Latest / The Occult Rejects / Inside the Temple of Astarte — Maximilian Raphael Paul on the OTA, Initiation, and Ceremonial Magick

Transcript

Inside the Temple of Astarte — Maximilian Raphael Paul on the OTA, Initiation, and Ceremonial Magick · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: You see something's going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What?
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 4: What?
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: I Welcome back to the Occult Rejects. Today we're joined
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: by Maximilian Raphael Paul, a senior member of the Auto
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Temple arstarts. She said, there are OTA, an initiatory order
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: within the modern tradition of ceremonial magic that traces its
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: beginnings back to nineteen seventy in the work of its founder,
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Carol polk Running. What makes Max particularly interesting to me
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: is that his experience with ceremonial magic comes from more
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: than simply reading the literature or experimenting with rituals on
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  Speaker 3: his own. He entered into a living initiatory tradition and
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  Speaker 3: had the opportunity to study directly under the person who
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: created and developed that system, giving him a perspective on
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  Speaker 3: magic that comes from years of practice, initiation, mentorship, and
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: participation within an actual working order. The OTA occupies an
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  Speaker 3: interesting place in the history of modern American occultism, drawing
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  Speaker 3: upon older currents of Western ceremonial magic while developing its
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: own identity, rituals, methods, and initiatory tradition. More than fifty
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  Speaker 3: years after its founding, that tradition is still being practiced
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  Speaker 3: and passed from generation, from generation of magicians to another,
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  Speaker 3: which raises some fascinating questions about what happens when occult
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: knowledge moves beyond books and becomes something transmitted directly between
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  Speaker 3: teacher and student. Today, we're going to allow Max to
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  Speaker 3: tell his own story, explain the tradition from the inside,
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  Speaker 3: and take us wherever the conversation leads. But before we
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  Speaker 3: introduce Max, let me introduce the other rejects that are
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: joining us. Judith though Loon is here. What is going on, Judith?
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  Speaker 3: How are you?
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  Speaker 4: I'm fine?
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  Speaker 5: Thank you for having me Max.
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  Speaker 6: I look forward to for you to share your experience
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  Speaker 6: with us.
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  Speaker 7: And hello everybody.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you very much for joining us. Do you want
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: to you want to promote anything? Let anybody know where
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: they can find all your stuff, just in case you
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: know they don't know who you.
• 2:15
  Speaker 6: Will you I'm sorry? Yes, And you can find me
• 2:20
  Speaker 6: as a as Saloon on YouTube x and Striker where
• 2:25
  Speaker 6: I do my weekly brunch.
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  Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you so much. And then my man Brandon,
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  Speaker 3: what is going on maggis in the media is he? Why? Hello?
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  Speaker 1: Hello one and all out there Today this is going
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  Speaker 1: to be quite exciting. I' mean, yeah, this is gonna
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  Speaker 1: be great. Maximilian down here is going to enlighten us
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  Speaker 1: all to the definitely things that I don't know much about,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: which is Pokearonion himself as well as your own work.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So this is going to be quite a fantastic day,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: especially for the day of the Sun. Everyone follow me
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: do the thing. Magis in the media dropping tomorrow morning
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: ten a m. Get up and listen to Alan Chapman
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: talk about the craziness of the life that he has
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: lived and what he is doing with Crowley's work and Magia.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Other than that, we're gonna do it, and we're gonna
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  Speaker 1: do a great Thank you for having me, Nick, and
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  Speaker 1: thank you Eric as well as the Loon for this
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  Speaker 1: fine day.
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  Speaker 3: Let's go. Yeah, thank you very much, ma Man, I
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  Speaker 3: appreciate you making it so and last but not least,
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  Speaker 3: we got Eric. What is going on. They're so happy
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: you can make it today.
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  Speaker 8: What's up guys, Nick, Brandon, Judith, it's good to see
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  Speaker 8: y'all again. And Maximilian, it's great to meet you. I'm
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  Speaker 8: excited for this conversation. So if you guys want to
• 3:35
  Speaker 8: check me out, you can go find my show Music,
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  Speaker 8: Myth and Magic on YouTube at Eric Arcadian and I
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  Speaker 8: actually just dropped a video yesterday about scams that are
• 3:47
  Speaker 8: targeting my creative friends. So like authors, musicians, artists, if
• 3:53
  Speaker 8: you are getting some phishy emails. I talked about that
• 3:56
  Speaker 8: in this video. Kind of different from my usual magical
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  Speaker 8: stuff that I talk about, but I've been getting hounded
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  Speaker 8: by a lot of spam, so I wanted to bring
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  Speaker 8: it to light.
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  Speaker 3: No, that's great. I think that was very important that
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  Speaker 3: you brought that up, because I do think that goes
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  Speaker 3: on quite awesently actually, so very good. Thank you, Eric,
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  Speaker 3: and thank you for making it again, sir. And finally
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  Speaker 3: the guest himself. What is going on in Max? How
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: are you? And please let everybody know anything you'd like
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: to promote or plug.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me
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  Speaker 4: on the show. I'm honored. This is real pleasure, So
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: thank you so much. I can think of nothing more
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  Speaker 4: fun to do on a nice Sunday afternoon. It's wonderful.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: We've got a lot of things to plug in the OTA.
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  Speaker 4: We've been quite quite busy of the past few years.
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  Speaker 4: My primary vocation is is keeping keeping our arch of age,
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: keeping Poke moving, keeping him producing, creating, And it was
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: just last year, at the end of last year, in
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: the beginning this year, we produced a series called American Magic.
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  Speaker 4: You can find that on Apple and on to Be,
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: to Apple TV, on to b and on on on
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: Google YouTube, and you can watch that. That was a
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: blast to film. It's fascinating. It's it's actually an expansion
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: on a lot of the work that that Polk would
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: be doing over over the past fifty years. Obviously, a
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: lot of people remember Poke from his I think it
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: was like late nineties Magic of Solomon.
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  Speaker 3: Video.
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  Speaker 4: It's a classic. You can find that much much too.
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  Speaker 4: I think Polk's accepted it now, but originally, much to
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  Speaker 4: his chagrin, that it's it's you can find it on
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  Speaker 4: YouTube in a whole bunch of places. It's it's it's
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: out there. It's you can find it wherever you like.
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  Speaker 4: But if you're interested in any of the titles, any
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: of the books that Pocus and the Order has produced,
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  Speaker 4: you'll find on pokrunnion dot com. You'll find some of
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: the books on Amazon too, but pok running dot com
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  Speaker 4: is by far the best place to get it and
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: one of the most recent we re we re published
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: our flagship title. A lot of magicians will remember the
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: accompanying book to the video that Polk made called The
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: Magic of Solomon, And we recently I took a big
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: role in type scenting and contributing to it the the
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: our second edition of the Book of Solomon's Magic, which
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: is now man The lengths I went to for this book.
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: Do you know that lot after the pandemic in Los Angeles,
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  Speaker 4: basically all bookbinders went out of business. Really, I had
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: to drive. I had to drive to Arizona for this guy.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: So this this is twice as long as the original
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: Book of Solomon's Magic, and it's it's freshly typeset with
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: some with beautiful illustrations. And I took a I don't
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  Speaker 4: know whether I'm I invented this. I probably didn't. Every
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: time I think I invent something, it turns out no,
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: actually someone got there first. But I very specifically made
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: sure that this book was erganomic. And that is to
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: say that you know, when you're in the middle of
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: like using one of these things, you don't have to
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: like take a breath and turn the page to see
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: the rest of it. Like the whole like each little
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: ritual is or whatever it is, is on its own page,
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: or at least on facing pages in this instance. So
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: this is again as you can see, this is his work.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: We've gone into a great deal of detail. One of
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: the things that I was didn't mean to add to
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: this myself. And Frada Solomon Mike Johnson is wonderful. He's
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  Speaker 4: been with the Ota for thirty years. It's basically been
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  Speaker 4: his whole his whole adult life. He's he's he's, he's
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: o g man where I worked with him and we
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: actually investigated every single one of the Goysia spirits their
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: origins and as much as they can be investigated, and
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: that often sometimes involved a lot of etymological excavation. He
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: lovingly called it astral archaeology. I think that's a fun
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  Speaker 4: term and basically discovered because originally a lot of people
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  Speaker 4: well know that Astoroth is the corruption of Astarte and
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: Bayiel is the corruption of Baal, specifically Baaladad. But a
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: lot of the other spirits in the Goisha are actually
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  Speaker 4: very connectable to ancient gods, many of them from Bleth,
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  Speaker 4: especially pam On Andrew Malius. A lot of these spirits
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  Speaker 4: are directly connectible to other and if you want to
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  Speaker 4: learn about who we connected it to by what means grit,
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  Speaker 4: you get yourself a of this book as big ass
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: doorstopper gridmas Go. It's actually pretty cheap. Pope likes to
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: just get his content out there. It's I think it's
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: eighty five bucks on his web store. And if you
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: buy it. I also glue little nice gold corners on.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: I didn't do this because I got lazy for my
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: own but I I personally glue beautiful little brass corners
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: on there so you can have quite the display piece
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: for your library. So there you go. I've said my
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: my spiel, I have I have sold, I have pedaled
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: my wares.
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: I like it. Oh that's great, man. A lot of
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: stuff right there that hopefully maybe we'll even bring up
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: as we get into the show. Please do Yeah, but
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: normally just to uh, you know, to get an idea,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Like I asked, all, I guess they come on. When
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: was it that you I realized that you're into the occult.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: This is something you're going to get into, magic, witchcraft,
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: whatever you call it.
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: This is a very good question because it's actually the
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  Speaker 4: question I always ask anyone who wants to be initiated,
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: I ask them why do you want to be It's
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: just sort of more just a why, like why do
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  Speaker 4: you want to be invested in the occult? Why do
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: you want to do it? And I actually, as I've said,
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: I really only have one answer that I kind of
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, everyone it can be answered in a bunch
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  Speaker 4: of different ways, but for me, I feel like there's
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  Speaker 4: only one true answer, and that answer is I couldn't
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: not do it. I have to do it. This is
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: it's like, it's intrinsic part of me. If you locked
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: me in a solitary confinement cell, I would still scribble
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: on the walls. I would still try to meditate and
• 10:39
  Speaker 4: get beyond it. It's a it is a it's calling.
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: It's something that is I think for a lot of people,
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: it's it's like a it's part of the our intrinsic,
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  Speaker 4: part of our soul. And for me that was always
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  Speaker 4: the case. I mean, the story that I tell, true
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: story from my perspective, is I made contact with my HGA,
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  Speaker 4: my Holy Guardian Angel, when I was about three years
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  Speaker 4: old in a moment of terror, and I remember it
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  Speaker 4: very clearly. I mean, we don't usually have great memories
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: of being about three, but I remember very clearly lying
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: in an extraordinarily hot Australian summer bed, trying not trying
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: to sleep in the excessive heat, and being particularly you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: an infant of sorts, a little toddler. I could hear
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: a thumping noise and like giant crashing noises, and I
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: thought it was In my mind, I thought it was
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: a giant coming to eat me, of course, and the
• 11:58
  Speaker 4: steps got louder and louder and louder and louder, until
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: my little peak of thinking this is it's on me
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  Speaker 4: it kind of broke, and I heard a voice inside
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: my own mind saying it's your ear. It's your heartbeat,
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: you fool, get off your ear. It's just your own heartbeat.
