86 is you have to fight it like a World War II airplane, in the sense of like, you know, World War II, you either had like energy fighters that would do like the zoom and boom and the dive bombs, right? And you know, you would you know, like the Mustang was a super famous zoom and boom fighter. The P forty seven was a super famous zoom and boom fighter, but meanwhile, like the one nine and the and the Spitfire were our turn fighters, our energy turnfighters and So w the really cool thing about the F-86 versus the MiG-15 is the MiG-15 was such a great turn fighter. And it it ran circles around the the the F-86 if you didn't know exactly what you're doing in it. And I think I think I think we need to constantly keep coming back and comparing the two aircraft together because it's because that's I mean, that's what it really was designed to go against. And you know, those those that was the matchup of like the century. when it came to developing doctrines. And yeah, like you said, SCUD: Absolutely. FiFi: like the MiG fifteen will will eat that thing for lunch if you try to get turning with it or climb, try to outclim it. But the F eighty six will that motor will outrun it if in a in a downhill in a downhill scenario. But it's it's interesting. SCUD: Well, it won't outrun it. It won't outrun the MiG. It'll just put the MiG in a spot. We'll we'll talk about that later, but it won't outrun Harper: Yeah. FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: the MiG downhill. It just puts the MiG in a position where the MiG dies. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: but it is it is an energy management machine. Like Phoebe said, i your best bet is to dive on something at high speed and then climb away, not get into a turn fight. which unfortunately every single like dog fight set up, every single time you set up instant action or go to a server to set up a fight, it's nose to nose. And you're like, well. I'm already at a disadvantage. Like should be diving on this guy from way above. But FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: it's also it's North American, right? They made the Mustang, which was a very famous dive and strafe then getaway fighter. This is just the next iteration of that. flight controls. the rudder's manual, but it does have hydraulically actuated elevator and rudder or elevator and ailerons. so because without that, I don't think they'd be able to turn this airplane. I mean, I I do not think that the the human pilot would have enough strength at the speeds this thing flies to be able to manipulate it. That being said, she's not snappy. She's got some pitch FiFi: No. SCUD: authority, but you you throw that thing into a roll and it's like, okay, any time now, it just doesn't it FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: does not it's not gonna snap roll on you. It's much more FiFi: It's a challenge. SCUD: effective with a rudder roll, especially being a swept wing plane. but yeah, the the ailerons are not they're not fierce, right? Harper: Mm-hmm. SCUD: some other system stuff that they've done really well at modeling. It's it's basic radios and nav systems. So it remember it's this is 47, you know, pre-1950s. It's tech. it has speed brakes, super advantage over the MiG, because the MiG does not have speed brakes, which is gonna come into play when we talk about diving downhill. the fuel system's a non-issue. You don't even have to think about it. It's unless you have external tanks, and then you Flip a switch and feet out of them. It's so super simple. the nose wheel steering is my least favorite system on this entire airplane. And they modeled it correctly. You have a nose wheel steering button, you're like, I'm I'm finally advancing to like the next iteration of aviation combat. I can turn the nose wheel with a button. That button only clicks the nose wheel on, only turns it on if that nose wheel is perfectly straight. And so if you like round a corner and you are not perfectly straight and you let go of that button and click it back, that nose wheel will the steering will not engage. And you have to sit there with mi differential brakes and do your damnedest to straighten this nose wheel out before it will click on. And Harper: Yeah. SCUD: there I didn't know that when I first started flying it. And I thought the bindings were I thought my joystick was broken. I thought the button was like only working sometimes. FiFi: Ha SCUD: It's and and then you watch it. Just go like an external view and click the nose wheel steering and click push the rudder and watch the watch the rudder flight control surface move and watch the nose wheel go like really slow. so it is. FiFi: I never knew that because I never knew that because I always just held the nose wheel steering button. Like I just held it down on the ground. I learned my lesson from other from other aircraft. SCUD: Yeah, good. Don't let it go. Don't let it go unless it's perfectly straight or you're screwed. I think the systems modeling is really well done, but it's a simple airplane, so it's not gonna wow you. It's just really well done. Until we get into the weapon systems, and that's where they done they've done a lot of really good systems modeling on a lot of the weapon systems, right up until it comes time to drop the bombs. And then I'm going to go on a fucking rant about that because my God. And I don't think that they've modeled it wrong. I think it's just well, I know there's one flaw. I know that that there's one issue with that system, but otherwise it's just probably skill issue and user error, because damn it. We'll get into Harper: Okay. SCUD: that in a minute. FiFi: But you've been like, okay, but I I wanna I wanna caveat this and preempt this. Scud has been so excited to do this and to talk about like the bomb toss and all sorts of stuff where I I have gotten I have sat through four hours of lectures and in academia from Scud SCUD: only three and a half. FiFi: from Scud 'cause he's talking about how cool this bomb toss is. So SCUD: Well, especially yeah, especially a year ago when we were diving into it and we never got around to the episode. FiFi: Yeah. And we never got around to doing it, yeah. SCUD: the F eighty six F had leading edge slats, but the version we have does not. Womp womp. I wish it did. how do you think it flies there, Harper? Harper: The the saber it's just like a just like a a a Mustang. I don't know. Just like a quick Mustang. SCUD: Fast musting. Harper: Yeah, a quick Mustang. SCUD: I I I don't dispute that. Lots of rudder and if you pull too hard and it she s stalls, it snap rolls on you. It's it's it's weird how it's not the same plane, but it flies like a fast Mustang. All right. FiFi: It's like its success it's like it's it's like its successor jet ended up having wing fences on it for some reason. SCUD: This one has some wing fences too. It does have a couple wing fences on Anyways, weapons. We already talked about it. 650 cals. Harper has mentioned ammunition for the 650 cals, which man, first, can we talk about how iconic looking this plane is? The F-86 is a gorgeous looking airplane. Harper: It's beautiful. It is. SCUD: and let's talk about iconic owners. Me and Fifi talked about this the other day. So if you're a famous actor and you have a lot of money and it's this is not current times, this is 30 years ago, and you're like I'm so famous and I have so much money that I and I love flying. I want to go buy I want to go buy a fighter jet. And at that time you could go out on on the market if you had the right contacts, you could get your hands on an F eighty six. there's a there's a particular actor that did own and fly an F-86. Fifi, you wanna tell them who it is? I don't know if Harper knows this. FiFi: Don't I I don't remember his name, but Harper: I don't think I do. I don't think I do. FiFi: I'm gonna put a picture of him in here right now. And then it was Wharf from from Star Trek. The the guy who played Wharf from Star SCUD: Michael Dorn, Wharf from Star Trek the Next Generation. FiFi: Trek. Yeah. And in the picture, like the SCUD: Owned and operated it. FiFi: yeah, the picture of him, he looks like an actual F eighty six pilot. Like he he he looks like he looks like SCUD: He looks like he's yeah, he looks like a Korean war pilot. FiFi: a legit. Like I I was like, I was When I for when I very first saw the picture before Sky brought it up, I was I looked at it and I was like, wait, he was in the Air Force too? Because like one of my favorite things like people always make fun of us for being in the Air Force here and there because of the inter service rivalry. But I always like to remind people that Chuck Norris was in the Air Force. And I thought Wharf was, but actually it turns out no, he was just an enthusiast and he actually just SCUD: No. No. He was FiFi: he caused he was the original Air Force cosplayer. SCUD: Yeah, it was. After he cosplayed as a Klingon, yeah. today is a good day to fly. so I I I brought up how gorgeous the plane is because I love the arrangement of the machine guns on it. I love the six fifties like strapped to the side of the the you know, between the inlet and the outside of the fuselage. and as Harper mentioned, 300 rounds per gun. And you don't have to fire all six. You can fire them in different pairs to extend your ammunition count so you're not burning it all. it carries bombs, it carries rockets. It does have, and they were later equipped. And in DCS we have aim nine bravos. So good luck with those. if you're mad that they don't seem to ever track the target and hit, welcome to aim nine bravos. That's that's the tech you had at at the end of the that airplane's life's lifespan there. So And then the F eighty six was designed, and it is not in DCS, but it was designed to drop tactical nuclear weapons, tactical nukes. so it was built around a system to allow it to employ nukes. we'll talk about that too. Yeah. So so versatile, right? FiFi: That's terrifying. That's absolutely terrifying. Like you can't even get away from a nuke in that. SCUD: very, very versatile. Now let's talk about how you employ these weapons and the frustration. So we have the gun sight. Fifi has issues with it. Is it just the th the the the texturing or what is it? FiFi: It's it yes, everything. Like it's just it's I it was just it was just tough to try to like it one, it it it's it's it's just rough to look through, you know, and then and then it was just tough to use. And then, you know, there was maybe a gyro in there that but I felt like the the the Mustang gyro, like the p the the the version of the gun site that's in the P fifty one, 'cause it's not the same it's not the same gun site. It a lot of people think SCUD: It is not. FiFi: it's the same gun site, but it's not. But I feel like the P fifty one gun site is so much better than Than this one. And like I stopped, I just used a fixed reticle and I was just like Kentucky wind digit after a while. Cause I was like, all right, there, there it is. I'm gonna pull it like half a circle outside and just pull the trigger, squeeze the trigger, and hopefully, duh, I don't know. I'm aiming by tracer at this point. That's just that's it. That's my that's that's my life. SCUD: You you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. The gunside is a nightmare until you start to figure out how to use it. So it is not the same gunsight as the Mustang. Originally the F-86 had a spare gunsight, which was similar to the Mustangs. This has a similar symbology, but this is a radar ranged assisted, radar assisted gunsight. you can still, like