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  Speaker 4: And then I was like, oh, I realized I could
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: fold my ear over and I could summon the giant,
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: or I could banish the giant by just folding my
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: ear over. And I was playing with this for about
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: thirty seconds to a minute, and the voice came back
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: and it said, you are going to die, though, but
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: don't worry. I'm here to talk you through it. And
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: ever since then, whenever I need counsel. Throughout my entire life,
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: all I've really had to do is look at my
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  Speaker 4: own face in the mirror, and I was more looking
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  Speaker 4: at that other, my holy guardian angel, and I could
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  Speaker 4: always discuss and in the right state, it could tell
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: me things that I didn't know, you know, things that
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: wisdom well beyond whatever I intellectually had. And for me,
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: that's many reasons why I resonated so much with Poke's
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: magic is mirror magic, because to me, that's I've done
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: that throughout my whole life. That's what I've always done.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: It took me a while to figure out that the
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: dark mirror scrying in that fashion was basically exactly the
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: same thing as what I had been doing throughout my
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: entire life. And so I think there's every person who
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: gets into this needs to remember that your journey is
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: going to be different from everyone else's journey. And if
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: someone tells you various road it tries to give you
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: a specific road map that's unique to them, you're going
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: to be looking at the wrong signs. About eighty percent
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: of every things that work for other people will only
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: work for you about twenty percent of the time, and
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: about twenty percent of the things that work for other
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: people will work for you about eighty percent of time,
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: so called the perido principle, and it's just a strange
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: law of reality. And so for me, I have always
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: been invested in mysticism, magic and the other world. To me,
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: it is the air I breathe. Basically since before I
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: could really form memories. One of my first memories is
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: basically making contact with my Holy Guardian Angel, which I
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: now know to be the case because I've done our
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: Holy Guardian Angel Retreat. Now third degree inside the OTA
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: is the Holy Guardian Angel Retreat, where we have a
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: kind of a intensified but truncated version of the of
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: a Holy Guardian age of ritual. I'd say it's like
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: the Admiral Melon, right, but that's that's specific. That's a
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: specific Holy Guardian Angel of tradition, like like the liber
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: SeMet with Crowley's work, which is itself, I think a
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: truncated version, and there's you know, there's there's a lot
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: of different but this is this is probably one of
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: the best things the OTA has. Everyone that's gone through
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: the third Degree, which is like an intense weekend of
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: constant solitary, magical work sleepless just ritual after ritual after
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: ritual after ritual after ritual after ritual. Who comes out
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: of that says their life is completely changed. It's just
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: everything has gotten better. It's a it's incredible.
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  Speaker 3: So that's a wild story, man.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like there's a lot there.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like there's a lot there, from like
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: this idea of being able to tap into your holy
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Guardian angel and do you and then to the magic. Okay,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna one thing at a time here to to
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: like this this mirror magic. Right, so I have my
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: own understanding of thoughts about what that means and what
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: mirror what the magical mirror. So there's a difference, right,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: mirror magic and the magical mirror in magic and the
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: occultism and esotericism. But then going back to the idea
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: of like tap like, talk to me about what that
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: is like or what that what how that relates to,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: you know, tapping into it at a young age, your
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: holy guardian Angel into Now, one of the first things
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: you talked about with Pokeron in his work is mirror magic.
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: I I want to know what you think about those
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  Speaker 5: two together.
• 16:53
  Speaker 4: Well, every there are many different ways to you can say,
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: interact with the other world, so to speak. Mirror magic,
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: I find is especially we use it quite heavily, obviously,
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: and I find it to be it's it's direct, it
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: it's an you're not gonna say easy, but I would
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: say it is a straightforward interface with your own subconscious
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: in a way that say, twisting incense smoke is not.
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: I remember I think I was reading something by another magician.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: I can't remember exactly who it was, probably for the Best,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: who was saying something like that they would conjure, like
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: when they did go Issia, they would conjure spirits into
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: the space, and they would continue to conjure them into
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: the space around them, into the temple space, and eventually
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: you'll get poltergeist activity. But that's part of the that's
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: a say, a common issue.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like I saw that in a reel the
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: other day by somebody.
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: Anyway, Yeah, and we have never.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: Had that problem. We don't summon spirits into the three
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: dimensional space, we don't trap them in an area they dislike.
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: We talk to them through what is essentially a communication medium.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: It's the mirror allows us to have that state of
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: mind to communicate and see phenomena without having them be
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: forced into a physical space and to show sign, blow
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: out a candle, prove that you're here, make the lights
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: flicker or something. It's like, well, the image is changing
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: on the mirror. I can see it right now, I
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: can feel them, the pressure change. I can feel this.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: I can I can I can see what's going on.
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: And we did a Goetia operation the other night with
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: a whole bunch of different people who was really cool,
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: just having people one at a time sitting in front
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: of the mirror, reinvesting themselves and gaining that wonderful And
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: it's strange how universal the despite the differences in specifics,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: the universalness of the feeling, the energy of what's coming through.
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: It's very profound. Obviously, there are magic mirrors have been
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: used for a considerable period of time. Doctor John Dee
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: has one, I think in the I can't remember Berdellian
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: Library or something like that. We have a picture of
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: it actually in the Book of New Book of Solomon's Magic.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: And whether he used it or not, we can't tell.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: But it was probably supposedly that is actually a myth,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and it comes out that is only his shoestone. So
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend and I did a three part series and
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: then the last one we did it with Nick about
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: magic mirror is inistly enough because it's just fascinating that
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: you bring that one up right away, because it fascinates
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: me that our phones are like magic mirrors, you know
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: what I mean, fat blacks frying, you know, it's.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: They cannot be used that they can be used. Thusly,
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: one of the things that really really pushed me is
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: certain breathing methods are particularly powerful. I mean, my favorite,
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: it's not part of our program, but my personal favorite
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: is the whim off breathing method. I like to it.
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: When your oxygen level dips to a certain point, your
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: brain actually produces DMT. It has to dip down to
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: about sixty five sixty percent, and if you're doing a
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: lot of that breathing method, it gets down there. And
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: I found that you can when you do like dark
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: mirror scrying in combination with some of these breathing methods.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: I found that that was for me. It was an
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: incredible thing. I was but I noticed it by accident
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: because I was doing the breathing method in front of
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: my computer screen and it turned itself off. Obviously, I've
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: been doing the breathing for some time, and the lights
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: were somewhat dim, and again the same phenomena. I look
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: at my and I could see my face changing. As
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: as I was looking in my my the breathing, the
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: oxygen was changing, and it was I was like, whoa,
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: that's because I was like, wow, that is that is
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: not my face. That's a far more handsome face evidently
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: one of my ancestors or something like that, and it was,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: it was, it was wonderful. It's a wonderful thing. And
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: we do have breathing methods in our work and we
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: like it's a fire breath, it's like this, the circular
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: box breathing. A lot of people who've never actually encountered
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: breathing methods, they I've I've done classes on breathing methods
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: like this, and I've had people come to me afterwards
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: and say, oh man, that that just that that box
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: breathing and I breathe in for six, hold for six,
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: out for six, hold for six. You know, they they
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: say that changed everything. My stress levels have gone down.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I sleep much better. And I'm like, it's kind of
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: like of a one breathing technique, but if it helps
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: you there, I mean there is. You could write an
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: entire I've sometimes thought about it, but best left for
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: someone better than me. You could write an entire grimoire
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: that is all about how breath work can change your mind,
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: your perceptions and your body.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's already there. It's called raja yoga. It's it's
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: a it's pranayama breathing. And so even in Crawley's Eight
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Limbs of Yoga Yoga for Ya Hooligan's right, that essay,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: that Crowley Road, he talks about how pranayama is your
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: what is it you have? You know, your knieyama, your yama,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: your arsenal, and then breath work proanayama is what helps
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: you get into your daryana's your dayanas and then.
• 22:46
  Speaker 5: To the samadhi state. So you're you're hitting it right
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: on the knob there.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Huh, Well, there's there are only like the relationship between
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: the body, or you could say the inner child or
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: the basic self or whatever language you want to want
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: to clothe it in. And the mind has been described
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: as I think it was like Sam Harris or someone
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: described it as an elephant and its rider. I like
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: a more cosmic image it's like the dark, deep ocean
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: and just someone floating on the surface of it. But
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: I think the elephant analogy is probably more approachable in
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: that when you're having a good day, you can guide
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: the elephant where you want it to go. But when
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: you're having a bad day, the elephant takes you for
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: a ride. It's the nature of addiction and things like that,
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: as in, if the elephant is addicted to something, as
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: nothing the rider can do about it. I mean, it
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: takes a lot, takes a lot. But there's a few
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: languages just just thinking and intentions don't really communicate things
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: terribly well to the deeper self. There are, however, a
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: couple of languages that do. There are three languages that
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: allow you to communicate. One of them is breath. Breath
• 24:00
  Speaker 4: is a direct language between your conscious mind and your body.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: The second one is visualization, actual mental internal visualization. I mean,
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: you've heard stories of people who, like apocryphal or not,
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: will be like it in pow camps and Vietnam never
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: played a game of golf in their life. They imagine
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: playing golf for just to you know, try to get
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: through the experience, and when they come back home they
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: got an a game.
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: It's like what.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: The mind is capable of communicating with the body in
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: ways through imagination. It's these visualization techniques are often used
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: as like to guide energy or whatever, but it's like
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: whatever it is that they're guiding, they are guiding the
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: body very well. And the third, the third method is ritual.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: And that doesn't necessarily mean magical ritual. That means ritual.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: That means setting up a series of spaces that you
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: have to go through. When you go through that space,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: you're different at the end. Like I usually use gym
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: working out, I mean you set a series of tasks
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: for yourself. I mean a gym is it has its
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: own sites, its own smells. It's I wouldn't I hesitate
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: to use the word of fragrance, but a gym has
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: so scent.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: I've even said before not to interrupt, but even designing
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: your workout, I mean, how different is that is coming
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: up with a schedul or tellism.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: Well, once I heard once as someone who I wish
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: I could remember the name, suggested that in order to
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: change your life, if you have a difficulty doing so,
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: one of the best things to do is to make
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: small structural changes that that kind of they it doesn't
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: rely on your whimsy or your will at that stage.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: It's like you if you keep forgetting your keys, you know,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: putting them somewhere where you will see them right before
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: you leave, or something like that. It's little structural things
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: that you do throughout your day to ritually guide yourself,
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: and you feel more confident all of a sudden. But
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: you've you've basically, you've you've mentally placed a series of
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: hurdles that your body will go through. You've planned in advance,
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: and by doing so, you will the body will jump
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: over those hurdles and be forced to change. And those
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: are the those are the three languages that you can
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: communicate with your with your body, so to speak, at
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: least to my reckoning.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: I thought that was great, all that stuff you just
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: said right there. I think very interesting stuff. A lot
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: of it. I think all goes back to, you know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: a lot of things that me and even Magis have
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: been kind of talking about lately, especially with your nervous
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: system and you know, and all that, even the breathing.
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: Not to a selfish plug for myself, but I did
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: put out a show, you know, on breathing the mechanics
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: of magic, you know, breathing as a threshold, and I
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: covered some interesting stuff that is even had like scientific
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: experiments on where it's like, you know, you you change
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: your body temperature, you do all sorts of stuff with
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: the breathing teches.
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, don't don't do that when you're driving a car,
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: I make that mistake or do I was on the
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: backstreet or do no.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Well, that's one of the first I mean, so one
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: of the first things I teach my students and ti chi.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: You know, chigung breath is integrated into all of those things.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: You actually, unless you learn how to control your breathing,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: everything else actually almost doesn't matter. And that's an extreme
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of an extreme guy, so that's an extreme
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: thing to say, but it's it's so true. Every teacher
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: I've had that has tried to that, you know, he's like,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: it's almost a given in Chinese martial arts and Chinese
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: breath works, Buddhism, in all these different things that Daoism,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: the breath is integrated into all of it because it
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: controls the production of chiging into shen to grow spirit.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And so it's such an interesting thing that then it's
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: one of the main.
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: Basis is for the aa crall these work.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: And then you know, integrating the Eastern mysticism with the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Western magic.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean the a lot of that Eastern mysticism
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: and its Initially when you start getting into researching like
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: the history of Western the Western tradition, you think that
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: maybe the Eastern material is a is included as has
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: been shoehorned in. It's not entirely true. It's actually, I
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: think far more true to say that the Western tradition
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: going back to very longly had all of that stuff.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: It did have all of that stuff, and it was
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: in a sense lost over a long period of time
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: for sure. For instance, one of the things I am
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: although in the Ota we are very heavily we are
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: Canaanite based in our mythos, and for good reason.
• 29:12
  Speaker 5: That what does that mean?
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Just some people know because I have an idea, but yeah,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: let people know what like being Canaanite means in this
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: In this well, the.
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: Canaan Nite mythos specifically, like the mid to late Bronze
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: Age Canaanite mythos is I find one of the most
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: advantageous eggregors for a magician, and I specifically say that
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: because in the Western tradition, it's kind of at the
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: heart of the entire Western tradition. So what we're talking
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: about at the end of the Bronze Age is the
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: the Phoenician Canaanite tradition merged on very heavily with the
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: Egyptian tradition because they were frenemies for a very long
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: period of time. They invaded each other over and over again,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: and the people regularly adopted each other's cultures and then purified,
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: and then adopted and then purified. And they are also
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: mixed heavily with the Mesopotamian legends. So some of the
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: most ancient traditions overall get filtered through the Phoenician and
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: kana tradition. And because they were such defeat sailors and
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: tradesmen all throughout the agn down to the west coast
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: of Africa and all the way up to England, and
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: then going forward through the Biblical traditions as well, we
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: find that it's essentially the beating heart of Western mystery
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: magical traditions overall. A lot of people would like to
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: say that the Egyptian tradition is that way, but actually
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: the Egyptian tradition, which is very very near and did
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: to me. I heavily research into ancient Egypt. I adore
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: it greatly. A lot of my researchers has delved into that.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: But the Egyptian tradition is a bit of a cul
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: de sac. Why because every ancient tradition, every god derives
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: from the peoples of that region's relationship with the local environment.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: And for Egypt that's the Nile, that's where life, food
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: generation comes from. But for the most of the rest
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: of the world, that's rain, which is why the chief
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: gods are Thunder, God's lightning, God's reign gods. They bring
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: the rain and bah A la Dad or the various
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: other bals. They are actually a lot of bals. Every
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: city had its own baal, and some of them are
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: very different. Eshmun is an odd bal that a lot
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: of people like to overlook, is actually a god of healing.
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: But we have Bahal Adad is the classic enemy of Yahweh,
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: whatever you believe of all of that. But it's also
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: they're basically almost the same god. They competed in a
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: sense to be like, no, actually we're not the god,
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: but they're both storm thunder gods about rain, generation, lightning, strength, life,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: and the Canaanite tradition is at the beating heart of
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: all Western tradition for that reason, and it is inclusive
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: through its trade roots with and its mythology with basically
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: everywhere else, especially after we're getting into the way it
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: syncretizes with the Greek and the Roman traditions. Again, if
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: you try to syncretize things with the Egyptian tradition, it
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: gets kind of hmm, kinda, sorta a guess. But when
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: it comes to the classic archetypes of the Supreme Father God,
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: the Supreme Mother Goddess, the God hero of lightning and rain,
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: and then the Goddess of generation and life and growth
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: and nurturing, the God of smithing, the God of Christ,
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: and these are like major archetypes. Almost these are Western
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: human archetypes. I would I would hesitate to say that
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: they are universally human, because I don't know whether I
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: can make that kind of judgment. But from a Western tradition,
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: these are very much the roots of a lot of
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: our religious archetypeal thought, and so it allows us to
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: essentially adopt almost any school of Western magic and fold
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: it into our tradition if we wish to, because we
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: are at the heart of it, and so there's nothing
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: is really excluded in the Western tradition, and so it's
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: important to have that as the core of what we're doing.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: That makes sense, thank you.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So what are we going on? What we're actually
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: talking about before we explain.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: This before I rambled on, well, he was talking about
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: the three different brand and breath being one of those things, right,
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Oh yes, and then that leading into the idea of
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: the Canaanite tradition being the heart of your tradition and this.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: Break of the breath from then you know why it
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: went away and how it leads into what pokaroni and
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: what the ota is doing.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Well, as I say, breath work, that especially the fire
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: breath is one that we use before ritual quite regularly,
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: and it's it's like a way of raising that internal
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: energy and that internal temperature. So that's yeah, that is
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: absolutely one of the methods that we use. I've experimented
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: a great deal with other and we all have other
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: breathing methods and things like that. It's it's it's it's
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: incredible feeling how they actually alter the mind and altered
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: the body as you as you go through and as
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: I say, you know, it's there's a breathing method for
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: just about anything. Science itself is sort of catching up
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: with that right now, with things like, you know, if
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: you if you modulate your heart rate, for instance, if
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: you can modulate your heart rate just a little bit,
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: you're ill power improves. It's a strange there was a
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: strange son of study. But if you just if you
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: stop yourself and breathe in for ten and out for
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: ten and do that a couple of times, you'll suddenly
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: find a boost to your own willpower. It's like the
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: brain has a slight reset. Cravings start to vanish away,
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: Just little tiny breathing cantrips, so to speak, like that
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: can just alter the way you navigate through life. And
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: science itself is proving a whole bunch of other fascinating
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: things about ritual practice. I know that here in La
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: there was a study with a magnetoception, the human's ability
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: to feel the magnetic the electromagnetic sphere of the earth,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: like the field of the Earth, and what that does
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: to us. I think they were initially studying cows in
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: this idea that they always face north south when they sleep,
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: and certainly birds are able to navigate themselves flying around,
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: flying north or south for the winter, except so to speak.
• 36:02
  Speaker 4: But in LA, this research was they were seeing what,
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: if any effect, the Earth's electromagnetic field would have, and
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: they discovered, I need to be proof checked on this guy,
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: but they would first isolate the person in like a
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: giant Faraday cage, and then they would subject them to
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: a equivalent Earth's electromagnetic field. And as they sat there
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: and turned it, they discovered that if they turned it
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: in one direction, and I believe that was I believe
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: that was clock wise. No, I believe that was anti clockwise.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: I think when they turned the electromagnetic field anti clockwise
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: they did nothing. Well, when they turned it in the
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: other direction, it induced an alpha state. And what's fascinating
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: about that is, well, we do circumambulation. Certainly, when you
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: circummambulate around a circle, you are doing exactly the same
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: thing with Earth's electromagnetics field. Are inducing an alpha state
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: through this mechanism that the ancients obviously experimentally knew about.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: But science is catching up to what it exactly does
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: and how it doesn't the effect it's magic.
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: M This is really interesting you're saying this stuff. Do
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: you think a lot of the stuff that is used
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: in rituals is actually because you know, you mentioned the mirror,
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: you mentioned breathing. I've even covered the mirror about you know,
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: paradolia and all that stuff of how it starts affecting
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: your brain and this and that, you know, even how
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: you know and even you you know stuff with your eyes,
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: you know, your whole nervous system. There's there's a lot
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: of things that you're mentioning that all seem to kind
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: of affect your nervous system. Is that something you think
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: is actually being done? I mean, because you're talking about
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: science now too. I notice you're getting into science and
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: looking into studies. Do you think a lot of stuff
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: is actually attacking the practitioners a nervous system in a sense,
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: or affecting it more than people probably realize when they're
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: doing these practices.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Well, I think that every time I think about this
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: sort of subject, I'm reminded of a quote by Paracelsus,
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: and that was physical cures for physical ailments, magical cures
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: for magical ailments. It sounds like a quip like dismissal
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: but I I think that the physical body, if you
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: look for a physical reason for something to occur, you
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: will find it eventually. But that doesn't mean there's not
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: more going on. I mean reality itself, the physical world
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: that we experience right now, isn't reality. That was another
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: study that happened here in the Los Ange Greater Los
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: Angeles region, and that was I do. He went on,
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: Joe Rogan, and I wish I could remember his name.