with the pistol grip on the throttle, you can twist it to adjust a range and you can set the wingspan like in like a normal older gunsight. but with the radar on, the radar should start ranging and then adjusting that gunsight for you. The reason that that is so frustrating is because the radar sucks. It's this like look at the airplane. Look at the look look at the tiny little teeny little like baseball-sized bulge right above the inlet. That's your radar like dome. Like it's it's it's the tiniest little first gen shit radar. The azimuth sweep on it is so tiny. The range is so short. So it's like, yeah, it you're in your dog fighting and the enemy's maneuvering. The radar's the radar's like, where do you go? Huh? Where? Where? Harper: Yeah. SCUD: Like it's so so the b gunsite, and then all of a sudden it'll see it for just a second. You'll get the red light. Just for a moment, the gunsight will the radar will see it, and the gunsight will like move and then immediately snap back away and and drift all over the HUD. It is it is terrible. It is terrible. FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: That being said, there is an electrical cage button on the the throttle. And when you push that button, it just snaps the gunsight to the center. So instead of having to go caged and lock the gunsight. You can use it until you don't feel like it's working. And then you could just hit one button and then snap it to the center. So you kind of have an option there, Fifi. FiFi: Yeah, I just never I just never turned it on. Like after trying to learn it and then it like it giving me that whole thing, I just like never turned it on. I like, you know what? Ain't my tracer. It's fine. I just I'm I'm gonna Yeah, I'm gonna fli I'm SCUD: Well, you have the ammo to aim by Tracer. And comparing this to the MiG, right? Fifty cals have some bullet drop, but they don't have the bullet drop of the twenty mils and the thirty seven mils. Cause that Harper: Yeah. SCUD: MIG, those bullets, when you're in a turn, those bullets are going way under the enemy. Like it is so hard to lead turn or lead the shot with the the MIG. The at least the F eighty six you can you can kind of Kentucky windage that. FiFi: Yeah, but with the MiG, with the MiG with that thirty seven millimeter canyon, you just gotta get close. SCUD: That's true. Harper: Yeah, that's the thing. And if you like if you get a hit if you get a hit with that thirty seven mil, they're gonna feel it pretty hard. But FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: yeah. Yeah. the radar ranging gunside. Can also radar range the rockets. This is a brilliant part. If you switch all the first off, this thing's a Rube Goldberg machine of switches to get the weapons to fire. It is FiFi: Ha ha ha SCUD: not an easy system to learn. It is terribly complex. it's a little bit less complex than the F-100, same gun sight, same system. but the F-86 weapon systems are a little bit more difficult to wrap your head around. But if you get it set up for rockets and you are diving on the ground, And the radar starts to see the ground, it will start moving the pipper to show you where those rockets will hit. So it does really well for rocket attacks. you can drop bombs manually. This is this is where sorry if I get on a little soapbox. This is where I say you can see the generational change, you can see the the evolution, let's call it that, the evolution of of air combat. In the World War II fighters, you you just kind of use this the caged gun site and figured out how many mills in a dive you could. Used to drop your bomb on target. when the F-86 came out, they before the the automatic bomb dropping system, they they did the same thing. You would dive at a set speed and angle, and you would you would release the bombs at a certain altitude, and the bomb should ballistically hit the target. What what they did is is they have a chart. It's up on the glare shield, and you can flip through different pages based on your starting altitude and your airspeed, and you can spin a dial, and it tells you. Hey, if you're at this altitude and airspeed and you're at a 40 degree dive angle, this is the altitude above the target you should release to hit the target. So you have like an actual chart built in. You don't have to have like paper charts. It's built in the plane. And then right next to the HUD is an altimeter with a little red dial that you can set at that altitude. You can be like, I drop it 4,000 feet over the target. The target's at 3,000 feet up. Okay, so at 7,000 feet is when I should drop the bomb. And so you set the little altimeter red needle to seven. And now instead of having to look down at the altimeter in the cockpit, while you're looking at the HUD, you've got a little altimeter on the side of your HUD that counts down. So it's like we went from Kentucky windage bombing to like Kentucky windage with charts in an altimeter. Harper: Yeah. FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: And then they add in the radar gunsite and the auto bomb system. And I fucking hate this thing. I love this plane, but I hate it because Harper: Yeah. SCUD: if you've flown the F-100, you know that you can like dive on a target, you can cage the gunsight when the plane's set upright. You can cage the gunsight and then hold the pickle button and the b the plane will drop the bombs when it decides it wants to to hit the target. Same system in the F-86. And I have gotten it to work maybe one out of every 10 or 15 times I've tried it. And everything I read online says, you gotta, you gotta like fly really, really careful. You're upset the gyros. Probably true. But I don't know if I'm making it work right or not. The one problem that I know is inherent is when you hit the electrical cage button to tell the