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: But the scientist in question was running an experiment in
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: the like evolutionary perception like. He was trying to figure
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: out just how much of reality do organisms see on
• 39:07
  Speaker 4: a day to day basis, you know what, because obviously,
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: if you can see things the way they are, surely
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: that's advantageous to survival. You know, you'd think that it's
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: advantageous to survival to see what's going on, to perceive
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: reality in some fashion, And he wanted to see exactly
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: how much of reality organisms saw. At the end of
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: his study, which I suggest you go and find rather
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: than just take my word for it, he discovered that
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: nothing an animal that perceives reality as it is always
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: loses the game of survival against animals that perceive only
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: an interface that permits them the quickest and easiest way
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: to procreate. In other words, we don't see any reality.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: We just see a illusion, a projection, an interface that
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: allows us to it's basically here. He thinks of it
• 40:13
  Speaker 4: as like the icons on a desktop. The icons on
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: the desktop could be a reality, but there's more behind that.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: It's much deeper, and the workings of that is inconceivable
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: to the icons themselves. That, to me is when we're
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: looking at the mix of science and magic, and magic
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: is what we as limited organisms might call the greater
• 40:42
  Speaker 4: reality of things, whereas what we experience of it as
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: icons on the desktop of the cosmos is passing strange
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: and explainable. Like many talisman we've all made talismans, and
• 41:01
  Speaker 4: we've seen their positive effects. Almost always, those positive effects
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: happen in a way that you could think, oh, well,
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: that kind of the circumstances lined up in a way
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: that it's kind of explainable anyway, and it's like, yeah, sure,
• 41:16
  Speaker 4: but it still happened, didn't it still worked? Maybe it's
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: like the classic story I do remember. I think it
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: was a magician rufus Opus who said he did a
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: few people have stories like this. He said that he
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: did a money magic spell for a specific amount of money,
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: and shortly afterwards his home burned down and he got
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: the insurance payment, which was exactly the amount of money
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: he asked for. It's careful what you wish for kind
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: of thing. But that's like the quickest and easiest way
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: for reality to actually give him exactly what he want
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: wasn't to have some have some airborne drug dealer throw
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: some cash out of the window in fleeing from the
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: police and he just happened to find a bag of cash.
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: The easiest way was his house burned down and he
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: got the insurance payment. That's the quickest and easiest way.
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: And reality almost always takes the swiftest and easiest route
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: from point A to point B. So that's why you
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: have to be careful what you wish for.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: That's exactly that's the old the Latins Cave, Robin Jenie's lamp.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: Eh, Hey, the Genie's just doing what she's asked to do,
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: man like. So you got complained.
• 42:30
  Speaker 9: So yeah, but when it comes to perception, because I
• 42:35
  Speaker 9: know you brought up again the black mirror and the
• 42:38
  Speaker 9: science behind specifically what that is, so like.
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: For instance, in Our American Magic, the documentary that we
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: the docuseries, four part docuseries that we produced, the final
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: episode goes over and explains a little bit more the
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: idea of the mirror magic methods. It uses something very
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: specific called the Troxler effect. And the Troxlar effect is basically,
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: if you look at anything, especially in a low light setting,
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: it mostly mostly happens there. Now we've all experimented this,
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: probably as kids looking up at the ceiling and you
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: look long enough at the detail in the ceiling and
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: it disappears, it starts to fade out. It's because the
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: rods and cones in the eyes get tired, they lose
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: their little atp the little energy, they fade out, they
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: stop functioning, and the brain fills in the gaps. We
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: actually have a blind spot in our eyes that you're
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: probably all aware of. That is where the optic nerve
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: folds back over and goes to the brain. And because
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: it does, we have blind spots permanently in our eyes
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: that the brain fills in the details. It basically ai
• 43:55
  Speaker 4: generates a bunch of noise that you could believe is real.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: So when you do the Troxlar effect and it has
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: been studied again scientifically a lot, usually with poor college
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: students sitting opposite each other. So this can just be
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: done looking at another person's face. So with this specific effect,
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: you sit in low light conditions and you stare at
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: your own face in a black mirror, or you stare
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: at someone else's face. After a while, the rods and
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: cones start to have a difficult time, They get tired,
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: and after a while, your face, the face you'll see,
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: blurs to like a blank nothing if you blink really
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: hard and you shake your eyes and go away. But
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: if you stay in that smadi state, if you stay
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: looking at it for a while, the rods and cones
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: will start to become exhausted and the face will fade away,
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: and then another face will start to reappear. And this
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: is a wonderful screw trying divinatory method to conjure up
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: spirits to visible appearance in the dark mirror. And it
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: terrified a lot of these college students who were looking
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: at their colleagues' faces from a few feet away and
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: all of a sudden like that's a monster. And some
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: of them would really get freaked out and not want
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: to do it. But what's really fascinating is in a
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: lot of the research that I've been doing into very
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: sort of Egyptology incient stuff. What's fascinating is that again
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: we go into this in American magic that the ancient
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: Egyptian astrologers or astronomers, they weren't really different back then.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: They were called horoscopetroscope by the Creeks Greek. They would
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: the way they would view the stars, and we know
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: this from papyri that they had, is they would go
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: up to the rooftop of usually those pylons or other
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: towers that they have. I'd sit on the rooftop and
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: sit north south and they would there'd be two of them,
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: at least one of them would sit in a specific's
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: position and the other one would sit facing them and
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: looking at them. And we know from the papyrus records
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: that they were judging the hours of the night orra scopie,
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: those who view the hours, the hours of the night sky.
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: They would view them by where the stars were positioned
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: in relation to the other person's face. They could have
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: used anything, but they used the other person's face. And
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: we know what happens when you are in a low
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: light condition staring at another person's face for a long
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: period of time, tired, exhausted, late at night, early in.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: The morning, candle.
• 46:57
  Speaker 10: Flickering, candle like incense rising as the stars wheel ahead
• 47:01
  Speaker 10: in the sky at their appointed hours. All of a sudden,
• 47:05
  Speaker 10: their face will change and the deckhand, the spirit of
• 47:09
  Speaker 10: that deckhand, channels through the person sitting opposite. I mean,
• 47:13
  Speaker 10: we have to assume that they used a person's face
• 47:19
  Speaker 10: for a reason. And believe me, if the Egyptians could
• 47:23
  Speaker 10: turn something into a magical or white dimnatory system, they did.
• 47:28
  Speaker 10: I mean, these things have magical, mystical effects, and it's
• 47:33
  Speaker 10: to think they didn't see this effect. This is I think,
• 47:37
  Speaker 10: I think we have to conclude that this is like
• 47:39
  Speaker 10: the origin of celestial necromancy is this effect and what
• 47:45
  Speaker 10: it has on the mind.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: It's, uh, you know, when you brought up the whole
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: staring at it, you back at each other when you're
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: going on before about something. I forgot what it was.
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: It made me think about it, made me think about
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: it and not again, not to you know, plug it,
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: you know, selfish plugs here, but just for even new
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: people that might be listening that I haven't listened to
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: it because it's kind of old now. I did do
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: like a I covered the tracks law effect on the
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: show or just I think it just fucked up the
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: name or whatever, if that's how you said. I did
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: cover that, And during that show when I recorded it,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: I wanted to add but I kind of didn't because
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: sometimes her name can get conspiratorial. But when you brought
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: it up again, it made me remember about Abrima Abramovich Marina. Yes,
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: you long A long time ago. Yeah, probably, I don't know,
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: maybe six to ten years ago. She did some sort
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: of like I don't know if it was considered like
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: some artistic thing, but like she went somewhere and she
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: sat down. I don't know if she sat down just
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: a chair and a table or if it was just
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: two chairs, but she would sit there and then people
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: had the chance to come around and sit there and
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: you could just stare in each other's faces. People thought
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: it was like the weirdest ship. And after I was
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: like doing this show, as I was recording that that
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: series by myself, I was like, Yo, this reminds me
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: of what she was doing. Then, the same fucking thing
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: you have, Like most of those people appbably unwilling participants
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: actually don't even realize what they're doing. They just think
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: it's clod to sterically. Maybe I don't know, that was.
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: Actually probably yeah in the state.
• 49:24
  Speaker 5: Well that works in many ways.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, she's a dark arkon who needs to be
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: defeated to move up to the next boss, which.
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: Is Lady Gaga and jay Z, so the right place.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's still a low level of bosses
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: to get, you know, as we go through.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: No, she trained Ga Gas, shouldn't she still be above her?
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: Well she is, but you know it's like the Sith
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: law too. They got to take.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Down you know, their master. Yeah, but you have a
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: good point, and so you caught me on that one.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: But yeah, there's something there.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I just thought that was really interesting. I was.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: It just reminded me of that because always what that
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: was kind of weird that people I think jay Z
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: even showed up to stare at them.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Of course, I mean that's because that is her students,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: like yeah, jay Z and yeah, Lady Gaga are her students,
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: and of that stuff that they're doing.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very interesting.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: And you can take that into the other way and
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: you know, and I laugh at at it, but it
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: works as them to get into a state of intimacy.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: You can also do that with you know, like just
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: somebody you love or are courting and have unveiling vulnerable moment,
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: which then, since we have mirror neurons, if you keep
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: it in a state of lightness and love and these things,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: you both can start to you know. So it's an
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: interesting like perception is weird, and our nervous systems are
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: even weirder. So there's something there's something to be said
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: about human vulnerable states and what we can witness as
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: we go through them.
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: Well, that that specific, I know is when you stare
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: into each other's eyes, it releases oxytocin. After you do
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: develop that that bond with the other person staring deep
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: into their eyes. I know there's performing arts techniques where
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: you're supposed to raise out of your eyes, so the
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: Santislavski performing arts techniques. Yeah, so absolutely, it's.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting. Even even choreographed stuff I think can
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: start or maybe that's dope, I mean gets released into
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: your system. So I could see how maybe like dancing
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: with somebody and looking into their eyes, you could really
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: start popping it off in your head and not even realizing.
• 51:34
  Speaker 5: Oh, popping shut off other places too.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: No, but you know what I'm saying, Like even guy,
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: I mean just because of the synchronized movement which is
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: going to start to create, you know something, and then
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: staring in the eyes.
• 51:49
  Speaker 4: Knowing a dance and its steps is like limiting. But honestly,
• 51:53
  Speaker 4: it's very relaxing to be able to dance with someone
• 51:56
  Speaker 4: and know the steps already.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: It's good. Yeah, yeah, Eric, or.
• 52:04
  Speaker 8: Yeah I got something. So before we started the stream,
• 52:08
  Speaker 8: we were talking about that like documentary movie that Poke
• 52:11
  Speaker 8: put out, The Magic of Solomon. I've watched I've probably
• 52:15
  Speaker 8: watched that like ten times. And within that movie there's
• 52:20
  Speaker 8: a part where it actually shows the ritual and there's
• 52:25
  Speaker 8: some mirror scrying in the ritual. Now, a lot of people,
• 52:28
  Speaker 8: I think, when they talk about mirror work it's a
• 52:32
  Speaker 8: very solitary.
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: And individual practice.
• 52:35
  Speaker 8: But what is depicted in the documentary is a group
• 52:40
  Speaker 8: ritual where one person is staring into the mirror, there's
• 52:45
  Speaker 8: another person across the ritual space with like the the
• 52:50
  Speaker 8: symbols of whatever spirit is being conjured, and they're working together,
• 52:55
  Speaker 8: and then there is the rest of the group that
• 52:57
  Speaker 8: is like circumambulating and stuff. Like that first of all,
• 53:02
  Speaker 8: because again you know that is a movie. So first
• 53:05
  Speaker 8: of all, how much within the temple is actually done
• 53:10
  Speaker 8: as group work like that involving a mirror?
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: And then when group work is.
• 53:15
  Speaker 8: Done, how much do you think is the responsibility of
• 53:21
  Speaker 8: the scrire and how much is the responsibility of the group.
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: This a very good questions. Actually, in that original documentary,
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: what you were looking at was is damn near what
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: we actually do as you possibly can for a camera
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: being in the space. I was hoping you'd say that
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: when it comes to why, I mean, I think he
• 53:44
  Speaker 4: explains this in that little in the documentary. Classic is
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: that when you have someone just dedicated strying, then they
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: don't have to worry about uttering, lengthy incantation or the like.
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: It's it's tends to be much more effective for them
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: to get into that state and to be able to
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: make that connection. And so it just functions much better
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: for people, especially if they're you can say less, they
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: haven't done as much of it as say like a
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: really veteran magician may have, so that we just lose
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: cardinal electric or is he he'll be right back? Yeah right, okay, Yeah,
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: So that that's that's that's pretty much exactly what we do.
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: When we have a group of people. They the energy
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: of that group of people contributes to the operation. And
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: one of the fascinating things about having a group of
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: people afterwards, when you start to discuss what went down,
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: even when when people don't necessarily voice what's going on,
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: the uniformity of the experience is a kind of evidence
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: and proof in and of itself of the efficacy of
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: what we're doing. It's especially we do al meadel angelic
• 55:20
  Speaker 4: scrying work, and that that's quite fascinating to all sit
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: around and all be scroying on the crystal ball and
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: all receive basically exactly the same message in one form
• 55:34
  Speaker 4: or another in your own words. You get this overwhelming
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: presence of like a download of this of the message
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: that comes through, and in some cases it comes through you,
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: in other cases you get like a whole download and
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: you just kind of r rate what you've received. And
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: then afterwards when we all write it in the log book,
• 55:54
  Speaker 4: the similarities, especially when people can draw and they sketch
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: out what they saw like the similarities. People you hand
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: the book to the other person after sketching, and they're like,
• 56:04
  Speaker 4: that is exactly what I saw. You know, it's the
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: uniformity is incredible, and group work is something that is
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: I think it's it's more powerful in a sense of
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: connecting to kind of know that what you've been through
• 56:23
  Speaker 4: has that potency, that power, that that reality to it
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: that you otherwise would be full of individual doubts on
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: your own, depending on who you are. And I think
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: I personally believe like the energy of the group contributes
• 56:38
  Speaker 4: to the efficacy of the of the ritual itself. I mean,
• 56:43
  Speaker 4: I actually find that in a bunch of other settings
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: as well too, Like when you're training with someone else's
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: physically training with them, I find for some reason, like
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: I myself can push myself harder and further when I'm
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: with that person than by myself. It's like, I don't know,
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: it's just like you become a larger organism with a
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: single united will behind you, and it becomes more powerful.
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: So I hope that answered I hope that answered the question.
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I like that.
• 57:15
  Speaker 8: I like that a lot, And I like your mention
• 57:20
  Speaker 8: of the fact that when you're working with another person,
• 57:23
  Speaker 8: you know, the sum becomes greater than just the two.
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely, did anybody have any questions before I asked
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: ask him anything, Oh, what was it that got you
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: interested in the OTA? Like? What was other things you
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: thought were lacking that that police had?
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: What got me interested in the OTA was the same thing.
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: They got a lot of people interested in the OTA.
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: And that's the original documentary, The Magic of Solivent Video.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: We all stumble upon that at three in the morning
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: searching for random videos on YouTube, come across it, and
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: have a wonderful time listening to Poke give his his
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: grand lecture on the subject. I found that back in
• 58:09
  Speaker 4: like it was like I had a dreadful year of
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: a sort of unknown insomnia, Like there was no reason
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: for it. It came horribly and went away just as mysteriously.
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: But during that year was a great deal of soul
• 58:26
  Speaker 4: searching because you've got nothing else to do. It about
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: five in the morning, and I was just sort of
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: led to really resonate with with Poke's work and the
• 58:36
  Speaker 4: way he and the the OTA overall. I said this,
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: these people like this is this is great. I love this.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: This is exactly kind of what I've been looking for.
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: And so when I was I was born in California,
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: but I was raised in Australia obviously, hence the annoying accent.
• 58:51
  Speaker 4: And I moved back to get to know my father's
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: side of the family because you know, and what while
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: I was here, I was like, isn't this where the
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: OTA is. I should reach out and see if I can,
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: I can join them, and just so it happens, yes,
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: I did. And then I attended one of the one
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: of the seasonal ceremonies we do four bout five of
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: them a year Halloween included the sales, Equinoxies and Halloween,
• 59:17
  Speaker 4: and recently added another one, which is there we have
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: a big feast. It's like a table lodge. It's really cool.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: It's good fun. And and I attended this this seasonal
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: and for me when I when I arrived and I
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: was I was hanging out with it was a big one.
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: I think there was like thirty odd forty odd people there,
• 59:37
  Speaker 4: which is pretty big actually for our seasonal ceremonies. And
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: I remember just listening to the conversations that were taking
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: place as we were all eating afterwards and and fratnizing
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: and stuff. We were chatting, and I could hear all
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: of these conversations and for the first time in my
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: whole life. I found myself wanting to be a part
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: of every single one of the conversation Simultaneously, I'm like, I,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: all of these are great. I don't know which one
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: to choose to be a part of, to talk about, Like,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: let's go to most parties, et cetera. Especially if you
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: have the our kind of mindset, a cult mindset, very
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: rarely do we find someone we will want to lock
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 4: in and have a conversation with because you discuss these
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: things and you want to talk about these things all
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 4: the time, because we are obsessed, for better or worse,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 4: about these these topics. But it was the very first
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: time I had been to a party where I was
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: I felt at home. I felt I had found my tribe,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: is what my mother would say, that I had really
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: found the people who I love and resonate with. And
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: I was like, Yeah, this is this is where I
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: want to be. This this group of people are just
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: and it's it's it's really kind of only gotten better
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: and better, especially in the past few years. We've we've
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 4: really attracted some incredible people. I know, I think you've
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: spoken to Lucy Vaughn. She she's she's a member of ours,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 4: she's she's marvelous. She really is wonderful. We have so
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 4: many wonderful, wonderful people, and like I could see all
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: of their praises endlessly and it's just like, I don't know.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: There are many things I think old occult societies. I've
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: said this for a while, like mystical societies. And in
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: the oldie days, community was a kind of a given you.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 4: You you existed inside of a community, and if you
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: wanted hidden knowledge then you had to sort of petition
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 4: and get in. It's reversed nowadays knowledge knowledge is or
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: at least information, you know, it flows like wine, and
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: we get drunk on it a little too much, I think.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: But community is much harder to find. And I think
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: that being able to have a group of people, whether
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: you're casual, dedicated, or in between, having like a society
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: of people, because I mean, our group is what someone
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: would ice spurs, you could say, colloquially or popularly call
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: a cult because we do all the dressing up in
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 4: costumes and muttering enchantments and all of that stuff. But
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: it couldn't be further from the truth. We are a club,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 4: an eccentric book club with costumes and events and I
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: think that that characterizes us far more accurately. If you
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: want to come or go, you can come and go.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: It's but there are some you know, it's it's once
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: you're an important member of the group, you you're cherished
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 4: forever because it's it's like a special family that you
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 4: can always talk to about your craziest and wildest ideas.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: Nothing too crazy, nothing is too unhinged. You don't need
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: to preface everything you say with saying this might seem crazy.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: But it's like everything we say is crazy. See if
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 4: you can out crazy the next person, that's the real challenge.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: But it's it's it is very much a bomb for
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 4: the soul to be able to resonate with other individuals
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: in a networking capacity and whatever society or whatever group
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: that is, whatever you want to call it, or whoever
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: that group is. I feel it is very important today
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: for mystics, magicians, practitioners to find that tribe that they
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 4: can be themselves in. Finally, you know, I think that's
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: that's perhaps the strongest message of a magical society today
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 4: is is what it brings to you in the sense
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: of meaning personally. Yeah, yeah, to have that connections.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: Good I like that actually sounds sounds inviting. That just
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: sounds better than other places when they advertise themselves.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, what what can any magical society say
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: we have secrets that the other societies don't. I mean,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: who believes that? It's like, really you do, okay? I
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: mean every society, like a mystical society, has secrets. As
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: similarly to Freemasonry. You know, Freemasonry has a bunch of secrets,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: but if you found out what they were, you were
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: you would say, why are they keeping this secret? This
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: is weird?
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: It's about integrity. It's it's not about the secrets them else.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: It's about being able to trust your your brothers and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: sisters to know that they're going to keep these odd
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: things secret because when it push comes to shove, they'll
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: keep what you need secret secret. In the sense of
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 4: being able to confide in each other, We're not talking
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: about crimes. We're talking about being able to resonate and
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: confide in each other. Oh, we've got to comment. What
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 4: is the OTA? That's the Auto Templary Astarts a magical
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: Canaanite society that has been was founded by Carol Polk
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 4: Runyon back in nineteen sixty nine, nineteen seventy and has
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 4: been a continuous operation ever since. So it's over fifty
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 4: years old now and he is still kicking ninety one young.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 4: He's doing pretty good.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: That's what's sad. Did you guys have any have any questions?
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: Did he?
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Was he a part of the OTO and then broke
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: off and did his own ota or am I?
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 5: Because I don't know what's help to fill me in?