the bombing computer, this old analog computer, I think it's probably like two squirrels on a hamster wheel and some pulleys and like I don't know. But when you hit the cage button, which drops the fucking nut in front of the squirrel so he starts running, FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: The gun site's supposed to cage, like it does when you're in a dogfight. You hit the electrical cage button and it snaps to the center. That doesn't happen in DCS. So I don't know if the system's working because I hit that and your clue that it's working is that the gun site should respond a certain way and it doesn't. everyone I've read everywhere I've read online said, do it this way and it works. I can get it to work every time. I do it that way and it doesn't work. When somebody else says, No, no, no, that's the wrong way. Do it this way and it works. And I try that and doesn't work. so it is an A terribly complex system that I'm sure once I figure it out, I'll like it. But you should be able to dive on a target, click a couple buttons in the right order, hold the pickle button, and the airplane will drop the bombs for you at the right time. If you guys know how to make that work, comment. I will reach out to you. You can walk me through it because my God, it's like golf, right? I hate golf. I'll play golf and for Harper: Here we go. SCUD: for for six or seven holes, I will slice the ball. Off the course every time. And the moment I'm about to quit, the moment I'm like, this game sucks. I don't understand why I'm doing this. I fucking hate it. I'm out. I'm done. The moment I make that decision to quit, I'll swing the club one more time and I'll finally hit like a drive right down the middle of the fairway. And I'll be like, okay, I could do this. I can do this. And then it's an and it's another three holes of shit. And then I'm about to quit, and then I hit one straight. So that's the way it feels trying to get this thing to drop bombs. Every FiFi: Mm. SCUD: bomb drop, I'm like, Damn it, damn it, damn it. And the moment I'm about to quit, I'm like one more, and then it drops when it's supposed to and it hits the target. I'm like, okay, let me just do that one more time to see if I can get it to work again. Nope. Ten more bomb drops that fail. I'm about to quit. there's one that worked. It just it just keeps me. It's I'm don't know. It's punishment. Harper: And for the viewers for the viewers who can't quite gauge Scud's frustration with the with the bombs, I I came into Discord just to come and say hello just probably about three hours ago. SCUD: Ha ha ha. Harper: And he's sitting there in VR, just having the worst time of his life. Can't get these bombs to work, and the bombs were landing f just anywhere in the vicinity of everywhere but where he was aiming. SCUD: If they even came off the airplane. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: It's FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: I I want to love the bomb dropping system and I hate it. On that note, one other thing, and this is where I think the the people who made the F-86 went the next level, and then it's part of this module that probably nobody has ever experienced. It's like that that one more layer deep that nobody ever understands or has taken the time to learn, or people don't even know is there, and that's the lab system. We talked about it dropping nukes. Like the MiG-21, the airplane was designed with an entirely separate bombing system and separate gyros, which, if you turn them on and set them up correctly, they do work in DCS and it's pretty cool. It's a novelty, it's not something you probably use in game, but it's really neat. And that is the ability to fly in low level extremely fast. And then you hold the pickle button and you start pitching up at a very specific G. And as the plane, you do that right over the target, and as the plane is just passing through inverted, it will release the bomb. So the bomb goes straight up and then falls straight down onto the target. That was designed for nukes so that you could drop the bomb, you could throw the bomb up and then run away really fast before the bomb hit the ground and blew you up. and it is something that you can employ with a nuke in the MiG-21. There are not nukes available for the F-86, but the devil the devs still went to that depth and they fully modeled the lab system and all of its gyros and all of its systems. And unlike the MiG-21, it's actually got a giant gauge on the cockpit just for the labs that tells you Harper: Mm. SCUD: how many G's you're pulling in the vertical and if your plane is rolling left or right. So you don't have to look outside. You can just you can use that gauge to keep wings level. So they've done a really great job of modeling this system that probably nobody will ever use. Womp womp. FiFi: It's like I like to call it the Uncle Rico move. SCUD: Yeah. FiFi: You wanna see me you wanna see me throw that thing over the mountain? I could totally throw that over the mountain. SCUD: Don't you wanna bet I can throw this bomb over the mountain? FiFi: Yeah. But it's but it's cool. It's it it is that that's a cool thing. This is this is probably I I I wanna tell everybody this is probably the most excited thing that's the most the this is the thing that excited Scott the most, like trying to figure one to figure out and do it when SCUD: Yeah. FiFi: he read into it. We and when he read into it he was like, Wait, we can do this? And then, you know, went into this deep dive about about that. So it's it's it was I've I've I've seen him do it like a couple of times and it is pretty cool because it yeah, it it works really well. SCUD: It works beautifully. The that does. The tossing the bombs up. Dropping the bombs down doesn't work. Trop fly tossing