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 4: Yes, Actually he he was like everyone back in the
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: seventies and sixties of the OTO, and and he he
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: actually received his own charter. I can't remember exactly he
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 4: actually received them. Yeah, he he. I don't know enough
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 4: about that specific period of time to get into the
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: details of it. I wish I did, But yeah, he
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 4: received a charter to open his own lodge. But he
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 4: he wanted to. He never fully resonated I think with
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: the Crowley eggrigor in a way, and he wanted a
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 4: medium through which to communicate a lot of the work
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 4: that he did and he was doing with the magical
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 4: mirror and the Gutia and things like that, as well
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: as you know, the Almadel and things like that, and
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: he wanted it. Actually the initiatory society element of the
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: ota evolve over time. Originally there was just an initiation
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 4: which was and this is actually pertinent to the research
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 4: I've been doing, so I won't go into the weeds
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 4: too much because it will take a very long time.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 4: But the initial, the first initiation, the only initiation he
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 4: had back in the day, was based on an awesome
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 4: kind of an initiation experience that was written up by
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 4: Paul Christian.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: In the.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: Is it, Oh God, I here I am a brain
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: fart on Sunday afternoon. It's the History and Practice of Magic,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: I think is what it was, the history and practice
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: of magic by poor Christian, And in it he talks
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: about this like descending into the Pyramids. Its called the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: initiation into the Pyramids, where this this person goes in
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: through the pores of the Sphinx and they go down
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 4: into the depths and there's various traps and initiations through fire,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 4: air and water and chanisms, and then in the Grand
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 4: Hall they're given cups and poisons to avoid. It's all
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 4: very marvelous and fantastical. And that thing was actually based
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: on earlier because that was like penned in like eighteen
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 4: sixty and he used that as his initiation to begin with,
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 4: because it's awesome, and then he realized that was based
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: on earlier works, specifically on the seventeen thirty one Life
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: of Sethos, which basically gave it the entire first half
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 4: of that, and then the seventeen seventy Crowded Report, which
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: has been the actual main focus of my work, which
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: is a kind of a paramasonic system of in the
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: time where it was like the wild West of Freemasonry
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 4: when everyone and their grandma had to have their own
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 4: Masonic free Masonic rite, and these guys made actually very
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: popular for a period of time, right seven degree system,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 4: and then Polk adopted that seven degree system going forward
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: for for the OTA, and so we have the seven
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: degrees of Crawda Rapola that we utilize for the OTA.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: And my research has led me to believe that for
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 4: some reason, the guys who wrote the Crewda Rapoe did
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: a way better job than people realize. I hesitate to
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: say that it's legit, because I mean, it's a seventeen
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: hundred attempt to recreate the Egyptian mysteries, and there's no
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: reason they should have been able to do that, But
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: they did their homework in ways that beggar belief when
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: you really scrutinize it. So, and that's actually something I've
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: been working on right now. I'm going to be giving
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: a lecture on that soon with Sacramento Lodge via Zoom,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 4: which is going to be fascinating. And preparing that thing.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: I did actually a three ass hour lecture on that.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: While I didn't mean it. I didn't mean to make
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 4: it three hours. Poor people asses must have been would
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: by the end of that. But yeah, it's it is
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: an incredible subject. Most people have dismissed the Crowd of
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 4: Rapport as being like Enlightenment bullshit.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: But.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: It's not. It's really good. It's really well done, and
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: it deserves to be recognized as perhaps one of the
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: greatest reconstructions of the Egyptian mysteries that has ever been attempted.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: It's just that it looks like it was attempted by
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 4: someone who was a little over the limit at the time,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: So it kind of passes by because it has a
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: bunch of insertions in it that look very like, oh,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 4: that's Enlightenment masonry. But you know, actually underneath it is
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 4: a skeleton that is legit So very cool.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: That's interesting. I didn't know. Uh well, maybe I forgot
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: that he wasn't that he was in the So he
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: was in the OTO for a bit himself.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes, oh yes, I mean again, they all were.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: He's got a huge collection of Crowley books. He's quite
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 4: quite the officianado and he's very facile with the history
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: of Crowley and Regatti and the Golden Door and going
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: all the way back to the early twentieth century. So
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: it's a yeah, it's yeah, that's.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: Uh you has he said himself. I found it very
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: interesting how you said this, because, like for myself, I
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: could see that kind of being one of the reasons
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: why I left the OTO was the Crowley eggregor because
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: I I feel like the idea behind Crawley in my
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: experience in the OTO, I don't know how to explain it.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 3: I think the public, first off, has already constructed an
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: idea about the man that probably isn't even correct. So
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: you have that, and then I think you have the
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: idea from the members of what they have heard from
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 3: the public. And you know, sometimes maybe if you want
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 3: to kind of be like an edge lord, you might
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 3: want to go there to maybe for the negative aspects
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: of his personality if they're even true, or you could
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: be going because you actually think the guy had something,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: you know, magically to talk about. But I do think
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: like what you're like, for me, I feel like the
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: whole idea of him and just that whole thing doesn't
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: even match what I think he was even trying to
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: do anymore. Like I think it's become like kind of
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: a false eggregorn itself. So I don't know if like
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: that's how he looked at it, but you know, the
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: way you said that, I was just like, wow, that's
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: really interesting because I just felt like there was just
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: something like it doesn't represent what it was intended to
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: I think anymore. And I think that is becoming like
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: a relationship with the public and the students in parpaganda ignorance,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: you know, mixed in.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 4: Well. I find that certain chapters of the OTO could
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 4: very easily seemingly for someone who's never been an OTO member.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: And I know some wonderful OTO people.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: Oh you know, so do why?
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 4: I just yeah, I just find it can easily collapse
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 4: into a daddy issues club and uh, which I you know,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 4: it's like a lot of people who I don't know
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: are seeking to use the system too vicariously re empower
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 4: themselves from their own mental issues. I don't know, there's
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: a lot of that going on. I find there are
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 4: a lot of people who kind of wear the magical
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 4: tradition as some kind of skin suit to get back
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 4: at their parents, and I wish they were But it
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 4: is what it is, man, It is what it is.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, it was just interesting how you use it,
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 3: even that phrasing. I was like, Oh, that really nailed
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: it for me, Like you know, that was if. I
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: don't know if you meant it that way, but just
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: for me that that match might.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 4: Mean the Oto predated Crowley. I mean he adopted it
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: and he altered it, but then he puts such an
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 4: indelible stamp of himself upon it that the Oto and
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 4: Crowley are basically synonymous. Their names are basically synonymous. And
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 4: good for him, I suppose. I'm fascinated by his genius
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 4: and his seeming sociopathy. I mean, the man is a
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 4: fascinating individual. I sometimes compare him to count Calliostro of
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: the seventeen hundreds. They're very I think they're rather similar individuals,
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: although I think Crowley is considerably has an added level
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: of genius. I mean, Crowley's work is prolific, and he
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 4: is unquestionably brilliant, whether in the man's personal foibles. Notwithstanding,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 4: his work stands upon its own merit. But again, if
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 4: you I mean, I think the Pope regularly says that
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: he couldn't really support the Book of the Law in
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: a sense the morality, I guess you could s law
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: and and that's fair enough if you don't want to
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: be a part of that kind of morality, that sort
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 4: of because that's that's that's a cornerstone of any any
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: specific paradigm. Is it's it's it's kind of morality. Is
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: how you interact with oat of humans? And and Polk
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: came from more of a classic Western concept. Yeah, I
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 4: don't do what you want, but don't hurt anybody kind
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 4: of thing like that. You know, it's a more more
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: more like the we can read or I don't know,
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: you could say it's actually he dates Wickness movie, you
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: know that that kind of golden rule, silver rule kind
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 4: of concept of just you know, being a good human
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: being to each other. And I think whilst that's not
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 4: I mean, you have like Milo the Kit and Massive Friends,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: really good, easy, He's wonderful and like he's de facto
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: kind of he's not. I don't think he's head of
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: the OTO.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 6: Oh he is.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: Nolan Mile is basically the head of the OTO. He's
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: Because I know I think Grady or whoever it was,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: I can't remember, Well.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: Mercury is dead, but like, yeah, Lan Milo is like
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: there's probably a there's like a group of three writer
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: like a few guys that run run that stuff. I
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: think I completely agree with you Nick when it comes
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: to the Crawley thing.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 5: And the problem is it's the same problem.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: That I think the like the whole was that we're
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: supposed to become our own profits. We're supposed to become
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: our own magician, sovereign magicians. You're not supposed to get
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: on other people's buses. And so once you read through
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: Croley's work and you're actually doing the practices as much
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: as of his own trickster Slash had his own inner charlatan,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: there's something that he was trying to help people. The
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: AA is about creating a profit, you know what I mean.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: It's not about following and now being some like lap
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: dog to some rebellious spirit and that's something that Lawn
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: actually talked to me about. I asked him specifically that
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: question because of all the fella might slash Oto cucks
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: out there that like like that, like I feel like
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: if I'm like, I can't handle it because everybody is
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: is like so.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 5: Politically induced into a world of shadows and narrations.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: That they forget like exactly like what I wrote in
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: my article that I just put out there is that
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: like we and you brought it up already, Maximilian, is
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: that we are layered with perceptual data we are viewing.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: We never view reality as it is. We only view
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: our perceptions of that reality as our nervous system is
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: interacting with the world. And so Crawley specifically adding in
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: the Eastern mysticism to the Golden Dawn's work, whether you
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: want to say he never made it past Adeptus minor
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: and went into the inner order whatever, you know, like
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: his own life could have led him into the inner order,
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: because I do believe life initiates us and the initiation
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: never ended, right, It's like it's one of those things
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: that's like, but what he was doing, and to bring
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: it back to the nervous system, and the breath work
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: is that he integrated the eight limbs of yoga with
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: Raja yoga being the king of all yoga being all like,
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: get a hold of yourself the world and why I
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: think I don't like the Book of the Law, but
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: I will state that it was more of an overarching
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: understanding of what AONs are doing and how we're moving
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: through the age of Osiris into the age of Horus,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: and we can see it all around us. It's like
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: the war conquering child is here to bring the sword
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: to all things. And morality is what nietzsch He's a
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: nietzsche Cruelly's a Nietzschean, and so he's like, God is
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: dead and you killed him. And I don't know if
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 1: you can create your own moral ethical structures, but goddamn it,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: we're gonna try, you know, because you got to rework
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: your metaphysical framework from the ground up. And it's tough
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: when it gets into groups because unless you actually do
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: the work and realize that you're a plebe, all of
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: us are plebes in like king's clothing. And until we
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: realize that you because I believe we.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: Can become sovereign. And so it's such an interesting thing.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: That's like widely forgotten that you got to kill yourself
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: before you can grow.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 4: I think all of my I don't think I've got
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 4: a single royal in my bloodline. I chicked and I'm
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 4: proud to be.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: But you know true, but you do.
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: Actually you're you have the DNA of gods as you're
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: trying to awaken it. You know, like if if your
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: tradition goes back to the King tradition, which actually goes
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: back to the Sumerians and Babylonians pre dating whatever happened
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: younger driest period, we all have the bloodline of the
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: Numa of the not on a Naki or whatever the
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: fuck that means. You know, It's like we all have
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: star magic within us all, you know, and now it's
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: been hijacked through time.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 4: Carl Sagan also said it. We are all of us
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 4: star stuff like this. We are the universe. We are
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 4: the Cosmos knowing itself to know itself. We are the
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 4: way the cosmos knows itself. I think that you make it.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 4: You bring up an excellent point about self monstering, and
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 4: it's another reason why you can say it's like the
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 4: difference between a cult or a club or something like that.
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 4: As a cult, we'll try to tell you how you
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 4: should be, but the thing is as a as any
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 4: kind of a teacher in this regard, it's not for
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: me to tell you precisely how you should approach the material. Ultimately,
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 4: I should say, this is the material that you'll probably
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: be wanting to approach, and here are some ways in
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: which others have done so. But similar to the way
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 4: I said, with like the Parido principle, about eighty percent
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: of the techniques will work for you about twenty percent
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 4: of the time, And twenty percent of the techniques will
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: work for you about eighty percent of the time. You
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: need to figure out which ones those are. I can't
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 4: tell you the goalposts for you to expect. I mean,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: I can talk about my own experience, but even that
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 4: might be perilous because you might be looking for something
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 4: you'll never see because it's what I saw. But you,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 4: every single person is going to have their own unique
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 4: experience and how they move forward and the OTA Ultimately.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 4: The dream Poke's dream was to have the OT be
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 4: like a college of magic, believe it or not, and
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: he wanted to be able to present to people these
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 4: road maps so that pe people can themselves study and
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 4: work through these things and find their way from where
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: they were to where they wished to be magically, personally, spiritually, intellectually.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 4: These are this.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 5: This is.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: Sorry, I think I heard my child. This is the
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: This is the true thing of a teacher is not
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: to tell you how to live, but how to listen
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 4: to and hear, listen to the true teacher that's within you,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: to be able to actually hear that higher self, that
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: holy guardian angel, that other wiser aspect of you, to
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 4: listen to it, to be guided by it, that internal master.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: Because anyone who says I am a master or something
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: like that, and properly says I'm a master, I'm like
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: really of of of what precisely of other people like,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: is like like the only master you should ever I
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: think kneel too, in a sense, is the one that's
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: inside yourself, inside your own mind, and inside your own soul,
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 4: because that's the only one that's ever going to guide
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: you to where you want to go, Like no one
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 4: else is going to be able to take you. You
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 4: have to get there yourself. This is a solitary path.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 4: The path of the magician is a soliditary path, even
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: if you're walking beside people because it is unique to you.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: Are that's really a laptop study too.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 3: Now, I do think that's kind of important to it
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 3: to let people a just for me. There's even certainly
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: I'll just be keep it real. There's even you know,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: a certain content creators sometimes the way they present their stuff.
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: I think it would just be better off if it
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 3: was more of a suggestion. Then it seems like this
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 3: is a definite and the way it has to be
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: all suggestions.
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: I mean, I mean any everything is it's it's all
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 4: just a suggestion. I mean a lot of people might
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: say this is the way you have to do it.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 4: You get into that when you start dealing with things
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: like the Abramelon Ritual where people say you have to
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: do the full eighteen months, and like, really you have
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: to do the whole six months, and it's like, okay,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 4: which one is it. It's like you you have to
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 4: do X, Y and Z to get from It's like
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 4: if you read, for instance, I'm using this as an
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 4: example rather than you know, is you read the Abramelon
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 4: Ritual and the first the first part of the ritual
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 4: is all just prayer, longing desire, and you get what
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 4: you get when you get it. You know, when you
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 4: go through that thing. The sincere petition to divinity is
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 4: the magic itself from you. Sincerity, your sincerity, not not
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 4: the ink on the paper, not the writing, not the
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 4: books or the paraphernalia. You your sincerity, what you want,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 4: what you long for, what you're seeking for. This is
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 4: the core of the of of of it. All the
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 4: magical tools are an externalization of your own internal will.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 4: I mean, you charge something because you give it that
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 4: frame on you could say the astral or in the
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 4: mental realm. You you make a wand a wand by
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 4: making a stick special to you, and by making it
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 4: special to you, it does become something beyond the physical
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 4: that others can feel. Quite frankly sometimes, I'm sure we've
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 4: all had instances where we've picked up or been close
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 4: to a piece a magical implement and you're like, holy crap,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: it feels like it's a heater, like it's radiating energy. Yeah,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 4: these objects used enough, consecrated in the over continuous usage,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 4: they have reality to them beyond the it's absolutely ineffable,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: beyond the effable. It's it's but they're ultimately speaking, how
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 4: you physic how you personally approach the material is the
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 4: true rule of of of the of the tradition. I mean,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: it's it's the heart of chaos magic, Isn't it? Not
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 4: that I'm an advocate of chaos magic per se, Because
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 4: the other thing, of course, is that when these traditions
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 4: have been created over a long period of time, they
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 4: have their own reality, their own aggregor. And you partake
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 4: in that agregor and it is it has its own
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: mechanisms already in place for you to be a part of.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: But in the end, you are the one that's investing
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 4: yourself into it as well. You're the one choosing to
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 4: connect with it and permit it to function to work
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: for you. So that was great.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 3: Did anybody have anything they wanted to ask? Noe Magas
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 3: You ain't got nothing?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I always have something, Yeah, I was. So the
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: next question then would be for yourself is how did, like,
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: why did you practice with anything else before the Ota
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: and polkit running stuff for you like a dabbling into
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: the Golden Dawn stuff for you like you went straight
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: into mirror magic.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 5: So there had to be something maybe before that.
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 4: My personal story is went through sort of very general mysticism,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 4: things like chea work, energy work, astral projection, kind of
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: stuff like that. I one of my favorite mystics before
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 4: this was actually a fellow was Fellow Astra, although he
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 4: was born in England, a guy called Robert Bruce. He
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 4: He's produced an enormous number of really nice manuals on
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 4: on like energy work. It's very similar to oh God,
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 4: another another Sunday brain fart, but it's Robert Bruce's material
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 4: is some of the stuff that I really loved getting into,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: and I still do. Like a lot of internal I
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 4: think it's it's as otherwise referred to as nagong. It's
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 4: like chigong, not with the movements. It's just like internal
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 4: feeling and visual work.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: Well, Chigong is nagung.
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because there's waygong and way done, and nagong
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: way down is the externalized movements of hard kung fu,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: and negong is the internal aspect, and all chigong, tai, Chi,
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: bargua and hina are negung practices.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 4: Understood, Okay, good, good to know, Yes, And I've been
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 4: doing that a lot so not sofa with the terminology.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 4: But Robert Bruce's methods are quite quite quite good. I
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 4: highly recommend his material, which is external obviously to our
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: Ota stuff, but from a personal note, I say his
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: work is good, it's excellent. So I have always done
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 4: occulty ritualistic things. Oddly enough, when I first learned the
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 4: lesser banishing ritual of the Pentagram, which we probably all
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: know by heart, is that I used to do that
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: as a kid. I used to lie in bed and
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: when I was spooked or scared, I would conjure the
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 4: four archangels around my bed. I was Christian at the time,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: and I would have Jesus above and I would have
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: this visualization. It would bring me a great deal of comfort.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 4: I would have to like arter their names, and I would,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: and I was fascinating. Is that actually the history of
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 4: the less abanishing ritual actually ties through Jewish bedtime prayers,
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 4: and so it's I was like, what the hell? Like
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 4: I used to I used to always forget the name
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 4: of the fourth Archgel. It's just I mean, it's r
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 4: a l obviously, and I used to say Uriel, which
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 4: is like the masculine version of that. But I always
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 4: forget that bloody name. I don't know why. Michael Raphael
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 4: gave real easy and then that'll be there terrified think, oh,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 4: what's the name? What's that name? I've I I have
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: always been fascinated by the mystical, and the magical is
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 4: essentially like an externalization of the mystical in many ways.
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 4: And for me just I you see, I just took
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 4: to it like a fish to water. And I mean,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 4: it's what's great about the magical tradition, is it? Not
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 4: only is it is food for the soul so to speak,
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 4: when you when you start really practicing these methods, but
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 4: it keeps the mind busy too endlessly wonder mysteries to
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 4: just continuously investigate. And my favorite pastime now is just
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 4: deep diving into a lot of the law surrounding much
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 4: of these things, and the histories and the where it
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 4: comes from, and the etymology. Etymology itself is its own
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 4: mystical school. When you start getting down into like etymology,
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 4: that's that's its own mystery tradition. You learn a lot
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 4: a lot just investigating etymological connections. So I hope that
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 4: answered your question. But I've just always been drawn to it.
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 4: I've always basically done it in one form or another.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 4: And when it came to the OTA, I just I
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 4: just found that it was. It resonated with everything that
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 4: I wanted and loved and did already in many regards.
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 5: And is that worry? Then you met polk Is when
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 5: you Yes, I.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 4: Met him the very first day I turned up to
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 4: the first seasonal. I can't forget it. He hates me
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 4: telling the story, so I went to but I's it
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 4: was an absolute pleasure to meet him and to He's
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 4: a very down to earth kind of guy, can be
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 4: kind of gruff and we all love it. He's he's yeah,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: he's a no nonsense kind of guy, and it's a
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 4: It was an absolute pleasure, and I've been working very
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 4: closely with him since. Actually, I was dispossessed of my
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 4: own job during the pandemic, as most of us were,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 4: and he actually gave me a job basically being his
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 4: full time assistant doing things like again typesetting books and
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 4: so he had a bunch of projects on his project
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 4: boards that were just kind of sitting there for about
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 4: ten years, because essentially he was the we would say
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 4: content creator for the OTA. And as obviously he started
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 4: to get a bit older, it became much more difficult
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 4: for him to get around and to do things. And
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: so when I turn up and to I offered my
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 4: services to make sure that his concepts, his project board
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 4: would be cleared, his books would get out, and we
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 4: have I think we've done five or six I think titles,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 4: indefinitely inclusive of the American Magic series, which was huge.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 4: Working with director Johnny Royle on that was absolutely it
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 4: was wonderful, insane, crazy, but really good. I highly recommend
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 4: everyone go and check it out on it's on YouTube.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 4: I think you have to pay a couple of bucks,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 4: but it's well worth it and good fun and you
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 4: really get to see very high quality production. And that's
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 4: basically what I've been trying to do is get Pokes
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 4: products and or ideas and turn them into good things
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 4: that people want to buy, like a really nice smith's
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 4: own hardcover doorstopper of a book with a cute little ribbon,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 4: you know. Things like that has been what he's been
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 4: getting me to do. And I've just have a time
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 4: become his, in his own words, his right hand man
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 4: and his deputy, you know so, and I just try
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 4: to keep him, keep him creating, keep him going, keep
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 4: him moving, keep him kicking, jumping in his in his
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 4: pool and having a good time. That's my I try
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 4: to make sure he's he's creating right until he can't
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 4: create anymore. And it's it's absolutely been an honor of
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 4: my life to be able to do that.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 3: So that's a crazy story, man, That's awesome stuff. Definitely
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: an experience, Definitely an experience. You know, it makes me
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: think of like you know, Ronnie Pontiac that I've had
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: on that worked with undermanly people.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 4: Right, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it is, uh the
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 4: I I very much would love to be able to
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 4: put on a resume all of the random shit that
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 4: I've done to just keep the ball rolling from type
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 4: setting a lot of show for But it's like, you know, cleaning,
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 4: organizing facility. I became a producer on the American Magic
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 4: series by sheer dint of doing all of the scud
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 4: work behind the scenes. Like I was just running around
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 4: collecting things, making sure people were where they needed to
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 4: be when they needed to be, because I mean, the
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 4: production crew were not entirely aware of all of the weird,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 4: magical things that we were doing, and the magical team
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 4: we're not aware of all of the things that the
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 4: production crew were doing, but I've done both throughout my life,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 4: so I found myself running in between, and I did
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 4: so much crap that I was slapped with a producer
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 4: credit earned or not, I don't know, but I am.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 4: And I ended up as a producer on the series,
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 4: and it contributed my own content to the series too,
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: because it was stuff that Pok wanted to get out
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: there before. He very much believes get there first. I'm like, okay,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 4: well this is the quick way to publish it, so
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 4: let's do it this way. So and again, that series
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 4: is an expansion on his work, not a replacement for
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 4: his work. This is important that people need to realize
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 4: that the period of time that has a lapse between
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 4: nineteen nineteen twenty twenty is it does not rewrite anything.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 4: It's an expansion on the series on his work. And
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: he's very clear when we started in the project with
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 4: that few cakes. So and he's got a lot of
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 4: other things. If you go to poke Runnion dot com
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 4: and see all of his titles and DVDs, I mean,
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 4: the man is I'm helping him now actually to publish
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 4: a lot of his fiction. A lot of people don't
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 4: realize he's it was a prolific fiction writer in the
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 4: seventies before, and he wrote some wonderful little pulp books thing.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 4: I just helped him typeset and fix up his book
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 4: called Night Jump Cuba. It's a fantasy novel about We're
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 4: not a fantasy novel, sorry, it's a fictional novel that's
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: based on his own experiences in the Special Forces and
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 4: inside knowledge on the Bay of Pigs fiasco. So he's
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 4: got some interesting information on how that all went down
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 4: that's added into that book. And he's got a whole
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 4: bunch of fun books, The Commando x drell Masters, his
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 4: own fantasy series. So he's yeah, a lot of people,
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 4: an incredible artist, I might add, he's got this wonderful
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 4: kind of Golden Age comic book style of artwork that
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 4: I absolutely love and have. I try to colorize a
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: lot of the uncolored versions and get them out on
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 4: our Instagram pages and things like that. And if anyone
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 4: listening is interested in following a lot of our Instagram stuff,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 4: the you can find my specific branch of the OTA
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 4: on Instagram through oh t A is a O t
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 4: A a gripper underscorpper of God. I should know this
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 4: shouldn't I I should have come prepared, but that's that's
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 4: not That's not me, is it. Let's see it's a
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 4: I think it's a gripper. Oh t A. Let's see
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 4: O no O t A Underscore a Gripper. My lodge
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 4: is the Agrippa Lodge in Huntington Beach in Orange, California.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 4: So follow us we do. We do a lot of
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 4: activities there and if anyone is interested in the activities
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 4: of the O t A in person, follow us on
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 4: t A underscore a Gripper on Instagram. Uh, and you
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 4: you'll you'll know about any of the events or places
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 4: that we're going, talks that we're giving, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 4: And that's that's Poke myself and the other members of
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 4: the Order who I always love to put forward. Their
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 4: work is always incredible. So please give us a follow.