them up, beautiful. you say it's an Uncle Rico moment, like watch me throw football over the mountains, and I feel like dropping the bombs down with the auto bomb drop system is the part where Kip backs over the Tupperware and it just explodes and he's like it and just drives off. That's that's FiFi: Ha ha ha SCUD: it's the Kip moment. FiFi: Going to pick up LaFuanda. SCUD: But now let's get into like some some some less like deep divey stuff and just let's talk about the the playability of this. FiFi: Yeah, the module and playability. Hapa, I'll let you take the first. Harper: I think playability is fantastic, but the thing is you've the the the at the moment, well I mean there's probably guys out there that fly it that don't have any f or don't have many friends that fly it as well. Like I know I'm a guy who fly enjoys flying a lot of the older stuff and it's like who who who's gonna fly this with me? And it's just crickets. But I think I think the playability's good. It just needs I think a lot pe more more people need to Even just trial it. Give it a go. And then you're like, I love this thing. And you go and buy it. And then I th I just think it needs the cor the whole Korean era needs a lot more people involved in the community, especially servers like if we s if we had more Korean servers, I think it would be a module that's flown a lot more. Because it it's a very it's a very under underrated module. SCUD: Piffy. FiFi: I think I think it would be I think so here we go. Go with me on this one. So just like how a lot of everybody who flies the modern jets always talk about man, I wish we had more red fort jets that we could fly these modern jets against. I feel like when it comes to the 70s through the 50s era jets, all the red four players are going, I wish we hadn't. I wish we had American jets to fly against for this. Because the MiG-21 has a massive cult following, right? And then the even the MiG-15 has a massive cult following. But there's nobody flying the F eighty six against the MiG-15 guys. And so they're always having to upclass themselves to go fight, you know, against F fours and F one hundreds now and stuff like that. When really they should be flying against the F six. And I think there's a lot of people out there that if you If you jumped in and be like, Who's got a MiG fifteen and wants to fly against me and while I'm in this F eighty six? I bet you you'd get a line out the door of people wanting to do that. SCUD: I I yeah, I agree with you. I think I think it is an in a really awesome module. Like we talked about, it's a little dated, but it's a really good, easy to fly, easy to easy like entry level skill to get in and and learn to fly it. easy to take off and land. it it it fights, but you don't have to like know how to do crazy maneuvers. I think that if it had an environment that was suited to it, It would shine a lot more. I I think what what did I read here? Somebody said it's it's one of DCS's best flying experiences attached to one of its most neglected modules. and I don't think the module's FiFi: Ooh, that's a good win. SCUD: neglected, but I think the environment Harper: Mm. SCUD: is because we don't have a Korean war environment. But that is Harper: Yeah. SCUD: upon us to build it, because we have the assets to do it. The Korean War was fought with a lot of World War Two assets, right? There's a couple tanks that we could that we have in the game we could build. There's a couple of World War Two assets that we could put in there. We could put together, people could put together a campaign or a mission that is, like you said, maybe, maybe some, some Mustangs, some Corsairs, MiG-15s, F-86s. you just have to have somebody who's who who wants to make that world come to life. And I think it would it would be a fun module to fly. I think you'd see a lot of MiG-15 and a lot of F-86 flying if the environment was built for it. Maybe that's something we do on one of our campaigns. We always bounce back and forth between Cold War and modern and and late Cold War and early Cold War. Maybe we build a campaign that's that's that's the MiG fifteen and the the the F eighty six and maybe a couple of the fighters that carried over into Korea. And FiFi: Yeah. We could throw the LA seven on the on on the Russian side for that. SCUD: Yeah. And I think I think that would be successful. If you just built a mission or a campaign, rather, that was just for the MiG-15 and the F eighty six, it wouldn't do well because there's not a lot of people that own and fly those. There's a small cult following. But if you also threw in some of the war birds that fought in Korea, the World War Two planes, well now you're opening that Korean war fighting to people who maybe don't have a Korean war jet, right? so it just needs a home, right? They did a really good job with this module and it just Just doesn't have a place to FiFi: Well, SCUD: live right now. FiFi: that just goes Harper: Mm. FiFi: back to my to my theory that again has not been unconfirmed by by friends that DCS is a digital museum. DCS is a digital museum and they're preserving preserving air iconic aircraft. SCUD: And I don't wanna take away from DCS, but I wonder if there would ever be a successful push for a Korean War style build in DCS when when you've got IL2, Korea that Harper: Yeah. SCUD: have put, you know, a massive amount of work into building a Korean war simulator. So I don't know that it would be in the interest of DCS to do that. I just wish that for the people who love these airplanes and for the people who develop this airplane, I wish we had more of a An arena for it to fly. I do want to talk a little bit about fighting it against the MiG, and I want to talk about my most recent experience with that. Harper: Ha ha ha. FiFi: Ha ha ha. SCUD: Getting my ass kicked. Cause right before this episode, Harper sees me flying the F-86 and he's like, Let's fight. I'm gonna jump in the MiG fifteen. And I'm like, Let's go. man, that was fun. Harper: Ha ha. SCUD: it it's this weird crossover, right? It's it's it's hardcore yank and bank dog fighting, but it's it's at speeds where the planes are gonna kill you so much more quickly. It's so it's this, it is this weird, it feels like this weird. meld of fast jet versus and and like old style World War II dog fighting into one. best thing I had going for me the entire time was that Harper couldn't see me for shit. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: And I still got my ass kicked. Every single merge I rolled in behind him. Harper: Like he would he would put he Yeah, every time. And no, so I think I think one of one of the things that FiFi: keep going, keep going. I want to hear this story. Harper: I was worried about the whole time, especially in the MiG 15, is you like you might be in a turn fight like with an F eighty six, but also what's more dangerous than him is blacking out, and what's more dangerous than that is getting so quick that you Just compress the whole airframe, you got you lose all controllability of your elevator, Alarons, and you just you're just an unguided missile going straight for the ground. SCUD: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, every single merge, I'm like, I see you, and he's like, I don't see you. And I would roll in behind him and try to get set up for a shot. And I would have probably a good 30 or 45 seconds of what could have been a good shot, except the gunsight is going like this. And FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: and then even with that advantage, Harper would be like he'd be like, I still don't see you. And every time he said that, I'm like, It's because I'm behind you, dude. And then he would turn and and the fight wouldn't go my way. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: it was it was really, really fun. The Harper: Yeah. FiFi: So go on, give us some specifics about how how that how how that happened and why, 'cause I think this is important about the differences. Harper: I so so what what I would do is like he I'd I'd look behind me. I'd be in the con he'd be like, You're conning I look behind and there's this this little contrail behind me. I'm like, shit. So as soon as I see him, just smash the rudder, yank the stick over, and it slow like it slows down so quick. And then so I'll kick it one way and then kick it the other way and we're we we're just in this like spiral, scissors all the way going down to the ground. But I'll I'll still be able to slow down more than him and then make him overshoot and then and then he's like, fuck. SCUD: Yeah. I didn't expect that. I have speed brakes. He doesn't. But my speed breaks don't mean shit when he is stomping on the rudder because he has rudder authority. Think like think think the hornet when we're dogfighting the hornet and you get in that you get in that that fight where you're just both pointed nose down and you're trying to circle around each other. And we'd get into that and then I and and I'm out of energy. Like my my stick left and right does nothing. I'm trying to stomp on the rudder and the plane is like, I'll think about turning. And then I'd watch Harper's MIG just swip around on me. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: Like just the it would just turn on a dime and he would be shooting me. And I'm like, God. And and like you said, Fifi, this his the MiG is gonna it's gonna beat the F eighty six in a slow fight every day. It's just so hard to fight against him with all that rudder authority in the MiG. then I try to take him downhill fast because that's where the MiG dies. So you you cannot outclimb a MiG. it's it's got way better climb performance. It's also thousands of pounds lighter than the F eighty six, which is why. But if you get that MIG going really fast, like Harper said, when the compressibility kicks in, your elevator goes away completely. Like you will pull the stick all the way in your lap and the nose will not move at all. And you are a ballistic missile going to the center of the earth. FiFi: No stretching just stretching control cables at that point. SCUD: Yeah. Yeah, it it was I I tried that, but Harper knows better than to go downhill really fast. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: And it it was a lot of fun. Then then I jump in like I I started to realize I can't get slow. Like if I stay fast, I at least have a chance. So then it became this like high speed dog fight. Think like like rate fighting, right? We're but not. We're we're still like getting glancing blows at each other, but it's we're we're trying to keep the speed up. And suddenly I had a fighting chance. but then by the time we figured that out, that now we're at the surface. Like we've hit it all the way down to the mountains and I'm like, well shit. Right. So Harper: 'Cause we were starting off at twenty thousand feet, like head head to head, twenty thousand feet. And nearly every time by the ti you know, by the time we both had a couple of couple of mergers, you know, we've gone past each other a couple of times, we're near the ground. Like And tell SCUD: yeah. It's two it's two planes that look identical and they are just falling together out of the sky. Harper: Tell tell how you broke my ankles around the mountain. Like you went down in the mountain and then Yeah. SCUD: yeah. Yeah, there's there's a moment where we pass each other and and now we're waiting to come back around the circle again. And I and I see the I see a mountain ridge in front of me. I'm like, all right, that's well, that's my chance. So so I I pop up over the mountain ridge and like do an inverted ridge crossing, but I do it down to the right. I'm like, I know he's gonna see me go down to the right. And the moment I duck under the mountain, I rip that thing to the left and I just run out the other way. And then I as I do this, like 270 degree turn back in. I see him crossing the mountain and he's like, come out, come out wherever you are. And he's turning to the right away from me. And I'm like, yes. FiFi: Ha ha. SCUD: Reel him in, reel him in. Harper: He broke he broke my ankles so hard. I was like no. SCUD: He's like, where come out, come out wherever you are, where are you? And then a couple tracers go past this canopy and he goes, shit. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: And he goes, shit, firewalls it and climbs. And I'm like, Well, yeah, Harper: Yeah. SCUD: that trap has been sprung. It's gone. Cause I can't outclimb Harper: Mm. SCUD: him. All this was frustrating. It's like not an easy fight. Like it's it's it's damn hard, but it was damn fun. and Harper: Yeah, it's great. SCUD: it's so much more fun fighting against a real person in a MiG because the AI MIG is like Goaded. It's not an ace. FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: Every AI MIG you fight in the F eighty six, that MIG is beyond an ace. every, every move you make, I don't know, I don't know why the AI MIG 15 is so difficult to fight, but fighting against a real person that is trying to think and do these maneuvers made it damn fun. All that comes into saying that when you get a kill, because I got one kill, one real kill, one maneuver Harper: Yeah, you did. SCUD: kill, and the rest of the time Harper wiped the floor with me. but that being said, when you get a kill in this airplane because it's so difficult to employ, it is very gratifying. Like you work really hard for it and you have to really know the airplane and what it can do. And then when you finally get a kill, it feels good. It feels way better than maybe getting a kill in a much easier aircraft, which is really fun. Harper: If i if SCUD: It's super rewarding. Harper: if any of you watching this fly the MiG twenty one and you get kills in that in like modern servers, same feeling in the F eighty six. Same same gratification. SCUD: Yeah. And I'd say in the MiG-15 as well, because after a minute I jumped in the MiG just to try to go toe to toe with him. and then he still kicked my ass. yeah. And I blacked out probably three out of four times in the MiG fifteen. Cause you know in GCS, like as you start to Harper: It's very easy. SCUD: gray out, like it gets gray and then it gets more gray and then it gets more gray and then you black out. Harper: Very gradual. SCUD: In the MiG-15, it goes gray, black. You're like, shit. Harper: You just see Scud like out the distance heading towards the mountain going straight. Like, Scud, that's a mountain. I'm blacked out. And then all of a sudden there was one time where he blacked out and he he wakes up like as he's about to go into the mountain. He's fighting the stick, he's pulling up. I'm like, You're gonna make it, you're gonna make it and he just skims the mountain as he's about to make it. SCUD: Yeah, just pancakes right on the edge of mountain. I bet it I I bet that like the fire and parts went over the mountain peak. Harper: Yeah. SCUD: It was it was so much fun. But see, Harper: Good first. SCUD: that's the thing. Like like the the gun sight's hard to use. It's difficult to drop bombs in it. It's super easy to fire rockets. It's a goddamn hard airplane to dogfight in. But here we are talking about how much fun it was. Harper: It was so much fun. SCUD: That's why I say it's it's it's an underrated module. It it just needs a place where people can thrive in it because it is So much fun. Harper: Yeah. Grab your friends, FiFi: And there we have it. SCUD: A riot. Harper: trial it, see if it's for you. That's all I gotta say. There's there's no harm in trying it. FiFi: Yeah. SCUD: I I think I'm gonna put some pressure on our our campaign builders to make a Korean war with a couple of war birds that are era appropriate. The F eighty six and the MiGs. Just to see how it goes. Harper: I think it I think it'd go so well. Especially for those World War FiFi: I'd love to I'd love to get a jet kill. I'd love to get a jet kill in my Mustang. SCUD: What were you saying, Harper? Harper: Or the Corsair. FiFi: Yeah, go ahead. Harper: no, I was just gonna say I think it's gonna be I think it'd be a smash hit for especially like ac you know, if we get that server going and then a lot of those w guys that do Warbird Wednesdays, I think they you know, I think they would come over and they could even use their Corsair P fifty one in the Korean server as well. And I think Yeah. Yeah. SCUD: Yeah, I think it opens that door. Well, and and and let's also it's not out yet. We did have a chance to to kind of fly it a little, and it was a a pleasant nightmare. but Red Star is making a MiG-17, which falls right into this, right exactly where this needs to be. and that's gonna be even harder to fight against in the F-86, because the 17 has an afterburner and speed brakes. it also is a bigger threat to you than the MiG-15. is like the the MiG seventeen when we test flew it at Flightseam Expo, that plane is extremely deadly. Like it wants to kill you all the time. but so here we are talking about FiFi: yeah. All the time. So much fun to fly. SCUD: an environment where these jets can thrive and we know there's another one on the way. And the MiG seventeen I think has a radar. I think it has a radar assisted gun site, but it does it it definitely has burner. It definitely has burner. Good. Harper: I'm excited. FiFi: I was too busy trying not to die when I was flying it. So I was too busy trying not to die when I was