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: Awesome? Uh did anybody have anything else? I might wrap
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 3: it up? Maybe around there? So good? Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 4: To get back back to my nine months old, she
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 4: said she's probably terrorizing my wife right now.
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 3: I thought I heard even somebody saying that they was
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 3: doing like fifteen minutes ago too, so I could be right.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 4: That was mine?
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 5: Okay, that's all right.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 4: I plugged in the I plugged in the charge cable.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 4: I got a rinky dig little laptop here that I'm using, uh,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 4: working pretty good for one hundred bucks.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 3: Ok okay, all right.
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 7: Real quick, Max, we do have a request for you
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 7: to provide the website again for you in this.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 4: Runyon dot com. Do you want me to cannot? Should
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 4: I write it in the chat?
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah? Sure, yeah I do that.
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 3: Actually, you know what, write it in the private chat
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 3: because I don't think that well, or you'll have to
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 3: spell it weird because YouTube will not let people type
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 3: oh I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, let's se.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: Hey, hey, shout out to uh tomb Birmingham two one
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: six for the two dollars super chat, right, they shout
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: out to that person.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, and no, I have not known I have any
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: of you read John D's fire Books and Mystery.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 5: I can say I have not.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 4: Ooh, that's a good point. So many occult books today,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 4: like old books from like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen hundreds, whether
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 4: you whether you love them or load them. All of
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 4: these AI tech bros have been uploading and destroying in
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 4: some cases, but uploading all of these ancient books, all
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 4: of these old books because they want all the data,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 4: but their ocr sucks, so you know they don't really
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: even get it. But the all of these old books, grimoires,
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 4: subjects on divine law, these things which would normally languish
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 4: in an obscure library, they're all online. It's amazing. We've
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 4: never been in such an age where if you want
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 4: to do some some like really nice like magical research,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 4: you can transcribe, translate, get these facsimiles from various libraries
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 4: and you can like read. I love it. I'm excited
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 4: about it because.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 11: I've been doing a lot of it where you can
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 11: like reading something that hasn't been like addressed or read
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 11: in like three hundred years from a library somewhere and
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 11: be like, oh, that's fascinating.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's sorry. I'm very excited about that myself.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 4: I agree nerding Out, No, No.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: That's great, that's great. Definitely would like to get you
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 3: on again in the future.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 4: I would love to. We are working on more things.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 4: As I say, A lot of my a lot of
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 4: my research that I'm doing at the moment has been
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 4: into the Egyptian mysteries, specifically through the freemasonry and the
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 4: influence of the Egyptian mysteries on freemasonry. Or rather, actually
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 4: it's more about because there's like a good thousand years
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 4: in between. It's actually between the similarities the masonry and
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 4: Egyptian priestly practice. It's sort of like when you put
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 4: them side by side. It beggars the question which you're
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 4: not allowed to answer. But god, it's fun. God, it's
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 4: fun to point it out. So like as again, I'm
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 4: giving a couple of lectures, one in September next month.
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's open to the public. I'm
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 4: gonna have to ask the guys up at Sacramento Lodge
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 4: whether whether it's open to the public. I think I
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: think it should be. We're not talking about anything terribly secret.
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 4: But in one in January, the one in September I'm
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 4: giving on is the is on the crowd of Rapport
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 4: and how basically it's correct and there's no reason for
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 4: it to be as correct as it is, and it's
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 4: correct even when you think it shouldn't be. And then
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 4: in January I'm giving a talk through the same people
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 4: on basically the similarities between Egyptian temple priestly practice as
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 4: we understand it now thanks to the endless laboring of
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 4: Egyptologists and demodests reconstructing papyri from freaking fragments over the
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 4: past century, and freemasonry, especially Blue Lodge, especially blue Lodge freemasonry,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 4: just how damnably similar they are. And there's no reason
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 4: for it that we can that we can see. So
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 4: it's I won't draw conclusions. I will merely ask the
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 4: questions and give tantalizing parallels. That's my point. But we
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 4: can talk about all of that whenever. I'm always happy
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 4: to come on and shoot the ship whenever you want to.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I would definitely. I would love that, actually,
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: and I really had a great chat with you. I
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 3: really really liked having you on. Definitely, I had a
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: great time.
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 4: Thank you guys.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: Hear yeah, and uh yeah. Before we wrap it up, Julie,
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 3: do you want to remind them body where they can
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 3: find all your amazing stuff.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 7: Again, Thank you Max for our coming, Maximilian for coming on,
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 7: Thank you Nick for having me. It's always great seeing
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 7: Eric and Brandon on the show.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 6: Uh Max, Maximilian, if you well, when you come on,
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 6: I look forward to your research for your discussion on
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 6: the Egyptian parallel with Amazon's that's actually got me in
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 6: tradue for anybody else. For everybody else, you could find
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 6: me on YouTube speaker and x as the Loon, check
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 6: out the Weekly Brunch and keep out for new videos.
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you so much. Hi, thank you for joining.
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 3: I would appreciate when you make it My man, Brandon,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 3: what is going on? Magis's up?
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 6: My man?
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: This is great convo, So wonderful to meet you, Maximilian. Yeah,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: I'm excited for the next time we get to have
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: this lovely chat.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So it is always loon, Eric.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: This is great, the great Cardinal electric Head throwing down
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: the brilliant interviews and conversations so we can all try
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: to help out whatever the hell's going on in this
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: world together. Just everybody knows. What happened today was three
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: Magi Press. The Great Skyler Mathis just opened up a
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: new digital magazine, and both Cardinal Electric Head, Nick of
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: the the Mister Occult Reject himself put in submission and
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: so one of the first articles on there is going
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: to be one of Mick's. I also put it in,
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: and so we both have articles in there. Everyone should
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: go check them out.
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 5: My work The Art of Learning to See. So yeah,
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 5: go read that.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 1: We posted about that Alan Chapman tomorrow at ten am,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: So all of you make sure to hop on YouTube
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: and definitely listen to that three and a half hour conversation.
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 5: We go deep and we go deep hard, because that's
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 5: how we do it magas in the media.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: So subscribe, like share to all of these wonderful people,
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: and again, thank you all.
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 5: Thank you Nick.
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank you, and thanks for yeah, thanks for
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 3: bringing up the whole magazine. We're gonna have to still
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 3: remember that and bringing it up more. I'm bad with advertising,
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 3: but yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here. Yeah, thank you, sir,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: thank you.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely definitely make sure you check out Brandon's article.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 3: I definitely think that's uh, you know, that's a message.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, it could benefit all magicians, you know,
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 3: kind of again becoming the sovereign magician. I think that's
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 3: that's what it's all about. In some points, it's you know,
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 3: part of the end game, you know. So thank you Brandon.
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah, and Eric, my man, what is going on? Sir?
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: Will you please let everybody know what's up with you?
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 8: Nick, Brandon, Judith, it was great to hang out with
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 8: you guys again. And Maximilian. This was such a fascinating conversation.
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 8: I am just looking forward to all the questions I'm
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 8: going to ask you next time we encounter each other there.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 8: So thank you for being here.
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 5: Guys.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 8: If you're watching on YouTube, which I know many of
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 8: you are, wants the show ends, please hop on over
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 8: to my channel at eric Arcadian and just give me
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 8: a quick follow or subscribe over there. That would really
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 8: help me out. Other than that, I will see y'all
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 8: next time.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 3: Awesome. Thank you very much. Eric, I really appreciate you
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 3: coming on man. I always enjoy when you can make
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 3: it in. And again, Max, thank you so much. I
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 3: really thought that was a great conversation. Talked about a
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 3: lot of things. I really love the science aspect that
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 3: you brought up, you know, so I didn't feel a
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 3: two alone on that and uh yeah, yeah, yeah, it
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 3: was just it was a good conversation. I hope to
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 3: get hope to uh you know, kind of go maybe
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 3: down some other rabbit holes with you in the future.
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 4: But I would love to love those rabbit holes less
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 4: sleep deep and broad.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, and thank you everybody in the chat too,
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 3: especially with the questions and some of the stuff in there.
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 3: And thank you for the UH for the two dollars
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 3: super chat. I appreciate that. And until the next one,
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 3: everybody be well. Later