flying it. So I I I can't remember if that SCUD: I thought the Hun I thought the Hun was a plane that was gonna try to kill you more than any other module. And the MiG seventeen is substantially worse. It is it is a damn hard plane to fly. FiFi: The hun looks like the tamest version of the F-18 compared to compared to the Big 17. Like. SCUD: So yeah, again, there's more there's more content of this era that's gonna drop. so that just again, that make seventeen needs a home. We need to start putting together some campaigns and some places where these things feel alive. FiFi: Agreed. Comment down below. Hashtag Korean war. Korean Harper: Get it out there. Get the message out there. SCUD: Forgotten War, forgotten modules. FiFi: boog bulgogi bulgogi hooligans. So SCUD: Yeah, this is Chopshi One One. Chopshi One One. Is anybody out there? FiFi: man. So but yeah, that's I think so to wrap this up. Even though I have five children, so I know I can't do that. But the F eighty six, great jet, definitely worth a look. And I think a lot of people are missing missing out by not just at least trialing the jet and trying it out and flying it. it's easy to learn, difficult to master, which is exactly what you would want in in in a casual gaming environment. And yeah, definitely get out there and just try it. It's you you you're gonna have a lot of fun. with it. I think I think that's probably the the overall theme here that we have from the from the F eighty six. SCUD: Yeah. I I this is I I think I mentioned this on a past episode, but I'll mention it here because we're talking about investing money into another module, right? And God knows we all need more modules that we don't fly. I've got so many. but I I heard this from somebody else who who plays video games, not just like not DCS, but just a gamer, about whether game X or Y was worth the money. And he said that for him, if he can get an hour per dollar of gameplay out of it, it's worth it to him. Right? And I really like that because I have got way more than 70 hours of flight time in the Hornet and in the Mustang and in a bunch of these other modules. And some of them I probably have about 20 25 hours in it. But that's I like that. That's kind of how my brain works with this. So so at at full price, if it's a you know $50 module, if you think you're gonna get 50 hours out of it, it's probably worth the money. If you don't, wait till it's on sale and pay $25 for it. If that gives you 25 hours of fun time in a in an F eighty six, then maybe it was worth it. but that's kind of how I look at these things now. Like if I if I'm gonna get a dollar per hour of gameplay, and I and I use that same thing with other games too. If I see some stupid game that's on sale for like $12, and I'm like, that looks kind of fun. Looks stupid, but kind of fun. If I'm like, would I get 12 hours out of it? Yeah, okay, I'll I'll I'll pay for it. so a dollar an hour is kind of like the threshold. Harper: A good way of looking at it. SCUD: Let's get some final thoughts FiFi: That's a good way look at it. I like SCUD: from FiFi: that. SCUD: Harper. Harper: I think yeah, I just to relay, you know, on on the F eighty six that's why Eagle Dynamics has trials. So you can try these things. And you might not even know that you like it, but you've got to try it and just just get into it. Get in that atmosphere, you know? It's hard for a reason. These jets are not your you don't have autopilot. You know, you've got no hard no screens because who needs that? Back in the Korean War, that's what they that's what they had. And that's what that's what I want you to to invest at least. g all right, I'm gonna give the viewers something here. If you can trial it, try it for two hours and and that'll give you a a good indication whether you like it or not. Watch some tutorials so you don't get frustrated like old Scud boy over here dropping the volts. FiFi: Ha ha ha Harper: No, but honestly, it's it's such a sick jet. and it it's it's here for a reason and I think a lot more people just need to be opened up to that world because they don't even know if they like it or not, 'cause they haven't tried anything from that era. I think that's a great I I would rather s I would rather someone probably s to get into that error to start with the F eighty six over the MiG fifteen. It's a little bit more I guess user friendly and than the MiG. SCUD: Every Western airplane is more user friendly than any Soviet airplane in this game. Harper: Yeah, yeah. But I think it's good to like get your feet wet in in that era, even if it's not your thing. because we I mean we just had a 20-minute session going against each other and it was some of the finest flying I've ever had on DCS. It was SCUD: It was so much fun. Harper: so good, yeah. So that's my thoughts on it. SCUD: And it's a and FiFi: And again. SCUD: it's fun feeling. I'm in a the F-86 is just a silver F eighty six, but when you look behind you and there's a giant red MiG-15, two plane lengths behind you with the 37mm cannon, you're just like, goddammit. Like if that plane was any other color, it wouldn't feel as bad. But when it's just bright red, you're like, so easy to see the smile on that pilot's face right now. FiFi: Yeah. That's good. So well with that, thanks everybody for showing up and as usual watching. sticking to our Thursday. We haven't had any complaints yet about our Thursday release schedule. So keep liking, sharing, commenting, subscribing, getting everything out and about and around. And we'll catch everybody in the post show. So SCUD: Yeah, on Patreon, the post show show, where we get more unhinged. That's where we really like let Harper out of the cage. on that note, FiFi: Got a rant coming. SCUD: Thanks for being here, Harper, and Harper: Thank you. SCUD: Rifle Kazoo.